REAL NEW BUG-- Iron Will casting removes blessings

[NTJedi]

I've stumbled upon an unusual bug where my SC is wearing the shroud of the saint armor and it works as expected until he casts 'iron will' during battle which then causes him to lose all his blessings.
Map files are too large to attach to this website... here's where the saved game and map files can be downloaded:
http://www.mediafire.com/?591tnzjd0xx
Watch the battle from the province called Glade Woods. /threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif

[lch]

My example of using www.mediafire.com (http://www.mediafire.com) seems to have been a success around the Mods/Maps forum.

[Valandil]

That is rather odd... Have you tried with armor of virute, which also gives blessing? Or, for that matter, and ordinary bless spell?

[NTJedi]

lch said:
My example of using www.mediafire.com (http://www.mediafire.com) seems to have been a success around the Mods/Maps forum.


Thanks this will work. Download link is listed at the bottom of this post and within the original post.


Valandil said:
That is rather odd... Have you tried with armor of virute, which also gives blessing? Or, for that matter, and ordinary bless spell?



I haven't had time to test the armor of virtue or using the ordinary bless, however if you examine the battle in the province called Glade Wood you'll see the IronWill casting cause his blessings to vanish.

Here's the link for downloading the map and the save game. Some SP gamers might enjoy playing the map, but you have to play as Vanheim in early age.
http://www.mediafire.com/?591tnzjd0xx

[NTJedi]

Bumping so the developers are aware and it gets added to the bug thread.

[MaxWilson]

Bug thread says "# SPELL Iron Will removes blessing from Shroud of the Battle Saint when cast. Tested on a non-sacred unit, not tested on sacred units and not tested on spell-blessed sacred units. Discussion thread here". FYI, it does not happen to spell-blessed sacred units or Shroud-wearing sacred units. (Tested on E2 Adonim.)

-Max

[Edi]

Thanks for the additional testing, Max. I'll update the shortlist entry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[MaxWilson]

I can also confirm NTJedi's report that it can be triggered by Ironskin as well as Iron Will. (Tested w/ E4 Tart Cyclops.)

-Max

[Edi]

Hmm, then it is more probably a bug with the item and not the spells. I'll be moving the entry to a different place later.

[Renojustin]

Possibly any spell that duplicates part of the bless gained while wearing the Shroud for that nation setup will remove the bless effects.

[Edi]

Thanks, that's a useful bit of info.

[Psycho]

Shroud doesn't always work like it should even without casting any spells. I have a W9S9 bless and a Tartarian wearing a shroud, but he doesn't have twist fate on him, although he has +4 defense from water bless (don't know about quickness part of the bless, because he's wearing boots). I would attach the file, but it's an MP game, so I can't.

[Edi]

Send the file to the Illwinter info address (info at illwinter dot com) and detail the problem. Reference the shortlist entry for the item as well.

[analytic_kernel]

Shroud doesn't always work like it should even without casting any spells. I have a W9S9 bless and a Tartarian wearing a shroud, but he doesn't have twist fate on him, although he has +4 defense from water bless (don't know about quickness part of the bless, because he's wearing boots). I would attach the file, but it's an MP game, so I can't.

Hi,

Was there ever a follow-up on this? I am seeing the same thing with a S9 pretender. My prophet shows Twist Fate, but a mage with the shroud (#54) does not. Playing version 3.21 (Nov 5 2008 19:32:23).

I searched the bug discussion and the short list of bugs, but maybe I am overlooking something....

[vfb]

You'll see Twist Fate appear on your Shrouded unit in the following turn. The icon just doesn't show up in the current turn.

[Psycho]

I didn't send the files to Illwinter. But, if I remember correctly, the case was that the Tartarian (and any other SCs I had) didn't get twist fate when I put the shroud on him, but after a turn of wearing the shroud the twist fate icon appeared. I don't know if this means that the twist fate effect wasn't up, or that just the icon didn't appear.

[archaeolept]

there have traditionally been issues w/ when the twist fate due to shroud is added. It is unclear whether it is just an issue w/ the icon, but I don't believe so. I think twist of fate from a shroud (or from being prophetized) often needs to be reset by going into battle.

