Dolphin - EA game - restarted

[llamabeast]

I thought it might be good to host a non-newbie game as well as a new crop of newbie games.

Um, I'm a bit vague. Here goes:

Number of players: As many as sign up soonish. Lets assume it'll be a big game.
Map: We'll decide later. Probably not too much space per player - 15ish provinces.
Mods: Worthy Heroes (attached).

Please sign up!

I also need a volunteer to admin the game. This just means postponing hostings and stuff when people ask. I'm trying to not admin any games that I'm not in myself, lest I go crazy.

How to upload your pretender:

- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name, 'Dolphin', in the subject line of your e-mail

Note that you have to post here if you want to play, not just upload a pretender. Otherwise the chupacabra will come and get you.

So far we have:

Abysia - Jazzepi
Agartha - Rytek
Ulm - Micah
Atlantis - Ferrosol
Tir na n'Og - Valerius
Vanheim - davegg
Yomi - Yucky
C'tis - krpeters
R'lyeh - carlosib
Sauromatia - Baalz
Mictlan - Ubercat
Niefelheim - parcelt
Pangaea - Papastoss
Oceania - Digress
Lanka - Sensori

The game status page is at www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) .

[Xox]

Lanka please

[Tyrant]

How about Tamarin?

[GameExtremist]

Arcoscephale.

hmm....what about Sloth?

[Jazzepi]

Absyia for me, kthx!

Jazzepi

[Ubercat]

You seem to like those crowded maps Llamabeast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

How about the South American Sea Lion?
Sea Lion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American_sea_lion)? It's not as catchy, but maybe you could go with Otaria.

[Sensori]

Or more like Caelum. ;p

[Rytek]

Sign me up as Argatha.

[Jazzepi]

I think the game should be called Dolphin.

Jazzepi

[AreWeInsaneYet]

Is that possible for me to enter this game as niefel? :p

[Starshine_Monarch]

Kailasa please.

As for the name, How about Tamarin?

[Micah]

Think I'll give Ulm a go.

[coobe]

atlantis please

[llamabeast]

I think I will go with Dolphin, since it wins the originality prize. I assume there are dolphins around South America. All other suggestions duly noted though, thanks!

[llamabeast]

Just as a general question, what size of games do people like? Myself I find big games exciting, but then later a bit daunting. Getting to the end of a smaller game seems a bit more feasible. So I reckon both kinds of games have their pros and cons.

If people prefer I can make this something like an 8 player game and start another game as an overflow. What do you think?

[Ubercat]

llamabeast said:
Just as a general question, what size of games do people like? Myself I find big games exciting, but then later a bit daunting. Getting to the end of a smaller game seems a bit more feasible. So I reckon both kinds of games have their pros and cons.

If people prefer I can make this something like an 8 player game and start another game as an overflow. What do you think?



I'd like to see a large game with enough room for players to survive early game rushes. Crowded maps always seem to give positions like Arco and Caelum an advantage. They just crank out elephants. I was wiped out in Capybara by Arco. At one point I saw he had a 110 unit army which was mostly elephants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif In Armadillo, Caelum nailed me with elephants.

[Xox]

Good news guys Lanka is now available again in this game.

I have to withdraw as I am sticking to strictly network games and this will be pbem, though a sort of automated pbem which is kind of in between a network and pbem game.

[Ferrosol]

count me in as sauromatia

[Valerius]

Tir na n'Og, please.

[davegg]

can i play Vanheim?

[Meglobob]

Helheim for me.

[Yucky]

I'd like to give Yomi a try in this game.

[llamabeast]

Cool, I've listed you all.

I thought I might as well make it so you can start uploading pretenders. Here's how (I'll add this to the first post too):

- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name, 'Dolphin', in the subject line of your e-mail

[krpeters]

OK, I'm claiming C'tis, beware my hordes of lizard critters!

[llamabeast]

I suggest we go for a couple more players, and play on "Glory of the Gods (multiplayer)", which I think is a nice map.

[Starshine_Monarch]

I think it needs to be fixed though. One of the sea provinces in the eastern lake isn't connected to the other sea provinvces. I was playing a SP game one time on that and poor Oceania's capital got stuck there, the only adjoining provinces were land provinces last time I clicked on it. 40 some turns in and I was wondering why the hell they only had one province still.

[coobe]

i would like to switch from atlantis to lanka then please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Are you sure? I'll fix the map. We'll need a couple of water nations I think.

[coobe]

yeah im sure, i think i suck to much with underwater nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Reverend Zombie]

What's the hosting schedule going to be like?

I'd like to give Oceania another try.

[llamabeast]

24 hour quickhost, at least until a fair way into the game.

[Reverend Zombie]

llamabeast said:
24 hour quickhost, at least until a fair way into the game.



A killing pace for me. I relinquish claim to Oceania.

Oceania is open.

[llamabeast]

Pity, okay I've removed you.

[Yucky]

I'm willing to switch to any of the water nations if someone wants to join as Yomi.

[Ferrosol]

i am willing to switch to atlantis if you want more water nations

[carlosib]

I'll like to join as R'lyeh if possible.

[tibbs]

NM

[llamabeast]

Okay, having arbitrarily chosen to switch Ferrosol to Atlantis, I think we're full and ready to go. Send in your pretenders, guys (those of you who haven't already, that is).

[llamabeast]

Oh, due to a tragic counting failure I thought we had 16 players, not 14. Well, I guess it doesn't make much difference but I think I will reopen the game, until all the pretenders are in at least.

[krpeters]

Hmmm, ok, so what is this "Worthy Heroes" thing, and what happens if I don't install it?

(The only free rar decompressor I've been able to find is broken, and I have no intention of buying one)

[llamabeast]

It's a mod which just adds more national heroes - generally considered just to add a bit of fun.

Lots of people have problems with the rar file On windows you can download winrar if you can navigate the confusing website, and on linux, well, just typing unrar works for me, although I guess that's a feature of my distro. But all this is hassle you shouldn't have to deal with, and for that reason I present... my zipped version of the mod!

Edit: Actually I've attached it to the first post for ease-of-finding.

[krpeters]

Thanks for the zip!

[krpeters]

Another question... how do I disable it for when I'm playing other multiplayer games? Do I have to keep moving it into and out of the dominions directory, or is there another way to select/deselect it?

[Micah]

Dom mods will automatically turn themselves on and off when you load a game to match the game setting as long as you have the mod installed. The only time you need to worry about manually changing the settings is when you're making a new game/pretender.

The mods can be turned on or off from the preferences menu if you need, no file manipulation needed.

[Baalz]

I'm in...lets see, guess I'll give Sauromatia a try.

[Ferrosol]

ok will reupload with an atlantis pretender

Edit: Pretender sent

[Sensori]

Oh shayt, I made my pretender without the mod, gonna remake and reupload!

[llamabeast]

Doesn't matter actually Sensori - it only makes a difference if the mod in question affects the costs of pretender designs (so that's just the Conceptual Balance mod, to my knowledge).

[llamabeast]

Just waiting on Agartha now.

[Sensori]

Ahh, well, I think I'll still reupload, I think I like this setup a little more.

[Rytek]

OK. I sent in my pretender

[llamabeast]

And we're off! Good luck guys!

[Rytek]

How do I open the file you sent?

[llamabeast]

Sorry, I always forget to explain everything.

- Go to your dominions3/savedgames directory.
- Create a folder called "Dolphin".
- Put the trn file the server sent in there.
- In Dominions, "Play an Existing Game", then choose "Dolphin". Sorted!

[krpeters]

Garrr..

The directions said to load the mod into the C:\Program Files\dominions3 directory; turns out this is wrong and it actually needs to go into the dominions3\mods directory.

