Semi-random-map test game - STARTED

[DrPraetorious]

*** GAME INFO ***

IP Address: 160.39.37.111
Port #: 11112
Game name: wrap1_mp
-C --ipadr 160.39.37.111 --port 11112

*** GAME INFO ***

If we can do a little mini-blitz tonight, coo - or we can get a few turns in and see if we can do that over the weekend. Or not. Whatever.

I'll start the game up tonight when I get home - watch this space for IP and port #.

The attached map is a combination of Paradox' random map generator (insert link to thread) and my own balanced start site + semi-random-map generation script.

The majority of the major treasure provinces (cities) and minor treasure provinces that I've actually coded up are found in this map - and in fact those needed a lot of fiddling before they worked remotely like I'd meant them too.

Anyway, the map is ready for play so let's give it a whirl. I'll play niefelheim once more before retiring this build.

There are a total of 8 land start sites, and no water starts. Six of the start sites are on the main continent, 2 are on the secondary island.

There is a lot of water on the map, though, so sailing or strong amphib units will take you a long way.

There are six "cities" worth 1 (in one case, 2) victory point each. They have fortresses in them, and (with the exception of the one worth 2) a large population, so you'll be expected to try and hold them for income before sieging the city itself.

Each city contains a communion of 8 slaves backing up 3 very powerful spellcasters covered with gems, as well as a large army. Expect to take losses while storming the forts for VP.

Other settings - magic sites 55, gold 125, resources 100, supply 125, hall of fame 15, renaming on, victory points accumulate. Other settings standard. The resource reduction is to compensate for the neighbor-rich start positions (which otherwise strongly encourage Sloth.)

There'll be a 36 hr quickhost interval, which will get longer as the game drags on.

This is something a "test run" before I try running a tournament.

Sorry, yes, the game is early era.

I'm going to make some minor adjustments to the map file. The special province #s (which I will post in the thread) will not change, and they're marked on the map anyway with big orange dots and VPs.

TNDP Niefelheim
WSZaboPeter Mictlan
Terrel T'ien Ch'i
Reverend Zombie Yomi
Baalz Lanka
JayThomas Marverni
Ewierl Agartha
FrankTrollman Abyssia

(Alternate, if someone doesn't show):
Amhazair Helheim

That's a full 25% human, for those keeping score at home http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hellboy]

Is this EA? If so, I'd like in as T'ien Ch'i

[WSzaboPeter]

If he is playing Niefelheim, then it must be Early Age.
In that case I would like to try something new. Something I never played before.
So put me to Mictlan, Reign of Blood, with emphasis on the BLOOD part. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
There are six "cities" worth 1 (in one case, 2) victory point each. They have fortresses in them, and (with the exception of the one worth 2) a large population, so you'll be expected to try and hold them for income before sieging the city itself.


Isn't it the case in Dom3 that sieging causes a rapid reduction in supplies and therefor starvation for the beseiged units? I think this could make it pretty easy to starve out tough indies in fortifications (and I believe I have seen this effect in SP).

[WSzaboPeter]

Terrel, you may be right, but then again long lasting sieges will grant the other players chance to take over the "operation" from you. I think this is a lot better then the usual victory point mechanism where you can simply occupy a province.

[DrPraetorious]

Let me run a brief test on that. If it's an issue, I'll hand out cauldrons of broth to the castle defenders.

[Reverend Zombie]

I'd like to give the Oni a whirl, please. What's it called in EA again? Yomi?

[Baalz]

I'd like to give Lanka a try.

[JayThomas]

I haven't played MP yet. If a newbie is OK, I'll try Marverni. Otherwise, I'll wait for the next one.

[Ewierl]

I'd love to come in and give Agartha a whirl! I've done a few (read: 3) MP games before, but all have been email. I'm sure I can figure out this quickhost thing if I try hard, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Amhazair]

And I'll make it 8 with Helheim. I'm not too experienced either, but in the 2 MP's I'm currently in (my first ones) I haven't been drubbed too badly... yet.

[Amhazair]

Damn, it seems I miscounted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Ah, well. Other games will show up. Have fun.

[DrPraetorious]

There's some posting latency - possibly you hadn't seen Frank's post when you replied?

[DrPraetorious]

I accidentally left a mod turned on. Restarting the game - Terrel, could you upload again?

EDIT: never mind, since the game hadn't started there's no problem, I just turned the mod off.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Amhazair]

DrPraetorious said:
There's some posting latency - possibly you hadn't seen Frank's post when you replied?



Actually what happened was I counted the 4 you had already edited into your OP, then counted everyone who had posted after Baalz (including Frank). But Wszabo had posted before Baalz, but hadn't made it into your OP, so I didn't count him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hellboy]

Do we need download the map off the attachment into our maps dir (it sounded like the attached map isn't quite what we're playing w/ anyhow)? Or is it the case that starting a network game downloads the map being used as part of the first turn process?

[DrPraetorious]

You don't need the .map file at all, and indeed, any local copy you had would be ignored.

You would, however, need the .tga file, which is also in the attachment - it should automatically download when you first connect, but sometimes that doesn't work for unknown reasons.

[DrPraetorious]

Does Wszabopeter think I told him not to play? It was a cut and paste-ing error, not deliberate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[WSzaboPeter]

Pretender uploaded. Waiting for host to start. Sorry for delay.

[DrPraetorious]

Started.

[Hellboy]

So, is there any interest in trying to do something of a blitz tonight?

[JayThomas]

I can try. I'll be home from work about 5:30 EST. I can get some turns in during the hockey game.

