View Full Version : The Middle Way X - Faerun EA [Abandoned]
Hellboy
February 4th, 2007, 04:16 PM
We're abandoning this thread for reason of it having been thoroughly trashed. For players interested in discussing the game, the new thread is titled "The Middle Way2 - Faerun EA"
This game will be played on the Faerun map in the early age. I am starting with the map that Hadrian II edited (starting from Edi's map) for his Faerun PBM game (here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=474100&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)). Hadrian II's map is attached here, but I'll be doing some edits prior to starting, most notably I'll remove all the indy fortresses.
I'm looking for 16 players in this game and I'm aiming at intermediate players, but newbies are welcome. I'll not turn away veterans, but if you're a top player in veteran games, this game might be underpowered for you. For newbies, the one thing I really don't want to see is a turn 2 or 3 drop (and I've seen 4 of those in my first two Dom3 games). For that reason please be sure you're ready for a 6 month commitment on a large map game. You should have at least played the tutorial and/or a SP game through 20 turns, with a pretender similar to the one you're playing here.
I would love to see this game get started w/ a 5 - 15 turn blitz, but I know that will be difficult in a large player game. If we're having difficulty getting 16 players, we might considering starting w/ some AI positions set on "impossible"
Server:
TBA
Settings:
Hall of Fame: 15
Magic Site Frequency: 50-60?
Renaming: on
Graphs: off?
Others are standard
Hosting Schedule:
24hr QH, moving to 48hr QH later
Victory Conditions:
VPs or #Provinces?
Mods:
CB?
Worthy Heroes?
On Stales and Lost Causes:There is no hard and fast rule, but 3 successive stales are sufficient cause to be set to AI, unless you have communicated with the host (me). A complete lack of communication combined with numerous stales also justifies setting to AI.
I know from experience that it's depressing to playing a losing position, but your fellow players will appreciate it when you "give hell" to those taking you out. Still its clearly better to go AI then to stale indefinitely, but it would be appreciated if you would announce your intention to go AI on this thread, prior to doing so.
Sheap's Rules of Diplomacy (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=474483&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=#Post474483) (multiplayer tips 1 and 2) will be in effect. (You don't have to role play, although it is encouraged, but you do have to be civil.)
Players:
1. Abysia - Sandman
2. Agartha - Tyrant
3. Arcoscephale - Darrel
4. Atlantis - Meglobob
5. Hellheim - Amhazair
6. Lanka - Shovah32
7. Marverni - Teraswaerto
8. Mictlan - WSzaboPeter
9. Niefleheim - Xox
10. Pangaea - Dedas
11. R'lyeh - Evilhomer
12. Sauromatia - imororg
13. T'ien Ch'i - Terrel
14. Yomi - Izzyz
Discussion Points:
Game Concept: My idea behind this game is that it is a "high magic" game, and thus the increased magic freq & choice of EA. However, I suspect that the combination of increased magic site freq + CB + Worthy Heroes favor T'ien Ch'i, so we'll open all 3 decisions to debate and go with the consensus.
Graphs: I'd prefer graphs off, but I believe newbies benefit greatly by having this on, so we can turn graphs on if most players want that.
Mods: I'd like to play with CB & Worthy Heroes, but I have no experience w/ either, so we can discuss this. One of Sheap's games, recently completed (here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3maars&Number=474486&page =0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)), used both these mods, and it seemed to work out well.
Victory Conditions: I'm open to using either VPs (but definitely not cumulative VPs) or # of provinces as victory conditions. If we go with VPs, 40% seems to low to me, I'd be thinking 50% - 55%.
Links:
Location for downloadable Faerun map (http://www.strife.com/dominions-2/files.htm#maps) (you will need Faerun_large_v2, and Faerun_large.tga within that).
Conceptual Balance (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=486850&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)
Worthy Heroes (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=470523)
Feedback:
CB: Y-1 N-7
Worthy Heroes: Y-7 N-1
Graphs: Y-1 N-3
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Sounds sweet im in, will decide nation in a moment.
Edit: nation will be R'lyeh.
Im really for using wh and cb.
IF you intend to do vp you should have graphs on, else the game will end and some players will have no clue what happened so to speak....anticlimatic end I assume.
Tyrant
February 4th, 2007, 04:39 PM
I'll take Argatha please.
I vote in favor of Worthy Heroes, it adds fun with no down side.
I vote against CB. It's supposed to be a balance mod, but i think it's premature to start trying to rebalance a game that when very few players have completed even 5 games.I looked at it before Concepts of Creation started but not since, so maybe it's different now, but it seemed to me to be a more or less random collection of changes, and i just don't see the point. I'd rather explore the basic game before I mess around with mods.
