Alpaca: 10 player game to test new server(started)

[llamabeast]

I'd like to start a new middle era game, with something in the range of 8-10 players. The object will be:

1) To have a normal fun game.
2) To test a new automated PBEM program I've been working on.

The program in question is called the LlamaServer (I named it after myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif), and I'm hoping it may help to ease the general scarcity of games. Essentially you just e-mail it your 2h file, and when it has all the 2h files it processes the turn and sends the new trn files out. You can check who's taken the turn and when the next turn's due at any time on the website (currently pretty rudimentary, www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net)).

The idea is that it'll be *nearly* as good as a hosted game - obviously not quite, because you have to open your e-mail program. I went for a PBEM option firstly because I'm stuck behind a university firewall and so couldn't run a normal server anyway, and secondly because there's much less overhead to running a PBEM game, so it should eventually be able to run lots and lots of games at once.

Anyway, I'll probably waffle more about how it works and what it does and stuff later. The first thing is to get the game going. So far we have:

llamabeast - Marignon
DrPraetorius - Pythium
Tyrant - R'lyeh
GameExtremist - Arcoscephale
JayThomas - Man
Reverend Zombie - Shinuyama
Digress - Caelum
Xietor - Pangaea
Valerius - Vanheim
Sieger - Ermor

Map: Cradle of Dominions (Edi's fixed version)
Settings: Independents 6
Graphs on
Renaming on
Mods: Worthy Heroes 1.6
DrPraetorius' blessings hotfix

To upload your pretender, just send an e-mail to pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net, with the pretender file attached. If you want you can zip it, rar it or gzip it. Or not. The subject line has to be 'Alpaca', because that's the name of the game (I thought I'd stick with the llama-like theme). Then also post here to say you've joined.

It would be quite cool if you did everything you can think of to break it. I say this because I've plugged all the gaps I can think of, and at the moment I can't think of anything you could do to confuse it. But, I want it to be super-robust. So please go crazy in your attempts to mess it up, I can soon fix it again. For example, why not rename an ordinary 2h file as if it was a pretender? Create a random text file and send that? Please let me know if any of its responses aren't reasonable for what you did. Also let me know of any typos or errors in the e-mails it sends. I want it to be nice.

Okay, here's the links to the maps and mods you need:

Edi's fixed maps (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=501807)
Worthy heroes mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=470523)
Blessing hotfix (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=511676)

The worthy heroes mod is a rar file, which has been known to cause difficulties in the past - if you can't open it (and you're using windows), download WinRar from here (http://www.rarlab.com/rar/wrar362.exe).

[Gandalf Parker]

Very impressive. I tried two old standard cracks against badly written email handling. Both of them sent me back a form-letter response about the problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
I am impressed.

Dont speak lightly of pbem servers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
A pbem server can handle at least 10 games for each 1 that a direct-connect server runs.
Instead of maxing out at 10 games, my server could run 100

[llamabeast]

Hey, thanks Gandalf. I like your crack e-mails! They look evil.

It looks like people have joined as Man and Shinuyama already, good stuff - who are you?

[llamabeast]

Oh, by the way, if you want to change your pretender in some way, you can just send the new file, and it'll overwrite the previous one. You can't change nation though.

[Digress]

I sent through a pretender for Caelum.

And it was accepted without a hitch.

[GameExtremist]

I'll take Arco : )

[Reverend Zombie]

as Shinuyama.

[llamabeast]

Anyone have any thoughts as to what map we should use?

[DrPraetorious]

For 10 players? Creadle of Dominion is handsome.

Orania might be better balanced (note also that it is only slightly larger).

Do you want me to scatter the start locations over a map to maximize consistency of placement? It's a hangup of mine, if you post (or pick) a map-file, I can do whatever you want to it.

[llamabeast]

Cradle of Dominions sounds good. Isn't 20 provinces each a little on the large side though, or am I being silly? Maybe 12 players would be a little better.

Once we've worked out how many players, scattering the start locations sounds like a good idea, thanks Dr P.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, IIRC, 10/player is small, 20/player is normal and 30/player is large. I forget where those values come from, though.

It also depends on the amount of water and the connectivity of the provinces - if each province has a lot of neighbors, path length between capitals will tend to be smaller and the map will thus "seem" small, even if it has a lot of provinces on it.

[Gandalf Parker]

llamabeast said:
Hey, thanks Gandalf. I like your crack e-mails! They look evil.



They are meant to actually. Its not as if the password file is all that useful except to spammers. But the ability to get it should be scary and it shows the ability to do other things also.


It looks like people have joined as Man and Shinuyama already, good stuff - who are you?


heehee. No Im not in the game. I dont join games as Gandalf Parker.

[JayThomas]

I joined as Man. No hitches so far. The confirmation mail arrived.

Thanks for hosting!

[Xietor]

I will join as Pangaea. Will send files as soon as i can.

Not the most computer literate guy here, where is the pretenders file? I am looking in dom III directory, see saved games etc, but nothing titled saved pretenders.

[Xietor]

Under newlords, i had 1 file that was a 2h file ma Pangaea. i sent you that. hopefully it is the right one. heh.

[Xietor]

It accepted the file, so it must be the correct one.

My suggestions-use the edi's fix cradles map. it has improved starting postions and fixed a couple bugs that did not transfer over to dom iii.

My vote is for default settings, with independents set to 6(rather than 5) and for renaming. All other things to be left alone.

[Xietor]

Also edi's fix automatically scatters the nations for the cradle's map.

[DrPraetorious]

Edi's start locations are fine, I agree with Xietor.

[Xietor]

For cradles map, i think a min of 10 people, with optimal being 12.

[DrPraetorious]

I'd say 8-10 myself, but I prefer a little elbow room.

[JayThomas]

I agree with DrP.

[Xietor]

I will play just to have fun, but my build is one best suited for a quick strike on an opponent. This particular build was one i used in aran games where your castle was sometimes 3 squares away from another players and you could be sieging their castle on turn 3.

But Pangaea can do ok in long build up games as well. If people like elbow room i am all for it also.

[Tyrant]

Pretender sent

[Valerius]

I have joined as the hated Vanheim.

[llamabeast]

Okay, how about we go for 11 players , as a compromise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So I think we're up to 9 now, still waiting for two more.

Also, Arco and Vanheim haven't actually joined - have you tried e-mailing in your pretenders yet?

[GameExtremist]

Sent my pretender in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sieger]

I'll join as Ermor, will send file soon.

[Valerius]

Hmm, I'm not sure what happened. I sent three e-mails. Attached to each was a MA Vanheim pretender with password. I did not zip the file and it was sent from a Yahoo account.

[llamabeast]

What e-mail address did you send them to? Should be pretenders[ at ]llamaserver [ dot ]net. It hasn't received any e-mails from you at all - I just went through the log, and all the e-mails that have arrived I can account for.

I had thought that perhaps there was some kind of spam filter on the e-mail account, but one of the other emails came through fine from yahoo. So, I'd double check the spelling on the address you sent it to, and if that doesn't work you could just e-mail it directly to me, llamabeast[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net.

By the way, if you e-mail the server you should hear back within 5 minutes, 10 minutes at most, so if it doesn't send you a confirmation e-mail in that time then something's definitely wrong.

[Valerius]

Ok, I just sent it to both addresses. I double checked and the e-mail addresses seem to be correct - no typos.

[llamabeast]

By the way, it just occurred to me that I did a poor job of specifying the details of the game in the first post. I'm thinking 24 hour quickhost, independents 6, renaming on, graphs on. Research and magic sites normal. Is everyone okay with all those? Or perhaps magic sites 50? Also I guess we could use Worthy Heroes, people seem to like that generally.

Dr P, do you think it's a good idea to use your blessing hotfix so Ermor can bless his sacreds?

So with Edi's fixed version of the Cradles map, how many start sites are there? Can we assume players will end up reasonably evenly scattered? I'm not up to speed on map issues at all.

Hmm, I've spent so long thinking about the server, I hadn't thought as far ahead as the game details!

[llamabeast]

I'll PM you Valerius.

[Xietor]

I do not have any mods. So I prefer we play mod free so i do not have to figure out how to load one.

On a big map like cradles, there will be a ton of magic sites on the normal setting. just my thoughts.

If we are going with the hero mod, can you post the link to download it so we can all have same version?

And I am assuming you just download it, and drag it into mod folder?

[llamabeast]

Yep, I'll definitely post links and instructions for the map and any mods. You might be right about the magic sites.

[DrPraetorious]

Yeah, the blessing hotfix is a good idea, I'd say. Give people extra lead-time on the first host cycle - just in case there are bugs, or people can't download the mod(s), etc.

Yes, to use the mod you just download it and drag it into the mod folder. I attached it here again for your convenience.

[llamabeast]

Cool, thanks.

Still waiting for one more player... you know you want to.

