What is really new?

[jowe01]

Just stumbled over the anouncement that Dom 3 is approaching release. Then read the features list and looked at the screenshots. Big disappointment.

What is really new in Dom 3 compared to Dom 2? The graphics seem to be largely unchanged (at least they are as horrible as in Dom 2). Ok, I also do not care too much for graphics. So what are the revolutonary changes in game mechanics? Frankly, I cannot find them. Everything is just Dom 2 with some minor improvements like you would expect from a bonus patch or at best from an extension. Is there anything really important which is truly new?

[Endoperez]

jowe01 said:
Just stumbled over the anouncement that Dom 3 is approaching release. Then read the features list and looked at the screenshots. Big disappointment.

What is really new in Dom 3 compared to Dom 2? The graphics seem to be largely unchanged (at least they are as horrible as in Dom 2). Ok, I also do not care too much for graphics. So what are the revolutonary changes in game mechanics? Frankly, I cannot find them. Everything is just Dom 2 with some minor improvements like you would expect from a bonus patch or at best from an extension. Is there anything really important which is truly new?



This is a sequel. It is a sequel I enjoy playing much, much more. There are many new nations. There are many new ideas. Balance has been changed considerably. It's harder to rely only on summons, and almost all of the buff spells have been changed in one way or another (e.g. Breath of Winter doesn't kill, Fire Shield is weaker and higher in the research level, all protection-increasing spells result in increased vulnerability against one of the elements, or poison), there are now nation-spesific spells that have to be researched so that Jotun player can't cast Illwinter on turn 7, and it gives many other nations access to very cool national spells.

I can't give you one big chance. I can tell you of a game that is much better than its prequel.

[quantum_mechani]

jowe01 said:
Just stumbled over the anouncement that Dom 3 is approaching release. Then read the features list and looked at the screenshots. Big disappointment.

What is really new in Dom 3 compared to Dom 2? The graphics seem to be largely unchanged (at least they are as horrible as in Dom 2). Ok, I also do not care too much for graphics. So what are the revolutonary changes in game mechanics? Frankly, I cannot find them. Everything is just Dom 2 with some minor improvements like you would expect from a bonus patch or at best from an extension. Is there anything really important which is truly new?

It's true, the basic mechanics and engine are largely unchanged.

That doesn't mean there isn't a ton of things for dominions players to look forward to. Having played dom3, and going back for an occasional dom2 game, you really feel the difference. It's a lot of little things added together that make it a new game, not one big thing you can point to (personally, I would have been disappointed if they had opted to spend much time revamping the graphics engine instead).

If I was to point to the most 'stand out' new changes, I think it would have to be the new random system, the gold/resource/fort changes, and concept of eras. Each of these changes the way the game is played quite dramatically. The first opens up new ways for each nation to (and each type of mage) to be more unique. The second makes for larger battles, and gives lighter troops a real niche. And the last one gives the whole game a great sense of history, each age has a story and a unique feel, and add to dominions already epic feeling.

These aren't the only things, there are other new features and details too numerous to mentions (the age system, reworked routing to make more sense, gods can awaken, random maps, darkvision, magic site modding, rebalance of summons, armor spells give vulnerabilities, you can now reduce province defense on the turn you buy it, astral horrors much more unique and deadly, when you create a game it now takes your there automatically rather than back to the main screen, satyrs causing unrest, hordes of new units, spells, nations and items, blood hunting difficulty linked to magic site frequency, death blessing reworked, more tool-tips/transparency in the interface, etc.).

If you are looking for something that looks and plays radically different from dom2, you won't find it. Myself, I'm just glad they kept what made dom2 so great, and made it better.

[Manuk]

Well, if you play SP, just that the AI builds castles will get them attack you with different armies for each nation instead of everyone attacking you with the same crap (slingers, militia, etc).
It was odd that ashen empire attacks you with tons of light units and that an army of vanheim had only a very few national units (skin shifters, hirdman).
I hope that now they bless their units or design a god to have fire 9 instead of 8, or instead of lvl 3 lvl 4.

[Nerfix]

The Awakening mechaning seems to have changed the game dynamics quite a bit too.

[Morkilus]

Improved AI is a huge deal for me. The graphics were improved, by the way. If you were looking for something like Warcraft 2 -> Warcraft 3, well, you're not dealing with Blizzard here.

So OP: I'm curious, besides graphics, what were you looking for in improvements?

[DominionsFan]

jowe01 said:
Just stumbled over the anouncement that Dom 3 is approaching release. Then read the features list and looked at the screenshots. Big disappointment.

What is really new in Dom 3 compared to Dom 2? The graphics seem to be largely unchanged (at least they are as horrible as in Dom 2). Ok, I also do not care too much for graphics. So what are the revolutonary changes in game mechanics? Frankly, I cannot find them. Everything is just Dom 2 with some minor improvements like you would expect from a bonus patch or at best from an extension. Is there anything really important which is truly new?



More units, more spells, more nations, more themes, more items, better AI, and improved modding ability. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[okiN]

Morkilus said:you're not dealing with Blizzard here.


Damn good thing, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Agrajag]

okiN said:

Morkilus said:you're not dealing with Blizzard here.


Damn good thing, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


I second that

[Nerfix]

Why the Blizzard dislike? They've made quality games if you ask me.

[Gandalf Parker]

I agree with others. I dont think it was meant to be somekind of an etirely NEW game. Its Dominions 2 with enough improvements to be Dominions 3.

I think that mainly we are entering a new era (oops, a pun since Dom3 introduces eras) in the games development. When Dom1 and Dom2 came out there were many player suggested improvements. And they got put in on a regular basis. Then each of them started developing a wishlist full of items which couldnt be put in without large rewrites to the way the game did things. When Johan got frustrated at getting more "cant do" than "can do" suggestions, he seems to start a new version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif So even though there might not be a visible difference to you, I see it as a step that was needed so we could go forward. And I have no problem paying full-game price for that work.

On the other hand, Im thrilled with additions for solo play. Better AIs, more AI settings, larger maps, more random events, randomly generated maps.

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Better solo game might just make it worth my while. Anyone tried it yet?

[Nerfix]

Esben Mose Hansen said:
Better solo game might just make it worth my while. Anyone tried it yet?

Betas have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Graeme Dice]

Nerfix said:
Why the Blizzard dislike? They've made quality games if you ask me.



They've made many quality games. They've also entered the Dikumud style MMO market, which is guaranteed to leave a large proportion of their customers who quit playing WoW hating them.

[Morkilus]

Of course Blizzard makes great games. I still have Diablo 2 installed for when my brain is too fried to play anything else. However, they wouldn't touch something like Dominions with a 10-foot Ethereal Pike, and if they did, it would... well... not be Dominions. What do you mean by DikuMUD? I thought that's what WoW was; is something new coming up?

@EMH: Have you checked out the AAR's yet?

[Nerfix]

True true.

Also, 10-foot Ethereal Pike, haha, shouldn't that be 10-foot Robopike? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[okiN]

Morkilus said:
Of course Blizzard makes great games. I still have Diablo 2 installed for when my brain is too fried to play anything else. However, they wouldn't touch something like Dominions with a 10-foot Ethereal Pike, and if they did, it would... well... not be Dominions.


That pretty much sums it up. Also, they cancelled Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif

[Graeme Dice]

Morkilus said:
What do you mean by DikuMUD? I thought that's what WoW was; is something new coming up?



No, WoW is what I'm referring to.

[Boron]

Morkilus said:
Improved AI is a huge deal for me. The graphics were improved, by the way. If you were looking for something like Warcraft 2 -> Warcraft 3, well, you're not dealing with Blizzard here.

So OP: I'm curious, besides graphics, what were you looking for in improvements?


Between warcraft 2 and 3 are at least 5 years.
And imho blizzard was never famous for their graphics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
The graphics of all their games were only average.

[PhilD]

Let's face it - more units, more spells, more whatever, is NOT what makes me await Dom3. I mean, obviously Dom2 already had many more than I ever used.

Dom2 was a great game that I played for almost 2 years - one year almost to the exclusion of all other games. That was excellent value for what I (OK, not I, my girlfriend) paid for it, and Dom3 will freshen it a bit, renew my interest, and maybe bring in some new players more likely to be close to my own (bad) level. IMHO, that's well worth the price that I (OK, not I, my girlfriend again - it's not my fault if they release close to my birthday!) paid for the new game.

Plus, it means supporting an independent publisher and developer, and that's also a good thing in my book (but then, I can perfectly understand if some people want value for their money - which I think they will with Dom3, but if you're only a solo player, are happy with Dom2, and tight on the money, then maybe you should stick to Dom2).

[PhilD]

Boron said:
Between warcraft 2 and 3 are at least 5 years.
And imho blizzard was never famous for their graphics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
The graphics of all their games were only average.



Well, I find I liked the graphics of Warcraft 2 (and, even more, Starcraft) much better than Warcraft 3. 3D in strategy, be it RT like Blizzard does or TB a la HoMM, doesn't make it for me (but then, when it's all I can get, I still buy the games from time to time - a little eye candy and light solo game doesn't hurt when I'm bored).

[NTJedi]

Nerfix said:
Why the Blizzard dislike? They've made quality games if you ask me.



Blizzard has made some good games, but they're a little slow on being an effective business. The original Diablo was a smashing world-wide success yet look at how long they took to develop the sequel. Just stupid management to ignore a gold-mine for so long.
Also even tho I was a big fan of Warcraft_2 I never purchased Warcraft_3 because the company was purely focused on graphics and the maps were only 96X96 at maximum.(way too small)

[Nerfix]

Well, Warcraft 3 is fundamentaly pretty different from WC2. Much faster paced. Might have been an intentional move you know.

[NTJedi]

jowe01 said:
Just stumbled over the anouncement that Dom 3 is approaching release. Then read the features list and looked at the screenshots. Big disappointment.




Before you decide on whether or not the game is any good... play the free demo first. The demo should be arriving sometime during October.


jowe01 said:
What is really new in Dom 3 compared to Dom 2? The graphics seem to be largely unchanged (at least they are as horrible as in Dom 2). Ok, I also do not care too much for graphics. So what are the revolutonary changes in game mechanics? Frankly, I cannot find them. Everything is just Dom 2 with some minor improvements like you would expect from a bonus patch or at best from an extension. Is there anything really important which is truly new?



DominionsFan gave a great quick answer.
More units, more spells, more nations, more themes, more items, better AI, and improved modding ability.
PLUS Random_Map_Generator, maps can now have 1500 provinces, and more game options

Play a few games on the free demo and then decide if it's worth the money.

[Meglobob]

Anyone who has not got Dom2 but really likes fantasy 4xstrategy games (like me) then Dom3 is a no brainer. Get in at the beginning and have maxium fun.

I loved Diablo, especially 2, still play it, wicked game.

Never played Warcraft, just one of those games that passed me by.

[Nerfix]

The two first Warcraft games were really boringly...sÿmmetric. I'd like to love the 3rd game of the series but it's too fast for my tastes. I like the concepts there though.

[BigJMoney]

In your OP, you mention that some of these things might have been added to DomII in a patch, but that's a mistake. One of the reasons they are creating a new version is precisely because some of these things cannot be patched into Dominions 2. They've actually rewritten a lot of stuff and developed new things. For example, I bet if they could have patched in the AI's ability to use build castles, they would have.

=$= Big J Money =$=

[Gandalf Parker]

@EBH:
Im thinking that my solo-player view and linux server focus are what landed me in the beta-group. Dom2 disapoointed me abit in solo-play (just a little) but I understood that it was primarily a multiplayer game. Solo play capability felt like it was a cheap tutorial that you were meant to move out of.

