Wish-List for Dominions 4 [Archive] - Page 2?login=1

jutetrea

August 25th, 2007, 09:30 PM

Wish: Additional scripting commands (2) - 1x turn Defend and rest of battle Defend.

Defend - unit can not move or perform any actions beyond retaliation and retreat. If unit is attacked it will retaliate via melee and if routed will flee. While in "Defend" mode unit gains defensive benefits (depending on balance, opinions)

Defense + (.5 x current Defense) - 10 def -> 15 while "defending"
"Full focus on dodging enemy blows"
MR + (.33 x current MR, rounded down) - 10 MR -> 13 MR while defending
"Unit is unusually alert to any attempt to alter his thoughts"
----
Or possibly double shield bonus for that battle, shrug.

------------------------
Item
"Blood sodden mail"
BN, BD, or DN
+15 hp, -50FR, (possibly 10% regen or recup)
Either moderate AC (15ish), low enc, -1 (or 2) def
or
High AC (18ish), med enc, -3 (or 4) def

The life energies of xxx sacrifices are captured in this suit of wooden armor. While cumbersome, the energies protect the wearer and impart a portion of their energies into keeping the wearer alive.

I just think it would be cool if there were an item that would enable some of the units that "could" be good thugs but don't quite have the hp for it. A lot of times a 12 hp unit would be just fine as a thug with 27-30 hp. Could use pretty much any item slot, but when creating thugs I always seem to have a very small subset of armors I use. I guess the same could be said of boots/helms as well though.

+15 hp or fear +0?
+15 hp or flying?
+15 hp or Gore?
+15 hp or .....

HoneyBadger

August 26th, 2007, 07:13 PM

I think nature magic should boost your HP instead of regeneration, since the regeneration bonus is bugged anyway.

Kristoffer O

August 27th, 2007, 12:06 PM

> I think nature magic should boost your HP instead of regeneration, since the regeneration bonus is bugged anyway.

Bugged? In what way? It adds +1/skill level to the basic regen value, so a crone of avalon with 8 HP that casts regen on herself should regen 1(10%of HP)+3(nature skill)=4 HP. A lamia queen with 2 nature and 20 HP should regen 10(50%regen)+2(nature skill)=12 HP. Is this not the case?

Regen from bless is 5% at godskill 4.

Edit: HP bonus has been considered in other occasions, but has been discarded. The reason is that HP adjusts slowly. A pretender doesn't get new HP when they enter a new dominion etc. Adding HP would be problematic if you trade items back and forth to increase HP, unless the curent mechanic was remade. THis is perhaps more true in the case of HP-adding items, which were considered before the release. We found some problems to it that were not easily solved. I can't remember the details, but JK had me convinced it was problematic.

But apart from that I like the idea.

HoneyBadger

August 27th, 2007, 03:42 PM

Doesn't work, last time I checked-if it did, I'd use wyrms a lot more often.

Try building a wyrm with 10 nature and one with 0 nature, and see what happens to it's natural Regeneration-I'd love to be proven wrong on this, since I use Regeneration a lot.

Autochthon

September 2nd, 2007, 06:21 PM

Underwater combat either on or near the surface of the water, with Aquatic units capable of deep-striking like Flying units can in overland combat.

Amphibians would then fight near the surface of the water, as they should not be capable of deep diving.

Autochthon

September 2nd, 2007, 06:30 PM

Oooh, another one...

Bashing weapons that have less Strength than their bladed cousins, but have a chance for Knockdown/Stun/Paralyze?

Burrowing/Underground troops that can ignore intervening terrain and deepstrike like fying troops? Natch, they'd have a much slower strategic and tactical move.

Folket

September 3rd, 2007, 01:04 PM

Allmost only tritons and mermen should be able to near the surface since they swim. The other amphibious/Aquatic units walk on the bottom of the ocean.

Tiavals

September 3rd, 2007, 04:25 PM

I'd really like it if Jotunheim(of all ages perhaps?) could summon Rimtursar. Huge, size 6 giants with monstrous magic abilities. That'd be awesome.

Also, for Vanheim the ability to summon Aesir.

I do so like the god-like beings from the beginnings of time. More high level summon spells that can evoke them. Thematic spells for every nation. Some nations don't always have even a single one, I think?

Autochthon

September 3rd, 2007, 10:36 PM

Folket said:
Allmost only tritons and mermen should be able to near the surface since they swim. The other amphibious/Aquatic units walk on the bottom of the ocean.

Actually, I was thinking more the other way around...

Y'see, only truly aquatic creatures have the capacity to operate at deeper depths than merely amphibious creatures.

They are more mobile and can rely on other senses to compensate for the lack of light in such an environment.

So instead of setting underwater combat on the floor, make it near the surface and allow aquatic units to dive up from the depths, the inverse of what flying units do now.

This does bring up the question on where exactly buildings are if not on the floor, but then again, do they really have to?

Hmmmm...

DenStoreFrelser

September 5th, 2007, 05:28 PM

Tiavals said:
I'd really like it if Jotunheim(of all ages perhaps?) could summon Rimtursar. Huge, size 6 giants with monstrous magic abilities. That'd be awesome.

Also, for Vanheim the ability to summon Aesir.

I believe the Aesir are mostly dead (Description for the pretender Asynja), and there weren't a whole lot of them to begin with (Norse mythology).

As for summoning the Rimtursar, I suggest you skip the next part of this post for the summary.

I'm not too clear on this topic, but why would they be bigger than their descendants, the Niefel giants? Don't they die out between the early and middle ages instead of crossbreeding with lesser races like the other "special" races? This suggests, at least to me, that they CAN'T crossbreed with other races, and so only evolution could cause them to shrink in size. Seeing as the Niefel giants of the early era are considered old when they pass 1000 years suggests that they would normally breed between the ages of 300 and 900, the equivalent of 15 and 45 for humans. Tjatse the Abductor is around a thousand years old in the early ages (If you're lucky you get a few years before old age kicks in, if you're not he's already waiting for afflictions to pop in). He was up and about during the war with the Aesir, which means that unless he was frozen in a glacier for some time, that war was a pretty recent series of events. If the war was so close, then the current Niefel giants that are 350-750 years old are at most three generations away from the Rimtursar. It's unlikely that they would have lost much potential power, both physical and magical, over so short time. Even if he has recently been awakened from millenniums (millenia?) of slumber, then his own stats (One less natural protection, attack and defense, but otherwise equal to a normal Niefel Jarl's) should be enough evidence against larger, much stronger giants. Of course, he is a stronger magician than a jarl, so he's probably not as physically powerful as less magically inclined Rimtursar.

In short, the awakened Rimtursar should in my opinion be size 5 like their descendants the "normal" Niefel giants, and only marginally more powerful (Averaging perhaps one or two paths higher than Niefel Jarls). Of course, awakening the Rimtursar through a summoning ritual alone would be silly, so such a spell would have to be restricted to only be castable during the Illwinter (Or have it's cost reduced during the IW). If it's possible that spells can rely on globals, a national spell for the other norse nations to bring dead Aesir back from the underworld (As in alive, not undead.) through either raw magical power or a deal with Hel (If I remember correctly, this happens with Balder/Baldur in Norse mythology.) to combat the threat of the Illwinter and have another go at the Ragnarok would be equally nice.

Autochthon said:So instead of setting underwater combat on the floor, make it near the surface and allow aquatic units to dive up from the depths, the inverse of what flying units do now.

I think that would create more problems than it solves. However, creating some new very lightly armed triton troops with the ability to swim up above the battlefield and strike from above like ordinary fliers, or giving some of the quickest aquatic troops that ability wouldn't be as bad as having meteorite guards swimming around in iron armor.

As a suggestion not based on anything I've seen anyone else post here: The amulet of the fish turns air into water around the wearer. Shouldn't this allow the wearer to cast the spell Summon Water Power anywhere?

HoneyBadger

September 5th, 2007, 06:27 PM

You can't really base anything in mythology on time, simply because time, in mythology, is the absolute most fluid thing imaginable.

So, to say that you've got more powerful creatures from an earlier age, evolution almost doesn't come into it. Generation is much more important, because a few generations back, you might be descended from the Pantokrator. Or the "generations" in question might be thousands upon thousands of years.

Also, in mythology, evolution tends to go somewhat in reverse. The more powerful beings are earlier in time, closer to the Gods, while the recent generations tend to be less and less spectacular-weaker, slower, less intelligent and gifted.

So, you could have Rimtursar being the original, glacial, ice baddies, with the current Niefel giants being midgets in comparison, and have it make sense, because in becoming more and more human/mortal: Ymir to Rimtursar to Niefel to Jotun and beyond, they're diluting their spark of the Original Divine.

llamabeast

September 5th, 2007, 08:39 PM

As a suggestion not based on anything I've seen anyone else post here: The amulet of the fish turns air into water around the wearer. Shouldn't this allow the wearer to cast the spell Summon Water Power anywhere?

Presumably there's not enough water in the little bit provided by the amulet.

