Pimp My Pretender

[Novi]

I was wondering - equipping a thug doesn't seem like a challenge, but kitting out an SC? OK, I understand that some things are a must, if you're able to seize them before anyone else does (like Aegis, for example), but what about the rest? The main issue appears to be the weapon, since a Firebrand seems like an insult to your SC... Also, the decision regarding one's headgear and armour are a bit tricky as well, so... What should I pick then? (Suppose my pretender is a human-shaped chap)

[PvK]

He needs a really big bright purple hat...

For an SC, the main issues are being able to not gain fatigue while engaging nearly-endless foes, and being practically invulnerable to non-magical and weak-magical attacks. Having something that kills enemies without any effort is also helpful.

[Tuidjy]

It also depends on whether your pretender has the magic ability to generate at
least one damage dealing aura. Soul Vortex is best, but Breath of Winter and
Fire shield are nothing to sneer at... well, unless you are trying to
inconvenience undead with Breath of Winter :-)

And I definitely do not consider Firebrand an insult to my SCs. Most of my SCs
fall in three categories:

1. Raiders. These wander the enemy rear and avoid combat. They only die to
teleporting squads, and no weapon helps against these. Firebrands/Charcoal
shields all around.

2. Army backbone. These are supported by a dozen of mages, and hundreds of
archers. Once again, they usually deal with chaff. The mages are in charge
of dishing out the hurt. The SCs are supposed to blunt the enemy attack, and
survive, even if they are paralyzed in the process. Charcoal shields for
sure, and often Firebrands... although sometimes I use the second hand slot
for some protection item - the luck sword, a second shield, etc... Note that
Firebrand is also a protection item - 50% fire resistance.

3. SCs killers. These are tailored to the target, and are nearly always
quickened fliers with a weapon in each hand. They rely on crippling a SINGLE
target in the first round with a silly number of attacks. Here the firebrand
would not be the usual choice - but it all depends on the target.

And by the way, I do not think that the Aegis is amongst the top ten artifacts.
Chaff is not what well equipped SCs die to... Mage slayer, now, that's the
real deal. Shows balls, too...

[Ironhawk]

Its hard to say because you dont list what your pretender is. What abilities does it already have? What is it intended to fight?

Just generally speaking, I would equip it with "standard" equipment something like this:

Blood Thorn
Charcoal Shield
Starshine Skullcap
Jade Armor
Flying Boots
AML
Cat Charm (or AMA if its likely to making lots of MR checks)

[Shovah32]

You would use a blood thorn even with the severely weakened life drain?

[HoneyBadger]

Keep your paths in mind, too. If you are able to cast Quickness, lose the Jade Armor and replace with something else. If you've already got fire, just cast fire shield and get a shield of gleaming gold instead-Awe isn't easy. If you don't have astral, then go with a pendant of luck and a wraith crown. If you don't have earth, go with marble boots.

You always want some kind of regeneration, unless your Pretender heals afflictions, or you've got access to healers who do the same thing among your forces. Ring of regeneration is the most obvious choice, but maybe not the best-I'd rather use hydra-skin armor unless my Pretender has immunity to poison, because then you're filling 3 functions with 1 slot-armor, regen, poison resistance.

I try to avoid low levels of astral with my Pretenders anyway, because then you avoid or win magic-duels.

Wraith Crown is an awesome helmet (I think it comes in purple). Slightly better protection than Starshine, doesn't require starting paths, gives you Etherialness, and a whole army of undead!

[Ironhawk]

Shovah32 said:
You would use a blood thorn even with the severely weakened life drain?



Actually I use only living (regen/reinvig) SCs these days as I dont play blood or death too much anymore.

But sure I would use the blood thorn. After all the damage of an anti-troop SC is from his shields, not his weapon. The weapon is just there to keep him from falling over from exhaustion and healing some hp here and there.

[HoneyBadger]

How good is the Scutatae Vol-whatever, the "very powerful" shield that does shock damage?

[Shovah32]

I think its basically a regular tower shield that casts shocking touch once per round if any enemies are in range.

