Boiling the Ocean (Started, needs alternate?)

[seej]

Hi!
I would like to run an Early Age, play by email, game with one turn running per 24 hours at first. Random nation assignment. 19 players with about 21 territories per player on a random map.

I am relatively new - I have played in 4 multiplayer games or so.

As you sign up, I will email you with the random nation you have been assigned. To sign up, please leave me a message on this thread.

Also a note, turns will generally run at midnight EST, earlier if all turns are in. I will send out the maps before you are expected to make your pretender.

If delays are needed in the game, thats arrangeable per my discretion. Some notice ahead of time is generally favored in terms of my discretion ;-)

19 players - No slots open

Players and Nations:

Seej Rlyeh
Tromper Marveni
Arghali Ermor
Nix Caelum
Sensori Vanheim
dead Arcoscephale
dead Ulm
Jazzepi Mictlan
AI Kailasa
dead Sauromatia
DrPraetorious Helheim
AI Oceania
dead Tien Chi
Digress C'tis
FrankTrollman Agartha
dead Pangaea
Wraithlord Abysia
dead Atlantis

There is a possibility that we will need an alternate player, if anyone would like to volunteer on standby, I would appreciate it. It is currently turn 8 in the game. To volunteer post to this forum or PM me through this forum.


- seej

[tromper]

I can fit another one in (as I'm eliminated from others hehehe) - I think you and I started playing roughly about the same time and stuff, and random nations is the bestest.

Let me know.

[Arghaii]

Hey there. My e-mail is lnikolaidis@gmail.com.

I'll wait to hear from you.

[Vathmoth]

I'm in. My email is Vathmoth@gmail.com

[Nix]

I'd like to join.

You can reach me at elevatormusic9 at hotmail.com

[Sensori]

Well, guess I'll have to start somewhere, and I'm itching to play some Dominions (even if it's 3 this time 'round) after so many years. So I'd like to join, and my email is: kerjanso@hotmail.com

[Juzza]

My first multi! I wanna play! I wanna play! juzzaman@hotmail.com is my email adress!

[Eddiewallie]

I'd like to join too!!! email is koningvandemambo@hotmail.com

[carlosib]

I'd like to join. First PBEM form me!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
My email is carlos_h_ibanez@hotmail.com
Thanks and good luck!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

I'd like to play Abysia.

Jazzepi@google.com

Jazzepi

[Uskglass]

I'm in.

coyoteocean@yahoo.co.uk

[Herbacious]

I'm in

herbaciousmeteor@hotmail.com

[DrPraetorious]

Sure, I'll give it a shot (I PMed you the e-mail out of pointless spam paranoia.)

[OgreMkV]

Count me in

klmhq at gt dot rr dot com

[Juzza]

Sensori Vanheim
Juzza Vanheim ?

[Sensori]

As much as I'm into cooperation, I think that's a bit too much. :-D

[Digress]

Could I join. Will PM you with my contact details.

[DrPraetorious]

May I suggest the following addendum to the .map file? It ensures a reasonable spacing of start positions.
I can also make the neighbours of these start sites site-rich and large, if you wish to use such a change.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
-perl -f BalancedWater.pl 4 3 &lt; "Boiling the Ocean.map"
#start 374
#start 22
#start 35
#start 165
#start 137
#start 88
#start 239
-- sea start
#start 205
#start 122
#start 245
#start 23
#start 57
#start 190
#start 98
#start 142
#start 252
#start 288
#start 53
#start 286
-- sea start
#start 304
#start 340
#start 369
#start 346
#start 334
#start 355
-- found 25 start sites.
-- 269 is isolated from 25 start positions.
</pre><hr />

[K]

I'd like to play,. kazthefirst@yahoo.com I'll also trade someone for their Lanka position.

[carlosib]

K i'm playing Lanka and would have no problem trading nations as long as the other players think it's fair (we would be breaking the "random nations" spirit of the game).

[AdmiralZhao]

I would love to take Lanka from you. Sweet, sweet Lanka...

[Herbacious]

I'd just like to state that DrPraetorious changes to the map seem good to me.

[Sensori]

Well, even though I guess you may think I'm sort of a buzzkill, I don't think it's fair. I don't play lots with EA Vanheim but I'm going to go with it anyway. If all the people were going to start switching to nations they're good with... It'd make the whole random spirit of the game meaningless, and turn it into a game where people have chosen their nashuns themselves.

Yes, I seriously doubt it'd end with just you guys switching.

Oh yeah, I noticed that at least normally the game won't let you have more than 9 starting provinces. Is there a way to get around it or are we going to use nine? Or do we start with 1 province as per usual and try to get our share of the 400 or so provinces? That's the "if" that will determine what kind of a Pretender at least I will use. The original post says, and I quote, "20 players with about 20 territories per player", so I'm a bit confused. :/

EDIT: And I second the post above. DrPraetorious's edits wouldn't hurt, would they?

[Nix]

I think 20 provinces per player just means there's a total amount of 20 x # of players provinces. You start off with one prov but basically have 20 to expand into before you need to seriously deal with your neighbors.

[AdmiralZhao]

From everything I've read, Vanheim is even more overpowered than Lanka. So, I would be willing to trade for them too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Carlosib, why do you want to trade away Lanka? They are a very strong nation.

[Sensori]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of until I started overanalyzing things (this is never a good thing) and basically reading between the lines when there was nothing there... And then I started nitpicking in my head that some people might not manage to get 20 because of excessively strong indies next to them and blah blah blah unless they were given 20 at the start, and then, in the end, I managed to totally confuse myself.

And I don't think any nashun is excessively overpowered or anything, all tend to have their ups and downs. Some are really strong at the beginning while others equal and surpass them in other parts of the game. And... Helheim is more overpowered than Vanheim, they have Valkyries in EA! Valkyries own your pants off.

[carlosib]

Ok, no nation trading then, lets keep it random. And I have nothing against Lanka, i've never played them so i'm yet to find their strong and weak points.

