Gandalf's Crazy Solo Games

[Gandalf Parker]

Since some people have shown an interest....
Here is one of the ways I like to play Dominions.
http://www.Dom3Minions.com/RandomMaps/MegaMap.zip

It has 1495 provinces, 3 large oceans and 3 large land areas. You can play with all the other nations in your era and still have wilderness between you making scouting for them an effort. And there lots of impassable mountains creating chokepoints. It also has various surprises scattered around the map so be sure to SCOUT CAREFULLY before attacking a province.

I also added a short script that shows how I generated the additions that are scattered on the map. The "interesting.yab" isnt needed to play the map but if you have a YaBasic or some other basic then you might use it to generate surprises for other maps also. Or re-generate the surprises on this one if you play it enough to get to know whats there.

Warning: generating the world at the beginning of the game can take awhile

Gandalf Parker

[aku666]

Wow, now that's a huge map. It's very tempting to try it but I'm afraid, that the turn generation time would leap to at least 10-15 minutes...

[Gandalf Parker]

On my machine it takes 3 minutes to create the game, and about a minute to process the turns. But it is a nice new windows machine. The hosting time is just long enough for me to stop waiting and realize I should probably try to accomplish at least one other thing than playing Dominions all day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I wasnt really sure if anyone would want to play it but I like it. It feels more strategic to me to be able to do any tactic I want. Small maps tend to force too many issues.

[Wish]

man my machine was top of the line a couple years ago, and it takes like 10 minutes to creat 5 minutes per turn

it really does have a large wilderness feel to it though.

[NTJedi]

Gandalf Parker said:
On my machine it takes 3 minutes to create the game, and about a minute to process the turns.



How long does it take to process turns on large maps during late game??

[Gandalf Parker]

My game is on turn 39.

The only really large game I have numbers on is on my server. If you look at
http://www.dom3minions.com/games/PvK-e-Oceania/
Its on turn 74, started with 79 nations, and is up to 17 minutes to process a turn

[Loren]

Just don't play with LA Ermor on a map like that. Turn generation could be utterly insane.

[Zarkon]

Ha ha! This map was so mighty it killed my computer! OK, it was actually bad ram, but the coincidence was pretty funny.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah playing with the extremes of this game has let me find out I had bad ram on one of my machines also. Kindof funny. It reminds me of something I came up with a long time ago.

Hey Boss, look at this.....
"Diagnostic software designed to maximumly test the limits of
memory, disc read/write access, keyboard and mouse inputs, the highest
video settings and sound quality all concurrently. If used on a regular
basis any changes in system performance would be instantly noticed
before degrading to the point of affecting other softwares."
It's called insert-name-of-favorite-game-here

Gandalf Parker

[Wish]

what are the specs on your machine gandalf, knowing how its supposed to perform under those conditions might help us find our own bad ram or other bottlenecks

[Gandalf Parker]

The computers I use from my desk?

the old server running 1 demo's only Dom3 game, 1 10-player mid sized Dom3 game, 8 4-player blitz Dom3 games, also a MUD server, email, lots of other stuff...
System Information:
CPU Information:
Number of CPUs: 1
Processor #0 Information:
Vendor: AuthenticAMD
Model: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
Speed: 857.661 MHz
Cache: 256 KB
Total Memory: 320772 kb
Operating System:
Linux 2.4.18-686

Newer server running 5 very large dom3 games, irc, many domains, and generating dom3 maps, etc.
3Ghz Pentium4
1 gig memory
linux Debian

old desktop now doing mail reading, browsing forums, reading documents, etc.
996 Mhz
2 gig memory
WinXP

new desktop playing games including Dom3 mega game.
dual processor 2128Mhz
2Gb memory
WinXp

[Zarkon]

A minor update on my adventures with this map....After my debacle with the bad ram I fired it up on the early age playing as Niefelheim.... On average, turns take 4-5 minutes to process on my 2 gig dual core. Yowza.

I don't mean to be a noob, but how can I generate maps like this? My main disappointment with the randomly generated maps is the uniformity of the independents...

[PhilD]

I tried a game vs 20 or so Impossible AIs, as MA Man, and had the good surprise of getting a free Horror... Now, 10 turns into the game, it's been solo conquering a province per turn, and largely leads the Hall of Fame with 129 kills...

Since it's got Tough Skin, I want to see how high its Protection can go - currently 26, I know it can do better than that... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack_Trowell]

A free horror ?!?

How could you get a free horror exactly, without using wish ?

For what I understand, Gandalf script only add random units/labs/temples and forts in independant provinces.

Do you mean that map settings that add units and commanders are not overwriten by the nation starting units when the province is set as a capitol ?

[Actuarian]

You are crazy!

I'm guessing you set research at the slowest level. What do for the other settings on these really big maps?

[PhilD]

Jack_Trowell said:
A free horror ?!?




Yep. Nice buddy, even with a Limp affliction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Do you mean that map settings that add units and commanders are not overwriten by the nation starting units when the province is set as a capitol ?