Now that that is settled, I'm going to get my lizards going!!!

[llamabeast]

Ooh, which directions? Was it something I wrote?

[Starshine_Monarch]

Unfortunately I am going to be away for a while starting on August 10th. I'll need a replacement player for this game and the Jaguar game until further notice.

[llamabeast]

Er, okay. You should advertise for a replacement player a bit closer to the time then.

Roughly how long will you be away for?

[Starshine_Monarch]

I don't know, maybe 2, 2.5 weeks most likely. I'd rather look for a replacement now, that way I have more time to find one.

[llamabeast]

Okay, fair enough. In that case you should probably make a new thread asking for subs, since no one will look here except people who're already playing.

[Sensori]

Hey llama, why is the timer on first turn 48 hours when you earlier said 24 hours? ;/ It's taking ages, man. AGES! Need more Dominions turns!

Especially since some people seem to have trouble making the first turn already. WHAT'S UP GUYS?

[Rytek]

sorry, im having a hard time making it work. I don't have much time to figure out how. work is taking up 18 hours a day. I didnt realize it was gonna be in this email format.

[Sensori]

Well, uh. It's like this. You should've gotten an email from Llama's turn bot. This email contains an attachment. That attachment is your turn just like the email's subject says. It's a .trn file, meaning it's indeed the actual turn file.

You need to manually create a new folder for the new game, as it's a PBEM rather than a TCP/IP game. You need to make it to this location:

\dominions3\savedgames\[new folder]

It doesn't really matter what the name of the folder is, but it's easier to remember if it's Dolphin. Note that the folder's name only has to match if the game is a TCP/IP game.

Now, place the .trn file in the new folder. For now all that should be in that folder is your fresh .trn file.

Now, if the game don't work (because of a lack of a certain mod), you'll need to get the attachment from the very first post in this thread. You need to place this mod under this (already existing) folder:

\dominions3\mods\

or it won't work.

Now the new PBEM game should work, you should be able to give your password, give orders and finish your turn. A .2h file will be generated by the game to the game folder you created earlier. That's your order file.

What now?

You go to your email client, and just reply regularily (just like you'd reply to any other email) to the post Llama's turn bot sent you. Attach the freshly generated .2h file from the game folder (the [new folder] you just made earlier) to the reply email, and send it in. Sooner or later Llama's turn bot will reply to you, and say the turn was received.

And that's how it works. If it still doesn't work, just say what's the problem.

EDIT:

I figured I'd make a small edit just in case. After turn 1, the parts you need to do are as follows:

1) Get the attached .trn file from llama's turn bot's email which has the newest turn number. You can find out what turn the game's at from the Game status page, to which you can find a link from the first post in this thread.

2) Put it in the folder you created earlier, and overwrite the old .trn file.

3) Do your turn as per usual. As you finish the turn, a new .2h file is generated and it overwrites the old one.

4) Now, open your email program (if you closed it) and again make a reply to the email llama's turn bot sent you.

5) Attach the .2h file once again, and send the email back to llama's turn bot.

Yet again, llama's turn bot will send an email which states the turn has been received. That's all you need to do once you get the thing working. It's that simple.

[llamabeast]

Sensori - thanks very much for posting that, that was very helpful.

To answer your previous question - all my games have 48 hours for the first turn in case of problems, then go back to 24 hours. I kind of forgot to mention it, because it does it automatically.

[Sensori]

Jesus, it looks like three people are going to STALE on TURN 1. Why oh why won't people take their turns... Has to be the first game I've been in where turn 1 takes full time (which is TWICE as long as usual) and people still stale. Especially "funny" when you consider the fact that everyone got the turn in their email automatically.

[llamabeast]

Er yes. Very strange. Particularly since two of them at least I know to be reliable players.

[Baalz]

Sorry, I thought I did mail my turn in but I just got a notice that I'm about to stale. Checking my sent mail history I don't see it so I must have done something silly like not hit send. I'll be able to get home in turn to submit it, so I won't stale.

[Sensori]

So that leaves one person with no reason for being late and a second one with an odd one because llama's instructions have been rather comprehensive. ;p

[llamabeast]

I'm loathe to let people stale on their first turn. I've extended the timer by 12 hours. This is a one-off though.

[Rytek]

grrr im tying, i followed the directions but i click on the dolphin directory nothing comes up. sorry.

[llamabeast]

Rytek, run us through how far you've got. Where have you created the Dolphin directory? Have you put the trn file in there?

You're not running Vista by the way are you? That seems to increase the confusion of this process by a lot.

[Micah]

Did you download the turn file that you got in your email 2 days ago to the Dolphin directory? Which step in the directions did you get to exactly?

[Sensori]

Um, you need to place the attachment (early_agartha.trn in your case) from the email you got from llama's turn bot (it's in the email address you used to send your pretender with - the email address llama's bot uses is different from the one you sent the Pretender to, though) into the Dolphin folder (\dominions3\savedgames\Dolphin as it may be in your case) you created as per the given instructions, so you can play your turn in Dominions 3.

The .2h file is only created after you have played your turn, and that is what you need to send to him in return.

And obviously, please respond to the questions of the earlier fellers.

[Rytek]

ok looks like i have the dolphin file in. now its saying i dont have worthy hero's. I have extracted the files twice into my mod folder.

[llamabeast]

Hey, there is a good support team here eh?

You just need to make sure you have the file heroes1_7.dm (contained in the zip I posted) in the file "dominions3/mods" (not "mod", incidentally, this is a mistake that has come up before).

[Sensori]

You mean the files that are in the first post of this thread? Or like coobe, did you get your Worthy Heroes from some other source, since the Worthy Heroes version we are using is 1.7, not 1.6 or 1.7b?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=537578 <- that is the link to the attachment with the correct Worthy Heroes we are using in this game.

Make sure it is the folder \dominions3\mods\ that you are trying to place it in. Note that you need to extract it directly in the \mods\ folder and not make another folder for it under the \mods\ folder.

[Rytek]

not sure why i am having trouble installing this mod. I am clicking on the link and opening it to the correct folder. I have downloaded mods before

[Sensori]

So you are extracting the compressed .zip file to the \mods\ folder properly? Hmm. That's odd.

You sure you're extracting the files in the .zip file to the \mods\ directory, and not \mods\heroes\ or something? ;p

[llamabeast]

Well the test for whether you're doing the right thing is: go to your mods folder, and see if the heroes1_7.dm folder is in there. If not, you need to, erm, somehow use winzip differently. Fiddle around with it a bit, maybe extract the file to the desktop and then drag it into the mods folder (making sure not to just make a shortcut - which could of course be another source of problems).

[Rytek]

sigh, I have to get to work. I have spent too much time on this already. I am opening a fedex terminal in AZ and there is so much to do. go ahead and stale me, i dont want to hold everyone back. Ill try again tonight when i get home from work. i keep getting the message that i need heroes 1_7.dm. i know i have downloaded mods before. i did it for the sophistry game.
Everyone can just donate a few gold to the peoples of Argatha to compensate for their computer dummy god.

[coobe]

The game says that my turn file is corrupted ???

[Ferrosol]

request a turn resend from the server maybe that will fix it?

[Rytek]

Yay, I got in. Who wants to donate gold to poor Argatha so I can catch up a bit?

Thanks llamabeast for mailing the unzipped heroes file. I think the rar file program was some how messing up my unzip. If that makes sense.

[krpeters]

Hmmm, looks like we're going to have several people stale out again... oh wait, is that 10:40 am or pm GMT? If am, that would be 2:40am EDT, right?

[Micah]

What's with the rampant staling in this game? I think this is the worst I've ever seen, and it's only turn 4...