[DrPraetorious]

I think I set the victory points too high - I'd meant to put VP in all the capitals.

I won't be home tonight until 8PM EST, but when I get back I can certainly do a bunch of turns.

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
I think I set the victory points too high - I'd meant to put VP in all the capitals.

Is this something you can fix on the fly?

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[JayThomas]

Just to ask the question, so I don't screw up, after I took my first turn, the list of nations are displayed. Can I break the game if I select play a turn before everyone has done so?

[Hellboy]

JayThomas said:
Just to ask the question, so I don't screw up, after I took my first turn, the list of nations are displayed. Can I break the game if I select play a turn before everyone has done so?

No, you cannot screw it up in this fashion. In fact, you must play your turn (and everyone else must as well) before quickhost can execute and host the turn early. This is the only way we can "blitz" through these early turns.

[JayThomas]

Another bonehead question. There is a symbol (kind of like a broken chain link) below mine and Yomi's flags. What does this mean.

[Hellboy]

JayThomas said:
Another bonehead question. There is a symbol (kind of like a broken chain link) below mine and Yomi's flags. What does this mean.



That means that both you and the Yomi player (Rev Zombie) are actively connected to the server, at that moment.

I noticed that as well, I don't know exactly what is going on but it appears that Rev Zombie is going for the world record at taking the longest time ever to enter his first turn orders.

[DrPraetorious]

I took a little longer to get home than I had anticipated.

I see only a few people connected - lets see if we can all get back together in 20 minutes (that's 9PM EST).

[Hellboy]

I'll be offline for the next 45min - 1hr. Haven't seen Abysia or Mictlan yet this evening...

[DrPraetorious]

Abyssia checked in - we can try again in an hour, see if WsZabopeter shows up.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, looks like that is not a possibility. How about this - can anyone *not* blitz on Saturday?

[JayThomas]

Yes, I can.

[Ewierl]

My plans on Saturday are unknown; I have no idea. I might have blitz-time in the day/afternoon (EST), but I can't say for sure. As fun as Dominions may be, it isn't the first priority in spending my time... but if I am hanging around at home, I can and will be online for blitzy goodness.

[JayThomas]

I see there is a new patch. Are we going to patch the game before continuing?

[DrPraetorious]

I'm going to patch all the games I'm running this evening. We can host another turn under the current patch or not, whatever is fine.

[DrPraetorious]

Evidently there are some issues with patched players on non-patched servers or somesuch.

So - I've turned QH off, when everyone has sent their turns in I will host manually, then shut the server off and patch. I can't do that until all 3 of my games that I'm hosting are ready, though.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, some people have already patched. I have some work to do and then I'll patch and bring the servers back up. Hopefully the turns taken under the previous patch will still work.

[DrPraetorious]

Server is back up.

[Hellboy]

It's kind of a drag to have all the hall of fame slots blocked up by indies w/ huge exp - I presume that's a result of the tough VP locations?

If it takes past turn 20 for players to make it into the hall of fame (and I'm guessing it will take well past that), it might be good to look for other ways of making those indies hard to beat.

[DrPraetorious]

Yeah, sorry about that, I'd actually meant to lower those XP numbers but then I forgot to incorporate the changes into the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. The XP don't really make a difference anyway, the indies magic greatly outweighs their combat stats.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, Wszabopeter seems to like to play around 6AM (EST), and Rev Zombie around 8PM (EST), which is fine in the long run but not exactly conducive to a blitz tomorrow.

Unless otherwise noted, lets try a blitz at noon EST (that would be 9AM in California?). I have no idea what time that would be wherever Rev Zombie and Wszabo are - if anyone knows they can't make it, post as soon as you know.

Otherwise, watch this space.

[DrPraetorious]

Cool! People are showing up. Hopefully everyone will be here in about an hour and a half.

[Ewierl]

I might be a little late for a noon-EST blitz, because I need to go eat brunch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But I'll be on for blitzing as soon as I get back, which I imagine will be more like 12:30.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay. We'll aim for 12:30 then. That's 1:07 after the timestamp on this message.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, Jay Thomas is not around -.-.

Well, we tried. By next weekend we should get far enough that blitzing won't even be desirable. Sorry we couldn't make that work out.

[JayThomas]

Sorry guys, I missed by 30 minutes. Damn snow blower... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Well, we can give people a few minutes to see if they come back.

[Hellboy]

I think we lost WSZaboPeter (Mictlan), I'll come back w/ some frequency over the weekend, I would be happy if we just got in 2-3 turns/day. If we can still schedule a blitz, I'd be up for that and I'm generally free (outside of superbowl time)

[DrPraetorious]

A new turn is up.

[DrPraetorious]

Another new turn is up.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Hellboy]

So, was that 3 turns today? Pretty good, I say!

BTW, I am with Frank on the general ugliness output by this map generator. I haven't seen enough of it to judge the quality of gameplay on the maps produced, although I also wonder about the lack of mountains.

[DrPraetorious]

PB can fix the lack of mountains easily.

As for ugliness, you guys should take a look at the output on his webpage. He can fill them with sprites but that part wasn't working quite right when this map was generated.

[DrPraetorious]

Waiting on ewierl / Agartha.....

[DrPraetorious]

I'm a little surprised Agartha hasn't been expanding - is he being attacked by someone? I mean, on a map with this much water, I was actually worried that Agartha would just crush us all.

[Hellboy]

Might be worth PM'ing or emailing him. If he is being attacked, the pattern I often saw in games w/ newbies in a losing war was: stale, stale, quit (which is not to say that I have any reason to expect this of Ewierl). I'd hate to see a double stale on 36h QH, especially this early on.