Yeah, that's right. This is how you can set up test maps with lots of researchers (but, the game could overwrite the starting units when the province is used as a capitol, except if the capitol is set in the same .map file - that would make some sense).

[Gandalf Parker]

The script was included.
At the moment Im using a really simple one. It just counts thru 1495 provinces, and randomly drops things into it. Im afraid that it does include a chance for you to start in a province that has a surprise. An additional commander, with level 4 random equipment, maybe some bodyguards, and some additonal units.

The only way to avoid that bit of luck in maps like this would be to designate all of the provinces that people can start in and avoid those when tossing in surprises. By the way, I ended up with that horror as a neighbor right next to my castle and Im still trying to get rid of it.

Im still generating batches of maps on my server and making a webpage to see if any catch my interest.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/maxs/_index.jpg
Im also waiting for the new patch so I can finally set ALL of the colors. Then I will pick one to take the time to clean up the neighbors, and set the starting locations. Also I might toss in AI alliances and such just to make it harder. Then I will set it up to re-create it every day so that people can snag a new one when they have played out that one.

If you want to try a smaller (and daily rerun) version then you can check out the Dom2 version. It can be played in Dom3 I believe.
http://www.dom2minions.com/PokeEye.shtml

Gandalf Parker

[Jack_Trowell]

I've just finished making a conversion of your script in Perl.

(note : the perl module Math::Random is needed, easy to install on Windows with activeperl)

As you were using the same code in lots of places (mainly for commander generation + bodyguards and/or squads of units), I made a function to centralize that, so it should be easier to change numbers/probabilities with the version.

I plan to add some more features in the near future, such as a parsing of the original file (to get the number of province and other infos), and maybe a separate config file (maybe in XML)

Edit : updated attachment with latest version

[Gandalf Parker]

I recommend accepting a map name and creating a new .map file for it each time. Such as, if they say they want to do the eye.map then create a .map file calling it eye_chaos.map using the eye.tga image. That way they can do it to any map they want without destroying the original for MP games.

[Jack_Trowell]

new version of the perl script :

- now the script need the original map file :

gmap.pl map=<original_file>.map

- the original file will not be modified anymore, by default the modified map file will be named <original_file>_chaos.map

- you can specify another name for the output file :

gmap.pl map=<original_file>.map output=test.map

(exemple in the gmap.bat file included in the archive)

- the number of province of the original file is now automatically filled by parsing the original file

- for provinces with no random goodies, "#setland <ID>" is no longer added to the output as there is nothing more that follow for this province.

[Jack_Trowell]

another version : the script now add to the province description (in the output map file) that the map has been edited by it, with the date and time.

This should help for those that wish to use the script several times on the same map

[Caduceus]

Tried the map from Gandalf and it brought my computer (AMD 3700+) to a screaming halt. I'll try it again tonight if I have time...

[Gandalf Parker]

If the MegaMap crashes then try the Dom2 "Poke in the Eye" scenario. It does the same things but with a smaller map it doesnt have quite the replayability. However since I regenerate PokeEye every day that helps.

[thejeff]

How long does it take to finish these games?
How long before you actually have contact with other nations?

And how long to play a turn by the time you've beaten one or two nations?

I'd never make it. I can barely finish games with 3-4 AI nations before starting to dread trudging through another turn. How do you deal with the scale of the late game?

[NTJedi]

thejeff said:
And how long to play a turn by the time you've beaten one or two nations?

I'd never make it. I can barely finish games with 3-4 AI nations before starting to dread trudging through another turn. How do you deal with the scale of the late game?



It's easy... setup the victory condition as victory points. It prevents the SP or MP gamer from having to conquer the entire map. It also adds a new flavor to the game because if some AI or human starts getting close to winning it changes who you have to focus on being your enemy.
I recommend making each capital a victory point then add several 1pt, 2pt and 3pt VP provinces... set the winning amount as 35% of all VPs. The larger the map means adding more 2pt and 3pt provinces. If the game becomes to easy then add more AI opponents or edit the .map file and setup the AI opponents as allies.

[thejeff]

I get victory points. But we're talking 1500 provinces here. Even with 35%, you're going to be a huge empire before winning.

I'm just curious how bad it gets in these huge games and how Gandalf handles it.

[Gandalf Parker]

To everyone:
Keep in mind that these are NOT the types of games for the strategy MP player but more for the Solo RPG player. At least thats why I enjoy it. I like playing my pretender thru a long game. I get really into BEING that god and getting pissed at the other gods for what they do. I dont want to play just until the winning strategy is picked and then the game is over without being played out completely. I like playing in a whole world.
I consider heavy management to be part of the headache of trying to rule the world http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


thejeff said:
How long does it take to finish these games?



I dont know yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Even with the fact that I started with Dom3 a year ago. Im one of the beta testers. And I have definetly played more maximum games than anyone else. I kindof think that was one of the reasons that I was in beta, to test the insane limits of everything in the game. Max map sizes, max nations. I found the limits and some were changed on number of nations, units in the game, armies, network streaming, etc.

But I have proven that if you WANT to play Dominions as if it was an RPG world then you can. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


How long before you actually have contact with other nations?


I think I was 30 turns into my latest game before I reached another nation.


And how long to play a turn by the time you've beaten one or two nations?


I dont know yet. I didnt bother keeping track of such things in my other big games. In this one Im still trying to take out my first enemy but I have beaten the god and taken most of their forts. It also helped that I pushed them into war with two of the AIs at the same time.


I'd never make it. I can barely finish games with 3-4 AI nations before starting to dread trudging through another turn. How do you deal with the scale of the late game?


It depends on what you like or dont like. As a stay-at-home dad (retired and caring for a handicapped child) this works well for me. I can spend almost an hour doing a turn, then when I hit host it takes far too long for me to sit and wait so Im forced to get up and take care of a chore. While Im doing a chore I can think about what I will do for my next turn.

Its not like an MP game where forgetting any little thing on each turn can be the end of you. Im kinda sloppy in how I play but hey, Im a god, I can be sloppy if I want. Every once in awhile I have to do "cleanup". Run thru the F1 screen to set PD on provinces I missed, or to view the magic sites that my monthly searching mages discovered, or check for useful indepts that I should be making.

[NTJedi]

thejeff said:
I get victory points. But we're talking 1500 provinces here. Even with 35%, you're going to be a huge empire before winning.

I'm just curious how bad it gets in these huge games and how Gandalf handles it.



I recall reading Gandalf doesn't finish his SP games when playing 1000 or more provinces. I see he already responded... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
I always finish my SP and MP games to the bitter end whether I'm winning or losing. In the scenario where 35% of VPs are needed on maps of 1400 provinces... the time to win actually becomes a matter of research and gem income. Once you have enough gems to create powerful armies all you need is the research to teleport them to the correct VP provinces.
The only downside is the AI needs to be improved to recognize provinces with VPs.

[Jack_Trowell]

Caduceus said:
Tried the map from Gandalf and it brought my computer (AMD 3700+) to a screaming halt. I'll try it again tonight if I have time...



If you like the concept, but prefer to use a smaller map, you can use my perl script with any normal map.

I used it yesterday on a tower map with "only" 150 provinces (but with higher percentage of random goodies)

[Gandalf Parker]

If you generate a map for solo play I recommend turning the mountains to 50 or higher. It creates many "chokepoint" positions on the map which control the access to small areas. Allowing for lots of "cut them off at the pass" tactics. At setting shigher than 50 you can get a maze.

[Wish]

in my first test of the mega map you provided, Yomi has started across the southwest continent from tien chi (though still its closest on-land neighbor in an east west direction...

and the first war that I happened to partake in.... japan vs. china

also along the northern part of said continent vanhiem is duking it out with nifelhiem.

was this thing planned such that it would be relatively historically accurate?

[NTJedi]

Gandalf Parker said:
If you generate a map for solo play I recommend turning the mountains to 50 or higher. It creates many "chokepoint" positions on the map which control the access to small areas.


I also recommend this for new players... the more experienced players should use 30 or less since the AI opponent lack the intelligence to effectively use chokepoints.

[Jack_Trowell]

Gandalf Parker said:
If you generate a map for solo play I recommend turning the mountains to 50 or higher. It creates many "chokepoint" positions on the map which control the access to small areas. Allowing for lots of "cut them off at the pass" tactics. At setting shigher than 50 you can get a maze.



I know : inspired by your horizontal maps that you posted before I got the game (waiting for tuxgame made me live more than 1 month without dom3 after the official release date ! At least it made me subscribre to the forums : I had been lurking since dom2) I used the random map generator to make maps with similar settings, ... but smaller.

I love maps with lots of specials and chokepoints, and I love SP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

I think in fact that our playstyles are very similar, exept that I prefer smaller maps (I like a big game sometimes, but 1500 provinces is really asking for trouble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

Just another thing oh mightly Gandalf, Lord of Eternal Games, Master of Randomness, do you think that extending my perl conversion is useful ?

I have several plans, such making the random commanders depend on the province type(s) (for exemple no random commander and units drowning in a sea province, and thematically appropriate monsters in forests/moutains, maybe an increased chance of lootable treasures in caves (more commanders and monsters with magic items), ...

But for such a project, I would need to parse the complete unit list and choose wich units could go to wich terrain type, and others hings like that.

It's not the programming by itself that worry me, it's the time to process the huge amount of raw data in dom3.

If I think the project can really be useful for the community, I could manage to get the work done. (perl programming is part of my day job, so it's not there that I will have problems)

I can also take sugggestions : I should be able to parse any information from original map files (even starting provinces if there's defined) and from there make any moddable modification wished.

Note : maybe this thread would be more appropriate in the mod/maps subforums ? What do you think ?

If others that Gandalf wish to give their opinion it will be welcome.

[Gandalf Parker]

Wish_For_Blood_Slaves said:
in my first test of the mega map you provided, Yomi has started across the southwest continent from tien chi (though still its closest on-land neighbor in an east west direction...

and the first war that I happened to partake in.... japan vs. china

also along the northern part of said continent vanhiem is duking it out with nifelhiem.

was this thing planned such that it would be relatively historically accurate?



