Epic Heroes Mod MA game(finished)

[DrPraetorious]

Argh!

Well, as they say, fair fights are for suckers - and taking on two opponents at once is for fools. I gambled on good luck in combat and did not get it - my desperation tactics did not pay off at-all.

Ordinarily it is my policy to burn my castles down and salt the earth when I lose, but I bear no actual ill-will against Mictlan, so I'll leave the north of my empire alone, and burn down the south.

Hopefully Arco will learn why it is generally a mistake to side with the stronger of your two neighbors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[jutetrea]

Oh wow, that didn't turn out at all like I expected. Pretty much the complete opposite.

*trying to express my surprise without giving xietor free scouting reports pffft http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

As an aside this is my first bless nation and I'm personally finding really bad scales suck. Completely goes against my normal playing style. I think its just the death scales though as I could deal with the turmoil/sloth/misfortune normally... I think. The death scales essentially force you into courses of action, I don't like that. The income loss has been pretty severe with the plagues and such. In the future I believe I'll stick with growth 0/1, and take a reduced bless.

[Xietor]

The graphs speak for themselves. And as I have fought GM before, I know what happened.

Lots of elephants, lots of communion, and soul slays. You are lucky that he has not had time to research mind hunt yet!

I have no clue what happened between Mictlan and TC, however.
So feel free to enlighten me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Anyway I am as far from Mictlan as possible.

[DrPraetorious]

No communions.

The soul slay was expected, although he had rather more of it than I'd anticipated, but there were 2 main issues -

In the southern army, I'd already shot my wad with several of my casters against his province defense. If GM had zigged instead of zagged, I would've killed one group of elephants.
As it was, he wisely avoided my other troops, and then recombined his force at the castle.
Finally, I'd forgotten that Falling Frost wasn't armor piercing. If I'd been casting falling fires, instead, his elephants would probably have broken.
But it was a desperation tactic really - as soon as both Mictlan and Arco declared war on me, I determined that I'd either earn decisive victories early, or die. I am not a patient man.

In the north, I made several administrative screwups.

I forgot to script Arrow Fend, I sent my bags of wine the *wrong way*, I forgot to move some spellcasters (who could cast Falling Frost) the previous turn, so I had far less FF available.

Finally, I messed up with army placement somehow and my line of small picket-groups was all pressed together. Not sure how that happened, additionally, my squads of archers weren't self-contiguous and broke very early.

It was the unit misplacement and the mis-located bags of wine that really killed me in the north. If that army hadn't routed, I believe it would have won. His force really couldn't hurt my God at all.

[Xietor]

Hmm,

I am not the tactical master Dr. P is, but I would have done a couple of things differently.

1. Size 6 Great Wyrm would have been facing the trampling Elephants, as they could not hurt him and he would have killed them easily;

2. Great Wyrm would have had very good mr items;

3. I would have used different spells, but i do not want to educate GM's other foes.

4. I have no earthly idea how Mictlan's armies of low protection units and chaff could withstand massed composite bows?

[Xietor]

If at all possible, please do your turns in the next 24 hours. I leave on the morning of the 24th and have no replacement, so I would like to get a turn done before i depart wed. morning (-6 GMT). Actually, I did not trust many people with my epic hero(he is quite fragile). So I would rather have a stale turn then have a dead epic hero.

I will not delay the hosting while I am gone. So I may miss a turn or 2. But it is my hope to find internet somewhere in the rural area I am visiting, and do my turn on my laptop.

[GameExtremist]

Hopefully Arco will learn why it is generally a mistake to side with the stronger of your two neighbors



Well...I wouldn't say Mictlan was the stronger at the time...A lot of factors came into consideration...either way whichever way I pitched my tent was going to swing things one way or the other.

Yeah it's a good result...surprised when I first looked at the figures...but when you look at the battle report it was pretty decisive. Watching that TC army come through the PD was scary, so many Celestial masters and falling frost!

So a small rift in time and space swallowed up a ? quantity of soul slayers...and sent them to do battle.

Anyway the battle was won but the war is far from over - especially against a foe like Dr P.

*sounds of elephants braying*

[Sieger]

Hey guys, for some reason the turn came back today with the message, "Your CD Key has been used on multiple installations. Your orders have not been executed."

I recently bought a new computer, and gave my old one to my mom. So far (I'm in four games on the Llamaserver) all my turns have worked fine when sent from the new system. However I'm visiting my mom at the moment and sent the most recent turn from my old system (the one I gave to her, and the one I started the game with) and I got the above message.

[Xietor]

I will return home the 19th. Up till now i have been able to not stale turn. If I drive for 2 hours i have internet access.

But it is a tough thing to do on vacation. And my time is really short. I would like to ask whoever is instilling uprising on vanheim's capital to cease as I now own that province and am at peace with everyone who borders me.

If you have an nap with another race, to my knowledge that includes not using covert operations against them. Naturally I hope it was intended to harass Vanheim, as I just gained that province.

In any event I am going to begin patrols, and it is considered a breach to me of a nap to cause uprising. At least that is my understanding of these things. Hopefully it is an honest mistake, and if so it is forgiven.

[Dragonninjaakira]

Hey guys I will be away this weekend starting tomorrow. I sent in the newest turn but I will probably miss one over the weekend. I'll be back Sunday night so if someone would be willing to do my next turn for me that would be much appreciated.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm essentially dead and so would be happy to do a turn for you.

[Tuidjy]

DrPraetorious, I do not think that you can submit turns for more than one nation
from the same Dominions installation. One of the two turns will get rejected.
If you sub for Dragonninjaakira's C'tis, you will have to stall T'ien Ch'i.

[DrPraetorious]

Oh, right.

Nevermind then.

[Xietor]

I have returned from my vacation!

Did you find a sub yet? I would think someone would take a turn or 2 for you if they had an interest in the mod.

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, can't more than one person play with the same key, as long as they also have the same IP address? Or is that not how it works?

Also, I'm not sure how this relates to play-by-email.

[lch]

DrPraetorious said:
Actually, can't more than one person play with the same key, as long as they also have the same IP address? Or is that not how it works?


No. One key per player, no dupes among player keys or they'll stale.

[Horst F. JENS]

dear fellow players,
my internet provider has technical problems so i have no internet access for the next days. please don't switch me to A.I., i hope to have internet access again during the next week.
-Horst (playing MAN)

[llamabeast]

Do you want me to take your turns Horst?

[Xietor]

Llamabeast,

He may be unable to respond. If he does not, please do his turns, as it would be bad for him to stale.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, anyway, I think Li Bo could go ahead and have flying and earth magic back without damaging game balance. He was nice to have around, but he doesn't have that much effect on how T'ien Ch'i plays.

Some parting thoughts:
* Fair fights are for suckers.
* Chance does not appear to favor the bold so much as the bold might like.
* Assume that your neighbors will attack you - direct your research towards the neighbors you have, not just towards the target you'd like to strike.

[Xietor]

Dr. P,

For the record, did you make your Epic Hero a prophet?

So far we have the Llamabeast secret tally, plus some public disclosures:

1. Shinuyama-was not prophet
2. Ctis- was not prophet
3. Vanheim-was prophet(curious choice for a prophet)
4.

[Tuidjy]

Pythium - not a prophet.

[Sir_Dr_D]

I don't think Vanheims Epic was a prophet. Vanheims original prophet was a dwarf smith which Machaka was able to assasinate. Is it possible that the AI made the little gnome into a prophet afterwards?

I will add that I made Machaka's Epcic Hero into a prophet. The game anounces when a prophet is made, so it is not exactly a secret. Plus you just have to check the hall of fame right now to find this out.

[DrPraetorious]

I didn't make him a prophet.

[Xietor]

So Vanheim's Epic Hero was not his original prophet.

That is 5 "no prophet" races , and 1 epic hero prophet.

[Zoshan]

My squid face is not my prophet.

Atlantis

[Xietor]

I did want to make this official, LLamabeast will be doing Man's turns until Horst's internet issues are resolved.

Also there is a new message of the day that is extremely important to read.

[Xietor]

Ctis staled last turn, and 2 hours until host, has not done this turn. I am going to delay the host by 4 hours.

Anyone volunteers to do his turn? It cannot be a current player or someone who is already subbing.

[DrPraetorious]

I can do his turn but not in the next 4 hours, I have to go to work soon. Do I still count as playing?

[Xietor]

Unless you have 2 different cd numbers, you cannot do ctis turn and TC's turn as well.

I can further delay the host if you need more time and have 2 different copies of the game?

[DrPraetorious]

My understanding was that was only even an issue with play-by-IP. You can certainly play more than one turn on the same computer for a non-IP game!

Anyway, even on play-by-IP, I think if two turn files have the same IP address *and* the same CD key, that's fine - it's the same CD key and *different* IP addresses that cause problems.

[llamabeast]

I'm not sure Dr P, I would have agreed with Xietor, although I can't now really remember the occasions that made me think that so I'm not super sure.

[Xietor]

Well, Ctis has staled 3 turns in a row, it cant hurt to let dr p try.

Llama can you send Dr P ctis turn, or is that something i can do now?

[llamabeast]

It's something you can do now. Feel the power!

Edit: Thought it might be useful to say how. Admin options->Change a player's e-mail address, then back to the main game info page and request a resend.

I'll e-mail you Dr P's e-mail address to save asking him. Hope that's okay Dr P.

[Xietor]

I changed Ctis email to Dr. P's, but I did not see any way to send the turn to him?

[DrPraetorious]

I see no evidence of a C'tis turn.

[Xietor]

Dr P you have to request a turn resend yourself. Go to the Epic Hero part of llamaserver.

[llamabeast]

You just need to request to resend C'tis' turn. It's on the main EpicHeroes page, just under "Admin options".

[llamabeast]

Yeah, actually you can request other people's turns to resend - it's a bit of a quirk, but doesn't matter I think.

[Xietor]

Dr. P,

Although I am almost 100 percent certain 1 of your turns will stale, please do no trades between the 2 races in the event both go through.

I have no way of checking who does what, but I believe you are an honorable guy.

[DrPraetorious]

Both of those positions are dead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

C'tis bought a great sage with astral and death, he's been diseased by his own dominion, and he's about to lose dominion in his own capital. His inventory consists of no gems and a flame helmet.

[Xietor]

Bummer for the Lizards(:

[LoloMo]

The Agarthans will extend aid to C'tis's hapless pretender by generously sharing our vibrant and healthy dominion to the residents of the Lizardmen's Capital. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

For those following the thread-Vanheim was eliminated this turn. It was the 1st race to fall. Its pretender never broke free.

I feel quite comfortable that Vanheim's Epic hero is quite good. Epic even. The watchers as a free dominion summon were hell to deal with. And the clockwork horrors came in masses as a cheap dom summon.

After hearing the good Dr. ask for 2n and wings after playing his epic hero, I will acquiesce to his request, since he feels the best use for the hero is site searching, and the other immortal heroes fly.

[Xietor]

Due to an unexpected personal event I was forced to postpone the hosting of the game by 12 hours.

[jutetrea]

Bah, GMT messes me up a bit on timing. I look at the status page and think I have another 5 hours before host.

Anyone want to trade for some earth gems? Pretty low atm and could use a boost. PM me with any requests in return/offers. Same with astral.

[DrPraetorious]

Death to you all!

I believe that Arco will now intercept my one remaining force and crush it. I hope that no-one wins.

Peace out,
TNDP

[jutetrea]

Bummer man, an unlucky battle or two on one turn and it seemed that everything went south.

I'm still surprised that Mict survived that first battle, let alone won with few losses.

[jutetrea]

I will be out till Sunday as we're having a child, wife is in labor right now and we'll probably be heading to the hospital in a couple of hours.

I'll be submitting this turn, and then probably staling if we don't pause.

[LoloMo]

I second the pause! Congrats my friend!

[Xietor]

we will do the next turn as scheduled, then we will pause until Monday in honor of a new very tiny Dominions'player!

Congratulations and good luck!

*GM may need more time to find a permanent sub as well.

So we can take a small break after the next turn.

[jutetrea]

Sounds good, my turns in even if its pretty half-arsed.

and Please!Please!Please! be a gamer! Reinforcements against the wife!

[Xietor]

well,

you are winning i would say. You have the most lands, the biggest armies, and 2 key globals up. So you can afford to do 1 "half arse" turn.

It is an interesting game thus far. Some races have yet to taste battle. Like every game i am in, i seem to find action right from the opening bell to the final buzzer.

Could it be my charming personality?

[jutetrea]

Looks are deceiving, first time i've tried a bless strat and first time i've taken death scales. Not a big fan of either. I'm more in favor of the semi-defensive opportunistic approach and research my butt off. Not really possible this game, i feel i've been pushed by my bad scales.

Income is an issue, and without being able to move to a blood economy pretty worrying.

Still an interesting game. Other than indy's my hero hasn't been that influential though. Think I might like heroes that add another troop type or an additional magic path more. He was a monster against indy's though, didn't do much at all vs. TC I think (can't really remember).

[Xietor]

Your hero attracts sacred jaguar warriors like a fly to honey. Is that not a pretty good feature?

If you want to take a stab at a unique summon for the blood-cursed champion, that would be cool.

[Xietor]

For the record, Ctis suffered a dominion kill, and has been eliminated from the game.

Rumor has it that the Agarthans in their attempt to aid the hapless Ctis Pretender who was afflicted with disease-went a bit too far with their aid.

The game is on a bit of a break until Monday to welocme a new baby, and perhaps a new player Gray Z taking over Arcos mighty empire for GM.

Let me be the 1st to welcome Gray Z to the game. Good luck feeding those elephants.

[LoloMo]

Oops, the Agarthans apologize profusely for inadvertently snuffing out C'tis' Old Man. We are big and clumsy and not too bright. We will offer reparations by generously serving up our Great Soul of Agartha as a worthy replacement for your Old Man Pretender. Our volunteers will now go forth among the lizards to enlighten them on the ways of the Greatest Lizard of all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[GrayZ]

Xietor said:
For the record, Ctis suffered a dominion kill, and has been eliminated from the game.

Rumor has it that the Agarthans in their attempt to aid the hapless Ctis Pretender who was afflicted with disease-went a bit too far with their aid.

The game is on a bit of a break until Monday to welocme a new baby, and perhaps a new player Gray Z taking over Arcos mighty empire for GM.

Let me be the 1st to welcome Gray Z to the game. Good luck feeding those elephants.



Thanks Xietor!

I guess it's bad timing that I inherited an elephant race while there is a post about elephants on the first page...

I haven't heard from GameExtremist yet, hopefully I get to talk to him before he leaves. Could everyone send me their status with me just in case?

[Xietor]

I would be shocked if GM did not brief you. In any event keep me posted. If needed I can delay host until you are briefed, and in a worse case scenario, I can have turns sent to your email address and give you time to see what is going on.

Do you have the proper versions of the mods downloaded and the map?

I just checked all of the download links at the start of this thread and they are all still working. If you have not seen arcos elephant, you may want to make a practice game and test the mod and get acquainted with your Epic Hero.

He has a summon troop command, plus a strong unit that comes as a dominion summon(slow rate though). and only in a high dominion. Since a priestess rides in the basket on top of the elephant, he also has a "heal" command. That can be useful when your elephants need healing out on a war campaign.

[GameExtremist]

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=540493&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID=


I've sebt GrayZ a very brief rundown on the situation, sorry I can't do more but I leave to do and have so many other things to do. I havent sent him any files etc....so it would be great if you could Xietor.

Cheers
Guys

[GrayZ]

GameExtremist said:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=540493&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID=


I've sebt GrayZ a very brief rundown on the situation, sorry I can't do more but I leave to do and have so many other things to do. I havent sent him any files etc....so it would be great if you could Xietor.

Cheers
Guys



I have the map & mods, as I understand it llamabest (or Xietor?) can switch the game to my email address,and then we are good to go.

GrayZ

[Xietor]

Done.

You should be receiving the turn file shortly. The Llamaserver now has your address as the one to send arcos turn files to. So I am out of the equation.

Good Luck!

[GrayZ]

I've sent my turn without any problems.

Glad to join the game!

[Xietor]

At this point, I am proposing a vote of the 9 remaining players. Since this game is a test of the Epic Heroes Mod, as well as a mp game, I want to ban certain spells that can end the game through "magical" means, rather than the field of battle. To be fair, there will be a package vote on 4 spells

1. Arcane Nexus
2. Burden of Time
3. Utterdark
4. Astral corruption

To my knowledge there are no blood races, so 4 is likely not relevant. Arcane Nexxus impacts the 3 astral races equally, while the 2 death globals impact Shinuyama, machaka, and Agartha.

It is an all or nothing vote. A simple yes or no will suffice, but of course you are free to vent about how i should have had the vote at the start of the game etc. you are right. But this is the 1st multiplayer game i have administered(not counting 1 v 1 games), so patience is a virtue.

My vote is to ban the spells. 5 votes will carry the day either way. We have 9 players, so there can be no tie. Banning the arcane spell prevents rlyeh from just sitting in the water all game making clams and springing the game winning spell later on while the rest of us beat each other up.

[jutetrea]

I obviously vote yes to banning them all, I would only have any real possibility of casting 1 of them. Plus, I hate em all (except nexus when I can cast it!) Same with Forge.

[jutetrea]

And that sucked, staled last turn.

Is there a chance of increasing the warning to 8 hrs? Didn't get home yesterday till late afternoon and was a bit busy with the first day at home.

[DrPraetorious]

I'd like Tyrant and (whoever was playing Arco, I forget) to comment on my scorched earth at the end. Does that dissuade people from attacking me in the future? Did I do enough damage that you even noticed?

Do you think it was sportsmanlike? I'm a bit of a game theory buff, see.

[Xietor]

From my perspective only, those that do a scorched earth policy are people who i target for early elimination. Same reason i target any of my neighbors with death dominion for early termination(Vanheim in this game).

If I see a neighbor with strong growth, and another with 2 death, I view my longterm interests in having provinces with income, so if possible I attack the death dom 1st.

If a player is notorious for destroying lands, i would rather get him out of the game before he has even more provinces to ruin. That policy is my own, however, and likely is not much copied by other players.

I set the reminder notices to 8 hours as requested.

[Zoshan]

Ban all them spells they make the game end too fast. I would much rather fight it out.

[Tuidjy]

I am used to my opponent going for scorched earth policies. I cannot remember
the last time I fought someone who did not start taxing his provinces into ruin,
dodging my armies and trying to inflicts as much damage as possible before dying.

I play the exact opposite way. I do not plan for losing, and if it seems that
I cannot win, I will go AI. I sometimes even send the gems/gold to the victor.
I have not noticed people attacking me early because of that. Of course, I have
not been around long enough in Dominion III to get a reputation.

[llamabeast]

I don't mind the scorched earth thing in character, but I don't really like the game theory aspect of it. To my mind your god in a particular game shouldn't behave in a way reflecting the existence of other games. IMHO.

Also despite your scorched earth and 'one last stab in the eye' tendency I've had a habit of going right for you in MP games. This is largely coincidence - to be honest I think you'd be far better as an ally then an enemy - but also is influenced by the fact that (a) I'm scared of you and would rather have you out before you get too powerful (this was a major motivation in Alpaca, particularly since you were playing late-game-scary Pythium, and also twice as Niefelheim as I'm scared witless of Niefelheim), and (b) I also have a bit of Xietor's feeling that I don't want you to scorch too much earth so it's best if you never get too much in the first place.

[llamabeast]

I should add that that most of the reason for being scared of Pythium and Niefelheim came from the player rather than the nation - you should take that as a compliment.

[jutetrea]

I don't see anything wrong with a scorched earth policy, A player can Pillage, tax and destroy to
gain money to fight to the bitter end, or gain money to give to an enemy of your enemy, or just to be annoying.

Any of which is viable. I don't think its a real deterrent though, it would just make me try to defeat them quicker. Possibly by enlisting more support and spreading the spoils, or paying off others to assist in the short term versus payback in the longterm.

I still think that when a player is defeated some portion of their treasury/stockpile should go to the victor. Or at least some sort of 1 time bonus in relation to the defeated players wealth/power. Would be very hard to implement because then more people would choose the "give everything to an enemy of my enemy" method. Or in the case of a gang up, who gets it?

For instance, I got attacked by two nations in the perpetuality game at the same time. They are currently out of the game and I'm going strong. I think there should be a reward for that ABOVE the now additional provinces/capital/income. Greedy I admit, but it was pretty anticlimactic to finally knock off MA Arco and not even get the bloody items his SCs were wearing when I killed em. AND you don't even get to see where they site-searched, so you have to re-search the provinces just in case (or at least I usually do).

I don't know, maybe a flat reward by equation, an event "you defeated xyz, plundered their treasury and gain:
gold = ((#players-#players remaining)/#players)*3000
gems = ((#players-#players remaining)/#players)*#turns played (of main gem type, or randomly split, or whatever)

[Xietor]

So far we have 3 for banning game ending spells:
1. Shinuyama
2. Atlantis
3. Mictlan

[jutetrea]

I'll also add that actions in one game shouldn't affect actions in another (although I'll still remember betrayal, even if thematic or RP'd so a bit of a hypocrite there)

[LoloMo]

I vote to ban also.

[Xietor]

Curious that none of the astral races have voted.

[GrayZ]

DrPraetorious said:
I'd like Tyrant and (whoever was playing Arco, I forget) to comment on my scorched earth at the end. Does that dissuade people from attacking me in the future? Did I do enough damage that you even noticed?

Do you think it was sportsmanlike? I'm a bit of a game theory buff, see.



GameExtremist did, now I am subbing for him. I only joined when you had your last army, so I can't really comment on how well it worked.

I found it interesting that when you attacked my capital. Since you didn't own the castle (or any other provnince), it removed you from the game. I guess it would have been better to attack one of the uncastled provinces instead...


Xietor said:
Curious that none of the astral races have voted.




Let me be the first, and the first to vote no. I've never played an astral race MP, I'd like to keep my options open. I think (possibly naively) that the remaining nations in the game could join together to overcome those spells, either by spamming globals, dispelling, etc.

[Xietor]

While war has constantly raged in the West, is there peace in the East? Why aren't you guys killing each other? Get with it.

[Xietor]

"I've never played an astral race MP."

Way to paint a target on your back! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Good Luck.

[GrayZ]

Luckily GE has, and has researched mind hunt & soul slay already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My MP experience is pretty lacking. A few games in dom 2 (pan, abysia) and two in dom 3 (Vanheim, Eriu - both not going well.)

I've played a few SP games of Arco & Ryleh recently to get comfortable with high level astral...

[Horst F. JENS]

i do not vote on the subject banning game-ending spells because i did not made up my mind.

[Xietor]

Ten Hours to Host! Do your turns!

If you sent them in, even if you received an email receipt, make sure that you verify that your turn has been received at the Llamaserver website.

I sent mine in earlier, and received an email saying it had been received, but when i looked at the web page it showed my turn had not been received. I had to resend it.

To date 4 nations have still not sent in their turns, or sent them in and were not retained due to the computer issue earlier with the host computer:

Rlyeh, Pythium, Mictlan, and Machaka.

[DrPraetorious]

I vote *against* banning game-ending spells.

Furthermore, I vote twice! From beyond the grave! Wooooo!

Seriously, I don't think it's fair to ban game-ending spells at this point. You should specify if you're going to do that sort of thing at the begining.

[Xietor]

As I explained, I understand that position. But I really am hosting this game to test Epic Heroes. And believe it or not, with the chalice and a very high d gem income, i can make a viable play to win with BOT up.

But I think it would achieve a better result for me to test my mod to let the races slug it out. If this was not the Epic Heroes test game, I would have never proposed it.

And it is being voted on-i did not unilaterally impose it on anyone.

[Xietor]

If a 5th vote is not received before the next turn, I will assume there is at least indecision among the remaining 5 about banning game ending spells after the game is started.

So if you are unsure, just do nothing, and all spells will remain fair game. And perhaps that is for the best since we did not vote at the start of the game.

[Xietor]

Ok,

It is now official-no spells will be banned. While only 1 voted no outright, the silence of 4 indicate doubt about changing the status quo. And it is possible that the astral races think they can get up that arcane nexus and steal a win.

I will state that I personally will not cast burden of time or utterdark. But the remaining 8 players feel free to cast anything you want.

[GrayZ]

I think that's the right approach, I delayed in voting because

1) If I voted no, I would be the first vote, and possibly make myself a target and
2) I had just joined the game, and didn't want to rock the boat.
3) I wasn't entirely sure either way, so I was hoping the decision would be made for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It was only after repeated prompting from you Xietor that I voted - we'll see how big a target that puts on me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

I encouraged everyone to vote-not just you. The other 4 just ignored me. heh. If we were going to implement it, I wanted a decision made fast in case anyone has been sitting under the water making clams the whole game thinking that was their ace in the hole.

But it is now settled in a timely manner and the Rlyeh can continue their clam operations without fear(speculation on my part). I would recommend the other astral races save their own astral pearls for a dispel.

[Xietor]

In another of my games the host time increased from 24 to 48 and now to 72 hours. My interest in that game is waning a bit because of the amount of time between turns.

When this game was set up, I said I was going to stick with a 24 hour hosting schedule. But since 2 players wanted a 48 hour host(and they are both still alive), I went to 48.

But the game will not be going to a 72 hour hosting schedule. The map is not that big, and I cannot envision anyone needing 72 hours to complete a single turn.

If your real life schedule becomes such that you cannot do turns in a 48 hour period, then you may be able to get a temporary sub until your schedule gets better, or even a permanent sub if there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

No one has even hinted to moving the game to a 72 hour schedule, but in case someone was thinking about it-do not.

[Xietor]

For the turn that will host 2 days after the present one 8/18, there will be only be 45 rather than 48 hours. For personal reasons i would like the game to host at 10 pm my time rather than 1 am.

I find myself waiting up for the turn, and i have to get up at 7 am, so it is affecting my sleep!

[Xietor]

Mictlan is looking for a permanent sub. If anyone knows someone, let me know.

There are also 2 races needing subs in the big game, and LA Tien Chi is actually doing pretty well. That would be a permanent sub. Machaka is also looking for a sub for 1 month in the big game.

If you are being eliminated here, you may want to take a peek at the Big game. Or if you are doing well, but have some free time, it may be fun to see what the buzz is all about in the Big Game.

[Tuidjy]

Mictlan is an important nation. I suggest we put the game on hold until
we get a replacement. (Anything for a break, that's me ;-)

[Xietor]

Do your turns people. At the very least I will get someone to take a turn or 2 for mictlan. Do not count on a delay.

If anyone needs a delay in the game, like Mictlan did for having a baby etc, they will normally be granted upon request.

Requests for a delay must be made on this thread, however, so the other players know why the game is being delayed.

[jutetrea]

I'll be playing my turns until a replacement is found, I just don't care to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I don't want to leave a complete shambles for my replacement. That last stale was an accident, missed it by 2 minutes and it pissed me off.

I'll be getting the turn in about 6 tonight.

[Xietor]

I do not understand the logic in doing your turns at the last minute. Typically i do my turns within 30 minutes after i get the new one if i am not working etc that prevents it.

Living in New Orleans, especially in the height of hurricane season, and with our infrastructure in shambles, I have little desire to "trust" that my power and internet connection will both be working in that last 2-3 hours before the game hosts.

*if people are holding off on doing their turns early because they do not want a faster host schedule, I am going to turn off force host. So you will still get the full 48 hours to do a turn.

[Xietor]

I do not want people stale turning because they are waiting until the last minute to do their turns because they do not want force host triggered.

Force host is now off. The game will only host once every 48 hours. So there is now no disincentive to turning in a turn in a timely manner.

So, even if everyone has turned in their turns, the game will not host before the 48 hour period expires. That way you can always revisit and tweak your turns at a later time, while still having a "basic" turn submitted to avoid a stale.

[Horst F. JENS]

I'm off to work in another city for a week and will not resume playing before saturday.

[Xietor]

Do you want me to try and find a sub for you until you get back? Things look fairly grim judging by the score graphs.

[Xietor]

It is one of the most powerful nations in the Big Game. While they are presently at war with me, it is possible, with concessions for the wrongs they have visited upon me, that I could make peace the new owner.

Regardless, they are a much more powerful nation than MA Ctis(me), so do not let a lil war with the lizards discourage you.

[Xietor]

he has a strong position in the big game. Forge of ancients up as well.

[Xietor]

Force host is turned off. The game will not host early if everyone turns in their turns early.

But most people are still waiting until the last minute. Well, that is ok i guess. no one staled last turn. Still baffles me why people are waiting until the final 30 minutes to send in turns though.

I am guessing other people live in areas with reliable power and internet. heh.

[jutetrea]

Son of a $#$%$^

I had planned on doing my turn tonight, but noooo my best friend decided to go 5 weeks early with an emergency C section. Missed my ball game and my turns. #$%#$@.

15 minutes too late, had the turn pretty much done too, thought I'd even submitted it.

Crap.

In other news, baby and mom are fine.

[Xietor]

there is no reason not to submit a "base" turn early. Force host is off-repeat off. Game will not host until 48 hours has passed.

I may-repeat may-delay hosting by 24 hours since Man said he was returning Saturday. He did not request a delay or arrange for a sub, and I was not going to delay the game a week.

But I may, if i am at my computer an hour before hosting, delay it by 24 hours max if man has not done his turn by then.

I know his position is not good, and he did not request a delay, but he has been a good player, and I hate to have stales make his situation even more dire.

Since I did state i would only grant delays if someone posted on the thread asking for one, and Man did not, if anyone objects to the 24 hour delay, I will not do it.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Man did state that they were going to be away. I count that the same as asking for a delay.

[Xietor]

Hmm.

If you are leaving for a week, i expect you to get a sub. I will not delay the game a week for anyone. But I will delay it a day so he does not stale again.

[Sir_Dr_D]

I didin't notcie he had said he would be gone a week.

[Tuidjy]

I for one welcome a delay for us overlords!

[Xietor]

well, since pythium is at war with man, and favors a 24 hour extension, i will make it so.

A 24 hour extension for this turn only has been added. Look at the website for the new date of the hosting for next turn.

[Xietor]

More lives than a cat. Dr. P is back!

This time as Mictlan. While this is a bit unusual, I am going to allow it. Dr. P was the only person willing to sub after a long period of hunting for a sub. Moreover, he has the same enemies as Tien Chi.

In other words, Dr. P cannot take a new random nation and use it as a weapon against a nation that previously had no beef with his nation.

Mictlan is already at war with the rlyeh, so what more can Dr. P do that was not being done already?

[jutetrea]

Keep the thread more active so I can at least pay attention vicariously!

Good luck Dr. P!

Been very fun, and so far I'm a big fan of the epic heroes. With everything else going on in life I just had to get out of my multiplayer games, 4 was too many.

Bets on a winner at this stage?

[Tuidjy]

What's up with the server? The deadline has been creeping up by ten minutes every
ten minutes. Are we trying to give someone a chance to fix his turn, or is the
server crashing on host and retrying?

[Xietor]

Server was acting up. I finally turned quick host back on just to force host. Force host is off again, and i reset time so it will host at a civilized time for me.

[Xietor]

As far as updates:

Man is hanging on by a thread
Machaka is looking grim but determined
Pythium and Agartha scare me.
Mictlan is at war with rlyeh
Arcos, atlantis are cooling their heels.
Shinuyama is underpowered and weak, so most have left us alone, for which we are grateful.

[llamabeast]

Server was acting up deliberately. The mail server (a different machine entirely, and not mine) was being funny last night, and the llamaserver mostly couldn't reach it. To stop people staling unfairly it postpones hosting on each failure. Er, so if the mail server is down for an hour I think the server postpones hosting by a total of 2 hours, to allow an extra hour at the end for any messages that might have been unable to reach the mail server to arrive.

I believe the server will have put an automated message on the front page to this effect, but being as it always seems to happen when I'm in bed I've never actually seen it.

[Xietor]

It is a couple hours until host, and only 2 people have their turns in. I had to submit mine twice earlier, so there may have been a few issues.

I am going to push back host an hour and keep an eye on it. Get your turns in!

[jutetrea]

So anything exciting been happening? Board's pretty quiet.

[Tuidjy]

*sigh* For some reason I am kinda bored with this game. It was supposed
to let me get accustomed to Dominions III. That it did, but now I realize
how many things I did wrong, and it's kind of a drag. I am still learning
from it (thanks Xietor) but I always take my turns in the last second, and
am less careful with the lives of my men than I usually am. And there is
no roleplaying to do so, yeah, I'm quiet :-)

[LoloMo]

The pacifistic Agarthans, having no real strategic talent, and thus having NAPPed themselves into a corner are currently sitting around twiddling their thumbs, waiting for some foolish nation to declare war on them, and thus explode the entire world into war once more =)

[Xietor]

Sua Sponte I have delayed hosting by 1 hour due to almost half the players not yet doing their turns.

Since we are getting few stales, i am assuming people are deliberately waiting until the last minute to do their turns. This laziness baffles me since force host is not on.

[Xietor]

Due to recent events on the forums, under the thread title "mists of deception" a major bug has been exposed.

As game administrator, I am going to take the same stance Velusion took in the Big Game:

1. Mists of deception is banned. Casting it will be dealt with on a case by case basis, but you most likely will be put on AI. It is a major bug and is on the short list to be fixed.

2. Battlefield enchantments are supposed to disappear when the mage casting the battlefield enchantment leaves the battle or dies. Some spells stay up after a mage retreats or dies. While we cannot do anything about mages dying, it will be considered an exploit to deliberately cast a battlefield enchantment and have the casting mage deliberately retreat(ie cast ritual of returning or script to retreat).

I know we are all honorable players and do not want to win by using what has been labeled as an exploit by the developers. Apparently it will be corrected in the next patch. Understandably, most of us have used and have had these tactics used against us. But we are all going to have to adjust our tactics.

[Tuidjy]

I do not see why Mists of Deception should be banned. Where is the harm if
the enemy does not retreat, but stays and fights instead?

As for casting buffs or battlefield enchantments and retreating, this is a
tactic that has been extremely popular and is being used by everyone. I do
not think that I have used it in this game, but I routinely retreat my
buffing mages in my other game.

Furthermore I do not believe in setting rules after the game has started.
The only way I would agree to any house rules at this point is by unanimous vote.

I see four issues here.

Mists of Deception that is meant to make the fight last after one army has
fully retreated. This is an exploit, and I could live with it being banned
without a vote.

Casting battlefield enchantments and retreating the caster. I think it is a
valid strategy, and it was used against me in this game, but I will vote for
banning it, because I can live with the rule. If anyone votes against, though,
I say it's allowed, and I will use it.

Casting Mists of Deception, and fighting on. Perfectly valid in my book,
I vote against banning it.

Casting buffs, summoning nasties, or throwing damage spells and retreating.
I will use this if I stay in the game, and if you guys disagree, I will be
looking for a replacement.

[Xietor]

The developers say what is an exploit and what is not.

Mists of deception can be used if you stay on the battlefield and fight. It is an exploit to have a mage cast it, and say wraithful skies, then retreat. That means the army is fighting no enemy but is destroyed by battlefield enchantments and cannot end it by killing anyone. This is clearly an exploit.

Buffing and retreating is not a problem. It is battlefield enchantments like wrathful skies and then retreating. For a better explanation, read the thread on the main board entitled Mists of deception.

To be honest, I was unaware that this conduct was an exploit myself. But now that it is labeled as such, it should not be used. No vote is needed to stop exploits. Most people should be aware that exploits are not acceptable.

[Tuidjy]

In my post I agreed that the narrow case of MoD/SA + WS/FS/etc + retreat is an exploit.
I read your post to mean that the spell itself should be banned.

[Xietor]

Yeah, I was over broad.

The gist of the rule is to take advantage of a bug that leaves a battlefield enchantment up after the mage casting it dies or retreats. Players have no control over when their mages die in battle.

But if the backbone of your strategy is to have a mage equipped with forbidden light(autocast solar brillance) enter a battle with some other commanders and chaff,then cast ritual of returning and blind the other army while he kills your chaff, that is an exploit.

Admittedly, I bought forbidden light for just this purpose.
But it will not sit unused in my lab. Try to avoid strategies where your mage that casts the battlefield enchantment purposely leaves the battle before it ends.

Retreating other mages who buff you own troops is fine. It is the spells that destroy the enemy that are exploitive if the casting mage is not on the battlefield-so say the developers.

[Xietor]

Game Update:

Machaka and Man both were eliminated this turn.

If possible, departing players please post suggestions or comments on your(and other) Epic Heroes on the Epic Heroes thread in the Mod forum.

Thank you for help play testing the mod, and for any comments-good or bad-about the Epic Heroes.

[LoloMo]

Man fought a brave battle in the face of multiple enemies. We salute their passion in battle and their zeal in fighting to the end. Man will forever hold a place in our oral traditions as a worthy foe.

[Xietor]

I would also like to tip my hat to Machaka. He was a worthy foe, and had intricate knowledge of the game.

[Horst F. JENS]

Thanks for playing, guys. I learned a lot, and i have seen things never seen before while playing the A.I.

[Xietor]

Surprisingly,

two of the weakest nations, Shinuyama and Atlantis, are still alive. And I think their Epic Heroes are among the weakest as well.

All of the Big 3 Astral power nations, most especially PYTHIUM, are thriving.

Shinuyama is trying to keep a low profile and not anger any of my powerful neighbors. Our peaceful race merely seeks to record history-not make it.

[jutetrea]

So other than still being alive, how are things going?

Who's fighting whom?

Ry'leh still kicking? Atlantis still lurking?

When I left Arco was kind of an unknown, didn't know which way he'd jump. Staying put? Did he attack Mict? Agartha? Atlantis?

Same with Agartha, they were looking pretty good as well. Heavy dominion and troops if I remember correctly.

Pythium had some good momentum, did he continue east or turn west?

Didn't know much about Shin.

Hows Mict doing? Inquiring minds want to know.

Also, EA Lanka is still looking for a perm sub in Perpetuality. I'm taking over temporarily till a perm sub is found. Still a strong position, even though there has been a few stales recently. Just shoring up the borders and bulking up to prepare it.

[Xietor]

EH Game has hit turn 60.

Pythium is clearly number 1 on the power charts. Angels flying all over, master enslave looking unbeatable. Likely just a matter of time for Pythium to close the books on the rest of us.

Mictlan is fighting the water races. Looks like Mictlan is doing well outside the water. Rlyeh has kicked Mictlan out of the water(i think).

Arcos is just hanging out, as is Agartha. They of course could be powerful as well, but have not seen them in action.

Agartha has potent dominion though, and I would not be surprised to see another dominion kill in the near future. Agatha is also number 1 by a wide margin in research. Umbrals(drain life) 70 hps everywhere.

Pythium attacked Ryleh last turn. So at least 2 of the world powers are fighting.

Atlantis is losing provinces to someone. Likely Ryleh. Not sure though.

[DrPraetorious]

Atlantis is losing provinces to me (Mictlan.)

I didn't handle the war against R'lyeh properly after I took over - I was in the process of retooling my army but his assassinations were taking a serious toll, and with wars against Atlantis and Shinuyama, I couldn'r reinforce.

[Xietor]

Shinuyama? War? Nope, I am just nibbling a few provinces to keep up with the Joneses. Do not mind me.

/whistles innocently.

Dr. P Do you think the Rlyeh Epic Hero needs toned down? That is one of the main heroes I plan to tone down a decent amount.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, on the one hand I didn't know that R'lyeh had so many troops left in his fortress or I would've just gotten out of the water as soon as I took the position. Fighting a war of attrition underwater is a losing proposition.

OTOH, yeah, he was crazy bad-*** and practically turned the war all on his own. As another sea power it wouldn't have been so bad, but as a land power invading a sea power I am forced to use relatively few commanders and I lose their entire complement of troops when they die (no more watebreathing), so it was nasty. Also I had to keep teleporting in astral mages to prevent mindhunting.

[Xietor]

Arcos has staled twice in a row. I have pmed Grayz. If no response is received I will either find a sub before next host, or set arcos to AI.

Pretty good race, and had a strong position when GM handed it over. In any event, before next host I will either have heard from grayz that he is doing his turn, will have a sub for Arcos., or it will be set on AI.

But Arcos will not have stale next turn.

[Tuidjy]

I've sent my turn a few times, but the server is not replying, or showing it
as received. And hosting is in 10 minutes. :-(

[Xietor]

The turn is hosting and it shows everyone got their turn in. You likely just did not get an email notification yet.

[Tuidjy]

Yeah, the turn got received for all the good it did. I think I should be
looking for a replacement anyway. I have lost all interest in this game,
and am doing stupid [censored] all over the board. Not that my position is bad,
far from it. But in the last few turns, I have done the following:

Sent a harbringer with 100 gems worth of equipment solo, unscripted.
Stormed Man's capital after unscripting "resist lightning" from
all my commanders.
Failed to forge Mage Bane for a dozen turns, considering that it is usually
the second artifact I get.
Did not assigning bodyguards while besieging R'lyeh, after reading all
the stuff about it on the boards.

The Gods protect the fools, and I have been lucky in not really hurting
for any of the above: due to some insane luck, all but my indy commanders
killed the assassins, Man routed a few turns after casting Wrathful skies,
no one forged Mage Bane... the harbringer died, but it's no big deal.

So if anyone really wants to play a well developed MA Pythium, drop me a
message. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with the nation, it's even better
than one would think from the graphs.

[Xietor]

I do not know if i was careless-or just failed to anticipate a battle with 68 commanders-many of them chock full of items and gems.

It does not appear that the two water races bled Mictlan much at all(:

[jutetrea]

Go Mictlan! Woot!

um, er... ahem. sorry.

[GameExtremist]

I return....

If Grayz is no longer playing I will take My beloved elephant legions back...only if he is unable to play though.

;->

[Xietor]

welcome back to the surface GM! Grayz did a turn and sent me a pm explaining why he staled the previous 2.

You can send grayz a pm and check with him. What we could perhaps do if Pythium is really looking for a sub is have gray take over pythium(who is presently the toughest race by far),
and maybe have you take over your original race.

Or if you want to play Pythium for a change of pace GM, they are currently in a very good position to win the game. It is not boringly good, as Agartha is tough, and even Shinuyama may put up a fight.

Arcos. is not in a bad spot-they just have been at peace since you left. So they occupy about the same position, while other races have expanded.

Mictlan is still potent as well.

[GrayZ]

I already sent a PM to GE offering his spot back if he wants it - I wasn't particularly thinking of taking over for Pythium, although the idea is iteresting.