[AdmiralZhao]

Ok, sounds good. I played Lanka in my last game, and was kicking myself the entire time for not taking a nature or earth blessing. They have some great holy units.

[DrPraetorious]

Quick Lanka advice:
Lanka is definitely a sacred rush position, so go for the big bless. You get natural 3s in Air, Death, Nature and Blood - so avoid air, death and blood on your God. You really want a nature blessing, and you'd like fire, earth astral and water if you can arrange it. Take Heat-3. You prefer Heat-2, but with Heat-3 a lot of your provinces will still be heat-2 most of the time, and you need the points.

Here are some possibilities:
Imprisoned Great Mother, E9N9, Order 3, Sloth 2, Heat 3, Misfortune 2, Magic 1, Domstr 6. Lankans with this blessing eat basically anything that gets in their way, and earth magic is great when she finally wakes up.

Imprisoned Mother of Rivers, W9N4, Order 3, Sloth 1, Heat 3, Magic 3, Domstr 7. Powerful blessing and great scales.

Dormant Great Enchantress, F4A1W4E3S4D1N4, Order 3, Sloth 1, Heat 3, Magic 1. Blessing is surprisingly effective, and you can summon water mages to *cast* quickness on your stuff. Strong diversifying magic, rapid research, good income. Best choice if you care about the late game more than early expansion.

Hope that was helpful. Anyone else playing a position with which they are not familiar? I've never played EA Vanheim so I can't be much help there.

[seej]

Yes, I agree with keeping it random. No swaps.
Yes, I agree with the changes - do i just append that text into the map file?

[Nix]

DrPraetorious said:
Hope that was helpful. Anyone else playing a position with which they are not familiar? I've never played EA Vanheim so I can't be much help there.



I've only played a couple MP games, so I'm unfamiliar with most random nations I get. I've never played Caelum, and I'm glad I ran a couple test SPs before starting this game - otherwise I would never have realized how quick those birdies get knocked down, even by low-level indies.

I do have a question about Orb Lightning. I've had it used against me by some indie Air mages and it looked pretty potent, but it seems to behave somewhat differently when I cast it. The indies threw separate lightning bolts that hit my troops in different spots, but my mage just gets one single batch of bolts that all hit the same area (sometimes even the same unit). It's a bit underwhelming - especially considering those indie mages had something like A2 or A3 and I'm casting it with an A9 pretender.

[Sensori]

Oh yeah, since you're the maker of the PBEM, seej, just to make it 100% crystal clear for my hazed brain, this IS a 1 province start game, right?

Right?

[Herbacious]

Is it fair to ask what the settings will be? Like magic sites and indys and what not?

[Juzza]

May i suggest fairly low indies? I don't wanna spend most of the game hacking through indepents bit by bit to even reach other nations.

[WraithLord]

Are there still open slots for this one?- If so, would the game be hosted at a slower pace once it's past the starting phase?

If the answers are positive then I'd like to join please. thanks.

[DrPraetorious]

EA Caelum:
Don't bother with your sacred units. Use Mammoths for early expansion but other players know how to counter them (or should,) and they burn money. Don't bother with the temple guards.

You naturally get 4 Air, and 1s in death, earth and water. So you get death, earth and water income from sites but can't spend it - so you want a death/earth/water God. As before, you prefer cold 2 but take cold 3. You're also a research starved nation, so you want a magic scale and an awake God.

Try an awake great sage, F1W3E4S3D2M1. with 3 Order, 1 Productivity, 3 Cold, 2 Misfortune and 1 Magic. He makes good money and 24 science per turn - you'll be tossing wind guides and arrow fends in no time.

[Zolharm]

I'd like to play If you still have a place. saturn95@o2.pl

[Uskglass]

I could do with some Kailasa advice. Never played them, let alone MP before. Could be interesting...

[seej]

OK this game is now full. Take heart, we have collectively defeated Yomi through the combined might of our randomness.

To answer the Wraithlord's question, yes, the game will slow down once we get bloated by our conquests.

As for other folks' questions, I was planning on keeping the game settings standard except for allowing commander name changes.

If there is massive out cry against that, well ill see what i can be persuaded to do.


Finally, I am sending out the maps to those of you who dont have it. If everyone could get me their pretender soon - prefereably by tonight at midnight. If not, the official pretender due date is 34 hours from now.

Good luck to you and your invalid gods.

[DrPraetorious]

Uh, oops, I only placed two water positions. In order to fit 3 I have to crowd them slightly. Best I can do on a map that isn't wraparound.

Try this arrangement instead. You do NOT need to send out new copies of the map file - players only need the rbg image to play.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
#start 239
-- sea start
#start 286
-- sea start
#start 154
-- sea start
#start 374
#start 22
#start 97
#start 216
#start 207
#start 78
#start 121
#start 304
#start 36
#start 381
#start 400
#start 291
#start 224
#start 148
#start 134
#start 288
#start 42
</pre><hr />

[DrPraetorious]

Kailasa is an interesting position. Your magic is devastating but takes a bit to get going, and you have no research boosting items. Thus, you need a magic domain. You have sacred troops which are very powerful but also hard to use. Sacred archers don't benefit from a lot of the blessings, and sacred+naked=you lose.

I wouldn't recommend over-investing in a blessing for Kailasa, you're probably better off with scales and diversifying magic, or with a supercombatant God.

Consider a dormant destroyer of worlds with 4F4A3D, 3 Order, 3 Sloth, 3 Growth, 3 Heat and 3 Magic. By the time he wakes up he's a force to be reckoned with, and he fills out your magic paths.

If you're very very worried about early expansion, try an awake wyrm with 4A4D, Dominion Strength 10, 3 Order, 3 Sloth, 3 Heat, 2 Misfortune, 1 Magic.

