Kristoffer's encouragement thread

[Kristoffer O]

Hi all!

This is my encouragement thread.

I have done far too little dominions work lately. Some skiing in the northern parts of sweden, some pen and paper rpg making and some school related work has put me off task.

I tend to get caught up in stuff. I have lured myself into two rpg projects of my own. One campaign and one game. I'm not that good at focusing on one project. The game is about trolls in a scandinavian setting influenced by the artist John Bauer. http://runeberg.org/jbauer/01.jpg


OK. Back to why I'm writing. I believe I will be more focused if I write some stuff here. So this thread is is intended to increase my bad conscience for not working on dominions. I'm not sure how long it will work on me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My current intention is to write occasional stuff here and let you comment (or encourage me) if you like.

Hope you like it.

[Kristoffer O]

First update:

Names for Tir na n'Og are being implemented.

Tir na N'Og is supposed to appear in the next patch.

[Meglobob]

Kristoffer O said:
Names for Tir na n'Og are being implemented.

Tir na N'Og is supposed to appear in the next patch.



Excellent I have been really looking forward to this EA Man nation.

I figured you were away on hols, hope you had a good time.

I have been playing Dom3 for 5 months now and still very, very much enjoy it. You have designed and implemented a very, very deep game with huge amounts to explore. It's really very, very different from 90% of other computer games. I hope you continue to enjoy working on and developing the Dominions series.

I was a roleplayer for 15 yrs and it was great fun. I hope it gives you more ideas for Dominions.

I will only make 1 request of you, any chance of more national specific spells for nations in future patches. Marverni for example has not got any national spells and there are alot of other nations who could do with some national spell love.

Thanks again.

[Gandalf Parker]

Getting the missing nations in would be good.
Id also like to see the nation-specific spells, fortresses, etc to be spread out abit more.

[Dedas]

Kristoffer,

Have you seen Edi's excellent bug shortlist?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=500257&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes he has (he patted him on the head for it in another thread. But keep in mind please that Johan is the programmer.
Kristoffer we can thank for most of the "words" in the game. The thematic choices and descriptions of the nations, units, equipment, spells, etc. So unless you mean the typo stuff, most of the bug list wont really apply here.

[Wish]

Then I guess the typo bugs are to be of interest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

anyway keep it up kris! We all love to see ya workin' on our sweet sweet software mistress.

[Ygorl]

Mmmm, Tuatha. I played them in my longest ever D2 game - that sucker lasted over a year! I'd love to see Banh Sidhe; I had to pretend that some independent Raptors I found were Banh Sidhe, and it just didn't feel quite right.

[Wish]

you talking about the Council of Wyrms? was that the longest ever game?

[Teraswaerto]

You actually can recruit Sidhe in Dom3 currently, just need to get lucky and find The Glowing Hill. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Seen it once so far.

[Velusion]

I would love to see some downward tweaking of the Helheim\Vanheim nations (even if it's just a slight increase in sacred costs) and see a few of the weaker nations (Agartha) get some boosts - even if it's just some nice nation spells.

[Ygorl]

Indeed, my southern neighbor, the Council of Wyrms. What a game that was... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I certainly don't know of any that lasted longer, but I haven't played many multiplayer games.

Teraswaerto, I actually had that site, in the Dawnstrike game we played together. It was very, very nice (though I didn't have the blessings to allow the Sidhe to work very effectively against Jurri's Caelum, unfortunately).

[Nix]

There's something I've been wondering about for a while. Why is Man called Man, when there are so many human nations? Shouldn't they be called some appropriately Celtic name?

[llamabeast]

If general positivity will help - I can't be positive enough! I've always played loads of computer games, but was gradually beginning to lose interest lately - every TBS is kind of the same. But dominions - wow! I literally can't get over how good it is, I find myself mulling over plans and stuff all the time, and I've been playing since October! It's absolutely on a whole different level to every other strategy game I've played, and I've played a lot. Even my girlfriend, who doesn't really like either computer games or fantasy, has been getting more and more into it watching me, and has finally bought it herself!

Anyway, that's enough of that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm really looking forward to the Tir na n'Og as well. I don't know almost anything about them except they involve Sidhe, and I only know Sidhe from the RPG Changeling: The Dreaming. But just from the vague hints of magical forest dwellers and faeries, I'm quite excited.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally there was only Man, with various themes. Now we are gradually shifting to those themes as seperate nations.

[Tichy]

Just think of it as the German "man" (Man sagt = "One says": forgive me if that's not exactly right.)

[Wish]

I think man wins in the long run, thats why they get to call themselves that.

[Beorne]

Great, return to Dom3 work! I appreciate much the polishing of the nations history and description, that is your work (for example, EA R'yleh units does mentions Aboleths but R'yleh that are yet to come). And don't forget a little downward tweak to your loved vans! And some uses for the Pangea tunes! We all eagerly await your work!

[Sombre]

We who are about to mod salute you!

[PDF]

Hi KO, glad to see you back ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Having Tuatha/Tir Na N'Og back soon is good news, is there something else in your bag ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[tromper]

Yay, another patch looms! Like Velusion, I'd like to see a slight neutering of Hel/Van. I also think it would be worthwhile to spend some time with quantum_mechanic and to listen to his ideas as implemented with his cb mod, and whether or not you feel that they would be worthwhile, especially with the pretender balancing.

Plus, an evening out of national heroes and the implementation of national spells for *all* nations would add more flavour.

My partner is Afghan, and while she doesn't play or anything, I was telling her about some of the nations and she mentioned that the incredibly complex and violent history of Afghanistan historically would make a great national addition.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Though heck, I wouldn't mind seeing an Eskimo nation - Aleut/Inuit/etc. Or one that utilizes the cave men independents or.

Whoa, I'm getting carried away! *duct taping fingers*

[Sombre]

You know asking the devs for nations is less likely to get you somewhere than asking modders. I've made a mod nation which pretty much follows a concept someone posted up there.

Maybe some of you are a bit leery of mod nations, but in my opinion there's some really killer stuff just a click away.

[SlipperyJim]

Kristoffer: I don't have any requests, actually. I think Dom3 is a darn fine game as-is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The only things I would add would be more of the stuff you've already given us: more nations, more spells, more magic items, more maps....

More of the same, please!

[Meglobob]

tromper said:
Plus, an evening out of national heroes and the implementation of national spells for *all* nations would add more flavour.

Though heck, I wouldn't mind seeing an Eskimo nation - Aleut/Inuit/etc.



A hopefully easy addition in a future patch would be to perhaps make the worthy heros mod part of vanilla dominions 3. I am abit wary of any mod but the worthy heros mod is great AFAIK.

Eskimos are already in Dom3, LA Atlantis.

[Sombre]

Worthy Heroes has some questionable stuff in it as well as a few errors (from what I've seen). I do agree totally with the principle of it, I just think it should stick a little closer to vanilla and fix more problems than it creates.

Anyway, don't want to sidetrack the thread.

[Graeme Dice]

tromper said:
Though heck, I wouldn't mind seeing an Eskimo nation - Aleut/Inuit/etc.



You might enjoy the Late Era Atlantis then, since they are based directly on the Inuit.

[NTJedi]

Kristoffer O said:
Hi all!

This is my encouragement thread.

I have done far too little dominions work lately. Some skiing in the northern parts of sweden, some pen and paper rpg making and some school related work has put me off task.

I tend to get caught up in stuff. I have lured myself into two rpg projects of my own. One campaign and one game. I'm not that good at focusing on one project. The game is about trolls in a scandinavian setting influenced by the artist John Bauer. http://runeberg.org/jbauer/01.jpg


OK. Back to why I'm writing. I believe I will be more focused if I write some stuff here. So this thread is is intended to increase my bad conscience for not working on dominions. I'm not sure how long it will work on me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My current intention is to write occasional stuff here and let you comment (or encourage me) if you like.

Hope you like it.



I would say the best advancement for improving Dominions_3 would be to open more methods for allowing gamers to improve/adjust the game. Thus you could take a long vacation and see what new adjustments the community has provided.
Adjustments such as AI scripts used to change strategies of computer opponents... some of the older PC games even provided this option. Not sure if this would need to wait until DOM_4.
Method for gamers to change and add events... this would increase replay value even for the veterans. Another suggestion which may need to wait until DOM_4.

Fix the #startspell within the map edit commands because currently it only lasts one turn. I truly miss this working.

The more modding and map edit commands which are created... the more replay value the game will provide. These improvements are also a good direction.


Just a reminder that DOMINIONS_3 is a terrific game !
Thanks for everything you provided.

[DrPraetorious]

KO - hang in there, in just another couple of weeks the sun will rise.

I have been greatly enjoying the game and have found these last several patches to be excellent.

I'll register one vote for ignoring QM/CB entirely. I think you guys do a much better job than he does.

[merlinme]

I'd strongly support making the game (and in particular, the AI), more moddable. If you look at what has been achieved with a game like Hearts of Iron II, it's impressive how big an improvement has been made to the AI just by allowing modders to tweak things like aggressiveness, build queues, research queues, etc.

Not everything can be fixed this way, but you can definitely improve the challenge the AI gives to a human player. And the best part of it is, most of the work is done for you, for free!

[Kristoffer O]

> I'll register one vote for ignoring QM/CB entirely. I think you guys do a much better job than he does.

No way, QM had a big role in the beta testing balancing. His work is good, although I havn't peeked at the CB for quite a while.

---

Man is not called man as in human male. More like man as in Isle of Man or something. A place, not a gender or a race.

I pronounce it with a long 'a'. Like in 'bar', 'lard', 'bard' etc. Maan. But I'm swedish.

---

Cavemen will appear in many forms if and when I finish Gath.

[Kristoffer O]

Modding stuff is good, but it is JK's business. I only read code. No actual programming, apart from adding stats, spells and nations.

[Sombre]

One other thing I'm sure the residents of the mod forum are interested in: Can we expect clean Dom3 unit sprites to be available at some point? It would make the lives of modders much, much easier and I remember someone mentioning in a thread over there that you planned on releasing the images,.. maybe?

Hmm. That sounded more like a nagging request than encouragement. My bad. Soo,.. Wow us with flavoury Gath-y goodness! Dom3 is up there with master of magic as one of my all time favourites.

[Taqwus]

Perhaps I've a sadistic streak, but I really enjoy watching massed archers wipe out enemy formations with flaming arrows or scattering them with chariots. :p

[Kristoffer O]

> One other thing I'm sure the residents of the mod forum are interested in: Can we expect clean Dom3 unit sprites to be available at some point? It would make the lives of modders much, much easier and I remember someone mentioning in a thread over there that you planned on releasing the images,.. maybe?

Actually it's something I have intended to do. I'm not sure if it is possible, but I vaguely recollect that JK made some function to that end. So the nagging is quite OK.

[SelfishGene]

Thanks Kristoffer for not forgetting Dominions!

Maybe, perhaps, you could bring back the proper holy/unholy icons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[K]

Kristoffer, this game is fantastic. Anytime that someone asks for a downward "balance change", I'd like you to feel free to ignore them.

Now that I have Lanka, I'm a happy man. I get my cake and I can eat it too! (Mmmm, monkey cake...) Keep up the good work with the new factions.

That being said, if you'd like to make some more troops for middle-era Agartha, I'd be as happy as a puppy. They are a little light on troops.

[Edi]

More like getting the undead blessing bug fixed so that bless works and undead sacreds getting both holy and unholy icons?

Non-undead reanimators would also benefit from such an icon, or a reanimator/necromancy icon. Just a thought. MAke of it what you will.

Edi

[Meglobob]

K said:
Kristoffer, this game is fantastic. Anytime that someone asks for a downward "balance change", I'd like you to feel free to ignore them.



Can I second this.

So many people complain about 'balance' and this usually results in a unit, spell etc... being nerfed, made vastly inferior than it was. This happens time and time again until eventually the game does become 'balanced', in such a way that noone plays it anymore, cause its boring. I have seen so many good games spoiled this way.

[Sombre]

Edi: There's a mod which fixes bless.

[Gandalf Parker]

I have to be diplomatic about requests to "balance" nations. Especially since Im mostly a solo player and such balance is usually an MP thing so that people know the winner won by strategy. But if its a road which leads to eventually every nation having the same exact units and abilities but just wearing diffrent colors, then my biggest complaint is that there are already a ton of those games. I know that rock-paper-scissors balance is much harder to do but I highly appreciate it.

I also love the art, the RPG themes, the prettier generated maps, and the whole game concept. Thank you Kristoffer.

[RamsHead]

Meglobob said:

K said:
Kristoffer, this game is fantastic. Anytime that someone asks for a downward "balance change", I'd like you to feel free to ignore them.



Can I second this.

So many people complain about 'balance' and this usually results in a unit, spell etc... being nerfed, made vastly inferior than it was. This happens time and time again until eventually the game does become 'balanced', in such a way that noone plays it anymore, cause its boring. I have seen so many good games spoiled this way.


*points to vampires*

Anyway, keep up the good work Kristoffer!

[Edi]

Sombre said:
Edi: There's a mod which fixes bless.


Yeah, I know about that one. It's great thing to have in the interim but the actual issue needs fixing still. But now that the actual location of the problem is known, the fix shouldn't be too much work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edi

[SelfishGene]

What we need to fix vampires is a new tag and ability that gives them mistform for free by default (like glamour gives 1 mirror image). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

Meglobob said:

K said:
Kristoffer, this game is fantastic. Anytime that someone asks for a downward "balance change", I'd like you to feel free to ignore them.



Can I second this.

So many people complain about 'balance' and this usually results in a unit, spell etc... being nerfed, made vastly inferior than it was. This happens time and time again until eventually the game does become 'balanced', in such a way that noone plays it anymore, cause its boring. I have seen so many good games spoiled this way.



I've also seem games where balance was ignored and players simply stopped playing the game because unless you played a specific way you were at a distinct disadvantage.

[Meglobob]

Velusion said: I've also seem games where balance was ignored and players simply stopped playing the game because unless you played a specific way you were at a distinct disadvantage.



Obviously this does not apply to Domnions as there are easily 100's of different ways to play/strategy's to try.

[Gandalf Parker]

It could if all of the games were small maps and 2-4 players with no VP.

[Velusion]

Eh, I can't bother to argue with fanboys that think Dominions3 is divinely perfect when it comes to balance. No point.

To Kris O - Dom3 is a great game and I hope you keep improving it!

[Gandalf Parker]

Or newbs stuck in one game type so they want everything tweaked to run perfectly in their style only.

But I agree that its a great game. (aint it cool that no matter what they all disagree with they can still all love the game?)

[Beorne]

Meglobob said:
Can I second this.
So many people complain about 'balance' and this usually results in a unit, spell etc... being nerfed, made vastly inferior than it was. This happens time and time again until eventually the game does become 'balanced', in such a way that noone plays it anymore, cause its boring. I have seen so many good games spoiled this way.



I can't understand. All the nations are unabalanced, it is not a balanced game (and we love it for this too) but there are very very unbalanced nations, that would be in the "normal unbalance range" with very small tweaks ... and someone (all single player, I think) oppose to this. I can't understand the reason, seriously.

[Meglobob]

Beorne said:

Meglobob said:
Can I second this.
So many people complain about 'balance' and this usually results in a unit, spell etc... being nerfed, made vastly inferior than it was. This happens time and time again until eventually the game does become 'balanced', in such a way that noone plays it anymore, cause its boring. I have seen so many good games spoiled this way.



I can't understand. All the nations are unabalanced, it is not a balanced game (and we love it for this too) but there are very very unbalanced nations, that would be in the "normal unbalance range" with very small tweaks ... and someone (all single player, I think) oppose to this. I can't understand the reason, seriously.



I agree that if you zoom in on 1 nation vs another nation you will find inbalance between them. However, take a step back and look at all the nations in a particular age, you find its very, very cleverly balanced overall.

My MP experience has shown this to be true. For exmaple in MA, Bander Log can destory MA Ulm very, very easily, but MA Agartha can destroy Bander Log easily. Another example EA Helheim can destroy EA Marverni easily but struggles badly against EA Atlantis who in turn struggles against EA Oceania. If you take the nations overall there is a balance.

This was discussed on another thread and in Dom3 you have 'face hugging' (think Alien the movie, attacks the nearest thing straight away), nations such as EA Helheim, MA Ermor, every era Mictlan vs the non-face hugging nations such as EA T'ien Ch'i, MA Arco etc...

Other factors also have a big effect, a face hugger will do well on a small map, a non-face hugger will do well on a large map. Also low gem sites will favour a face hugger (who does not rely on magic as much), well high gem sites favours a non-face hugger. Same with easy to hard research.

[Boron]

I also vote to not care for balance when adding new nations. If they are really imbalanced mods/houserules can solve this issue for mp. But for sp somewhat imbalanced nations are a good thing imho http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Though i have been rather quiet lately i have played a lot of sp recently http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. With every new patch i like Dom3 more, especially thanks to the much improved modding and new nation(s). I am looking forward to the new nations also, especially to the new machaka and pythium nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Cor]

Many kudos on Dominions 2 and 3. I am playing a multiplayer right now that is so dramatic that I find myself holding my breath while taking a turn. I have to remind myself to breath. Dom 2+3 are most likely the best games I have ever played, possibly just behind Fallout 1+2.

Anyway my vote is give some good national spells to Marverni, they are very weak right now IMHO. I really like them thematically however.

[Sombre]

There's a mod adding new spells to Marverni in the mod forum. Just so you know.

[NTJedi]

The movie 300 has been released in the USA this weekend... not sure how long before it arrives in your country, but watching this movie might also spring new ideas for the upcoming patches.

[Sombre]

I was thinking of doing a blood-favouring war-hungry EA arco replacement nation myself. Not inspired by 300, but similar themes I suppose.

[Gandalf Parker]

If you do then you have two choices (probably more if I thought about it).

(1) a balanced nation suitable for playing against other unmodded nations in the game

(2) a wildly unbalanced nation meant as a more powerful AI opponent

Both have their difficulties. With (1) its hard to do good balance. With (2) its hard to get it to make best use of the AI code.

[Endoperez]

I like the descriptions the most. I don't actually have time to play much now, and haven't actually played that much in years - but I've enjopyed the stories and the developing world quite a lot. While modding has added a little to this since DomII, most of it has been done by Kristoffer, not Johan.

As for what I'd like to see, I'm most curious about between-ages things like what really happened with the Seal in the caves of Agartha, or some explanation about the origin of the Umbrals. Heroes are the simplest way of adding nation-spesific, semi-hidden descriptions, of course. *hint hint*




P.S. I'd like to add that there was a really cool piece of news about Sweden in Finnish television today. Your country has a great immigration policy, and I'm not sure if Finland would be ready for a black woman as minister. Finland is a long, long way behind Sweden in accepting different people. It seems Vanheim is overpowered even in the real world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sombre]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif That's a strange thing to say to me Gandalf. There are several mod nations which attempt to be balanced against the vanilla standards, including my last 3. I haven't seen any which were designed to be used only by the AI (although Amos' nations aren't balanced to vanilla standards).

[Gandalf Parker]

Wasnt it DrPraetorious that did a bunch of nations which sparked balance discussions. Based on back-and-forth discussions I thought he had decided to leave them unbalanced. In fact, I thought the whole thing culminated in
Mass Mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3smm&Number=470139&Forum= ,f195&Words=balance&Searchpage=3&Limit=50&Main=470 139&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&ne werval=5&newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev =1#Post470139)

[Sombre]

Right, but I don't think he's working on it any more because of the graphics limitation coded into dom3. I could be wrong.

I've personally come to the conclusion that it's sort of pointless as well - combining Amos' mods with other mods doesn't make that much sense and you can simply find or edit mods that work together as combos. Plus there actually aren't that many 'serious' nations added for each age - for example the late modcombo I listed is only missing Frank's Amazons (excluding Amos' LA nations, which I believe should be used as a seperate combo).

As for the doctor's nations - I only see the two recently released ones, both of which are in beta, lacking graphics etc. The nations he listed in the combined mod proposal, as far as I know, haven't been released. It's possible that there are a great many mods which people have half finished or not gotten around to posting up, many of which could be very good. I prefer to let people play while I knock up new versions, but some people prefer to wait until they're completely (or very nearly) finished before uploading, such as Zepath.

[merlinme]

To return somewhat to the original theme: Kristoffer was hoping for some inspiration to get him into writing some fun new background stuff for Dom3. A couple of ideas that spring to mind (dunno if they're practical but hopefully they're at least slightly interesting):

1) how about a nation which worships horrors? complete with the option to take a pretender based on a horror chassis.

2) how about a nation based loosely on the Wizard of Earthsea series? I realise copyright is an issue, but in any case there would have to be significant modification to fit it into the Dom3 setup, so it would be more in the way of inspiration. But you could (for example) combine it with Greek legends of sailing to beef out the land troops and so on. The basic idea would be a sailing nation with strong wizards. The wizards would be air/earth/water, perhaps with a bit of death thrown in. Perhaps you could make it an undead nation in one of the ages, say a necromancer has been successful in subjugating the archipelago, and the dead now rule.

The best wizards should be capital only, to keep them expensive (and rare), but much weaker witches and warlocks should be easily available. Priests should be average or weak, but capital wizards should have weak priestly powers as well (to represent their powers over spirits, and the respect in which they are held).

If you brought in inspiration from sources like the Odyssey and Jason and the Argonauts, or even Sinbad the Sailor, I would have thought you could have a nation with a really interesting background.

[Cor]

I like the horror worship idea.
I think if a nation worshipped horror, the horrors would not care. It would be cool to have the nation a little over powered and balance it with all commanders starting with heavy horror marks, to reflect the intrinsic danger of worshiping the astral sociopaths who dont even understand the concept of loyalty.

[Nick_K]

How much of an issue is copyright? I believe Illithids are copyrighted by WotC, for one thing.
I think someone suggested some nations based on middle-eastern mythology (or was it the arabian nights... I forget) a while back. i don't know much about it myself, but I think it'd be cool.

[DrPraetorious]

Kristoffer, do you have anything general in mind for the other nation nbrs you've reserved? If you've cooled to whatever ideas you had originally, we might have suggestions (or just "no, that's cool! Do it!").

Generally, whatever Kristoffer does is cool - I've been looking forward to the new nations. New ideas? Hm...

One example that was raised: Amos' horror-worshipping nation is quite good. It needs playtesting, balancing, etc. There are some additional mod commands needed (units recruited horrormarked, units who are technically horrors in addition to magicbeings,) but does Kristoffer need to do another horror nation? Amos is the only one who does pixel art which is up to Kristoffer's standards, so I don't think so.

What do I think is *missing*? Persians (Caelum, Abyssia and Marignon all show some degree of persian *influence*, but it's not the same), Sumerians/Babylonians/Arabs, Korea, Indochina, Phoenicia/Carthage, Russia (Jotunheim sorta), Two more nations of China (for romance of the three kingdoms), insect people, fire giants and goblins.

If *I* were to put those together, I'd add:
- arabic jinn, children of Catharsis. Everyone is ethereal, so your light cavalry are survivable (also they live on bones and dust, so no supplies). Ifrit are evil jinn, fallen children of Anthrax.

- persian and/or phoenician fire giants. You get white robed mages, fire/water/astral.

- russian goblins. Lots of wolf riders. In the LA, inherits the magic of the spheres from pythium - is a communion power.

- thai/chinese bug people. The males are big six-limbed warriors and the females are hot psychadelically-colored human women with butterfly wings for no reason.

In terms of nations that play differently-
- A nation that freespawns troops, but still pays money for mages (and maybe for sacred elites or something.) Like Pangaea, except that the maenad-equivalent makes up 90% of your army.
- A nation that pays money for troops, but only summons mages for gems never money. LE Ulm is almost like this.

But if he's got a cool drawing, that's probably a better basis for a new nation than all of this comparitive folklore or game mechanics.

aside: WotC tries to exert some amorphous IP control over illithids. They might try to stop you from using the term in a title but they can't stop you from using the term otherwise (Johnson and Johnson can't stop me from calling something a Band-Aid in my fictional setting, for example.)

[Wish]

merlinme said:
1) how about a nation which worships horrors? complete with the option to take a pretender based on a horror chassis.




this could loosely be applied to a new nation mod I am working on built around the shadow seers of nexus.

[Gandalf Parker]

Nick_K said:
How much of an issue is copyright? I believe Illithids are copyrighted by WotC, for one thing.
I think someone suggested some nations based on middle-eastern mythology (or was it the arabian nights... I forget) a while back. i don't know much about it myself, but I think it'd be cool.



Shrapnel is a game publishing corporation. So they cannot be seen as ingoring other game creators copyrights. But being copyrighted doesnt mean you cant use it. It only means that you cant use it without permission.

In the case of MODs where it was clear that they used items from other games they were either deleted from shrapnels forums or the person got permission to use the images/sounds/names etc.

[TirAsleen]

i rather would like to see more undead nations, blood nations, in general more evil stuff. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nix]

Nick_K said:

I think someone suggested some nations based on middle-eastern mythology (or was it the arabian nights... I forget) a while back. i don't know much about it myself, but I think it'd be cool.



I thought that was cool as well. Here's how I see it:

First era could be "pre-Islamic" type, camels and nomads, Moon-worshippers with djinn summons... their magic site could be Irem, City of Pillars, as described by Lovecraftian lore - it would add a touch of Death to an otherwise Astral nation.

The Middle Era could be inspired by 1001 Nights and the Caliphate: Sinbad and Sheherazade-esque heroes, elemental mages on flying carpets, horseback sheiks, assassins, lesser djinni, ghouls, etc.

The Late Era nation, finally, might be based on the Barbary Coast, with pirates and Beys... perhaps with sailing? It would of course be primarily a Water nation, but Blood or Death could be added along with slave traders, or there could be a further emphasis on the "desert" aspect to add Fire magic.

[Aleph]

I'd like to see a blood nation who has taken Crossbreeding to a whole new level. I love the randomness mechanic that crossbreeding brings to certain blood nations as it is, but I'd like to see some nation which went overboard with it, such that their nationals are crossbred units themselves (not necessarily the same units as those created by the crossbreeding spell, but with similar attributes). Many gameworlds include a faction/nation which uses biology/fleshcrafting in favor of chemistry/physics; Dominions could use one.

Blood/Nature/Astral are obvious schools, to make and dominate life. National spells would obviously include improved versions of Crossbreeding (perhaps as simple as versions which include effective Luck bonuses already, perhaps something more complex), Flesh Golem summons, a hierarchy of single-to-AoE spells which would warp and mutate enemy soldiers into maddened amalgams. I'd also like to see a "selective crossbreeding" spell with which two units of the caster's choice have their attributes randomly merged, but that seems risky and like it might stretch the code.

Their key (likely capital only) mage should freespawn crossbreeds similar to how Pangea gets Maenads (although I'd think basing their numbers on Growth, rather than Turmoil, would be more thematically appropriate) - clearly, you wouldn't want to allow for Basilisk / Dracolion / etc, but the basic crossbreeds are still kind of cool. Their more generic mages might be based physically on the Freak Lord.

I'd also like to give them a Doppleganger character which is both assassin and spy at once, with excellent stealth and fear to make up for fairly normal physical attributes.

Missile troops should be limited to poison spitters (perhaps a light skirmisher unit, and a more artillery-like unit capable of multiple poison shots/round). I'd love for them to have biological weapons as well (similar to Plague), but that seems much too powerful for a recruitable.

Maybe their heavy regular troop could have poison spines similar to Armor of Twisting Thorns.

Ermmm... that's all for now.

[lch]

Aleph said:
I'd like to see a blood nation who has taken Crossbreeding to a whole new level. I love the randomness mechanic that crossbreeding brings to certain blood nations as it is, but I'd like to see some nation which went overboard with it, such that their nationals are crossbred units themselves (not necessarily the same units as those created by the crossbreeding spell, but with similar attributes). Many gameworlds include a faction/nation which uses biology/fleshcrafting in favor of chemistry/physics; Dominions could use one.


Ohh, that reminds me of "X-Com 2: Terrors from the deep". Maybe it overlaps with R'lyeh / Call Of Ctuhulu a bit, but maybe it could be a good inspiration anyway.

[Cor]

How about a race of cat people, who look like the Egyptian Godess Bast or God Sekamat. They could be in the Persian culture. Very good with ranged and stealth, Would have assasins and spies. Warriors would be lion headed and slow, but capable of beserk.

[Wish]

call me a purist, but ancient Egypt != Persia.

I think Persia would be more Zoroastrianism - though some of those aspects are incorporated into arcosephale. There was actually a fairly decent persia mod for dom 2.

If you want to do an ancient egypt, have it be egyptian - all animal headed sacreds and pharoahs or son of the sun for pretenders.

[Cor]

Wish said:
call me a purist, but ancient Egypt != Persia.

I think Persia would be more Zoroastrianism - though some of those aspects are incorporated into arcosephale. There was actually a fairly decent persia mod for dom 2.

If you want to do an ancient egypt, have it be egyptian - all animal headed sacreds and pharoahs or son of the sun for pretenders.



No your right, I just want to see race of cat people. I think they would have fit Egypt better than lizards, but since egypt is taken Persia was the next best.

Making the Persians Cat people is no less arbtrary than having the egyptians as lizard men. None of the major egytian gods were lizards withthe possible excetion of SET. Apep was an egyptian demon, and a serpent. It was never worshipped however.

Anyway in D&D there was the Persian Cat people where they called Rakasha ? that was the inspiration for the suggestion.

[Aleph]

Sobek.

I'm curious why you want cat people. As a visual, I suppose it's nice, but similarly potent nations already exist. Unless you want to go up against Ermor so you can stage Lion-O battles vs. Mumm-Ra, the Invincible!!!

[Wish]

obviously its because hes a huge fan of "Baby Cakes" and Brad Kneely

Click for reference (http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BB27403137090474 207D913370EB80B1B7)

[Wish]

(also already mictlan has c-c-cat people. Alright!)

[Sombre]

I made a mod (Avernum) which contains several catmen (nephil) units. Just so you know.

[Endoperez]

Cor said:Anyway in D&D there was the Persian Cat people where they called Rakasha ? that was the inspiration for the suggestion.



"Rakshasa" probably just means "demon". It's from the general direction of India/Sri Lanka. The EA Lanka nation has various demons, but I don't think any have feline features.

[Edi]

Wrong, Endo. Palankasha is a tiger-headed demon, and the Manyusha Rakshasi has a leonine mane, even if it has little resemblance to lions otherwise.

If we wanted to have a Persian/Egyptian type cat people nation, the Tigrans from AoW2 and AoW:SM were pretty much that style, so something similar might work, with FAS magics being the most common, having assassins and spies.

[Aleph]

Rakshasas and Rakshasa Warriors are both Lankan summons.