[HoneyBadger]

I was considering suggesting it, since you don't usually hear a lot about it

[Morkilus]

Here I thought it was a lightning version of Charcoal Shield... it seems like a waste for 10 gems if it just zaps one guy once a turn.

[Micah]

Damage output is much lower, yes, but if you need SR or are fighting things with fire resistance it looks a lot better.

There's a reason it's not the first choice shield though.

[HoneyBadger]

It does have good defense/weight/protection overall, but I definitely wouldn't take it over even a lead shield in a lot of cases.

If it's supposed to be "very powerful" then it needs some kind of boost.

[Shovah32]

Making it cast shockwave might be better but it could make it a bit too strong.

[HoneyBadger]

I think it would, actually. If the area were reduced so that it just affected units adjacent to the person holding the shield, it would be ok.

[Novi]

Mmkay, so a raiding SC should cast as many area-affecting spells as possible...

But what about the artifacts, which ones are worth forging/using? Magebane?(I reckon that's its name) Aegis? The thing that enables you to mummify?

And, Ironhawk, why should one use Starshine Skullcap? If you have astral, it won't do you much good, let alone not having it...
And what about Boots of Flying - are they that efficient? OK, I understand they let the SC skip the waves of chaff and attack the core right away but does that turn the tide of battle?

[sum1lost]

starshine gives mr, which is invaluable against things like mind burn and paralyze.

[jutetrea]

Mobility is key for a raiding Melee combatant - both to flee if necessary/possible, hit rearmost if possible, and increase mapmove. Boots of flying/flying carpet.

Depends on what is available, but affects are good

Fire shield (spell, charcoal shield)
ethereal (spell, wraith crown, robe of shadows, boots of planes)
regen (spell, RoRegen, hydra armor, boots of anteaus, lyc amu)
lucky (lucky charm, lucky coin, faithful)
Fear (horror helm, PicusX2, lantern shield, Aegis)
Awe (AoVirtue, gold shield)
Petrification (Aegis, stone sword)
Air shield (spell, silver hauberk, shield of valor)
twist fate
Re-invig (birch boots, AoResilience, caelum's boots, Rainbow armor, boots of messenger, boots of anteaus, girdle, heart of life, krupps)
Resistances
Soul Vortex (spell, bone armor)
BoWinter (spell, Rime Hauberk)
Blood Vengeance (spell, Flesh Ward)

Basic stat increases are good
Str (Precious, PicusX2, Barrier, boots of str, brimstone boots, bear claw, girdle, lyc amu)
Atk (RoWarrior, Precious, summit, burning pearl)
Def (cat, CoD (chain of displacement, summit, bracers of prot, krupps)
Prot (spell, invuln robe, marble boots/armor, CoD, bracers of prot, krupps)
MR (spell, skullcap, Anti-M, mage bane, blood armor, lead shield, Rainbow Armor)


If most others are covered, extra attacks are good
Jade Armor
Dimensional Rod
Boots of quickness
stone birds
astral serpent
Dancing trident
Spirit helm
Horned helm
chi boots

Then there's the gift of kurgi

Incomplete list

[sum1lost]

I'm not sure if she qualifies as a SC, but if you can get an erinye (or however you spell it), it isn't that hard to trick her out well enough to take apart just about any army you might face.

She already has ethreal, flying, and fear, after all.

[Taqwus]

Magebane's nice in a duel-type situation, or when facing MR attacks. It'll eventually attract horrors, but those are essentially duels, and the MR boost gives you improved survival odds. By itself, it's not a mass-slaughter item the way that, say, Sun Slayer.

Aegis is very, very nice. Good stats, lethal shield -- no resists 'tho.

Amon Hotep gives awe, MR boost, and prot 25 without adding to your encumberance -- very nice if you have something else in mind for the body slot, like a Robe of Shadows, Bone Armor, Flesh Ward et al. It's also cursed, so think before you wear.

Blood Vengeance + Luck might save your bacon for when you finally meet a mage who lands Gifts from Heaven on you, or casts Life for a Life. Even this won't help against Banish to Inferno 'tho.