If you really *must* make heavy use of your sacreds, take an imprisoned Oracle, 9W9S4N, Order 3, Sloth 3, Heat 3, Misfortune 2, Magic 1. The WS double-blessing has a synergistic effect with Awe, such that you are actually tough in spite of having no PV, and the regeneration allows you to shrug off an occasional arrow hit without being crippled (you have enough hit points that you seldom actually *die* to enemy archery.) Even so, don't expect to get very far with these guys against other players.

[Uskglass]

Great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks, Doc, I'll think on that.

[OgreMkV]

Hey Doc, any hints for Oceania... I've never played a water nation... weeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Juzza]

seej, how am I supposed to email you my pretender without your email address?

[DrPraetorious]

Oceania likes to fester, which is going to be hard with both of the other water nations in your cage match of death.

Your best bet is to convince either Atlantis or R'lyeh to ally with you against the other - probably Atlantis. Everyone hates R'lyeh.

The Knight of the Deeps is weaker than the Living Pillar, costs more, and can't go on land. Not a joyous situation to be in. Costs relatively few resources, though. OTOH, you're not going to care about land for a while (you're going to be too busy turning the oceans red), and you can recruit the Knight at all forts, so maybe a strong bless would let you survive.

Assuming you do live, you get water magic coming out of your *ears*, and 1s in nature and the other elements. So you'd kinda like a nature/fire/earth/air god.

As a water position, you don't care much about temperature, so take 3 levels of it, whichever you feel like.

You could go the SC route: an awake Kraken with 4F4E4N, Order 3, Sloth 1, Cold or Heat 3, Misfortune 2, Magic 1, Domstr 6. Get enchantment: 2 and alteration: 2 quickly, and your God can hold off essentially any force, at least inside your dominion - he casts personal regeneration and stoneskin and then eats everyone.

You could go the strong bless route: Imprisoned Lord of the Waves with 9W9E, Order 3, Sloth 3, Cold or Heat 3, Misfortune 2, Magic 1, Domstr 8.

Good luck.

[AdmiralZhao]

So, score graphs are going to be on?

[Sensori]

I sent a second Pretender now, seej. Sorry about this, but I was convinced that my old ways (from Dominions 1) aren't exactly the best in this game anymore. ;p

[seej]

I have sent you the maps from my email address. If you have not received those maps, please let me know.

[seej]

Yes, I was planning on leaving graphs turned on.

[Juzza]

I haven't gotten a map, my email again is juzzaman1991@hotmail.com oops, think I left off the 1991 on my first post

[Juzza]

yep, got the two map files, and sent my pretender to you.

[Sensori]

How many people have sent their Pretenders in now that the 34 hour time has gone past? I hope everyone, cuz at least I'm itching to see what kind of a place I'm gonna start from!

[seej]

Niefelheim - Vathmoth didn't get me a pretender by this morning, so I ran without him. The remaining 19 of us should now have our turns in our email inboxes. I have already sent the maps out and the game name (the directory name) is: Boil_the_Ocean

If there any problems, email me please.

Deadline is 24 hours from now - 9:30AM EST

[Juzza]

Woo first multiplayer started!

[Sensori]

First turn sent in! As a side note, I can't believe I'm this excited by the whole thing. :O

[Uskglass]

My game can't seem to find the .rgb file, despite it being in the /maps folder. What am I doing wrong?

[seej]

Try putting it in the actual game directory folder?

[seej]

Another player had a problem with the map, he said:

By the way, I had to rename Boilingtheocean.rgb to Boiling the ocean.rgb not
sure if anyone else had this problem

[Herbacious]

Uskglass, the map is looking for Boiling the Ocean.rgb

rename boilingtheocean.rgb to boiling the ocean.rgb (add spaces) worked for me.

[Uskglass]

Killing the underscores did it. Thanks.

[Juzza]

This is gonna be interesting, the only way to get to and from that top right island is a flier or sailor with 4 map move or actually crossing through the water, which will be hard for the land nations with three nations down there.

[Nix]

I don't believe flyers can cross sea zones - can they?

[Sensori]

They can't. And even sailing units can't cross multiple water provinces, it'd have to be one big province for them to cross it. So if some poor bastard started from the corner, he'll be fighting the water nations for the most part, but on the other hand he'll be very safe from attacks by proper ground forces...

Unless more than 1 guy started from the corner. Now THAT'd be bad for them, considering that it'd give us more provinces (good for us) while they're fighting over a rather nominal number of provinces (bad for them).

[seej]

Turn 2 has been sent out. Deadline in 24hours, 1PM EST. Any problems please email me!


Thanks.

[Sensori]

Uh. I was looking at the Hall of Fame. It's turn 2, and according to it Arcoscephale somehow has 8 commanders, most of which don't even fit Arco's naming scheme. Um, what the fuxor?

[Jazzepi]

Maybe they're mercenaries?

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Can't be, if you look at the mercenaries page. Only Ermor has a mercenary group currently.

But does the Hall of Fame show Arco having 8 commanders to everyone else? Or is what I think (the game's bugging for me a bit) happening?

[Nix]

Nope, I see it too. Arco's got a mighty tall army size in the score graphs too.

[Sensori]

Now that you mentioned it, yeah. It was twice as high on turn 1 as the next best guy. Ermor got close thanks to the mercenary group of 20 + 1 commander... Hmm. Actually, it's possible he got the flagellant (or the militia) event on first turn which would've effectively doubled the amount of people he had, so that is explainable. If it was excessively over being double the second guy, it'd be suspicious.

The only unexplainable thing in my view is the 8 commanders in Hall of Fame. I'm really hoping it's a bug (which it probably is), and different people's commanders are being shown there as Arcoscephale's. Although Tien Chi's god shows as Tien Chi's hero, and none of the names that show up on the Hall of Fame were in the list of new prophets...

Seriously, this is weird.

EDIT: I was just told on IRC that the game does bug sometimes on this point and gives Arco credit for commanders he really doesn't have, so it apparently was what I really hoped it was. A bug. That's good. Although, after thinking about it, the thing with his army size can't be about an event. Events don't happen on turn 1. Could it be a bug related to the Hall of Fame bug? Since otherwise he started with like 20-30 troops more that shouldn't have been there, and that doesn't sound very feasible.

Yet Another Edit: I think the Army Size graph is screwed up. Caelum gets 15 + 15 and is halfway to Arco's troop amount, but somehow Mictlan who starts with 15 + 20 is actually even below Caelum. I think it shouldn't be trusted for now, just like we shouldn't trust the Hall of Fame for now, from the looks of it.

Unless somehow Caelum and Arco are x1111111771ng out of the roof, which I'm sort of doubting. ;p

[Juzza]

Um, I'm arco! and I can't do my next turn for some reason, I put it in the directory, still thinks it's turn one.

[Juzza]

Nevermind about that I got my turn working! and I figured out what all those heroes are too, most of them, except one which is one of my heroes, are well, well their pretender gods, untouched, no bonuses to magic, their just liches, mother of serpents, other stuff too, I don't have any of them, they must have appeared there because two out of what, 19! people attacked independence in the first turn and gained a province, while when your facing AIs they always attack of the first turn and such making lots of low level, independent heros and some of their own heroes.

Just ignore them, they'll go away as soon as we get some real heroes out there!

[seej]

Turn 3 is sent out, deadline at around 9PM EST

Email me if there are any problems.

[seej]

Turn 4 is sent out, deadline around 6PM EST tomorrow.

[seej]

Turn 5 is sent out. Deadline around 7PM EST tomorrow.

[Juzza]

Ooo I found me a nation to eat yum, yum, nations.

[Kristoffer O]

I recently tried a game with the new nation Eriu, and arcoscephale got a couple of heroes early on. Funnily enough arco wasn't even in the game. I'm not sure but I started the game with the same name as an earlier game, so it might be that it wasn't properly cleared between games. I'll notify JK.

[seej]

Turn 6 has been sent out. Deadline around 6:30 EST tomorrow.

[Juzza]

My prey tastes like money...

[seej]

Turn 7 has been sent out.

[Juzza]

Hey, um, I got Ulms turn, I deleated it, but I'm arco, so if ulm might not have their turn yet.

ps: I did get my turn, forgot to mention that.

[DrPraetorious]

Are we planning to patch?

[seej]

sure im running the turn in one hour (one person is late and is receiving a grace hour and fifteen minutes!) , then we all patch.

cj

[Sensori]

So uh, you're running this turn with the old version, right? So we need to patch before the turn tomorrow at latest, am I right? Or do we patch before we send back the turn you're going to be makin' in an hour?

[seej]

that is correct, when i run the turn in the next 20 minutes, it will be run with version 3.06. When I run the next turn in 24 hours and 20 minutes, it will be run with version 3.08.

cj

[seej]

Server has been patched to 3.08, turn 8 has been sent out. It is due tomorrow by 7:30 PM - 23 hours from now.

[seej]

turn 9 has been sent out, turns due in 23 hours. Also, we may be needing an alternate for a position...

[seej]

Turn 10 has been sent out, it is due by 10PM EST tomorrow (about 22 hours, 45 minutes from now)

Also if anyone can find an alternate, it would be appreciated.

[seej]

turn 11 has been sent out, it is due in 24 hour hours, midnight EST.

Also, Sauromatia has been made AI for multiple no-turns-received and lack of replacement...

[Nix]

Well, it looks like I am discomfited. However I'll never admit to a lack of planning, only to a series of unfortunate events.

And holy [censored] are Lanka's sacred troops tough as nails.

[seej]

I hear ya.

[seej]

Turn 12 has been sent out, turns due in 24 hours at 10:15 PM EST tomorrow.

[seej]

Turn 13 has been sent out and is due in 24 hours, 11PM EST tomorrow.

[seej]

There is a new player for Tien Chi, who has dropped.

[seej]

Turn 14 has been sent out, Tien Chi has dropped and been replaced by johnarryn


Turn due 10PM EST tomorrow.

[seej]

Turn 15 has been posted. Turn due in 24.5 hours, midnight EST

[seej]

Turn 16 has been sent out, due in 24 hours at 11AM EST tomorrow.

[Sensori]

Hmm, I haven't gotten my turn. What gives? :/

[seej]

My bad - deadline extended to noon tomorrow.

cj

[seej]

Turn 17 has been posted, deadline is tomorrow night at 10Pm EST

[DrPraetorious]

T'ien Ch'i must be stopped.

He has sued me for peace - and under other circumstances I'd accept, but he's just too large.

We can either stand togther against him or die separately.

[johnarryn]

Tien Chi has already had to defend itself against three attackers at the same time... having come to this game late, I do not know who started the wars with Pangaea and Agartha, but I do know Helheim attacked me capriciously and without warning.

Yes, I am powerful.... but so are Rlyeh, Abysia and others. Tien Chi has not acted aggressively (at least under its new management) but instead acted to defend itself... and this has naturally led to our expansion. We will continue to defend ourselves against all attackers...

I would also take Helheim's words with a grain of salt, as he has offered to jointly attack a mutual neighbor of ours as part of a considered agreement... Helheim has its own designs and power.

[tromper]

Riiiiight, the fact that T'ien Ch'i leads in at least three, if not four, of the score charts - and the important ones at that, doesn't mean anything at all, eh, buddy?

Poor guy. Leave him alone. Make NAPs now! He has to finish eating up Pangea and who knows what else. *smirk*

Turn it into yet another boring game.

[johnarryn]

Well, what do you expect me to say? "You're right, im big, everyone should kill me?" =)

As I said: Yes, im strong. So are other people. I did, in fact, offer both Pangaea and Helheim treaties, but they have continue their aggression... so I don't really have much choice about fighting them and expanding.

I do understand the need to attack the person who seems to be winning. My neighbors will do what they will do.

[Nix]

johnarryn said:
Ah, well. This is why I hate playing with score graphs on, it becomes a game of "gang-bang the leader."