Tiavals

September 6th, 2007, 09:11 AM

The thing in mythology is indeed about generations, as was the cultural norm in the past decades. In the past, the elderly people were considered wise and respected, because they were more connected to the cultural ancestors of the people, while after the theory of evolution became widespread, the elderly are despised and considered worthless, while the youth is revered as having the potential to do anything, because it is thought that they are somehow more "advanced" than their ancestors.

As was said, the farther a line goes from the ancestor, the more diluted it becomes, having less and less of the blood of the great ones from before. Plus, in mythology it is almost always so that the earlier creatures were the most powerful, so it's more thematic.

I think in the description of Tj�tse the Abductor it is said he stole the apples of immortality from the Aesir and thus gained an unnaturally long life. You could deduce that he stole the apples after becoming old himself, thus stopping his aging, which in turn can be used to make a hypothesis that the Rimtursar and Aesir lived any number of years ago, from a hundred to tens of thousands.

Also supporting the theory that Rimtursar were large is the Son of Nifel pretender, who himself is size 6 and has almost 100hp. It is said he is descended from the Rimtursar. Now, it could be argued that since he is called the Son of Nifel, he infact is descended from the Nifel Giants, not the Rimtursar, but why is he unnaturally large then? Or is Nifel perhaps the name of some ancient Rimtursar who is the grand ancestor of the whole Nifel giant race?

Perhaps the Rimtursar were mostly ice themselves, with each generation of giants becoming less cold and more human. Sort of like how the Abysians are.

DenStoreFrelser

September 6th, 2007, 05:33 PM

Tiavals said:
Also supporting the theory that Rimtursar were large is the Son of Nifel pretender, who himself is size 6 and has almost 100hp. It is said he is descended from the Rimtursar. Now, it could be argued that since he is called the Son of Nifel, he infact is descended from the Nifel Giants, not the Rimtursar, but why is he unnaturally large then? Or is Nifel perhaps the name of some ancient Rimtursar who is the grand ancestor of the whole Nifel giant race?

Perhaps the Rimtursar were mostly ice themselves, with each generation of giants becoming less cold and more human. Sort of like how the Abysians are.

You've got me on the time bit, but there's still Tjatse (I thought his name was spelled with an a, not an �, but I could be mistaken.) himself to suggest that the Rimtursar in general might not have been much larger than their descendants. Also, the Niefel giant description says that they "have sprung from the glaciers of Niefelheim". This could mean that they do not have generations at all, and that they are born from the glacial ice itself, and "descended from" is used only to show that their current society as a whole is descended from the one of old. Their high chill effect, which puts the "winds of the underworld" of some undead units to shame, would also be hard to top. The Son of Niefel has a weaker chill effect than Tjatse (I forgot to note this above, but Tjatse has a chill rating of 21, as compared to the Jarl's 17, the ordinary giant or Son of Niefel's 15) or even the Niefel Jarls, which makes me think he is nothing more than a large ordinary giant, perhaps (If their biology permits it) of prominent heritage or born during a time when the glaciers were larger/colder than usual. His title could simply mean that he was born in Niefelheim.

llamabeast said:
Presumably there's not enough water in the little bit provided by the amulet.

The amulet turns the air around the wearer to water, which might help the wearer absorb water from the air surrounding his own layer of water. The spell description doesn't say anything about what in the water the mage gathers power from, so if it happens to be the currents or something similar, then the mage would need to have skill in air magic as well to "translate" similar movements in the air. Of course, this is way too much work for something this insignificant. I guess the reason I thought it up was that I kind of expect Nethack-like details in all the games I play.

HoneyBadger

September 6th, 2007, 07:13 PM

Niefelheim is (kinda/sorta) the name of the place where the Niefel giants live/originated. But, it's really more of an idea, since Niefelheim is the place of endless cold, in Norse mythology. "Son of Niefel" or Nifel, if you like, is suggesting that the Pretender is the spiritual descendant, or inhabitant once-removed, from that place. Like a "Son" of Britain, or an "American Son".

There's no real embodimental ruler of Niefelheim in Norse mythology, that I'm aware of, although Muspelheim, it's hot counterpart, was ruled by one of the largest and most dangerous giants, Surtr.

Ymir would be the actual father of the Jotun race-which includes the Niefel giants, the latter-day Jotuns, the Muspel (fire) giants, the mountain giants, and even the sea giants (for there were such things), as well as being the father-through the line of Thrudgelmir-of the Troll race. Ymir may or may not have been the grandfather of the Aesir, that's debateable, but the Jotun race was certainly able to interbreed with the Aesir.

Ymir was so big that his corpse was used to create the very stuff of the world, and from his corpse was spawned the Dwarf race, transformed from maggots, and the Human race, created from trees. So yeah, Ymir was biiiiig.

Labling a Jotun as, say, a "mountain" or "sea" giant is dangerous though, because they varied greatly in power and nature, and while some would qualify as, say, an "ice giant", they were every bit as complex as humans, and even more so, being an ancient, magically powerful, and ultimately alien, unpredictable, mysterious and protean race.

Some Jotuns were themselves as large as mountain-ranges, but they could also be human-sized, or atleast Aesir-sized, and they ranged from extremely hideous (tusks, multiple limbs-Thrudgelmir had 6 heads, etc.), to quite beautiful-the wives of the Aesir. They could also commonly change shape, into not only eagles, but otters and wolves. Maybe not all of them, but certainly a good portion of the population.

This was exemplified to the greatest degree in Loki, who was half (muspel) giant, half Aesir, and could change his shape into anything, male or female, and even give birth.

Tiavals

September 7th, 2007, 12:52 PM

You're right DenStoreFrelser, it is Tjatse, my fault. Also, you might have a point about the Nifel giant origin. But it also says that the Rimtursar are their ancestors. Perhaps they turned into glaciers when they died. Also, the Son of Niefel could just be a giant between the Jotun and Niefel giants, that is, a lesser giant. He's just become powerful enough to become a god. Doesn't matter what his origins are, since many mages are pretenders while they're humans. Yet HoneyBadger offers a good explanation as well.

Regardless, I want to see the Rimtursar in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Autochthon

September 8th, 2007, 03:38 PM

Here's another idea...

Can we get an in-game mp3 player? Something that allows us to select and change the sounds and music used. Not only does this help create more ambience (Your own theme music? Yes, please.), but also can provide an audio cue to the conditions in the game.

For example, you can set music to change when your units start reaching a certain threshold Fatigue and/or Morale.

Clicking on a province flag can tell you who it belongs to as well as how strong its Dominion is by the theme music played as well.

Finally, audio is much more amenable for modding than graphics (even those used in Dom3). This allows players to create custom factions "on the cheap".

HoneyBadger

September 8th, 2007, 07:10 PM

Nation+age-specific music, anyone?

Autochthon

September 15th, 2007, 03:22 PM

Another one for the AI/Orders list:

Can we either get Commander order that either stay with/inside a specific squad, or have a squad order that allows them to form around the Commander?

That way, you can simply have your commander move, and your squads assigned to him/her/it simply surround him/her/it and kill anything that gets in the way. It would work wonders for buffing units like Standard Bearers and Commanders w/Leadership

I think a Hit and Away/Skirmish order has been mentioned...

And for gods' sake, why not a "Kill the Mage" spell? After the first Super-Mega-Ultra-Uber-Incantation of Mass Castration(tm), your newly-minted eunuchs would immediately make a beeline for the unconscious dork who make their lives suddenly less enjoyable, no?

The same applies for mages casting support spells. When you see all the hard work you put in rearranging the facial features on the enemy in front of you undone in a flash, you're going to find the person responsible and make him stop in a pointed manner. It's a well-understood rule in MMORPG PvP to kill the healers first.

Autochthon

September 15th, 2007, 03:29 PM

Oh yeah, I'd also like to see battlefield magic rituals.

What I mean is that instead of casting a spell and seeing the effects run themselves, have spells that the mage has to upkeep to keep the effect up.

This allows a mage to trade off greater power (lower path requirements, fatigue efficiency) for less flexibility (can't cast another spell while keeping the current one up, and can't move).

I've seen this in other games, and think it's a neat mechanics. But I don't know if it really adds to gameplay, or complicates it unnecessarily.

SCKnight

October 23rd, 2007, 02:56 PM

Morkilus said:
Have you tried modding, SCKnight? You can get pretty much all of points 1, 2, 3, and 5 with some creativity. 4 already exists, but you have to play with other people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif 6 has been shut down repeatedly by Shrapnel. Well, maybe for Dominions 4, but don't hold your breath.

Oh yeah... You can get a building that raises the morale of troops in the province, and eventually that of surrounding provinces. It's called a "temple" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I'm not really that good with modding. Still, I can't wait to see what Dominions 4 has in store for us!

Edratman

October 23rd, 2007, 03:08 PM

I would like an option on the menu screen to make all AI's allied.

HoneyBadger

October 23rd, 2007, 05:36 PM

Speaking of meteorite guards and their heavy armor, it would be nice if there was a "Bulky" creature ability or class of armor that would grant normal movement in the air, but half movement under the water, and a "Finned" ability/class of armor, that did the opposite.

