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DrPraetorious
January 13th, 2007, 12:49 PM
0. Signing up!
If you want to play, leave a message to that effect in the thread, or send me a PM, or both. When the maps are ready, the first thing to do will be to pick your 9 favorite nations from the EA, in descending order. Be sure to pick TWO ocean nations and SEVEN land nations, since there is a chance the map will have two ocean start sites on it (I think the maps will have either two or none.)

1. Qualifying rounds, nation selection
Three rounds of qualifications, with victory point accumulation - one VP in each capital, two VP in each "treasure province" (see maps, below).
Each of the three rounds will be played in a different age - each player will rank their nation preferences in descending order (and in secret!) for each age. The players are then awarded their highest-ranked remaining, allowed choice, one at a time, in random order in the first round - in subsequent rounds/ages, those who were forced to take lower-ranked picks automatically pick before those who got their first choice in the first round.

Water nations will only be allowed if the random map (see maps, below) happens to have enough water start sites.

Anyone who stales more than *once* gets set to computer, automatically, and earns no VP that round. The time limits will be fairly long and somewhat flexible, however (anyone who has been in one of my games knows I always try to make sure no-one stales.)

2. Advancement to playoff game(s)
Anyone who *wins* a qualifying game goes to the playoff game(s).

If there are slots left over (either on purpose, or because the same player won a game in more than one round), they will be awarded as wildcards among the losers^H^H^H^H^H^Hnon-winners, according to total VP accumulated among all three games.
-- note: does this encourage turtling too much?

The age in which a playoff game is played is determined thusly - sum the VP earned by each participant in the qualifying game played in each age. Highest total VP is the age for that playoff game. If there is more than one playoff game, I'll assign players on 3 criteria:
1. Players who have never faced eachother will all meet in the playoff, if that is possible.
2. Remaining slots will be assigned by seed - with highest seed playing lowest seed, etc.

In the playoff rounds, nation selection priority is given by seed - highest total VP earned gets first choice in every playoff game - again, nation selection "ballots" are secret.
If there is more than one playoff game, the winners (and probably 2nd placers) will play a championship game.

3. Game settings
Qualifying games - renaming on, all other settings default.
Playoff games - renaming on, three provinces to start, all other settings default.
-- EDITED --

4. Maps
Obviously the game has a significant element of chance to it - which I regard as essential in any decent game (the ability to anticipate, prepare for and/or exploit the unexpected is a profound skill) - but early setbacks, especially a lousy start, have a cumulative effect on the course of the entire game.
The maps will be randomly-generated, wrap-around maps supplied by Paradox Bringer's random map generator, when he's willing to release it to the public.
Each map will have as close to 7 start locations as is possible given participation level (this means slightly under half the players will advance to the playoffs.)
Each start location will have at least 5 neighbors, not counting sea, swamp or waste provinces. For sea start locations, deep sea neighbors will not count, and no more than 2 neighbors will be land provinces.
There will be at least three provinces separating any pair of start sites.
All start-location neighbors will be large, site-rich provinces.
Each map will also have "treasure" provinces, likewise separated by 3 provinces from all start locations and from all other treasure provinces. One province lakes and islands have priority as selection as treasure provinces - other provinces are selected if they have few total neighbors.
Number of treasure provinces will vary, but approximately equal in number to the start sites.
The treasure provinces will have fixed names, drawn from my list of 64 pre-configured treasure provinces, which will be available for everyone to look at, so once you know the name of a treasure province you'll also know exactly what guards it.

5. House rules / mods
NONE! Play triple bless vanheim to your little black heart's content.
Since this is supposed to be a tournament of skill in the game-as-shipped, I won't be using any balancing mods.
I will use the latest official patch and I will install any official patches immediately upon release.

---
Did I miss anything? Any suggestions?

Does anyone think this is less than scrupulously fair?

If you'd be interested in *playing* in such a tournament, let me know.

Baalz
January 13th, 2007, 02:16 PM
Heh, I'm guessing people who aren't interested won't be voting much, so the poll will probably be mostly people saying hells yeah.

Where do I sign up?

Tyrant
January 13th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Might need some diplo rules, possibly along the lines of No Alliances.

solo
January 13th, 2007, 02:56 PM
Sounds like fun. I'll play.

Twan
January 13th, 2007, 02:57 PM
Me too.

Foodstamp
January 13th, 2007, 02:58 PM
I just hope the desire to be number one does not produce cheaters.

DrPraetorious
January 13th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Sign up by replying to the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. If you want, you can send me a PM with your prioritized list of nation picks for age 1 - if you can attach it as a .txt file I can make sure not to look at it. Use at least the first three letters of the nation name, or the nation number (your choice). For example:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
nief
arc
saur
lanka
aby
erm
r'lyeh
</pre><hr />

Make at least 7 selections. The maps will probably have 7 land starts and 2 sea starts - and 7 start locations will be used - but I might decide to have 7 starts, and if any of them are sea people will be forced to take sea positions. Thoughts?

