Manual: Just got the Proof - WOW!

[Tim Brooks]

Hi Folks:

Just got the proof of the manual and I am quite impressed! We are still poring through the content, but I thought you might like a preview...

First Scan (http://shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/Images/scan_1.jpg)
Second Scan (http://shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/Images/scan_2.jpg)

I apologize for my lack of scanning abilities, but you should get the idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[silhouette]

Well, if you're going to gloat, you should do it with more scans that that... How about a spell description page? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And I hope Zen is getting his credits for the SCQR work. Does it incorporate all the SCQR, MIQR, Mercenaries list, and Sites list? I may not have to keep any other harcopy refs anymore.

Sill

[Endoperez]

silhouette said:
Well, if you're going to gloat, you should do it with more scans that that... How about a spell description page? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And I hope Zen is getting his credits for the SCQR work. Does it incorporate all the SCQR, MIQR, Mercenaries list, and Sites list? I may not have to keep any other harcopy refs anymore.



I don't have it yet so can't answer that, but... Ritual of the Five Gates is very, VERY interesting spell. You'll see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Nerfix]

Ohhhh awesome.

[Tim Brooks]

How about a spell description page?



Well, I would scan the Spell Index, but it is 15 1/2 pages!

[Ballbarian]

Thanks for the scans Tim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Looks like it will be a quality manual. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif
(Could not find a thumbs up graemlin, but the penguin does not see enough use, so two penguins up!)

[Nerfix]

Well, scan something then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Tim Brooks]

Well, scan something then.



Scan 3 (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/images/scan_3.jpg)

[Nerfix]

So that is the mysterious dev team! :O

[Morkilus]

Is K.O. the one hiding in the back with a pointy hat?

[Annette]

Actually, that's our customer support staff. Except for the very...ummm...large *woman* wearing polka dots. She's VP of Piracy Prosecution http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[okiN]

How about scanning the index?

[SafeKeeper]

Looking really, really good. There are too few quality manuals out these days, so this is very welcome.

[DominionsFan]

Awesome, thanks for the scans Tim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Caduceus]

Those beta-testers are hot!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif

I see the manual will be quite dense! I like the fact you don't have to cross-check to see what kind of stats a summoned creature has!

[Gandalf Parker]

One page of each chart section maybe?

The scan you did of the magic spells shows alot. Definetly it justifies the coiled binding. It looks like it lays open easily. I wouldnt want to hold a book open while playing if it has such useful packed info as that.
Thank you

[Mortibus]

Nice, I haven't seen a fat manual like that since I had a Commodore 64. Two more weeks!

[ioticus]

It looks like they got rid of the unique Devils http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Morkilus]

I guess that means there won't be any rush to get the ID's; everyone can have as many as they want. I'm sure AQ's will still be unique.

[Gandalf Parker]

Part of the rush is killed by the fact that some of the strategically useful summons are nation specific.

[ioticus]

I hope there are some other unique blood summons to make up for taking away the unique Devils. The Devil uniques were some of my favorite summons.

[Wick]

Of course they didn't get rid of the uniques, and you can verify that in the manual. Look closer.

[ioticus]

Wick said:
Of course they didn't get rid of the uniques, and you can verify that in the manual. Look closer.



I know they didn't get rid of the uniques. I'm only talking about blood uniques to replace the Devils.

[Wick]

I can't parse that. Replace which devils, if not the unique (Ice-, Arch-) ones?

I assumed you looked at them in the manual scan, got some bizarre notion they were no longer unique, and went from there. Am I missing something?

[Agrajag]

Two Opposable Thumbs Up

[Sindai]

If they're still unique, then why does the manual only give the stats for one of them? The ID seems to be Bune and the archdevil is Furcas or Igarak (looks like the weapon is new so there's no exact way to tell).

[Wick]

A) Letting Ice Devils overrun the world like the did in Dom I is incompatible with Dom 3's general theme of nerfing supercombatants.
B) Since it's the Spell List, including every variation of summon... never mind. Just look at the bloody Foul Spawn. C) The quantity summoned for uniques is surrounded by ().

[Morkilus]

Ice devils rule! you will be crushed.!!!

[Taqwus]

Hmmmm hmmm. The 'x1' for the Fiend of Darkness featured in Ritual of Five Gates is in parentheses... ?