DnD does indeed have the Rakshasa. It's natural form looks like a humanoid tiger. Stats below.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm

The Tigrans were a savage race - if I recall they had some of the strongest domination/enslavement abilities in the game, with an extra focus on illusion as well.

[MaxWilson]

RE: New nation themes.

I'm currently re-reading Steven Erikson's Malazan novels, and cool ideas there include:

1.) T'lan Imass: Humanity's predecessors (think Neanderthals) turned themselves into undead to prosecute a genocidal war against their tyrannical oppressors, the Jaghut. 300,000-year-old Neanderthal zombies obsessed with fighting tyranny. They use Tellann, once the Warren (magic-source, kind of) of Fire but now the Warren of Ash. They've outlived their own gods and most of their purpose and pretty much want to declare victory and fall into dust. Very tragic. Their shamans are called Bonecasters and each have a totem animal they can transform into--think giant undead gorillas, panthers twelve feet long, etc.--in addition to being fierce spellcasters. Oh, and T'lan Imass (before the undead Ritual of Tellann they were just called the Imass, and the glottal stop in T'ellan seems to mean "broken") can also turn into dust (which they should have been long ago, were it not for the Ritual) and travel quickly on the winds that way. They fight with giant flint swords and occasionally giant undead prehistoric wolves called T'lan Ay as allies.

2.) The Jaghut are few, powerful and solitary, but respond to blood ties and reunite when a family member comes under attack. They mostly use Omtose Phellack, the Warren of Ice. They're also all dead except for a handful in hiding, and a number of half-breeds called Jhag. They average 7 feet tall or so and have tusks and green skin.

3.) Teblor are giant barbarian horse-warriors with slow regeneration and four lungs (and perhaps other differences from humanity), who reach maturity at 80+ and live for hundreds of years. They live by raiding each other but are starting to discover the world beyond their borders. Early on when you first meet them they're talking about their desire to kill hundreds of children; turns out that's their term for humans, because of their relative size. Also turns out they're the remnants of a fallen civilization called the Thelomen Toblakai, and were originally contemporaries with the Imass 300,000 years ago. Pureblood Thelomen Toblakai were bigger, though, 18+ feet tall instead of 8-9. Corruption of the bloodlines is a big theme for them.

4.) Tiste Andii, Tiste Edur, and Tiste Liosaan are three branches of long-lived beings who've fled here from a civil war on their own world. They represent Darkness, Shadow, and Light respectively. The civil war has something to do with the Andii feeling betrayed that Mother Dark created Light and Shadow. The three branches don't get along. Tiste Andii are fatalistic and uncaring, Tiste Liosaan are arrogant and inflexible, Tiste Edur are primitive and bloodthirsty. Tiste Andii have a reputation as deadly assassin/mages, and are skilled at magics of darkness and destruction, but don't go in for reanimating undead or anything.

5.) The Malazans are a recently-risen human empire which ideologically kind of resembles the Communist revolution in China (purges of the bourgeois nobility are still ongoing) and militarily resembles the Roman Empire (esp. in attitude, either offering friendship to a beaten foe and removing the causes of strife, or else destroying it utterly: no better friend and no worse enemy). Kind of light on the mage artillery, but with very professional troops.

There are several other races/factions in the Malazan story, too. Anyway, at the very least it would make a very cool mod, and might stir the creative juices. The actual powers of e.g. the T'lan Imass aren't anything especially novel (well okay, frozen ice zombies are more common than fire zombies), but their motivations for becoming undead ARE novel and that's what makes a good story. Or Dominions theme, as the case may be, with e.g. the war between the Vanir and the Niefel giants.

-Max

[sube]

This has already been pointed out somewhere else by several people, but just as a reminder... There's currently a limit cap of ~110 new sprites for mods, game crashes if there are more than 110. Can this limit be raised to, like, a lot more?

[Taqwus]

25th march
* Can use monthly cast multiple site search spells of the same type.
* Some monsters were not always unparalyzed properly, fixed.

21st march
* Ritual of Rebirth didn't work with 15 size Hall of Fame, fixed.
* Wild Hunt and some more spells were buggy when attacking besieging armies, fixed.
* Magic site fixes, armor fixes, age fixes, hero fixes, unit fixes from edi's list
* Y-fix
* No looming devils under water
* Summon barghest & black dogs switched
* Province defense overflow fix
* Esc works when right side menu is hidden
* H-shortcut didn't work
* Marverni & me Man temples cost 200
* TC nation descr fix

I see much spiffiness here.

[vfb]

First, please let me say that this game is incredibly cool! And I've just barely scratched the surface.

One thing that I did some across was that my Wyrm was afflicted with a 'limp' battle wound. I'm not sure if it is intentional to have limping Wryms. It's not like it 'lost an arm', but it does make me laugh when I try to come up with a mental picture of a limping Wrym.

[K]

I also wanted to say that this is the most complex turn-based strategy game I've ever played, and that its successful in that endeavor is a masterstroke. Any additional work done by the developers is just icing on the cake for us.

That being said, I'd pay another $40 if a diplomacy screen was implemented on par with Alpha Centauri (or even MOO, really).

[Kristoffer O]

Hi, I'm in the mood again. I have a one week easter break. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Finished last two days:

Tir na n'Og - Land of the Ever Young. Firbolg ruled by Tuatha.

Eriu - Last of the Tuatha
When men came (Man and the Milesians) the Tuatha withdrew. One part of their kingdom became Man. The lands conquered by the milesians became Eriu, a nation of humans, Fir Bolg and Sidhe.

[Kristoffer O]

I'm quite fond of the Malazan books. There is a vague reference to the T'lan Imass in the spell 'Hidden in Snow' and the unfrozen.

I will not make a nation based on the books, but I would love to see a mod on in that setting.

[Gandalf Parker]

Kristoffer O said:
Hi, I'm in the mood again. I have a one week easter break. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Finished last two days:

Tir na n'Og - Land of the Ever Young. Firbolg ruled by Tuatha.

Eriu - Last of the Tuatha
When men came (Man and the Milesians) the Tuatha withdrew. One part of their kingdom became Man. The lands conquered by the milesians became Eriu, a nation of humans, Fir Bolg and Sidhe.



Sweet. Got some forwarning on the nation # they are assigned to? Is Eriu the Middle Age of Early Age Tir na n'Og?

What does that do to Fomoria? Still coming?

[llamabeast]

Wow! This is really exciting. Really looking forward to seeing them.

So I guess Tir na n'Og is EA, and Eriu is MA. So Tir na n'Og isn't called EA Man because it splits into both Man and Eriu?

What're Milesians?

Are Sidhe faeries in Dominions? Or something else?

All very exciting.

[Kristoffer O]

Sidhe are quite similar to the Vanir, an ancient magical race superior to men skilled in the use of glamour and illusions. It could be that they share the same ancestry.

Tir na n'Og do indeed split into Man and Eriu. Eriu being somewhat similar to the Last of Tuatha from dom2 with humans (milesians) ruled by reemerging Sidhe Lords.

Fomoria will emerge eventually. They too have Fir Bolg inhabitants, but will have some other more sinister allies as well.

[MaxWilson]

Kristoffer O said:
I'm quite fond of the Malazan books. There is a vague reference to the T'lan Imass in the spell 'Hidden in Snow' and the unfrozen.

I will not make a nation based on the books, but I would love to see a mod on in that setting.



Oooh, I may start using Hidden in Snow just so I can pretend they're Imass. And this may be the motivation I need to take up modding--as soon as the semester's over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

-Max

[HoneyBadger]

This is just a bump to show Kristoffer O that we're still here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

While I have been a long time player of dominions, the only encouragement i can give is, make dom IV, with some of the improvements and i will personally buy 3 copies!

Improved scripting for the mages, ie only using gems if scripted option, only casting offensive spells as an option, etc, and improved ai, not casting touch of madness on other mages and missile troops, alone would be enough for me to buy dom IV.

[Shovah32]

Add in a cheesy plastic maenad and i'll buy 2 copies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[HoneyBadger]

I'll either buy 9 signed copies, or I'll convince others to do so.

[Sombre]

I might buy one. But only if the game is substantially advanced from Dom3 and not just a big patch. Call me the voice of reason ;]

[Gandalf Parker]

Well we havent been disappointed yet.
You know I have to have my 5 copies.

[HoneyBadger]

I'm a very reasonable person-however, the whole of my reasonable nature is channeled and focused into maintaining a successful marriage. I just don't have anything left over.

[Sombre]

I /will/ pay you 10 bucks for the vanilla graphics in a big zip though ;]

[Oblivious]

An ancient Egypt variant not focused on cat-men (or variants) could be fun (though I like the cat idea mentioned early for another variant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif). Perhaps heavy on archers through early and middle at least, with better bows in the middle period. Light chariots with archers in early and middle. Mix with "successor" forces in late period, adding phalangites (perhaps with lesser quality than Arcosephalae) and elephants. Most troops (at least early and middle) would be lightly armoured, perhaps armoured archers in middle as an option, and some heavy infantry at least by middle period (Royal Shardana guards, perhaps an axe and khopesh-armed variant here). Regular infantry would be spears early and middle. Priests/priestesses might vary with astral and death specialities. Could add some baboons, snakes, scorpions etc. for more fantasy element, whatever seemed fun to work with. Sacreds would include chariot archers (perhaps prince as sacred chariot-archer general, and/or Pharaoh as another general or as another Pretender option). Could keep chariots into late period just to have a sacred, but otherwise something else for sacreds, maybe one of the fantasy troop options.

Also I'd suggest an addition of some kind of light horse for Arcosephale (modelled on Athenian light horse early, lancers and Thessalians later?), would add a bit of fitting colour to the Arco forces without unbalancing so far as I could see at least.

It would be nice to have more of the random personalities show up also, not stronger heroes but just more variety? At least I find that one fun aspect of the game, more for colour than "power" as heroes I get seem weak but a fun addition anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm sure ideas for more nations could be endless, but not sure how many extras might be added to Dominions III? Don't want to overload with suggestions that are not wanted/needed at least. Thanks for asking for the input/encouragement btw, & creating a very fun and different turn-based strategy game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

I'm just bumping this one because there hasn't been anything added to the progress page for 10 days now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

Remember, Kristoffer, skiing can be dangerous-look what happened to Sunny Bono?

Improving Dominions 3 is profitable, and very safe-if anyone ever tried to harm you or Johan, we'd probably rip them limb from limb-or shoot them, most of us are Americans.