[Sensori]

If this keeps up, by turn 10, it's just you and me, Micah! ;p

[Starshine_Monarch]

Maybe two games at once i just too much for me, even in it is early. I'd appreciate it if someone would switch Kailasa to AI.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Oh wait, I gotta do it myself, duh.

[Sensori]

Uh, try getting a replacement instead of just AIng yourself right off?

[davegg]

whats the deal with Ulm? It looks like they have grabbed three provinces a turn since the start ofthe game!

[Micah]

0, 2, 3, 3 actually, which you could tell by the graph. Don't worry too much, I'm sure to curl up and die as soon as I meet anything with magic instead of just rolling indies.

[Micah]

Ok, so what're we doing about the full 4th of the nations that seem to have lost interest after the first freaking turn of the game?

Ironic that AWIY posted his "blacklist" thread after he'd started multi-staling this game.

We can set them AI or just restart at this point I suppose, I doubt anyone's going to want to sub in at such a disadvantage.

Thoughts?

[Baalz]

My vote is for restarting, but I'll keep playing if most others want to. Shall we keep the same nations? I still want to try this build....

[Yucky]

Agreed, restarting is best but if not I'll keep playing.

[Jazzepi]

I don't really care either way, but I'd be disappointed with a restart, I like my position.

Jazzepi

[Meglobob]

I vote for a restart too.

Too be honest I should not have joined this game, as I really do not have enough free time to play at the moment.

So Helheim will be available to someone else if they want it.

[Rytek]

Restart would be good but I will also be sticking it out, even with missing the first 3 turns.

[Starshine_Monarch]

A restart is fine with me, but I want out too. Kailasa will be up for grabs as well.

[llamabeast]

Okay, sounds like a restart is in order. I'll do it in a sec.

So, I'm removing pretenders for AWIY, Meglobob and Starshine_Monarch. I will leave the game at the 'waiting for pretenders' stage for a couple of days, so if anyone would like to redesign their pretender they can just send in a new one and it will overwrite the old one. If you want to change nation let me know.

[Micah]

Llama - Coobe (Lanka) also dropped out after the first turn if you could boot him too.

So much for my awesome start...

[llamabeast]

I only realised today that he had dropped out because of what seemed to be a technical issue. I'll see if he's interested in trying to fix it - I PMed him earlier.

PS Sorry about your start! Hope it is repeatable.

[llamabeast]

And we are now accepting new players. Please sign up if you'd like to play. This looks to be a fun game, 16 players (hopefully), EA on the smaller of the Glory of the Gods maps. See the first post for which nations have been taken.

[krpeters]

Well, that's what I get for not paying attention to the forum... I would have been happy to continue (I had a great corner start!) Ah well, let's try it again!

Do I need to reload my pretender, or is C'tis good to go?

[llamabeast]

All the pretenders from the previous start are good to go, assuming you don't want to change them.

[GameExtremist]

Arcoscephale played by me is out, as mentioned in another thread looking for subs in my other game.

Good luck everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ubercat]

I'd like to get in as Mictlan if it's available, since this is an EA game. I'm not prepared to play any other EA positions though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

-Ubercat

[llamabeast]

Hi Ubercat,

You're welcome to play Mictlan. But, I would be careful not to join too many games. It can get stressful down the line when they all start getting time consuming. For me personally, 3 has always been an upper limit, and even 3 I found to be a bit much. Still, if you have oodles of free time, I will be glad to put you down.

[Sensori]

Meh, I'm bowing out of this game. Remove me from the player list, please.

[llamabeast]

Wow, seems our player lineup has been quite severely cut down. Quite a false start for the old dolphin.

I suggest shifting to Cradle of Dominion, then restarting the game pretty soon, with 10 players (11 with Ubercat). Would people be happy with that? It'd be a bit less crowded than originally planned, but I've been playing a 10 player game on Cradle and it has been pretty good.

[parcelt]

Are you still accepting new players for this game?

[llamabeast]

Yep, we are indeed. Check the first post for which nations have already been taken, the rest are available.

[parcelt]

Great, I am in as Niefelheim if that's ok.

[llamabeast]

Indeed it is, please send in a pretender.

Ubercat, I see you already have, so I guess you're playing. Cool, glad to have you.

[llamabeast]

If we get a few more players we'll return to Glory of the Gods.

[Papastoss]

I'll play pangaea

[llamabeast]

Great! Please send in a pretender - instructions in first post.

[Ubercat]

llamabeast said:
If we get a few more players we'll return to Glory of the Gods.



Glory of the Gods has two versions, correct? An enormous one, plus a smaller one meant for multiplayer, IIRC. I say we use GotG anyway.

A few more players would be great, but I'd like to use that (MP) map even if we only have 11-12 people. At least we'd have some room to develop our positions. Armadillo with 22 players was (is?) a cluster you know what. I was dead before I could do anything.

-Ubercat

[Digress]

As I am soon to be finally exterminated by our wonderful host in another game I would like to have a go at Oceania. Will upload pretender soonish.

[llamabeast]

Cool, so we are back up to 15 players. We'll definitely use GotG (MP). I'll start the game up some time today (don't worry Digress, I'll wait for your pretender).

[llamabeast]

And we're off again! 48 hours for the first turn in case of problems (hopefully we can get it done far sooner than that), then onto 24 hour quickhost.

[krpeters]

Hooray! We're playing again!

Wah! My starting position isn't as good this time!

Ah well, my lizard hordes will eat you all anyway, never fear! Bwahahahaha!!!

[Ferrosol]

I am happy my starting positon is better Muahaahaahaa

[llamabeast]

Who's playing Caelum? Can't seem to find the relevant post.

[Sensori]

Me, apparently. You forgot to remove me from the looks of it. :-p I guess I'll play then.

[llamabeast]

Oops. Sorry. Are you happy to play?

[Sensori]

I'm probably going to die from a few games soon(er or later) so sure, why not, I'll play. Just wasn't aiming to play this too right now. ;p

[llamabeast]

Er, okay, cool. Glad to have you! Sorry for the bungle.

[krpeters]

I find it amusing that in 3 of the 4 games I am playing, I am waiting for Vanheim to move.

[llamabeast]

Ubercat has kindly volunteered to admin this game. So, if you have any requests for postponements etc, he will sort that out. Thanks Ubercat!

[Micah]

Looks like Lanka and Arco are out of it...While we could set them to AI I think it might be more useful to just have someone get on them with the master password and crank up their province's PD with all of their nation's gold each turn...I think with a 6 month delay the AI is going to be easier pickings for a player than really buffed out PD anyhow, so at least this way the province won't be a free capture and will take a bit of an army to take over. What do people think?

[Valerius]

I just spotted Arco's capitol and was going to e-mail llamabeast asking him to set them to AI since it seems cheap to just take over a staled nation. I'm fine with Micah's suggestion as well.

[Ferrosol]

hmm seems i managed to stale for some odd reason

[Baalz]

Valerius said:
I just spotted Arco's capitol and was going to e-mail llamabeast asking him to set them to AI since it seems cheap to just take over a staled nation. I'm fine with Micah's suggestion as well.



Indeed, "oh crap I'm next to Lanka! Hey, wait a minute....". I wonder why we've had such issues with people abandoning this game before even taking the first turn.

[llamabeast]

Erm... ahem. *cough*

So, I looked at the first post to see who the naughty stalers were... and they're not there. It seems somehow I left the pretenders there from the false start (could have sworn I'd cleared them all out). So actually noone is staling. Many apologies for the incompetence.

So, I'm not quite sure what to do about them. Whoever captures the capitals with minimal effort will have a big advantage. Should we say they're out of bounds or something? I'm open to suggestions.

