Uses for Skratti?

[Aleph]

As the only constant mage choice through all three ages of giant nations, I'm betting many people have thoughts on how best to use these bad boys. I'm kind of overwhelmed by the number of options they have - you could use them for artillery support with Falling Frost or blood magics, thug them up and let them go to town as werewolves (which is what I've been doing), blood hunt, push into the water with robes of the sea... I see too many options, and I'm looking to narrow them down a bit.

[Actuarian]

I'm not sure why you would want to narrow your options. I like their versatility. I've even used them in werewolf or wolf form as troop couriers to get Niefel giants to the front more quickly.

This is probably a bug, but I did find a creative use for the Werewolf (or wolf?) aspect of Skrattis. My mage form of Skratti was marked with old age. I noticed that he wasn't 'old' in the other two forms. Every year I changed his form the turn before the age afflictions kicked in and he never sufferred any old age afflictions.

[lch]

Actuarian said:
Every year I changed his form the turn before the age afflictions kicked in and he never sufferred any old age afflictions.


When do old age afflictions kick in, exactly?

I got a sage province and recruited one sage every month there. When I had three of them, suddenly two of them got diseased, although I don't have Death dominion. Needless to say, I was pissed. Your shape shifting workaround might work for Mictlan, too.

[thejeff]

Late winter?

[Aleph]

I like that they have all these options, I just wanted to know what people's basic builds are for different ones. When I thug them, for example, it's usually just a pendant of luck, a reinvigoration amulet, and Chill of Winter + Quicken Self. It works okay, but there's probably better builds out there. I pretty much only use them for arty once I have falling frost. I'm thinking of trying out Jotunheim as a blood / scales build, and it looks like skratti are their big guns (unlike Niefel, which with the right blesses you pretty much only need your capital sacreds).

And can anyone tell me how to use leeching touch effectively? The computer occasionally uses it extremely well (Father Illearth survived some doom horror attacks with it + invulnerability), but I can't get my guys to use it by planning for it.

[Ironhawk]

thejeff said:
Late winter?



Yes, late winter. Nice trick - dodging old age like that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Probably is a bug tho...

[Morkilus]

It's not a bug, it's an exploit. Random birthdays in Dominioins 4!

[Aleph]

So... Skratti? Or we could just start another topic in here, like, what do Niefel Jarls like to eat for their birthday meals?

[Vicious Love]

Morkilus said:
It's not a bug, it's an exploit. Random birthdays in Dominioins 4!



Tremendously thematic exploit, isn't it? I'm all for keeping it in.

[NTJedi]

Actuarian said:
I did find a creative use for the Werewolf (or wolf?) aspect of Skrattis. My mage form of Skratti was marked with old age. I noticed that he wasn't 'old' in the other two forms. Every year I changed his form the turn before the age afflictions kicked in and he never sufferred any old age afflictions.



Well if you're doing a change form back and forth every year that's two turns of research for one unit. So if you're doing change form for 20 of these back and forth that's 20 units not researching for two turns... thus if one provides 7 research then you're losing 140 research points each year.
It's probably better to take a growth scale then to do the micro_management of changing forms and losing research.

[Shovah32]

I could be wrong but im pretty sure changing form dosnt take a turn afaik.

[Aleph]

I think they like ice cream cake. Probably Cookie Puss.

[lch]

Shovah32 said:
I could be wrong but im pretty sure changing form dosnt take a turn afaik.


true dat.

[Actuarian]

NTJedi said:
Well if you're doing a change form back and forth every year that's two turns of research for one unit. So if you're doing change form for 20 of these back and forth that's 20 units not researching for two turns... thus if one provides 7 research then you're losing 140 research points each year.
It's probably better to take a growth scale then to do the micro_management of changing forms and losing research.



You're right. It would be micromanagement hell for not very much gain (maybe a net loss), although Skratti's can summon wolves in the werewolf form. This particular Skratti was in the hall of fame and I had empowered him some. I only shape-changed him and didn't worry about anyone else. I would have got him some boots of youth except I was winning easily and I just wanted to see if he ever suffered any afflictions in the wolf forms.

Edit: Upon rereading your post, you only lose one turn of research per year, not two. That is still excessive micromanagement.

[Edi]

Shovah32 said:
I could be wrong but im pretty sure changing form dosnt take a turn afaik.


It doesn't, it happens instantly. If the skratti's magic is not affected like e.g. the Uba's or that of some other shapechangers, it's a great way to protect key mages from old age afflictions. The common line mages can take their lumps like everyne else.