[Leif_-]

Kristoffer O said:
One campaign and one game. I'm not that good at focusing on one project. The game is about trolls in a scandinavian setting influenced by the artist John Bauer. http://runeberg.org/jbauer/01.jpg



A bit of a tangent, but for inspiration you might want to check out the Norwegian RPG Draug (http://www.avalon.no/shopitem.cfm?path=9,300&id=49874).

[Cor]

HoneyBadger said:
Remember, Kristoffer, skiing can be dangerous-look what happened to Sunny Bono?

Improving Dominions 3 is profitable, and very safe-if anyone ever tried to harm you or Johan, we'd probably rip them limb from limb-or shoot them, most of us are Americans.



Oh yes, If we have learned anything since 2001 is that us Americans excel at violence of all types. We are #1! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[HoneyBadger]

Yes, not only are we ignorant, backward, religious hicks, we've all got atleast 3 guns in every room of our house.

[Gandalf Parker]

Dont forget chewing gum and monolingual. Those are also very common in american jokes.

[Caduceus]

Mono... What? I can't understand them hi-falutin' words. Speak plain Anglish.

[Foodstamp]

I am glad the world believes everything they see on TV. It would be a dangerous place if people thought for themselves.

[Tyrant]

Dont' trash tolk Amerikins or bye gawd ill shot you lik it says is my write in the second amendment to the wholly bible.

[HoneyBadger]

Most Americans I know speak atleast some Spanish.

I personally speak a little Spanish-stilted, but enough to get by, follow a conversation, more than not, and to swear, German-3 years of it in school, a little French-there have been a lot of French ladies in my life and I was buddies with a French translator, Japanese and Latin-a few words and phraises, and Italian-just enough to swear.

I owned two rifles that I inherited from my grandfather, briefly, but they were stolen, and it's been a good 15 years since I've shot a gun. I don't like chewing gum, but I do every once in a while, to guard against halitosis.

Americans speak American, and American isn't English, it's English plus every other word we happen to like from every other language.

The problem with Americans isn't that we hate other people-we're not Nazis by ANY means, and there are plenty of savage, genocidal racists and religious tyrants out beyond our borders. It's that we were isolationists for a couple hundred years, and that was for our own good and protection at the time. We welcome other cultures-infact if we have a defining trait, it's our willingness to borrow other cultures, not because they're our neighbors', but because they're interesting and help us define our individual selves-and we're very open to new ideas, but it's important to us that we make them our own, and that we stay in our own "safety zone"-however we define that.

[Velusion]

Tyrant said:
Dont' trash tolk Amerikins or bye gawd ill shot you lik it says is my write in the second amendment to the wholly bible.



Ok - that one made me laugh.... and I'm from Texas...

[HoneyBadger]

I should add that in many states in the US, it's perfectly legal to shoot foreigners on sight, as long as you're using a 14 or higher guage shotgun, or black powder, and infact, to kill anyone-provided that it can be proven they happened to need killing at the time.

[RamsHead]

And what's wrong with that? If someone is robbing me, I have every right to defend myself.

[Beorne]

US is a weird place ...

[Cor]

Beorne said:
US is a weird place ...



Yeah, its kinda like the movie Mad Max mixed with Sartre's No Exit.

[Foodstamp]

Beorne said:
US is a weird place ...



What you see on the news is not America. If all of America was like it is portrayed in the news, well then the stories would not be news worthy. The United States of America is a great country and I am proud to live here. For every bad story you see on tv, I guarantee there are thousands of good stories that happen here that you would never hear about, because those stories will not keep you glued to the television.

Although some of our more liberal allies lament and speak against us, always know that our country will be there for you just like we have been in the past. Our country has always weathered criticism and mockery, and in turn we have liberated the mockers, and we have fed the criticizers in their time of need.

Carry on.

[Gandalf Parker]

And many of our critisizers are americans with a long list of qualifications for being able to critisize. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[thejeff]

Having just typed a deleted a long reply to Foodstamps post, we probably should just drop this discussion. It's way off topic and not likely to encourage Kristoffer.

Which was supposed to be the purpose of this thread?

[Leif_-]

I suggest we start discussing gnu control. How come there are no gnus in Dominions? There are horses, unicorns, elephants, even moose, but no gnus. Do Illwinter secretly campaign for increased governmental gnu control? Which nation would make the best use of armour-clad gnu-mounted cavalry? Should you ever bring a knife to a gnu-fight?

[MaxWilson]

Bravo, Foodstamp! It takes guts to speak up and defend something that everyone else is making fun of, even good-naturedly. What's more, encouraging national pride is the best way to strengthen national ideals.

"I learned that it is the weak who are cruel, and that mercy is only to be expected from the strong." (Leo Rosten) America has always responded generously to praise and gratitude, but ingratitude is a poison. Much as we pretend it doesn't matter to us, America really does want to be liked.

-Max

[Cor]

'Cough'
I shall hold my tounge...

[Szumo]

I'd love to see a nation based on Slavic mythology in one of future patches.

[okiN]

I remember hearing there likely would be one? I think there was also some talk of a Finnish-themed nation.

[DrPraetorious]

Heh. I just put in a request for info from the military buffs on 13th century slavic armies (I'm better with folklore than military history myself.)

That said, I'd love to see some russians.

[B0rsuk]

Szumo said:
I'd love to see a nation based on Slavic mythology in one of future patches.



I'd like to remember you that I'm researching slavic mythology (what's left of it, anyway... christianity devastated it too much and it's very fragmented. There are no proofs that there was even one slavic mythology, in the sense that it's not consistent enough.)

Have a look here (Dom2 mod forum). I'd like to read your comments.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=394032&page=1&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I have more free time now. All that is left: please motivate me :-).

[HoneyBadger]

Just to tie everything together-for the benefit of the off-topic police-how come noone ever suggests an American style nation? Besides purely Native American ofcourse. I'm sure some clever person could come up with a nation based on the early settlers, tall tales, and the mixture of imported and native legends and myths.

We used to have a great early history section in the library of my home town. The stupid so-and-sos replaced it all with romance novels, but there was some fascinating stuff in there. Stories from tribes you've never heard of, stories about faeries in the new world, and devils and witches from the Puritans and others, all sorts of surprising things.

You wouldn't have to use guns, either. There were swords forged right here in the 'States for the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. A man named Nathan Starr is perhaps the most famous American swordsmith, but their were others. We also had the Bowie knife and the steel tomahawk, both American inventions.

[TwoBits]

Perhaps you have an idea there, HoneyBadger:

An Early Era, totally pre-Columbian North American civilization, a Mid Era, 'we've got horses now' plains civilization, and that sort of 'Last of the Mahicans' combo civilization for Late Age.

Sounds interesting.

[B0rsuk]

Umm... Mictlan ?

[Foodstamp]

None of those descriptions fit Mictlan.

[vfb]

TwoBits, Haida Gwai fits the EA civ I think.

[Foodstamp]

Haida Gwaii represents the first peoples of the Pacific Northwest with a small bit of influence from Inuit and southwestern Native American tribes.

Native American tribes are so diverse it would be a little bit of a challenge to create a nation that represents them, although I do think it is possible. One thing is definitely certain though; North American tribes had very little in common with the Central America empires that Mictlan represents. They are like night and day.

[okiN]

TwoBits said:An Early Era, totally pre-Columbian North American civilization, a Mid Era, 'we've got horses now' plains civilization, and that sort of 'Last of the Mahicans' combo civilization for Late Age.



How on earth does this fit into Dominions? Everything except the first one, and even on that one you have to go way back, is gunpowder era. There's no place for it in the game.

[TwoBits]

Whadda you mean, there's no place for it?

The Plains Indians had horses for generations before they had access to guns, or had much, if any, contact with white men (so middle age is no problem).

As far as the late era goes, give it any back story you want. I like the idea of fusing it with Marignon (renegade, "we don't like blood and demons" colonists, perhaps?). Would go well with the whole 'missionary' aspect. Think the French influence in Canada for inspiration.

[okiN]

Eh, I can't help but see it as an attempt to force American history into a game based on a time when American history didn't even exist yet. I do think that a Plains Indian -based nation whose troops have desert/forest survival, plenty of stealth and strong nature, death and fire magic could fit into EA quite well. National Manitou summons etc. could also be used.

[Kristoffer O]

A slavic nation is not unlikely the next one, beside fomoria that is.

I have the general ideas finished, I think, but you might get a PM or two, Borsuk, if you don't mind.

I got the Eliade Encyclopedia of Religion (15 nice volumes) this winter, but it is a bit limited regarding folklore.

Yesterday discovered that there is an encyclopedia of finno-ugric mythology translated to english 2003.

[okiN]

Kristoffer O said:Yesterday discovered that there is an encyclopedia of finno-ugric mythology translated to english 2003.



Score. Can't wait to see Väinämöinen as a national hero. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[HoneyBadger]

I'd be happy to help out with the Slavic mythology research as well. It's something I've been trying to piece together myself (as much as is possible) ever since I became interested in Russian myth, and through that (what there is left of *that* tradition) the rest of Eastern Europe.

[Velusion]

One nation that is really missing is another pure water nation for the Late Age.

In my mind I'm thinking humanoid sharks with a heavy military empire and lots of blood magic... The Red Sea Empire or something like that.

[Edi]

Kristoffer O said:
Yesterday discovered that there is an encyclopedia of finno-ugric mythology translated to english 2003.


That rocks!

Kristoffer, if you intend to pursue something along those lines, feel free to ask me stuff. I have a fairly good grasp of some parts of Finnish folklore, especially our mythology about gnomes, elves and suchlike beings. It's been almost 20 years since I read a good part of one of THE primary sources on the subject (written sometime in the 40s or 50s when there were still a lot of old folks who remember that stuff alive) for a school project and I've not forgotten all that much of it.

[B0rsuk]

Kristoffer O said:
A slavic nation is not unlikely the next one, beside fomoria that is.

I have the general ideas finished, I think, but you might get a PM or two, Borsuk, if you don't mind.




I wouldn't be offended at all. I can even do some extra research if needed. I have a lot of stuff on my head and mostly lack motivation, not time, to work on it.
I have some ideas that could make the nation a bit more unique, including national spells which probably can't be done without access to source code.
Being a native polish speaker I can understand some websites written in other slavic languages, although those using russian letters are a bit trickier (Still, I was learning Russian several years ago and I can read it somewhat slowly. Ukrainian is easier. My mother finished both ukrainistics and russicistic studies and can be great help.)