[Baalz]

How about we agree not to storm the castles? Default PD is generally tough enough to justify the gold income, particularly if there is guaranteed to be no magic sites. Once anybody else takes that province from the initial player it can be fair game (no unopposed effort then).

[Sensori]

I think another restart is in order. ;p

[Ubercat]

I'd go for a restart. I got boxed into a little corner by my friendly neighbors.

[parcelt]

I'd agree with a restart.

[Jazzepi]

I'd be fine with a restart. I'm right next to one of the people getting set to AI z.z

Jazzepi

[Yucky]

Restart or keep playing with whatever house rules is all acceptable to me.

[Rytek]

restart is fine with me. Or keep going. whichever

[Valerius]

Restart is fine with me as well.

[Ferrosol]

*sigh* guess we are restarting again then

[carlosib]

I go with restart too

[llamabeast]

Ugh, so embarrassing. Okay, we'll restart. I'll just wait to hear if Sensori wants to play again (being as he was in by accident this last time), then I'll restart it.

Sorry for the cock-up guys.

[Baalz]

NP Llama, thanks for your efforts hosting! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sensori]

Hey LLama, is it OK if I change nations? I wanna try Lanka instead of this constant mammothry. ;p

[parcelt]

I second that (Baalz's comment)!

Also, I got the feeling that some people didn't really mind a restart, probably made some starting errors (myself including http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) .....

[llamabeast]

Okay then, I'll reopen the game for pretenders for about 24 hours, then we'll be off again. If you've already sent in a pretender you don't need to resubmit it, but you can send a revised version if you want.

[llamabeast]

It's up again. And I've deleted Caelum, so Sensori you can send in a Lanka pretender.

[Sensori]

OK, done!

[Papastoss]

I would've won that game. I had 2, count-em 2 panii.

Everyone was so done.

[Jazzepi]

Panii?

Jazzepi

[krpeters]

So let's see, last two games I started in a corner, that means this time I'll be smack in the middle of the board, right?

[Sensori]

You know what they say, all toasters toast...

I mean, third time's a charm.

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm in for this as R'Lyeh--just sent my pretender in

[Baalz]

Bob_Loblaw, you're probably not aware but just submitting a pretender for a nation already being played overwrites the other player's pretender. In this case you've just overwritten Carlosib (if we have to restart again I'm gonna scream). If you'd like to join a MP game you need to ask in the thread what nations are available, and get an OK from the game host to join (some games have player limits or house rules on what nations/players/etc can play).

[llamabeast]

Happily my server is cunning, and doesn't let people overwrite pretenders unless they have the same e-mail address, so carlosib's pretender is safe.

However, Bob_Loblaw - you need to check what other nations are in a game before you join. The easiest way to do this for most games is to check the first post, where and I most other hosts list the nations in the game.

I am starting this game in a few hours time. If you get a pretender in for a nation not already taken by then you're very welcome to play. You should be aware though that games generally last several months, and you should expect to be able to play your turn every day. There's not much point playing unless you're happy to make that commitment (and it is bad for other players if someone disappears).

Fear not Baalz - I will try to ensure there is no cause for screaming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

And we're off! Third time lucky I hope.

[carlosib]

Mmmm i've just tried to play turn 1 and unfortunately there are messages saying that everybody has cheated...
That's not so bad, the really ugly thing is that my awaken pretender isn't in my capital!
Does this happen to anyone else? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[carlosib]

Damn...i've just seen Bob_Lobblaw's message...
Llamabeast, can we restart again? i wouldnt like to play with someone else's pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[llamabeast]

Check your pretender carlosib. It's your one, I'm almost certain.

[llamabeast]

Oh sorry, I just saw your previous post - whaaat. Oh man, let me check it.

The Curse of the Dolphin strikes again...

[Baalz]

*screeeeeeeeaaaaam*

[Micah]

Yeah, the game's borked, everyone got cheating messages and all our pretenders are FUBAR'd

[llamabeast]

*hyperventilates*

Yep, okay it's definitely borked. The thing is I've never seen anything like this before and I actually have no clue what's going on. The only mod is worthy heroes. I just did a test restart with no mod at all, and got the same thing. Erm, it's not possible that 13 of you made your pretenders using CBM is it? No, I guess not.

Baalz, you made me laugh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Ooh hang on, I think I may have fixed it...

[Ubercat]

llamabeast said:
Ooh hang on, I think I may have fixed it...



Did you just re-restart the game? I just got a second first turn Email.

[llamabeast]

Yup, I just re-restarted it. Sorry for the silly number of e-mails. Unfortunately it's nearly 3am here and competence levels have been plummeting.

Anyway, I _believe_ it's all fixed and sorted. Let's hope the Curse of the Dolphin has been put to rest.

Baalz, you can stop screaming.

[llamabeast]

Actually can someone confirm the finally sent turn is all good so I can wander off to bed?

[Sensori]

Well, it was all good for me, just sent my .2h back.

[Ubercat]

llamabeast said:
Actually can someone confirm the finally sent turn is all good so I can wander off to bed?



I'll check it now. If you have to go to bed, go ahead. It'll still be here in the morning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Micah]

mine seems alright

[Ubercat]

Appears to be working fine. G'Night.

[llamabeast]

Yep, seems to be fine. Night!

[carlosib]

Yes, both turn and pretender are OK!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Papastoss]

I dunno if this is gonna be a problem but this morning when I dled my turn I mistakenly played the one without the pretender and sent that in. Then I realized that the game had restarted AGAIN (my e-mail grouped them all together), I did that turn and sent that in.

So the second turn I did is really the first turn I wanted done.

[llamabeast]

Nope, not a problem - it will reject the one for the wrong restart. I think it will have sent you a message to that effect.

[Papastoss]

yes it did. cool.

[Ubercat]

Sigh... About an hour after the latest restart I designed a new and improved extra kickass Mictlan pretender build. If we have to restart yet again, DON'T do it before I resubmit my pretender! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

-Ubercat

[Baalz]

Hey llamabeast, thanks for the hosting and most excellent scripting. If you are looking for improvements to put in I was thinking it'd be nice if the server sent you a notice if it rejected your turn for some reason. I'm playing two games on your server and I accidentally sent the wrong 2h file (grabbed it from the other game's directory)...didn't notice anything until I got the notice that I was about to stale.

[Ubercat]

Baalz said:
Hey llamabeast, thanks for the hosting and most excellent scripting. If you are looking for improvements to put in I was thinking it'd be nice if the server sent you a notice if it rejected your turn for some reason. I'm playing two games on your server and I accidentally sent the wrong 2h file (grabbed it from the other game's directory)...didn't notice anything until I got the notice that I was about to stale.



I always get an Email from the server when I mix my turns up.

[llamabeast]

Thanks Baalz, I am indeed always looking for any suggestions people have for improvements. As Ubercat says though, the server does normally reply if there is any problem - the idea is that it will always respond whenever it receives an e-mail, with an appropriate message.

This leads to some silly situations actually. It now gets a fair bit of spam (not an issue as it reads it for me). It replies to the spam saying it couldn't find a 2h file. Often the spammer's address isn't a real address, so the mail server then writes back to say that the message was undeliverable. The llamaserver writes back to this message saying it couldn't find a 2h file. Happily it stops there because the mail server is too clever to write back again.

[Baalz]

llamabeast, I've just got bit by this again and the server definitely didn't send me a notice. The problem is I'm in two games on your server, and I seem prone to accidentally send the wrong game's .2h file back when I'm attaching it to the email (they both seem to host around the same time, so I'm usually taking both turns close together). I just staled on the Allegiance game because I took my turn, then sent in the .2h file for this game which didn't do anything at all. Anyway, like I said, no biggie (it's my own stupid fault) but if you're looking for something to add then that safety net would be helpful for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It would just check that the .2h file name matched the nation listed in the subject line. If it's already supposed to be sending me a message then there's some bug here.