But Dom3 has definetly made large strides to be both MP and SP. Im very happy. By the way, insane Gandalf got test games cranked up to 3000x3000 pixel and 1500 province maps. And 79 players (well the test group wasnt that large, it was padded with AIs). Obviously the game isnt going to do that for most players. They have to select an era and everyone play one of the offered races within that era. But with map and mod commands you can force every nation slot to play MUHAHAHAahahahhaha *evil insane laugh*

[DominionsFan]

I respect Blizzard. They've made a huge company from a very small one. WoW is the most popular MMORPG. Millions are playing it. Also they are upgrading their games very well. I stopped playing with WoW, but just because I wouldn't have enough time for it anymore. Real life and MMORPGs...well I prefer real life. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[jowe01]

Thanks for all the answers. Do not get me wromg, I think DOM2 was a great game, hence DOM3, which I (and most of the respondents here)regard as mainly being "more of the same" will be a great game, too.

OTOH, while I like to get more of what I loved in DOM2, is this really the way to make a new game nearly 3 years after the last installment was published? I still find that more suitable to a service patch or an extension. But that is just my opinion. I am definitely going to give the demo a try.

[danm]

Well, I have gotten more gameplay and enjoyment out of the Dom2 demo than I did out of HOMM5.

So I'll be ordering 3 as soon as there is a smidge of sunlight in the bank account to fit it in.

Really, if you spread the the money you spent for 2 across all the hours you enjoyed it, don't you think you kinda owe an update payment ;-)

if you think of it as buying a few of pitchers of beer for a couple of guys that have managed to completely ruin your life for months at a time, then maybe it won't seem so bad.

[Endoperez]

jowe01 said:
Thanks for all the answers. Do not get me wromg, I think DOM2 was a great game, hence DOM3, which I (and most of the respondents here)regard as mainly being "more of the same" will be a great game, too.

OTOH, while I like to get more of what I loved in DOM2, is this really the way to make a new game nearly 3 years after the last installment was published? I still find that more suitable to a service patch or an extension. But that is just my opinion. I am definitely going to give the demo a try.



That's a very healthy attitude. Just give this thread a bump and your opinion once you've tried the demo, been addicted and bought the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[st.patrik]

Dom II was a great step beyond DomPPP, but my take is that Dom 3 is the perfection of the changes that Dom II initiated.

I loaded up Dom II today. I noticed immediately that some of the commands that I have grown used to in Dom 3 weren't there: things like being able to resize the commanders bar, or hide the commands to the right-hand side, etc. I noticed the lack of the information-rich interface that I have grown used to: in Dom 3 I can see gem amounts, magical items, province descriptions, etc. in the main view. I recalled some of the non-particle-ized spell effects (even things like poison) which looked pretty silly in Dom II. Dom II was a great step forward, but a lot of the changes weren't complete - the game creation process for example was in some ways a step back from DomPPP. In Dom 3 the changes are pretty much complete, as well as a whole lot of stuff added (such as the aging system, national spells, the different eras)

In other words, I think it's a better, more complete game than Dom II, even though it is similar in content and style. Much more than a service patch, since most aspects of the game have been re-examined and thoughtfully changed. See below for a short list off the top of my head for new things that I'm particularly grateful are included:

• pretender creation independant of game creation (how bitterly I wished I had this in Dom II!)
• random opponents in game creation
• several different AI tactics, as well as AI strengths
• different eras (each with different emphases)
• total gems available listed in main screen
• commanders' icons are resizeable, and show gems + magical items equipped, as well as troops being commanded
• national summons!
• new spells/items/summons designed to deal with demons (hate those demons!)
• damage done in combat shown
• eradication of most all the old and nasty spell graphics (Slime, Poison)
• new battlefields, depending on terrain
• terrain survival actually makes something of a difference (at least for swamp survival - hopefully we can convince the devs to add more!)
• new independant troops (toad, horse, lion, bear, wolf, deer tribes)
• new fortress types
• new option of awakening, making it more viable to create a great bless strategy.
• bless effects shown when creating a pretender
• ability to get out of windows (such a spell lists) without scrolling to the bottom
• shift-click to recruit multiple units at once
• in SP, clicking 'end turn' automatically takes you to the next turn
• less friendly fire (IMHO)

[alexti]

jowe01 said:
Thanks for all the answers. Do not get me wromg, I think DOM2 was a great game, hence DOM3, which I (and most of the respondents here)regard as mainly being "more of the same" will be a great game, too.

OTOH, while I like to get more of what I loved in DOM2, is this really the way to make a new game nearly 3 years after the last installment was published? I still find that more suitable to a service patch or an extension. But that is just my opinion. I am definitely going to give the demo a try.


I'm not sure what concept of "Game N+1" (sequel) you have. I find that these kind of changes (various improvements, some new stuff, some changes in mechanics while retaining the core gameplay) fit my idea of a sequel. I would imagine if Illwinter made some really new game they would call it somehow differently (not "Dominions").

In any case, what difference would it make whether it is called sequel, service patch or expansion?

[DominionsFan]

alexti said:

jowe01 said:
Thanks for all the answers. Do not get me wromg, I think DOM2 was a great game, hence DOM3, which I (and most of the respondents here)regard as mainly being "more of the same" will be a great game, too.

OTOH, while I like to get more of what I loved in DOM2, is this really the way to make a new game nearly 3 years after the last installment was published? I still find that more suitable to a service patch or an extension. But that is just my opinion. I am definitely going to give the demo a try.


I'm not sure what concept of "Game N+1" (sequel) you have. I find that these kind of changes (various improvements, some new stuff, some changes in mechanics while retaining the core gameplay) fit my idea of a sequel. I would imagine if Illwinter made some really new game they would call it somehow differently (not "Dominions").

In any case, what difference would it make whether it is called sequel, service patch or expansion?



I agree with alexti. There will be many new additions in Dominions 3. The AI will be upgraded, to the SP fans can be happy also. Lot of new units, spells etc. The game will be also easier for new players. Less micromanagement, hella powerful modding commands [basically you can almost change everything what you want]...and I could continue. This is definitely not just an "expansion".

[Cainehill]

alexti said:

jowe01 said:
Thanks for all the answers. Do not get me wromg, I think DOM2 was a great game, hence DOM3, which I (and most of the respondents here)regard as mainly being "more of the same" will be a great game, too.