Some random thoughts:
- Some kind of huge bear would be very cool and very thematic national hero. Animal Awe, recuperation (bears were believed to heal quickly, not without reason), large standard, sacred, boosted MR to compensate for no leadership and poor slots.
- Some kind of commanders who attract or summon bears, just not as fast as wolves because that would be overpowered.

Wolves, and especially bears are one of very thematic animals for this nation. Bear is national symbol of Russia, to.

Likho (Licho), personification of misfortune I mentioned in Dom2 modding thread... I have a song here by Ukrainska Lira. It's about Bieda (poverty). Lyrics, combined with a legend from my city (Gdansk) lead me to believe that Likho is as much a spirit of misfortune as poverty. I think it is safe to say that eastern Europe and russia, and slavic tribes were often quite poor.
It would be great if it could combine stealth with instill uprising ability and #causebadevents (no such ability).

Don't forget mushroom lore, herbalism and healing. Comparing to other nations, slavic nations still have good knowledge of mushrooms. Looking for mushrooms to eat, alone or with family, is a popular pasttime.

PM me for more thoughts if you have some. If possible, I'd prefer to avoid spoiling too much in public.

Demonology (NOT blood magic, the demons were usually more neutral than evil, and often could be reasoned with or at least tricked) would certainly be one of pros of this nation. Lots of national summons. Forest/Swamp survival. Possibly even global enchantment or immobile freespawns in forest/swamp.

Finally, no one says that the 'slavic' nation has to be a carbon copy of your typical slavic nation ! You can mix any weird ideas as long as it makes the nation interesting and playable. Slavic/Tuareg mix would be crazy :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg

[okiN]

Funny, many of the charasteristics you mention could easily apply to Fenno-Ugrics as well (Mushrooms and herbalism, forest survival), and they also considered bears to be the most sacred of all animals as they represented ancestral spirits. So this could be reasonably applied to both, with the two nations then having other attributes that set them apart from each other.

[Kristoffer O]

The finno-ugric and especially sami bear cult (together with the intriguingly similar ainu bear cult) is perhaps the most bear-dedicated one. The slavic cult seem less directed towards the bear in particular, and more towards the forest in general, with bears as a symbolic representation.

Bears will probably appear in one form or another.

[okiN]

So, ah... are we feeling encouraged? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[HoneyBadger]

It's been a MONTH since any posted updates, so apparently not encouraged enough...

[llamabeast]

Don't be harsh Badger, things may well be going on behind the scenes, and we've had plenty of patch-y goodness lately anyway.

[Gandalf Parker]

There has been some interesting activity which would not quite go onto that update page.

[Edi]

The fact that nothing has been posted in publicly visible places does not mean that nothing is happening.

[HoneyBadger]

I do realize that. I just feel somehow that we're not doing enough to inspire the Devs...

[Kristoffer O]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[okiN]

See, I don't know how to interpret that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

I think he might have been agreeing with you

[HoneyBadger]

I think you should send him an expensive gift

[Kristoffer O]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[lch]

I think his keyboard is broken

[Meglobob]

No, he is just too busy working on the next patch worth of goodies to type more... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BandarLover]

Using Ich's logic, Kris O can apparently only type : P

Hmmmm.... : P, colon, p AHHA!! Colonoscopy! Kris O is obviously trying to tell us he's had a coloscopy and will resume work on next patch as soon as he has healed.

Damn I'm good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Daynarr]

I just think he likes gifts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

The Swedish love chocolate, jewelery, fine liquors, and luxury automobiles.

And so do I.

[Daynarr]

Who doesn't?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

Satan.

[Meglobob]

HoneyBadger said:
Satan.



But he invented all those... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[HoneyBadger]

I hate to break it to you, after your lifetime of abstinance, but the only things the devil invented were telemarketers, testicular cancer, interest rates above 5%, acne, fleas, and car commercials.

[Wikd Thots]

You mean that we are more creative and beat Satan at his own game? Yeah I guess I can go with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[HoneyBadger]

Well, that and people have funny ideas about a good time being evil.

Damn silly Puritans, still influencing people after they've all been dead for a quarter of a millenium.

[Kuritza]

A slavic nation would be awesome.

But pretty please, no heavy emphasis on bears!.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif That would be just too cliche. Bear-vodka-balalaika.... Hrrrrrrr.
Some random ideas for a slavic nation -
1) Early age paganism. Nature, Sun and Skies are worshipped, one of the major Gods of the pantheon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perun) being not unlike Odin of the Norse people. Magi (Volhv, pl Volhvy) - weakish astral mages and fortune tellers (bad events prevention) serving as priests. Spirits are seen everywhere. Military is represented by rather small, but well-trained retinues of the princes.
2) Middle age - contacts with Pythium are made, old faith is being replaced with a semi-christian one. Magi are being exterminated slowly. Composite bows are used widely, crossbows are known but not nearly as widespread, literacy is very common. Princedoms are *slowly* being united, cities are thriving, but...
3) Late age - nation is split by two, the western and the eastern. Cant tell much about the West, as for the easten one... Paganism is almost but-not-quite gone; same incursion that brought down the Tien Chi bureacracy nearly destroyed the country. Most major cities with libraries, cathedrals etc were burnt down and rebuilt. With the fall of Pythium (it fell just like Byzanthium, righ? A shame, if you ask me...) Church declared itself autonomous and heir to Pythium's and claimed considerable power. Archers with composite bows (crossbows are still known, but again, not widely used), medium to heavy infantry and medium cavalry compose a standing army. Constant incrusions both from the East and the West made people fiercely protective of their land. Conception of a 'bogatyr' arises - champion warrior, fighting for the people and the Church. I suggest giving these a prophet-like a dominion bonus, it represents the lore quite well.
And example of a LA national hero - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Peresvet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The painting isnt accurate though, according to the legend he wore only a monks vestment blessed by Saint Sergius since he was a man of cloth. ))
Saint Sergius himself - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_of_Radonezh
And, of course, the Three - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogatyr
The central one on the painting is also a canonized saint btw, officially up to this day.

Hope some of that may be helpful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S.

To think of it... what I described as a LA should be actually MA in regard to the Dominions timeline because Constantinople fell later. But then in LA this nation should have firearms http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif So I'd keep it as is, Sergius and the rest of them are somewhere in-between the MA and LA anyway.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah! save bears for Russia (and Haida). I like the saints idea.

[Gandalf Parker]

Stepping into saints could be a dangerous territory.

[HoneyBadger]

You don't have to use real names for saints. Or names period, just call them "saints". Or, for that matter, call them "Sanctus Majorus". Or whatever.

Make them undead with awe 0. Give them shrouds for armor and holy scourges for weapons.

[Kuritza]

Oh, you dont have to actually make them saints or say they are saints, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Just prophet-like health and strength bonus (and minus) for the Bogatyr warriors, and holy magic for the national heroes with appropriate background, should you, of course, decide to make ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bogatyr are not really saints except Ilya, they just draw strength from the home land they protect.
As for the reference to real historical figures somebody can see through.... the Three Bogatyr are absolutely free for usage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They are legendary heroes first and foremost. Make King Arthur a saint, people wont stop refering to him. Also, while Ilya the saint is known to be a warrior before he took up the wovs, and even his life really resembles that of a bogatyr Ilya, they are not officially aknowledged to be the same person. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Its just something people are free to believe (and usually do). And Peresvet isnt canonized, just a well-known and popular figure of a warrior monk.
And some more details (I just loved the idea, sorry for my persistance) )))
1) Early age - basically, what Bossuk said.
Awakened nature - talking animals, out of which bears are held in highest esteem. So yea, something about bears. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I liked the national hero Bossuk suggested. Michailo Potapych http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Non-blood demons, including the Leshiy (forest spirit, not evil but hating these who harm forest), Kikimora (evil swamp hag) etc.
Some unique summons, or just national heroes. Likho the One-eyed, manifestation of misery cursing people, causing diseases and bad luck. Baba Yaga, old witch flying in a magical mortar with a broom, eating children and such but occasionally helpful. Zmey (wyrm) Gorynych, three-headed dragon spitting fire. No magic, just a reptile defying laws both natural and criminal. Koshey the Immortal, ancient lich who hid his mortality in a needle, very malignant. Sometimes shown as rather proficient with a sabre. Grey Wolf - huge grey wolf who's actually an enspelled Prince, helpful spirit known to join questing heroes.
Mushrooms... hmm! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Perhaps mushroom lore as some extra supply bonus and ability to cure diseases for nature priests?
2) Middle age - new faith.
Bogatyr warriors and heroes, priests of the new Orthodox faith, as in Pythium. New religion is spreading mostly peacefully, but paganism is disapproved strongly, main reason why there are no statues in Orthodox churches is because monks didnt want their flock to see anything that might resemble idols of old. Magi of the earlier age made less powerful in holy magic and have problems predicting the future. Their influence dwindles fast, last of the Magi are actually exterminated by force - somewhere in the end of the 2nd era.
For the priests, I'd propose an unique ability, like the reverse Inquisitor. Priests skill is considered +1 when preaching in a friendly dominion to make it higher. No effect in enemy dominion. Magic wise, since the religion has a Pythium origin, I'd make them in the theurges image, but with nature instead of water. For MA, 'high priest' is S2 N1 ?1, Holy 2. There's also a dean, just a holy 1 lowly priest.
3) Pithium fell, slavic nation barely survived the Horde onslaught, but emerged victorious in the end. Good idea would be to make two distinct slavic nations, one for eastern slavs, one for western.
Ruler of the Eastern one married the last Pythium princess (analogue of Sophia Paleolog), proclaiming his country to be the Third Ermor (hehe, Pythium being the second). Pagan traditions are all but banned - some of the creatures maybe be still hiding in the wilds, but mages dont have the skills nor desire to traffic in pagain superstitions. If the new God wants to summon them - he had to contact the pagan spirits himself, Magi are extinct. On the brighter side, Church proclaimed itself heir to Pythium Orthodox church, keeping the ancient litanies and traditions, so angelic beings can be summoned.
Most expensive mage/priests are S3, A1, N1, Holy 3, ?1. Maybe S2 A2 N1. Less expensive one is S2, A1, N1, Holy 2. Then its S1, N1, Holy 2 and an Exorcist with Holy 2. (After all its a LA, undead and demons are everywhere etc)

Troop-wise, cossac cavalry may be added in LA. Perhaps also streltsy, just with a composite bow instead of an arquebus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streltsy
Red uniform, two-handed Bardiche (like a halberd, but more suitable for parrying), ranged weapon. Not sacred, of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Streltsy and recruitable bogatyr should be mutually exclusive in my opinion, though randomly appearing Bogatyr heroes are still present in any case, appearing time after time when the dominion is strong enough.
Nonhero bogatyr should be more properly named Vityas, to think of it...
Boyar cavalry, of course. Medium to heavy.
Also, in MA and EA holy banners are widely used. Standart with a face of God on it - http://www.androsov.com/luvranyo/ermako.JPG
Boosts morale, some protection against the undead/demon.