I really love the Faerun map, but it is truly huge, and think that needs to be kept in mind when considering victory conditions and magic sites frequency. Given the size, the end game positions will be epic no matter what. I kinda suspect that after about turn 60 or so only single, unemployed and freindless players will really be able to contemplate absolute victory at even 40%, and many players may opt for "alive and strong" as their personal goal.
Counting VPs at turn X (100?)might be a good alternative. It leaves us with goals but might make for a little less cut-throat game. I'm fine with whatever is decided, just wanted to throw that out there.
Shovah32
February 4th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Im in as lanka. I really think graphs should be on and for victory i vote for either provinces or just default and let players decide who wins.
Meglobob
February 4th, 2007, 04:42 PM
I would like to play Atlantis.
I would prefer magical site setting of 60 or higher.
I consider myself a intermediate player.
I doubt you will be able to blitz, but I am game if you can manage it! I find 24hr quickhost for first 20 - 30 turns and then 48hr quickhost best, personally.
No opinion on mods but will they affect any other MP's I am in?
I prefer graphs off.
Prefer provinces victory but I am easy.
Thanks for offering to host/run the game Terrel.
FrankTrollman
February 4th, 2007, 04:42 PM
Deleted.
Sir_Dr_D
February 4th, 2007, 04:46 PM
I'm in. I agree with using both mods. (If Tien Chi has the upper hand that shows the CB will need to be adjusted. But Tien CHi will likely not have the advantage by much. I am willing to take the experiment.) If we use Vps, my vote is to have one VP per capital only.I like the idea of no score graphs as well.
I would like to play as arco.
Hellboy
February 4th, 2007, 04:47 PM
FrankTrollman said:But I wouldn't play with conceptual balance. Life is too short to spend large amounts of time playing with that mod.
Care to elucidate? And, if I can ask, have you played w/ CB in an MP game?
Not that I'm bent on playing w/ CB - I'm just interested in hearing more about it.
Hellboy
February 4th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Meglobob said:
I doubt you will be able to blitz, but I am game if you can manage it! I find 24hr quickhost for first 20 - 30 turns and then 48hr quickhost best, personally.
That's about what I'm thinking.
No opinion on mods but will they affect any other MP's I am in?
I haven't tested this, but I know it was not a problem under Dom2, I have to believe it is not a problem under Dom3. One thing you really used to need to be careful about, however, was turning the mods on and off. This was especially true when creating your pretender; many people used to create the pretender under the wrong mod, and lost lots of points that way.
Thanks for offering to host/run the game Terrel.
My pleasure.
FrankTrollman
February 4th, 2007, 05:21 PM
Deleted.
Teraswaerto
February 4th, 2007, 05:37 PM
I would like to play as Marverni.
I vote YES on worthy heroes, and NO on CB.
Dedas
February 4th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Sign me up please! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I would like to play Pangaea.
Xox
February 4th, 2007, 05:40 PM
Woot faerun map!!
I will take Neifleheim.
I vote against the cb mod, it is basically unfinished and buggy.
Oh yeah, and a big vote for graphs OFF
But I feel the host gets to make all these decisions.
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 05:43 PM
you are of course free to your opinion, but after having played 10-15 or so games with cb I must say blesses are less efficient non the less, among other things this was done by improving the scales (and specifically the weaker scales like the growth and luck scale).
I personally feel that vanilla EA has severe balance issues, the heims being to strong etc..This the cb mode atleast atempts to adress.
The reason why I belive the cb is disliked by many is that the old power strats/builds people did may not be as good anymore, and this forces player to try new things. I agree the cb takes some time to grow used to, but in the end I do belive most of the changes are in the correct direction.
There are many games running in vanilla mode, I for one would enjoy a game under these settings.
edit: the link you are giving is to the old cb mod i belive, should be a 1.0 out there.
Tyrant
February 4th, 2007, 05:45 PM
bump Frank's post
Unlike Frank, i usually try to be diplomatic when commenting on someone else's hard work, but since he didn't bother I'll just second his points. It really is a bunch of radical and random changes, and his example is perfect- I design pretenders by trying to see if there's anything that fits the position i'm going for better than the obviously superior Master Lich for every nation , yet this mod improves the ML? You gotta be kidding. CB is rife with this sort of thing.
DomII CB mod was a very carefully thought out series of small changes designed to rebalance the game based on the input of many experienced players long after the game had been released. This one swiped the name, but is a bunch of radical knee jerk alterations based on first impressions of a new game without discernable rhyme or reason.