If you can breathe under water, it hardly matters if you're 10 feet from the surface, or 50 feet, except for questions of water pressure. Heavy metallic armors would actually be useful, since they would help you be more stable and less affected by currents, buoyancy, and momentum.

It would also be useful to have creatures with the ability to "fly" under water-I've heard this did exist at one time, but no longer does.

sansanjuan

February 14th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Apologies if these have been previously discussed or dismissed� Some certainly may not be �DOMish� so they might be toggled.

DOM4 all on/offs

Capture and roleplay statistical anomalies during battle
e.g. a militia man inflicts massive damage and kills a Pretender just based on chance rolls. Capture the battle and promote the unit in some special way. Show a toe to toe replay of just that slugfest.

Map changing spells (certainly high very level)
Raise Land
Sink Land
Wall Province
Change Province type
Etc.

Lairs
Like sites but guarded specifically inside a province. Often contain magic items.

Assassin banding
Allow assassins to coordinate a simultaneous attack on a commander and/or allow a �henchman�

Quests

Tailorable magic items based on gem cost

Endoperez

February 15th, 2008, 07:06 AM

sansanjuan said:
Capture and roleplay statistical anomalies during battle
e.g. a militia man inflicts massive damage and kills a Pretender just based on chance rolls. Capture the battle and promote the unit in some special way. Show a toe to toe replay of just that slugfest.

Lairs
Like sites but guarded specifically inside a province. Often contain magic items.

Quests

Map changing spells (certainly high very level)
Raise Land
Sink Land
Wall Province
Change Province type
Etc.

Tailorable magic items based on gem cost

Few comments:

Dealing the killing blow against certain types of units should be better rewarded. Actually, the experience you get from killing anything could be changed to depend on size of the killed creature: 2 points for humans, 3 for cavalry, 4 for Jotuns, etc. Killing prophets could net you a little bonus, and killing a pretender could give a little more, perhaps something like 25 points of experience. It shouldn't be too much, because otherwise your ally will keep on sending his immortal pretender to be killed by your champion.

Lairs and quests: these could both be done if sites could be made to disappear. There are already at least two sites into which you may enter to try and discover treasure; you'll probably face traps and fight horrors or undead, depending on if you enter The Forgotten City or the City of the Damned, but if you survive you come back with gold, gems or magic items. If these could disappear after a set amount of turns, or after the quest was completed, it'd be close enough. Some "quests" would be solved by magic (a nature site with "mage may enter for adventure", higher magic = better chance of success), by fighting capability, etc etc.

Dominions-type maps are static and can't change, because the map graphics can't change. Two of Illwinter's games could do this. Conquest of Elysium II was tile-based; the tiles based with seasons, you could burn down forests or craft golems out of mines or lakes, destroying them in the process. Dominions: PPP, the first one, had maps where provinces were pixel porridge. Every pixel marked a terrain of spesific type. Growth dominion changed the pixels into green (forest), heat into yellow (waste), etc. I don't think there were any spells that would change provinces' terrain, but it would have been possible. If the Dominions engine is too clumsy to be adapted, the next Illwinter game might allow for something like this.

Tailorable magic items are very easily unbalanced. At the moment, it's impossible to get all the good abilities on a supercombatant. Three immunities, luck and a two-handed weapon is only possible via spesific items: Amulet of Luck is the only non-hand-slot item for Luck, Rime Hauberk gives cold immunity, Ring of Tamed Lighting for shock immunity, Brimztone Boots for fire immunity. If you could just slap luck into Rainbow Armor and shock immunity into Wraith Sword, it would be worth it even if the price doubled, because now you could also give the combatant amulet of anti-magic and regeneration, or change brimstone boots to flying boots and a ring, or something similar. Custom items would be too good.

sansanjuan

February 15th, 2008, 11:21 AM

E,
Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

I didn't think of the Immortal ally trick. Bet that would be a challenging scenario to reconcile for a roleplaying purist.

I understand the nuance of SC being very strong but not in an unbalanced way. Though I am very new I really like the way many "I Win" spells and conditions can be countered by former foes teaming up, sharing gems, etc. Very realistic and beautiful for roleplaying.

On item tailoring...I enjoyed that in the old Masters of Magic but that certainly could spoil the soup here.

You reminded me of perhaps the most important new feature which I forgot to mention (I'm sure a variant is in the long thread). A "Seamless Ally" feature where Dominion penalties don't apply to allies and unstealthy troops can move unhindered through ally lands. Then I could probably talk to wife into playing Dom4 as an ally and get lots of "Spousal Points" for later redemption. That's win-win.
Thanks again,
-SSJ

edit : fixed MoM sentence

moderation

March 31st, 2008, 10:02 PM

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but something needs to be done about the number of idle commanders that is accumulated by mid to late game. Pressing 'n' to cycle through them is incredibly confusing and tedious.

Being able to queue up multi-stage movements for them would help, as would a special command like "idle" which would allow you to bypass them with 'n' and maybe select them with a special "find idle commanders" command, maybe by pressing 'i'.

A global recruit menu with distinctions for castles and "favorite" provinces (e.g. the ones that produce sages) would be great too.

moderation

March 31st, 2008, 11:19 PM

Back / Forward buttons on the game creation screens would be nice too when setting up SP games.

lch

April 2nd, 2008, 10:45 AM

moderation said:
Back / Forward buttons on the game creation screens would be nice too when setting up SP games.

Yeah. I've been asking for that a year or so ago, too. The clunky interface is probably the first thing that sets off potential new users, any improvements there would be crucial.

HoneyBadger

June 21st, 2008, 05:03 AM

Just a show of support to Kristoffer and Johan that we still really, really want Dominions 4!

DaveCG

June 22nd, 2008, 07:41 AM

Damn right we do!

Best �25/$50 I've ever spent.

chrispedersen

November 26th, 2008, 12:46 PM

When you find a magic site,

Goto site - not commander.

Tichy

November 26th, 2008, 01:05 PM

That has been the fond hope of many for a long time, myself included.

MaxWilson

November 26th, 2008, 02:25 PM

I have modded all my maps to include the province number, so my messages look like, "Bob has found a magic site in Goat's Fodder (201)." Then I just go to the map and type #201 to jump to the site. Saves time and aggravation. I posted the script for modifying provinces on these forums a while back, and someone else improved it and re-posted.

-Max

chrispedersen

December 25th, 2008, 11:29 AM

>: cycle through forts that don't have production orders.

Tifone

December 25th, 2008, 12:00 PM

lol, here comes the old one: forge monthly :D

Grottnikk

December 30th, 2008, 07:24 PM

Some of these have been mentioned before, but I'll mention them quickly again (perhaps the number of people requesting a certain addition/change gives that item more weight).

1. Unit formations - at the moment they're all squares. I'd like to make a line of archers or a wedge of cavalry without the need for 20 different commanders and half an hour to individually assign each troop their orders :)

2. Amazons! Amazons! Amazons! I like the ones that we get from individual provinces, and would like to see them made into a full fledged nation. Early age, I'm guessing. Or perhaps Middle Age, when Sauromatia is no longer around, the Amazons could make a comeback.

3. Custom Pretenders - choose the graphics, choose the abilities and stats based on a point system, write a description all your own.

4. The ability to view battles from lands where my spies are hidden.

5. The ability to choose your own starting location when in single player.

6. The ability to back off from attempting to assassinate a target. Many times my assassins have been killed because they picked the wrong target. Perhaps a better way to do it would be to have a list of potential targets in the region and let the player pick which one the assassin will go after. Perhaps for balance, no more than one assassin can attack any one character per turn? Another balancing option would be to have a random chance that the assassin just doesn't get an adequate opportunity to attempt an assassination and therefore no battle that turn.

7. I know someone will horror mark me for this one :angel , but what about the ability to command units on the tactical level in a turn based mode, thus eliminating the need for orders and such? Maybe it could just be an option for those of us who enjoy micromanaging battles?

8. More spells and more research to do. Love the tech tree!

9. The ability to see and approve the random name generated for your Pretender before the game starts. This would avoid players getting unwanted names for their gods.

Gandalf Parker

December 30th, 2008, 08:23 PM

#2 been done I believe. Its a playable mod

#3 already available both as mod and as map commands

#5 available as map commands

#7 I think the devs feel this just doesnt fit the "I am a god" thing

#8 being done in mods

MaxWilson

December 30th, 2008, 08:43 PM

4. The ability to view battles from lands where my spies are hidden.

9. The ability to see and approve the random name generated for your Pretender before the game starts. This would avoid players getting unwanted names for their gods.

#4 is already possible. It shows up in your regular list of battles in messages, or you can just type "V" on the map with that province selected.

Re #9, you might want to check out Gandalf's recent tip on generating LOTS of names for your gods. If you create the pretender beforehand in the "Create a Pretender" screen (from Options, before starting a game), you will already know what his random names are.

