New Forum Member Here

[dave74]

Hello Guys,

I am a longtime PC strategy gamer and have lurked on here a while, unsure wether to buy dominions 3 or not. Anyway after hearing how good it was i have ordered it.

I d/l the demo yesterday and although i am unsure what i am doing i think this might be the game ive wanted to play for years!!!

So, the point of my post - if i got a confirmation of my order being dispatched on the 21st, when do you think i will get delivery? (i am in the uk by the way)

Also are there any good aar's to read for newbies, there do not seem many on this forum.

thanks guys

dave

[Gandalf Parker]

Welcome. I think you will find it lasts long enough to make the cost worthwhile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Each dominions has lasted for years on my machines.

Extensive AARs I think are an "old age" thing for games. When playing the game starts getting old then people get more creative about it. There are some in the AAR subforum but you will also see miniAARs in some of the threads for the longer games in the MP forum.

[dave74]

Well i am still awaiting arrival of my copy of the game. While i wait i was wondering if someone could answer a few points for me -

1) Are there limits on army size or what is the largest army you have had?

2) Is there a turn limit to the game?

3) How long does a game take to play? i can image this being weeks, which is no problem, i like games that are immersive.

4) How good is the ai?

Thanks


Dave

[thejeff]

1) There's no limit on army size. There are limits on the total number of units. They are high, but reachable in big games - particularly with Late Age Ermor and R'lyeh since they spawn many free weak troops.

2) No turn limit.

3) Easily months, for large MP games. Late game turns can take hours.

4) Decent at early game. It'll will give you a challenge for awhile, especially on the harder settings. Has trouble countering a lot of specialized strategies, as more options open up in the later game. I tend to play smaller SP games to minimize the AI's weaknesses and to minimize the late-game micromanagement.

[CUnknown]

Hi!

1) There are no limits to your army size per se, but there are sort of practical limits. There's also a global limit on the number of units, but I don't think you were asking about that. That limit doesn't effect small games at all, it's just a limit for those monster maps.

Anyway, you can have as big an army as you can afford in terms of upkeep (every unit you buy with gold has upkeep in gold per turn, although summoned units usually don't have any upkeep). Also, your army has to be able to eat, so having too many soliders in one place is also difficult for that reason.

2) No, there's no turn limit. But, games don't normally last more than 100 turns or so, many are over by turn 60-70. Of course this depends on map size and conditions. This isn't one of those games that last 300 turns or anything. Which I definitely like about it. It has deep strategy, but is usually managable in terms of micromanagement and time commitment.

3) (I am assuming you are talking about multiplayer here) I like taking a turn a day or so. Some games have 48 or 72 hour turn times, but other people play blitz games that are over in maybe 5 hours. As far as single player, you can normally finish a game in 2-4 sittings or so. I mean assuming you play more than like 30 min a sitting.

4) The AI as far as being an actual enemy player pretty much sucks. There are just too many options and the computer can't keep up with human strategies. But, I am very impressed with the combat AI relative to dominions 2. In dominions 2, the computer chose all kinds of funky spells and targets for you, very suboptimal. But it seems that a lot of work has been done getting the targeting right during battles, and because of the lack of tactical combat control by players, that's very important.

[Gandalf Parker]

1) Not for an army as far as I know. There is a limit to the game itself but its huge. We have one game now that is running with over 60 players which is kindof hoping to reach the limit.

2) No turn limit. The closest thing to that irritation is that if you beat the last AI then the game will declare you a winner and quit. Some have wanted the game to let them continue playing at that point. If you want to save a game and go back into it to check things later (which many people do) then beware of winning that last battle.

3) Thats hard to say since very few people actually play the game to finish. A game is usually decided long before that by either deciding that you cannot win, or that you have technically already won. After that the answer becomes "there is a huge range". Ive seen 2 player blitz games (turns are processed as fast as they arrive and both players play until the end) last for one day. And I have seen large-map many AI or player games last more than a year.