OTOH, while I like to get more of what I loved in DOM2, is this really the way to make a new game nearly 3 years after the last installment was published? I still find that more suitable to a service patch or an extension. But that is just my opinion. I am definitely going to give the demo a try.


I'm not sure what concept of "Game N+1" (sequel) you have. I find that these kind of changes (various improvements, some new stuff, some changes in mechanics while retaining the core gameplay) fit my idea of a sequel. I would imagine if Illwinter made some really new game they would call it somehow differently (not "Dominions").



Yeah - looking at "mass market", the Disciples games, Kohan series, Ages of Wizards, etc, (even Diablo & Diablo 2) are pretty much exactly that - more of the the things found in the earlier games, sometimes a little bit better, sometimes not.

[Gandalf Parker]

Sequels used to be continuations of the storyline. They didnt have to change anything. Like the old bard tale games. Sure they kept up with graphic card changes and such but not much else. A sequel was more of the same game.

Any of them that havent done that have tended to tick me off. I dont WANT to buy a sequel which is so changed that its a completely different game. If you are going to do that then give it a new name. Dont cash in on the old name.

[JaydedOne]

*smile* I think this thread shows there are a variety of expectations as to what a sequel should be. My thoughts on the matter are pretty simple -- you read the AARs, the Screenies thread, and a few other info sources and you see if they get you excited about the product. If they do, you buy. If not, don't.

Why get worked up over the semantic question of what a "sequel" is?

[Cainehill]

Gandalf Parker said:
Any of them that havent done that have tended to tick me off. I dont WANT to buy a sequel which is so changed that its a completely different game. If you are going to do that then give it a new name. Dont cash in on the old name.



Yeah - like with the "sequels" to Master of Orion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Daynarr]

I was burned out on Dom2. Played it so long that I simply couldn't anymore. Then when I started playing Dom3 I got re-addicted. No burnout from Dom2 at all. I guess that should mean that Dom3 is different (and better) enough then Dom2 to be classified as sequel. It's not just more of the same, many things changed in gameplay and the feel of the game.

[DominionsFan]

Daynarr said:
I was burned out on Dom2. Played it so long that I simply couldn't anymore. Then when I started playing Dom3 I got re-addicted. No burnout from Dom2 at all. I guess that should mean that Dom3 is different (and better) enough then Dom2 to be classified as sequel. It's not just more of the same, many things changed in gameplay and the feel of the game.



Well in that case, there is the possibility that you will 'burn out' after a period regarding Doms 3. also. I mean I've played a lot as well with the game, and I never burned out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Nerfix]

Daynarr said:
I was burned out on Dom2. Played it so long that I simply couldn't anymore. Then when I started playing Dom3 I got re-addicted. No burnout from Dom2 at all. I guess that should mean that Dom3 is different (and better) enough then Dom2 to be classified as sequel. It's not just more of the same, many things changed in gameplay and the feel of the game.

Kinda same happened with me. I had a massive Dom 1 to Dom 2 spree and then at one point I just got burned out. I was stuck in doing same things with same nations and it didn't feel fun anymore. I also had some issues with my life back then, a lot of them and they ate up my attention.

To be honest I have never really gotten so much into Dominions again, propably because I am waiting for Dom 3 and I don't want to be burned out again. I love the series to death but I'm afraid I'd just get bored again.

[Daynarr]

You didnt play as long as me. I was in Dom2 beta so I started earlier. It took me long time to get that burnout feeling. Actually I was playing it like a madman (or like an addict) most of that time and I almost didn't touch any other game.

[JaydedOne]

I think what burned me out on Dominions2 were the limited options when it came to the endgame as well as a few of the more frustrating exploits. The mods which began to correct the latter didn't come out until I'd already lost interest.

So Dom3 is definitely cause for excitement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DominionsFan]

Daynarr said:
You didnt play as long as me. I was in Dom2 beta so I started earlier. It took me long time to get that burnout feeling. Actually I was playing it like a madman (or like an addict) most of that time and I almost didn't touch any other game.




Yeah, I guess. However imho the real power in Dominions is the MP. You and your boddies are getting together at a given day for a TCP/IP match. Its still hella addictive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Hm usually we play 1-3 TCP/IP games / week still. We've played every day like 1 year ago.

[Endoperez]

DominionsFan said:
Yeah, I guess. However imho the real power in Dominions is the MP. You and your boddies are getting together at a given day for a TCP/IP match. Its still hella addictive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Hm usually we play 1-3 TCP/IP games / week still. We've played every day like 1 year ago.



I've got pretty much the same experience as Nerfix: I like the game, but at some point, I know the game so well I don't have any reason to play through all the options again. As you might've seen from my posts, I haven't tried most of the nations, spell or strategies in Dom3. Having a group of people nearby who know and play the game would be wonderful. I'll have to try borrowing the manual to some of my friends; that could work.

[DominionsFan]

Endoperez said:

DominionsFan said:
Yeah, I guess. However imho the real power in Dominions is the MP. You and your boddies are getting together at a given day for a TCP/IP match. Its still hella addictive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Hm usually we play 1-3 TCP/IP games / week still. We've played every day like 1 year ago.



I've got pretty much the same experience as Nerfix: I like the game, but at some point, I know the game so well I don't have any reason to play through all the options again. As you might've seen from my posts, I haven't tried most of the nations, spell or strategies in Dom3. Having a group of people nearby who know and play the game would be wonderful. I'll have to try borrowing the manual to some of my friends; that could work.



Yeah Endo, playing with people who you know in real life is the best MP experience. However I hope that I can play TCP/IP games with you and with the other people from this forum. I will spare some time for it. I've talked to the Dominion fans here, they also like the idea to play with/against people from other countries. Hopefully we can set up some games on sundays at least for the European players. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Endoperez]

DominionsFan said:Yeah Endo, playing with people who you know in real life is the best MP experience. However I hope that I can play TCP/IP games with you and with the other people from this forum. I will spare some time for it. I've talked to the Dominion fans here, they also like the idea to play with/against people from other countries. Hopefully we can set up some games on sundays at least for the European players. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif



That'd be nice. My only experience thus far is one blitz against Quantum. It lasted most of the night and ended with my army on his capital and his in mine. I had this most wonderful SC who conquered few provinces, attacked quantum and died, was recalled, attacked Quantum and died, etc.