[Hellboy]

OK, guess we can call that egg on my face http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif Sure enough, minutes after I make my post, Ewierl is there submitting his turn. My bad.

[Ewierl]

Sorry folks, was out last night and woke late this morning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I am getting attacked, and by a double-bless Tien Chi; those defense-19 Warriors of the Five Elements are tough for my clumsy old ancient ones to hit! it's slowed my expansion, but I'm not getting crushed quite yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hellboy]

Ewierl said:
Sorry folks, was out last night and woke late this morning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I am getting attacked, and by a double-bless Tien Chi; those defense-19 Warriors of the Five Elements are tough for my clumsy old ancient ones to hit! it's slowed my expansion, but I'm not getting crushed quite yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



No, not nearly so crushed as I expected!! <grrr>

And I can say that I do not have nearly enough of those Warriors of the Five Elements, as everything else I have just melts away in the face of those Ancient Ones.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Ewierl]

Maybe it's just me, but is anyone else having a weird bug on this map/game? I haven't encountered it anywhere else.

Sometimes when I hit Esc to leave a window (or maybe hit it one too many times), everything except the map itself disappears. From then on, hitting Esc just switches back and forth between the map and the wood-panel background. The only way to get out of it seems to be force-quitting and reopening Dominions.

[Baalz]

"You call those demons? I'll show you demons."

The forces of Lanka have fallen on their weaker cousins the Yomi in a bloody confrontation which left many slain. Our band of Palankasha are just too much for the lightly armored Yomi, and after cutting through their masses like a buzzsaw, they surrounded the huge Dai Oni and chopped him into 77 pieces.

Yomi flesh is inedible, but the human bandits which serve them are quite tasty when braised in a light wine sauce. We hunger for more (we do so tire of monkey), and know where you keep them. Expect guests for dinner in your home province shortly.

[Reverend Zombie]

Baalz said:
"You call those demons? I'll show you demons."

The forces of Lanka have fallen on their weaker cousins the Yomi in a bloody confrontation which left many slain. Our band of Palankasha are just too much for the lightly armored Yomi, and after cutting through their masses like a buzzsaw, they surrounded the huge Dai Oni and chopped him into 77 pieces.




Your "victory," if such it was, was pyrhic. Not only did you fail to take the province, but you were left with naught more than a half dozen palankasha.

[Ewierl]

The aggressive humans of T'ien Ch'i are finally pressing towards the home of the peaceful Agarthans... the rest of the world should beware, if they succeed, they will have all of the side island to themselves to grow and fortify and crush the rest of the world at their leisure!

[Hellboy]

Ewierl said:
The aggressive humans of T'ien Ch'i are finally pressing towards the home of the peaceful Agarthans... the rest of the world should beware, if they succeed, they will have all of the side island to themselves to grow and fortify and crush the rest of the world at their leisure!


Peaceful Agarthans??? The people of Arnbeg province simply begged us to come to their rescue, and we could no longer ignore their piteous pleas for assistance. We are merely civilizing this island (and along the way removing these last few holdouts of cavemen we continue to find here and there), for the purposes of making one grand nation of scholars and academics. We have no notions of "crushing the world", that would disturb the meditations of our elderly Celestial Masters - such things are not even conceivable!

[Ewierl]

Do not spread your lies across this world like you have your armies! You could have had half of our island to your peaceful expansion, but instead you chose to storm down my peninsula in search of war.

We hear your chattering armies outside our gates, but we are not beaten yet. You may try to cloak your aggression in evasive little human words, but it will not go unpunished!

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Hellboy]

Ewierl said:
Do not spread your lies across this world like you have your armies! You could have had half of our island to your peaceful expansion, but instead you chose to storm down my peninsula in search of war.

We hear your chattering armies outside our gates, but we are not beaten yet. You may try to cloak your aggression in evasive little human words, but it will not go unpunished!

Ah the nattering of cavemen - does anyone wonder why we took it upon ourselves to civilize this island?

[Hellboy]

Gems for sale! Gems for Sale! Gems for Sale!

We are looking for earth gems, and we have surpluses in astral, nature, air, fire and death.

Let us know (via PM) if you are interested in trading on turn 19 or 20

Pan Taewon,
T'ien Ch'i

[DrPraetorious]

Don't do it! With that island all to himself, T'ien Ch'i is a threat to the entire world, and we need to band together against him!

On that note, I have excess air, water, nature and fire, and I would like earth and astral gems.

I will trade fire for earth at 3:2.

On a related note, we are well on the way to restoring Democracy to the poor towntrodden people of Marverni. After a brief period of transition, the Marverni Provisional Government will be able to take over peacekeeping duties within the Special Administrative Zone.

Long live the Republic! Long live Knife Bright Insight!

[JayThomas]

Yes, going bare chested against the burning ones, not a recipe for success.

This game seems remarkably fast for my first time.

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
Don't do it! With that island all to himself, T'ien Ch'i is a threat to the entire world, and we need to band together against him!



This coming from the land of the ever feared Niefel Jarls. The land that tops the charts for Income, Gem Income and Research (and nearly tops it for province count).

You draw your own conclusions...

[Ewierl]

An island like this one is a very large place to fortify, grow, and send forth flying and underwater Celestials! T'ien Ch'i, for all his lies of peace, has more capacity to rule the waves than anyone else... save perhaps we poor cave folk, but the charts make our plight clear!

[WSzaboPeter]

Anyone wishes to sell some blood slaves, I can and will give gems (1:1 ratio!!!) and/or gold. Thanks a lot in advance.
About the Lanka vs. Yomi war... Well, I would not bet on Lanka's survival.