[Rytek]

Ouch, I almost feel bad about ganking Yomi's dragon like that.

[Digress]

I have done the same thing a Baalz more than once and have always got an e-mail back from the llamaserver saying there was a problem.

I have had mail from the llamaserver being classed as spam by my overactive spam filter - its fixed now but it did make life interesting there for a while.

[parcelt]

So where is C'tis? Are you there? I wanted to send an ingame message but couldnt find you on the list. Don't see you on the llamaserver either?

[Micah]

Check the pretenders of the world screen, he (it?) went AI.

[Ferrosol]

Set myself to AI after being pounded to death by ryleth they are pretty damn powerful underwater and i suppose it was just unfortunate that we both started so close together

[Micah]

The forges of Ulm are open and offering items of construction level 4 and lower for approx. base gem cost. PM for specific details, availability and price.

[Baalz]

Paying 35 gold per water gem.

[llamabeast]

Baalz, I only just saw your comment a few posts up. That's interesting, I will try to take a look at that.

[llamabeast]

Oh hang on, I don't understand the bug. Presumably if you send in a turn for the wrong game (let's say you intended to send a turn for game A but sent one for game B), it just accepts it as a valid turn for B and sends you a receipt back. How is it meant to know that you intended to send it a 2h for game A? Just run it past me again, I'm probably being a bit slow.

[Baalz]

Here's exactly the behavior I saw.
Take a turn for Dolphin, submit it correctly.
Receive receipt for Dolphin.
Take turn for Allegiance, accidentally include Dolphin's turn in reply rather than Allegiance.
Receive no receipt or problem notice.
Dolphin hosts correctly, Allegiance stales (I didn't notice that I never received a receipt until after the stale).

So, presumably at some point my Allegiance turn submission was rejected (it was the wrong nation, wrong era, wrong turn, etc.), but I didn't get a notice. Seems like you indicated I should get a notice if the turn was rejected, but I didn't so seems like a bug. Also, my suggestion above (which may not be necessary if you catch this type of error elsewhere) was to check that the attachment name "early_sauromatia.trn" matched the subject line "Dolphin, Sauromatia turn 21".

[llamabeast]

Ah, now the thing is that the llamaserver doesn't look at the subject line at all. I always send my turns in with blank subject lines. It only works out what game the turn is for by looking at the file itself. So it has no way of knowing that you sent it a different file than you intended to.

As for the receipt I would be willing to bet that you received a second receipt for Dolphin, but didn't take any notice of it, assuming it was an erroneous repeat or something. Try it next time.

I'm not quite sure what change I can make to improve this situation. I don't want it to look at the e-mail's subject line you see, since that increases the faff factor for using the server significantly. Sending blank e-mails with just the attachment is very convenient.

[Baalz]

So I'm curious, if it doesn't look at the subject line how does it know what game I'm submitting a turn for? Its not the case now, but potentially I could be playing the same nation same era on two different games.

It's possible I got a second receipt for Dolphin and didn't notice, I'll test this out tonight when I get home.

[llamabeast]

So, if it finds a 2h file it sticks it in a directory called savedgames/test and gets Dominions to verify it ('dom3 --verify test'). This produces a .chk file, which gives a few lines of useful info. Crucially it gives a 'game number' which is lots of digits long and unique to a particular game, and a turn number - so that's enough information. This also has the advantage that it checks that the file isn't corrupt or anything in the process.

[Baalz]

Ah, cool, I misunderstood how that was working. I had thought the subject line was important, but since I don't need anything other than the .2h file I think I'll just write a script myself which launches the game then automatically emails the turn to llamaserver.net afterwards so I won't have to do (or screw up) anything manually.

[llamabeast]

Sounds like a cunning plan.

It's extremely convenient actually that Dominions has the 'verify' action and can recognise what games 2h files are for and so on - it reduces the possibility for errors hugely. Thanks Johan!

[parcelt]

Would it be possible to postphone or work with a 48hr hosting schedule over the labor day weekend?

[Ubercat]

parcelt said:
Would it be possible to postphone or work with a 48hr hosting schedule over the labor day weekend?



When do you want the turn to process again?

[Sensori]

So now I have Abysia AND Sauromatia going to be breathing down my neck. Obviously the Abysian magmamen are too idiotic to realize that Sauromatia is a much larger threat than the Lankans, a threat that grows by every passing turn as they gain more and more lands which Abysia cannot even touch, but who has ever accused them of having brains in the first place? Indeed, I am quite sure that Abysia will succumb to Sauromatia just as Vanheim did, just as Yomi is, and just as I will. In fact, I hereby pledge that I shall fight the Abysians to the best of my ability, while letting the Sauromatians take over the heartlands of Lanka! If they wish to help Sauromatia grow even larger, I shall grant them that wish.

Well, I guess that's it for me. I'll be going AI... But not just yet.

[parcelt]

I'll try and get to a computer over the holiday, but can't guarantee it. I will definitely be back later in the day on Monday (eastern US). So either postphone until then or have a longer schedule (eg 48 hours) should both work, I just got turn 24 in.

Thanks.

[Baalz]

You left out Argatha, I'm eating them to, and I got a good part of Atlantis before he left. If you're gonna list my conquests, might as well make the list complete... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Let me know if I can facilitate your egress in any way, I won't even shoot at the withdrawing monkey backs.

[Baalz]

Wait a second, these monkeys aren't egressing, they're attacking despite the fact that our NAP hasn't expired. Guess one really can't expect too much honor from a monkey, and worshiping demons doesn't help much in that regard I suppose. It is good you have decided to entertain with your struggling rather than presenting your urine soaked underbelly with tail tucked low as you promise, but the mild advantage you gain by lying not once but twice and abusing the consideration I've shown by giving you notice before attacking seems a meager return for molesting your honor and showing all how far Sensori's word can be trusted. Really, if you're going to bugger your own honor you really should milk it for more of an advantage.

[Sensori]

It has expired. Technically. It was 3 turns ago that you sent us the cancellation demand. Three turns was the NAP's cancellation time. And what? You expect us to honor you when you, AND Abysia, the two nearly largest nations in the WORLD, choose to start a war against us? We only assessed our situation and came to the conclusion that our poison resistant armies are better served fighting against you and your poison filled filth rather than the burning insanity of the Abysians.

If you expected honor in a war which has no honor in the first place, you must be insane. Honor? Hah! All you want is to sate your insane lust for power, no matter the cost. And you should know this by now. The dead honor no one.

[Baalz]

Apparently monkeys can't count past two, your comic show of claiming to be withdrawing gives lie to your lunacy that this is not a sneak attack made possible by my honoring our agreement. Rest assured however, your counting skills will not again be challenged for the only warning you'll receive in the future will be the crash of an axe to the back of your skull. Much like you can have no faith unless there is uncertainty, you can have no honor until it is not pragmatic so justify not your sneak attack with sniveling about being outmatched by your betters.

In the end it matters not for monkey skin flays as well as any other and you have accomplished naught with your treachery outside annoyance.

[Sensori]

Where is the honor in bringing an ally, an ally which is practically as large as you, to a fight against a much smaller opponent, whom you know that you could've beaten on your own, even if at a slightly slower pace? You make us laugh. Tell us some more of your jokes.