Thats kewl. But the map I provided does not set the starting positions at all. Everything has its pros and cons (I tend to say that alot) and in this case it means that each restart will give you a very different game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Jack_Trowell said:
Just another thing oh mightly Gandalf, Lord of Eternal Games, Master of Randomness, do you think that extending my perl conversion is useful ?



Totally. Perl is also compatable to all three OS's that the game runs on. And its raw script that is fairly easy to read and edit if someone wants to. Even non-programmers can do ok editing a script like that. Im just too lazy to move off of basic to perl. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


I have several plans, such making the random commanders depend on the province type(s) (for exemple no random commander and units drowning in a sea province, and thematically appropriate monsters in forests/moutains, maybe an increased chance of lootable treasures in caves (more commanders and monsters with magic items), ...

But for such a project, I would need to parse the complete unit list and choose wich units could go to wich terrain type, and others hings like that.



Been there. But the bit-math for terrains was a headache. Also logical placements needs a database. I think there are threads in the Dom2 forum where I asked if someone would be interested in going thru all of the monsters/units and assigning tags for terrain and types (woodland, avian, winged, and commander for instance). I started too but like most of my projects it nevr got finished.


It's not the programming by itself that worry me, it's the time to process the huge amount of raw data in dom3.


I can provide a raw list from the game, such as all units. But its just name and number, no data.


Note : maybe this thread would be more appropriate in the mod/maps subforums ? What do you think ?


Its ok that it started here but splitting it would be good if you want to continue the project. I tend to leave the players comments here and pursue the planning stuff in the mod/map forum. By the way, you might take a look at
http://www.dom2minions.com/SemiRandom.shtml
Or actually any of the dropped projects at
http://www.dom2minions.com

Gandalf Parker

[Actuarian]

Gandalf,

I don't think I phrased my last qestion very well. To clarify, I was wondering, for these really big maps, if you change the setting for the supply, resources and gold income levels to something other than 100, and if so, why. Also, what do you generally set the independent province army strength and the magic site frequency to?

I really enjoy your random maps.I'm messing around with one of your tubular maps now. Thank you!

[Gandalf Parker]

I havent tried messing with supply/resource/income settings yet but I do recognize that they have the ability to create a different game with different strategies. I will probably get around to them eventually. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I sometimes set indepts higher. And sometimes even lower (which makes a VERY interesting game on a mega-map).

I do tend to set magic sites higher in my own games. I might eventually get a script done to push the magic sites to the max and beyond (read bit-binary terrain settings and up it on the map).

In case people havent noticed, I have a strong tendency to head off in any direction that the crowd isnt going. With so many options in this game, I get peeved at the impression that certain strategies are game-killers when they tend to be strong strategies only for certain game settings. So I love to explore the options and see if it might make a playable challenge.

[Foodstamp]

I am curious how the late era nations with special dominions perform in your massive single player games. Particularly Ermor and Rlyeh. Does Ermor go nuts? Or on these larger maps do other nations step up later in the game to take them out?

[Gandalf Parker]

In the super-massive test-games using all 79 nations it was Ermor in an early lead but their scales do eventually use up their people once enough ations stop their advance. In mid-game it was Oceania which always took the lead. At the end it was Arcos coming up fast if they had survived that long. I didnt run the Dom3 test games to the end altho I wish I had with at least one. I didnt know Id lose the ability to do those. Of course things vary depending on factors such as who it is that Ermor starts next to, who Arcos starts next to, Abyssia, etc. By the way, the first one out was usually Mictlan because the AI doesnt handle it well. All of this was reported to the devs for consideration.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think I might have found the map I wanted to put extra time into.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/GreatContinent.jpg

Not only is it fairly maze-like, and has 4 oceans which tone-down the abilities of the water nations. But best of all it randomly provided the color of sea borders that I like. I tohught I was going to have to wait for the next patch to get that. So I got my land, water, land border, and water border colors.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think I might have found the map I wanted to put extra time into.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/GreatContinent.jpg

Not only is it fairly maze-like, and has 4 oceans which tone-down the abilities of the water nations. But best of all it randomly provided the color of sea borders that I like. I tohught I was going to have to wait for the next patch to get that. So I got my land, water, land border, and water border colors.

The other maps I was considering are here.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/maxs/keepers/_index.jpg

[alexti]

Maze-like maps are fun, but they unfortunately makes the game against AI much easier.

I was thinking about 4D hyper-cube map with attached opposite side (sorry, can't recall how it is properly called). Idea is that on 3x3x3x3 (81 provinces) hypercube any 2 provinces will be neigbours. On larger one - 4x4x4x4 some pairs won't be neighbours any more, but it will still be very open map. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure how to visualise it in 2D. Ok for 3x3x3x3 map you don't really need anything complex - you just know that everything has a common border. But figuring out what borders and what not on 2D visualisation of 4x4x4x4 hypercube is non-trivial and '8' won't help much because there will be so many edges indicating connections http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

You want an insane game against the AI? Try the game at the beginning of this thread
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/MegaMap.zip
with the indepts set to 3 or 1 or even zero. That way the only opponents that the AI will hit are the specials that will grant it extra magical equipment.