About the only definitive answer I can give is that in the small games I host on my server (4 players on 50 province maps) the games average 60 turns.

4) Of course its not up to human players. But other than that I feel it does the job well. Its challenging, and offers some variety that will take you awhile to figure out its exploitable weaknesses. That coupled with the many variations you can set the game to will keep challeneged for the time it takes you to play all of the nations and decide which one most fits your playing style before you take a stab at multiplayer. And if you are someone who prefers solo play like I do then it will still be well beyond most games, and well worth the cost of this one. Thats a pretty rare level of AI for a game that is not designed for solo play.

[Saulot]

1) I recall there being issues with very large armies storming a castle. But we're talking in the thousands range. That just isn't very likely to occur unless you're playing Ermor. For all practical purposes it just isn't a problem.

2) Already has been answered.

3) Like some others in this thread, I've played games that have lasted months, and a few which I finished in one night.

4) The AI is actually quite reasonable considering the scope of the game, which is huge, and has more aspects and situations than probably any other computer game, ever. There will be various occasions where the AI will do something suboptimal or you're wonder why it did that. You can console yourself by thinking that not every opponent you will face in dominions has to be a tactical or strategic genius. On the other hand, if Dominions possessed a vicious and powerful AI on the scale of how strong Deep Blue is for Chess, I imagine a lot of players would no longer have fun and stop out of frustration. Anyway... If/When you start beating the Impossible AIs, you can then do some things to improve the challenge.

By no means a comprehensive list:
Personally, for example, I use and suggest a handicap of never hiring mercenaries.
Another suggestion is to play with a lower resource setting (it helps the AI spend more on it's national troops and less on independents)
Yet another suggestion to take that last idea a step further, is to play on a no-independent map, or use the no-indep. mod.
Furthermore, you can start a game, and just not do anything for the first 5 turns. (Or 10, or even 20.)
Finally, one can always mod the game, nations, units, spells, or maps to give certain advantages to the AI, or simply work better to fit it's style of play.

SuperSecret Tigerdragon DeluxeEdition Suggestion: You could always play against other humans. Though I realize that this is outside the scope of the topic, it just had to be included. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[dave74]

Thanks for all the answers guys.

One more question - i read somewhere that the manual is a good read. How would you rate it?

[Edi]

Fairly essential if you have never played a Dominions game before and especially if you are interested in the mechanics. The turn resolution order for different kinds of commands is also pretty illuminating.

[Gandalf Parker]

It is an above average manual. Almost 300 pages. Includes a tutorial, screen shots, charts, suggested god builds and strategies to help you get started. One of the things that I think made it great is that it was written by a player, not the programmer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
And the smartest thing they did was making it spiral bound so it lays flat when Im trying to read and play at the same time.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah the manual is good. And this is from someone who never uses manuals. Even to an experienced player it is still a valuable reference

[Salamander8]

The manual is very nice. I use it to plan my research based on the spells and items I want/need all the time. I can't eat a meal at home without reading something, so it's a common dinnertime piece of reading material. I also recommend Edi's spreadsheets to get info on sites, the expansion nations, etc, that are not in the manual.

[Shovah32]

Its also nicer than most manuals, having a fairly solid cover and being ring-bound.

[dave74]

So, which one of you is the author of the manual??

[Gandalf Parker]

The guy that put it together is Bruce Geryk.
But much of the material was a collaboration of everyone in the beta test group which includes the developers and a number of people that have answered in this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[atul]

Heh, I just yesterday read a proposed tactic for MA Jotunheim from the manual's nations chapter, and thought that the proposition had Gandalf Parker written all over it, with the flood gate analogy and all.

Bruce Geryk at least used to post here every now and then, I don't remember his nick anymore though.

[RamsHead]

ceremony I think.

[lch]

atul said:
Bruce Geryk at least used to post here every now and then, I don't remember his nick anymore though.


He posted some weeks ago and said that he's going to correct the mistakes in the current manual for a new print run, didn't he?