[Daynarr]

To my knowledge, Ice Devils and the likes are still unique.

[JaydedOne]

Tim,

If you'd be so kind as to scan a page in the manual that's less chart and more a sign of what Bruce wrote to guide new players, I'd appreciate that. I'm trying to sell my friends on the new game being more accessible than Dom2 and being able to point to a page or two that shows how much more user-friendly the manual is would be a great help. If no time, no worries. I imagine, I can work on the selling part in two weeks, if I'm not too busy playing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ioticus]

Daynarr said:
To my knowledge, Ice Devils and the likes are still unique.



If you mean you still get named Devils with different abilities, that's great news.

[Nerfix]

Why would IW have changed it?

[ioticus]

Wick said:
I can't parse that. Replace which devils, if not the unique (Ice-, Arch-) ones?

I assumed you looked at them in the manual scan, got some bizarre notion they were no longer unique, and went from there. Am I missing something?



I assumed they were no longer unique because the stats were only listed for one Devil in each category. I was talking about replacing the unique Devils.

[Wick]

Taqwus said:
Hmmmm hmmm. The 'x1' for the Fiend of Darkness featured in Ritual of Five Gates is in parentheses... ?



That is a hmmm indeed.

[Endoperez]

Wick said:

Taqwus said:
Hmmmm hmmm. The 'x1' for the Fiend of Darkness featured in Ritual of Five Gates is in parentheses... ?



That is a hmmm indeed.



Hint: The Ritual of the Five Gates summons five creatures.

[Nerfix]

Let me guess:
1 x FoD
1 x Devil
1 x Ice Demon
1 x Storm Demon
1 x Demon Knight

[ceremony]

Wick said:

Taqwus said:
Hmmmm hmmm. The 'x1' for the Fiend of Darkness featured in Ritual of Five Gates is in parentheses... ?



That is a hmmm indeed.


There is a key to the summoned creatures section, which explains that a parenthesized number indicates that there is more than one such creature available, and the stats given are for a representative creature. Don't read into what is an isn't in the game based just on individual page scans. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ceremony]

silhouette said:
And I hope Zen is getting his credits for the SCQR work. Does it incorporate all the SCQR, MIQR, Mercenaries list, and Sites list?


Zen did a fantastic job with the SCQR, MIQR, and other lists for Dom2. However, the listings for summoned creatures and magic items were re-done from scratch by me for Dom3 for the manual. I think I re-used some abbreviations but that's about it. There is not a list of mercenaries or magic sites, so you guys can start compiling those on Oct. 2nd. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Neophyte]

Haven't read through all the posts yet for this thread, and only looked at the first scan, but this is a decision maker for me. I'll be saving up to buy full price rather than waiting for a sale. Just based on the quality of the manual.

Have a great day!

[AAshbery76]

I see a page with a few units stats,what's the big deal exactly>?

[Endoperez]

AAshbery76 said:
I see a page with a few units stats,what's the big deal exactly>?



The stats and the magic paths of the summonable units are shown in the manual. They are shown efficiently, in a table. We also see the binding for the first time.

I have used my DomII manual for checking spells and items very often, and Dom3 manual promises to be even more useful... Of course, there are also other things that haven't been shown, like the tutorial and all the other text that don't tell of the game as much as of the ways to play it.

[baby_arm]

I see a page with a few units stats,what's the big deal exactly>?


That sexy plasti-coil binding gets everyone worked up. It's only natural for boys our age.

[Caduceus]

When is the last time you saw multiple forum topics about a manual that hasn't been released? Or the distributor POSTING pictures of said manual?

[ioticus]

Does the manual have a detailed index?

[DominionsFan]

Caduceus said:
When is the last time you saw multiple forum topics about a manual that hasn't been released? Or the distributor POSTING pictures of said manual?



I've seen it one time. The devs posted some scans about the manual for Warlords Battlecry III. It was a long time ago.

[PDF]

Caduceus said:
When is the last time you saw multiple forum topics about a manual that hasn't been released? Or the distributor POSTING pictures of said manual?



Humm, never ...
Dom3 : The Awakening ... of the Big Fat Manual that we believed dead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif !

[Mortibus]

AAshbery76 said:
I see a page with a few units stats,what's the big deal exactly>?



Sadly enough, we're so used to getting a completely useless 10-page piece of crap manual when buying a game that this is an exciting event.

[Nerfix]

I've never had any really, really big manuals. This one will be my first. Bu boy, 300 pages, I've read books shorter than that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DominionsFan]

Nerfix said:
I've never had any really, really big manuals. This one will be my first. Bu boy, 300 pages, I've read books shorter than that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Yeah heh. Hm...My Oblivion manual is the only one what is so big so far. Eh damn, that game was so good at first look, but it became boring after 4-5 days. Gameplay > graphics, this is why I still play Dominions 2. a lot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[PDF]

Nerfix said:
I've never had any really, really big manuals. This one will be my first. Bu boy, 300 pages, I've read books shorter than that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



You're too young, man !
In the late 80s-early 90s 100+ pages manual were rather usual.
Now the last fat ones (ca 200p) I've got except Dominions where BFC'Combat Mission manuals. Even then it was only the US versions, when CDV published them in Europe we had the usual crap-leaflets instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Often now we have a big PDF manual files in addition to the leaflet but that's not the same thing ...

[Agrajag]

Though not big at all, I really liked the Starcraft manual with all the cool background stories http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Morkilus]

I think I had just as much fun with the Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin manual as I did with the game. I never got many human opponents, though.

[Cainehill]

Some of the Baldur's Gate / Icewind Dale manuals were rather beefy; iirc even some of the ancient Gold Box AD&D based games had 100+ pagers.

[baby_arm]

The Baldur's Gate and Arcanum manuals are two of my favorites. The TOEE manual is also quite nice: 176 pages of spiral-bound nerd love.

[JaydedOne]

Baldur's Gate II was indeed a lovable monstrosity. After so much time staring woefully at razor-thin console game manuals, it's beautiful to be getting something so substantive again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Agrajag]

The NWN manual was also a good read.
The game was a disappointment though :\

[NTJedi]

Agrajag said:
The NWN manual was also a good read.
The game was a disappointment though :\



Sounds like you only played the campaign which came with the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
NWN has endless replay value and keeps a very large active community. Thousands of different worlds to download with Neverwinter Nights... use their forums to find the good ones. You can even CONTROL your own world as other players go adventuring in your realm.
Neverwinter Nights is a great game for many reasons.

[Endoperez]

NTJedi said:
Sounds like you only played the campaign which came with the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Neverwinter Nights is a great game for many reasons.



I've heard that argument too, and the counter-argument that the campaign which came with the game is NOT one of those reasons!

[DominionsFan]

NTJedi said:

Agrajag said:
The NWN manual was also a good read.
The game was a disappointment though :\



Sounds like you only played the campaign which came with the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
NWN has endless replay value and keeps a very large active community. Thousands of different worlds to download with Neverwinter Nights... use their forums to find the good ones. You can even CONTROL your own world as other players go adventuring in your realm.
Neverwinter Nights is a great game for many reasons.



I was playing it for like 2 months in multiplayer. The server was LotR based. [The server's name was Stormplay and it was really good.]

[NTJedi]

Endoperez said:

NTJedi said:
Sounds like you only played the campaign which came with the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Neverwinter Nights is a great game for many reasons.



I've heard that argument too, and the counter-argument that the campaign which came with the game is NOT one of those reasons!


From other forums where people posted about not enjoying NWN... my personal investigation revealed they only played the campaign. I'm sure they're not all the same, but this is what I have observed. Personally I enjoyed the campaign, and the game offers so much more.
Neverwinter Nights is one of the games I never see being uninstalled on my computer... at least not for the next 5 years.

[baby_arm]

Is that you, Volourn?

[Agrajag]

Well, I played both MP and SP.
SP is just not fun (regardless of the campaign, I've tried all sorts of campaigns, I even borrowed a friend's expansion pack when those came out, and didn't really have much fun with it), maybe because as far as gameplay goes I'd really rather play a game like BG or IWD.
MP was fun for a while, but it gets boring fast when you mostly end up playing alone in a huge world, with other players playing alone somewhere else. Then the expansions came and I couldn't play any game because you had to have the expansions to enter most servers.