[Xietor]

What is the blessing hot fix? When I play ermor, i can bless their troops with no hotfix.

[DrPraetorious]

Usually you can, there is an intermittent bug that causes the mages to refuse to cast the various unholy blessing spells.

The nations that *really* need such a hotfix are LA Agartha and Ulm.

In the MA, T'ien Ch'i may be the only nation with undead sacreds and no way to bless them; everyone gets Mound Fiends, but few people care about blessing them.

The upshot of the fix is that it erases the distinction between regular and unholy bless spells, which cleans things up anyway, to my mind.

[DrPraetorious]

Oh, let's just start.

[llamabeast]

Yep, I agree - sorry for the delay everyone, I've been away all day today.

I'll just tinker with the server to make sure it won't do anything naughty (it'll be its first ever game start!), then hopefully you'll all get your first turns.

[llamabeast]

Hooray! Hopefully you'll all have received your first turns now by e-mail. Apologies for the slow start to this game.

I've added links to the map and the mods to the first post.

The deadline for the first turn is in 48 hours, just in case anyone has any problems, but it'd be great if we could get it done in 24 (or less!), especially since the first turn normally takes about a minute.

You can check who else has taken their turn, and what the deadline is on the website (www.llamaserver.net). Actually it's doing something odd at the moment, but hopefully it won't be by the time you look at it.

Let me know if you have any problems at all, or ideas for improvements. For example from this first turn, I've decided to get rid of the seconds counter from the time the next turn's due, because it looks silly. Any other similarly minor comments are much appreciated.

Good luck everyone, and thanks for playing!

[llamabeast]

I forgot to put the hall of fame to 15 places - hope no-one minds too much.

[DrPraetorious]

The worthy heroes link at the root of the thread does not seem to work.

[llamabeast]

Good point, fixed!

[DrPraetorious]

*taps foot impatiently*

Maybe it would be better to start the game as a direct connection game, and then move to PBEM after the first dozen turns or so?

This is for the future, I realize that this game you were trying to test every aspect of your hosting setup.

[llamabeast]

Surely direct connect would be no faster would it? I don't see that it makes much difference really - if you look at the website, you have all the information you'd have on a direct connect game.

Edit: Wasn't meaning to sound defensive there, I'm interested to hear your opinions.

[DrPraetorious]

Good luck everyone, and remember: Cuidado! Hay Llamas!

I've always wanted to say that.

[Xietor]

And we are off! Why did i not get my top right spot! /cry.

[Amhazair]

DrPraetorious said:
Good luck everyone, and remember: Cuidado! Hay Llamas!

I've always wanted to say that.



Ayayay! Que peligro! Cuidense todos!

(And that will probably be the exttent of my contribution to this thread, but in my opinion it was truly valuable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif)

[Xietor]

I sent off my 2nd turn an hour ago, but have received no confirmation.

weird, i resent it and got a quick confirmation.

[llamabeast]

Hello everyone, I've actually been away from the internet for almost a day, but it looks like everything's been fine in the meantime.

Um, I can't read Spanish, sadly, so your contributions are lost on me. Maybe I'd better go google...

Xietor, according to the log it received two 2h files from you. It says it replied to the first with a receipt confirmation, and to the second with a "Revised 2h file received" message. Did you never get the first message then? Odd.

The server checks its e-mail every 5 minutes. Given the time e-mail takes to go back and forth, I reckon that means on average you'd expect to get a confirmation within 5 minutes, and always within 10. If you don't get one within 10, something's probably up.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, this works well, but people aren't taking their early turns very fast.

While there is little theoretical difference in the speed at which people can take turns, PBEM vs. IP, people aren't playing very fast. For example, the last people to take their turn is very seldom taking two turns in quick succession, for whatever reason.

So, if I were going to use a system like this to save bandwidth (or for the convenient autonotification, which is nice), I'd start using direct connection, get the first dozen turns or so out of the way at least, and then switch to PBEM.

Of course, I am not a patient man.

[llamabeast]

Fair enough, good point. I guess the advantage with a direct connection is that if you're the last person to take your turn, you straight away automatically download the new turn, and it's impossible not to look at it, and then it's very hard not to take it - so people tend to immediately take the next turn.

Myself I can't offer a direct connection (stupid university firewall) but I guess it'd be possible to do a bit of teamwork to start the game on someone else's computer and then transfer it to the llamaserver. It'd be very easy to transfer - I just need the ftherlnd file.

By the way, are people using the website? Myself I find myself checking it loads, but I don't know if everyone else has found it.

Incidentally you can go straight to the Alpaca page at
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Alpaca - for some reason that doesn't appear in your address bar normally (anyone know how to fix that?), but if you follow that link once you can then bookmark it.

[Tyrant]

The obvious answer for next time is to start with a 3 hour blitz. Cultilvate serenity Dr. P.

I check the site, it's the key feature of the set up IMO.

[Xietor]

I can host the game for a blitz. let me know. cable connection, decent machine, and i have forwarded port and am actually hosting a blitz 1 on one game right now.

Maybe some time this weekend I can host(you need to transfer me the files and help me set it up) and we can do a 3-4 hour blitz with 5 min time limit per turn.

I would not actually time it, but if one person is taking 10 minutes longer than the rest, we may have to ask him to speed up a bit.

[Valerius]

I check the site. That way I can see that I'm one of the last people to take their turn. And that is precisely the issue for me. While I can see the appeal of a blitz session I don't have time for them. Once every 24 hours I can get a turn in. But, to schedule a specific time to play for a few hours? No. And, whether it were IP or PBEM that wouldn't change. Thanks for hosting, llamabeast.

[llamabeast]

Yes, I think a blitz will have to be a suggestion for a future game rather than something we can do for this one. The chances of finding a time we could all do would be pretty minimal. Myself I visit my girlfriend at the weekends / she comes here, and while she actually quite likes Dominions (to my great surprise) I think a blitz might be pushing it.

[llamabeast]

I see you staled, RZ. Hope it wasn't due to any kind of technical issue.

[Reverend Zombie]

llamabeast said:
I see you staled, RZ. Hope it wasn't due to any kind of technical issue.



I definitely submitted turn 2--did you get that one?

If we're talking about turn 3, my stale would be because I forgot to check my email before I went to bed last night. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[llamabeast]

Yep, turn 2 was received fine - hopefully you'd have got a receipt e-mail when you sent your turn in? But turn 3 I think you staled.

[llamabeast]

So, as Dr P pointed out, I don't think that so far the last player to take their turn has often taken their next turn immediately afterwards. It doesn't really matter too much, but it keeps the game moving a little faster if you do.

[llamabeast]

Dragon sighted!!

The Arcoscephalian Dragon has been sighted in our lands. We are attempting diplomacy...

[JayThomas]

I'll be on buisness travel from Apr 23 to Apr 26. I don't know if I'll have internet access during this time.

Can the game be put on hold during this time? If the delay is to long, a substitute is acceptable.

Thanks

[llamabeast]

That'll be fine. I'll just put it onto a longer timer while you're away - so that if you can take a turn it'll process, but if not it won't.

[Xietor]

Ermor seems to be dominating the hall of fame. Evil lurks!

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've set the turn timer to be longer for the moment (96 hours, in fact), so that JayThomas doesn't stale. If everyone can still take their turns as normal, then if Jay does manage to get in a turn either today or while he's away then the game'll be able to host.

[Xietor]

Man has done its turn, i do not think you need the 3 days for turn-ins now.

[llamabeast]

It's true, thanks for taking your turn JayThomas, I guess you must have found some internet access somewhere. Just waiting on you now Valerius.

[llamabeast]

Just waiting for Ermor...

[Sieger]

Did 10 & 11 just now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Well color me stupid, I forgot to actually send in turn 11. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Ah well, I can recover.

[Xietor]

/whistles innocently.

[llamabeast]

I'm intrigued.

[llamabeast]

JayThomas (Man) is having troubles with his internet connection, so I've postponed the hosting a bit to give him time to send the turn from work.

[JayThomas]

Mail is fixed this morning and we are back to normal.

Thanks for waiting a bit llamabeast.

[DrPraetorious]

Are we planning to patch? People should probably keep using the old version of the executable until you do.

[llamabeast]

Ah, good, this'll be interesting and a very useful test. The llamaserver's meant to react as soon as someone sends in a patched turn, send an e-mail to everyone explaining what's happening and stop all timers until I can patch it. So if someone can send in a patched turn, we'll find out what happens.

[llamabeast]

Oh, if and when it sends out the "stopped until patched" message, I'd greatly appreciate comments on the accuracy and clarity of the message. Version changes tend to cause mass chaos to MP games, so I'm really hoping the llamaserver will manage to be robust and non-confusing.

[llamabeast]

I just did an extra backup of all the game files just in case.