Edi

[SlipperyJim]

Mmmm ... Boots of Youth. That's the obvious answer to Abysia's age problems, and it should work out for Jotunheim, too.

Gift of Health is my usual solution, though. It only requires a Nature-5 mage, which is usually pretty easy to get even if you're not a Nature nation. Those keen Enchantresses can often get to Nature-5 with a little help. Gift of Health won't prevent your mages from aging, but it will heal their age afflictions as long as you keep them within your dominion.

[Nick_K]

If the skratti's magic isn't affected, why not use the wolf form all the time?

[Meglobob]

Nick_K said:
If the skratti's magic isn't affected, why not use the wolf form all the time?



The magic is effected, in that it is not as powerful I believe, I think if I remember correctly water-3 goes down to 2 or 1 or whatever.

Also the physical form is weaker than the skratti's or werewolf form.

[Actuarian]

Nick_K said:
If the skratti's magic isn't affected, why not use the wolf form all the time?



A werewolf can call wolves as an action. It's not a ritual spell. The Skratti werewolf form starts out with no magic paths, at least mine never have.

[FAJ]

From what i have seen, the Skratti werewolf has 1 water one blood. the wolf form has no paths.

The werewolf cannot call wolves, or I at least cant find how.

This is for LA (Utgard)

[Nick_K]

Regular werewolves can use the 'summon allies' command to call wolves. I don't know if the giant werewolves have the same ability. If you haven't been able to do it, they probably don't.

Calling werewolves with a skratti seems a bit wasteful anyway... there must be loads of better things to do

[Aleph]

Such as...

[Blitz]

Aleph said:
Such as...



Blood hunt, research, search for magic sites, take a province...

[Huzurdaddi]

I blood hunt with enough of them to get a decent blood economy going, this means a decent sized map maybe 6 to 8.

After that I use them entirely as thugs. I use them, generally in the following configuration:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8454/config1nq4.jpg

I find them to be excellent thugs. I find that their strengths are:

- excellent mobility on the battlefield
- great damage
- decent skills
- cold resistance
- regen
- can cast quicken self

their only weak point seems to be
- terrible MR, which is fixed by Armor of Souls.

Overall I think that they are excellent for 250 gold, and recruitable everywhere.

The Eye shield is a little pricey. However it really does complete the package and makes it unlikely that the unit will get crushed by hoards of chaff ( of course it will eventually succumb due to it's non-zero encumberance ( the boots help but they are not enough, other items are difficult and/or pricey for Jot to get ).

[Graeme Dice]

Have you tried a vine shield instead of an eye shield? It wouldn't boost survivability quite as much, but would greatly aid the Skratti in killing high defense troops. I might also use the antimagic amulet or starshine skullcap instead of the armour of souls for MR, but that would mostly depend on my astral gem income relative to blood slaves.

[Huzurdaddi]

Have you tried a vine shield instead of an eye shield ... but would greatly aid the Skratti in killing high defense troops




I have not had the chance to try it yet. I'll keep it in mind if I run against troops that cause these thing to wiff a lot. However with the new Dom3 rules wrt. defence reduction ( 2 points per attack ) and these things having 6 attacks/round I think that something will need a very high defence to get away unscathed.



but would greatly aid the Skratti in killing high defense troops ... but that would mostly depend on my astral gem income relative to blood slaves




I totally agree. It really comes down to how many gems you have vs. how many blood slaves, but this seems to be a moderatly high return on investment for bloodslaves.

Overall for 250 gold + 30 gems + 40 slaves this is ( I think ) a pretty decent use for Skratti.

[Meglobob]

How about adding heart of life or amulet of resilience for extra reinvigoration?

Do you think horror helmet would complete him?

[Huzurdaddi]

Do you think horror helmet would complete him?




When I do use a helmet that is one of those that I commonly use since the Jots generally have a good number of death gems. The above equipment is the "base configuration" that I use. After that I can add in resistances, more reinvigoration, and/or other abilities ( like fear as you mentioned ).

The items I listed are the ones that I *think* have the best bang per gem ( as I said the only possible question is the shield, but it really does help them from getting killed ).

[Aleph]

Yay! Actual responses not about anti-aging exploits!

[Actuarian]

Actuarian said:
A werewolf can call wolves as an action. It's not a ritual spell. The Skratti werewolf form starts out with no magic paths, at least mine never have.



I'm sorry about the bad information. That's what I get for posting both from memory of a November game and from work. I'll try to do better next time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif