Refresh fever

[JaydedOne]

It's absolutely crazy how often I'm refreshing the forums page, looking for the latest tidbit on the game. Y'all are driving me crazy.

I don't suppose there's any chance we can get a portion of Bruce's manual or some other form of tide-me-over from IW/Shrapnel prior to launch? This is a killer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Tim Brooks]

No, we can't give you a portion of the manual, but I will let you know that we have just given the formatted version back to Bruce for some addditons and proofing. Right now, the page count is 295! That is with TWO hundred and nintey-five.

[Nerfix]

Oooh, neat. That manual is bigger than some books. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[sunray_be]

Tim Brooks said:
Right now, the page count is 295!



Could you please LMK if the full 'tables of units & equipments' are included in the manual for evry nations ? I'm preparing to update the excel unitattributes file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Cheers

[DominionsFan]

Tim Brooks said:
No, we can't give you a portion of the manual, but I will let you know that we have just given the formatted version back to Bruce for some addditons and proofing. Right now, the page count is 295! That is with TWO hundred and nintey-five.



wow! Now this will be the king of the manuals probably. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Kristoffer O]

> Could you please LMK if the full 'tables of units & equipments' are included in the manual for evry nations ? I'm preparing to update the excel unitattributes file

All summonable units have their stats listed in the manual, but not equipment and regular recruitable units. That would take many additional pages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So you'll need to update your lists and make lists for about 60 nations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

> wow! Now this will be the king of the manuals probably

Actually, yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I'm very impressed by Bruce's work and I'm very happy that he did the manual and not us or someone else. Compared to the Dom2 manual it is a MAJOR improvement IMHO. I'm almost willing to say I would buy the game for the manual itself, but I might be biased http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DominionsFan]

Kristoffer O said:
> wow! Now this will be the king of the manuals probably

Actually, yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I'm very impressed by Bruce's work and I'm very happy that he did the manual and not us or someone else. Compared to the Dom2 manual it is a MAJOR improvement IMHO. I'm almost willing to say I would buy the game for the manual itself, but I might be biased http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



IMHO the Doms 2. manual was very good also. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Caduceus]

Stupid question - is the manual bound or spiral bound?

[EDIT] And I am refreshing the forums page excessively myself.

[Gandalf Parker]

You people dont have auto-refresh capability?

Or setup Linux to do a GET of the page and then diff it mailing you the results if !0

Hmmm there is an autocheck and mail thing like that in Windows also but I forget how to do it. I could track it sinde I have the Illwinter page on autoreport by the windows method

Gandalf Parker

[JaydedOne]

Oh, the preaching's already taking place. I'm just looking forward to getting the full game and having some time to digest it so that I can drop a review over at GameFAQs the way I did for DomII. I'd love to see the FAQ community there pick up for Dom3 the way it never did for DomII, given that GameFAQs is a great gateway to a larger audience. Hopefully some of us can put a few strategy text files up there after release and get some additional momentum going for the game. After all, more players = more games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Caduceus]

JaydedOne said:
After all, more players = more games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



More support for Illwinter/Shrapnel = more updates/patches = better games = more players = more games!!

Ah, the circle of life. It brings a tear to one's eye.

[ioticus]

Tim Brooks said:
No, we can't give you a portion of the manual, but I will let you know that we have just given the formatted version back to Bruce for some addditons and proofing. Right now, the page count is 295! That is with TWO hundred and nintey-five.



That's awesome, because your original estimate was about 220 pages. I told Bruce I was looking forward to his manual almost as much as the game itself!

[Kristoffer O]

> I told Bruce I was looking forward to his manual almost as much as the game itself!

You should be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Endoperez]

Kristoffer O said:
> I told Bruce I was looking forward to his manual almost as much as the game itself!

You should be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I am.

[Tim Brooks]

Stupid question - is the manual bound or spiral bound?



Not a stupid question at all. We are, and have been, looking at the options with regard to binding. I know we haven't decided for sure, but that decision has to be made next week.

[Caduceus]

Given my druthers (and roughly equal cost) I would request spiral bound as you can leave it open without stacking beer bottles on the corner-edges.