[llamabeast]

Okay, all under control. You should have all got an email (or several!) from me, but anyway the llamaserver's all patched up, and the plan is to use v3.06 for this turn and v3.08 for future turns. If you accidentally use v3.08 for this turn though, I _think_ you'll probably be fine. Sorted!

[llamabeast]

Please can you let me know if you get any quirky behaviour going on at all? One of the players in the other game on the llamaserver had it reject one of her 2h files, even though there was nothing wrong with it. If anyone else has had anything similar, please let me know.

In fact in general, please please please report any quirky things at all, even any spelling errors in the e-mails it sends out, or if you think any of the e-mails are less clear than they could be. It would be great to have all the basic running of the server completely smooth before I open it up to more games (I'm planning to allow other people to admin games on it, so there may end up being a large number of games going without me even necessarily being involved).

[GameExtremist]

Okay recieved email, tried to use turn 19, 3.06 didn't accept it. Tried turn 19 with 3.08 everything worked fine.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

I thought i sent in turn 19 earlier, trying again.

[DrPraetorious]

All the turns are in. Is it not hosting?

[llamabeast]

Ahem. I turned the hosting off while I altered some code, and I appear not to have turned it back on again. Sorry about that.

[llamabeast]

Being as the website (not the server itself, in fact) was down a day or two back, I thought I'd just make a general comment about how the llamaserver works.

It'll _always_ check its e-mail before it hosts a turn. What that means is that if you e-mail it your turn in time, you can be sure that you won't stale, even if either the website or the server are down. It's not like a direct connect game where you can't take your turn if the host's computer is down.

Having said that I think the website going down was quite unlucky and hopefully will be a rare occurrence. And the llamaserver should in principle never go down, unless I do something stupid. Which I do fairly often, unfortunately.

[DrPraetorious]

Out of curiosity, if I were looking for someone to whom I would give all my gems and items - who feels they are in a good position to fight a successful war with Marignon and Pangaea? Right now I'm inclined to give all my treasures to Man, but whoever is on Marignon's southern border (or across the southern sea) is also a prospect.

[Xietor]

If you are looking to give away items, you could give them to me. Although we have fought, I was always forthright about my position, and even when things looked grim, did not switch to what looked to be the winning side-you and man.

Also this is my 1st mp game, and i need all the help i can get.

Marignon will likely kill me next(: As any other opponent will require him to switch continents.

[GameExtremist]

Arcoscephale shares the southern continent with Caelum, we also have a small outpost on the tip of the continent to our north. There were some strange little goblin creatures that attacked our lands briefly but our elephants seemed to delight in cleaning their feet on them. We think we killed their pretender but it was such a pathetic creature we are still not sure if it was actually a pretender.

We relish the idea of a surplus of gems, our astrologers will put them to good use in divining the fortunes of Arcoscephale.

May the heavens grant your nation a kindly fate.

~Arco~

[llamabeast]

Greetings from the head of the Marignon Insurgent Mafia, a (normally) covert organisation determined to bring down Marignon from within.

For some time now, the trading operations of Marignon have been firmly under the control of our organisation. As such, we can _guarantee_ that, if you send your gems and items to Marignon, you will in fact be weakening them from within.

Without a doubt, we are the best possible recipients for your gems. The rulers of Marignon will never see the threat coming!

[Reverend Zombie]

GameExtremist said:
....There were some strange little goblin creatures that attacked our lands briefly but our elephants seemed to delight in cleaning their feet on them....
~Arco~



The goblins' irrational fear of your dragon led us to overlook the more potent threat of your elephants, much to our detriment.

Now that Caelum moves to carve up what remains of Shinuyama, our extinction is just a matter of time, so I bid a farewell to those left standing.

Good luck to all of you!

[lch]

llamabeast said:
Greetings from the head of the Marignon Insurgent Mafia, a (normally) covert organisation determined to bring down Marignon from within.

For some time now, the trading operations of Marignon have been firmly under the control of our organisation. As such, we can _guarantee_ that, if you send your gems and items to Marignon, you will in fact be weakening them from within.

Without a doubt, we are the best possible recipients for your gems. The rulers of Marignon will never see the threat coming!


ROTFL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Unfortunately, it seems that I will be spending all of my gems bleeding Marignon directly.

Eventually I will run out of gems to power by combat magic, and then I'll be toast - but until then, we will continue to fertilize the fields of our land with Marignon's dead.

We hope that whoever conquers them in their current weakened state is exceptionally cruel and savage.

[GameExtremist]

I've sent my turn in like 10 times....server not sending acceptance email and the server still says turn not recieved from Arco.

What's going on?

I'd hate to stale because of this.

[llamabeast]

Hmm, that's really odd. Your e-mails haven't come through at all.

Well, I've got your 2h file from your direct e-mail so I've forwarded it on myself, and it's worked fine, so you won't stale.

Can you send to the server again, and copy me in (my llamabeast address), so I can see if there's anything up with your e-mail?

[GameExtremist]

Okay...I've sent an email to turns@llamaserver and llamabeast@llamaserver.

[llamabeast]

Er, looks like it's worked fine. I'm at a bit of a loss to explain what was going on then, because the previous e-mails didn't even arrive, it's not like the server was ignoring them. Very odd.

[GameExtremist]

Yep just recieved the confirmation back from Llamaserver so all is good! Thanks for your time!

[llamabeast]

No probs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I gave a bunch of gems to R'lyeh - if he'll agree to consume Marignon while he's weakened (reducing the number of astral powers that might oppose you, and giving you a highly defensible land position!), I'll send him the rest.

Otherwise, I'll send them to Man, even though I figure Man is probably in about the same situation as I was just in - about to be eaten alive from two directions.

[Tyrant]

Though we appreciate your excellent and unexpected largess, we cannot detroy the orange fanatics for you at this time, for we are engaged in ripping the wings off of the winged rats of Caelum. Rest assured that all enemies will be destoyed in the fullness of time.

[Xietor]

My kingdom for a staff of storms!

[Digress]

You gave your store of gems to R'yleh ? That is just great ..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[llamabeast]

Just waiting on R'lyeh now. If you've already sent your turn in Tyrant, can you send it again?

Many apologies for the mayhem this weekend. The website's gone haywire too. Unbelievable timing, just when I go away for the weekend... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[llamabeast]

It looks like the e-mail's probably working normally again. If anyone has a problem again, please let me know, and I may have to consider changing the company who administer llamaserver.net - it's pretty crucial that it's reliable I think.

They still haven't fixed the website. Grumble grumble...

[Tyrant]

The website has been on/off all weekend. Can't hit it right now, but i could a couple hours ago. <shrug>

Except for this weekends problems the whole set up has been great.

[Sieger]

I've sent two e-mails to turns@llamaserver.net, waited over an hour in between each, neither is recognized by the server. The website has been up and down, but last time it was up it hadn't recognized my submitted turns, either.

[Digress]

Caelum is soon to be no more. I have been too clever by half. I thought Dark Skies would be the perfect sheild against rampaging Arcoscephalian elephants - don't need to buy many troops, just rely on my high dominion coupled with Dark Skies to see those animals off.

The clever bit was luring Arco's armies deep into my territory so that when I counter-attacked I could destroy them en-masse. But the elephants just won't rout.

[Sieger]

Looks like the server finally accepted my turn, third time's a charm!

[Xietor]

It just accepted my turn. It loves me!

[GameExtremist]

Digress said:
Caelum is soon to be no more. I have been too clever by half. I thought Dark Skies would be the perfect sheild against rampaging Arcoscephalian elephants - don't need to buy many troops, just rely on my high dominion coupled with Dark Skies to see those animals off.

The clever bit was luring Arco's armies deep into my territory so that when I couter-attacked I could destroy them en-masse. But the elephants just won't rout.



Yeah I'm a little surprised they haven't routed. With a -1 morale you'd think they'd be a little more flighty. But I don't actually think they are making many morale checks due to them not actually taking many casualties.

I'll PM you a tactic that would have worked for sure though ; )

[Digress]

I thought the fear effect of the false horrors would do the trick. Obviously misread morale check mechanics - I thought being exposed to something causing fear was enough to force a morale check.

Maybe the fear aura has to cover more of the squad ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

When it didn't work the first time maybe I shouldn't have given it a second go ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Well you squashed the army I had planned to deal out casualties with early on - Blessed Mistform Pegasi and Temple Guards I thought would make a mess of you but it wasn't to be .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[Digress]

In a couple of those battles your estimate of -1 morale seems almost a little bit optimistic.

I am pretty sure the majority of your elephants of were -2 or worse and the footsoldiers behind them not a great deal better.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've now completely changed the setup for the llamaserver to entirely bypass the stupid company (123-reg.co.uk, in case anyone's interested). Apparently this will take 1-3 days to come fully into effect, but once that's done we'll hopefully be back to full reliability. Of course we might well be back to full reliability already, if they've fixed their problems - there's no way of knowing.