[Sombre]

That could take a while.

[Gandalf Parker]

atul said:
Heh, I just yesterday read a proposed tactic for MA Jotunheim from the manual's nations chapter, and thought that the proposition had Gandalf Parker written all over it, with the flood gate analogy and all.



Yes, and check out the MA Pangaea one also http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[dave74]

GOT THE GAME TODAY!!

I have played the tutorial, now downloading the patch.

Who would you recommend as a good starting race??

[llamabeast]

Ooh... so many choices.

I like Sauromatia. Good cavalry, good archers, decent infantry and nice magic. I think they are quite easy to get a feel for, plus they are very interesting I think.

The military side of things should be fairly intuitive I think. Experiment with positioning your units on the battlefield and getting them working well together.

For the magic, I'd recommend researching up Evocation. Nether bolt is very nice, and all your Enaries can cast it. If you can get up to Shadow Blast and have some gems spare to cast it, that can be devastating.

[Kristoffer O]

And be careful with your hydras, they tend to poison your other troops if not placed at a distance.

[dave74]

Thanks guys,

I am torn at the moment between reading the excellent manual or diving in.

why has it took me so long to find this game!!

[Amhazair]

dave74 said:
why has it took me so long to find this game!!


Heh, I remember that feeling. Enjoy the ride.

[Rytek]

Ulm is a good starter nation. Good infantry and archers. focussed magic paths. Sauromatia has to deal with friendly fire poison and friendly poison aurus and blood hunting.

[llamabeast]

Well I never used the blood hunting anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I don't actually think it's too important for Sauromatia.

As for the hydras - yep, be careful with them. In fact, I ended up just not using them. The nation has no shortage of other good units.

Ulm is good, I just never found it very interesting. But obviously everyone has very different tastes, so that's probably just me.

[Meglobob]

Amhazair said:

dave74 said:
why has it took me so long to find this game!!


Heh, I remember that feeling. Enjoy the ride.



I am still annoyed I missed Dom2.

[dave74]

what is ma man like to play?? i'm reading the different nations now and this one seems like a more basic one to start with?

[llamabeast]

MA Man is nice too. I think they are very likable, kind of an Arthurian England theme. Yep, I would say they would be good for a new player.

Oh - a magical hint for Man - I would say try to research Wooden Warriors, in Alteration. That's a nice spell. Also lightning spells for your crones (Evocation).

(I thought it might be useful to have a target spell or two for each nation because the list of spells can initially be a bit daunting, till you get a feel for it).

[Fate]

One hint that took me a while to learn but really helps:

Always recruit mages. If n is the number of mages you have, the number you want is n + 1.

I would say play a little as nations like Ulm and Man, then try LA Ermor for a while (it gives you more of a feeling for how you can "break" the rules), then choose whichever nation sounds most interesting.

Don't worry about finishing games vs. the AI at first. If you are losing, or you aren't doing so well, restart as another nation/god (though it is hard to feel better than when you almost lose and come back).

This is all tenuous, because I am (relatively) new as well. All the nations are incredibly different, and you will probably find out what you're good at and bad at very quickly (not that that should affect how you play, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif ).

I hope you like the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

I usually recommend Ulm. They are very basic. Their bonuses tend toward weapons and armor, and making magic weapons/armor. Playing them is pretty straightforward. It will let you get a handle on the menus and hotkeys. Altho Man would seem to be the basic nation, its not. There is alot of specialized units and magic there.

[dave74]

Been playing & reading the manual all day, first game as ma man. I used a map wih 200 provinces which is a bit silly for my first game. I ended up in a war with Jotunheim, which i am winning, but there are that many provinces im going to start again on a smaller map.

Brilliant game.

What are considered the best settings for starting gold, supplies and resources?? i played with higher on each in my first game because i like large armies.

[Gandalf Parker]

the problem with that is that it also boosts the AIs and you can get rushed. Try turning up the indepents also which helps to hold back the AI since you are probably smarter about who to attack and who not to.