[Maltrease]

That is an interesting idea Alex. Even a map with say 60 provences where every provence connects to every other one would be interesting.

Or something like each capital connects to every other provence, but capitals are not connected, and individual provences are not connected to other individual provences.

[Shovah32]

That type would kind of make rushes a little too strong, being able to hit any other capitol as soon as you conquer 1 indy provinces(the sort of resources capitols could pull in would also be insane).

[Maltrease]

It would certainly be a very different game and would definitely need to play with balanced nations (all good rushers or all bad). What would be interesting is no provence would every be "safe". So you probably could not expand that fast or someone else can just snatch each provence away from you again. High PD could be extremely usefull (along with your regular force).

[Maltrease]

Here is another idea. Although this would be much better for a MP game instead of AI.

A map like this (see attachement) could be built for any number of players. Basically a spoke wheel of sorts. Each player will have only have direct contact with 2 other player. You could have any number of provences between the players, and on the inner wheel. The center provence should be guarded by an insanely powerful group of Indies with commanders able to withstand most remote attack spells. Also load it up with powerful magic sites (50% off spell cost site). Make the 2-3 provences near the center also guarded by powerful indies in each spoke, to make it difficult for a flying race to hop over them.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think there are some Spirograph programs out there that can help you create maps like that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Taqwus]

Problem with the 'guardian monster' concept is that currently, they don't. You can even let them automatically replenish forces (via Soul Contracts for free devils, for instance; or maybe one of the freespawning pretender types?) but they won't stop a Black Servant from sitting around with a Bane Venom Charm, or catch the massed Valkyries led by a Dis.

It'd also be useful for various map concepts if independents patrolled; perhaps even more interesting if some areas could be designated as 'no-teleport' zones or 'cannot fly into here' (cave provinces in general?). An underworld where you -must- fight you way through the hard way, because your mages don't know the precise locations and therefore can't teleport there, or where if you're going to be sneaking you risk being caught -- that'd be fun.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive asked for independent patrols for a long LONG time. Randomizing maps would me much more interesting. Right now I can scatter forts and labs and temples around the map but the indepts dont seen to use them. And a fort is just a freeby if even a scout can take the province because everyone is inside the fort.

[alexti]

Shovah32 said:
That type would kind of make rushes a little too strong, being able to hit any other capitol as soon as you conquer 1 indy provinces(the sort of resources capitols could pull in would also be insane).


I was thinking about such map for SP - primarily to make the game more challenging by making it easier for multiple AI nations to attack you early in the game.

[aku666]

Just to make you know, I've tried to start new game with your map. The generation took 30 minutes, I lost my patience and killed the process (maybe it hanged or something, you never know). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
But your script is very useful, thanks! I'm using it on smaller maps which my PC can handle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that part of the problem is when I added commanders. If I had randomly selected equipment from a list and given it to them, it would make a game quicker. But I added the command and added a line for the game to generate random equipment. Thats alot of extra thinking when its creating the game. Good for replayability but rough on creation.

The problem with adding specifics is the same as my problem with adding logical commands (not putting water commanders on a land province etc etc), or logical magic sites, or matching additional units to the poptype of that province.
Answer: Im too lazy.

Im too lazy to build a database (or spreadsheet) of all the possiblities and matching them to the logical uses of them. I COULD easily pull a list of everything in the game and pull randomly from that... hmmmm..... equal chance of getting the stupid exploding amulet or getting the paladins sunsword. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif That might be fun.

[Jack_Trowell]

@Gandalf : if you can make such a list, even a small exemple of preset provinces/commanders, I can start using them for semi-random provinces with my application

Note that a first version is now available online (the perl source code is available for download) at http://dominions.realites.org/

[Gandalf Parker]

#landname "HarpaKazi"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"
#commander "Black Harpy"
#additem "Medallion of Vengeance"

#landname "BlackWood Forest"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Black Bow"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Black Bow"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Black Bow"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Black Bow"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Black Bow"

#landname "Forest of Shafts"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Bow of War"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Bow of War"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Bow of War"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Bow of War"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Bow of War"
#commander "Centaur Hierophant"
#additem "Bow of War"

[Jack_Trowell]

Thanks for your exemples, I will use them in my next version with semi-random provinces

Note : no special (known)features for those provinces ?

Or maybe I can use them with my "greater manysites" option (instead of using the random commanders), so you know that thos province have a greater chance of having magic sites.

hum, ... I might also use the special unused terrain types too.

[Gandalf Parker]

Unused terrain types? Which ones are unused?

Isnt there a site that grants recruiting centaurs? I was looking for it but didnt find it quickly so I gave up.

I also had sites that mixed many different avians, one that was built around dragons, a "lost villiage" that had been taken over by werewolves (***** queen, shapeshifters, and wolves), and another lost village that had become vampires. I was going to set the poptype on the villages to something basically villager so that it seemed once you killed off the weres or vamps you had "returned" the village back to normal. Its too bad that there is no description for provinces but maybe if the were/vamp leaders were named something like Village Elder Mason and Mrs Mason.

By the way, be sure to do this only for fun. I know of at least two other people who are at the same point in doing it codewise, and I see rumblings of a possible official version (some of my favorite Dom2 projects got knocked out by official versions). Nothing openly announced though.

Gandalf Parker

[Jack_Trowell]

Gandalf Parker said:
Unused terrain types? Which ones are unused?



you know, "firesite", "deathsite", ... as per http://www.dom3minions.com/docs/terrain_math.txt



Isnt there a site that grants recruiting centaurs? I was looking for it but didnt find it quickly so I gave up.



It's exactly what I need and that I don't have the time to search for. That's why I made a request in the map/mod forum



I also had sites that mixed many different avians, one that was built around dragons, a "lost villiage" that had been taken over by werewolves (***** queen, shapeshifters, and wolves), and another lost village that had become vampires. I was going to set the poptype on the villages to something basically villager so that it seemed once you killed off the weres or vamps you had "returned" the village back to normal. Its too bad that there is no description for provinces but maybe if the were/vamp leaders were named something like Village Elder Mason and Mrs Mason.




Yes, and it would be easy to have a small known site (a mine maybe) as a reward for returning the village to normal.



By the way, be sure to do this only for fun. I know of at least two other people who are at the same point in doing it codewise, and I see rumblings of a possible official version (some of my favorite Dom2 projects got knocked out by official versions). Nothing openly announced though.

Gandalf Parker




At worst the scripts themselves will became redundants, but not the main function library that will always find other usages, that's why I started with it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not sure that those terrains are unused. They do show up in the generated maps, and I think they are supposed to affect the type of random sites that appear. Has anyone tested to see if they arent recognized by the game. Or they might be for the upcoming province project. But in any case, they would be good for recognition purposes.

Also; islands, lakes, peninsulas, lone mountains, caves (even if not marked as caves), multiprovince farmlands and swamps, valleys, and mega-connection locations. I had finally gotten the DomMap map generator for Dom2 to recognize some of those so I could program logical province names but the Dom3 generator kindof killed that project.

[Theonlystd]

Hey Gandalf dont suppose you could make a maps with those scripts but not quite as big. And Slightly bigger than the pokeeye ones. You know 500 Range or so =p


If you could id love yea a long time and stuff. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[jutetrea]

Great thread, tons of good ideas. Wish I could code my way out of a paper bag.

Anyway, didn't someone mention previously a desire for timed events? i.e. turn 10 x1 occurs, turn 20 x2 occurs, etc? Any progress on that front? Would make scenario building a real possibility?

Even a simpler method - take those "caspur found the deepest cave, vamp count attacks, knights attack, barbs attack" and pre-set a bunch of those to occur first turn - with custom heroes... for example - the five heroes want to free your nation, or bogus attacks, etc.

Going to try out the poke the eye out map (like my maps to be done in 2 or 3 longish sittings).

Just have to say thanks for all the effort!

[Jack_Trowell]

You can use my online tool at http://dominions.realites.org/ to add random stuff on any existing map file.

Just create a random map that looks fine to you, and upload the .map file with the randomize and/or freater manysites options checked.

Then save the results as a new .map file in your /maps directory, and launch the game.

[reverend]

I've been trying to start a game on the MegaMap. So far, I had no luck. It seems that the creation process simply grinds to a halt, fortunately, except for the game hanging, nothing else happens.

My specs are a 'lowly' 2.6 P4 with 1 Gig RAM.

I tried generating without any AI first, so that SHOULD lessen the load a bit. Still, after 10-15 minutes, the computer is still creating the world.

Is there an easy way to maybe generate the game in textmode, so it cuts back on CPU usage?

[jutetrea]

Been playing the poke in the eye map, love it.

One thing I wish - mobs/pretenders were categorized. i.e. militia - mid infantry = lvl 0, cav and some specials = lvl 2, mages = lvl 3, nasty mobs = lvl 4, pretenders = lvl 5...or something similar depending on difficulty. Then have lvl 4s and 5s just be commanders, with the rest being troops. Make sense?

Love the idea, love the randomness, love starting out with a free commander/stuff (I like it as an RPG as well, very commander concentrated - most of the fun for me). With that being said, its kind of silly when i start with a troop of horrors or a troop of melee pretenders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Or face them for that matter. I spent like 2 hours just re-creating games to see some combinations, some were super weak (mages w/o magic, some were unreal (20 free horrors/gatekeepers), and some just wierd (20 baphomats - immobile).

I tried Jack's tool once, and will be testing further. Is there a way to simulate the free commander/troops on yours Jack?

Speaking of re-creating games - is there anyway to just "re-create game" with all the same settings? Or to have a standard settings file that you can choose? For instance, I hate starting in the midst of a map and will recreate till I get near an edge (my form of cheating), but while its still only a 2 minute process to start up a new game it gets old. Any thoughts?

[Gandalf Parker]

At the moment those routines choose a random number from zero to the highest numbered unit in the game. It then makes that unit a commander, then selects another random number for what unit will be some bodyguards, and another random number for what is troops. The units in the game are not organized in any way that lets me easily select units that are leaders, or pretenders, or mages, or even water/land so the results are totally random. Anything can be a leader, anything can be a bodyguard, anything a troop, and if they drown in the first turn of the game then oh well.

To do more logical assignments, someone would need to go thru all the units in the game and make a text file of which are which so that my routines could select from it. Ive asked for it before but no one has done one.

[jutetrea]

hmm, bummer. Hopefully it will eventually come out, fun though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Gotta be unfair when i get 20 giants and a free bow of war and the AI gets a suped up mage with a slave collar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Other way around too, but then i just reload!

[Jack_Trowell]

jutetrea said:
Been playing the poke in the eye map, love it.

One thing I wish - mobs/pretenders were categorized. i.e. militia - mid infantry = lvl 0, cav and some specials = lvl 2, mages = lvl 3, nasty mobs = lvl 4, pretenders = lvl 5...or something similar depending on difficulty. Then have lvl 4s and 5s just be commanders, with the rest being troops. Make sense?




I'm waiting for Edi to complete its unit DB. With it I will be able to add many more options to my randomizer, and use appropriate units depending on the province type



Love the idea, love the randomness, love starting out with a free commander/stuff (I like it as an RPG as well, very commander concentrated - most of the fun for me). With that being said, its kind of silly when i start with a troop of horrors or a troop of melee pretenders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Or face them for that matter. I spent like 2 hours just re-creating games to see some combinations, some were super weak (mages w/o magic, some were unreal (20 free horrors/gatekeepers), and some just wierd (20 baphomats - immobile).

I tried Jack's tool once, and will be testing further. Is there a way to simulate the free commander/troops on yours Jack?




As dom3 works, if you start in a province where specific units/commanders have been added, you get them.

The "No start in edited provinces" option of my randomizer is there to prevent this to happen, in order to preserve some balance.

If you want sometimes to have additionnal units at the start of the game, just uncheck this option.

Of course if you start in a province with no units added it won't change anything, but you can also start with a mictlan Priest King and 5 Sun priest as units (perfect to start a blood economy when you start using "gift of reason" on them, it happened to me once)



Speaking of re-creating games - is there anyway to just "re-create game" with all the same settings? Or to have a standard settings file that you can choose? For instance, I hate starting in the midst of a map and will recreate till I get near an edge (my form of cheating), but while its still only a 2 minute process to start up a new game it gets old. Any thoughts?



You can use the official map editor, or my online map editor, to add the "nostart" attribute to provinces you don't want to start in.

It is also possible to specify a province as starting point, but my map editor doesn't has this feature yet, you have to edit the map file manually for now

[Gandalf Parker]

This seemed the only appropriate thread for this. Two ideas came to me as I was nodding off to sleep. I had to up and make notes. Both of these are MAP commands (of course). Adding them to a map in order to get a very different game out of it.

The first idea is add a Wandering Monster (on a timer)
#computerplayer 79 4
#god 79 "Eater of the Dead"

This should put in an AI nation with lots of population and an Eater of the Dead which will start out in a tamed form. Once it eats enough of the populace it will break out across the map. Since its a nation in the game, every time you play the map it will be randomly located someplace.

Maybe also set scales and give it a strong dominion. Im not sure how that might affect things but it sounds like fun. Putting in a bunch of ally commands might also make it not attack AI's.

Other options for the monster might be Eater of Dreams, Eater of Gods, Hunter of Heroes but Im not sure what those are and how they operate.

[Gandalf Parker]

The next idea is NOT No-Indepts maps.

I can see the advantages of no-indepts in improving the AI. It removes all of the recruitable dependents from the game, but leaves the defenders so that you do have to fight your way across the map. I must admit that on really large maps the MicroManagement can get extreme later in the game. I try to make the best use of everything available to me but I cant remember them all.

So the idea is this...
I can write another one of my stupid little basic programs which will count sequentially thru the number of provinces on a large map. On each one it can randomly decide whether to remove the ability to recruit independents there. Im thinking that I would leave about 1 out of every 10 provinces.

That way I can still get some recruitables. But they would be more precious (and memorable). Of course the AI would also get them but I figure it would still limit its ability to use funds so it should still get more national units than the vanilla game. It will also help solve the problem of the AI having too much money and building tons of castles.

Im also thinking that I should drop a +resource site in each one. Each one that gets left with recruits? Or each one that gets it removed? It would boost the AIs resources at castles which should increase the AIs recruitment of elites.

One disadvantage is that in replayability. Whenever you replay the map, the game WILL re-randomize which independents are in a province, but not where. So eventaully you will have a feel for which provinces will or wont have recruitables. It would affect decisions. Of course hopefully, like with any of my programs, I will eventually setup something on the Dom3Minions site to re-randomize the .map file for a map like this and zip it up each day.