Indeed, what do YOU know of honor? Nothing. You only deserve our scorn. The fact that you expect a "honorable" war, which in fact would in truth be a war which would suit YOUR needs the most, is laughable. In truth, there is no honor in your wars. There shall never be any honor in them. You only pick on the sickly and the weak, because you are scared that anyone even close to your level might actually hurt you. YOU have the luxury of "honoring your agreements", because YOU know that no one you are to wage war with cannot even hurt YOU once you are prepared for your war. To think that we would be that idiotic is lunacy. To honor you would be the same as stabbing one's own heart.

And you are still wrong. The attack itself happened on turn three of the cancellation, even though the orders may have been given on turn two of the same. The Abysians gave us the same cancellation a turn later you did, and this happened through a different medium.

[Micah]

Hey, Parcelt asked for an extension ahead of time and it's 4-5 hours til host and his 2h isn't in, so I'm thinking we ought to set the timer back. Anyone have any more info regarding that?

[Ubercat]

Micah said:
Hey, Parcelt asked for an extension ahead of time and it's 4-5 hours til host and his 2h isn't in, so I'm thinking we ought to set the timer back. Anyone have any more info regarding that?



Thanks for the reminder. I just delayed it by 15 hours.

[Sensori]

Heh, your ally removed the last vestiges of claims you had of our dishonorability by attacking us in similar fashion as we attacked you! Indeed, it has voided all your claims of anything dishonorable taking place, and all that is left is the fact that our armies are raiding within your lands, and they have absolutely nothing to lose. While we shall undoubtably die, and the Sauromatians will most undoubtably dishonor our dead, as is customary for their foul nation, at least we die knowing that we did indeed drive deep into the lands of the foul, traitorous Sauromatians, whom poison the very ground they walk upon!

Come, good Abysians, take over everything you can see! A bounty of provinces awaits you!

[Baalz]

Yes, when you're known to break NAPs others don't tend to honor them with you, a hard lesson about consequences I fear you won't have much time to consider. Rest assured, I had no doubt from the moment you attacked that you lacked any interest in doing other than scorching as much earth as possible. Lacking the character and ability to do otherwise, monkeys fling poo....you have to expect distasteful behavior when dealing with your sort.

[Jazzepi]

The grand people of Abysia see no need to honor pacts with pact breakers. We held our end of the NAP, gave notification, and then saw it broken against our neighbor.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Hmm, so you are saying that it is alright to stoop to the level of those whom you might consider dishonorable? Hahahahaha. More jokes! You sure know how to keep us entertained. No, it in fact only reinforced our point on that attacking on the third month of the NAP cancellation, even if orders were given on the second month, was exactly what should be done, as that is what your ally did as well! And you still seem to think that we might've actually had a chance against your and Abysia's combined power... Are you completely out of your mind? Have you been using some of those "natural drugs" of yours again?

And let's not kid ourselves. Even the most retarded markata child could see that you fully expected us to defend against the armies of Abysia which piled up on our borders while YOU would get all the good parts of our lands with practically no resistance. The fact that, even while starting to cancel the NAP and claiming that your armies would roll into our lands in three months, you failed to bring any proper forces to our borders, ever. Too bad your plan backfired as we managed to get the momentum instead of you, and now Abysia is reaping the benefits while you are reaping the damage. Indeed, your tactics are without a shred of honor and are readable as though a book, yet you claim to be "honorable"... Of course you consider us dishonorable because we acted in a way that displeases you, but was obviously the ONLY reasonable action we could take. Which part of that is so hard to understand? We know we can't survive in a war against you AND Abysia. You know that. Abysia knows that. And you still think we care about your views on honor, when you have none?

Please, stop this nonsense. Haven't you heard that a cornered animal is very likely to bite? And it is true for even most sentient creatures? And why do you call us "monkeys"? You are actually related to them, while we are of completely different pedigree. Or does the fact that we use them in battle confuse you? Because, we can assure you, we are not apes. You are.

[Sensori]

Jazzepi said:
The grand people of Abysia see no need to honor pacts with pact breakers. We held our end of the NAP, gave notification, and then saw it broken against our neighbor.



Then you are even more stupid than we thought. If you expected us to hold true to anything which concerns either of you when you, two much larger nations than us, are breathing down our collective necks... "Pact broker" is such an idiotic term, especially when it is YOU two who wanted war.

Yes. You wanted war. You got one. Just not on your most optimal terms. Deal with it. If you ever thought that we would just go down quietly, you were stupid, naive and probably mentally retarded.

[Papastoss]

I got worked. Hard. GG

[Jazzepi]

Sensori said:

Jazzepi said:
The grand people of Abysia see no need to honor pacts with pact breakers. We held our end of the NAP, gave notification, and then saw it broken against our neighbor.



Then you are even more stupid than we thought. If you expected us to hold true to anything which concerns either of you when you, two much larger nations than us, are breathing down our collective necks... "Pact broker" is such an idiotic term, especially when it is YOU two who wanted war.

Yes. You wanted war. You got one. Just not on your most optimal terms. Deal with it. If you ever thought that we would just go down quietly, you were stupid, naive and probably mentally retarded.



I don't mind light in character joshing between nations, but you are just being offensive. This is your only warning; stop it.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

As an OOC reply to that... Yeah, I'm being offensive. Towards the Abysians and the Sauromatians. Whom, in the view of the Lankans, spout a lot about honor while going after weaker folks, which isn't very honorable. And then they go ganging up on weaker folks, TOO, because they're cowardly. If the other side doesn't have a fighting chance, it's kinda stoopid to start talking about honor or the lack of it when talking about the other side, when they're doing things that are obviously the best courses of action for them to take before actually dying.

Seriously, if you expect people to actually honor deals, don't go, "I'm breaking this nap rofl, and oh yeah, I'm bringing a friend too just so you really can't do anything." That basically gave me the justification to do whatever I want, because I know I'm gonna die fast anyway, so I don't really have to care about anything anymore, except causing maximum damage to one of you before I really go. Remember the whole thing about the cornered animal being the most likely to bite back? And that is works for humans, too? Well, that's what happened. ;p

[Baalz]

The thing you have to realize is that by behaving utterly loathsome both in and out of the game all you accomplish is making sure people don’t want to make pacts with you in the future, or indeed even play with you - and perhaps if you’re lucky annoy some people who are playing a game with you for no reason other than mutual enjoyment. Take this advice in the spirit with which it is intended, regardless of how you justify it poor sportsmanship and being a sore looser hurt yourself more than the people you’re trying to annoy. If you behave like somebody you’d want to play with you’ll have a much more satisfying game, and indeed life. Fight the good fight, congratulate your conqueror, and see if there is anything you can learn from your defeat.

By definition its strategy to avoid a fair fight. By definition it's poor sportsmanship to cause grief after you've lost. You decide the player you're going to be.

That’s just my opinion, so don’t bother responding with vitriol as that’s all I’ve got to say about it.

[Sensori]

Hmm? You still don't seem to get that I'm playing the part of a nation that was betrayed by two nations whom it considered friendly. You showed no indication of wanting war with me, in fact you went as far to actually sign a non-aggression pact, and then, suddenly, you figured it was time to go to war and then you even brought Abysia into it. Thus you managed to make an already unfair situation extremely unfair. You left me with no other choice but to attack you the way I did, and you know that's the truth. At least you could've had the common decency to fight me on a one on one basis, when I would've done what I originally intended (bring my troops to the border, wait one more turn and attack) and I would've still lost. You're like a bully first going, "YOU'RE SO DEAD..." and when the one being bullied does something that hurts the said bully, he goes, "HEY UNFAIR, YOU ACTUALLY FOUGHT BACK." ;p

This poor sportsmanship BS is just as much BS as it was before when I got overrun by Helheim as Marverni, and I didn't even break anything there. Sure, I could instead just go "buhuhu I'm going to lose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif(( I quit" every time things start looking grim to me, but I'm the kind of player who instead chooses to actually fight back as long as I can with the limited toolset I am given. This IS a wargame, you know, not a "I quit the moment I realize I've lost" game nor a "I care for the welfare of people who want to kill me" game. And you know... I think getting an ALLY out into the war is far worse sportsmanship than me attacking you one turn "early". And you got Jazzepi to show the same lack of "sportsmanship" by getting him attack me a turn early, too, instead of showing that you are "better" than me and waiting for the third turn - a turn you could've waited for easily because you guys are stronger than me ALONE already. So, your complaint loses its ground.