[Baalz]

Heh, no doubt. That was certainly the fastest I've ever gone from "sitting pretty" to "completely decimated". Immediately after committing all my forces into a struggle with Yomi (after a neat diplomatic feint from Mictlan, and believing that they were more occupied with Abyssia than they were), a massive hoard of savages broke all along our long border screaming for blood. They neatly hamstrung us, cutting off the reinforcements intended to overwhelm the Yomi nation with 2:1 odds. Cleverly destroying several of our smaller armies before they could regroup, a massive Mictlan army is about to storm one castle while the Yomi counterattack (which overwhelmed my now unsupported invading forces) prepares to take another and almost all of our forces have been most heinously slaughtered. Having no chance at this point against either one of the two nations carving up our empire, viceroy AI has been left in charge while I go into hiding in exile.

Good game all, and I look forward to playing again in the future.

[WSzaboPeter]

Well, you made the mistake of having multiple small forces spread across your big(ish) territory. If you have had one or two main strike forces I would have considered to go after some easy pray, since you had 3 forts that time. But this way it was a chance that comes only once in a decade.
Thanks a for the game anyway.

[Hellboy]

Now looking to trade for nature gems: I have astral, fire, limited quantities of air, limited quantities of death

Gem Brokers, Unlimited
T'ien Ch'i

[Ewierl]

Terrel said:
Now looking to trade for nature gems: I have astral, fire, limited quantities of air, limited quantities of death

Gem Brokers, Unlimited
T'ien Ch'i



Give violent humans nothing! They can still be stopped from owning whole island, if other folks not give them what they need!

They in need because siege force all wiped out when try to storm cave castle. We like fight in darkness!

[Baalz]

Yeah, as I mentioned I thought you were tied up with Abyssia (at least briefly), and I was routing everything I had into Yomi to try and press my advantage to bring that to a quick end so I could quickly swing around to move on you. You were too on the ball for that though. You had about a two turn window before my armies would have been built back up and able to repulse you (or at least stall you while my eastern armies finished up Yomi), and you capitalized on it perfectly. Well done!

[DrPraetorious]

Other people should feel free to expand.

Firstly, maerverni is not a strong position in the early game, even in experienced hands. Starting out in between two double-bless face-huggers, you were probably screwed no matter what you did.

But and however, you did make some defensive mistakes -
1) Don't split your army against a stronger opponent. Against a weaker opponent, you can split your army, but against a stronger opponent, it enables me to eat you piecemeal. If this means leaving one border completely undefended, this is what you have to do.

2) You want to fight as close to your capital as possible, so that you've had a few extra turns to reinforce. In fact, you want to make me *siege* your capital with your forces in it.

3) Get useful combat magic as soon as possible. Druids with gifts from heaven probably would not have been enough to save you - but it would have caused me horrific losses, especially in the afformentioned castle siege.

If you were heading for Gifts of Heaven as fast as you could and hadn't reached it yet, you probably should have just retreated. I know that's hard to do being attacked from both sides, though.

In general, I think Marverni is a poor choice for novice players, especially in MP, because you're so vulnerable to the rush. It's very powerful in the mid-game (with the ability to recruit druids everywhere. Aiee!) but the marverni national troops are weak even by human standards, even though they have competitive requisites.

Good game and good luck!

[JayThomas]

Thanks for the sound advice.

I've learned that MP is very different from SP.

It didn't help that my first battle against the independents resulted in 50 out of about 65 casualties. The only guys holding the field were the two commanders. That set me back a bit.

I was still in exploration mode when the south front got attacked. My first battle with the Abysians was both forces unknowingly moving to the same province. The battle was won, but at horrific cost. I was unprepared for that encounter.

I agree though, that I should have pulled everyone to the home castle to at least cause some pain.

BTW, I set Marverni to AI. I have no leaders or money.

Thanks for the game.

[Ewierl]

Okay, that's really odd. And frustrating.

Terrel, read the report from the battle in Tirranea. Then watch the battle, all the way through to the end. My forces actually won the battle, yet the report credits yours with victory in the province. The report's casualty counts appear accurate, but it claims that you held the province while the battle movie shows that you did not do so (and nor was it a double-rout). The strategic map shows a big army there now, as if you hadn't routed at all.

DrPraetorius, is there a turn file you can send in on the bug report thread?

Fighting a losing war can be fun, but the fun seeps out fast when a bug just reverses my successes.

[DrPraetorious]

Ewierl - are you running 3.04?

I'll put the entire game in a .zip - and post it in the bugrep - you can explain the bug in your reply.

[Ewierl]

No, I'm in 3.06. I've added my commentary in the bugrep thread.

Grumble... trying to decide whether or not this has sapped my enthusiasm enough to hand over to the AI. I'll be going away for the weekend regardless, so if I do keep playing, I'll have to make you all wait from Friday night to about Monday midday (eastern US time) regardless.

[Hellboy]

Ewierl said:
Okay, that's really odd. And frustrating.

Terrel, read the report from the battle in Tirranea. Then watch the battle, all the way through to the end. My forces actually won the battle, yet the report credits yours with victory in the province. The report's casualty counts appear accurate, but it claims that you held the province while the battle movie shows that you did not do so (and nor was it a double-rout). The strategic map shows a big army there now, as if you hadn't routed at all.


Sorry it took me so long to reply, I've been locked out of the forum all day today (totally bizarre - I saw nothing but sql errors when I tried to pull up the web page...) Anyhow, things look pretty much as you describe them on my end, as well. The only thing I can say is that I have several times seen odd things that seemed quite inconsistent in the battle replay before, and usually at the end of the battle (I think I've seen commanders disappearing before without any conceivable cause of death).

Anyhow, I'm not trying to paper this over, or anything like that, but the one possible explanation I can think of is that if there is a limited duration for which the battle can last (and I think there is). If there is such a duration, and you did in fact rout me, but the rout was complete on the exact same turn that the duration limit was up, and their rules are such that ties go to the defender, then that might explain all the displays that we both saw.

Regardless of the explanation of this bug/inconsistency, I would say you're putting up an extraordinary fight Ewierl, and through all the mistakes I've made, I've gotta say that I'm really enjoying this war. Hope this bug doesn't leave too much of a sour taste in your mouth!

[Ewierl]

I've seen that time limit hit in vast SP games (usually in SC-vs-army fights), and you get a "X's armies have routed" message for both sides. Besides, it wouldn't explain why your armies didn't move out of the province in either case; a double-rout would've left the province empty, not in your hands!

(And yes, the forum was down for quite a while on Thursday.)

It has been a good war! That's why having it upset by weird game mechanic issues is so frustrating, it's been such a beautiful nonstop skin-of-teeth scrape. I suppose I will stick around, but then you all will have to wait for me over the weekend!

[Ewierl]

Terrel, DrPraetorious, can you go chime in on the bug thread? It seems like it might matter which OS's each of us are running.

[DrPraetorious]

This means I have to admit hosting the game under windows?

[DrPraetorious]

I have to restart my machine.

I'll take another turn in the morning.

[Ewierl]

Bugs aside, I'm going to head off for the weekend later tonight. After then, I won't be playing again until probably Monday afternoon.

Will the game wait for me, or will a turn go stale? This will affect my choices this turn...

[Hellboy]

And I'm going to be gone myself soon after (from the 13th - 15th), I'd vote for waiting, but of course I'm biased

BTW, I no longer live in isolated security - Niefelheim has begun his invasion of TC territory. Looks like the Agarthan quagmire has left me vulnerable to Niefel http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ewierl]

As I just posted you within the game...

The only chance to hold back the giants from the world is to let me recruit my 30-melee-damage seal guards again! My mages and troops are ideally set to fight the Niefel giants... but to do so, you'll have to let me use them!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DrPraetorious]

No-one will stale, I will turn off the host interval tomorrow morning.

[Hellboy]

Ewierl said:
As I just posted you within the game...

The only chance to hold back the giants from the world is to let me recruit my 30-melee-damage seal guards again! My mages and troops are ideally set to fight the Niefel giants... but to do so, you'll have to let me use them!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Hmmm, and all I have to do is allow you to move straight through my territory so you can move forthwith to confront said nasty, evil giants right? Such a deal!

Well, sad to say I have yet to inflict a single casualty upon the Niefelscum, but given what I've seen of your cavemen, I have even less confidence in the chance of their even so much as landing a blow upon these giants! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Our demands:
1) Abyssia should stop interfering with the internal affairs of Marverni, so that we may restore a legitimate democratic government and then withdraw (a timetable for such withdrawl would only embolden the bare chested anarchists.)

2) The vile eunuchs of T'ien Ch'i have overthrown the legitimate Emperor and installed a false and despicable God in his place. Their usual crimes: pederasty, incontinence, sophistry, we need not go into the details, are bad enough. However, the imposition of a false emperor is intolerable to freedom loving giants such as ourselves, and we call upon all the people of T'ien Ch'i to aid us in restoring the rightful Emperor to the jade throne.

Your friend,
Knife Bright Insight,
Iron Lord of the Jotuns

[Ewierl]

Hellboy said:
Hmmm, and all I have to do is allow you to move straight through my territory so you can move forthwith to confront said nasty, evil giants right? Such a deal!

Well, sad to say I have yet to inflict a single casualty upon the Niefelscum, but given what I've seen of your cavemen, I have even less confidence in the chance of their even so much as landing a blow upon these giants! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Nah, we'll even stay on the peninsula if it'd make you feel better! (Besides, don't you need that big army sitting uselessly outside my cave fort for your own defense?) The Niefel giants originally claimed to be sailing to my aid, but their list of crimes and demands conspicuously omits Tien Chi's misdeeds against Agartha; plus, Niefelheim promised specific military aids over the past year but never made good.

Given these facts, we trust Niefel giants no more than we do Tien Chi humans... but we know by now that Tien Chi not scary, but Niefelhim pretty scary! The Emperor has two choices: let us free to recruit and fight, or soon face a war on both fronts...

And worry not, we have a few different tricks up our pale pasty sleeves in case of giants, things not worth doing on little humans but good for softening up bigger mountain giants!

[DrPraetorious]

Abyssia attacked me!

I said that I couldn't guarantee when I'd be able to attack - and even so, I believe that I did launch on schedule.

That said, we are prepared for all of your earth and death tricks, should you wish to tangle.

[Ewierl]

I'm not faulting you for your arrival time, I'm faulting you for never sending me those promised fire gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ewierl]

So, um- who's got Astral magic out there?

Because as long as those giants are recuperating, the rest of us might as well call it quits and go home.

[Hellboy]

I've got my last turn in now, before my trip. I will certainly be able to play again on the morning of the 16th, PST (GMT-8), or perhaps earlier than that.

[Hellboy]

OK, I've seen the enemy, and in my honest opinion, its game over. Dr Praetorious - you play cat and mouse with us. I have not the least, little clue why, with such overwhelming force you have not taken a single VP. Surely you are beyond capable of such, correct?

You far outclass every player in research, and equally outclass us in gem resource to use that research. Now as long as any player thinks they have a chance against him, I'll not quit, but do you Mictlan or Abysia still think you have a chance?

- Hellboy

[DrPraetorious]

Again - I will not allow anyone to stale.

Come on! My giants only have >100 hp in *my dominion*. You guys can totally defeat them.

On the subject of dispeling:
1) Consider dispeling the Gift of Health.
2) Take a gander at the gem income graph.
3) Despair!

Your friend,
Knife Bright Insight
Iron Lord of the Jotuns

[WSzaboPeter]

First of all, I would not call this game as a lost one. I played more defensively in this game, but that is not a sure sign for a lost game. Maybe I lost, but let's wait a few turns please.

[DrPraetorious]

It might *appear* that I am unstoppable, but with powerful magic and good tactics those giants can be taken down.

In fact, it isn't even necesarry for you all to unite against me! If one or two of you ally with me, you have a good chance of taking more provinces and gem income from the enemy (who will understandably be occupied fighting me) than I do, and in this way surpass me in strength.

That said, if it were Niefelheim vs. Everyone Else, I'd almost certainly lose.

I do have the military force to take a VP, but that's a waste of energy at this point, I'm better off attacking other players (which you'll notice is what I'm doing.)

[Hellboy]

WSzaboPeter said:
First of all, I would not call this game as a lost one. I played more defensively in this game, but that is not a sure sign for a lost game. Maybe I lost, but let's wait a few turns please.

Don't get me wrong, I'm having great fun, and I'm in no hurry to quit. I would also say, however, that even though I'm new to Dom3, I know 4X games well enough to know that the economics are exponential, and that means that a snowball past a certain point are in fact unstoppable.

[DrPraetorious]

On that note, starting next turn, I will trade forged items costing water, fire, death or astral gems, for earth gems at cost, assuming I can forge it.

Skull Mentor -- 5 Earth Gems!
Lightless Lantern -- 3 Earth Gems!
Boots of Speed -- 5 Earth Gems!
Starshine Skullcap -- 5 Earth Gems!
Water Bracelet -- 3 Earth Gems!
Moonvine Bracelet -- 11 Earth Gems!
Robe of the Sea -- 8 Earth Gems!
RING OF FRICKIN SORCERY -- 20 Earth Gems! (but not for two more turns)
RING OF FRICKIN WIZARDRY -- 33 Earth Gems! (but not for three more turns)

If I can forge it, and if it only costs FWSD - I will trade it for earth gems! Everything must go! My prices are CRAAAAAZY!

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
That said, if it were Niefelheim vs. Everyone Else, I'd almost certainly lose.



Unlikely, I'd say. But thats just my opinion (which is of course based on what I saw of your spellcasting regime, and thats not including the 20 wizards that are on the way, being just across the channel at the moment).

[DrPraetorious]

Let me put it this way - I've been in a very similar position before, and I've fallen hard, which is one of the reasons that I'm "playing cat and mouse".

I don't want to give anyone ideas, but there are a lot of things you could do to hurt me, slow my research, etc. Of course, I like to think I'm prepared for them but it's never fun to find out that you're not.

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
... I like to think I'm prepared for them but it's never fun to find out that you're not.

Well said, and it is very true that its never fun to find out that you're not!

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[WSzaboPeter]

Oh... Those Jaguars... Now don't tell that the mighty Abyssian empire is afraid of a few overgrown housecats. They must have escaped from the zoo.

[Ewierl]

FrankTrollman said:
given the very large threat that is Niefelheim, why the hell are Agartha and Mictlan invading Abyssia? That makes no sense.



Hey, don't blame me, I took all of one underwater province before stopping!

[FrankTrollman]

I'll also be gone until late on the 16th.

-Frank

[DrPraetorious]

I won't actually let anyone stale - but it'd be nice if T'ien Ch'i could take their turn....

[Ewierl]

DrPraetorious said:

I won't actually let anyone stale - but it'd be nice if T'ien Ch'i could take their turn....



He said he was planning to be away 13th-15th, it'll be another day or two.

[DrPraetorious]

Oh, oops. I was confused about who was playing who.

My bad.

*apologizes*

[Hellboy]

I'm back, turn is in and we're hosting now

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
...

That said, if it were Niefelheim vs. Everyone Else, I'd almost certainly lose.


I know I had responded to this earlier, but I was in a rush as I was running out the door the last time.

Personally, I am highly sceptical about this proposition, I'm no veteran, but I played enough Dom2 games to recognize a competitive end game when I see one, and this game is not that. One thing that marked a competitive end game was globals not staying up. We now have two high powered globals up by Niefelheim; should somebody take the initiative to bring those globals down, I'll become more optimistic.

Anyhow, as I said I'm not running out the door to quit, as I am having fun. It's my guess that the nation best in position to get some victories vs Niefel is Abysia (no offense, Mictlan, but I'm just guessing here anyhow). For everyone other than Dr Praetorious, if you really plan to win this, I think some kind of coordinated action is urgently needed.

[DrPraetorious]

Um..... I disagree!

You should continue to fight eachother. The strongest of you will emerge, strengthened and tempered by the battle, to challenge me. How could I hope to succeed against such a battle-tested foe?

[Ewierl]

FYI folks, I'm going to be away from Saturday evening to Monday evening, so a turn might have to wait for me in that 48hr block. Not too long an absence though. (Big advance warning: middle of March I'll be going away for a week's vacation, no idea if I'll have internet there.)

