What if Trampling units used their weapons...

[Nerfix]

...at the end of their attack? Discuss.

[mivayan]

eater of the dead and various minutaurs would be a lot more usefull. get tired quicker too probably.

[DominionsFan]

Sounds interesting. I can definitely imagine about a minotaur running accross the battlefield, trampling his enemies, and meanwhile chopping some heads off with his axe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

However it would be a bit overpowered I guess. ^^

[Teraswaerto]

I'm not sure trampling is that great at the moment, in most cases.

It might be too good for some units but they could be given weaker attacks or something.

[Nerfix]

Teraswaerto said:
I'm not sure trampling is that great at the moment, in most cases.

It might be too good for some units but they could be given weaker attacks or something.

What would those units be?

[TomD]

I think that the problem is not about units with the trampling ability (who could always be tweaked a little to balance up if necessary) but for heroes who gain it through an item. If Boots of the Behemoth gave you trample without affecting any of your existing attacks they'd be a real no-brainer. At the moment it's often a tough choice depending on the opponents you face.

Maybe there should be a penalty to attack skill to represent tripping over all those little bodies...

[Teraswaerto]

What would those units be?

Don't really know, chariots maybe? The point was that while there may be units that would become too good for their current cost if they are allowed both attack and trample, I think the idea of letting tramplers also attack with weapons is good.

[Nerfix]

TomD said:
I think that the problem is not about units with the trampling ability (who could always be tweaked a little to balance up if necessary) but for heroes who gain it through an item. If Boots of the Behemoth gave you trample without affecting any of your existing attacks they'd be a real no-brainer. At the moment it's often a tough choice depending on the opponents you face.

Maybe there should be a penalty to attack skill to represent tripping over all those little bodies...

Not really a no-brainer, good, yes, but few things are no-brainers. Diving into a mass of enemies can present some nasty drawbacks, and there are other nice boots such as Brimstone Boots, Boots of Quickness etc etc.

Still, attack penalty would be a good idea incase Tramplers could use their weapons.

[Maltrease]

In Dom2 I thought that Trampling units DID use their weapons. That is until after my surprise attack of 10 fully decked out golems (with the winged armor that adds trample) were slaughtered by the very SC's they were specifically kitted to destroy because they just tried to trample the banelords instead of attacking and likely winning the battle in 2 rounds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[KissBlade]

Well if trampling units could use their weapons, those trampling minotaurs might actually be worth it, that's for sure. nobles too. =\

[mivayan]

TomD said:If Boots of the Behemoth gave you trample without affecting any of your existing attacks they'd be a real no-brainer.


For the prince of death... yes. For others: Not at all. Cant rely on a reinvigoration item to keep you awake unless you have have 0 enc or only trample one tile per turn.


At the moment it's often a tough choice depending on the opponents you face.

Maybe there should be a penalty to attack skill to represent tripping over all those little bodies...


Sure... -4 attack to the boots. The stymphalian wings already have -4 att and def.

[Shovah32]

I would go with -4 attack and -2 or -3 defence(try avoid and defending yourself from attacks while running over people)

[curtadams]

It would certainly make more sense. It's pretty bizarre that weapons become basically irrelevant on a large unit with trample. When I first kitted out the Earth Mother I dIdn't expect her to act like an oversized bowling ball. If units needed to be upcosted a bit I'd be OK with it. Alternatively trample vs swing could be made into a unit decision the way mages pick spells - I suspect that, as Kissblade says, most of the trampling units are costed with consideration of their non-trampling abilities.

[Talleyrand]

Units with trample don't attack with their weapons? Are you guys serious?

[Endoperez]

If there was no change other than adding the attack(s) after trample, SCs/thugs would be VERY nasty. Enc 0 is ALREADY a huge bonus, and we don't want to make undead thugs summons even MORE prevalent than they already are. Well, what I think they are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I don't actually play that many long MP games.

However, if trample items (Stymphalian Wings and Boots of Behemoth AFAIK) added -4 att and -4 def, and most trampling units would have lower att/def rating than other similarly priced units (as is the case with Minotaurs already), I don't think it'd cause too many problems... Still, to answer the original question:

TRAMLING WOULD RULE! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[dirtywick]

One thing though is they still seem to get the effects of the weapon they're equipped with. For instance, a Sword of Quickness on a unit with Boots of the Behemoth seems like he tries to trample guys twice as often.

Maybe not, I don't know how to test that conclusively but it seems like it just by watching them.

[Zen]

It doesn't.

# of Tramples is determined by AP's of the Trampling unit. I don't think size difference matters either, just on the amount of fatigue you gain for the trample.

[Shovah32]

I doubt it since trampling relies on AP, quickness however does increase trampling.

[HoneyBadger]

I think it would be nice if they did attack. I'm one of the ones who wasn't certain whether trampling negated the ability to use weapons, but it makes sense that units 'would' use attacks, if they have them. As I view it, trampling units are charging into the enemies as per a calvalry rush, for instance, lopping off heads with sabres or what have you, along the way. The danger for the trampling units should be a reduction of defense ability, say -4, that sounds like a good amount, plus units with long spears. I think trampling units should not be penalized for their attack and infact might even recieve a small bonus to damage due to momentum, but, along with a defense penalty, might recieve a protection penalty if attacked with a weapon of lengths 3-5.

[HoneyBadger]

Another quick thought that comes to mind: why not have some units, or possibly some weapon-types, specifically there to defend against tramplers? Giant sea urchins and poisonous fish for the underwater, for instance, along with some kind of leader ability that does a lot of damage to tramplers and adds to overall unit protection for units with spears, so that phalanx-formations can be formed?

[mivayan]

Zen said:
It doesn't.

# of Tramples is determined by AP's of the Trampling unit. I don't think size difference matters either, just on the amount of fatigue you gain for the trample.


Size difference determines how many AP each trample attempt costs, but each attempt costs same as a melee attack. Size 3 minotaurs have just as many move points as a great mother, but can only trample humans twice in a turn, the mother 4.

[KissBlade]

Trample: Broken if you're allowed to attack?! The effects of trampling aside from size 5 or 6 is so miniscule that often I'd rather the unit be able to just attack with their weapons instead! XD