Global enchantments

[Loren]

I have a feeling something is wrong in what global gets knocked out when you overpower one.

I have had *VERY* bad luck with taking out my own globals instead of the AI's even when mine are cast with hundreds of extra gems--something I don't think the AI goes given the ease with which I normally can dispel his spells.

Just now:

First: I cast Strands of Arcane Power at about +300 gems. Do either of the AI's two go down? No--it takes down my Gift of Nature's Bounty which was cast similarly powerfully.

Next time I dispel one of the AI's. No problem.

I try to recast Gift of Nature's Bounty, failed. I put a lot of gems into it, also.

He gets off Fata Morgana, though.

Ok, I've got a gob of air gems and I know I'll get that slot from him. Oops--he gets off Purgatory which takes out Fata Morgana, my casting of Fata Morgana instead takes out my Gift of Health.


It feels to me like the game selects a random slot to see if the new one can take out the existing one rather than going against whatever's the weakest.

[RonD]

Loren said:
It feels to me like the game selects a random slot to see if the new one can take out the existing one rather than going against whatever's the weakest.



I'm pretty sure it has always worked that way.

[MaxWilson]

It does select a random slot. When your GoNB failed it was probably going up against your SoAP at +300 gems. If you want to select which spell gets replaced try casting Dispel first to free up a slot.

-Max

[Loren]

But trying to dispel it is almost hopeless--the AI recasts something every time I do.

I just failed yet again--he got up Mother Oak, I still don't have my Gift of Health back up.

[lch]

Can't you cast Dispell and your global enchantment at the same time?

[Jazzepi]

lch said:
Can't you cast Dispell and your global enchantment at the same time?



You could do that, but you'd be screwing yourself.

AFAIK all ritual magic, including global enchantments, are cast in a random order. If your dispel magic randomly got assigned AFTER the global enchantment casting mage what would happen is the global spell, which was randomly assigned to cast first, would attempt to knock out a random spell. Then the dispel would do it's thing, as long as it still had a target.

I'm not sure if you'd waste gems on a spell that no longer existed, but you run into the problem of the chance that the first ritual cast will the global, then it will have to fight for a random spot. If you simply cast the dispel, then cast the global on the next turn, you ensure that your global will go into the empty slot.

Jazzepi

[MaxWilson]

I'd give it 80% odds or better that the gems will still get used even if another global brings the spell down before you cast Dispel, because the gems seem to be "expended" more or less by the .h file, or so I gather from the Norfleet history. That is, they're spent the turn you order Dispel to be cast.

-Max

[Jazzepi]

I'd say that sounds right.

It also requires less programming for the gems to be spent, and the conditions never checked.

Jazzepi

[lch]

MaxWilson said:
I'd give it 80% odds or better that the gems will still get used even if another global brings the spell down before you cast Dispel, because the gems seem to be "expended" more or less by the .h file, or so I gather from the Norfleet history.


I didn't get most of that paragraph. What about a .h file?

Yes, you have to pay the cost of a spell in gems before casting it.

[Nick_K]

Yeah, this is quite obvious if you've ever tried to cast a limited summon like the elemental royalty when they're all already in existance

[mivayan]

Loren said:
I have a feeling something is wrong in what global gets knocked out when you overpower one.


When you cast a global that isn't already up, and all five slots are filled, it picks a random slot to try to overpower. By design. If not all slots are filled it should always get a free slot.


Next time I dispel one of the AI's. No problem.

I try to recast Gift of Nature's Bounty, failed. I put a lot of gems into it, also.

He gets off Fata Morgana, though.


Was the dispell and Gift of natures bounty on separate turns, with one global slot free in between, and your failed Gift was cast before his Fata Morgana? That'd be a bug.

[MaxWilson]

lch said:

MaxWilson said:
I'd give it 80% odds or better that the gems will still get used even if another global brings the spell down before you cast Dispel, because the gems seem to be "expended" more or less by the .h file, or so I gather from the Norfleet history.


I didn't get most of that paragraph. What about a .h file?




The question was whether the gems would still be expended if somebody else brought down the spell before Dispel was cast. We seem to be pretty reluctant to talk about file formats here, but it seems likely that the .h file encodes the number of gems you'll have on the next turn, as opposed to simply encoding how many you plan to use for Dispel. Therefore by the time you hit "End of Turn" the gems have already been spent and you won't get them back even if someone else dispels the enchantment first.

-Max

[Loren]

mivayan said:

Loren said:
I have a feeling something is wrong in what global gets knocked out when you overpower one.


When you cast a global that isn't already up, and all five slots are filled, it picks a random slot to try to overpower. By design. If not all slots are filled it should always get a free slot.


Next time I dispel one of the AI's. No problem.

I try to recast Gift of Nature's Bounty, failed. I put a lot of gems into it, also.

He gets off Fata Morgana, though.


Was the dispell and Gift of natures bounty on separate turns, with one global slot free in between, and your failed Gift was cast before his Fata Morgana? That'd be a bug.



I cast the dispel.

Next turn there were my 4 up and one empty slot.

He of course got off Fata Morgana before I got off Gift of Health. (I have *never* seen mine go first.) His went up, mine failed.