[DrPraetorious]

With my last, choking breath, I curse you, Marignon.

Our only consolation is that you have but two - TWO provinces to show for all the blood and treasure you lost defeating me. Pangaea, though first to feel my sting, got off comparatively lightly, which they wouldn't have done if I'd been free to mindhunt instead of needing to march all my magi around to serve as communion whores. The humiliation! Conquered by naked beastmen.

From the depths of hell I spit upon thee, Marignon. It seems that you have supborned R'lyeh with your silver-tongued lies - we can only hope that he betrays you with exemplary savagery.

Peace out,
Knife Bright Insight

[Xietor]

You were a worthy foe, good Dr., and I hope we can be friends in a future game.

You did win our 1st early clash, when i got a rude awakening with your 130 amazon archers, flaming arrows, and arrow fend, but you never defeated an army that contained my double 9 blessed white centaurs, and your soul slay spam hurt them not-and that was in your magic 3 dominion, not in my drain dominion.

After that 1st encounter, I was prepared for your magic-potent though it was. And you may have noticed, my troops were never clumped up in tailor-made formations for your aoe spells.



Lastly, I actually have quite a few astral mages, low level to be sure, but i am not sure that your mind hunts would have yielded the result to which you aspired.

[llamabeast]

And you may have noticed, my troops were never clumped up in tailor-made formations for your aoe spells.



lol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ah well, at least I learnt something from my thrashings (to those who didn't see/hear, I had huge numbers of mages massacred by Pythium due to, er, unwise battlefield placement).

I feel the pain of your curse, Dr P. I hope I will be able to recover from your embarrassing massacres of my greatly numerically superior armies.

Apologies for the turn delay. Arco hadn't got his turn in, and being as there've been a lot of troubles at my end in the last few I thought I should delay the turn rather than let Arco stale. I think (hope!) we will be back to normal after this turn though.

[llamabeast]

I'm mortified to discover that llamaserver.net now has popups! Euck! I'm really let down, the company I just started using (zoneedit.com) doesn't mention that anywhere. I tell you, trying to get this sorted has been like wading through internet evil, so many companies appearing to be nice then trying to screw you over. Anyway, I'll get it sorted ASAP, and sorry for the popups.

Hopefully my technical ramblings will cease shortly!

[Digress]

Well Caelum is all about grand, all too late, gestures now. I hope my terribly portentous Sea of Ice has messed with somebody's plans. I will take anybody's plans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Even people who had no part in my downfall - and yes that means everybody except Arcoscephale and R'yleh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif.

My most learned nation is to be, fittingly methinks, remembered in the following manner "remember the time I ever so slightly had to change my plans for a bare handful of turns when Caelum cast that terribly portentous Sea of Ice" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

With that Caelum will be remembered. Or at least something like that .....

[llamabeast]

Hello all!

Right, for many of you the battle reports for this turn will look wrong. Sorry.

The reason for this is that I was persuaded by players in another game that it would be a good idea to upgrade Worthy Heroes to a new version. Because you can't change which mods a game is using, what I had to do is overwrite heroes1_6.dm with a copy of heroes1_7.dm, and then change the version numbers so that 1.7 looked like 1.6 (so that the game would be tricked into using it).

With hindsight this wasn't the best plan, because I forgot that other games (such as this one) were using the mod as well. I was going to suggest that you all download my fixed version of the mod, but I've just realised that will screw up all your other games.

So I think I will have to change back to worthy heroes 1.6.

If you want to view the current turn correctly please first backup your heroes1_6.dm file, then download and use the attachment to this post. The battles will then look correct. When you're done, switch back to your backed up copy of heroes1_6.dm.

If you didn't get any screwy battle reports this turn (or you don't feel the need to see the correct battles) you don't need to do anything.

I think the lesson I've learnt from this is that you can't really upgrade a widely used mod mid-game. Sorry for the mess-up.

[llamabeast]

I've decided to re-run the last turn, because of my screwup. There was at least one big battle (I don't know if there were more), and the results might well have worked out quite differently - it just doesn't seem fair to have a kind of 'alternate reality' turn when many important things are happening.

Also some people have lost items on their heros when the slots rearranged.

I'm very sorry, but everyone will have to redo their turns. I hope that isn't too annoying. I know they probably take a while at this point, but I don't want to compromise the feeling of it being a fair game.

I will resend the turn in a moment.

This means you can disregard all the above rambling - you don't have to do anything with mods, and the battle replays should now be accurate.

[llamabeast]

If you are one of the unlucky people who had already taken their turn, you must delete your 2h file before retaking it. Otherwise you will be in crazy land.

[JayThomas]

Uggg, awful time to have to stale... Sorry about the stale guys. Unexpected work load hit me hard. Fridays and saturdays are usually kick back time but this time it was kick as (mine!!).

[Sieger]

JayThomas said:
Uggg, awful time to have to stale... Sorry about the stale guys. Unexpected work load hit me hard. Fridays and saturdays are usually kick back time but this time it was kick as (mine!!).



I suspected you had stale turned when your Army didn't move back north out of the Blackwater Ruins last turn.

Hopefully it hasn't hurt your war effort too much!

[llamabeast]

I notice at least Man staled again this turn. Would people like the turn time extended? It wouldn't be unreasonable to extend it to 48 hours now, we've lasted a long time on 24.

[Xietor]

If Man needs 48 hours, i would not be against it. But he needs to requests the move to 48. I am still doing my turns in 5-10 minutes.

[Sieger]

I don't have any problem with postponing a turn for a day or more if someone specifically needs extra time, however I'm not really sure it hurts to keep the general turn time at 24h since the game is starting to move somewhat towards a conclusion and we'll probably have 2-3 less players relatively quickly.

[JayThomas]

I didn't ask for more time. Just never got a chance to do so.

But ironically, I'll be needing less time now than before to complete a turn.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[GameExtremist]

Just a heads up that I may not be able to get my turns in on time in the next few days...

We just had like the 50 year storm in Newcastle, Australia.....power was knocked out for 18 hours...It's only just come back...but no guarentees as another big front is about to hit.

Would it be possible to set the turn timer to 48 hrs temporarily? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Xietor]

I have no objection to the 48 hour. llama may be gone for the weekend though(: if you can get your turn done today, that may be useful. I am not sure he will get your message in time(:

[llamabeast]

I've stealthily switched to 48 hours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

I just postponed the turn by 24 hours because it occurred to me I might have caused confusion by saying I'd switched to 48 hours (which doesn't currently postpone the next hosting time, although I think I wlil change that because it is confusing). Only Vanheim and R'lyeh to go though.

[Turin]

For your info, I had a nasty bug with one of the heroes( the sentient hydra) in Version 1_7 of my worthy heroes mod that gave him the wrong and pretty overpowered domsummon. It affects EA Sauromatia, MA C´tis and Pythium.
The fixed version is uploaded here:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=470523&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

edit: Just read that you are still using 1_6 so this doesn´t affect this game.

[llamabeast]

GameExtremist says things are good again post-storm, so I'll switch us back to 24 hours (unless people want to stay on 48). The current turn's hosting time won't be affected though.

[llamabeast]

All the Righteous of the world mourn, for Shemael, Killer of More Than Anyone Else and mighty Angel of Marignon, has been cut down at the last by the dying armies of Man.

Fear not though, for already the angel Ariel has reached the world and struck down the army that killed Shemael. And yet more angels approach from the celestial realms...

[llamabeast]

I'm afraid I won't have a chance to take my turn tonight (I'm in a play, and tonight's the last night + after-show party). So, I've requested (and graciously granted myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) a 12-hour extension.

[GameExtremist]

Well I gotta say this is turning into one of the more interesting games I've played. The diplomacy in itself is smokin'!

And Caelum! Were'nt you supposed to be dead and gone like 10 turns ago! Man talk about thorns in ones side.

But the main reason for the post (besides being a little drunk - Friday night in Oz) is to clear the air with Xietor, Xietor man I hope your not taking my IC (In character) actions IG in an OOC (Out of Character) way. I tend to try and play a nation according to what I think they nations overall alignment might be, in Arco's case NG (although I could be way off here) a society that is concerned with carrying out the letter of the law and nothing more or nothing less.

At any rate I OOC'ly apologize for any OOC grief or frustration this may have caused, IC'ly though Arcoscephale will never apologize or bow down to the Savage halfmen from the North!

Cheers and game on! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Digress]

While Glom rolls on and our dominion remains flickering Caelum will fight on.

We imagine you are as happy as we are that R'yleh is stewing under the ice given your high (astral) spendin' ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Imagine how much more trouble we could cause if we had the gold to purchase a point or two of province defence every now and then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Xietor]

A play! Cool! Who are you in the play?

And no Arcos., diplomacy in its various forms does not bother me outside the game. Though races in this game have, for the most part, strange ways of trying to gain favor with the Lord of the Forest.