Title the file yournick_1.txt

Unfortunately, there isn't really any way to enforce a "no alliances" rule - and it raises the question of what exactly qualifies as an "alliance".

I'd consider a rule that no-one is allowed to send gold, gems or magic items to anyone else. Actually, if there were an option to prevent players from trading, I'd set it. An honor system is great, but making it impossible to cheat is much preferable.

I will say - no *prior* alliances.

Sir_Dr_D
January 13th, 2007, 05:10 PM
I am interested. But Iw ouldl ike tomake the folowing comments

1) I don't like that idea of setting random events down to rare. This will garantee everyone will pick misfortune 3. Could you not instead increase the number of starting provinces, so a bad luck event at the beginning is easier to recover from?

2)i take it the map size is large enough such that early bless rush strategies are balanced out? Things would be unfair otherwise.

3) Since this is a skill contest, a person should be able to play any nation. I would much prefer that random nations are used.

4) If you want a no alliance rule, you could always say that no messages are allowed to be sent at all.

Teraswaerto
January 13th, 2007, 05:19 PM
There is no way to stop people from sending messages. Rules that can't be enforced should be avoided.

DrPraetorious
January 13th, 2007, 05:45 PM
On reflection, I agree with Teraswaerto - if a "no messages" setting appears in the next patch, I will set it.

Okay - in the playoff round, random events will remain common, but each player will begin with 3 provinces. That seems like it would buffer bad events somewhat but still allow SC pretenders their place (which is the problem with multi-province starts.)

The number of start locations and the distance between them will tend to restrict maps to 200 provinces+, depending on how mountainous they are, etc. That's somewhere between a "medium" and "large" random map.

I'm not doing random nations. I don't want to start a flamewar over it, but I think that tests breadth of familiarity with the game nations, rather than skill as such. Put another way - I expect people to bring strategies they've tried and tested in other MP games and try them out on eachother, which you can't generally do if you're handed a nation you haven't played much.

However, I think a skilled player should have a winning strategy worked out with at least a few of the nations in each period, so that's what I'm requiring. It is entirely possible that no-one will choose Bandar Log - fine, that is acceptable. To an extent, this will also have the benefit of creating a "strongest nation" poll for each era.

Gandalf Parker
January 13th, 2007, 08:23 PM
People will still end up using email, irc, PMs on this forum, etc.

One of the things I was considering was creating a game on my server and doing "blind emails". Such as creating accounts for Man, Ulm, Ermor, etc on my server and watching the email traffic for violations such as setting up a way to converse outside of those emails. But it seemed more trouble than its worth.

DrPraetorious
January 13th, 2007, 08:25 PM
Yeah, but you could conceivably prevent people from sending gems, etc. I'm not sure how much this would do to prevent people from forming alliances - okay, I'm sure it wouldn't prevent people from forming alliances. But, if you cannot trade magic items with your allies the benefit is considerably reduced.

Gandalf Parker
January 13th, 2007, 08:47 PM
I wonder if sending gems or equipment shows up in game logs. If it does then at least you would have a way of enforcing the rule.

thraveboy
January 14th, 2007, 03:12 AM
I'm totally in.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Dragonlord
January 14th, 2007, 03:43 AM
I am new to Dom3 and have not done any MP yet. But I have been keeping my eye on this forum because I'd like to get into one of these PBEM games, I used to do them with Space Empires IV (lotsa diplomacy via email) and they were good fun. Maybe this tournament would be a bit much all at once for me to get started? Are the 3 games run in paralel ? How much time in between turns? I work during the week but can manage a turn a day (more so in the early game when turns are simple).

DrPraetorious
January 14th, 2007, 03:51 AM
The three games will not run in parallel, but will probably overlap somewhat.

I'm planning on a host interval of 28 hrs (so every day, with a little wiggle room) once the game gets going, but this sort of thing is up for negotiation.

Certainly inexperienced players can play! Lest any of the veterans should grow complacent, you can take them down a notch! I'll try not to have more than 1 or 2 newbies in any given qualifying game, though.

solo
January 14th, 2007, 12:15 PM
My nation choices are attached here, as I did not see attached files as a PM option.

Evilhomer
January 14th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Sure I'd like to play

DrPraetorious
January 14th, 2007, 12:35 PM
Yeah, okay, post your choices here - and delete the attachment as soon as it has been downloaded once.

--EDIT--

I already made my nation picks so just send them to me as a message and I'll have to trust myself not to change my mind.

FrankTrollman
January 14th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Deleted.

DrPraetorious
January 14th, 2007, 01:29 PM
Okay - somebody has spied on solo's nation selections, since I've downloaded the attachment twice and it has been downloaded a total of four times. Is there any way to find out who it was?

Twan
January 14th, 2007, 01:29 PM
I tend to agree with Frank (even if I don't think there will be preformed teams of cheaters for a little tournament in this small community, it's always possible). Anyway diplomacy and trade are a part of normal mp games, and if the tournament want to measure somehow the skill for mp games they should be in.