You are quite an unpredictable player (Burden of Time as Mictlan? Christ, no one saw that one coming, and let's not forget Astral Corruption! Both are direct violations of the spirit and the letter of non-aggression pacts, cuz they screw up people badly), but you're WRONG to think that others aren't capable of using the very same element. I caught you offguard. You should be complimenting me for the fact that I actually managed to do such a cunning feint instead of going "OMG UNFAIR" - then I might actually feel compelled to compliment you for your aggressive style of play, which, for all intents and purposes, is pretty effective, while not a way of playing the game that I enjoy. I do enough of this powergaming in Anarchy Online, thank you.

All is fair in love and war, they say. But apparently not in Dominions 3 gaming, because fighting back is horriblay. To give a counterargument on one of your other points, it's you whom people should be wary of making NAPs with (I know I will be after this). Why make a NAP with a person who'll just cancel it anyway when he thinks he's ready to kill you, and brings others to do the dirty work for him? My track record so far, however, shows that I only go against a NAP that's being CANCELLED ANYWAY when I'm under pressure from much stronger nations, and it's the only way I can do anything instead of just going instadead.

I really don't think you have any place to complain here. You made your intentions clear. You got an ally with you too. I made my conclusions on them, and I did what I deemed as necessary. Abysia broke the NAP as well, and I'm fine with that. I may have broken the 3 turn rule, but you went against the spirit (and letter) of non-aggression pacts. You don't seem to take the idea of non-aggression pacts as seriously as I do - which is good to know.

/argument hat

Don't worry, I can continue this argument for just as long as you want. It's pointless, it's stupid, yes, neither of us are really standing on any ground to accuse the other of anything as we're both doing what we're pretty much expected to be doing. I'm clinging to whatever shreds of continued life in-game I can find while you are bringing the smackdown on me... All should be good. The IC chatter was just that - IC chatter. What I've said is stupid, pointless stuff from a nation of warlike demon-things that kinda look like apes which are dying under the combined might of two of the strongest nations ingame, with insults and general nastiness being thrown from both sides.

EDIT:

For those who might read this argument and wonder about it, and possibly about my reasoning for what I did, I took a few of screenshots from the graphs to make my side of this silly argument a bit clearer and probably understandable.

1) Provinces (http://sensori.soldats.net/kuvia/Provinces.jpg)

As you can see, I have a LOT less provinces than either of them do. Even if I somehow doubled up, I'd still have less than either one of them.

2) Armysize (http://sensori.soldats.net/kuvia/Armysize.jpg)

While this does not generally look as bad as the Province count, it actually is. As you can see, from one fight with Sauro's troops my army size dropped considerably. It's because a large majority of my army consists of ghouls/ape ghouls and assorted undead chaff with some ape archers and sacreds - I can't even dream of trying to replace all the troops I lose when I end up in a fight.

3) Income (http://sensori.soldats.net/kuvia/Income.jpg)

Partly due to my horrible position (lots of wastes), partly due to the fact that they are insanely huge compared to me, their incomes, even alone, would be waaay above twice than that of mine. They could field much larger armies than I could if they wanted to as a result, and Abysia, in fact, does. He was my only hope for fighting off Sauromatia who had his army all over the place, but well, he seemed to have other ideas. His choice.

4) Gem Income (http://sensori.soldats.net/kuvia/Gemincome.jpg)

While my gem income is only slightly worse than Abysia's (which means that our gem income is totally abysmal, I've only found 2 provinces with sites that give gems outside my capital with my many searches), it is way lower than that of Sauromatia's.

[Micah]

FWIW I think that everyone in this case acted fairly appropriately. Aby/Sauro beating up on a small nation is smart (though I wouldn't say honorable) and Lanka biting, clawing, and scrapping with everything it has when he realizes it's a hopeless situation. Doing damage once you've lost (in game, obviously) is perfectly acceptable. I spent a good 5 turns hunting down Pan's last raiding force before finally cornering it, even though his cap had fallen and didn't think it was anything resembling poor sportsmanship for him to do what he did. If the fight is evenly balanced then sure, taking your loss gracefully once it's clear the other player has gained the upper hand is all well and good, but expecting someone that's outmatched from turn 1 of the conflict to go gently isn't in the same category.

If you're going to talk about Sensori's reputation in future games what I just learned from this is that I'll probably want to go pick on someone else who will roll over and die instead of killing Sensori's nation if I have a choice between two targets. That's not a bad rep to have, even in light of the NAP fudging.

Some of the commentary on the boards is getting a bit heated though. Baalz actually threw the first hunk of ice in what had been an acceptable snowball fight over honor and NAPs by referring to Sensori, not Lanka. Sensori's replies since then have been a bit overly vitriolic though, even if they were meant to be IC.

Basically I don't think anyone did anything they shouldn't have in the game, so the whole pissing contest on the boards is getting a little silly. The initial round of "you broke your NAP, prepare to die" and "haha we tricked you, Sun Tzu thinks we're awesome" was fine and dandy, but most of the posts since then have been fairly pointless (just each side calling the other side names), many being pointlessly offensive.

That's my take on it. Both sides have been heard out, neither one is "right" on the boards, or "wrong" in the game we all know the facts, now lets move on, shall we?

[Sensori]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I just like arguing for the sake of arguing, especially when a good argument over nothing gets rolling!

Truce, Baalz and Jazzepi?

[Jazzepi]

I don't mind scorched earth tactics, that's Baalz's deal. I just felt the tone of Sensori's posts went over the line.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Jazzepi said:
I don't mind scorched earth tactics, that's Baalz's deal. I just felt the tone of Sensori's posts went over the line.



They did, but I had the Lankans call the in-game, in character Abysians retards, not you. ;p It was in response to the whole thing which I considered that the Lankas would find rather insulting that you chose to attack them instead of Sauromatia, especially after asking for your help against them, only to find out that you were indeed allied with them in the destroying of Lanka - especially since I really do consider that the worst possible move you could have made when Sauromatia's armies are faar faar awayyy.

[lch]

Plus, Sensori is confirmed to be insane. Never forget that.

[Sensori]

lch said:
Plus, Sensori is confirmed to be insane. Never forget that.



Hey, I resent that! No German guy is gonna come around and call ME insane! YOU are insane! ;p

[Rytek]

Baalz, will you finally kill off my pretender so I can put this game on AI!

A Bane with a few toys should be able to take care of him.

[Baalz]

I apologize profusely for my egregious job in closing the deal, my initial force were obviously unprepared for the Risen Oracle and Red Dragon that unexpectedly popped out of the respective Argatha and Yomi capitals on the same turn and the more appropriate hit squads I then sent to follow up were promptly cut off by an irate Lanka (loudly complaining that the armies recently scattered were nowhere to be seen so I must not have intended to really attack him). Rest assured, your war front is very important to us and it will be handled in the order in which it was received.

[Sensori]

Hey, I'm gonna go to a place for the weekend that doesn't have the internets from the looks of it. Could it be possible for yous to wait for my turn then, unless Abysia and Sauro somehow manage to destroy me in one turn?