P.S.

Another suggestion for the slavic priest/mages of LA -
To think of it, there's no justification for the official priests to have nature magic as a guaranteed pick. Just Astral and Air (study of God in Pythium tradition), and some random.

But there's a good reason to make two different types of priest/mages - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Believers
The Old Believers were prosecuted, so oftentimes they settled in the wilds, minimizing (and sometimes even losing) any contacts with the outside world. These can possess decent knowledge of Nature magic, like N2S1 Holy 2 for example, no random pick.

[HoneyBadger]

Really good to see that the Fomorian nation is coming along-I can't wait for it to come out!

I'm excited about Marverni's updates too.

[Kristoffer O]

The pigs are quite fun. Had me a pig war yesterday.

[HoneyBadger]

And a pork roast last night?

[Aristander]

First Thank You Kristoffer for the best strategy fantasy game I have ever played including Master of Magic. I am now totally addicted to this game. The more I play the more different units I find. Its amazing. A Fomorian nation sounds great, as do the boars, I mean pigs. With big pointy tusks. gore gore.

[Kristoffer O]

I remade the ugly dom-ppp hydra yesterday. Felt really nice to get rid of it. It took some hours, but I'm quite happy with the result. Unfortunately it turned out so big that I had to make a smaller version. The big one will instead be a unique national summon with some nice quirks.

[Meglobob]

Kristoffer O said:
I remade the ugly dom-ppp hydra yesterday. Felt really nice to get rid of it. It took some hours, but I'm quite happy with the result. Unfortunately it turned out so big that I had to make a smaller version. The big one will instead be a unique national summon with some nice quirks.



Excellent, cool, really can't wait to see it.

Gives me a reason to play C'tis/Sauromatia, not played those yet.

[CelestialGoblyn]

Kuritza said:
3) Late age - nation is split by two, the western and the eastern. Cant tell much about the West, as for the easten one...



Western Slavic nation based on Poland, pretty please:)
And with added influences from Czech, Slovakian, Moravian and Hungarian areas.

Themes:Warlike nobles, unrest and frequent rebelions, restless peasantry, devil worship co-existing with religious zeal.

Units:
Weak levied infartry, cheap and decent medium cavalry,stealthy pillaging light cavalry, elite winged lancers, high mountain brigands, war wagons.
Heroes:
Mounted noblemen, mounted warrior priests, witches, mages consorting with the devil(Marignon influenced?), devil mage riding a giant rooster(legendary Polish occultist).
Summons:
Cocktarite, Bassilisk, Griffons, Drowned Zombies, Forest Devils, Devil Cavalry, Strigoi(wild vampires).

[Edi]

Kristoffer O said:
I remade the ugly dom-ppp hydra yesterday. Felt really nice to get rid of it. It took some hours, but I'm quite happy with the result. Unfortunately it turned out so big that I had to make a smaller version. The big one will instead be a unique national summon with some nice quirks.


Yay! Can't wait to see that one! Thank you!

[Ballbarian]

I was already a fan of the hydras, so I am really looking forward to the new beasts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Meglobob said:

Kristoffer O said:
I remade the ugly dom-ppp hydra yesterday. Felt really nice to get rid of it. It took some hours, but I'm quite happy with the result. Unfortunately it turned out so big that I had to make a smaller version. The big one will instead be a unique national summon with some nice quirks.



Excellent, cool, really can't wait to see it.

Gives me a reason to play C'tis/Sauromatia, not played those yet.



Sauromatia also has got a new hero. Seventh wife of Skögu. A Partholonian Sorceress slain, eaten and married by the Witch King.

[Gandalf Parker]

Kristoffer O said:
Sauromatia also has got a new hero. Seventh wife of Skögu. A Partholonian Sorceress slain, eaten and married by the Witch King.


In that order? Ewwww!

[Amhazair]

Gandalf Parker said:

Kristoffer O said:
Sauromatia also has got a new hero. Seventh wife of Skögu. A Partholonian Sorceress slain, eaten and married by the Witch King.


In that order? Ewwww!


Ah, the joys of civilisation... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[lch]

Those were the days, I tell you, those were the days...

[BigDisAwesome]

See nowadays the saying goes "If you find a good one hold onto her."

I guess back then it was "If you find a good one kill her, eat her, and marry her."

[LoloMo]

How about a race of mice, were mice, and Rat God?

Rat God: Stealthy, spreads disease, summons black mice, Death and Nature magic
Wererat: HI, LI, and commanders
Sewer Crone: death and nature mages
Hulking Rat: Sacred Rats the size of bears
Mother Mouse: Black mice Freespawn, stealthy, glutton, old age at 2 years.
Black mice: Stealthy, glutton, spreads disease, old age at 2years (will it drain the enemy province supplies?)

[MaxWilson]

Meglobob said:

Kristoffer O said:
I remade the ugly dom-ppp hydra yesterday. Felt really nice to get rid of it. It took some hours, but I'm quite happy with the result. Unfortunately it turned out so big that I had to make a smaller version. The big one will instead be a unique national summon with some nice quirks.



Excellent, cool, really can't wait to see it.

Gives me a reason to play C'tis/Sauromatia, not played those yet.



Wait, C'tis doesn't get hydras, does it? Outside of my private "house rules" mod, that is.

-Max

[Meglobob]

Kristoffer O said:Sauromatia also has got a new hero. Seventh wife of Skögu. A Partholonian Sorceress slain, eaten and married by the Witch King.



I have a few ex girlfriends who did that to me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

That settles it, I am playing Sauromatia with luck-3 after next patch.


MaxWilson said:Wait, C'tis doesn't get hydras, does it? Outside of my private "house rules" mod, that is.-Max



Your probably right Max, I was just guessing those were the nations Kristoffer was referring too. Like I said, I still have to try out those nations.

[HoneyBadger]

Wait, is Kristoffer O saying he updated the hydra for Dom 3 or Dom PPP???

Kristoffer O, what are you saying???

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

I'm saying that the old hydra was a ugly residual sprite from dom-ppp that I have hated for a couple of years. I have made a new one that pleases me a lot more. I need JK to make something work though, the hydra will have a nice new feature if JK doesn't protest.

[lch]

Kristoffer O said:
I need JK to make something work though, the hydra will have a nice new feature if JK doesn't protest.


Tell me that she can get an affliction to lose one of her heads, and regrow two new ones a couple of turns later! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[HoneyBadger]

That...would be....soooo very awesome!

[Blofeld]

LA Slavic-inspired nation could also go well with Hussite flavour. We already have flagellants, add some crossbowmen, halberdiers, some strong infantry sacreds, perhaps chariots to simulate war wagons and the nation's ready to defend the true faith against the unbelievers.

[Saxon]

Kristoffer,

For encouragment, know that when you visit Kenya, I will have cold beer in the fridge for you and a guest room. My wife will want to yell at you for working on the game that takes up so much of my time, so we may need to give you a secret identity. I hope you can live with being a member of ABBA?

See you then!

[BigDisAwesome]

That seems like a fair trade. I'd let you stay at my house if you sing Dancing Queen Kristoffer.

[Kristoffer O]

I'd better start practicing then. Fortunately I already got long hair http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cor]

I am moving to Hawaii in July, You can stay at my house anytime on the condition that we play some boardgames.

[HoneyBadger]

And when you come to Utah, Kristoffer, you'll have a guest room there as well. There will be cold beer, and I'll barbeque. I don't know what kind of board-games Cor has, but I've got Stratego http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[lch]

Where can I join as Dom3 developer to be able to grab all these free sleepover offers?

[Cor]

as far as Board games i have my favorites are:
Conquest of the Empire
Vinci
Primordial Soup
Risk:Godstorm!

[Nix]

Axis and Allies!

[HoneyBadger]

Monopoly is fun, providing you're playing it right

[BigDisAwesome]

HoneyBadger said:
Monopoly is fun, providing you're drinking heavily



I fixed that for you HoneyBadger.

[Morkilus]

HoneyBadger said:
And when you come to Utah, Kristoffer, you'll have a guest room there as well. There will be cold beer, and I'll barbeque. I don't know what kind of board-games Cor has, but I've got Stratego http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



A Utah Magic player? Assuming you still play, HB, I now wonder if I've lost to you in a tournament. I've played pretty heavily in the last 4-5 years.

[HoneyBadger]

You play Stratego?

[Aristander]

At the risk of dating myself I submit that Divine Right is the most fun board game I have ever played. And I have played many SPI and Avalon Hill games in the days before computers.

[Gandalf Parker]

My favorite, and one that Kristoffer might like alot, is Magic Realm. Random board, random treasures, rock-paper-scissors balance. It cried out for computerizing before there were PCs
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/22

I keep watching the efforts to recreate it and some other favorite games of mine to try and get them to let Shrapnel publish it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Warhammer]

Gandalf Parker said:
My favorite, and one that Kristoffer might like alot, is Magic Realm. Random board, random treasures, rock-paper-scissors balance. It cried out for computerizing before there were PCs
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/22

I keep watching the efforts to recreate it and some other favorite games of mine to try and get them to let Shrapnel publish it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



MagicSpeak (computer version of MR) is your friend....

[Theonlystd]

Its unlikly im sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but a nation id always wanted to see would be one that kind of shuns magic in favor of Technology.

Focus would be more on Ranged units.. Recruitable artillery units with AOE damage.. Improved Precision ect..

The melee units they have would be low morale units that could lore wise maybe be mercenaries from other nations to represent there dislike of "dirtying" their hands..

Ahhh i can hope =p

[Beorne]

Magic realm is a great game, but the very high complexity, and the long setup time (not helped by that very small paper chit) make it a very niche game. I'ts a pity. The last revision of the rules seem to ease the accessibility alot, but I don't have found yet players brave enough to learn that amount of rules.
Someone knows if Is there a rework-update of the game on the way?