[jutetrea]

Both ideas sound pretty nice.

Can the partial no-indy maps just be done on a percentage as via Bal's program?

ex.
Mountains 10%
Plains 10%
Indy's 20% (unsure how the program works, but possibly relate the slider to a % in the script/map command?)

Big nasty god nation could even be expanded - small principalities of 1 province with VERY limited resources derived from special sites.

Pick 10-20 themed sites (vale of horrors, troll recruiting, shadow seers, etc), call them a nation, give em a themed god and let em go. They won't get far as they'll be severely handicapped, but that's actually fine. They'll be able to respond a bit more then indy's but much less then a full fledged nation since they'll be limited on site income/mages/scales/dominion.

Obviously eater of the dead is the best choice as it has its own mini-AI, but the others might work as well.

Big question - can this be done dynamically a la randomizer without messing up available nation #'s and max nations? So I guess another questions: can you randomize nations ala provinces a la map commands?

@1 Province
province name
province name
province name

@1 nation name
nation name
nation name
nation name

@1 Nation #
77
78
79


@1 God
Eater of dead
Lord of night
Eater of Gods
etc

@1 scales
beneficial scale settings
negative scale settings
neutral scale settings

@1 paths
Rainbow
Bless 1
Bless 2
Bless 3

@3 sites

@1 Indy type
@4 starting items
@5 allies

[Gandalf Parker]

Wow I am embarrased.
I started the SemiRandom project, and you have got it licked much better than I do.

As far as I can tell, all of what you said is very possible. But you would probably have to bounce it off of Ballbarian to be sure.

Having indys as a percentage on the mapgen part of Ballbarians program should be very easy, and probably a great idea.

The creative use of the @ code is great but it looks abit overdone. If the nation numbers and monster-gods are both random then you have a chance of overwriting one you just did. Setting it to 79 (the highest number available and most unlikely to be used by Kristoffer any time soon). Also, as much as I love randoms in every project I do, I think it gets away from the purpose of the SemiRandom project if we dont try to create one really good surprise rather than all options as randoms.

Im leary of getting into details and tempting in one of the experts to tell me that I totally dont understand Eater of the Dead... but Im thinking
10 dominion
3 Death scales
3 ant-magic
3 anti-luck

[Gandalf Parker]

#war <nation> <nation>
I ran across NT Jedi's request in the Mapper Wishlist to have the opposite of #ally by being able to create an automatic war between two nations. (AI's only)

My brain farted out that I can drop an army belonging to nation1 into the home province of nation2. Or give them each a province next door to the other. Or even a bunch of scouts I think will serve the need. Im not sure but I THINK that once a war is started by the AI, it stays started?

As an interesting sidenote, I have accidentally mistyped the nation number for an added army which created situations where one nations capital starts off being sieged by another nation. I havent come up with a scenario for that but maybe someone else will.

Edit:
One thought maybe using the "Special Monsters" nations number to create a "Arcos has come under siege by horrors. Rush to their aid."

Edit2:
Or how about victory points in each capital. And a scenario of "Lanka is going to WIN! Lanka has a large sieging force in every capital except yours. You must rush to save as many as possible for if Lanka gains them then you cannot survive."

Edit3:
This is getting nuts. I need to quit. Anyway, how about an MP game where a large standardized army of knights and bowmen is dropped into everyones capital and randomly assigned to one of the other players. Everyone starts out under seige by someone else.

[Edratman]

I have an idea to make a semi-no-independents game. I cannot code it, but I think it will woek.

1. Create 2 or 3 new nations comprised of independents. These nations would have no mages or blessed troops. All they could do is recruit archers, infantry, cavalry, mundane commanders. Call these "Mundane Nations"
2. Give the nations a starting troop strength of several commanders, heavy infantry, archers, in adequate strength to represent level 5 to 9 indy starting strength.
3. Set up the nations so that they do not start with a castle.
4. Here is the part I do not know how to do. If for example you have a 100 province map and are using 10 DOM3 nations you would set up 70 of these "mundane nations" as additional opponents. That would randomize the remaining 20 provinces with recruitable independents and you would not be able to recruit the national troops of the "Mundane Nations". The starting provinces would also always be randomized if someone can figure out if this works.

The big problem that I don't know how to get around is how to setup the same nation multiple times.

[Gandalf Parker]

You can create a castled province which is owned by independents (nation 23). You can create as many of those as you wish. But like independents, they will not break out of that province.

You can also create fully AI nations by using the empty nation slots. at the moment those are 70-79

And, now that I think of it...
The max number of nations is 80. It seems as though you could use as many of those as you want. Either as they are, or rebuilt.

[lch]

Edratman said:
The big problem that I don't know how to get around is how to setup the same nation multiple times.


You just copy and paste the code for the nation and change the nation number accordingly. You won't run into the usual troubles with the descriptions or icons that mod nations have, since you're going to use stock units only.