How reliable are scout reports?

[FAJ]

Title says it all; how reliable are the enemy force predicitons? How reliable are the estimates for neighboring a province vs with a spy? Will a spy ever lie and indicate a smaller force than there is in actuality?

[alexti]

I think in Dom2 there was margin of error - scout would report something within +-50% of the actual amount, spies would give more precise numbers.

[GwyrgynBlood]

Keep in mind also that the scout is just reporting what is there currently. Movement in friendly provinces happens before moving into enemy ones... so the enemy can drop a big stack onto it in the same turn you try to attack. They can also recruit units there too.

[Forrest]

Not worth a flip against stealthy units.

I lost a battle in which the enemy had 113 surviving stealthy glamour units. I had a scout in the province. The report only mentioned the nonstealthy units. It reported just over 50 units when I could look in the messages and see 160 surviving nonrouted units at the end of the battle.

[Ozymandias]

Glamorous units can never be observed while in friendly territory, no matter how you look.

[Corwin]

Ozymandias said:
Glamorous units can never be observed while in friendly territory, no matter how you look.



What about when they are commanded by unstealthy commander? Would they be they still invisible to scouts?

[Graeme Dice]

Corwin said:
What about when they are commanded by unstealthy commander? Would they be they still invisible to scouts?



The easiest answer to this question is to re-read his response. The answer is the same, with absolutely no qualifiers. You can never, under any circumstances, see units with glamour. It does not matter one bit whether they are hiding, sneaking, defending, patrolling, or any other order. They are completely invisible on the strategic map. Stealthy units that are hiding in friendly provinces are just as invisible.

[Cainehill]

IOW (In Other Words) : You might see their non-stealthy commander, but you won't see the glamorous troops. Kind of the opposite of glamorous individuals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Corwin]

Graeme Dice said:

Corwin said:
What about when they are commanded by unstealthy commander? Would they be they still invisible to scouts?



The easiest answer to this question is to re-read his response. The answer is the same, with absolutely no qualifiers. You can never, under any circumstances, see units with glamour. It does not matter one bit whether they are hiding, sneaking, defending, patrolling, or any other order. They are completely invisible on the strategic map. Stealthy units that are hiding in friendly provinces are just as invisible.



Interesting. So commander with glamour AND with stealth, such as Van, can build castle, search, preach, do whatever he wants without being observed by the enemy. Effectively castles will pop out of nowhere as far as your opponent concerned (unlike when you are building castle with scout, who becomes visible while he is performing "build" command.)

It's good to know, thanks.

[ceremony]

Corwin said:
Interesting. So commander with glamour AND with stealth


There are no commanders with Glamour but without Stealth. Glamour gives a unit/commander an automatic Stealth +25, as well as the Glamour advantage of being unseen in friendly provinces.

[Corwin]

ceremony said:

Corwin said:
Interesting. So commander with glamour AND with stealth


There are no commanders with Glamour but without Stealth. Glamour gives a unit/commander an automatic Stealth +25, as well as the Glamour advantage of being unseen in friendly provinces.



Right, but my point is that such combo gives you ability to build castle while not being detected by enemy, based upon what people said in this thread. In competitive MP games people have a lot of scouts, and if you see the single enemy commander hanging around certain province for several turns, you know that there is a good chance he is building a castle there. And such privince is a good candidate for the attack with remote summon or whatever you have.

[Corwin]

Speaking of which I have another question. Let's say you are bulding scouts in certain province each turn. If your opponent have a scout of his own in that province, will the enemy scout detect your scout for the first turn in with is was build?

In other words, are scouts visible to enemy for the first turn in which they were created, or they are "hidden" from the very begining?

[Shovah32]

They are visible due to their default order (like all others) being defend. The only units that cant be seen when created are those with glamour iirc.

[BigJMoney]

I am hoping that one day scouts can give a bit more info than they do currently. It would be nice if they also reported population and whether enemy castles are under construction.

=$= Big J Money =$=

[Endoperez]

ceremony said:

Corwin said:
Interesting. So commander with glamour AND with stealth


There are no commanders with Glamour but without Stealth. Glamour gives a unit/commander an automatic Stealth +25, as well as the Glamour advantage of being unseen in friendly provinces.



I thought Glamour only gave +25 Stealth if the unit already had Stealth. One of Bogus' group has Glamour, for instance, and I don't think any have stealth (but I could have overlooked that as it doesn't come into play). Similarly, the Gnomes recruitable from some rare site have glamour, but might not be stealthy. And I think the mercenary Air mage has Glamour (hmm... it might've been that he just cast Mirror Image).