The only problem possible is : already qualified players helping one of their former allies in the next qualification match (ie : someone win in EA with the support of another player then help him in MA). If the number of players is sufficient this can be avoided by making sure the same players never replay together before playoffs ; if the number is not sufficient it's harder to avoid (except if matchs are played one after another and the winner don't replay before playoff or if only the final total number of vp count for qualification).

Meglobob
January 14th, 2007, 01:45 PM
DrPraetorious said:
Okay - somebody has spied on solo's nation selections, since I've downloaded the attachment twice and it has been downloaded a total of four times. Is there any way to find out who it was?



I clicked on the attachment, I did not know you were'nt supposed too, not read through the entire thread. It does not matter, as I will not be able to join any tournament games, not enough free time, in too many MP's at the mo. Good idea thou.

DrPraetorious
January 14th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Oh, okay. False alarm, then.

solo
January 14th, 2007, 01:57 PM
DrPraetorious said:
Okay - somebody has spied on solo's nation selections, since I've downloaded the attachment twice and it has been downloaded a total of four times. Is there any way to find out who it was?



It doesn't matter to me if anyone sees my choices.

I also agree with Frank Trollman about allowing diplomacy.

As for possible cheating, I've noticed in other MP games that I play, that sooner or later cheaters slip up and are identified. After that they are shunned by the playing community, a well earned reward.

Gandalf Parker
January 14th, 2007, 03:38 PM
The only way to check such things would be if it was offered for download someplace that you have log file access. Such as putting it on a personal webpage or off of a server like mine.

Also, keep in mind, especially with a pbem game that some people like to play from multiple machines so they might download it to their desktop, and to their machine at work, and to their laptop.

Tyrant
January 14th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Twan said:
The only problem possible is : already qualified players helping one of their former allies in the next qualification match (ie : someone win in EA with the support of another player then help him in MA).



This was the issue that motivated my original comment. It seems like this would be a fairly easy thing to spot if someone did it, but what could be done? No way to prove it really, and what would the correction be anyway? As Twan said, the Dom community is a generally sporting bunch ('cept for the pathetic scumbag Norfleet) and i expect it'll be ok as long as this is either explicitly allowed or outlawed.

One other thought on organization, since this intended to be competitive ,it might be better to host on a fixed time schedule (ie M,T,W at 8 pm) to aviod stale turns. I'm pretty sure i've never played a long net game without a stale turn, and it usually happens because i didn't notice a game QH'ed unusually quickly. ( i sure miss God's Eye).

Will you allow players to join one qualifiing game instead of the full three? I'd like to play, but i'm over commited on the Dom3 already.(OT- the juiced economy in your Orania game was a bad plan, i don't finish turns anymore, i just stop) I suppose i could join all three, concentrate on whichever one went best and tank the other two, but that seems a bit cheesy.

And finally, thanks for both doing this and for all your hosting Dr P!

Ironhawk
January 14th, 2007, 04:38 PM
DrPraetorious said:
Okay - in the playoff round, random events will remain common, but each player will begin with 3 provinces. That seems like it would buffer bad events somewhat but still allow SC pretenders their place (which is the problem with multi-province starts.)



This setup favors using Misfortune as a point mine. If I know that there is only a 33% chance of my capital getting hit by a bad event in the first few turns, instead of a 100% chance, then I will be much more likely to use Misfortune. After all, once your empire expands beyond say 10 provs, misfortune isnt nearly as crippling as it should be, anymore.

I understand that the intent here is to protect regular, non-misfortune players from a crippling event. But the side effect is that it very much favors misfortune abuse.

Dragonlord
January 15th, 2007, 01:06 AM
I agree that diplomacy is important, to me it was often the most fun part of online MP strategy games, but the ones I was in we tended to roleplay all our diplomatic exchanges over email. Is that ever done with dom3?

Also, I have been thinking about favorite nations but do not have that much preference because so far in singleplayer I have only ever used 4 different nations. Why is it supposed to be secret anyway, what your prefs are?

llamabeast
January 15th, 2007, 06:56 AM
I think that diplomacy's one of the most fun parts of MP as well, but if you decided that a tournament should be based strictly on how well players fight and exclude the diplomacy part of the skill, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me either. It might be an interesting change to have no diplomacy options (personally I tend to rather rely on it).

I don't think you need to worry about cheating though. It seems to me that this community is exceptionally fair and mature. If a couple of new people come along with a cheating attitude, they probably won't be as good as the experienced players anyway, and frankly I don't think anyone would try to cheat in the first place. I think just trusting people creates a much nicer atmosphere.

Baalz
January 22nd, 2007, 12:20 AM
When are we looking at getting this started?

DrPraetorious
January 22nd, 2007, 01:26 AM
Probably two weeks from today, since I'm going to Texas this week and then I have a talk to give the week after that.

Fal
January 25th, 2007, 02:03 AM
I am interested in joining too. please sign me up.