And Baalz, I've been thinking that you made a strategic error in thinking that you can fight in multiple fronts at once. Nice to hear that it was actually true. ;p Seems like that you really needed Abysia to save you in this war, since from the looks of things, had he been on "my" side, you'd be toast. And what I've seen so far... The army you were going to use was quite small - not exactly something you would've won with. Hell, I'm skipping your army now to just go into your lands. ;p

So in the end, Jazzepi traded a huge amount of good provinces for a bunch of wastelands. Doesn't sound like a sweet deal to me. Unless, of course, he has plans to attack you after this... Would make sense. He HAS to have some kind of plan, because my lands are so bad that they won't pay off too much.

[Baalz]

Oh, it wasn't so much a strategic error in me being overextended - I had both Yomi and Argatha essentially conquered and no indication that wouldn't be wrapped up before our NAP expired. The setback when the double SCs unexpectedly popped out like jack-in-the-boxes was followed by you jumping the gun and attacking before our NAP had expired and whatsmore immediate abandoning any semblance of acting in your own self interest to simply ignore everything and throw every troop you had into pushing as far and fast as possible into my lands. I'll admit it did catch me off guard that you abandoned any pretense of defending your lands as the Abyssians massed on your other border. Its a bit odd that your conclusion is I need the Abyssians to save me, I opened a third war front fully expecting to be facing roughly half your army, falsely believing you'd have some interest in fighting off Abyssia. As it is the steam runs out in your blitz with no lasting consequence (other than briefly keeping me from putting Argatha and Yomi out of their misery), while Abyssia rolls in from the West and my regrouped forces begin to move back up to offense.

So yes, it did not go as smoothly as I hoped but I don't think I made any big mistakes given the information I had at the time.

[Sensori]

There's rarely any truly lasting consequences from having someone who's going to die stinging you - other than the fact that it slows you down momentarily which, in and out of itself, is something of that will have an ever so slight effect that will affect you forever. You know, in the form of a maybe slightly smaller troop number/research/etc in turn X after war (which is kind of a given), which is the best I can hope for in the first place.

And yes, I'm quite certain that you did need Abysia to help you out - as in, instead of him being in opposition of you, really. Although. Had you been alone and Abysia had stayed out, the effects of my raids would've been... I'd say, a lot worse for you (basically because I'm forced to rush and exert myself even more than I had originally intended), as Abysia wouldn't be lowering my income, forcing me to bring my mages and such closer to the capital instead of letting them sit where they were, running after my raid groups and so forth. Your poison arrows are little more than regular arrows for my armies as most of them are undead, and by extension, poison resistant. Only really scary thing you have are those durn sacred riders. Just against you, I would've expected a rather prolonged war which I would've lost as I couldn't have kept up in sheer numbers (my (gem) income is abysmal) I think, but still, a long war.

What I'm trying to say is that I was rather optimistic of my ability to fight the war until Abysia came in, too. At that point I knew I can't even survive for long. Throwing half of my armies on one of you and the other half on the other would've been suicide - your army sizes were practically identical to mine, and together they were TWICE the amount I had. I knew I had to fight one almost exclusively while giving the other practically free passage through my lands, or I wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING.

--

I'm gonna go away on Friday and come back on Sunday, so could the turn be postponed if I haven't sent my turn? Puhleeze! This is an important time for my nation, as I try to cause some havoc on mah enemies before actually dying.

[Ubercat]

Sensori said:
Hey, I'm gonna go to a place for the weekend that doesn't have the internets from the looks of it. Could it be possible for yous to wait for my turn then, unless Abysia and Sauro somehow manage to destroy me in one turn?

And Baalz, I've been thinking that you made a strategic error in thinking that you can fight in multiple fronts at once. Nice to hear that it was actually true. ;p Seems like that you really needed Abysia to save you in this war, since from the looks of things, had he been on "my" side, you'd be toast. And what I've seen so far... The army you were going to use was quite small - not exactly something you would've won with. Hell, I'm skipping your army now to just go into your lands. ;p

So in the end, Jazzepi traded a huge amount of good provinces for a bunch of wastelands. Doesn't sound like a sweet deal to me. Unless, of course, he has plans to attack you after this... Would make sense. He HAS to have some kind of plan, because my lands are so bad that they won't pay off too much.



Just tell me when to start the delay and when to end it.

[Sensori]

Uh, well, I go away on Friday, I'll be gone at least from like... 16:00 EET (GMT+2), and I'll probably come back at around 16:00 EET (GMT+2), which would be 14:00 GMT on both days.

[Ubercat]

Sensori said:
Uh, well, I go away on Friday, I'll be gone at least from like... 16:00 EET (GMT+2), and I'll probably come back at around 16:00 EET (GMT+2), which would be 14:00 GMT on both days.



What day are you coming back?

[Sensori]

Sunday... How did I forget that word from that post?

[Rytek]

Not sure why Yomi would continue to attack me while Sauromatia is everywhere. Oh well, I have killed Yomi's dragon, again. So Now Sauromatia has 1 less SC to worry about.

[Baalz]

Doh! I thought we had a delay. Oh well, one stale is a small price to pay for having that dragon gone (I think he was jumping blind trying to avoid my hit squad and didn't really mean to attack you Rytek).

[Jazzepi]

I was under that impression as well. I just barely got my turn in like 5 minutes before the deadline.

Sensori is going to be pissed. I think every game he asked for a delay in, he isn't getting it.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

I think he got his turn in, Lanka attacked me this turn...

[Ubercat]

I don't know what, if anything, went wrong. I looked last night and he'd already taken his turn. There was no point in delaying until AFTER the next tick. Now that the turn has ticked, I'll delay it.

[Jazzepi]

I think it's pretty clear that myself and Baalz, unrelated to in game things, expected the turn to be delayed as requested and that's why he staled, and I barely made the deadline. If I hadn't woken up super early, I would have missed it easily.

Jazzepi

[Ubercat]

Jazzepi said:
I think it's pretty clear that myself and Baalz, unrelated to in game things, expected the turn to be delayed as requested and that's why he staled, and I barely made the deadline. If I hadn't woken up super early, I would have missed it easily.

Jazzepi



The turn was delayed as requested. Unfortunately I didn't anticipate that others would skip(delay) their turns in anticipation of the delay. I'm sorry about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I will try to be more informative of my admin actions in the future.

OTOH, if anyone wants to take over the admin duties, I'd be happy to hand them off. I'm going to be eliminated soon.

[Baalz]

Oh, no worries. I'm certainly not complaining, but I'll take over admining if you're on the way out.

[Sensori]

Oh yeah, I managed to get my turn in because, as usual, things got postponed by an hour or two. 16:00 was just a rough estimate. And then I got back home like 4 hours after I thought I'd be here.

But anyway, thanks for waiting, bummer that others got staled especially since they are the ones I'm fighting, kinda sorta. I was wondering why he (Sauro) stayed put like that, it made no sense - makes more sense now (I did my new turn before checking the forums, just in case if I was running low on time or something).

[Rytek]

Good job killing Yomi. Now, come get Risen Oracle.

[Baalz]

Worry not my friend, Yomi has fallen and Lanka hunkers in their capital waiting for the end. I will be calling on you shortly.

[Micah]

The hosting is waiting on Yomi, who is dead, what's up with that?

[Valerius]

I think there's a one turn lag; next turn the llamaserver will no longer show Yomi.

[Baalz]

Hmmm, I've got the admin password but I'm hesitant to force the hosting in case its the summary page that's wonky and the hosting is actually waiting on somebody else. Should be hosting in a few hours anyway and hopefully Yomi will no longer be on the list.