As a newb and someone who's consistently made bad tactical decisions since the start of the game (despite IMO otherwise solid play) I don't want to criticize your diplomatic acumen, but dealing with variables like that is part of the fun in any multiplayer strategy game. Imagine if central Europe were covered in a magical fog prior to World War II - how would have France and Britain known to declare war on rapidly-expanding Germany?

One *can* consciously make the decision to forego rapid expansion - although I understand you just jumped into the game.

[johnarryn]

I agree with you Nix... I actually deleted the comment you quote before you finished writing your post =) I know being careful about expansion is part of the game, I guess im just venting my frustration about jumping into a game where im getting attacked by everybody =)

No worries, though... im still having fun, which is the point.

[johnarryn]

I actually have had several discussions about the "in-game" justification for graphs... to me they seem silly, in the sense that a bunch of medieval-esque fantasy nations would not have exact and up-to-the-minute data on all the other nations in the world... information would circulate slowly and would take a long time to travel, unless a nation was actively spying or had an established information network... even then, it wouldnt be exact. Id be interested in seeing an option to have score graphs that are much more ambiguous... i think it would add some more intrigue to the game.

[tromper]

Wow, that's a great idea, johnarryn... some sort of spy network that applies a percentage to the accuracy of graphs or something. Could even be implemented on a nation basis, thus easy to slap into the code. But potentially hugely unbalancing. Hey, even another thing to spend pretender points on. *head explosion* Another thing for the devs to perhaps look into. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm ambivalent about graphs in games - actually prefer them off. But when they're on, you gotta use 'em. Which, unfortunately, makes it tough for those who are clearly winning.

[seej]

As for the score graphs thing, I prefer graphs to no graphs because I find graphs on more "realistic" and thematically appropriate than graphs off. Those spy networks aren't *really* minute by minute up to date, they are sort of one month behind...

Also, high-speed communication isn't so unrealistic in a fantasy world where resources like gold, magic gems, and magic items are effortlessly teleported across the world.

All in all, I think the options on graphs could be more expansive - something in between what we have now and nothing would be a nice option to have.

[seej]

Turn 18 has been posted, due tomorrow night at midnight. EST

[Jazzepi]

I haven't gotten it in my e-mail yet.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 19 has been posted, is due in 23.5 hours - 9:30 EST tomorrow.

[seej]

Turn 20 has been posted, it is due in 24 hours - 11:30 PM EST tomorrow

[Jazzepi]

I don't see it in my inbox =\ I'll check in the morning, if it's not there, I'd like a 24 hour extension so we can figure out what's going on.

Jazzepi

[Zolharm]

Oceania and R’leth strike on me, maybe someone can help me and strike on their back. Water and this two island it is almost 80 province.
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledqr3.jpg

[DrPraetorious]

As long as Oceania and R'lyeh leave Pangaea alone (and anyone else who is at war with T'ien Ch'i), great.

In other news, I'm sieging T'ien Ch'i capital and slowly tearing the walls down. I've suffered rather nasty losses - but not near as bad as his (I got like eight adepts of the iron order and several hundred troops over the last few turns.)

Anyway, he must be stopped - so everyone jump on him.

[Jazzepi]

Okay, seems like the problem was that I was using google and it wasn't taking the e-mails.

Might be the .trn file extension.

Jazzepi

[johnarryn]

Yeah, yeah... Tien Chi must be stopped. Sigh.

If anyone wants to attack Helheim, now would be an opportune moment. Most of his troops are piling on me, and he seems to have stopped researching, needing his Svartalfs to battle me.

[seej]

Turn 21 has been sent, turns due at 1030 PM EST tomorrow

[Sensori]

That making of the server is a pretty solid idea, although regular PBEM was nice, too. Now I can do my turns the way I usually do them, which is... In parts. ;p And now I can check and recheck my stuff, which is something you can't do in PBEM without constantly resending the turn (not such a hot idea), and I like having that option.

[Juzza]

I couldn't connect to the server.. is it you or me?

[Sensori]

I tried again too a few hours ago and apparently it was down. :/ Well, Seej did say that it might be a bit unstable, so I guess both e-mail and TCP/IP are to be used now.

[seej]

Turn 23 has been sent out, server is up. It comes up and down intermittantly but it is definitely reachable sometimes :-)

[Sensori]

Yeah. It conveniently came up when I was thinking about sending my turn, thus giving me the chance to be the lazy bastard I am and... Not send it through e-mail. :-D

[johnarryn]

Haha! Now a fourth person has attacked me. My master plan of getting gang-banged by everyone on the map is working perfectly.

[Sensori]

That is one odd plan, one must say. :O

[seej]

turn 24 has been posted, is due at 630 pm tomorrow est

[AdmiralZhao]

Ouch. Sorry about giving you such a cruddy position Mr. Arryn.

[Sensori]

Heh, the problem is that the position he has/had was absolutely great. The original player spread *way* too fast for his own good. Now what's happening is the fallout of said quick expansion. It's a bummer a substitute player has to see it through instead of the person who actually made the sort-of-mistake of becoming too large too fast.

[johnarryn]

I don't know if being too large too fast was the problem.... I think it was not having more diplomatic agreements in place. Generally before I attack someone I like to make sure that either a) All my neighbors except the one I want to attack have a treaty with me or b) my neighbor is diplomatically isolated in that all his neighbors want to kill him.

Unfortunately i seem to be on the receiving end of option B =(

I actually am not sure who started the wars in in with Agartha and Pangaea... I know Helheim and Marverni attacked me without warning, but thats not terribly surprising. C'est la vie.. i'm still having a good time, and fighting some pretty amusing battles.

[seej]

If things turn further south for you, I will work with Oceania to ensure that province 360 is set aside as a cultural preserve for the sophisticated people of Tien Chi. There will be an interactive, animatronic model of Zhao and peppy tour guides to instruct school children in sensitivity to Chiens (is that what you all are called?).

[johnarryn]

Excellent. What more could any god ask for?