-Max

Grottnikk

December 30th, 2008, 09:05 PM

Okay, so I screwed the pooch on a few of those :D

The tactical level change (#7), though, is one that I think might work well because it would make the Pretender even more godlike - I'd think controlling the individual movements of my minions on the battlefield would be more of a power trip. Oh well, to each his own. I love Dominions either way :)

MaxWilson

December 30th, 2008, 09:17 PM

The tactical level change (#7), though, is one that I think might work well because it would make the Pretender even more godlike - I'd think controlling the individual movements of my minions on the battlefield would be more of a power trip. Oh well, to each his own. I love Dominions either way :)

Maybe once you Ascend and are no longer just a pretender to the thone, you get to have perfect control of all units. :) If you are interested in playing out tactically-rich scenarios using Dom3's rules and units, you might check out Omniziron's project "The Fourth Age" which he started recently. It's a roguelike inspired by Dom3, and KO said he doesn't mind if Omniziron invents a future history for the Dom3 nations as long as he doesn't mess up past history. So if you want to make up a 18th century Abysia you might consider contributing to that.

Personally, though, I liked and enjoyed Master of Magic and I liked tactical battles in that game, but it wouldn't seem right IMHO to have tactical-level control in a game where Morale is an important consideration. Imperfect control is part of the game.

AstralWanderer

December 31st, 2008, 07:46 PM

IMHO to have tactical-level control in a game where Morale is an important consideration. Imperfect control is part of the game.Imperfect control could certainly be implemented with a tactical system (and is currently present in part with the rout rules). I would certainly like the option of being able to play out individual battles tactically (perhaps with limitations like "Pretender/Prophet must be present" or "Battlefield must have Dominion level X") since the scripting system seems inadequate in dealing with all the possible options and it requires players to understand how the AI works in order to best position their units.

However I think the big killer feature for Dominions 4 would be a release date! :)

Dectilon

January 1st, 2009, 11:57 AM

Loren

January 2nd, 2009, 03:37 PM

The game needs 3 things as I see it, to break into the mainstream:

- Better visuals obviously. There's a pain barrier there for a lot of people, sadly.

- A better interface. There are still a lot of details that make the game hard to play and somewhat confusing. They're too many to bring up in a short summary.

- Tighter control of units. I'm not talking about micromanagment, but things like target priority, the ability to force spellcasting (i.e have a caster cast a very powerful spell even if the AI deems in unnecessary) etc. Having your mage cast a strenght boost on your priests instead of your knights and not really knowing why is sure to put people off.

Also, separate battle orders.

Battle plans for: Battle, skirmish & assassination. The skirmish plan would take effect in any situation the game currently thinks is too weak for gems. If you want the big guns to be used in an apparently wimpy battle you script them for skirmish.

I would also like to see options like "cast offensive" or "cast defensive"--telling the guy how to behave for the rest of the battle.

rdonj

January 2nd, 2009, 03:47 PM

Also, separate battle orders.

Battle plans for: Battle, skirmish & assassination. The skirmish plan would take effect in any situation the game currently thinks is too weak for gems. If you want the big guns to be used in an apparently wimpy battle you script them for skirmish.

I would also like to see options like "cast offensive" or "cast defensive"--telling the guy how to behave for the rest of the battle.

I like these.

Bananadine

January 6th, 2009, 10:40 PM

This isn't about Dominions 4 so much as it's about Dominions 3, is it? Well here's what I want to see patched in: different fortress icons on the main map! Just a simple little change, purely cosmetic, requiring only a few dozen new icons, perhaps even easily derived from the existing fortress close-up images (the ones you see when you're looking up a fortress' Administration etc.). A great city, a kelp fortress, and a wizard's tower should not look exactly the same. This change would improve the interface and the role-playing experience both!

Another, less likely change I want: more wraparound map support! The map generation is quite cool as it is, but... it always generates corners (as far as I know), and corners are LAME. If the world is really supposed to be flat, then let it be round at least, and surrounded by some kind of stylized void (possibly starry), not by water. (Okay maybe that one is for Dominions 4.) But more importantly, let it be round! I mean, without extensive manual labor on the user's part.

My greatest and least likely to be satisfied desire (for Dominions 5, to be released in 2014 for your Xbox 1080): Full integration of the multiplayer game threads, the game client, and LlamaServer (or its functional equivalent), so that I don't have to have five browser tabs open all the time to play in two multiplayer games, and so that I don't have to keep track of the ever-changing mappings between forum names and nations, and so that I can send somebody a message and get the answer within a single turn without having to worry about whether or not they ever bothered to hook up their forum account to their e-mail address. (N.B.: All of this hassle is still a pretty good price for such an awesome game as Dominions 3.)

lch

January 7th, 2009, 06:11 AM

You didn't play Dom1, did you? The worlds were round and flat there.

Sombre

January 7th, 2009, 08:23 AM

I believe I updated a round dom1 map for dom3. I think it was called Circlani, if you want to look it up.

Gandalf Parker

January 7th, 2009, 01:12 PM

There is also Harbringers map generator which does wraparround maps very nicely.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/Small_Wrapped/Small_Wrapped.htm

Im working at restoring my daily-generated map library to include some created with his program. First I want to play abit with his new sprite option. His latest map examples are quite promising.
http://paradoxharbinger.wikidot.com/screenshots

Wellsee

January 7th, 2009, 08:56 PM

I just read the first couple of pages and the last, and am merely a newbie player, but I'll still chime in.

I wish there was some sort of 'clear shot' order for archers. It is frustrating seeing them shred my own troops trying to hit a straggler or two. It isn't advanced intelligence (of human or computer types) to recognize disastrous shots.

I also get frustrated when gemmed mages use them in overpowered battles, like when a handful of militia are thrown at my main army. So the suggestions for things like battle vs skirmish vs assassination orders ring true.

And finally, as a now and probably forever *single* player type, I want to either be able to configure keys or move the the damned 'e'nd turn key away from 'r'ecruit key! I'm never closer to punching my keyboard than when I make that mistake. :doh:

Bananadine

January 7th, 2009, 10:26 PM

And finally, as a now and probably forever *single* player type, I want to either be able to configure keys or move the the damned 'e'nd turn key away from 'r'ecruit key! I'm never closer to punching my keyboard than when I make that mistake. :doh:

You might try this EZ workaround: http://www.typematrix.com/ezr2030/dvorak.html

Okay I'm joking, mostly. But it really is a fantastic keyboard. :)

Wellsee

January 8th, 2009, 12:04 PM

You might try this EZ workaround: http://www.typematrix.com/ezr2030/dvorak.html

Okay I'm joking, mostly. But it really is a fantastic keyboard. :)

haha! Thanks for the outside-the-box idea. I'm not sure which would be more painful, though: Learning to type dvorak style (and switching back and forth with qwerty since I work on multiple stations in different states) or the upside-down-tack-on-the-e-key solution I've been toying with. ;)

Gandalf Parker

January 8th, 2009, 01:09 PM

Are you windows? This is pretty easy in linux. Not sure in Mac. I thought there was a keymap program in windows. On my WinXP I use AHK.

There are macro programs which can be used to define your own actions to a hotkey. Some will let you override a keypress's default action. Ive gotten AutoHotKey to override the "e" in Dominions. It basically says "when e is pressed send E". It keeps me from using it to do things like name my pretender or rename units to anything with an "e" in it. Im sure there is a way in AutoHotKey to tell it "when e is pressed then just send e" but I havent bothered to find out. Its just as easy to turn the macro on and off.

Its also great for late-game micromanagement, or for setting automatic go-to for build queues, or for automating build queues.

sourdust

March 1st, 2010, 08:58 PM

1) Custom forging. Allow players to improve ordinary or magical equipment by selecting from a broad range of existing traits. For example, I could add "luck" to an item - but it would be more expensive than forging a luck pendent. Maybe S3, instead of the S1 that a pendent requires. Also perhaps a chance of failure.

2) Prevent tiny suicide armies from being able to pin down much larger armies. I've been frustrated by AI attacking me with 11 suicidal militia, but in doing so holding up a 200-unit army for an entire turn. I think that if an army takes less than 5% casualties, it should be allowed to continue with a plotted move rather than held up for the turn.

3) Better controls for battle replays - give us rewind and fast forward buttons. I frequently find myself wanting to go back a few frames for a closer look at something, but having to replay the whole battle to do that.

4) Related point - have an event-by-event log for battles that one has the option to view. ie, click on "battle log" and you get a blow-by-blow text description of everything that happened.

5) Better info on dominion changes. I would love to be able to see via map shading where dominion has changed over the previous turn, and/or last 5 turns. ie, "red" provinces are where I lost dominion, "green" are where I gained, with darkness indicating the degree of change.

6) spells that affect the dominion contest. for example, an air spell that spread the voice of your god, increasing the effectiveness of your temple checks by 20% for that turn. Or a death spell that reduces enemy dominion in a province you own by 3 steps, at the cost of unrest and population loss. You get the idea...

7) Better audio cues for what's happening in a battle. I'd love a different sound for attacks that miss completely, attacks that are blocked by shield, attacks that hit but cause no damage due to protection, and attacks that hit and cause damage.

8) Ability to see # kills for any unit, not just those in the Hall of Fame.

9) Better spell control and AI - some of the options canvassed in this thread are good. I want my Black Dryads to cast Banish on enemy undead, not summon pitiful skeletons!

10) More statistics - per turn and lifetime kills, points of damage inflicted, casualties taken, kill ratio, gems collected and spent, etc etc. I love seeing this info!

11) At end of game, ability to review the game in various ways - ie, replay key battles, view a map-based movie of the expansion and contraction of dominion and ownership of various nations, etc. I used to love this feature of "Warlords II", that old SSG classic!

12) Ability to revert to earlier versions of a saved game, rather than always playing "hardcore" mode. Of course, "hardcore" is the only real option for MP, but I play single player mostly, and would like the ability to reload if I've misclicked or forgotten something really important.

13) Even more nations! I love how most existing nations are inspired by actual human mythology. Some cultures with very rich traditions that don't yet have a Dom3 nation include: Indigenous australian, melanesian, polynesian, inuit, North American indian.

14) Much more diversity in random events and magic sites. The existing usual random events (unrest, gems, etc) get quite boring after a while.

15) A really s***-hot online support site, incorporating an officially supported wiki but also with downloads, maps, mods, etc... A forum is generally not the best way to present all of this information!

Gandalf Parker

March 1st, 2010, 09:21 PM

Nice stuff, well thought out. Some points though...

3. in BATTLE VIEW
q -- quit out of battle view
Space -- pause
w -- toggle map grid
f -- fast-forward the battle movie
n -- advance battle movie to next round
Sorry, no rewind that I know of.

4. COMBAT LOG the command line switch -d or -dd for more will create a debug log with that information and much more.

12. REVIEW TURNS As a pbem game it creates an entire turn file ech time you host. Saving that will save that turn which can be reviewed later. there are some player done utilities that can copy the game directory to a backup.

13. MORE NATIONS The game has extensive modding ability. In the mods directory you will find many player created nations. Some fill the ones you requested and are very well done. You can play with as many as 95 nations in one game.

14. EVENTS/MAGICSITES For diversity in magic sites there is a "Magic Site Mod" which adds many interesting ones. There is also Epic Heroes and Worthy Heroes which adds more heros to pop up. And Mytheology mod adds many interested pretenders. The program SemiRand can add many surprises to a map. One of the servers www.Dom3Minions.com (http://www.Dom3Minions.com) has some variant games which can be quite a change and some of the versions can be played solo.

15. ONLINE SUPPORT We have a really great official wiki but its down at the moment. Im not sure if anyone has told Shrapnel. If you visit one of the main MP servers www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) there is a mod/map browser which is fairly complete

Gandalf Parker

Olive

March 2nd, 2010, 05:36 AM

Is a Dominions 4 really in development or scheduled ? Or those are just player's wishes ? :)

Okay, here are mines :

- Better AI for SP. Maybe using something like Open AI ?

- Real 3D. Maybe using an open source 3D engine ?

Sombre

March 2nd, 2010, 10:00 AM

Is a Dominions 4 really in development or scheduled ?

No.

John_Madlock

March 2nd, 2010, 10:01 AM

Province Defense based on independent units.
Taxes depend on the presence of the garrison.
Uprising for independence!
Commanders production queue and no "one per turn" limit anymore
Army setup for the whole army on one screen.

nordlys

March 3rd, 2010, 06:38 PM

Well, if we can dream...

AI diplomacy. Being able to trade, NAP, ally with AI and then AIs doing that too between themselves. Supported by game functions (i.e. allied armies able to pass one's territory without combat, and fighting together if engaged by third party). Some nations would be naturally more friendly or hostile to one another, gifts could be used to improve their disposition, and then some nations could be "disgusting" (cue MOO2) and nobody would ever want to have anything with them (yes, LA Ermor, I am speaking to you :D )

With that comes a proper trading interface. Should also include units and lands alongside gems and items. Maybe even the knowledge of spell schools.

A global army list detailed either on nation overview screen or in a separate screen.

An army mode and a nation overview NOT slowing down the computer to a crawl when more than a couple of screens long would be helpful, too.

Rewind and text log for battle replays are welcome too. Like it's done in many soccer management games, there is a visual display of a match accompanied with a running commentary on who does what. Could be used to quickly jump to a point in a replay you actually need to see (i.e. when your uberSC was battered to death by a monkey PD) without having to skip 30 turns of nothing going on.

Some more creature tags to make a variety of things more exclusive would be nice too. Like, "needs not breathe" (and so, when lacking an UW capability, can't get one from UW-breathing items). Or immune to shapeshifting effect from lycanthropos amulet and pebble skin suit (couldn't possibly work on undead, could it?)

Some exclusive ways to remove the curses (how good a god are you if you can't remove a curse from your follower?). Maybe some national unit-exclusive ability like Arco's healers, an artifact to hold (again, like the chalice), a high-level holy ritual to cast on a single unit, a rare site to enter or some kind of a simulated quest to undertake (as a random event or as a kind of "claws of kocytos", with a commander disappearing on a quest and then either perishing or eventually returning redeemed).

John_Madlock

March 4th, 2010, 02:27 PM

(how good a god are you if you can't remove a curse from your follower?).
And prophet or priest may cast Smite, bless etc. but God can't. This is unrealistic too.

Belac

March 4th, 2010, 04:03 PM

I'd like to see an Alchemical Rendering action. Take a magic item and destroy it, recovering some fraction of the gems it took to create it (50%? With an item that improves the percentage to 75%? And an Artifact that does this when it kills a magic-item-using enemy?)

nordlys

March 6th, 2010, 12:06 PM

And prophet or priest may cast Smite, bless etc. but God can't. This is unrealistic too.

A priest uses his own faith to channel a god's power to perform miracles. A god himself lacks that kind of faith, being aware of a bigger picture.

Even a wish cannot be used to remove curses, I think. And a wish is something that should be able to undo absolutely anything, from afflictions to horror marks.

Gandalf Parker

March 6th, 2010, 12:13 PM

Also keep in mind that altho we often refer to it incorrectly, it is NOT a god. Its a "pretender". A powerful individual but a wannabe god who will ascend IF he can get enough people to follow him. So priests gain faith by belief but the pretender has to wait for that kindof power.

Bananadine

March 6th, 2010, 12:25 PM

Yeah, I always figure that there'd be a period of consolidation after a god defeats the other would-be gods, and maybe then horror marks and such would be dealt with--or maybe not. Possibilities are open, because that period isn't represented by the game.

Gregstrom

March 6th, 2010, 04:35 PM

Also, why should curses/horror marks be reversible? IIRC, in Greek mythology once the Furies had marked you for a fall even Zeus had no say in the matter.

In flavour terms, it has always seemed to me that Horrors are from somewhere outside the Pantokrator's sphere of influence. If that is his case, why should any mere mages or pretenders be able to have any say over what they do (beyond bribing them to put their attentions in a certain direction, that is)?

nordlys

March 7th, 2010, 05:44 PM

Correct, but if we can "wish" even for doom horrors themselves and they can't do anything but pop up (whether for good or for ill, that's another story), a plain beacon for horrors should be trivial to deal with by means of "wishing". I am not asking for any lesser means, but a "wish" is thematically ought to be an ultimate healing resource, able to deal with curses, afflictions, marks, insanity, old age, whatever.

Point about Furies taken, but we're speaking of curses given away left and right by lousy S1 shamans, not by The Kindly Ones :) Somebody's got to eventually have found a way to deal with something as common a nuisance, and unlike horrors, it doesn't even come from the great lovecraftian beyond where basic rules of the Creation cease to function.

BigDaddy

March 7th, 2010, 05:47 PM

I think you should be able to wish for traits, such as trample, immortal, fire resistance, etc...

Burnsaber

March 7th, 2010, 06:04 PM

I am not asking for any lesser means, but a "wish" is thematically ought to be an ultimate healing resource, able to deal with curses, afflictions, marks, insanity, old age, whatever.

I think you should be able to wish for traits, such as trample, immortal, fire resistance, etc...

Or you know, you could just wish for a Chayot, Seraph or one of those big Lanka demons (Rudra, Rudara?) and get a new fresh SC, that's likely better than the old one.

Wish is so expensive that you will go for the strongest option, adding a buch of commands that are sub-optimal would be kind of moot.

thejeff

March 7th, 2010, 06:35 PM

Well if wish cleared horror marks, it might well be worth it for a pretender, who's in danger of dropping into the Horror mark Death Spiral.

Especially if he's your only Wish caster, without empowering one of those Wished up SCs. And even that might not give you the path combinations you'd designed the pretender for.

nordlys

March 7th, 2010, 07:39 PM

Wishing for "death" or for one of doom horrors is not particularly optimal either, but these options are present.

Besides, SP is not about minmaxing cost-effectiveness, it's about exploring and experimenting.

BigDaddy

March 7th, 2010, 08:47 PM

If you're feeling adventuress then just wishing for power might not be enough, you'll need imortality too... plus you can't get much more thematic than wishing for immortality.