[DominionsFan]

Endoperez said:

DominionsFan said:Yeah Endo, playing with people who you know in real life is the best MP experience. However I hope that I can play TCP/IP games with you and with the other people from this forum. I will spare some time for it. I've talked to the Dominion fans here, they also like the idea to play with/against people from other countries. Hopefully we can set up some games on sundays at least for the European players. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif



That'd be nice. My only experience thus far is one blitz against Quantum. It lasted most of the night and ended with my army on his capital and his in mine. I had this most wonderful SC who conquered few provinces, attacked quantum and died, was recalled, attacked Quantum and died, etc.




Hehe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
Well guess what. My longest Doms 2. TCP/IP game was more then 10 hours long. 8 players on a large map. It was insane. The funny thing is that 3 players were alive by then from the 8, and we just couldnt kill eachother, so we've decided that the game was won by 3 people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Well that was a crazy game, 8 player TCP/IPs are usually ~4 hours long for us.

[BigJMoney]

It sounds like it was ~4 hours long.... for the losers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

That's one good thing about TBS games. If it starts to drag on or lose its excitement just let yourself get dominated, leave early, and go join another game.

=$=

[AAshbery76]

What is the single player experience? Is there any diplomacy,trade,Alliances,etc.From reading the AAR's it just seems a game of declare war on everybody,and not a true 4X game like SEIV,MOM,etc.

[DominionsFan]

AAshbery76 said:
What is the single player experience? Is there any diplomacy,trade,Alliances,etc.From reading the AAR's it just seems a game of declare war on everybody,and not a true 4X game like SEIV,MOM,etc.



Singeplayer AI will be much better in Doms 3. Impossible AIs will give you a hard time to win, especially on larger maps. There isn't any diplo functions in Doms 3., however you can set up alliances before the game quite easily. [some very easy modding commands]. That way you can make excellent scenarios.
I think its not a bad thing, that we won't have diplo AI in Dominions 3. I mean take a look at Galciv2. The diplo AI is absolutely exploitable, just like any other diplo AI. [You send money, money and more money and voila they will like you.]

[Twan]

Like in dom2 there will be no diplomacy in SP, it's true. Dominions is more a wargame than most "true" 4X.

But the question here is "what is really new ?" not "what is not new ?".
Of course hundreds of player's expected features won't be in this game, like in any sequel of any game (since MoO 3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

[st.patrik]

AAshbery76 said:
What is the single player experience? Is there any diplomacy,trade,Alliances,etc.From reading the AAR's it just seems a game of declare war on everybody,and not a true 4X game like SEIV,MOM,etc.



well you are playing a god, and gods typically want to be worshipped by everyone, so it's hard to get away from the world-domination thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Endoperez]

st.patrik said:

AAshbery76 said:
What is the single player experience? Is there any diplomacy,trade,Alliances,etc.From reading the AAR's it just seems a game of declare war on everybody,and not a true 4X game like SEIV,MOM,etc.



well you are playing a god, and gods typically want to be worshipped by everyone, so it's hard to get away from the world-domination thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



In other words, there's no diplomacy, but we've gotten used to it. You can, too. The game is very enjoyable even as-is. Also, AI start on passive state, and only become aggressive when they notice that you are weak, or when you attack them. That must be the simplest form of diplomacy ever seen!

One other common explanation is the fact that it'd take too much of the developers' time, "and we all would rather have more content, wouldn't we?"

[NTJedi]

Endoperez said:
In other words, there's no diplomacy, but we've gotten used to it.



Well if a player is looking for a more challenging game that player can edit the .map file and setup multiple AI opponents as allies, and this permanent alliance lasts the whole game. Otherwise there's no real diplomacy within the game.
A very interesting idea would be if Illwinter was to add a very rare event where two or three AI opponents form a permanent alliance within a game.


Endoperez said:
One other common explanation is the fact that it'd take too much of the developers' time, "and we all would rather have more content, wouldn't we?"


Yes I agree... more content until the Illwinter company expands to 5 or more developers where one developer could focus on the diplomacy. A whole developer is to prevent gamers from finding exploits/weaknesses with the AI diplomacy.

[DominionsFan]

NTJedi said:
Yes I agree... more content until the Illwinter company expands to 5 or more developers where one developer could focus on the diplomacy. A whole developer is to prevent gamers from finding exploits/weaknesses with the AI diplomacy.




I don't think that there is a way to prevent human players to exploit a diplo AI.
The human player can always send gold/resources or whatever to the AI player to make the AI player happy, so the human player can form an alliance easily that way.
[This is absolutely true about Galciv2 for example, or Civ3-4]
This is what happening in all games. Game developers cannot exclude this mechanism. If there wouldn't be something like "sending gifts" the whole diplomacy system would be pointless, hence you couldn't improve the relations with the AI. Well maybe in some special way, like offering some of your troops to a specific AI player when it is at war with an other AI or something like that.

[NTJedi]

DominionsFan said:
I don't think that there is a way to prevent human players to exploit a diplo AI.
The human player can always send gold/resources or whatever to the AI player to raise the relations with him. This is what happening in all games. Game developers cannot exclude this mechanism. If there wouldn't be something like "sending gifts" the whole diplomacy system would be pointless, hence you couldn't improve the relations with the AI. Well maybe in some special way, like offering some of your troops to a specific AI player when it is at war with an other AI or something like that.



Well actually the developers only need to include a formula which evaluates the total value of the gift in comparison to the AI opponents total power/value/attitude. If the gift does not add a worthy percentage increase to the AIs kingdoms power/resources/value then the gift has no value or even possibly viewed as an insult for being so small. The higher the game difficulty the higher the percentage. For example if a small country consisting of 3 islands sent an ambassador to the Mexico and offered a basket of fruit as a gift... the ambassador probably wouldn't even make it past the government guards.

