Will Oceanians ever lose "poor amphib." on land?

[Reverend Zombie]

I sure hope so. Or is that working as designed? /threads/images/Graemlins/Fish.gif

[Endoperez]

Well, it doesn't really matter. Even poor amphibian ability is enough to make them immune to spells that only affect landlubbers.

[Edi]

They actually need the poor amphibian ability because otherwise they would not be able to re-enter the sea...

Edi

[Reverend Zombie]

Normal Amphib, which they have when underwater, would actually do the trick.

[Edi]

Normal or poor, either way works.

[Reverend Zombie]

Edi said:
Normal or poor, either way works.



But normal works better! With "poor" they get stat penalties. As "good" Amphibians they would not. "Poor amphib" on a unit that is a "normal" Amphib underwater seems like a bug.

It would be nice if the devs would clarify.

[SelfishGene]

Shouldn't Agartha be a poor amphibian nation instead of normal amphib?

[Strages Sanctus]

unless they are good underwater where they naturally live and worse when out of water...

[Reverend Zombie]

Strages Sanctus said:
unless they are good underwater where they naturally live and worse when out of water...



Yep, I can see that side of the argument. On an issue that could go either way, it would be nice to know if this is working as designed. If it is, the issue could then come off the bug list, and we would stop looking for it to be "fixed." It would then become a theme or balance issue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[SelfishGene]

Oh, i thought poor amphibian went from land->water, not the other way around!

They need a poor land amphibian tag then.

[SelfishGene]

Strages Sanctus said:
unless they are good underwater where they naturally live and worse when out of water...



Wait, hold on, skeletons are poor amphibians. They have full stats on land.

Or am i missing something?

[Strages Sanctus]

They keep that tag when they go in the waater. meaning they fight badly in water.

I just assume the oceania troops fight badly on land I haven't checked myself. Seems logical though.

[Reverend Zombie]

SelfishGene said:
Oh, i thought poor amphibian went from land->water, not the other way around!




Usually they do. That's why it seems buggy for Oceania.

[thejeff]

Oceania's troop have different forms on land, right?

I'd assume that the "poor amphib" tag means the land form would fight poorly in the water, but since they shift form it won't make any difference.

[Reverend Zombie]

thejeff said:
Oceania's troop have different forms on land, right?

I'd assume that the "poor amphib" tag means the land form would fight poorly in the water, but since they shift form it won't make any difference.



Underwater, Oceanians have the Amphib tag. They fight with no penalties underwater.

Their land form has the Poor Amphib tag, and if you check their stats you will see that they are penalized when on land.

So it makes a difference. Maybe it was intended, maybe not--i.e., maybe the Poor Amphib tag got picked mistakenly instead of Amphib for the land form.

It would be nice to know what the devs intent was.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

What penalties does pooramphibian give a unit on land?

[Reverend Zombie]

Attack, defense, encumbrance penalites. I don't recall the exact numbers. You could check this yourself, you know.

[Kydorias]

So you're saying the description should be "Poor landphibian".

[PvK]

If that's what he's saying, it doesn't look to me like he is correct. None of my Oceanians have any penalties either on land or on sea (except that some can't come onto land at all, because they can't grow legs). The icon is misleading for the units that change shape when they come onto dry ground, but it has no actual negative effect. It's more like disinformation for the enemy, who might expect, say, a Wave Warrior, to be a poor fighter underwater, when they see his legged form on land - but they have no penalties on land, and when they go underwater, they change shape into a fishtailed shape that also has no penalty underwater.

PvK

[Reverend Zombie]

PvK said:
If that's what he's saying, it doesn't look to me like he is correct.
PvK



I double-checked, and I am wrong. Attributes do change (movement goes way down, for example, when on land), but there don't appear to be any poor amphib penalties per se. The different attributes appear to be a function of the different shape on land--a whole separate stat base than the form for the undersea version of the unit.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Reverend Zombie said:
Attack, defense, encumbrance penalites. I don't recall the exact numbers. You could check this yourself, you know.



I did, couldn't see what the $$$$ you were blathering about, but was trying to be polite and assume I was just being stupid or dense.

I guess I will just take the high road here though, and not mention anything about you BEING WRONG and BEING A RUDE $$$$.

Heh heh... just messing with you, dude. I should have checked it myself, just as you said. ;-)

[Reverend Zombie]

Uh-Nu-Buh said:

Reverend Zombie said:
Attack, defense, encumbrance penalites. I don't recall the exact numbers. You could check this yourself, you know.



I did, couldn't see what the $$$$ you were blathering about, but was trying to be polite and assume I was just being stupid or dense.




It would have been more helpful if you just said, "I checked the numbers, here they are, and you are wrong," instead of pussyfooting around.

[UninspiredName]

...Nice choice of sig, by the way.

[BigJMoney]

Sounds to me like the icon change is a fluke, but it's a harmless fluke since neither of the amphibious traits have an effect on units while they're on land. I think you have a good eye for catching it, personally. Two years from now a newbie will come into the forums asking this exact question, and nobody will know what the hell he's talking about, and he'll get probably similar responses. I call this effect the "Circle of Dominion".

=$= Big J Money =$=

[Beorne]

SelfishGene said:
Shouldn't Agartha be a poor amphibian nation instead of normal amphib?



I'm of the same idea, only the "wet ones" described as living uw should be amphibian. I'd like to know if it is a bug or if it is working as intended.