[seej]

Turn 25 has been posted, due tomorrow at 11:30PM EST

[seej]

Turn 26 has been posted, due tomorrow at 8:30 PM EST unless we decide by consensus we want to extend the deadline to 48 hours or so.


What do you all think?

cj

[tromper]

OOC of course, and great hosting seej - regarding the general deadline question, I would be okay with extending it to 48 hours, but only if everyone else is. If a single person isn't, I think we should stick with the day turnaround except for prior notification which is perfectly acceptable. Sometimes grandmothers die for a third time or I have to sell my house. Happens.

Plus, my bare chested warriors disco dance while eating arrows and pooping monkeys wearing plaid, but don't tell anybody. Just be glad that Abba was remembered when they all croak.

[johnarryn]

I would heartily endorse a 48 hour deadline... getting eaten alive from all sides is time-consuming.

[Jazzepi]

I would prefer we stay on the 24 hour deadline.

Jazzepi

[Eddiewallie]

Don't mind the 48h. great hosting so far, keep it up!

[Juzza]

I vote for keeping it at 24 hours.

[Juzza]

you know what forget about my vote, I forfeit I know when I'm beat

[WraithLord]

I vote for 48h.

And yes, great hosting so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nix]

I'd keep 24h as I have a smaller nation, but I suppose all the massive empires need time to get their bureaucratic gearwork going.

[Sensori]

So like, how long are we waiting for Ermor to do his turn or did we already, before finishing the vote about the 48h change, change to the 48 hour deal? Yes, this lack of turns coming in in all games I'm playing in is making me go crraazy!

And I'd keep the 24h, but that's because I have no life and I must scream. ;p

[seej]

OK we will stick to 24 hours for now. As for Ermor... I guess I will grace him until 48h because of the ambiguity of the fact that its under discussion. But this next turn is back to 24hours.

cj

[seej]

turn 27 posted, due tomorrow at 11:15 Pm (just over 23 hours from now)

[WraithLord]

seej said:
OK we will stick to 24 hours for now. As for Ermor... I guess I will grace him until 48h because of the ambiguity of the fact that its under discussion. But this next turn is back to 24hours.

cj



24 hours is tough pace for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I hope we will be able to switch to 48 hours sometime soon as its becoming increasingly more difficult for me to handle. Turn 35 or 40 for example will be good time to switch, so I hear by petition for that.

[seej]

Turn 28 posted, due tomorrow at midnight.

[Jazzepi]

The great nation of Mictlan desires cauldrons of broth. We will pay 18 nature gems per cauldron.

We will also accept wine skins at 6 nature gems apeice.

Please contact us quickly if you wish to forge these items for us, our armies need sustenance.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 29 has been posted, due tomorrow at midnight EST

[seej]

Turn 30 was sent out 8 hours ago and is due in 15.5 hours at midnight EST

[seej]

turn 31 was posted last night, due in 15.5 hours (midnight est)

[seej]

Turn 32 was sent out this morning, its due in 14 hours or so.

cj

[seej]

Turn 33 was sent out this morning, its due in 19 hours or so.

Also, I have been asked once again to extend the deadline to 48 hours. Starting with when turn 35 is sent out I am going to go ahead and make the call that we are switching to 48 hour deadlines.

[seej]

Turn 34 has been posted earlier, its due in 28 hours.

cj

[Nix]

Indeed it has come to pass that, as was predicted by the far-seeing Eagle Kings, Abysia has broken its pact with Caelum and now prepares to wrap its charred claws around the highest peaks of this world. The prophets of al-Lat therefore entreat the gods to gather in a pantheic alliance and support the foremost bulwark against the armies of Abysia, for once Caelum falls, the Abysians will have gathered power far beyond whatever T'ien Ch'i has ever held.

To those who believe they could hold off the Abysians on their own, we warn of their collusion with the treacherous snakes of C'tis, who continually encroach on Caelian lands and doubtless prepare an unholy partition. Once Abysia and C'tis share and ravage Caelian homelands, they will be free to perpetrate new crimes on the nations of the midlands, like Ermor and Agartha. Do not be reassured by their claims of peaceful intentions - the only counterbalance to power is overwhelming power! To war against Abysia, and let the C'tissian snakes be warned to remain where they stay: in their snake pits!

[DrPraetorious]

The vile star spawn of R'lyeh - traitorous vermin of the depths - have crassly assaulted our glorious lands.

We cannot deny that we are much weakened by our struggles with the Empire of T'ien Ch'i.

But they arrive too late! Knife Bright Insight, true Lord of the Waters, has returned to us! He will scatter them like dust - all that they have striven for, they have sought in vain.

[seej]

Long centuries have the nobles of Helheim called wise kings weak who would guard the Mouth of Hel. Restless and with greedy eyes they have left their post and let unfortunate products of necrotic incest escape the depths. Helheimers, as you could not keep safe the stewardship appointed to you, we shall do it for you. We have imprisoned you, Knife Bright Insight, in Helheim. Ugly pretender, springing malformed from a cesspool, you think yourself a Lord of Waters? As surely as the stars descend to ocean depths, we shall drive you back down the Mouth of Hel and send down after you a sword to spoil whatever dam gave you issue.

[Digress]

The noble and ancient nation of C'tis has only moved to absorb the remaining territory of Arcoscephale that prostrated itself before us after we defeated her armies in battle after battle in the swamps between our capitols. Even now we prepare to strike down their foolish pretender who has choosen now to defend her domain after all is lost.

We note that Caelum was quick to grab a few crumbs, like the brazen flying rats you are, after we broke Arcoscephale's heavy infantry leaving but a tissue to defend her lands.

Our armies have not ventured into the windswept, frozen wastelands you creatures, begat by the foulest vultures and lowliest crows, would call your domain. You even offered these lands to us once Abysia made it intentions clear and now you make wild accusations of collusion between our nation and Abysia.