[Tyrant]

We imagine you are as happy as we are that R'yleh is stewing under the ice



We ain't stewing, we be chillin'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It has been an interesting game. A notable paucity of early game kills and a long period of peace over most of the world has brought us to a face off of mature empires. It's like we fast forwarded through the mid game.

I suppose I would have been better off (and warmer) if I had responded to Caelum's seizure of my lands more promptly, but i was set on conquering the entire sea before i fought on land. I also think i may have set some kind of record for most gems wasted on site search spells that found nothing- the sea is a magic wasteland.

[llamabeast]

I've been at war the entire game! I just seem to have been a little slow to actually win the things.

Nasty Pythium managed to give me "one last stab in the eye" as he went down (as he said in a PM) horribly effectively, and it's been quite a major setback to my momentum. Considering I've been fighting wars that I've been winning (with a little help from my friends) for the whole game I seem to be disappointingly small.

[Xietor]

Our complaint is we have 3 other capitals within spitting distance of our own, while Ermor and other races wandered blindly for 30 turns trying to find a sign of another civilization.

Diplomacy was necessary to avoid an early exit. Had Rlyeh alone been on the other side of the map, that would have made things considerably more comfortable.

While the Lord of the Forest favors peace above all things, he has been the subject of countless threats, attacks, and deceits. It is a miracle our peaceful people still draw breath.

[Tyrant]

Yea you have, but IIRC there were but 2 wars before, what, like turn 35? When's the last time you saw that?

All glory to you for your victory btw. Pythium's a strong nation and TDNP's on my short list of truly excellent D3 players. Your victory cements your own place on that list. I know beat him last game as well, but in my book six vs one doesn't count and two vs one does.

[llamabeast]

Er, I'm afraid I can't really claim that much credit for defeating Pythium.

Basically the course of the war from my point of view was
- I turn up with a huge army and scare Pythium into getting all his men in one place to fight me
- Pythium wipes me out, while Pangaea overwhelms the rest of his provinces
- I turn up with another big army
- Pythium wipes me out again with his puny remnants (aaargh!)
- Pangaea cleans up, and wipes out the last of Pythium's army with minimal casualties

I'm not sure whether it looked the same to Xietor, but it wasn't really my finest hour! Xietor on the other hand was very efficient in fact.

TDNP is excellent though. I made some bad mistakes (well, mainly I huddled my mages, which let them get killed off by Magic Duel - why is it AOE1?!), but he still did extremely well to fight off my armies twice.

[Tyrant]

Very well then, i shall remove you from my list!

(Kind of a poorly turned phrase there at the end of your last sentence, ahem)

[Tyrant]

Xietor said:
Had Rlyeh alone been on the other side of the map, that would have made things considerably more comfortable.





Hey!~ What did we ever do to you? We have never harmed a hair on the butt of any of your cute lil forrest critters. In fact,having lost both battles we'vwe been in, we've never hurt much of anybody except indies.

[llamabeast]

Reworded http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Xietor]

Rlyeh has been a good neighbor, but your presence next to my capital took away 2 land provinces that I dearly wanted, as well as prevented my early entry into the water, which i had the ability to do.

And your threats of attacks, interwoven with your claims of eternal friendship bewilder me. heh. Do you realize that you have twice claimed that your interests lay elsewhere, while in the very next sentence claim that you may "have no choice" but to attack me?

(This is sort of a private joke between myself and the Lord of Water).

[llamabeast]

Good: Last turn I managed to conquer Man's capital with a solitary scout. Muwahaha!

Bad: I'd very much like to know the fire resistances from Phoenix Power and Army of Gold don't stack - I just lost 10 mages for no reason because of that! Aaargh!

[Tyrant]

Army of Gold you say? I am so behind the curve this game. I am surprised about that, i thought pretty much all resistences excpet magic stacked.

[Xietor]

The Lord of Forest, it seems, is clearly outclassed when it comes to back room diplomacy. But the Lord of Forest is true to his word, and does not abandon his friends.

Arcos., Prepare for battle!

[Tyrant]

Err...dang, i'm bewildered again. Who's in the back room, what are they doing back there, and with whom are you entering battle?

[GameExtremist]

Tyrant said:
Err...dang, i'm bewildered again. Who's in the back room, what are they doing back there, and with whom are you entering battle?



Arco it seems, which is not suprising considering they have annexed two of our provinces under threat of war....however we are yet to see the 2000 gold that was promised. I wonder if the aid you gave our enemies was given in "good faith" - a term you have bandied about much with your forked little tougne.

Beware those who befriend Pangaea, we think they spend too much time bathing in the waters of Ry'lehs dominion (No offense my noble ally).

Fine by us, we'll fight with our backs to our wall. We shall at least have cold comfort in the oblivion of afterlife that the noble Vanheim shall crush the cuckoo pretender and his savages from the north.

Let the mindhunt begin!

[Xietor]

Dear Arcos:

The Lord of the Forest, as well as the neutral observer Dr. P., as well as Marignon, all agreed that you breached the agreement by your wanton destruction of the provinces to be purchased.

We do not assume that you will be an easy foe, but the constant diplomacy makes our head spin. Enough talk. We fight.
No quarter asked or given. Pangaea will either triumph or be destroyed, but they will fight.

As for aiding your foe, we did purchase a considerable number of artifacts from them-a mutually beneficial arrangement.

[Xietor]

"But sire, too few have answered the call. We cannot hope to defeat Arcos., their wizard's magic is too advanced, and they
have Dragons, Angels, and Elemental Queens. They own 3 capitals, and have destroyed two other civilizations. The earth itself trembles with the passing of their elephants."

Lord of the Forest, "No we cannot. But we shall meet them on the field of battle nonetheless."

[JayThomas]

The debacle of Man is complete. Marignon has slain us!

I set Man to AI.

Thanks for hosting, llamabeast.

[llamabeast]

Hi guys,

I've just granted myself a few hours extension on the next turn - I've just got back from the summer ball at my college (it's nearly 6am here), and goodness knows what time I'll get up.

Also, I've been meaning to apologise all week for consistently taking my turn last, and at the last minute. I've been on holiday visiting my old university (it's been May Week there, the week after exams when everyone is on holiday, and I wanted to catch up with my old friends before many of them left), and one turn in the morning has been all I've (just about) been able to manage. Back to normal now though.

[Xietor]

Interesting Llama.

I just read a news story with the title,
"Brits too drunk to have sex over the holiday."

An excerpt from the story:

"The majority of Brits will be too drunk to have sex over the holiday period. A poll, involving 6,000 people, found that 59 percent of them hit what was termed a sex drought during this period. Giving reasons behind the revelations, the poll found that Brits admitted that they were less likely to have sex at this time of year because they would have consumed too much food or drink."

So while we do not mind the delay in doing your turn, do not imbibe too much alcohol! I have also noticed that Britain seems to have a lot more "holidays" than we Yanks in the States.

[llamabeast]

Ah, fear not, I'm not a very heavy drinker at all myself. Although I must admit to feeling less than my chirpiest today.

Britain does have a sad reputation in Europe for drinking too much though (followed by wandering the streets shouting). I think this largely comes from disorderly football fans, I'm not sure. Not my fault anyway!


I have also noticed that Britain seems to have a lot more "holidays" than we Yanks in the States.



I'm not sure, I didn't know that. I personally probably have a lot more holiday because I'm still at uni. As a PhD student I get nowhere near as much holiday as when I was an undergrad, but it's still quite a bit more free than a full-time job.

Oh, and to answer your question from ages ago that I forgot about - I was playing a stereotypical Russian in a mildly silly Agatha Christie style murder mystery/comedy. I'm in a really nice relaxed society here that does plays with a minimum of rehearsal, and of somewhat dubious quality, but no talent is required - which suits me very well!

[Xietor]

Let us get our terminology correct.

"Football" is played in the United States! "Soccer" is played in the rest of the world.

Football is an American sport where large men wearing armor(called pads and a helmet) smash into each other with bone breaking force.

Soccer is a sport where men wearing skimpy shorts gather on a large grass field and kick a round ball all about.

Let us not confuse the two!

[Digress]

While "footy" in Australia involves largish men, without much in the way of padding (it would be misleading to call it armour), smash into each other with bone breaking force.

[GameExtremist]

And so the once mighty empire of Arco is almost come to an end, her last great army and astrologers destroyed in one last Pyrrhic victory against the army of Pangaea.

Her remaining stores of gems and items sent to an unknown benefactor.

Her Red Dragon pretender crippled by more afflictions then can be counted.

Surrounded By Angels, Elemental Kings and Queens the nation of Arco resigns itself to non-existence.

OOC - Well I've got nothing left really, I enjoyed that last battle, I didn't watch the end as my CPU was chuggin along, yeah massed elephants are nice but expensive to maintain. Battle also cost me most of my lower path mages and seers that I had in the south....Communion slaves get fryed sometimes : ) .