I'm finding it hard to keep up with 2 games right now, I'm also playing in atla.

No matter what happens, I don't want to leave this game in a lurch - if no one is available for pythium or GE doesn't want to play Arco again, then I will definately keep playing.

[Tuidjy]

I will play Pythium until a replacement is found. It's just that I am not playing
it as well as it could be played. Let me ask a coworker... the only thing that
kinda bothers me is that I am using my default password for this particular game.

[DrPraetorious]

Ach! I'm at work and this is taking much longer than expected, I may not be able to get home in time to do my turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

If anyone is listening and could give me a 4 hr extension it'd be much appreciated (yes that would be an extension to 3 AM).

[Xietor]

I will go ahead and make it an 8 hour extension.

Dr P if you prefer a 24 extension let me know and ill tack on 16 more hours. No need to rush your turn after working all night.

[Xietor]

Ryleh has informed me that school has taken too much of his time, so I am replacing him with a person recommended by Atlantis. He has never played a mp game before, and only a couple of sp games.

I think there are mostly skilled players left in the game-so Ryleh position appears bleak.

Let me know who ends up with what with respect to GM. I actually would prefer GM get his race back, and Grayz take over pythium so we have players that WANT to be in the game.

But I also do not want grayz forced out as he was gracious to take over Arcos when he was needed. In any event the 3 of you involved with that can work it out. All I ask is to be informed if players change races.

[Xietor]

Player needed for MA Oceania in the Big Game. They have an "ok" position. I have been at war with them the entire game but I no longer border them. So i would rather have a player for them, then another race set to ai.

Anyone interested in playing MA Oceania contact Velusion for PW.

[Xietor]

Can whoever is playing the Ryleh please post on the thread.

Thank You.

[Xietor]

I thought it well known that capturing a dark knight from Bogus' Group and scripting his attack commander command to other units is not allowable. But some players who, by reputation at least, are considered good think it is acceptable. I want to make it crystal clear that this "tactic" is a clear exploit and it is cheating. If anyone uses this "tactic" in this game, they will be replaced or their race set to AI.

Additionally, as this game is hosted on the Llamaserver, Llamabeast has also stated that this "tactic" is cheating and illegal on any game hosted on his server. So its use is doubly damned in this game.

If this action occurs and is denied by the suspected player, I will have llamabeast take a look at the player's turn and determine if it was or was not done.

[Tuidjy]

I just had my encounter with the R'lyeh Epic hero. That was a nasty customer.
I was lucky that he was used against my crack squad of angels, so he had to run
into someone who can handle him. Actually, he faced my epic hero, and lost in
a very close fight. I cannot imagine many other commanders who could have won.

I just had another major victory against R'lyeh, so I think it is a good time to
bow out. I will be replaced by Nick, and he will abide by all treaties that I
have. We will be contacting everyone I've interacted with, to go through terms.
We will switch in a turn or two, to insure smooth transition.

Thanks for the game guys, it was a major learning experience! And this is a
great mod... I thought about it, and I will even say that it is mostly balanced.
It skews the gameplay in a direction I am not sure I like, but it's fun. I am
just not one for big games. I wish I would remember this, and stop entering them.

[Xietor]

Thx for helping test the mod! And I am glad you like it.

Had I not played Shinuyama, and had i not been attacked by Vanheim then Makacha, I would have tried to shorten your game experience. /evil grin.

It is best to kill Pythium early, because it is near impossible to kill them late. Once the angels start flying all over, and the clam economy gets pumping, Pythium is uniquely hard to beat. Which is why they are my number 1 choice for top mp race in the MA.

But you also played them exceptionally well. And I think you would be a tough out with most races-though no one is a tough out with Ulm.

Good luck in your future games.

[LoloMo]

Good Luck Tuidjy, and welcome, Nick!

[llamabeast]

At Tuidjy's request I've just changed Pythium's e-mail address to Nikolai's.

[Xietor]

3.10 patch is released. Upgrade to 3.10.

LLamabeast likely will upgrade the server to 3.10 soon.

[Nikolai]

Hello guys! I am taking Pythium, and at war with R'lyeh. I was told the war's because they took land from someone Peter had beated first without R'lyeh.

I know R'lyeh is fighting others, so I will not be applying the same rules like Peter. I'm pacifist :-)

[Xietor]

Welcome aboard Nik!

I am going to delay the hosting 24 hours due to patch, new player, and LLamaserver madness! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Xietor]

Ryleh set himself to AI.

Arcos has staled the last 2 turns, and agartha is pounding him.

GM are you out there?

[Tuidjy]

R'lyeh was soundly trashed the last turn I played, losing his hero, a few assassins,
and his major army with twenty mages and forty mindblasters. It only makes sense for
him to set himself to AI.

[Xietor]

I asked Llamabeast to set arcos to AI, but i did not hear back from him. And they staled again.

It is regrettable to me arcos has been abandoned as I will never get any feedback on its epic hero(: In the future if you lose interest in the game, please either find a sub or set yourself to AI.

It is not easy for someone else to set you to AI. While Llamabeast can do it, he should never have to do it.

[Xietor]

Arcos has been set to AI by Llamabeast-prepare to defend yourself if you border them.

[Xietor]

The Epic Heroes Game is now in the end phase.

Three powers remain:

1. Pythium(Angels/master enslave ftw)
2. Shinuyama(Epic Hero deceased).
3. Agartha(umbrals)

Atlantis is still alive, but are not a major power. Mictlan is holed up in his last castle, and will not go down without a fight.

Ryleh and Arcos are both on AI and their empires are almost
defeated-the former by Pythium, the latter by Agartha.

[Nikolai]

R'lyeh massacred most of my swimmers last turn. I have been playing hit and run, and "run" is an essensial side of that, special against paralyze. This last stall... I would say killed me, but REALLY put me back.

Now I start taking turns early...

[Xietor]

You have plenty of time to regroup Nik.

War has reared its ugly haad. Shinuyama has launched an assault on Agaratha. And 2 of the titans will square off for an epic war.

* As an aside, we are on turn 75 and all players remaining are active. No one staled last turn. My hat is especially off to Dr. P who has taken over 2 races and played them skillfully and well even though both positions were not winning ones.

Dr. P softened me up considerably for Agartha.

[Nikolai]

I am getting totally killed by R'lyeh. Peter said it was much dead, and played by AI. Is that true? That nation of R'lyeh is controlled by AI?

Don't spare me, I can handle truth :-)

[LoloMo]

Excellent first strike by Shinuyama against Agartha. We have been awakened.

[Xietor]

"Don't spare me, I can handle truth :-)"

You want the truth? "You can't handle the truth." Col. Jessep.


Joking aside, Arcos and Ryleh are both on AI. If you hit "statistics" then "pretenders" in game, it shows what races are "human" and which are "AI."

[Xietor]

LLamaserver is acting up and not accepting turns.

We are now in crunch time and I do not want anyone to stale so I am delaying the host by 24 hours.

Llamabeast is taking a week off from the internet(i suspect must be romance involved), so it may take a bit to get fixed.
Have no fear i will delay hosting so everyone has time to complete a turn.

[Tuidjy]

Guys, Nick will not be available for a while. I would prefer NOT to take Pythium
back. On Monday, I will know whether he will be back in the saddle. If you can
delay the game 'till later than 1700 Pacific on Monday, the turn will be taken
by him or by me.