We C'tissians find the depths of winter only allows one to think only in a stew of treachery and paranoia. With the rising sun and its warmth is one able to cogitate on grander things. We cannot comprehend the motivations of those who embrace Caelum's austere code of "honour",

[DrPraetorious]

Um, could you redo the hosting with the revised turn Frank sent you? You said you'd use that one instead, but you didn't :O

[seej]

Turn 35 has been posted, its due in 46.5 hours.

[seej]

Turn 36 has been posted, its due in 46.5 hours

[seej]

Turn 37 has been sent out, due in 48 hours.

[seej]

Turn 38 has been posted, due in 48 hours.

[Jazzepi]

Mictlan is in the market for dwarven hammers. Send a pm if you'd like to trade them.

Jazzepi

[WraithLord]

So are we waiting for something?- There wasn't a new turn yet, right?

[Sensori]

I got the "you have 10 hours to do your turns" notice like 15 hours ago, so I have no idea. ;p

EDIT: And yes, I did send in my turn when I got it!

[WraithLord]

Is it turn 38?- If so I also have already sent it.

[Nix]

I asked seej to wait for me as I was out of town this weekend, but I'm back and sent my turn in some time last night.

[seej]

Turn 39 has been posted. the delay was due to multiple players being late with their turns.

turn due in 48 hours.

cj

[Jazzepi]

Mictlan is still looking for Dwarven hammers. We're willing to pay 20 earth gems for them.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 40 has been posted, is due in 48 hours.
CJ

[seej]

Turn 41 has been posted, due in 54 hours.

[Nix]

I would like to remind the audience that letting a nearby large empire swallow a neighbor, with no gain to you, is poor strategic planning. Taking advantage of that empire's war effort to seize defenseless land is, on the other hand, a smart strategy (and would also please me immensely).

I would also like to notify the audience that I am treading water and boy are my arms tired. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[seej]

Also, turn 42 has been posted, and is due in 46 hours. I am back home and will try to keep the server running.

[Sensori]

Uh, has your IP changed, or is the server just down right now?

[seej]

Turn 43 has been posted and is due in 47 hours. I am having problems getting the server working so it isnt up.

cj

[seej]

Turn 44 has been posted and is due in 47 hours.

[seej]

Turn 45 has been posted and is due in 52 hours

[Nix]

Uhh seej, isn't it too early for turn 46?

[seej]

Turn 46 has been posted and is due in 27 hours.

[seej]

Turn 47 has been posted and is due in 46 hours.

cj

[seej]

Turn 48 has been posted and is due in 46 hours.

[Jazzepi]

Mictlan wishes to trade gems. We need earth gems if you have any. We have many, many fire gems for trade.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 49 has been posted, is due in 47 hours.
cj

[WraithLord]

Holly molly, R'lyeh has cast AN!http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Have no doubt it gentelman, this is a serious step toward winning, if all the rest of us fail to take immediate action now, the game is lost. I say to you, stop your petty skirmishes and gather up to face the insane threat from depths!

Abysia

[seej]

We are a race of peace I tell you!

[Jazzepi]

Can we put together a collection pool for mass dispel? The nation of Mictlan can offer 50 astral gems. WE can not cast it, however.

Jazzepi

[WraithLord]

This is a great suggestion.

We can cast dispel and have strong astral mages so we offer their services for that purpose.
We can also give 100 astral for the cause.
Nations of the world, please join the effort to stop R'lyeh from overflowing with hundreds of astral gems every turn, donate astrals for this sacred task.

Abysia

[DrPraetorious]

I'll send all astral pearls I have to Abyssia this turn.

Any possibility that you might put up Astral Corruption, WL?

[WraithLord]

DrPraetorious said:
I'll send all astral pearls I have to Abyssia this turn.

Any possibility that you might put up Astral Corruption, WL?


Yeap, that thought had crossed my mind, but I wouldn't want to "punish" everyone because of R'lyeh. How about if we keep AC as the last resort in case dispel fails?

[WraithLord]

damn, I spoke to soon, It seems I'm one turn away from casting dispel, meaning I won't be able to cast it next turn but only the turn after http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

If there is any other candidate that can dispel next turn, I'll gladly send him my astrals, otherwise I will cast the dispel the turn after the next one. In the meantime I would suggest to withhold from casting/forging non astral/blood thingis.

[seej]

I could cast it...

[Jazzepi]

WraithLord said:

DrPraetorious said:
I'll send all astral pearls I have to Abyssia this turn.

Any possibility that you might put up Astral Corruption, WL?


Yeap, that thought had crossed my mind, but I wouldn't want to "punish" everyone because of R'lyeh. How about if we keep AC as the last resort in case dispel fails?



Astral corruption is useless against casters with any amount of astral magic. IE, all of Ry'leh's guys.

Jazzepi

[WraithLord]

Jazzepi, can you please explain why you think astral corruption isn't good against astral mages. Its supposed to punish esp. astral mages.

[WraithLord]

very well then, since there are no further volunteers to dispel R'lyeh AN I will do so. I ask of all the nations that don't want the game to be over at this point to send me astral gems to make the dipel stronger. I also reiterate my suggestion that you refrain from forging/casting non S/B things.

Know that by doing this service to all, I have put my self in the front of R'lyhe's wrath. Have no doubt about it, he'll do whatever he possibly can to punish me and prevent me from dispelling his AN. Keep that in mind in case he approaches you with lies and deceit.

[lch]

WraithLord said:
Jazzepi, can you please explain why you think astral corruption isn't good against astral mages. Its supposed to punish esp. astral mages.


They can escape the Horror attacks by being scripted to cast Returning at the start of battle, or something.

[Jazzepi]

Yup. It's a special battle.

I'm not sure if it works in the home province, but it's a minor problem to move your mages one step over whenever you want them to forge an uber item or cast a global.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 50 has been posted and is due in 48 hours
cj

[WraithLord]

Jazzepi said:
Yup. It's a special battle.

I'm not sure if it works in the home province, but it's a minor problem to move your mages one step over whenever you want them to forge an uber item or cast a global.