Interesting game definitely one of my favourites....it all kinda fell apart on me though when Vanheim attacked...then Pangaea attacked...then Marignon attacked. Well done to Caelum for staying alive! That Frost Father is one tricky pretender..damn hard to kill too!

Prediction, Ermor will win after dispelling everyones globals and casting Utterdark, Burden of Time and Well of Misery ; )

Actually I'd say any of the the big three are in for a chance Marignon, Vanheim or Pangaea.

Interestingly enough I was going to expand north at the start of the game, only Shinyumas aggression called me south to crush them...then Caelum seemed a logical choice to follow...bad move maybe.

Anyway it was a good game and everyone I've faced has proven themselves to be skilled D3's players. I'll keep an eye on this thread as I'd like to see how the game ends.

Cheers

[Xietor]

Well Met Elephant Master:

The last battle between us was an epic one. Will of fates and army of lead help you greatly. 31 commanders! I think I received your last "stab in the eye." And they were all loaded with gems.

My 9 commanders and my white centaurs gave good account of themselves. Though they lost at last, they did kill or maim almost all of your army. I did end up with one of the elephants! Though that hardly offsets 100 dead white centaurs.

Hopefully you will not extract your revenge in the Epic Heroes Game where I am stuck with a pitiful race and sub par hero(:

This has been a fun game for sure. As if on cue Well of Misery was cast this very turn! Beware of Ermor hiding in the ne corner.

[Tyrant]

Wait...Ermor's in this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Sorry I was such a crappy ally GM, it's a R'yleh thing.

[Xietor]

Arcos stated;

"Interestingly enough I was going to expand north at the start of the game, only Shinyumas aggression called me south to crush them...then Caelum seemed a logical choice to follow...bad move maybe."

Out of curiosity did you intend to have an early tilt with Pangaea or Marignon? I think Pangaea early on is better suited to deal with elephants than Marignon, but it is always good to find out how other good players think.

[lch]

Digress said:
While "footy" in Australia involves largish men, without much in the way of padding (it would be misleading to call it armour), smash into each other with bone breaking force.


Sounds like what they call "Rugby" elsewhere in Europe, too, where the men don't need those pads and sissy protection suits. Heck, even Hockey is tougher than American Football.
[/rant]

[Xietor]

In response to a PM:

A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with devastating cost to the victor. The phrase is an allusion to King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties when he defeated the Romans during the Pyrrhic War at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:
“ The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war. [1] ”

In both of Pyrrhus's victories, the Romans lost more men than Pyrrhus did. However, the Romans had a much larger supply of men from which to draw soldiers, so their losses did less damage to their war effort than Pyrrhus's losses did to his.

[llamabeast]

Hi guys,

I'm afraid there's no way I can get my turn done tonight. Organising new games has (as always) taken much longer than I thought, and I should already be in bed really.

I've extended the timer by 11 hours.

[llamabeast]

How would people feel about moving to 48 hours with this game? For me it's beginning to feel like quite a task to do a good job of taking it every day. If everyone else is keen to stick to 24 hours though I am happy to do that. I must say it's amazing how long we have stayed on 24 hours, this has been a really pacy game (in terms of number of turns at least - seems to me it must have been quite a quiet game for R'lyeh and Vanheim, and to some extent Ermor).

[Xietor]

I do not mind it moving to 48 hours. I will be gone for several days in July, and that will give Dr. P fewer turns to
backstab my allies!

[Tyrant]

48 is good for me, I've wanted it for awhile now actually, but did not want to ask since all you folks with more to do were ripping along at 24. (It's not that the turns take long, but the timing of GMT vs PST ends up making it so that there's a very small windoe of time for me to do turns.)

[Valerius]

48 hours is fine with me as well.

[Digress]

48 hours suits me fine - though its not like one of Caelum's turns takes much time at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[llamabeast]

Okay, I will set it to 48 hours, which'll also postpone the current hosting by 24 hours.

[Valerius]

I was attacked by that impudent adventurer Bogus and his friends. Rather than just kill them I figured I would try to charm them and get a few free thugs/items.

The only one I got was the Dark Knight who has that "attack commanders" order. Scripting this command to other units seems like an exploit and I'm assuming no one else will use this trick.

My question is, can I use this command only on the Dark Knight since the command is native to that unit? No big deal either way, I was just wondering.

[Xietor]

I am going to be out of town from 7/11-7/18.

Dr. P has agreed to do my turns during my absence. I will brief him as well as I can on the current diplomatic situation before i depart.

Take it easy on me during my absence!

[llamabeast]

Have postponed hosting by 2 hours as I forgot to take my turn tonight, and now I'm a little tipsy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif So I will take it in the morning.

[Xietor]

Valerius,

I think I read that to copy the orders and assign them to other commanders IS an exploit, as the game was designed specifically not allow player to make their units target mages.

Wish respect to a unit you charm, I am not sure. I would think you would be permitted to use the unit. But if you want a definitive answer I would ask on the main board.

[Valerius]

I think I'll play it safe: if I use him in combat I'll switch his orders to attack rearmost enemies. I'm content just with the free equipment I got from charming him, though I would have liked one of the trolls as well. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll attack again so I can add to my collection.

[llamabeast]

Aaargh! I am a moron.

I have been reading about people going away on holiday, and sorting out replacements and things, thinking somehow that it's convenient I don't have the same problem. Also I have been planning my trip to a conference next week. D'oh!

So, I will be away 11/7 - 19/7 (English style dates!). Being as both Xietor and I will be away for basically the same period, is it okay with everyone if we pause the game for this period? Sorry.

Sorry to Dr P too. I will PM him.

[Tyrant]

With you 2 gone and so few players it would make sence to pause.

[sum1lost]

Just a note- The troll archer automatically fires at mages.

[Valerius]

I agree, we should pause the game.

[Xietor]

I do not leave until the 11th. Do your turns!

[Xietor]

The last remnants of the once mighty empire of Arcos. has fallen.

A worthy foe. /salute.

I was able to do 1 last turn hours before my flight departs!

[llamabeast]

Okay, me and Xietor have taken our turns. I'll add 24 hours to the current turn, in case there was confusion (so Friday morning GMT), and the following one will go a week later, when we're back.

[Tyrant]

Have good trips guys!

[Xietor]

Hi all,

Back from my annual vacation! And I did my turn.

Sorry for my part in delaying the game for 9 days. I did have Dr. P lined up to do my turns, but Llama was also out of town at the same time, and it made sense to just pause the game for a week since there are so few of us left.

It turned out that I did have internet access-if i drove 2 hours. Not something I recommend as a great relationship builder when you are on vacation. So it would have been possible, as it turns out, for me to have done the turns, but not wise.

[llamabeast]

I just postponed the turn timer by 24 hours again, because it doesn't really seem right to let people stale after a long break. Just waiting for Caelum and Ermor.

Hello again everyone by the way! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Xietor won't be able to make his turn on time, so I just postponed the timer by 12 hours.

[Digress]

Caelum has been extinguished. Thanks for the game ... it was interesting.

I think it is time to award myself a couple of awards, the first of which is the

"Most Pointlessly Long Lasting Global Spell" - which is awarded to Glom's Sea of Ice.

Closely Followed by

"Most Spectacular Failure of Stategy" - awarded to my combination of Dark Skies and False Horrors versus massed elephants. This combination yielded alot of squished mages.

I could contribute more but I invite others to award a couple but no handing me "Most Ineffectual Ally" or "Most Pathetic Vanheimian [spelling ?] Lackey" awards - that would just be nasty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Xietor]

Digress,
You had some good awards-do not kid yourself

1. Best SC award-your pretender was brutal. He was laid low at long last by some spells that i prefer remain quiet until the game is finished.

2. You also get the Platinum Survivor Award. You had more lives than a cat, fighting back from a near certain death.

All in all you have my respect and would certainly be someone I would like to ally with in future games. Good luck to you.

[llamabeast]

I was about to post to say: Hurrah! The might Father of Winters has been slain at last!

You definitely win the best SC award for the most deadly SC I've ever seen (although I dread to think what Vanheim has in store). I was frankly terrified of your pretender, and the hit squad that killed him was carefully prepared, and even then took nasty casualties (although not from your pretender himself - I should have taken more care to make sure my hit squad was less vulnerable to being massed by ordinary troops). Directly or indirectly he killed no less than 5 of my SC angels in the last few turns - nasty. Actually I couldn't believe it when last turn you cloud trapezed away when my team was trying to land on you and kill you - then I was really happy when you moved back onto them (which I was hoping you'd do).

Also you win the best sport prize for carrying on playing and never missing a turn even when you had been reduced to a handful of provinces - that was really good sportsmanship, thanks.

Good game, hope to run into you again soon.

[Valerius]

I agree on all counts.

After going undefeated in the Arco war my AQ was slain in a few rounds of combat after accidentally running into your pretender.