/musing: Soul Drain + strong death blessing ?

[PvK]

Practically every Artifact is worth forging, though not all are good for a Super-Combatant.

[Ironhawk]

My fav SC artifact is probably the Stone Sword. Aegis is better of course but I just love how the stone sword effects the unit wielding it, as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PvK]

Ya, the Stone Sword is awesome... until your wielder joins the rubble.

[sum1lost]

Thankfully, my stonesword wielder has a 31 mr by the time he enters battle...

[Meglobob]

I did not read the description to the stone sword closely enough when I equipped my destroyer of worlds with it. He was awesome for half a dozen battles then is luck run out, he only had MR 20'ish. Talk about dicing with death... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Novi]

=)

Has anyone ever used that sickle as a weapon (The Sickle Whose Crop Is Pain, methinks)? Or that two-handed scythe (forgot its name)?

[HoneyBadger]

What exactly does the Ankh do? I've forged it before, but I couldn't figure out what it was for, exactly.

[sum1lost]

The sickle is a bad weapon, but great to get death gems.

The two handed scythe is lethal, but since it lowers defense,your guy can get beat badly. Still, you can take out several squares a turn with that thing (immense damage+aoe), and combined with the level of fear it gets you, you generally rout enemies before they get a chance to hurt you. If you use it, make sure the guy is well protected. (devatas or one of the other 3-4 handed guys can wield it safely, by combining it with the barrier or golden shield for protection.)

The ankh seems to be without merit, except that when your men die, they become soulless.

[jutetrea]

The ankh gives an auto battlefield spell. If a unit under your command dies, it rises again as a soulless. Nice for extending that big army deathmarch. They're weak, but its extra troops.

When they die a second time they're gone methinks.

I've not used the sickle, but read a post where a guy used a wraith lord (i think) casting shadow blast. The deaths from shadow blasts still caused gems to appear apparently..or it was SB, SB attack and he refilled that way. Dunno.

edit: battlefield spell - life after death, only affects living.

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks for the information, jutetrea

[PvK]

The Sickle has fairly good weapon stats, and can be used with a shield.

The Ankh also protects the bearer. You can also just have some commander in the rear carry it to big battles.

[SlipperyJim]

The Sickle Whose Crop Is Pain works well as a Thug weapon, and the free death gems are a nice bonus. However, I think it's a bit underpowered as a SC weapon.

How about The Sharpest Tooth? It seems like a great weapon for an assassin or a Thug, but maybe not for a SC....

[Olive]

jutetrea said:
I've not used the sickle, but read a post where a guy used a wraith lord (i think) casting shadow blast. The deaths from shadow blasts still caused gems to appear apparently..or it was SB, SB attack and he refilled that way. Dunno.



I thought gems harvesting worked only for units killed with the sickle ? At least it doesn't work while trampling.

[Taqwus]

I'm a bit fond of the 'Firbolg Sniper with Vision's Foe and Eye of Aiming' combination, as a twisted joke, but that requires a rather diverse set of magics (nature for Awaken Sleeper, earth/death for Vision's foe, air for Eye if memory serves... and water, if you want boots of quickness for faster reloading) -- this was far easier to pull off before D3's restricted randoms.

[MaxWilson]

RE: the sickle

Yes, so the Wraith Lord in question was apparently scripted to <Soul Vortex, attack, Shadow Blast, attack, Shadow Blast, attack rearmost> or something similar, with the logic being that with boots of flight, an <attack> would move right into the thick of the enemy for a point-blank Shadow Blast, and that ending on "attack" meant the Wraith Lord would collect enough gems to repeat the sequence next turn.

I'm a little leary, myself, of letting anyone cast gem-hungry spells before going into melee, since they have such high fatigue costs (the Wraith Lord is going to be taking 40+ fatigue from each casting even with maximum death gems), but I guess it must have worked out okay.

-Max

[jutetrea]

I haven't got to a point in an SP game to test it out yet, but if anyone else does i'd like to hear the verdict. Sounds good in theory....