[DrPraetorious]

Sure sure.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Hellboy]

Abysia, Mictlan, you can thank me later, but did you notice that dip in troop strength on Niefelscum's army size chart? That's TC kicking some serious giant butt, you should know. Sadly, we did not win the battle over our capital, but we did kill 29 of 44 Niefel Giants!

It may be a case of too little to late, but our research is finally sufficient to start getting some use out of our mages (and, yes, Wrath of Ancestors really does work!)

[Ewierl]

It looks like I'm going to be away again for the weekend- friday night to sunday night.

Looks like autohost is off or being circumvented anyways, since I know that host timer was lower last night than this morning! Get in there Hellboy, we're waiting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hellboy]

Ewierl said:
It looks like I'm going to be away again for the weekend- friday night to sunday night.

Looks like autohost is off or being circumvented anyways, since I know that host timer was lower last night than this morning! Get in there Hellboy, we're waiting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Just submitted.

The hosting wasn't delayed for me, was it? I was sure I still had some time left...

[DrPraetorious]

I reset it just in case you missed the deadline, but don't worry about it - it's late enough in the game that I should probably lengthen the host interval anyway.

[Hellboy]

Need cash? Got loose gems hanging around the closet? Then we're your solution! Sell your gems at top price to the Gem Brokers of T'ien Ch'i! Nowhere else can you get cash, no questions asked, all in an instant and at your convenience around the clock!

We offer the following prices on gems:
Water 40g/gem
Nature 35g/gem
Death 35g/gem

Other deals are possible, so if you have gems and you need cash, contact us immediately!

Note:
The prices i'm offering here are the same I offered on the other end of the deal in another game where I was hard up for cash. So, at the very least these prices are fair in the sense that depending on circumstance, I could be happy to be on either end of the deal.

[DrPraetorious]

Sure, I got lots of all those gems. How many do you need?

[DrPraetorious]

My machine restarted itself. I'll bring the server back up shortly and take my turn.

[FrankTrollman]

Server is down.

-Frank

[DrPraetorious]

Oh, oops. Killed the wrong processes.

It's back up again.

[Ewierl]

We folk of Agartha need a Water Bracelet or two. Only one or two, that is all. We will pay 5 gems of any kind except Fire or Air for each, though we will only buy one with Astral or Death. Let us know if you will trade. Yes.

[FrankTrollman]

We'll send you one for free.

All Praise: Hoogla Khan

[DrPraetorious]

Server will be down overnight.

[Hellboy]

Looks like the server is down now...

[DrPraetorious]

I'm running updates.

Frank won't be able to take his turn for a couple of days, he has med school apps.

The server will be back up later this afternoon.

[DrPraetorious]

Server is back up.

[DrPraetorious]

Frank is going to be busy for a while he says. I'll let you guys know when a new turn is ready.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Ewierl]

I don't mind waiting, actually; I'm going to be away all next week (as I warned a while ago). If I'm going to ask people to wait a week for me, I'm more than willing to extend that courtesy to others!

[Mindi]

Some posts have been removed from this thread due to rules violations. Some posts that were in response to the issue have been removed also. Feel free to repost any information that was removed that is not attempting to start a fight (rules violation).

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Gandalf Parker]

What is said can be disagreed with. How its said can be taken offense to.
The concept that "Truth needs no diplomacy" has been tested on these forums in the past and didnt do so well.

[Mindi]

Frank,

"Facts" is a neat term to use but the 'truth' is that everyone sees things from a different viewpoint. Ask any officer who has to interview witnesses of an auto accident. If there are 3 witnesses to the accident there will be 3 differing reports on what the 'facts' were. Typically the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It doesn't mean the 3 people are lying, it just means they each have their own perspective. And you know what, it's perfectly fine to share your perspective as long as you understand that your 'facts' may not be everyone else's 'facts' and that you can disagree in a respectful manner that does not break forum rules.

I know you have been directed to read the board rules on user fighting a couple of times now over this issue, but let me copy and paste it here and highlight the issues since it seems that you cannot or do not see the issue with your posts.

"3) USER FIGHTING:

If you post in this forum, we expect you to contribute positively to a conversation. If you disagree with someone, great, explain your point of view, have an open discussion. Please do not disparage the other person. Personal attacks are unacceptable. They just lower the brow of all involved. If you don't like someone, talk about it on ICQ, MSN, AIM, YIM, your journal, or your blogger, but not here. People who bait or bash members or mods may be banned without notice.

Flaming, humiliating, ridiculing, or belittling other members will not be tolerated. This includes blatant disrespect of others whether it is through negative language or general attitude. We see no difference between straight out calling someone stupid and using creative language and attitude to imply that person is stupid.

Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the board. Trolling could be directed towards one user or a group of users. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion, it only encourages personal attacks (if left unchecked) and will not be tolerated.

If you get out of hand you will be warned, if the negative behavior continues you may be banned. Nobody likes it when this happens, so play nice! What actually constitutes out of hand or negative behavior is at the discretion of the staff. "

At some point, people have to agree to disagree. You and several other members are at that point but yet you do not want to let the issue die. THAT is the problem, I don't want to hear about or read anything on these forums that could even be inferred that you or anyone else is trying to bring up the original issue that started in the other MP thread. These forums are here for everyone's enjoyment and it is my job to make sure that everyone 'plays nice'. Furthermore, Shrapnel Games is not in the business of policing user's multiplayer games or the way they play those games and if that's what you're looking for then it's not going to happen. At some point, continuously bring it up or making 'digs' and references to it becomes trolling and it won't be tolerated. Let it die and move on, I'm sure everyone has better things to do than to fight about this issue when it's obvious all parties feel differently about what the 'facts' are.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[Mindi]

Unfortunately it's a limitation of the current forum software that when you move a post, it moves all replies with it. I moved your post rather than deleting it because there has been questions by you before as to what we objected to and I wanted to have it for reference...it was moved to the moderators area. If you noticed though after I moved it that I invited anyone who had their post caught in the crossfire to the move to repost any info that is not against our forum rules. His statement that he's not continuing playing is not a problem; however, any description of the reason he is not that leads back to this issue would be.