The main bug, of iron will or ironskin negating a bless, is new. It likely does have to do w/ it having the same effect as the bless in question. Does casting earthpower negate the fatigue portion of the earth bless from a shroud?

[JimMorrison]

I didn't send the files to Illwinter. But, if I remember correctly, the case was that the Tartarian (and any other SCs I had) didn't get twist fate when I put the shroud on him, but after a turn of wearing the shroud the twist fate icon appeared. I don't know if this means that the twist fate effect wasn't up, or that just the icon didn't appear.

Twist Fate is refreshed on casting of appropriate spell, or during one of the magic phases of turn resolution. I'm sure this is to avoid some sort of potential exploit. Regardless, it is WAD, and it should appear the next turn without fail (unless it absorbs a Seeking Arrow or something, then you still won't see it, but it will have saved you!).

[analytic_kernel]

Regardless, it is WAD, and it should appear the next turn without fail (unless it absorbs a Seeking Arrow or something, then you still won't see it, but it will have saved you!).

Ah, it does absorb non-battlefield damage. That is one of the things I was hoping (but not actually expecting) to get out of the bless. I'm glad the IW crew pays attention to such details. Thanks for the confirmation.

[JimMorrison]

Regardless, it is WAD, and it should appear the next turn without fail (unless it absorbs a Seeking Arrow or something, then you still won't see it, but it will have saved you!).

Ah, it does absorb non-battlefield damage. That is one of the things I was hoping (but not actually expecting) to get out of the bless. I'm glad the IW crew pays attention to such details. Thanks for the confirmation.

Yes, just remember that normally Sacred troops must be Blessed in combat, so only your Prophet, and anyone wearing a Shroud will be protected outside of combat.

[NTJedi]

Back to the original topic... I believe this bug still exists and can be shockingly painful. Maybe it'll get attention soon from Illwinter if we combine our astral gems. :)

[Illuminated One]

Twist Fate is refreshed on casting of appropriate spell, or during one of the magic phases of turn resolution. I'm sure this is to avoid some sort of potential exploit. Regardless, it is WAD, and it should appear the next turn without fail (unless it absorbs a Seeking Arrow or something, then you still won't see it, but it will have saved you!).

Ah, it does absorb non-battlefield damage. That is one of the things I was hoping (but not actually expecting) to get out of the bless. I'm glad the IW crew pays attention to such details. Thanks for the confirmation.

I'm not quite sure if that is not buggy though.
Things I noticed (in a game with a S9 blessing, lots of shrouds and the enemy has Wrath of God up):

1.) When you use transformation and the mage looses the body slot and thus the shroud the twist fate symbol stays.
2.) When you take items from the shroud wearer, for example a dwarven hammer, the twist fate symbol goes away.
3.) One mage with the shroud got a nasty affliction this turn.
There was neither an attack nor a disease spreading spell / unit report and he is not old age. The only explanation I can see is that he was hit by WoG and Twist Fate didn't stop it.

And a quick test confirmed:

4.) If you have someone who is carrying a shroud, take an item from him and someone casts seeking arrow on him he dies.

This probably means that twist fate is aplied after the magic/globals phase. If you use it you to protect your mages you must not take anything from them or the shroud is worthless.
Hmm, kind of sucks I've spend a fortune on them and don't have a dwarven hammer for everyone. :re:

[vfb]

...
And a quick test confirmed:

4.) If you have someone who is carrying a shroud, take an item from him and someone casts seeking arrow on him he dies.

This probably means that twist fate is aplied after the magic/globals phase. If you use it you to protect your mages you must not take anything from them or the shroud is worthless.
Hmm, kind of sucks I've spend a fortune on them and don't have a dwarven hammer for everyone. :re:

Thanks for testing this.

Twist Fate is probably applied in phase 17, "Magic Items". That's after all rituals and even after all combat, except sneak discovery.

[lch]

I would think that "Twist Fate" only works during combat and not during the magic phase, anyway. I could be wrong about that though, no idea how it is being realized.

[Illuminated One]

No it does work against rituals as long as you can see the icon.