And, great sense of sportsmanship sticking in the game when you only had a few provinces left and making a comeback.

Lastly, you are definitely not a lackey. After the war with Arco you chose to go your own way.

[Xietor]

Llamabeast deserves tremendous credit for slaying the monster! I advised him to run, but he persisted!

My best decision this entire game was early on when I decided to cast the fate of the Forest Lord with the Angels! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Tyrant]

Good game Digress, you may add "Slayer of Squid" to your badges since you kicked my butt, and from my perspective the Sea of Ice was not pointless.

And on that subject, now that it's gone and i actually ahve to fight, can we switch to 72 hour host?

[llamabeast]

Er yep, 72 hours it is (hope that's okay with everyone). That will postpone the current hosting by 24 hours.

[Xietor]

Bah, I think he has had plenty of time to plot his moves as it is-sitting under that ice!

Just kidding. np with me either.

[llamabeast]

Hi guys,

Sorry to mess you around but I've had to postpone hosting for 24 hours. I went away for the day today and got back much later than I expected - I don't think I can start on my turn now so I'll have to put it off till tomorrow. Sorry about that.

Should have done it yesterday when I had heaps of time. D'oh!

[Digress]

llamabeast said:
I was about to post to say: Hurrah! The might Father of Winters has been slain at last!

You definitely win the best SC award for the most deadly SC I've ever seen (although I dread to think what Vanheim has in store). I was frankly terrified of your pretender, and the hit squad that killed him was carefully prepared, and even then took nasty casualties (although not from your pretender himself - I should have taken more care to make sure my hit squad was less vulnerable to being massed by ordinary troops). Directly or indirectly he killed no less than 5 of my SC angels in the last few turns - nasty. Actually I couldn't believe it when last turn you cloud trapezed away when my team was trying to land on you and kill you - then I was really happy when you moved back onto them (which I was hoping you'd do).




The addition of the Barrier made him quite a handful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Your hit squad worked a charm - luck wasn't on his side - the first spell aimed directly at the poor fella took him down. I just knew I should have packed a couple of mammoths http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Enjoyed the game ... and trust you lot continue to have fun.

Go R'yleh .... Yay !!! (everyone loves an underdog)

[Xietor]

As the turns in this game are already in the 90's, if you do not need the full 72 hours, please send in your turns. There is no real need to take long turns when the only action is mopping up caelum on AI.

[Digress]

Surely dividing up the few remaining scraps of Caelum's domain is keeping the diplomats of Pangaea, Marignon and Ermor incredibly busy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Such rich pickings to be had http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[llamabeast]

Xietor and I have been thinking that the 72 hour timer makes the game move too slowly - I find that the interval is such that it kind of loses my attention (and I end up doing a shoddy job - I've now attacked Caelum three turns in a row with some SCs on retreat orders! Aaagh!). How would people feel about moving it back to 48 hours to get some pace up for the dramatic endgame?

[llamabeast]

So what do people think about 48 hours?

In other, sort of contradictory news, I am off on Saturday to Edinburgh for a week to do improvised comedy at the Fringe Festival - which is kind of exciting since I've never done stuff anywhere but the student theatre before. Anyway, is it okay with everyone if we pause the game for a week?

[Valerius]

I have mixed feelings about moving back to 48 hours. I do agree that the game was more involving when the turns were every 48 hours. On the other hand the past couple of weeks have been very busy at work. This has been such a good game that I don't want to do a half-hearted job in my last stand. Having said that I'm Ok with 48 hours and if we do stay with 72 I'll make an effort to have my turns in within 48 hours.

As for the other question, we should definitely pause the game while you are away.

[Xietor]

The rlyeh have given me my 3 turn termination notice of our nap. Poor Pangaea, at war from the start to finish. Peace has been elusive for the Forest People.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I have taken my turn. I've set the next turn to occur 8 days after the coming hosting, at which point I should be back and raring to go.

Oddly enough I just managed to spend a good deal longer on my turn than I have for a while, and I enjoyed it loads. My conclusion is definitely that Dominions is by far more enjoyable when you put time into thinking about your turn. And also you're all DOOMED! Apart from my allies, of course.

Having said that about taking time on turns I would be keen to try for 48 hours again when I get back (since Dominions is also at its best when it's pacy). What I suggest we do is leave it on 73 hour hosting, but say that we will try to take our turns within 48 hours. Then if one of us is too busy it doesn't matter hugely, but there is some chance the turn will go after only 48 hours (since noone but Xietor normally submits their turns early).

[Xietor]

Have a good trip!

Post some pictures of the play! You do not even have to be in any of them!

[Xietor]

He has a very solid position. if you want in the big game with a good position, now is your chance! It is on 48 hour host.

[Xietor]

Was the game put back another day?

People that are not on vacation:do your turn!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Are you looking for a substitute for Atlantis?

Is it late age Atlantis? The first post points towards Middle Age.

The llama-alpaca page makes no mention of any atlantis? Maybe it was posted to the wrong thread?

[Xietor]

It is for the Big Game not this game. And a sub is needed for the LA Atlantis-at least that was the case when i posted. Not sure of the status now. Dr. P would be the one to contact if interested in LA Atlantis in the Big Game(perpetuality).

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Nah... perpetuality is a bit too big for me.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Xietor]

Five hours remain to do your turns. After having 8 days to do it, I cannot believe anyone is going to stale!

[Xietor]

Welcome Back Llamabeast!

I am sure I speak for all of us when I say we hope you had a blast at the Festival.


May the clash of the titans continue! Time for a pretender to be crowned.

[Xietor]

I am for moving the game back to 48 hours. There is no diplomacy that I am aware of, and I have the biggest empire to manage.

If I can do my turns in 48 hours, I think it is a reasonable expectation that the rest can do their turn in 48 hours as well. Of course, if I am out voted, I will go with the majority.

[Tyrant]

Welcome back Llama. I'll change my vote to 48, there's not much thinking to be done at this stage and if i stale a few that's just the way it goes.

[llamabeast]

At Valerius' request I'm postponing the current hosting by 24 hours.

[Xietor]

And so passes the last remnants of Glom Glacierchild.

Once there were 10, now only 5 pretenders remain in contention.

MA Pangaea
Marignon
Ermor
Vanheim
Ryleh

[llamabeast]

War envelops the globe. R'lyeh swarms onto Marignon's land, Demon Lords and Vastnesses terrifying the populace while the angels gather to plan their defence. Pangaea and Ermor plunge into the sea to strike at the heart of R'lyeh's power. And all the time the Great Enigma, He Who has Not Been In Many Wars, Vanheim, stands watching...

[Xietor]

if someone needs an extension, i feel they should post it on this thread. In my epic heroes game, I require anyone wanting an extension to post on the thread so all the players know why the game host is being delayed.

I do not think the game should be delayed merely because 1 or more players has not done a turn. Some race's interest in the game may have waned because their position is bleak. But if they stale they stale.

Will not matter much either way.

[llamabeast]

The minor postponements over the last couple of hours have been me, because I wasn't able to get time on the computer as early as I'd hoped. But no one has contacted me to ask for an extension. I wonder if Vanheim and Ermor are still thinking of it as a 72 hour timer?

[Xietor]

They get an email notification like everyone else.

[llamabeast]

Yes, they do. Still, that only makes a difference if they're sitting at their computers.

I think this'll annoy you Xietor, but I think I will postpone the turn by 12 hours. I know Vanheim commented on the last turn that he really didn't want to stale, so I would rather not let him or Ermor stale at this stage of the game. But guys, please take the turn ASAP.

[llamabeast]

Pity, as I want to see the turn! Die demons, die!

[llamabeast]

Hi guys,

I just rather abused my power as host again and postponed the hosting by 2 hours - sorry for keeping on doing this. Not that it makes much difference but it feels a bit cheeky as none of the rest of you can do it so easily. I'm moving house at the mo and it's proving rather disruptive as you might expect.

[Xietor]

I was ambushed! heh.

Welcome to World War III Vanheim. The more at war the more fun it is.

[llamabeast]

Wow, dramatic times. I think finally everyone is at war, after what must the longest Cold War period I've ever seen in a Dominions game.

So guys, I just got a call yesterday from my Dad, and apparently he's managed to get a last minute deal on a cottage in Cornwall (which is a very beautiful county in the very southwest of England), so I will be going down with my family for a week, leaving tomorrow morning! So I am afraid I will have to put the game on pause again for a week - really sorry to do this just when it's getting exciting. After that anyway I will not be going on holiday again for ages (probably Christmas I think).

[llamabeast]

Lol Vanheim, that must be the most decisive defeat I've ever seen, let alone suffered!

(Commanders 48, killed 46,
Regular units 446, killed 444

all before my army took a turn! Cursed Rain of Stones.)