[Sindai]

I'm 100% sure several games already do that. GalCiv certainly does. Developers aren't stupid. If you can come up with a solution in the time it takes to write a forum post you can be sure they thought of it ages ago.

The real problem with diplomatic AI is that it is usually incapable of betrayal. If it is then you have the nontrivial task of making it smart enough to betray the player only when it's logical. If it's not done cleverly and communicated to the user it will only cause players to complain about the AI being "random" and "attacking for no reason."

I think Dominions does fine as a pure wargame. It's not impossible to rationalize diplomatic AI if you change the story just a bit, though. Instead of a single supreme throne the pretenders could just be agreeing to ascend as a pantheon.

[Twan]

Hum as AI diplomacy has always been exploitable in any game having diplomacy IMHO it's useless to waste the time of someone "to prevent players finding exploits with the AI diplomacy". So not the best excuse.
For me the question for Dominions is more : is the SP game so hard that the player needs help from the AIs ?
As strategic AI is far from perfection, a diplomatic system allowing the player to make peace agreements and other deals has not to be made as it would be one more handicap for the AIs.

Now if AIs still works like St Patrik said ("AI only become aggressive when they notice that you are weak, or when you attack them", a good resume of dom2 AI) I think there is a flaw in the "diplomatic part of the strategic AI" that may be easy to correct with good effects on the SP game : make AIs attack not only a weaker player but the strongest one. I think it's very simple to implement : if a pretender is by large first in charts all neighbours should attack him instead of staying passive waiting for their turn. No need to make an alliance system for that, just make all the AIs aggressive against the potential winner once a critical power level is reached (usually by the player).

[NTJedi]

Twan said:
Hum as AI diplomacy has always been exploitable in any game having diplomacy IMHO it's useless to waste the time of someone "to prevent players finding exploits with the AI diplomacy".



The reason exploits can be found is because the AI is not able to learn from its mistakes the same as a human opponent. Unfortunately this type of AI computer opponent won't be created within our lifetime.
At least if one developer is focused on creating diplomacy he can limit the exploits and improve the diplomacy with patches. My suggestion at least prevents the usual exploit of sending small gifts to keep the AI opponents happy.


Twan said:
Now if AIs still works like St Patrik said ("AI only become aggressive when they notice that you are weak, or when you attack them", a good resume of dom2 AI) I think there is a flaw in the "diplomatic part of the strategic AI" that may be easy to correct with good effects on the SP game : make AIs attack not only a weaker player but the strongest one. I think it's very simple to implement : if a pretender is by large first in charts all neighbours should attack him instead of staying passive waiting for their turn. No need to make an alliance system for that, just make all the AIs aggressive against the potential winner once a critical power level is reached (usually by the player).



I've covered all this in another topic... perhaps we'll see the improvement within a patch or within Dominions_4.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=427010&page=2&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


Sindai said:
I'm 100% sure several games already do that. GalCiv certainly does. Developers aren't stupid. If you can come up with a solution in the time it takes to write a forum post you can be sure they thought of it ages ago.



Developers are definitely not stupid... which is why we have poor AI opponents in our games. There's a few exceptions and these games are only average at best. Developers are thinking of their future careers and thus focus much of their time on graphics because it's easier to promote your career by illustrating what you can create with pretty graphics compared to some extensive AI formula. Firaxis has actually taken a good step forward in hiring someone who purely focuses on the artificial intelligence... so hopefully we'll see some better AI opponents in whatever next game is being developed.


Sindai said:
The real problem with diplomatic AI is that it is usually incapable of betrayal. If it is then you have the nontrivial task of making it smart enough to betray the player only when it's logical. If it's not done cleverly and communicated to the user it will only cause players to complain about the AI being "random" and "attacking for no reason."



Yes betrayal would have to be worked into the personality formula of an AI opponent and most games don't even have AI personalities much less a betrayal factor. The betrayal factor is much more complex... from what I've heard and seen CIV_4 and GalCiv_2 do some betrayal.

[BigJMoney]

What about taking a different approach to AI? Instead of trying to make an AI "think" like a human or "seem" like a human, why not just start small?

First of all, to have the most basic aspects of diplomacy, the AI doesn't actually have to be interactable, it just needs to exhibit relations. Each AI nation chooses allies, neutrals and enemies. This can be completely random, it doesn't need to be based on relative strength and intel. If it were, the player could exploit this by focusing on large armies to keep enemies from declaring war. Neutral relations would mean they ignore you. Allies would send a message that says, "X wants to ally with you, do you accept?" They will then periodically send surplus resources to their ally, and stealthy units will never be discovered and attacked in their lands. Now, the player can't alter relations manually, but he can choose to get involved. If a nation is at war with another, he can send resources to the one he wants to see win.

A few necessities:

* war should only be declared on those adjacent
* war can be declared at any time
* if a nation is already at war, they should not choose to declare war with someone else
* neutrals should still scout and instill uprising
* spies caught instilling unrest in allied territory change relation to neutral
* assassins caught in assassinations in allied territory change the relation to enemy
* alliances can otherwise be broken at any time
* alliances and wars can be seen by all

It's not a lot, but it allows the player some ability to backstab and be backstabbed. It's also non-exploitable. The only thing the player can do is declare war. Maybe sending ally requests to neutrals have an N% chance of them saying yes. To add some risk, maybe also give it a smaller chance of triggering war.

=$=

[Gandalf Parker]

The Dom3 AI does seemt to declare war on known neighbors. The trouble is that "known" can come from scouts, spies, and spells. Also the AI must be able to decalre war and retaliate with spells when spells are used against it so "adjacent" isnt a good idea.

Also "not decare war on a second nation" can be abused alot by stealth nations. One of my favorite tactics is to hang around a war and cleanup weak points from both sides of it.

Same with "wars seen by all". I would abuse that alot. Forcing me to use scouts to see where the wars are seems ok to me.

Of course I would like more diplomacy with the AI. I would like for it to recognize gifts. But I also know that I want these things because I spend more time strategizing such things in games than other people do about strategizing combat.