Jazzepi



I C, 10x 4 the tip.

[Jazzepi]

Sent gems this turn. I hope everyone contributes.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 51 has been posted, is due in 48 hours.

cj

[tromper]

Huh, so the battle replay of me finally storming Kailasia's last province - the capitol - shows me as rather easily beating them down and they routed (which was pretty much the obvious outcome). But the battle report shows me as having lost half my force and Kailasia holding the fortress.

Go figure, eh?

(Had to go back and look - but I believe it was Jazzepi who had this occur also, in the Ragnarok game. Both times involved storming the fortress containing the defending nation's pretender and their last province I think. I didn't save the Ragnarok turns so am not sure if that was my last. I thought it was a bug then and I think it's a bug now, contrary to what Edi seems to think) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

Yes, I was angry &gt;:|

I think I might have saved the ragnarok game. I'm not sure.

Jazzepi

[seej]

Turn 53 has been posted and is due in 48 hours.

[Jazzepi]

So where is this dispel, Wraith Lord? Arcane Nexus has been up for far too long.

Jazzepi

[WraithLord]

Jazzepi said:
So where is this dispel, Wraith Lord? Arcane Nexus has been up for far too long.

Jazzepi



Haven't I put you on the mail list WRT the dispel?- My bad I guess. Anyway, I'm sorry to tell that dispel has failed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
The simple fact is that R'lyeh has a huge advantage both in the AN and in its topographical location. I urge all the free nations to work together and rid the world of the maddened plague that is R'lyeh.

[tromper]

R'lyeh won quite a few turns ago, goofhead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Digress]

Yes - us C'tissians are preparing to head down to the beach to wave at our new overlords as they prepare to drag themselves from under the waves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

As spells go Arcane Nexus is a bit of a game breaker.

[WraithLord]

You are wrong!

And hiding behind R'lyeh skirts won't save you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Arcane Nexus is a powerful spell, but hardly a "game breaker" for a land nation - or for a water nation that hasn't already conquered the water.

The issue here is that R'lyeh has already entirely conquered and consumed two other opponents, *and* is in the water, *and*

Serious opposition requires a player with a forge bonus site and the Forge. This player has to crank out underwater items, MR items and communion items (slave/master matricies) as fast as possible. Then, you go under water with an entire communion tricked out with anti-magic amulets and lead shields, heading up (lightning immune!) supercombatants and spamming shimmering fields as well as your own whole-battlefield astral spells (such as Arcane Domination.)

The issue is the *management*. Such a counterattack is entirely possible but is anyone really going to put it together? It's enough of a pain to do that on land.

[Nix]

Well I had a blast, but as the Abyssians are finally beating down the walls of Caelum, it seems I won't be able to survive and greet my new overlords from R'lyeh. At any rate, I come out suitably amazed by the Mammoths' ability to crush any kind of melee opposition. I consider that I made two mistakes: 1. didn't establish enough diplomatic relations, so that that option was closed when came time to fight Abysia; and 2. should have made the mad dash to besiege Abysia's castle early on instead of trying to capture the secondary fortification at Qennan.

[WraithLord]

Nix said:
Well I had a blast, but as the Abyssians are finally beating down the walls of Caelum, it seems I won't be able to survive and greet my new overlords from R'lyeh. At any rate, I come out suitably amazed by the Mammoths' ability to crush any kind of melee opposition. I consider that I made two mistakes: 1. didn't establish enough diplomatic relations, so that that option was closed when came time to fight Abysia; and 2. should have made the mad dash to besiege Abysia's castle early on instead of trying to capture the secondary fortification at Qennan.



Nix, I must say that this makes two of us, I was completely amazed with what a mass of mammoths can do - they become worth ten times their cost and as you said they simply crush *any* smaller (in size) melee opposition, be it ten or even twenty times larger (in numbers).

As for an early rush towards my capital, I can only tell that I expected exactly that and was surprised when you settled in in Qennan, I think I would have done better had you made that move and I can relate privatly to you the why of that.

All in all, I think you have played excellently, and have made the conquest of Caelum to be a most bloody affair for my armies.

[Jazzepi]

Would anyone else be interested in a world wide alliance against Ry'leh? The people of Mictlan would be happy to offer their services in such an alliance.

Jazzepi

[Digress]

WraithLord said:
And hiding behind R'lyeh skirts won't save you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif



Surely that should be R'yleh's tentacles/slimy appendages - those weirdos have no sense of fashion.

C'tis has the finest fashion sense - our leaders head into battle wearing our finest velour bathrobes.

We for one do recognise the need for prompt and firm action.

[Jazzepi]

The people of Mictlan are interested in earth gems. We have many other types to trade, and an abundance of freshly harvested virgins. Let us know if you are interested. We can also trade items for gems.

Jazzepi

[seej]

turn 56 has been posted and is due in 48 hours

[seej]

turn 57 has been posted and is due in 48 hours

[seej]

turn 58 has been posted and is due in 47.5 hours

[Sensori]

Uh, where's turn 60?

[WraithLord]

My vote is cast for 72 hours.

[Digress]

I wouldn't mind moving to 72 hours.

[DrPraetorious]

72 hours please.

[seej]

i vote 72 hours.

[Sensori]

I vote staying at 48 hours. :-p

[seej]

I have just become funemployed. In honor of this, I shall be more strictly adhering to the 48 hour or 72 hour time limits - whichever we decide.

cj

[DrPraetorious]

I'd prefer 72, since I'm in a lot of other games.

[WraithLord]

I just want to communicate here to those who may have missed the mail messages that the game is basically dead.

Unfortunately CJ's computer has crashed and all his data was lost
hopefully by now CJ has managed to fix his computer.

I'd also like to thank all the players in this game, esp. Caelum for giving me a terrific fight.

[AdmiralZhao]

Whoot! That means I tied with everyone else. Go Tien Chi!

[Sensori]

Dead folks don't get to tie with anyone! ;p Only the living can tie with the others.