Meglobob
February 4th, 2007, 05:46 PM
I have read up on the CB mod and vote NO.
But worthy heros sounds cool, so I vote Yes.
Sandman
February 4th, 2007, 05:50 PM
I'd like to give Abysia a whirl. No opinion on mods. I'd tone down some (not all) of Hadrian's victory point provinces a bit. Good idea getting rid of the free fortresses. There's a small neighbour bug around province 44, might want to fix it.
imororg
February 4th, 2007, 05:53 PM
I would like to play as Sauromatia.
I vote NO for CB and Heroes MOD's, and YES to graphs off.
Izzyz
February 4th, 2007, 06:05 PM
I'll take a shot at Yomi, if still available. I have played only one game with the new CB, and didn't last long, so I have no strong opinion. Sinilarly Worthy Heroes, but I can't see how a different heroes list can hurt.
WSzaboPeter
February 4th, 2007, 06:09 PM
I would like to play Mictlan if it's available. I'm playing it in another game and kind of like it.
I vote in favour Worthy Heroes, but I vote against CB. The first one is a fun thing, but CB is a balance mod. I'm not that good in this game to be able to judge if it makes the balance better, but generally i think this game is too young to use such thing, and a lot of people tell that it's broken and buggy anyway.
Hellboy
February 4th, 2007, 06:15 PM
FrankTrollman said:
Care to elucidate?
Opening up the CB file is a window into perplexing comedy.
...
Wow. That's a pretty compelling argument, Frank. I get what you're saying about selective use, but I can't say I understand the game well enough to say for myself whether CB is in fact fatally flawed, or not. At the least you've pushed my opinion far enough to categorize it as "experimental", and as such I'd vote against it for the purposes of this game.
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 06:25 PM
I was the first person to sign up, yet Im not in the list....
Hellboy
February 4th, 2007, 06:27 PM
Evilhomer said:
I was the first person to sign up, yet Im not in the list....
I was waiting for your nation pick - I'll put you in now though.
Dedas
February 4th, 2007, 06:28 PM
I'm not on the list either, and I posted before Izzyz and imororg (and they are on).
Teraswaerto
February 4th, 2007, 06:32 PM
Neither am I.
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Just for the hell of it im going to argue some more, even if im completly fine with doing a vanilla game aswell =)
Trollman wrote:
In an attempt to somehow make blessing less important they gave giant boosts to the Oracle, Blood Fountain, and Master Lich. Do I have to draw you a diagram? Those gods already start with 3 in a path and a high dominion. For a Double or Triple Bless Startegy that's all that matters - the god is going to be imprisoned anyway.
The "giant" boosts to the blood fountain and the oracle is that they receive 2 astral gems/slaves per turn. If you imprison them as you say you will receive an additional 2 gems starting from about turn 30 (good players have gem income of 50+ at this point). This is hardly a "giant" boost to a bless strat, in fact it's so small it won't be noticed...
The lich...thing is he starts with death 3, not a great path to build most bless strategies with to be honest. Also he will never be a good rainbow searcher (there are better choices), neither an sc (5 hp). Maybe the cost reduction was a bit to much but there are still better chassis to build blesses around for sure.
I do agree that some points in the cb is not optional to a big game like this (basically scales where boosted with small game blitzes in mind, they are to strong in a game like this), but I still think there are more pro's than con's to be honest
Amhazair
February 4th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Cool, another Faerun game. I love that map.
You can sign me up with Helheim (unless that scares people too much at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif) , it's about time I play with one of the heims and see what the fuss is about.
Oh, and about the victory conditions: imo this map is made to played with VPs, else there will be little reason to attack the well-defended ones.
Hellboy
February 4th, 2007, 07:11 PM
Evilhomer said:
edit: the link you are giving is to the old cb mod i belive, should be a 1.0 out there.
Fixed.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 07:28 PM
FrankTrollman said:
Care to elucidate?
Opening up the CB file is a window into perplexing comedy.
Specific problems are too numerous to even mention because there are too many for me to even count off on my fingers, after which I lose track.
From a conceptual standpoint, the CB series seems to come from a standpoint of simply looking at all the things that are most often used in his experience and then nerf them all. And then take all the things that are rarely used and give them boosts. Unfortunately, this is completely retarded and unsalvageable way to go about anything because there's the whole notion of "selective utility" which the designer of CB seems to just plain not understand at all.