[Kristoffer O]

> Twan:
> make AIs attack not only a weaker player but the strongest one.

Why? Is anyone attacking the US? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
It is rare in history to attack the stong one. Ally with him and reap the benefit of a combined victory where your nation gets some of the spoils.

On the other hand, real life politics are not games and real life nations are not winners and loosers (OK, they might be loosers). So game balance wise (or from a there-can-only-be-one-god point of view) this might be a good solution:

> Twan:
> if a pretender is by large first in charts all neighbours should attack him instead of staying passive waiting for their turn. No need to make an alliance system for that, just make all the AIs aggressive against the potential winner once a critical power level is reached (usually by the player).


Perhaps the best diplo AI would include the ability to give other nations money, without any effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hmm, perhaps I'm too cynical http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DominionsFan]

Well 2 things about the diplo AI once more.

1. The AIs can ally with eachother -> Harder SP games.
2. Human players will exploit the diplo AI -> Easier SP games.

So the question is, is there a point to add a diplo AI to any game? Take a look at Civ 4. It takes a little effort to make an alliance with 1 or more nations in the game, that is hardcore exploiting. Just send them stuff and voila, you are all set. Galciv2 is the same...

[NTJedi]

Kristoffer O said:
> Twan:
> make AIs attack not only a weaker player but the strongest one.

Why? Is anyone attacking the US? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
It is rare in history to attack the stong one. Ally with him and reap the benefit of a combined victory where your nation gets some of the spoils.


Well Dominions is currently setup where there can be only one winner which dominates all territory unlike our current world. Perhaps Dominions_3 has a "combined victory" option available or in the works... otherwise joining forces with a much stronger player will at best only have you achieve 2nd place(the_first_loser). By joining forces with other nations against the most powerful player in the game it allows a possible victory.


Kristoffer O said:
On the other hand, real life politics are not games and real life nations are not winners and loosers (OK, they might be loosers).

Well the best AI would be an AI opponent which learns from its mistakes, learns from strategies of human opponents, and uses formulas to behave clever and sneaky like human opponents... unfortunately I doubt this type of AI will become available within the next 30 years.
The next best AI we will see in TBS/RTS gaming will randomly select one of several multiple personalities this will make it difficult to determine what the AI opponents will be doing. This type of AI will also be moddable allowing gamers and programmers to improve existing AIs and even create new AI personalities. Any game will have much fewer complaints on AI opponents if modding is available allowing them to continously evolve.

[Gandalf Parker]

Beware of the Neural-Net AI

[Ballbarian]

The next best AI we will see in TBS/RTS gaming will randomly select one of several multiple personalities this will make it difficult to determine what the AI opponents will be doing. This type of AI will also be modable allowing gamers and programmers to improve existing AIs and even create new AI personalities. Any game will have much fewer complaints on AI opponents if modding is available allowing them to continously evolve.



I agree completely. I have been writing AI scripts for Age of Kings and Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds for several years. For anyone into SWGB here is a link to my AI's home page (http://www.freewebs.com/ballbariansw/index.htm). It has been a popular AI among SWGB random map players for some time.

I avoided using any real diplomacy with it since it is a RTS game and the engines capabilities are quite limited in that respect anyway, but it does respond and chat to allies and enemies with a fair bit of variety.

It uses a series of randomly selected strategies based on map type, resource levels, and civilization selected. It will also adjust its strategies according to changing circumstances. The scripting language and AI engine is basically just a state machine, but it can create some pretty cool results.

Anyhow, my point is that if the scripting language is kept pretty simple and straight forward, and it gives the scripter the ability to influence unit selection, access to what the AI can "see", and the ability to do through commands anything that the human player can, a lot of potential is unlocked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Neophyte]

A kind of "diplomacy" that makes sense to me would be to allow pantheons to form. In the current only one of each nation, perhaps restricting pantheon forming to pretenders whose paths are mutually exclusive would be in order.

Pantheons would some into their own if multiple instances of nations were allowed - then it is simple, all pretenders from a given nation could be a pantheon.

[Twan]

Kristoffer O said:
> Twan:
> make AIs attack not only a weaker player but the strongest one.

Why? Is anyone attacking the US? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
It is rare in history to attack the stong one. Ally with him and reap the benefit of a combined victory where your nation gets some of the spoils.



Hum there can be only one true god. So if a pretender is near ascension everyone try to stop him, no ?

It's not exactly the real world situation (except in the delirium of some fanatics, and in most cases they like the attacking the US concept http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

[DominionsFan]

Speaking about AI....I've seen a new military robot in the news yesterday, and it can make own decisions depending on the situation. Quite scary isn't it? Maybe the things what we've seen in the sci-fi movies about robots will be real in like 20-30 years.

[Morkilus]

Was it this thing (http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_MDARS,,00.html)? I think I can build a Lego Mindstorms unit that has the same capability (on a smaller scale, of course...)

[DominionsFan]

Morkilus said:
Was it this thing (http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_MDARS,,00.html)? I think I can build a Lego Mindstorms unit that has the same capability (on a smaller scale, of course...)



Nop it was something else.

[Wick]

Here is a different sort of diplomacy system:

With Dominions 3 it's clear that different things can happen to pretenders. One becomes a god but the others can be bound in the underworld, destroyed, or simply laid to rest. This variation in results can be the basis for a diplomacy system.

This system uses four rules and requires a binding trading system. 1) An anhihilated pretender is worth no points, an imprisoned one is worth a point, a sleeping pretender is worth two and a god is worth 5 - (sum_of_other_scores / number_of_contenders). (That's down to 3 if all others are sleeping, and up to 5 if all destroyed) 2) The victorious god disposes of the pretenders as he chooses but is bound by terms he has agreed to. 3) A pretender may surrender and extinguish its own dominion. The hope of godhood is lost, it's prophet is depowered, but it may still act in the world.

The winner gets the most points by relentlessly destroying everyone. Everyone who doesn't win gets the most points if the player who gave them the best terms wins. So if victory is certain then destroy, if victory is in doubt then accept supporters, if victory is doubtful then steal allies by offering better terms, if losing is certain then surrender and get on the best bandwagon you can.