[Xietor]

I already delayed it by 24 hours-so i think it will host tuesday morning instead of monday morning as scheduled.

If the llamaserver is not fixed for a week-then the game will be delayed a week. We obviously cannot proceed until it is fixed.

[LoloMo]

I could use the extra time too.

[Xietor]

I have tried to delay it, but it appears it is not working(:

We may all stale except Dr. P who wisely got his turn done early.

[Xietor]

Do your turns. LLamaserver is up and running and I successfully delayed the host of the game for 24 hours.

[LoloMo]

Hi, I won't be home at the usual time, still at work and won't be able to upload my turn in time. Can we delay hosting by 6 hours? Thanks.

[LoloMo]

Ack, I was too late. Ah well. It looks like Pythium my ally staled also, and that nation's ownership is in question.

Therefore I concede defeat. I will put myself to AI this turn.

Regarding my Epic Hero, the Obsidian Medium, I set him to reseaching for most of the game. After my research was done, I empowered him in death (he started with 2D, I empowered to 4D), and set him to summoning Tartarians.

The other option would have been to set him to forging skull staffs or research skulls early in the game, but I chose to go the umbral route (which requires only 1D path to summon), which sucked up all my death gems and left him with only research duty till late game.

[Xietor]

Lolo-great game. Sorry I missed your post for a 6 hour delay as it certainly would have been granted. We had 72 hours for this turn rather than the typical 48, but I certainly would have delayed it another 24 for you. You have been a stellar player the entire game. As an aside, Pythium did not stale.

You did extremely well with Agartha-making it into the endgame with a race that is extremely vulnerable early in the game. The Epic Hero for Agartha is not as potent a fighter as many of the other races. If I had a free hand I likely would boost him-perhaps starting him at 3d? That would allow him to get to 4d with no empowering(skull staff). Since Agartha is weak early, maybe the Obsidian medium could be given a unique weapon as well?

Do you have any specific suggestions for the Epic Hero? Did you get any Worthy Heroes? Did you encounter any other race's Epic Hero to a degree sufficient to have a comment on him?


I have great respect for you as a player and your umbrals. To be honest, after Dr. P frozen hearted my Epic Hero to death, my main goal is to get this game over expeditiously and tweak the heroes. Then there will be an Epic Heroes II game before the final release of the mod.

It appears the Epic Heroes are a force early, but are just one of many thugs by midgame. Having an epic hero with a thug chassis allows some races to imprison that otherwise would never dare to imprison a pretender.

Thank you for playing Lolomo. And good luck to you in your other MP games.

[LoloMo]

Yup, I went with an awake wyrm to defend against early attacks. I only encountered Arco's Grand Elepantarch and its troop of war elephants, and he is very very tough to take out. Without umbrals it would be impossible I think.

To go with the theme of the other Epic Heroes, Agartha's obsidian statue should be able to function as a thug at the start, which he currently can't. He also can not summon any units, unlike most of the other epic heroes.

The Obsidian Medium wasn't designed to be a thug at all: 0 leadership, move of 3/6, precision of 5, attack only of 10, and never heals.

He does have Fear though, perhaps adding Awe and higher Fear levels would toughen him up without changing the theme of this unit. A stronger unique weapon would certainly help.

Or you can go the other way, and make him able to summon ghostly researchers. These are the ghosts of ancient agarthans ages past, reawakened to tell their story.

[Nikolai]

I managed to get branch through my windshield, and to tie it with a ribbon, my house is in mandatory evacuation zone. I'm staying at Tuidjy's place, and I could play - our plant's closed too. But I made mess out of Pythium, and feel unready for this game. So if Lolomo gives up, so I would.

My bet's Tuidjy wouldn't want to play, but he may change.

[Xietor]

Nik-where on Earth do you live? Why are you in an evacuation zone? I am the one that lives in New Orleans-the King of evacuation zones.

[Nikolai]

San Diego County. I moved one week ago, and now it's in danger of burning. Although they say looks better today for particular area.

Who said California has no seasons?
Fire Flood Earthquakes... and I forget the fourth.

[DrPraetorious]

Hippies. The seasons in California are Fire, Flood, Earthquake and Hippies.

Piece of advice - if you're on a stretch of sandy cliffs (like, say, the ones near UCSD) and you strike up a conversation about someone with a beard and no shirt about the coastal access law, do not then ask them for directions back to street level, because the directions they give you will put you through as much private property as they can manage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Xietor]

I am flying to NY tomorrow(Friday) morning and will not be taking my laptop with me. So I will be out of pocket until Sunday evening. If a situation arises where you need a delay of 24 hours, your only recourse is to email Llamabeast and ask him to delay host.

I have a bench pass and will be on the Rutgers' sidelines as they host WVU this Saturday.

[LoloMo]

The last turn I submitted was to set my nation to AI, I didn't script any orders except that. It seems that my order wasn't accepted. I will try to set myself to AI again.

[Xietor]

Does anyone Object to me declaring the game over? Agartha is AI, Mictlan is going AI, Pythium has staled 2 turns in a row and is going to be put to AI if they stale a 3rd time in a row. Atlantis is the only player left doing his turns now, and he not in a good position.

For those tracking the thread, Arcos, Ryleh, Agartha are all AI, and Dr. P has said he is putting Mictlan to AI. The last Nik posted, he said he(Pythium) was conceding, but he has not actually gone AI.

The score graphs show me with a strong lead(Shinuyama gray line)

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/134bcf6cee2696dc86b633a8ea9a79862g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=1w2iz2z2e0y&thumb=4)

There are no victory conditions set for this game-so if anyone wants to slug it out to the end, I am glad to do so.

[Zoshan]

I as Atlantis will give up if everyone goes AI. Thanks for the game had alot of fun.

[Xietor]

Pythium staled for his 3rd time in a row, and the last human player Atlantis concedes, so I am declaring the game to be officially over on turn 81.

Final thanks to all of the players who helped test the mod. A good bit of effort will go into final tuning the mod before Epic Heroes II.

The game did show me I was far too worried about the impact of the Epic Heroes. None of the Heroes had much of an effect on the game except at the start. And the effect they have at the start is to give a nation more flexibility in pretender design.

Many races that otherwise must take an awake pretender, do not have to do so with an Epic Hero. Some of the Epic Heroes
were not quite up to snuff_Agartha, Atlantis, and Shinuyama.
They will be a bit tougher.

Dr. P has helped convince me that Epic Heroes should be Epic. Epic means game changing. Tien Chi's Epic Hero will get his wings back. The only nerfs will come to assassin Epic Heroes. They will lose their fear. An assassin should have to kill the bodyguards-he should not be able to just scare them off.

This game was a mix of new players, and wily veterans. That made for some mismatches early in the game. I do think GM having to pull out of the game due to real life work issues had a dramatic effect on the game.

GM is the Elephant Master and I doubt they would have been a nonfactor had he remained at the helm. GM was a very tough out in Alpaca-and that was with normal Elephants. With War Elephants trained by the Arcos. Epic Hero, GM would have been a terror.

Dr. P gets a medal for subbing twice after he lost a 1 v 2 war early on to Mictlan and Arcos.

It was a fun game-and hopefully some of this cast at least will return for Epic Heroes Mod II.