See, if a unit or spell is selectively useful, that means that it is highly useful in some circumstances, and won't be used in others. And the game is full of that stuff. That's part of the strategy. If I'm not fighting a glamour army, I don't pack Chariot Archers, and so on. But if you simply look at all that stuff that is rarely used and make it good enough that you'd use it all the time then you have something which owns things in its niche, and is totally useful all the time anyway. That's actually broken.
But then on top of that, in addition to just going about giving bonuses and nerfs to units that really don't need it on grounds that make no sense (your normal mainline units get nerfed and your specialty problem-solver units get bonuses so that it just inverts your production schedule for no reason), the actual changes don't make any sense at all.
In an attempt to somehow make blessing less important they gave giant boosts to the Oracle, Blood Fountain, and Master Lich. Do I have to draw you a diagram? Those gods already start with 3 in a path and a high dominion. For a Double or Triple Bless Startegy that's all that matters - the god is going to be imprisoned anyway.
I mean, the Master Lich starts with a 3 Death, a Dominion of 3, and a Pathcost of 20! But for some reason the Conceptual Balance geniuses decided that he'd be better off costing forty less points. What the hell? Seriously, what the hell is that? With the points you save on Dominion, he's actually a cheaper triple bless platform than an Archmage. And this was supposed to decrease the preponderance of bless strategies?
It is not a project that has accomplished anything, it's a phenominal waste of time. It's not just that they have repeated boner moves like the Oracle and the Divine Serpent, it's that the very methodology of the mod creation is actually incapable of delivering a decent or balanced product.
-Frank
Nice. Perhaps next time you should consider playing with it before commenting on it being a phenomenal "waste of time". Especially considering your completely ignorant remark on the usefulness of those chassis as bless. If you paid any attention to cb mod at all, perhaps you'd like to find the points for these triple blesses you are speaking of. Not to mention Fountain of Blood and master Lich are awful bless chassis. As for anyone talking about master lich being a good rainbow, I'll duel anyone in a best of three series, you pick master lich. Lastly, your manner leaves room for desiring. As for your chariot archers stopping dual blessed HelHerdlings with Sulphur Haze, you were playing noobs. Bye.
Huzurdaddi
February 4th, 2007, 07:32 PM
Frank,
I have read your drivel one too many times on this board. You are *always* on the wrong side of arguments wrt. balance. You simply do not know what you are talking about and you really should keep your mouth shut when the subject comes up.
Seriously, the master lich is a bless chassis? Really? For what? The feared D9 bless? Nerfing things that are most commonly used is "retarded" LOL! Do you even THINK before you post ( answer: no )? Why do you think that some units are commonly used? Is it people looking for flavour in MP games? Seriously why don't you do us all a favor and shoot yourself in you god forsaken face?
QM has done a great job with the CB mod for Dom3. Dom3 needed it badly. Heck I don't know if he went far enough, but he is trying to take small steps on some on the more broken units.
Hey, maybe I am being harsh but when Frank does something *anything* as good as QM then he can talk smack. Seriously, anything.
Sir_Dr_D
February 4th, 2007, 07:39 PM
I played with the concpetual balance mod and liked it.
I was playing middle age Man and was placed beside double blessed Vanheim. It was fairly even and wasa lot of fun to play. In the regular game I netither want to be Vanheim, or play against them. They are too empowered and it is no fun. With the balance mod I do.
ANother thing I liked was the very subtle changes to some of the troops. When I look at the regular game, and see the prices of some of the troops, I think that there is no way I would purchase some of those.In the balance mod (I am thinking things like spearmen and militia here) I would. I wouldn't completely get the spearmen instead of the other troops, making the other ones obsoltute. Instead it is a trade off as to which one you want to get, and there is uses for both of them. It increases the variety of troops you create, and that makes it more fun.
There is also speels that weren't used before, that now have their cost reduced, increasing the variety of spells that are usable. And magic items that wern't used before, or used too much, have been altered, increasing the variety of items to build.
Yes some of the changes in the mod might have unbalanced it more. Other ones balanced it. Other changes might not have made much difference, but it is still a change from the regular game, which is nice. All the arguments saying that the mod is to new, and isn't balanced enough apply to the game as well. The unmodded version of the game has its issues and balance problems. It comes down to who you think can balance it better, the developer of the conceptual balance mod, or the developers of the game. And I say that the Concpetual balance mod is at least equivalent if not better, and will only get better with time. The change alone is nice.
I would like to use the balance mod, because the other game I am in is not using it. And I like the variety. It comes down to what the host of this game wants. If you want to use the conceptual balance mod, say so, and those that want to use it can play this game, and those that don't can find another game. I hope you say you do want to use it, becuase no other games that are currently running use it, adn I did find it fun.