[AAshbery76]

Simple A.I Diplomacy would be a start.Non-aggression treatys and alliances.Simple trade pacts like in SEIV that give a certain resource percent.The lack of SP diplomacy is big disapointment.All the other modern 4x games have A.I diplomacy.It adds greatly to the roleplaying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Ygorl]

A little off the thread's current topic, but I like being able to summon 14 Corpse Men with one death gem.
Hee hee hee!

[Endoperez]

Ygorl said:
A little off the thread's current topic, but I like being able to summon 14 Corpse Men with one death gem.
Hee hee hee!



It's Air first, Death second, so Air gem.

And how is that? With a Staff of Storms? Lightning Rod only gives 4 per summon, perhaps 14 is a typo? If that's really possible, add me to the club. Corpse Men armies! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[DominionsFan]

Ygorl said:
A little off the thread's current topic, but I like being able to summon 14 Corpse Men with one death gem.
Hee hee hee!



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Endoperez]

DominionsFan said:

Ygorl said:
A little off the thread's current topic, but I like being able to summon 14 Corpse Men with one death gem.
Hee hee hee!



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif




Exactly. I checked it - 6 Corpse Men with a Staff of Storms (Air 4, costs 25 gems with the new formula), 4 with a Lightning Rod (Earth 1, 5 gems). Maybe 14 was a typo for 4?

[quantum_mechani]

Endoperez said:

DominionsFan said:

Ygorl said:
A little off the thread's current topic, but I like being able to summon 14 Corpse Men with one death gem.
Hee hee hee!



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif




Exactly. I checked it - 6 Corpse Men with a Staff of Storms (Air 4, costs 25 gems with the new formula), 4 with a Lightning Rod (Earth 1, 5 gems). Maybe 14 was a typo for 4?

I'm guessing it was the new air/death book artifact + staff.

[Endoperez]

Quantum also just said the same thing on IRC. 2A2D Artifact for Misc slot. This could be interesting.

Also, imagine a Nataraja with two Lightning Rods! Caelum even has four-armed Air/Death pretender! 7 20-hp undead every turn from turn X very early in the game? Needs starting Earth income, Earth and Death mages to make the Rods and to lead the Corpse Men, and... doesn't work. Grr. They don't stack. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[DominionsFan]

quantum_mechani said:

Endoperez said:

DominionsFan said:

Ygorl said:
A little off the thread's current topic, but I like being able to summon 14 Corpse Men with one death gem.
Hee hee hee!



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif




Exactly. I checked it - 6 Corpse Men with a Staff of Storms (Air 4, costs 25 gems with the new formula), 4 with a Lightning Rod (Earth 1, 5 gems). Maybe 14 was a typo for 4?

I'm guessing it was the new air/death book artifact + staff.



Oh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Ygorl]

Yeah, lightning rod + book. My mistake on the gem type.
Would two rods/staves stack? In any case you could have one of each, right? They're not bad at .05 of a gem each... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Neophyte]

Endoperez said:
Quantum also just said the same thing on IRC. 2A2D Artifact for Misc slot. This could be interesting.

Also, imagine a Nataraja with two Lightning Rods! Caelum even has four-armed Air/Death pretender! 7 20-hp undead every turn from turn X very early in the game? Needs starting Earth income, Earth and Death mages to make the Rods and to lead the Corpse Men, and... doesn't work. Grr. They don't stack. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



But staff of storms and lightning rod together would stack, wouldn't they?

[Ballbarian]

Straying from the current discussion, but...
Are there magic site levels above level 4 in Dom3?
Always figured that since we could site search up to level 9 in Dom2 that it might have been left open as an option for future versions.

[quantum_mechani]

Magic sites are still max level 4.

[Ballbarian]

Thank you for the quick reply quantum.

[Nerfix]

Hmm, I wonder if Corpse Man spam is a viable tactic for RoR Caelum...earth crafters make Lightning Rods with reduced cost and the Harabs cast the spell...

[DominionsFan]

Nerfix said:
Hmm, I wonder if Corpse Man spam is a viable tactic for RoR Caelum...earth crafters make Lightning Rods with reduced cost and the Harabs cast the spell...



This is Dominions, so many strategies can work. We can try it out soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Endoperez]

Nerfix said:
Hmm, I wonder if Corpse Man spam is a viable tactic for RoR Caelum...earth crafters make Lightning Rods with reduced cost and the Harabs cast the spell...



Corpse Men have magic resistance of only 4, so probably not. It might be possible to use them in addition to something else, but I'm not sure yet. It's not easy to use them to great effect, it seems.

[DominionsFan]

Endoperez said:

Nerfix said:
Hmm, I wonder if Corpse Man spam is a viable tactic for RoR Caelum...earth crafters make Lightning Rods with reduced cost and the Harabs cast the spell...



Corpse Men have magic resistance of only 4, so probably not. It might be possible to use them in addition to something else, but I'm not sure yet. It's not easy to use them to great effect, it seems.



Exactly. They can be excellent cannon fodders in masses. I will definitely try out this strategy to combine them with some hardcore troops.

[Nerfix]

We'll have to try this out.

[Morkilus]

On-topic:

I have to say that the new damage number graphics in the tactical battle views are very, very useful. It was hard to see whether or not your shortbows were doing anything before, and now I know if the Charge Body actually does anything (it does). Harrassment with arrows while "tanking" is definitely a good tactic, even against armored enemies; now I know why my enemies are driven before me.

[BigJMoney]

Morkilus, is there an option to turn it off? A hotkey to instantly toggle it like we can do with the background, I mean. It would be nice to view battles without it sometimes.

=$=

[Endoperez]

BigJMoney said:
Morkilus, is there an option to turn it off? A hotkey to instantly toggle it like we can do with the background, I mean. It would be nice to view battles without it sometimes.



I'm not Morkilus, but not to my knowledge.

I just noticed something strange as well: when changing to second form, the damage is shown as e.g. -46 [hp left - damage dealth - the max hp of the second form]. Hrmph. Off to the bug thread with it.