[lch]

Theonlystd said:
Its unlikly im sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but a nation id always wanted to see would be one that kind of shuns magic in favor of Technology.

Focus would be more on Ranged units.. Recruitable artillery units with AOE damage.. Improved Precision ect..


You might want to try out the Hoburg nations (in the Mods forum) about that. Ulm shuns magic, too, especially mid age and the Ulm Reborn mod nation, I think.

[Sombre]

Juzza was making the nations from arcanum, one of which is tech rather than magic based. Indeed I believe he's already made the tech nation called Tarent/Tarant, so maybe you should give that a look.

Edit: Also, Ulm Reborn has a reasonable amount of magic. As much as LA Ulm anyway. And access to more via summons. In the future I'll do the warhammer dwarves who will have either no magic or very restricted magic.

[Theonlystd]

Sombre said:
Juzza was making the nations from arcanum, one of which is tech rather than magic based. Indeed I believe he's already made the tech nation called Tarent/Tarant, so maybe you should give that a look.

Edit: Also, Ulm Reborn has a reasonable amount of magic. As much as LA Ulm anyway. And access to more via summons. In the future I'll do the warhammer dwarves who will have either no magic or very restricted magic.

Ooooooo cant wait for the Dwarfs and the Skaven...

And ill look for the Tarant or whatever thanks..

[Gandalf Parker]

Beorne said:
Magic realm is a great game, but the very high complexity, and the long setup time (not helped by that very small paper chit) make it a very niche game. I'ts a pity. The last revision of the rules seem to ease the accessibility alot, but I don't have found yet players brave enough to learn that amount of rules.
Someone knows if Is there a rework-update of the game on the way?


There are projects out there for it but they dont seem to get very far. Its on my watch list with Master of Magic (MoM), Stars!, King of Dragon Pass (KoDP), and VGA Planets 4 (VGAP4). Im trying to stear them toward Shrapnel.

[Cor]

I have started an OT thread on board games, please have your say:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=529316&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=#Post529316

[Methel]

Its alive!
New updates looking scrumptious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Oh, I hadn't seen - yeah, there's some really nice things there. Thanks Kristoffer!

What're Partholonians?

I have a request Kristoffer - how about new vampire graphics? The current one's somehow not sinister enough.

[Kristoffer O]

Lol, yep, they are quite ugly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The reason it's alive again is twofold.
1. No school until august. I have plenty of time.
2. JK is in India conquering Bandar lands. I can't play other games (or do stuff) with him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The second one is not necessarily a good thing for you, since it means that there will not be a new patch until august, when he returns.

THere will be more unit work instead, redrawing, new nations, new summons and stuff.

I tried to fix a couple of bugs, but the buglist is more full of JK-bugs than bugs I can manage.

[Methel]

Well we do greatly appreciate the work the both of you do, so you working on Dom is never a bad thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[tibbs]

Enjoy your summer off. If you're ever my way, the weissbier is on me.

[Gandalf Parker]

Personally, the thing in Kristoffers territory that I wish would get done is to finish the variations that Dom3 added over Dom2. Altho I totally understand preferring to work on new things instead of old things.

Some of the variations just dont seem like they got filled in enough for all of the nations.

a) national spells dont feel like they are done yet

b) the different preferences based on nation and terrain for castle building

c) Mercs preferences for different pay rates to different nations

d) caves and darkness

e) descriptions

f) map icons

[SelfishGene]

Can you run a batch text edit on all the unit/nation descriptions and change "loose" to "lose"? That might change 10% of them incorrectly, but it would fix the other 90% http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[MaxWilson]

Theonlystd said:
Its unlikly im sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but a nation id always wanted to see would be one that kind of shuns magic in favor of Technology.

Focus would be more on Ranged units.. Recruitable artillery units with AOE damage.. Improved Precision ect..




The problematic thing is that the game isn't set up in such a way that technology can develop, so either you have too much power in the early game or too little power in the late game. If it were possible to selectively ban nations from certain spells, you could get around that by eliminating all spells from Technicia and hijacking the schools to add a bunch of national spells, e.g. Blood -> artillery, Construction -> armor enhancements. Then their high-tech units would become "mages," but effectively they're tanks with SABOT rounds until you reach HE or laser rounds, or else they turn on cloaking devices (Mirror Image-like effect) or something. It would be different from magic in that the tech tree would be smaller, probably most "spells" would be zero-fatigue, and the "mages" would cost a lot of resources.

But since you can't ban nations from the normal spells this wouldn't work out so great because you'd get the tanks doing weird things like summoning undead in combat. You could *sort* of fake it by making all tech blood magic, which has no real combat magic anyway especially if you don't have blood slaves along. Just don't blood hunt. Of course, you couldn't make the AI play by those rules so it would have to be a player-only nation, or else you'd overlook the weird occasions when tanks cast Life for a Life or Blood Vengeance.

-Max

[sum1lost]

Would it be possible to use a set-up of nation-only spells from all the different spell-research things, but those spells require paths in holy or maybe blood? I know that doesn't fit with the rest of the game, but maybe it is possible? And simply don't give the national troops paths in non-blood/holy.

[Edi]

SelfishGene said:
Can you run a batch text edit on all the unit/nation descriptions and change "loose" to "lose"? That might change 10% of them incorrectly, but it would fix the other 90% http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.


I've provided them with fixed descriptions of all units in the game, which should take care of all typos, so if they go for it, they can replace the lot for the next patch.

[Endoperez]

* MA Agartha heroes x2.
* Some shortlist fixes
* Some balancing stuff, gold costs
* MA van home only. Gold cost increase.
* Animal and wooden names




WOOHOO! Agartha love!

Also, if the last one is what I think it is (namelists for animals and spesific constructs...) - just what is this building up to!

[Kristoffer O]

Yep. I got annoyed when my new great boar of carnutes was named Dolgad or something similar. ANd it would not fit an Ivy King to be called Goldfur or Ragetusk, so I made soms Rootheart and Ironbark and similar names.

[Velusion]

Changes look great! Looking forward to seeing them in action.

[Methel]

* Hydra regeneration works

It didnt before?
Also can you give us some hints about the new hydra?

[Ballbarian]

Excellent!

[Kristoffer O]

It gets is heads back.

[Endoperez]

Kristoffer O said:
It gets is heads back.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

Hydra regeneration indeed!
Also, thanks for our first enchanted sling (Lugh got one)!

[Kristoffer O]

That sling is the property of Lugh. You will not have access to it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Unless you mod that is.

[Kristoffer O]

Since I'm quite fond of it I'd better post an example.

http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/hydra.jpg

[NTJedi]

kool update

two thumbs up... or should I say five heads up. lol

[Jerusaleman]

hello all.

I'm brand new to the forum, and I signed up because the fellow (Psientist) who introduced me to Dom 3 and I were having a discussion about "the Next Dom", and that seems to fit this thread!

What makes this game to me is the historical/mythological tributes (and their Accuracy!). Congratulations to everyone who has helped make that so!

In the spirit of that endevour, I have this to offer as a result of the pre-mentioned discussion:

Right now, you can offer gold, gems and magic items to help cement an alliance. But, you cannot truly "ALLY" with another. It is your army or his in the oppositions' province.

Perhaps Some sort of way to attach a commander with his army to another pretender's fighting force (and detach them again later!) would be an interesting evolution?

On that same line: History is rife with examples of Alliances cemented by Blood. Not the crude cutting of a hand, but the "trading" or marrying of loved ones and relatives. Indeed, that was the basis for the entire "fuedal" concept! Perhaps there would be a way to include another option, alongside "send gems/send gold" to "Send commander".

History has many examples of forms of this, including Rome's Flavius Aetius; Transylvania's Vlad the Impaler; England's Henry the Great's ill-fated wives; And the policies of Japan's Tokoguwa Shogunate (to name only a few!). Hostages could then even go to war for thier "keepers", or simply be detained.

Either way, the options this would open up diplomatically, strategically, tactically and insofar as betrayal or "insider knowledge" would be fantastic.

And that, as an addition to an already exceptional and outstanding game.

[LoloMo]

Being able to trade commanders/units would take away the uniqueness of each nation, which is a crucial part of dominions.

Perhaps if only independent troops can be traded...

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive traded commanders in my games. Deliver them to a lab.

[LoloMo]

How do you do that?

[atul]

Charm, hellbind heart or enslave mind + gift of reason. By many mages in case the first one doesn't get through. With Dom3 also seduction, I guess.

At least that is one way of getting new commanders. Maybe not the most cost-efficient, but it does work to a degree. Hm, I wonder how much would a blood mage cost in perpetuality ebay...

[Methel]

Hmm, Im not sure you should use that one KO..
The other units will be jealous! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, I have a new favourite nation: Pythium serpent cult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I started to remake the old serpent cult yesterday and I'm having a blast. Probably because no other nation is so full of history of religions as this one. Less myth, more cults. Quite heavily inspired by the late empire and various mystery cults; a special interest of mine, since I wrote an essay on the Isis/Sarapis cult in the roman empire.

[lch]

Kristoffer O said:
a special interest of mine, since I wrote an essay on the Isis/Sarapis cult in the roman empire.


Yeah, you would be the only one to correctly name that pretender with a flower pot on his head, I think. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Kristoffer O]

The flower pot is a calathus. A calathus I say! Don't you ever learn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

I like to imagine KO as a dapper gentleman that always has a suit, top hat, cane, cigar, and handlebar mustache.

"I say old chap! The calathus are growing nicely this year."

[Saulot]

Heh. Twiddling his moustache at the same time, no doubt.

@ KO
In regards to the hydra, are you adding a new unit ability? Or just using prodigious amounts of secondshape/firstshape?

[Kristoffer O]

Turned out to the prodigious numbers. But it works quite nice. Not sure if the hydra is better or worse, but it is fun to look at. It is better at surviving soul slay anyway. Just looses a head http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, still working on the serpent cult. Almost finished now. We might need a parental advisory warning on this patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[lch]

Then I suggest that the Maenads get redone, too... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Not unlikely. Pythium can get a few of them with their new Orgy spell.

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, seems the computer is sensitive to sexually explicite graphics. It crashes to desktop when I try to play Pythium. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[NTJedi]

Kristoffer O said:
Hmm, seems the computer is sensitive to sexually explicite graphics. It crashes to desktop when I try to play Pythium. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



It just turns off the game lights when it's having the adult fun.