(And fort the argument that says it was buggy, I did not run into any bug issues in the COncepts of Creation games, and we were using an older version of the mod. The new one would have lots of those issues removed.)
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 07:43 PM
I think this picture just about sums of what is going on in this thread.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/493595-argue.jpg
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 07:45 PM
The number one reason I want to use the cb is that it balances the heims. If you have any experience with EA you will realise how good Helheim and to a bit lesser extent the two other heims are.
Already this game has niefelheim and helheim signed up, I wouldn't care about that if the cb was used, but those nations have me seriously worried about running this game in vanilla. You really should pay no attention to Frank, his post clearly showes he has no experience about CB (seriously blood fountain and master lich as bless chassis?)
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 07:47 PM
I would like to give Kailasa a whirl if any spots are still available.
Ironhawk
February 4th, 2007, 07:49 PM
FrankTrollman said:
From a conceptual standpoint, the CB series seems to come from a standpoint of simply looking at all the things that are most often used in his experience and then nerf them all. And then take all the things that are rarely used and give them boosts. Unfortunately, this is completely retarded and unsalvageable way to go about anything because there's the whole notion of "selective utility" which the designer of CB seems to just plain not understand at all.
Do you even know who made CB? It was Quantum Mechani - probably one of the most experienced dominion players there is. If his experience says to nerf one thing and boost another he is likely right. I will not argue particular fine points of the CB mod or say that it has reached the refined state of dom2 CB... but I think you are foolish to disregard it in the way that you have.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Foodstamp said:
I think this picture just about sums of what is going on in this thread.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/493595-argue.jpg
So you propose the idea that debating on the internet has no merit or point whatsoever?
Teraswaerto
February 4th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Darrel said:
If you want to use the conceptual balance mod, say so, and those that want to use it can play this game, and those that don't can find another game.
Although I voted no CB, I dont much care either way. Haven't played with it, my impression just was that it's still rather unfinished.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Teraswaerto said:
Darrel said:
If you want to use the conceptual balance mod, say so, and those that want to use it can play this game, and those that don't can find another game.
Although I voted no CB, I dont much care either way. Haven't played with it, my impression just was that it's still rather unfinished.
It is very much unfinished. But if you think vanilla is finished in that sense, then you are sooooooooooooooo off.
johnarryn
February 4th, 2007, 07:55 PM
Alright, the use of the word "retarded" is juvenile enough. Now we're making fun of people with disabilities and how they look all funny and stuff. Classy.
FrankTrollman
February 4th, 2007, 08:15 PM
If there's no CB, I'll play early Ermor.
-Frank
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 08:20 PM
@kissblade
It is not so much the debate that is pointless, rather the way in which it was being argued.
Things were getting personal and I was hoping to maybe lighten the mood.
@johnarryn
Who is making fun of "people with disabilities and how they look all funny and stuff"? I am not of the opinion that mentally disabled people look funny at all, and a quick scan of the thread panned out no results where other posters felt that way as well. Therefore, your the first person in the thread to think that disabled people "look all funny and stuff". Classy.
Sir_Dr_D
February 4th, 2007, 08:22 PM
KissBlade said:
Teraswaerto said:
Darrel said:
If you want to use the conceptual balance mod, say so, and those that want to use it can play this game, and those that don't can find another game.
Although I voted no CB, I dont much care either way. Haven't played with it, my impression just was that it's still rather unfinished.
It is very much unfinished. But if you think vanilla is finished in that sense, then you are sooooooooooooooo off.
My thoughts exacty. CB is unfinished but so is the vanilla game. But you may argue on little decisions made with CB on whether such a change is balancing but there is nothing that is largely unbalancing in it. (such as the Vanheim issue that came with the game.) And most of the bugs have been worked out.
Shovah32
February 4th, 2007, 08:28 PM
I think we should just stop the arguement here now. I agree that frank may have been a little blunt but i see wheres he is coming from and i certainly have a few problems with CB. I can also see the other point of view, especially when playing an EA game where CB nerfs things such as uber blessed 'heims. In the end if this comes to a vote it looks like there wont be CB(havnt counted but it seemed that way when i read it) but either way, its not a really big deal.
PS: i would like to re-state my preference for graphs on, im currently in a no-graphs game and it is both annoying and confusing.
tromper
February 4th, 2007, 08:51 PM
I'm probably too late as you guys filled up insanely fast, but if someone drops before you begin, I'd like to step in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I've played a lot of EA C'tis, so....