Corporal Kindel

March 17th, 2010, 01:16 PM

I think there needs to be a 9th magical path: "Life"

We got a "death" magic path that includes demons, a "blood" path that includes un-dead, now we need a "life" path that includes angels & archangels, who would be summoned from the conjuration school. "Life" would be a strong healing type magic path with little/no offence (since we have plenty of that already) and include upper level spells for removing curses & horror-marks, spells for healing specific type inflictions (and poison damage), and spells to remove curses from artifacts would be great too. There would be a need for a new type of magic gem, say something like "water of life" that could be made by "life" priests in a similar mechanic to how blood magic/priests works [minus the sacrificing :) ].

It would be a kool mechanic if archangels had an "aura of healing" power that could increase health (remove damage) from units in battle withing a certain radius, similar to how the "cold" and "heat" specialized units do heat damage in a radius, since there's a precedent for this it shouldn't be too difficult to script. Maybe angels can do this too but within a smaller radius.

Personally, I'd like to see levels increase also. Spells that are more powerful, say up to 15th level with corresponding more powerful (and more expensive) artifacts/armor would be great. A piece of armor that costs 100 gems to make but was incredibly strong would increase options for players (bangs per buck most wouldn't buy it, but it would be great to have the option nonetheless).

I think there's a huge room for more & varied magical weapons as well as more unique items. A fourth version of the game should included at minimum a thousand more items/armor/swords/artifacts. Odd combinations such as fire/water, water/blood, and nature/death/blood could provide a lot of additional variety that is possible for this game.

Having a larger "mod" space would be great for really big mods too, or more than 4 at once, say 8 or 10.

At the new 15th level, have spells available such as "summon/resurrect god", which would be a unique highly powerful unit for each nationality. It would be great if some of the god's abilities (or even the whole enchilada) could be defined by the player before game, in a manner similar to pretender design. Or even, a "resurrect the Pantokrator" (whatever the hell that is) would be huge. This would also be a unique unit that could only be summoned once in the game by any nation that met the spell reqs.

Of course, most games would not last this long, perhaps only on large maps. But, this would be great for players who like large maps and long games and not the 1,2,3 and it's over small game. It could also turn the tide if the game happened to be evenly matched this far into the game.

I'd love to be able to mod these things into the game but it can't be done without a game re-design (at least the additional levels & ninth magic path).

Luckmann

March 17th, 2010, 11:30 PM

UI and control additions and streamlining.

This is seriously everything I want.

nordlys

March 20th, 2010, 09:16 PM

A thought occured to me: the current point-distribution scheme for research is too generic and unthematic. I'd make it so an invididual researcher can only focus at one school at a time, kind of like Hearts of Iron 2 with its researcher teams being assigned to specific projects. The current interface could remain as a shortcut to mass-switch multiple researchers from one project to the next, but finetuning it on point-by-point basis would go. At very least, spreading a researcher across several projects would severely penalize his output. In addition, an aptitude to a specific school could develop over time, a newly assigned student would work less effectively, but with time spent on uninterrupted research of a single school his output would increase to nominal and more.

And then of course the classic 4x random events like "your researchers found a nether scroll, your alteration research was boosted" or "a drunk janitor set fire to your research records, 200 points of evocation research lost".

Come to think of it, the stealth units could have a bunch of diversionary actions like "sabotage research", "set fire to a temple" etc too...

thejeff

March 20th, 2010, 10:58 PM

A micromanagement nightmare.

Though events that boost research in a specific school would be cool. And general loss of research. Loss in a specific school would just be one more reason to not spread research out over multiple schools at ones. Or could you lose spells you'd already learned?

Peter Ebbesen

April 22nd, 2010, 05:23 AM

Wish is so expensive that you will go for the strongest option, adding a buch of commands that are sub-optimal would be kind of moot.
No.

There are already many suboptimal wishes possible, some suboptimal in most situtations but not all, some just really poor things to wish for. You might have a point regarding the latter (though they could be fun to use in SP even if they got no MP use) but most certainly not the former.

Examples of wishes that may occasionally be worth it but aren't in the game:
Immortality - adding the recuperation effect and being able to die in own dominion is the big one and utterly thematic to boot. The wish caster that is created solely as a wish machine might not want to cast this, ever, preferring to summon in an SC instead - the wish caster/battlefield mage/SC might, depending on circumstances.
Getting rid of horror marks - not worth the hefty price in the majority of cases but there are situations where it might be worth it.
Elemental immunity - gain 100 resistance to fire, water, cold, poison. Yes, this would probably be used almost solely in SP; so what? :)
Ritual Spell - attempts to duplicate the designated ritual spell as if the caster had his astral path strength in the relevant path but with no extra gems. (Yes, this is not worth it if you actually have the research and a mage with the proper path to cast the spell you wish to duplicate, if it goes through it creates a fairly weak global with minimal overcasting from paths only, and it also creates balancing issues with globals more costly than wish - but it is very thematic)

Burnsaber

April 22nd, 2010, 06:15 AM

There are already many suboptimal wishes possible, some suboptimal in most situtations but not all, some just really poor things to wish for. You might have a point regarding the latter (though they could be fun to use in SP even if they got no MP use) but most certainly not the former.

The thing is that these "new wishes" do not come as a gift from Santa or something. A coder will have to dive in to the ancient code that "wish" uses (it has been around since Dom:PPP, mind you) and add that new option. And coding time from Illwinter on Dom3 is a rare occurance nowdays, a very rare resource if you allow the simplification.

I just think that if JK really finds the time or intrest to do some coding on dom3*, it would *really* be wasted on adding some excessive wish option that almost no one would use. There are much much more crucial things that could be fixed. Just check the bug list for some of them.

Sure, if some "coding fairy" comes along and just happens to fart all the code needed to make a bug free "immortality" wish, yeah, we could add that. But I wouldn't waste precious dom3 "code time" on the matter.

It's sort of moot to discuss this though, we both know that there will likely be no big update pathces ahead, just tweaks and fixes.

korenje

May 1st, 2010, 12:21 PM

ok I have a serious wish.

The problem is with magic (dom3). Why can some über strong mage (fire 20 for example) cast some spells at the same level as some very weak mage. There should be a slider where you change strength of some spell and slider for quantity. So basically when you want to cast weak spell, the mage should cast more spells per turn until he runs out of action points.

All magic should be linked to mage strength - for example summoning. Strong mage should summon stronger monster or more monsters or have ability to summon more different stuff. (perhaps add some action points while in map mode).

Also in dominions 3 everything leans towards death at the end of the game. Assuming the game is played for infinite time, you should have ability to change capital, move population there etc. Perhaps something more strategic.

Also if some death nation can easily create some of their death monsters, there should also be a harder way for other nations to create the same monster by not using death magic. (perhaps magic levels should be limited for other nations).

Dom3: The capital should be holy grail for every race? in single player mode shouldn't opponents attack my capital with strong spells to halve population or something? At 6 opponents at impossible level that never happens. Should be fixed in dom4.

Rookierookie

May 1st, 2010, 02:37 PM

A lot of spells do scale with magic level.

Tonno

May 2nd, 2010, 05:13 AM

Omg guys u are killing me,I have read this 2 days and still I did not red it all...

I have seen a bunch of great ideas...
I would change only few things...
1)Change the battle graphics in 3d mode,some thing like the total war stuff (not to put the unite control mode,just do the graphics)
2)need to make all nations good in something,and bad in something as well
3)put some new spells and items...

I could write some few things,but I would be happy with this:D
I know that there is a lot of stuff to do,and that is not easy but, I really want to see dom4...

Swan

May 2nd, 2010, 06:59 AM

The problem is with magic (dom3). Why can some über strong mage (fire 20 for example) cast some spells at the same level as some very weak mage. There should be a slider where you change strength of some spell and slider for quantity. So basically when you want to cast weak spell, the mage should cast more spells per turn until he runs out of action points.
some spell already gain bonus when a higher level mage cast them, plus the fatigue is reduced FAT*(1/1+extra levels) which means more spells; but i like the quality vs quantity idea
What fire 20 means?
Dom3: The capital should be holy grail for every race? in single player mode shouldn't opponents attack my capital with strong spells to halve population or something? At 6 opponents at impossible level that never happens. Should be fixed in dom4.
The problem is that your opponent is an ai, which means it's more stupid than humans, all the choices this games give you increase this "ai sucks" feeling.
Don't forget that maybe your opponent can't cast those spells, play versus mictlan, they will use rain of toads.
Also in dominions 3 everything leans towards death at the end of the game. Assuming the game is played for infinite time, you should have ability to change capital, move population there etc. Perhaps something more strategic.
No point moving your capitol, it doesn't give any bonus.
Nice idea the population "migration", maybe it would mean micromanagent hell
Also if some death nation can easily create some of their death monsters, there should also be a harder way for other nations to create the same monster by not using death magic. (perhaps magic levels should be limited for other nations).
i don't understand what you are saying, can you repeat?

Omg guys u are killing me,I have read this 2 days and still I did not red it all...