As we all know, beer bottles must be at least half full to keep a manual open and therefore a continual supply must be at hand. When they get below that critical point, a newly-opened beer bottle must replace the now less-than-half -full bottle.

Beer bottles sweat, especially near a computer that has been running for four or five days straight, which can ruin a good bound manual.

Spiral bound is the way.

[Ballbarian]

I must agree with Caduceus's observations and therefore second his endorsement of spiral bound.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think spiral works well for computer users. I understand that there are people who actually hold books open with their hands to read them. I really just cant picture myself doing that.

[Sindai]

Please please please spiral bound. It is so much nicer than regular binding. Lays open by itself, more resistant to wear, etc.

[PhilD]

How many pages was the Dom2 manual? My copy is still reasonably fine. However, I think this one looks to be much larger, and presumably contains much more reference material - which means heavier use, which means the type of binding on the Dom2 manual wouldn't last long. The case for spiral bound looks stronger and stronger.

AND, it might make it easier to justify the rather high price tag to potential buyers (don't look at me, I have it on preorder). A quality manual, both in content and physical presentation, is a real nice thing - and rather rare these days.

[Endoperez]

134 pages. I have used it lot more during the summer, as I always had to check what spells existed in Dom2 and what did they need, and my Dom2 manual suffered from it. It is slowly coming apart. It still holds together, but I'll have to re-glue about 50 pages back to it before long. They are going to come apart soon.

[Nerfix]

Yeah, spiral bound would be nice.

[Agrajag]

Usually I dislike spiral bounding, because it is uncool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
But in this case I have to agree, with the projected excessive use of the manual, it would be a good idea to improve its survivability. (By having it spiral bound)

[Caduceus]

If it really bothers folks, we can whip together a Photoshop slip cover with the name on the side to cover the spiral binding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

That would be fun. One for each nation and each pretender. I want one for Pangaea and for "Lord of the Hunt"

[Morkilus]

I'm thinking a choice between trollskin and hoburgskin would be nice.

[Agrajag]

Or maybe it should be bound in a Mithril case, possibly studded with Admantium and menacing with spikes of Steel, encrusted with rubies and with craftsmanship of the highest quality http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[BigJMoney]

Actually, my Dom2 manual is on the verge of falling apart, so I definitely prefer spiral bound. I'm glad this is being considered.

=$= Big J Money =$=

[Endoperez]

Agrajag said:
Or maybe it should be bound in a Mithril case, possibly studded with Admantium and menacing with spikes of Steel, encrusted with rubies and with craftsmanship of the highest quality http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



Hey! Not fair! Only Quantum could afford one, and he would claim all of them just because he's Legendary, and then he would forget one outside and it would be stolen, and then Mindi would go berserk and beat all of us!


(P.S. This is in reference to Dwarf Fortress. Mindi (probably) isn't able to kill all of us in real life, and won't (probably) have a reason to do so. However, if you notice a suspicious amount ground turning red on Google Earth, you'd better live near a dam, or have a moat of lava dug around your lawn.)

[Oversway]

Thats odd. My dom2 manual is in good shape. I always used the various pdf/spreadsheet/etc. documents that the community put together. I expect I will do the same in dom3.

[JaydedOne]

I was just looking at the dom2 spreadsheets/pdfs a second ago. I can hardly wait for the new sets to be compiled, but I think the first few months of discovery on the boards are going to be great.

And yes, my manual is also in fine shape. To me, it was a pretty solid binding job.

[PDF]

Hmm, that's pure marketing gizmo usually, but here I'd really like a Dom3 Pantokrator Edition http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif , with a troll-leather bound manual, a handful of gems, and if possible a blonde blood slave ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fate]

If you do do a sprial binding, please make it a BIG spiral. I just get soo annoyed when the pages get stuck on each other. I also like ring bindings, because you can flip the pages all the way around (it helps with the symmetry of the whole thing) but that is just an absurd idea, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif .

[Agrajag]

Fate said:
If you do do a sprial binding, please make it a BIG spiral. I just get soo annoyed when the pages get stuck on each other. I also like ring bindings, because you can flip the pages all the way around (it helps with the symmetry of the whole thing) but that is just an absurd idea, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif .


I second that.

[Nerfix]

Conlusion: The manual ougt to be in spiral binding.

[Tim Brooks]

If you do do a sprial binding, please make it a BIG spiral. I just get soo annoyed when the pages get stuck on each other.



Well, if we do spiral binding, it will be small. The large binding is just too bulky (not to mention expensive in and of itself) to keep shipping costs low.

So would you rather have a small spiral or book binding?

[PashaDawg]

If the manual will be the approximate height and width of the Dom2 manual, but twice as long, then it would be very nice to have a spiral binding.

If that is not economical, then perhaps you could make sure that the margin (on the binding side) is wide enough so that folks who really want a spiral can take the book to a kinko's or other copy shop, where they can chop off the book binding and install a spiral binding.

Pasha

[Nerfix]

PashaDawg said:
If the manual will be the approximate height and width of the Dom2 manual, but twice as long, then it would be very nice to have a spiral binding.

Pasha

Agreed.

[Meglobob]

Tim Brooks said:
No, we can't give you a portion of the manual, but I will let you know that we have just given the formatted version back to Bruce for some addditons and proofing. Right now, the page count is 295! That is with TWO hundred and nintey-five.



That's some night time reading. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Just done a quick check on my pc games collection and I think the biggest manual ever medal goes to Dominions 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The closet one near it I have is civilizations IV at 224 pages.

This is one of the 2 things about Dominions that attracted me to the game, depth and lots of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah the manual is going to be great but you know it will still only give you a small taste of the game. To do a "tips and strategy guide" like companies such as Prima do, would take a set of encyclopedias. One book for every nation, and more books for some of the multination strategies.
(Hey Richard, I want a devil smiley to use here)

[JaydedOne]

Personally, I'd be thrilled if people put together FAQs on the various nations with strategy ideas and then posted them out on gameFAQs and what-not. The more visibility and access we offer the game, the better it'll be for everyone involved.

[Agrajag]

Tim Brooks said:

If you do do a sprial binding, please make it a BIG spiral. I just get soo annoyed when the pages get stuck on each other.



Well, if we do spiral binding, it will be small. The large binding is just too bulky (not to mention expensive in and of itself) to keep shipping costs low.

So would you rather have a small spiral or book binding?


If that's the case then I think a regular book binding would probably be better.
I know I have more than one notebook where almost every other page is torn because of the pages getting stuck when you turn them.

So yeah, "normal binding" and we'll treat the book nicely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (IMO, obviously http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

[Caduceus]

I'm still in favor of spiral binding, my reason(s) given above.

Neverwinter Nights, Civilization, etc. have spiral binding and it seems to work just fine. It is going to be used as a reference, right?

[Cainehill]

I'm all for spiral binding myself, even if it's the tiny spiral coil. My Dom2 manual fell apart _long_ ago, and the spiral would've helped a lot.

Or, if the regular book binding is cheaper, maybe include the manual's PDF file so people could print it for themselves, and refer to it on the computer without tearing up the book itself.

[PhilD]

Cainehill said:

I'm all for spiral binding myself, even if it's the tiny spiral coil. My Dom2 manual fell apart _long_ ago, and the spiral would've helped a lot.




Fully agree on this one.



Or, if the regular book binding is cheaper, maybe include the manual's PDF file so people could print it for themselves, and refer to it on the computer without tearing up the book itself.



Err, if the game's gone gold, it's probably too late to include anything more on the CD if it's not there. Now, maybe Shrapnel can release the PDF of the manual for download...

[Nerfix]

Yes for spiral bindings.

[Caduceus]

Well, whatever Tim and the group decide...I'm in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Endoperez]

Gandalf Parker said:
Yeah the manual is going to be great but you know it will still only give you a small taste of the game. To do a "tips and strategy guide" like companies such as Prima do, would take a set of encyclopedias. One book for every nation, and more books for some of the multination strategies.
(Hey Richard, I want a devil smiley to use here)



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

They don't grin, though. That might make them devil meanies instead of smileys.