RicoRico
February 4th, 2007, 08:51 PM
if there's space I'd love to join.. with anything that's open..
man these things fill up fast!
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 08:55 PM
There is absolutly no doubt in my mind tho that 16 players willing to do this game with cb mod can be found. As some previous poster did say it's completly up to the host tho.
johnarryn
February 4th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Foodstamp,
Wow, you got me. I secretly have a problem with people with mental and physical disabilties.
Now that we've gotten through that, if you don't see a problem with picture you decided to post, you need to think about why exactly it's funny to you.
I'm PM'ing you since I don't particularly want to start a flamewar on the board of this game.
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 09:40 PM
On another note: switch me from R'lyeh ---> Oceania
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 10:01 PM
Johnarryn, I don't think you have a problem with handicap children. I just thought it was ironic that you took the initiative to champion the cause by insulting mentally challenged people yourself. I am sure that was not your intention at all, I just found it humorous the wording you used.
As far as the picture goes, the simile is funny to me. I guess that makes me a bad person. It did help to stop the personal insults being spewed about over a player made mod, and that was the point.
Huzurdaddi
February 4th, 2007, 10:14 PM
Foodstamp said:
It did help to stop the personal insults being spewed about over a player made mod
Way to pat yourself on the back. GJ. The sole result of your post was the solidification of people's impression of you. Congratulations.
PS : Frank you are still a useless jackass. If you think you can do better than QM go right ahead. Plenty of people would love to see it.
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 10:24 PM
Huzurdaddi, let's tone down on the name calling a bit. Frank Trollman is a decent guy and a good player, and does not deserve some of the stuff your throwing at him.
As far as how you feel about me. I could care less. You can insult me until your fingers fall off and it will not phase me. That is one of the perks of being heartless and evil.
I recommend you save and channel your anger towards me in the game, if I am able to get in /Fingers crossed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 10:36 PM
Foodstamp said:
Huzurdaddi, let's tone down on the name calling a bit. Frank Trollman is a decent guy and a good player, and does not deserve some of the stuff your throwing at him.
As far as how you feel about me. I could care less. You can insult me until your fingers fall off and it will not phase me. That is one of the perks of being heartless and evil.
I recommend you save and channel your anger towards me in the game, if I am able to get in /Fingers crossed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Since you pretty much profess to being an [censored], I don't know what your claim of "decent guy" really amounts to. And as for being a good player, I highly doubt that considering his post content.
Xox
February 4th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Lets just let the host decide and leave it at that.
That way if someone doesn't like the setup, they just don't play that game and wait for a game start more to their liking.
If you hate a mod that much though you should not get into the game when there is a chance it might be a part of that game. Pretty obvious.
We can discuss merits of the various mods on the appropriate threads, hopefully without attacking personally the people who take the time to make these mods ( and maps) for all of us.
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 10:44 PM
Kissblade,
When your an agent of evil, you have a knack for picking out the decent people and marking them for destruction. That is how I am able to discern that he is a nice guy.
As far as you calling me names that require a [censored], and Huzurdaddi insinuating things about me, I chalk that up to the anonymity of the internet.
The internet is the perfect medium for cowards to lament and slander other people. I doubt you would say whatever your [censored] remark is to my face if we were in the same room, and I doubt Huzurdaddi would talk to Frank Trollman face to face in such a fashion if they were within a few feet of one another. That is why I take what you say with a grain of salt.
Lighten up and remember why we are here, to discuss dominions and try to set up multiplayer games.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 10:47 PM
If I was in any wish to disguise who or how I am on the internet, I wouldn't use my real life pic as my avatar. =P And censored was just calling you an *** mixed with another word anyway. Which is what you admitted to. As for using the internet as a medium for cowards to make themselves look big, I'm always amused by someone tossing this term out because quite often it's usually just pointing the finger at themselves.
quantum_mechani
February 4th, 2007, 10:56 PM
I would just like to point out that charges of 'CB is buggy and broken' seem to be based on beta versions, rather than 1.0. I am not in fact aware of any bugs that have been reported for version 1.0, and it even fixes a couple of minor base game bugs.
On the subject of the supposed overbalanced bless pretenders, as has been pointed out, the paths like blood and death have very poor effects compared to those like water and fire. Further, the boosts to the pretenders are very hard to use while also making use of a high bless, the intention with the changes is to open up new strategic options for the chassises.
I'd also like to point out, that while veteran players have voiced various annoyances with CB, they almost universally fall into the category of 'finding a change annoying/disruptive to a particular strategy' as opposed to 'creates a major imbalance', as some in this thread seem to imply.