I have seen a bunch of great ideas...
I would change only few things...
1)Change the battle graphics in 3d mode,some thing like the total war stuff (not to put the unite control mode,just do the graphics)
no, this would make modding more time consuming.
plus i like the retrogaming taste of it.
2)need to make all nations good in something,and bad in something as well
all nations, right now, have good/bad sides.
3)put some new spells and items...

yeah, i would like a
reverse darkness(bright sun that halves undead/demon attributes)
reverse light of the northen star
more holy spells
your god start as a 10 holy

13lackGu4rd

May 2nd, 2010, 09:04 AM

Solar Brilliance is sort of a "reverse darkness", well not exactly its reverse but pretty close... also would would be the point of reverse light of the northern star? -1 magic attributes for enemies instead of +1 for allies? cause well, magic debuffs are just not available at all, only way to lower magic is the mute infection, or death on non immortal pretender.

Swan

May 2nd, 2010, 10:54 AM

i was talking about a global permanent solar brilliance with the "reverse darkness".
And yes, i would like to have a -1 magic spell

Peter Ebbesen

May 2nd, 2010, 09:28 PM

The thing is that these "new wishes" do not come as a gift from Santa or something. A coder will have to dive in to the ancient code that "wish" uses (it has been around since Dom:PPP, mind you) and add that new option. And coding time from Illwinter on Dom3 is a rare occurance nowdays, a very rare resource if you allow the simplification.

I just think that if JK really finds the time or intrest to do some coding on dom3*, it would *really* be wasted on adding some excessive wish option that almost no one would use. There are much much more crucial things that could be fixed. Just check the bug list for some of them.

In case you somehow failed to notice it, Burnsaber, this is the wish-list for Dominions 4 (hint: it says so in the title) - a hypothetical game that quite possibly will never exist - not a wish list for changes to Dominions 3 to be added in minor content patches that would be better spent on fixing existing bugs.

Sure, if some "coding fairy" comes along and just happens to fart all the code needed to make a bug free "immortality" wish, yeah, we could add that. But I wouldn't waste precious dom3 "code time" on the matter.

Since neither of us are in control of the development budget or developer time, there is no way that any of us can waste precious dom3 coding time either way. On your general point that any developer time spent on Dom3 would be better spent on other things I do agree, but that is utterly irrelevant to this thread.

It's sort of moot to discuss this though, we both know that there will likely be no big update pathces ahead, just tweaks and fixes.
I refer you again to the bloody title of this thread. This is a thread for wishes for a future game in the series, not a thread for players second-guessing developers on what would be a good use of developer time in Dom3 patches.

vfb

May 2nd, 2010, 10:09 PM

Peter Ebbesen, I suggest you lighten up. People have been banned from these forums for being sombre, you know.

Bananadine

May 2nd, 2010, 10:24 PM

A small idea I just had: For the sake of diversity, some nations could have tendencies promoting or retarding the use of magic in particular paths. For instance, maybe nature mages go insane in R'lyeh, even if it's not LA R'lyeh, whereas other types of mages don't. Or maybe Arga Dis resents astral mages because they sometimes scry the Gilgans' true plans, so that nation automatically sends an assassin after a random astral mage on any turn when it has more than three such mages. Or maybe earth mages have halved upkeep in Agartha, while other mages have 50% extra upkeep. Just playing around here! Still, I think this is a fun idea, and if a highly developed and bug-free version of it doesn't appear in the next patch then I will be very angry.

Trumanator

May 3rd, 2010, 12:26 AM

I think that Dom4 should have a more Sombre mood.

Fantomen

May 3rd, 2010, 12:51 PM

And a warhammer expansion campaign

chrispedersen

May 3rd, 2010, 01:26 PM

Guys, *please* stop spamming this sombre business into every forum.

There are those of us who don't know sombre, and don't have an opinion on the matter, and would still like to communicate about dominions

Maerlande

May 3rd, 2010, 02:19 PM

My biggest wish is to have better micro management options in the GUI. For example 30 slots for commander scripts instead of 10. Ways to collect all slaves. Ways to pool gems without accidentally removing the critical 2 pearls on your void summoner. That kind of stuff.

ano

May 3rd, 2010, 02:40 PM

I may tell you that our common biggest wish (though not all realize it) is the completely reworked game engine. It is absolutely obvious that the terrific amount of bugs and lack of scalability are the results of the program being written by mainly one person, JK. Well, maybe very talented person, but it is a huge project and should be handled in another way. I don't speak of graphics here and I'm not a fan of graphics at all. Just about the numerous bugs that we here got so used to that we now don't even treat them as bugs. Their numbers are many. Should the project once be completely reworked (with proper architecture), all you, guys, request may become completely possible without much work. And now (I'm absolutely sure of that being a programmer myself) each change like this means a big amount of work, a big headache and may normally result in the bugs like the recent one with the Maggots spell (changing the description resulted in completely another spell effect or even the mix of effects). Also, when the only reliable source of information on the game mechanics is the code, it is a sign of poor architecture as well. And many, many other things.
But all this doesn't mean I don't like Dominions. This is the best and the deepest strategy multiplayer game I've ever seen, been here since Dom 1. It just requires more love from the developers to be superb. And that is my only wish for Dominions 4 if it ever happens to appear.

p.s. I don't know whether or not the old Dominions 1 engine is still used but I strongly suspect it is because most things look very similar

Eximius Sus

July 20th, 2010, 11:47 AM

Is there a Dominions 4 in the works?

GrudgeBringer

July 20th, 2010, 01:20 PM

NO, not that we know of.

Gandalf Parker

July 20th, 2010, 01:36 PM

Illwinter IS very involved in a new project.
We dont know if its a Dom4, we dont if its not.
Anyone who knows anything about it is tied up tight with NDA's (non-disclosure agreements).

But Dom3 has lived years on my machines as did Dom2 and Dom1. Heck I still sometimes play the game before ALL the doms (Conquest of Ellysium III, available as a free download). Whatever the new project is I am sure that I am looking forward to it. :target:

DrPraetorious

July 20th, 2010, 04:34 PM

Their new game is more of a Dominions meets Alpha Centauri meets La Blue Girl.

There will be a lot of customization of how your religion, your overall civilization, your military, and your supernaturally-motivated orgies interact. There will also be a lot more diplomacy; obviously, if your worshippers are in the same orgy they don't always try to kill each other.

Another thing like Alpha Centauri (or older versions of Dominions) there will be the ability to change the terrain, so you won't be able to use arbitrary images as custom maps. However, the dynamically generated landscapes will be visible in each sex dungeon, which will have a powerful, user-modable 3D engine so when you create a mod with new demons or schoolgirls you'll be able to supply fully realized models.

I'm not sure about the relationship between "Shrapnel Adult Interactive" and "Shrapnel Games" but I gather they're actually two different companies with purely historical overlap, so I'm not sure if the game will be called dominions 4 or not.

I hope that answers your question.

Illwinter IS very involved in a new project.
We dont know if its a Dom4, we dont if its not.
Anyone who knows anything about it is tied up tight with NDA's (non-disclosure agreements).

But Dom3 has lived years on my machines as did Dom2 and Dom1. Heck I still sometimes play the game before ALL the doms (Conquest of Ellysium III, available as a free download). Whatever the new project is I am sure that I am looking forward to it. :target:

Eximius Sus

July 20th, 2010, 04:45 PM

Are you being facetious?

Gandalf Parker

July 20th, 2010, 05:34 PM

I thought THAT version of Dom was waiting for Google to finish their holodeck project.

Eximius Sus

July 20th, 2010, 08:36 PM

If that's a real game this might not be the place for me.

Gandalf Parker

July 20th, 2010, 08:40 PM

Didnt you see the Dom3 ads on this site?
Dont you wonder how they can possibly kick it up a notch for Dom4?

Eximius Sus

July 20th, 2010, 10:41 PM

That's just implied sex. Sort of geeks can get laid too. Not!

Dectilon

July 21st, 2010, 07:49 PM

Gandalf Parker

July 21st, 2010, 08:25 PM

Isnt that engine Windows only?
Dominions is a Linux game. They would probably want to team up in a different direction.

Eximius Sus

July 21st, 2010, 09:12 PM

I've always thought how glorious it would be if Illwinter teamed up with Creative Assembly and made Dom4 in their new Total War-engine.

For a slightly more realistic wish I'd like a drag-and-drop system for items, and possibly spells too, improved graphics for the map so you can have visual representations of extreme cold/heat, magic sites present and the like. A robust diplomacy system could be interesting too. That way it'd be easier to keep track of NAP, and maybe some other interesting stuff could be included, like a trade agreement where both sides get a gold boost, or a small gem bonus of the type your trade partner has the most of (without actually cutting into his gem production).

I really dislike that idea. Dom3 is good because it doesn't try to be another 3d mess that uses up computer resources to do flashy 3d stuff and skimp on gameplay. I've only played one total war game and it didn't do a lot for me. But most every great game I played that got shifted to 3d was turned into crap. The prime example to me is HOMM5. A complete disaster and the destruction of a brilliant series.

DrPraetorious

July 21st, 2010, 09:36 PM

HOMM4 was a disaster, and it didn't use (extensive) 3D.

HOMM5 has the best balance and gameplay of the series, and those 3D graphics look frickin' fantastic, man!