And no, on this forum, if you are trying to create a fire, I am going to remove the embers.

[WSzaboPeter]

Okay... So it's OVER? Thanks for the game anyway.

[Gandalf Parker]

The problem with "say their piece" is that many peope feel it doesnt count unless they get the last say. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

WSZP - if you wish to keep playing, I'll certainly be willing to continue! However, both T'ien Ch'i and Abyssia are going to be set to CPU when I get back home on Monday.

If you want to keep going, though, I'll certainly finish the game.

[JayThomas]

DrP, would it be possible for a substitute? I started this game as Marverni and was out early. I could play alysia since Marverni was just south of them.

[DrPraetorious]

That would be acceptable. I'll sub you in on Monday unless Frank wants to reclaim his position (which is unlikely.)

[Ewierl]

If the game is going to continue, I'll keep playing; I made some fundamental pretender-choice errors, so I don't have much long-term hope, but I am having fun, and actually reclaiming a reasonable position after holding off that bless-rush onslaught forever.

However, keep in mind that late late tonight I head out for a week of vacation! I may not have internet during that time; I can't know in advance. Up to you folks what you want to do; I won't be offended if you'd rather replace me and keep the game running apace.

[DrPraetorious]

I believe that Frank didn't set a password on this game. If you want to try and log in as Abyssia (info is at the head of the thread) and look around, that'd be fine.

If hellboy doesn't log in and change himself to CPU, I can't - I thought I'd set a master password for this game, but when I tried to use it it didn't work.

I'm not at home, though.

[Hellboy]

DrPraetorious said:
If hellboy doesn't log in and change himself to CPU, I can't - I thought I'd set a master password for this game, but when I tried to use it it didn't work.


I haven't set myself to CPU. I can do that for you, if you like, or I can hand off my password to a substitute, if you find one.

[JayThomas]

I was able to get the turn file for abysia.

[FrankTrollman]

JayThomas specifically does not have my permission to take control of my position in any game. He already knows this and is presumably taking Abyssia as a calculated insult.

-Frank

[WSzaboPeter]

DrPraetorious said:
WSZP - if you wish to keep playing, I'll certainly be willing to continue! However, both T'ien Ch'i and Abyssia are going to be set to CPU when I get back home on Monday.

If you want to keep going, though, I'll certainly finish the game.


That is understandable. I agree that the giants won, but I was thinking there would be a couple more turns. I was hoping that Abysia would let my troops pass trough and i can trow a huge army at it's doom. I had no real chance but I would have loved a huge end game clash. But then again maybe in another game.

[JayThomas]

FrankTrollman said:
JayThomas specifically does not have my permission to take control of my position in any game. He already knows this and is presumably taking Abyssia as a calculated insult.

-Frank



My taking over your nation is not a calculated insult. If you wish to take back the reins of Abysia, that is fine with me. I have done nothing but look at the position and view some battles.

I would appreciate not being draged into an argument I have nothing to do with. /threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif

[Ewierl]

I do seem to have occasional internet out here on my vacation!

Reading the thread, however, I'm not sure what the point is. The level of ill-will and drama, combined with the high proportion of players that need to be replaced, are starting to make me think we should just let this game drop.

I will keep playing if others wish, I'm having an okay time, but it really sounds like only a couple of people (at most) are actually still enthusiastic.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted.

[JayThomas]

For the record - I do not steal peoples positions. I am not a master hacker to modify someones god files. And I'm a nice person. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Hellboy]

FrankTrollman said:
Jay Thomas took over my position in another game while I was playing it by having my password sent to him by Hellboy. I had explicitly stated that I did not want that to happen. Needless to say, I would be mortally offended were JayThomas to take over my position in any game under any circumstances ever in the future. I already told him that he couldn't have a position I was playing and he took it anyway. There's nothing he can say or do at this point that won't make me extremely leary of him as a person. I had to change all my god files because of his behavior.




For the record:

Jay Thomas entered "The Middle Way" game at my request, and had no knowledge of the events prior to his entry (nor could he, since the critical information was an in-game message). For my part, I had in all sincerity believed that Frank had withdrawn, and I was anxious to get a substitute rather than see the position stale or go AI.

Therefore I gave Jay Thomas the master password so that he would be able to play the position. Jay Thomas never had Frank's password, nor did I. Culpability (if there is any) for Frank losing his position in the game is mine, and mine alone.

Furthermore I have no reason to believe Jay Thomas is a master hacker and every reason to believe he is a nice guy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Good move. Its best to give the master password. If a player password were ever given out they might have to remake ALL of their pretenders. And without a way to read them in and make a change we all know what a pain that is. There isnt even an easy way to see what the settings are.

[DrPraetorious]

The server will be down overnight. When ewierl gets back next week we should be able to take a turn or two - I'll be gone again for the second half of next week.

[Ewierl]

I can attempt to take turns this week while I'm on my vacation. Internet does exist out here, albeit sometimes sporadic.

[Ewierl]

No signs of life are apparent. DrP, make a post if/when this game lives again.

[DrPraetorious]

I think it's pretty clear that this game is dead.