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Kissblade,
If that is your real life pic, I can guarantee you will only call me names from the safety of the internet.
As far as me being evil or whatever. I figured the sarcasm would be obvious since it was in response to Huzurdaddi telling me that the forum hates me or whatever else he was insinuating.
In game and on these forums I have been atleast as helpful as anyone else and I refuse to lower myself to the white trash level of name calling to get my point across that some of you deem appropriate to defend and/or criticize a stupid mod.
The bottom line is this. If you like the mod, play with it. If you don't like the mod, don't play games with it.
If it is going to make your Epeen bigger, keep calling me names for all I care, you have no insight into my life beyond these forums. And I guarantee it will not anger me, so keep them coming!
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:08 PM
Foodstamp said:
Kissblade,
If that is your real life pic, I can guarantee you will only call me names from the safety of the internet.
Who's exactly using the safety of the internet and stroking their epenis with a post like that?
You'll note I have called you no names in any of my posts. Except that I have pointed out you ADMIT to being an *** and thus your opinion of anyone being a "decent guy" isn't regarded as highly. As for your assumption, you can make it as you will. As I've said, personally I find it more ironic that you attempt to make statements to make YOUR "epenis" seem bigger since you're the one making all these assertions about everyone else's personal life. If you assume you won't get the same reaction from people to things you say if you said them offline, then you need to go outside more.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:09 PM
double post ...
Izzyz
February 4th, 2007, 11:10 PM
Way to go on respecting the host's wish for civility, guys. As per Sheap:
Tip 1: Code of personal conduct.
1) Don't berate the other players.
2) Do remember to draw a clear distinction between your in-game (role playing) persona and your out of game self. This is especially important if you are planning on lying and backstabbing.
3) Keep the wall between the game and the forums/real world. Someone can be a colossal jerk in the game without being one in reality. As long as they follow rule #2, this is perfectly fine.
While Frank's opinion could have been stated (much) more diplomatically, calling on him to shoot himself in the face is way over the top. He gets my kudos for not responding in kind. And as for his caliber of play, I should point out that another thread just voted him the most dangerous player on the forum.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:13 PM
Izzyz said:
While Frank's opinion could have been stated (much) more diplomatically, calling on him to shoot himself in the face is way over the top. He gets my kudos for not responding in kind. And as for his caliber of play, I should point out that another thread just voted him the most dangerous player on the forum.
Should I point out that those players (no disrespect to them) who voted for him are not vets and 2) many people who are decidedly NOT dangerous players are also voted in that threat?
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 11:19 PM
When you take what I said and change it to your explicit comment, that is name calling. When Huzzurdaddi directs personal insults at Frank Trollman, that is name calling.
As far as assumptions into your personal life or anyone elses, I have not made any. I have only responded to the insults thrown my way.
But I will summarize what your problem with me is. You got a case of the internet red-*** because you and huzur thought you could rip some guy to shreds with personal attacks because he did not like a mod you liked.
Frank Trollman knew when he posted what he thought of the CB mod, that he was insulting the creator, just like you guys stooped to name calling to defend it.
I don't think what Frank done is right because I am sure QM put alot of work into the mod, and people who create mods do not deserve to be insulted.
But what is equally wrong, is calling someone a poopoo face in defense of a mod, its just a mod ffs. Next time maybe the CB fan club can give us reasons as to why the mod is good and should be considered, instead of being a couple of E-thugs.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:23 PM
Foodstamp said:
As far as assumptions into your personal life or anyone elses, I have not made any. I have only responded to the insults thrown my way.
But I will summarize what your problem with me is. You got a case of the internet red-*** because you and huzur thought you could rip some guy to shreds with personal attacks because he did not like a mod you liked.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
I have pointed out many fronts in his argument that was flawed. And I find your vaunted claims to "diffuse the thread" pretty laughable since it was only till you started posting that the topic got derailed so much. If you have anything actually noteworthy of a clue left to post that isn't an obvious attempt to troll me further then you can take it to the pm. If you actually took the time to read this than maybe you'd actually have a point of debate. In fact, let me toss out a personal attack on you so you actually have something to work with. You seem pretty illiterate since you haven't actually seem to read anything that was written in this thread, including your own posts. Otherwise you won't be babbling so much nonsense.
Evilhomer
February 4th, 2007, 11:24 PM
Reasons why it should be considered:
1. Now the majority of spells can be useful instead of just a small percentage (yes even farstrike ect are decent now)
2. Super-imbalanced nations like helheim/niefelheim has been toned down, while weak nations have gotten a small boost (this is the best part in my opinion).