I agree that it's a shame - and there is no principled reason - why the game can't be run in flat-sprite "mode". But HOMM5 is still a great game.

That said, I agree that more thoughtful, play-by-mail-type, high content/low footprint games are needed, and that these are clearly J+K's strengths.

Eximius Sus

July 21st, 2010, 11:22 PM

I couldn't even get past the first 5 missions in HOMM 5. All that fiddling around moving my view and trees blocking the terrain? I hated it. So the result was a change of basic art and style for the sake of flash destroyed the game for me. And the cut scenes were bloody awful.

I loved HOMM4. Very much my favourite although I know that's a very rare feeling. Probably why I liked HOMM4 so much was the brilliant maps made by folks like Sarvi. Still it's predecessors were all fine games without great flavour. Like Disciples 2 a game can be great without a pile of flash. HOMM 3 had that brilliant map Sander's Folly. Just loved that.

But your last sentence totally sums up my feelings on this matter. The big studios do a brilliant job of making beautiful games with crap content and zero replayability. Let the indies do what they do best. Produce games full of content and long life.

cwkjc

July 22nd, 2010, 08:04 AM

Dominions 4 wishes ...

- More Nations always more !!!
- A faith scale
- More Holy sites and unholy sites with specific effects
- Temporary magic mythic sites not stable in the world, appearing a few turns as an event when dominions conditions are met,
- A syncretism effect for a new nation, for example if you gain a province with a temple this temple still exist and is counted in your temples, or a nation don't loose morale in an enemy dominion
- More religious events for example one that convert a unit in a sacred unit and vice versa
- Nations with specific laboratories with bonuses/penalties or special locations where you can summon or forge national items
- Specific effects when you have a laboratory and a temple in a same province
- holy items

and and and...

RadicalTurnip

July 22nd, 2010, 09:30 AM

I've been thinking lately how it would be cool if, instead of certain nations getting units with a bonus (like a forge bonus is what I'm thinking here) if the capital just had a forge bonus as one of its sites. Then when you captured a capital, it would be more important. Maybe one would grant scrying, one would do forge bonus, one would do evocation bonus, one would let you enter to summon stuff, one would let you enter to cast something (like a free call of the wild) and things like that. Just a random idea.

nordlys

July 22nd, 2010, 09:35 AM

I've always thought how glorious it would be if Illwinter teamed up with Creative Assembly and made Dom4 in their new Total War-engine.

And who's going to shell out some $5 millions on modelling and animating two thousands of creatures, Illwinter or Creative Assembly? :re:

Gandalf Parker

July 22nd, 2010, 09:36 AM

Interesting ideas, cwkjc.
Some are already available in mods, and others can be. But its an interesting list to consider modding. :target:

ioticus

July 22nd, 2010, 12:05 PM

Didn't they already state that they were NOT working on Dom4?

Dectilon

July 22nd, 2010, 02:29 PM

Santa! This is the Wish-List, not the reasonable suggestions-list.

And

I've always thought how glorious it would be if Illwinter teamed up with Creative Assembly and made Dom4 in their new Total War-engine.

And who's going to shell out some $5 millions on modelling and animating two thousands of creatures, Illwinter or Creative Assembly? :re:

As for HOMM4 vs HOMM5 I prefer HOMM4 myself. I didn't like how long the turn-time became in HOMM5, and even with see-through terrain objects it was still hard to see what stuff was a lot of the time. Balance wasn't really a concern for me since I never played against anyone decent.

A graphical upgrade can be made without being cluttered or confusing, and a dom3-fight modeled in TW would probably look very similar to how it looks now.

And I personally think that commanding all the units, summons, mages etc on a real-time battlefield would be completely awesome. It'd be a completely different game, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be great.

Gandalf Parker

July 22nd, 2010, 04:29 PM

Such upgrades have killed some games in my opinion. It would trash all the mods, and most of the ability to mod. Im not sure the payoff would balance out.

And again, to even consider it, it would need to be Linux. Not Windows. To have a Windows company and WIn engine do it would probably mean that the whole game title would be sold off which would not end up being what we want then. IMHO

Dectilon

July 22nd, 2010, 06:09 PM

You're all so negative! Since when are wishes made of whining? Imagine the best-case scenario instead!

nordlys

July 22nd, 2010, 09:19 PM

My number one wish for all game developers is "don't break it". Almost universally, it goes unheeded.

Eximius Sus

July 23rd, 2010, 10:20 AM

My view of the best case is radically different than yours. One of the critical things that makes Dominions special is the inability to micro manage battles and rely only on preplanned battles with limited commander control. That's pure genius and any suggestion to replace that with direct control is a huge fail in my opinion. There are plenty of strategy games out there that let you shoot the bow of each unit independently exactly where you want them to shoot. Fun, but utterly unrealistic in real battle conditions.

So suggestions that turn Dominions into something like a Total War clone fail big with me.

thejeff

July 23rd, 2010, 11:06 AM

Direct control over battles would also drastically change MP. No more email turns, everyone would have to be simultaneously online to fight each battle.
Scheduling anything but duels and very small blitzes would be impossible.

Eximius Sus

July 23rd, 2010, 01:07 PM

Those things make sense. I hadn't fully thought through the implications for MP.

Dectilon

July 24th, 2010, 11:08 AM

I'm being too unclear I think. For dominions 4 I agree, I'd prefer it to stay turn-based but with a completely overhauled UI and improved graphics. But, I would also like a new game with similar complexity where battles happen in real time. People throw around "clone of..." too much. A game with all the spells, summons, global enchantments and monkeys of dominions would not play like a total war game at all, but like something no one has ever seen before. :)

Eximius Sus

July 24th, 2010, 11:24 AM

I believe I understood you were interested in a real time game. In general, I dislike real time strategy. There are a few exceptions. Real time strategy is not strategy.

A game using the Total War engine seems to me to clearly be another Total War clone. And it's not like they haven't made quite a few of them. Change the setting and you get another Total War game.

Taking the content of Dominions 3 and putting it into another form of strategy like real time does not interest me. The content is not why I think Dominions 3 is a great game. By content I mean the nations, history, and mythology.

Using the Dominions 3 type model of game play for other content such as science fiction greatly interests me.

There have been a few fantasy real time strategy games. There's that classic if I remember correctly. Oh yeah, Warcraft.

Gandalf Parker

July 24th, 2010, 11:42 AM

Thats kinda my take on it also. I dont mind people wishing for variations.

But something I will step into is if they feel Dom3 should be changed into some other type of game. Especially when they base it on something like "look how well xxxxxxx has done". If other games have done so well with it, then there are other games. We dont need to lose one of the few really good ones in a limited territory in order to gain alittle in an already busy one. Whether thats losing the turn-based method, or the pbem support, or being a linux game, or easy modding, or multiple OS support.

(But I do think it would be world shattering if they came out with it as an iPhone app)

Kadelake

July 24th, 2010, 12:19 PM

I don't think anyone wants dom4 to be a real time strategy game.

But don't be so quick to dismiss real time games. Does anyone remember the great game Warhammer: Dark Omen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer:_Dark_Omen)? :)
It came out two years before the first total war game and it already contained all the tactical aspects of Shogun. In my opinion Dark Omen did the "realistic battles" better and on a more suitable scale for real time. A dominion spin-off made with the Dark Omen engine is a game I would certainly buy :happy:

But Eximius Sus is right. What makes dominions such a great game is the game model. Still, it has many nicely made nations with a great a great feel to them and that certainly helps.

Dectilon

July 24th, 2010, 04:05 PM

But but... Having hundreds of units and spells, earth-shattering global magic and only a moderate interest in balance... I can't remember that being in any of the warcraft games. I'm talking about the feeling of starting a game and having no idea what you're going to face, even if you're up against the same nations as last game. :)

sector24

July 24th, 2010, 08:37 PM

Give up, Dectilon. This thread has changed from "wish list for Dom 3" to "how to give enthusiastic and creative people cancer through incessant negativity". Bravo all. :rolleyes:

Eximius Sus

July 24th, 2010, 09:13 PM

I don't dismiss real time strategy games. I just generally dislike them and I wouldn't be here if Dom3 was real time.

Yurasis_Dragon

April 19th, 2012, 12:44 PM

Vey Clear to me

1. iPad app, devastating to work productivity, but very cool

2. End destination feature. When the games and armies become large, it is difficult to track all that you wish. Rather than move, province by province, each turn it would be better to set a destination province and then have a scroll (or automatic unit by unit scroll) that just enables yo to confirm he destination.

3. A few more unit options on the battlefield, "hold until relieved", that sort of thing.

4. As undoubtably pointed out earlier, a bit prettier graphics (I realize that their are limitations to this based on file sizes and processing speeds).

5. A few more nations. Perhaps an integration of the best modded nations.

If others have mentioned these ... sorry for the duplicity.

One really wonders if, that after all these years, they are really interested in that. After all, they must consider a cost benefit analysis. Which expenditure of time yields the greatest $ return. Dominions probably isn't it. If I knew a bit more about the code I'd do it myself, especially, items 1 & 2.

Just 2 cents

Y