Nevertheless, it's only a minor setback for the mighty empire of Marignon. I wasn't really depending on those 400-odd wolves. And, er, witch hunters are replaceable.

[llamabeast]

And who on earth wished for Armageddon (I assume that's what it was)? Aargh! My best astral mage and on of my angels at least fell through the cracks. Dread to think what else I'm going to discover is missing.

[llamabeast]

Aaargh! You killed a fairy! Fairy killer!

[Valerius]

@Xietor: Yeah, I figured it was about time I joined the fun. I think I've had enough of playing Vanheim as a research nation. R'lyeh and I can die together instead of one at a time.

@llamabeast: Ever since my war with Arco in this game I thought rain of stones was a great spell on defense but I've never seen it do that! But I have no doubt you've got a lot better stuff on the way than hundreds of wolves...

This turn went better than I expected considering I staled. Not sure what happened with that, I thought I still had a half hour. Oh well.

My poor Vans, attacked by plague and flame. They fought well against Pangaea last turn but I think their time has passed.

[llamabeast]

Oooh dear. I hadn't realised you staled. I thought you must have taken your turn since the turn hosted ahead of time. Having investigated, it seems it was my fault. What happened was I changed the hosting interval to (n+48) hours, which has the side effect of postponing hosting by n hours, then brought the hosting forward by n hours, which should have cancelled to produce no overall effect. However, the way the server interprets commands received all at once which apply to the same setting (the hosting time in this case), it only uses the last one (there's good reasons for that that I'll have to think about). So in the end what it did to the hosting time was bring it forward by n hours, making it in the past, so the turn hosted right away.

So, I'm really really sorry about that. I hope you hadn't spent too much time on the turn already. Perhaps I ought to stale next turn in an attempt to restore some modicum of fairness. Maybe I ought to think about making changes to the way the server processes simultaneous commands as well.

On rain of stones: Yeah, it's really vicious on defense isn't it? Not quite sure how to counter it, apart from only using troops who are too tough to die to it. I was astonished it killed every single wolf though, I didn't think it was quite that good. Well, I see now why you had a small force of ethereal things defending that province - very cunning indeed.

So, was it you who armageddoned us all? Of course you don't have to say.

[Xietor]

The moral to that story is do not wait until the last minute to do your turn!

Vans are tough, but once they appear, they are be killed by overland spells-like anything else

Tyrant is just a sore sport with the Armageddon. He should have used those astral gems to dispel my Thetis Blessing. Dominion killing a foe is ALWAYS fun! And I am not sure Tyrant can avoid that fate.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

* my Big Gun just sits waiting...... When will the Gorgon Pounce? Maybe on top of 80 Tartarian Gates? Who will win?

[llamabeast]

Alright guys, I will set it up so that next turn will process 72 hours after this one did, and the following one 5 days after that, when I'm back. I will stale the current turn as a self-wrist-slapping gesture for staling Vanheim. Also I haven't got time to take it, between moving house and suddenly going away!

[Valerius]

No, Xietor, the moral to the story is have less work and join fewer games. I guess I should have considered they'd take a lot more time once they got past the early game. Well, I guess you guys will help me out soon enough by removing me from this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

llamabeast please DO NOT stale deliberately. There is no need. One stale won't change me being defeated but it will effect you since you are one of the nations still in the running to win.

[llamabeast]

At Valerius' kind insistence (he sent me a PM too) I won't deliberately stale this turn after all. So, the next hosting is delayed until 21:30 next Saturday, the 15th(!) of September. Let battle be joined then!

[llamabeast]

Argh, how come my Petrify didn't work on R'lyeh's thrice accursed arch devil, that's what I want to know. I thought that was unresistable. I guess maybe it just paralyzed for zero turns. Anyway, that's two SCs sent to inferno without ever seeing any action. *Sniff*

[Xietor]

The Petrify can be resisted, the paralyzed effect cannot be resisted. I guess it is possible it was paralyzed for only 1 turn. Typically the paralyze does not last long, but usually 2-5 rounds.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, that's exactly how I understood it. Definitely not paralyzed even briefly. Miserable sequence of events:

Tartarian Cyclops and two Devil-killing Harbingers cloud trapeze on top of devil.
-- Battle starts --
- Devil flies in and sends a fully kitted Harbinger to Inferno

- Tartarian Cyclops casts Petrify
- Second Harbinger casts Mistform

- Devil sends Cyclops to Inferno

- Second Harbinger flees

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[llamabeast]

Oh dear, we're getting a good bit of staling from R'lyeh and Ermor. Are you still around guys?

[GameExtremist]

Wow...I just hooked up my internet in my new mine house since moving away 2 months ago.....hehe this game sounds like it turned out pretty awesome!

Have fun guys!
Game

[Xietor]

Tyrant and Sieger are doing turns in their other games. So they are still around.

I do not think either ermor or ryleh has a realistic chance to win, so their lack of interest given the delays etc is understandable. I think vanheim took the wind of of ermor's sails when he took down well of misery.

[llamabeast]

It has, to be fair, been an extraordinarily static game for Ermor and R'lyeh (and Vanheim, until very recently), I absolutely can't blame them if they're losing interest a bit. I've found personally that I begin to stop enjoying Dominions games when "cold war" periods go on too long (I was going off this one for a while before the Great War started) - in future I plan to make sure I have war all the way!

This is getting quite dramatic now though, at least for me, Vanheim and Pangaea. R'lyeh has caused considerable trouble (especially with that Infernal Scythe!), but I guess it could be frustrating that he's outnumbered and Vanheim can't easily support him. As for Vanheim - well he mentioned he was scared of us and thought he had no chance of winning, and I'm scared witless of him! Hundreds of freaking Tartarians! Master Enslave! I guess it's a bit like spiders ("They're just as scared of you as you are of them").

[llamabeast]

Hi guys, I'm going away this weekend (last trip away of quite a busy summer, I'm going to write sketches with some friends who are putting on a comedy show), so I've extended the timer of the _coming_ turn by 24 hours. The timer for the current turn remains the same (hosting in 6 hours or so).

Really getting into this game again now there's a lot of action. I've managed to put a lot of time into the last two turns (more than an hour both times), so hopefully, Vanheim, you're beginning to feel the heat!

[Xietor]

Vanheim appears to be losing provinces. What is happening?

Whatever happens to Vanheim, though, I will applaud Val as the most chivalrous player I have EVER encountered. He likely could have won the game earlier if he was more ruthless.

/bow.

[llamabeast]

Really sorry guys, I just postponed the hosting by 24 hours. Unexpectedly spent the entire night (6 hours!) furniture shopping last night. I have to say, moving house into a real house (rather than student accommodation) takes a _lot_ more time than you might think.

Agreed with Xietor about Valerius' chivalry. In fact you seem to have been almost a complete pacifist Valerius. But doing things like restoring Caelum's provinces were quite... astonishing.

[Valerius]

Thanks guys! It does occur to me that maybe I'm unclear on the concept of this game ... you know, actually conquer other nations.

This was my first MP game where I got to choose a nation so I went with Vanheim because I had spent most of my SP time playing bless nations. I never planned to rush anyone because it doesn't seem like a fun experience to be on the receiving end of a dual bless Van rush. All my neighbors were willing to sign NAPs and I started in a good position with lots of indie provinces available. So, I decided to play Vanheim as a turtle nation. Which actually worked out quite well. But I made a lot of mistakes: good relations with everyone but no allies, didn't apply research advantages to gain more provinces, and in general just not aggressive enough.

Sorry I haven't put up a better fight here in the end game. I definitely joined too many games and in addition to a shortage of time at the moment I just feel overwhelmed with managing the end game.

I'm glad we've got an extra 24 hours for this turn. I may do a poor job of it but this turn I'm sending out my tartarians.

[Digress]

Huzzah ... go Vanheim. The Caelian dead salute you.

[Xietor]

Report to Lord of Forest:

Sire, your never defeated armies stormed and captured the Ryleh capital. Among the dead are its false Pretender, Blood Royalty, numerous starspawns, and foul creatues of the void.

We also captured many clams and other items to further the war effort. We have also summoned 2 of the water queens we previously slew and they now serve your eminence loyally-one even participated in the taking of the Ryleh capital.

We have now captured 5 Ryleh castles sire, and 2 more are under siege. Your dominion covers the world like a soothing blanket, and you now have 4 times as many worshipers as any other race.

We are pleased to report that your 4th global, Gift of Health, has already healed many of the faithful. Together with Haunted Forest, and even our province defense armies will take a heavy toll on anyone foolish enough to fight in your dominion.

Your hordes of Wights are now ready to enter service my Lord, led by newly healed Tartarian Gates. Healed of afflictions, they now wield new battle magics against which your enemies will not stand.

In all but name my lord, the Water Lord is defeated. We can now focus our armies on the Vanheim. Where they have seen only a finger, they will now see an arm-an arm with a huge Hammer.