3. Alot of new tactics/pretenders have become viable that were just bad choices before.
4. Value of scales. Yes no more automatic order 3, misfortune 2 autopicks.
Also, the the anti-cb side has made no valid point (no the argument that the blood fountain, oracle and the lich being some form of uber bless chassis now is just plain wrong).
quantum_mechani
February 4th, 2007, 11:25 PM
I have to agree that thread would have better been titled 'Most Dangerous Players to Play In Games On The Forum In The Last Few Months'. It was sad to see not even a mention of reknowned players like Archeo, Zen, Alexti, or Caine.
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Kissblade, I have to agree with you. I must be illiterate because I could not find one instance of you explaining why the CB mod is good in this thread beyond just insulting someone else's ability to play Dominions 3.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Foodstamp said:
Kissblade, I have to agree with you. I must be illiterate because I could not find one instance of you explaining why the CB mod is good in this thread beyond just insulting someone else's ability to play Dominions 3.
So you didn't notice the part where I said that cb offers a lot less in leeway of "free scale points" than vanilla? I can't say I'm surprised with this development.
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 11:40 PM
You mean when you said this?
Nice. Perhaps next time you should consider playing with it before commenting on it being a phenomenal "waste of time". Especially considering your completely ignorant remark on the usefulness of those chassis as bless. If you paid any attention to cb mod at all, perhaps you'd like to find the points for these triple blesses you are speaking of. Not to mention Fountain of Blood and master Lich are awful bless chassis. As for anyone talking about master lich being a good rainbow, I'll duel anyone in a best of three series, you pick master lich. Lastly, your manner leaves room for desiring. As for your chariot archers stopping dual blessed HelHerdlings with Sulphur Haze, you were playing noobs. Bye.
I am going to be honest with you. It is very hard for me to get through all the insults to find anything supporting the CB mod in that post.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:45 PM
You're right. Looking over it, I pretty much wasn't clear in my intent. CB balances the scales a LOT more than base game. In base game, the only scale you need to take is Order 3, you can fudge most other scales such as sloth 3, death 3, temp scales, drain 2, misfortune 2 from Order 3 alone to fund a triple bless. CB doesn't really allow this. Also, most ideal triple bless pretender chassis in CB (Mother of Rivers, cyclops, etc) are too expensive to actually fund a triple bless without killing your economy. This is what I meant to illustrating by saying "If you paid any attention to cb mod at all, perhaps you'd like to find the points for these triple blesses you are speaking of". As for the rest of the post, it was pretty much refuting his claims of those three pretenders as bless worthy chassis. The only one that really serves the purpose is Oracle, and only VERY VERY nichely.
Foodstamp
February 4th, 2007, 11:49 PM
That post was pretty much insulting his ability to play the game. If you would have responded with the one you just posted instead, it could have probably saved us alot of insults and Huzur jumping on your "kick someone while they are being picked on" bandwagon.
KissBlade
February 4th, 2007, 11:52 PM
Foodstamp said:
That post was pretty much insulting his ability to play the game. If you would have responded with the one you just posted instead, it could have probably saved us alot of insults and Huzur jumping on your "kick someone while they are being picked on" bandwagon.
My post was independent of anyone else's post, so I'm not sure where your bandwagon comment came from. If anyone, I only posted to stop the anti -CB mod bandwagon that already seemed forming thanks to this misinformation. And if you looked at my post, it was mostly directed at him not playing with the mod before critiquing it.
Hellboy
February 5th, 2007, 12:04 AM
This is just plain and simple astounding. I go off to watch the superbowl, and the thread is totally trashed! 43 new posts since before the superbowl began - talk about thread hijacking!!!
I'm closing this thread and starting a new one (but I will keep game slot reservations in place) I do notice that 90+% of the spam in this thread is not done by anyone actually playing in the game this thread was intended to open. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
KissBlade
February 5th, 2007, 12:09 AM
Actually I was intending to sign up till I noticed it wasn't cb modded and all the good nations were taken and I didn't feel like spending many months with EA Ryleh =\.
Reverend Zombie
February 5th, 2007, 01:04 AM
I'd like in as Oceania, if there's room when the smoke clears.
Gandalf Parker
February 5th, 2007, 02:40 AM
If this thread had been pointed out to me earlier I would have done something.
Let me point out now that if you shift from discussing the subject, to discussing each other, then you endanger the thread. It will be edited, locked, hidden, or deleted.
Continue doing so as a habit and you endanger your login.
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