Death Bless

[Edratman]

Probably a dumb question, but does the death bless infliction bonus apply to spell damage when the spell is cast by sacred mages that are blessed?

[Baneslave]

Yes, AFAIk.

[Baalz]

Yes, it does, you can get pretty wicked effects with spells like rain of stones and earthquake. Also effects arrows, unlike the fire bless.

[Wahnsinniger]

Bloodletting!

The D9 Doesn't work with Arrows though, plus the lesser death bless doesn't help the arrows do more damage, so unless you have Flaming Arrows cast, it isn't really that effective. (Can't cause afflictions if the arrows don't hit/do damage in the first place!)

[Baalz]

You are correct that it doesn't add damage to the arrows, but I've found it to be pretty effective at inflicting afflictions on most troops. Arrows doing only 1 or 2 points of damage with a D9 or 10 bless have a considerable chance of making you lose an arm, get a chest wound, gain battle fright, and all kinds of other nasty things you don't want to happen as you're charging into battle. You can also do mean things like Fire and Flee with death blessed archers to really discourage elite armies from pressing into your territory. Works well on javelins to, and they're a lot more common on holy troops.

[MaxWilson]

It affects direct-damage spells (Blade Wind, Cloud of Death), Battlefield spells (Fire Storm, Earthquake, Bone Grinding), and overland spells (Seeking Arrow, Flames From the Sky). I've never tested whether it works on global spells like the one that sends lightning against enemies in your dominion, but it works great for everything else. In one test a D9-blessed Svartalf did a Rain of Stones on an army of 100 Ambibate Nobles. About 25 died and another 50 were afflicted. It's terrific for afflicting whole armies.

How much you like that depends upon how much you care about afflicting enemies, vs. actually killing them.

-Max

[Edratman]

I was pondering the effect of the death bless for mages as a means of crippling SC's, powerful rushes (such as Nefelheim or elephants, and high hit point pretenders in the home castle. It would also be potent for a mage raid on a powerful army with a blade wind and retreat script for example.

[Wahnsinniger]

Throw the Blood-9 Death Curse on there, and using cheap Sacreds like Flagallents or mictlan's, then the enemy army is doomed whether they win or lose.

[Kristoffer O]

My brother just pointed out that this probably means that the heroic ability 'legendary cruelty' also affects spells in the same manner (it gives some fear and increased affliction chances).

[MaxWilson]

Don't bother with the cheap sacreds. Use a single sacred mage and a spell like Earthquake or Rain of Stones. (Edit: IIRC, the death curse gives an MR resist roll.)

However, "Doomed" is a bit strong. "Annoyed" might be better. Much like the spell Leprosy, the main effect is probably psychological. People hate having their pretty armies messed up.

-Max

[PyroStock]

Kristoffer O said:
My brother just pointed out that this probably means that the heroic ability 'legendary cruelty' also affects spells in the same manner (it gives some fear and increased affliction chances).



Does anyone know how Legendary Cruelty scales? Does the Fear also increase over time? Unlike other heroic abilities there's nothing to show where this starts and how it scales up. I have it on a sacred unit (rainbow w/ 4Death bless) so I presume those both stack, but I'm wondering how good this heroic ability is... I'm tempted to retire him and let a new hero in (it's just SP so I control the Hall of Fame for the most part).

[Edi]

Legendary Cruelty is much like Heroic Agility in that it combines two different abilities in one package. Heroic Agility combines Heroic Battle Prowess and Lightning Reflexes with a bit of a bonus with the ambidex, Legendary Cruelty combines Battle Bellow (gives fear and increases over time) with the increased affliction chance.

[Kristoffer O]

I don't think the fear effect increases, but the affliction chance does.

[Edi]

So, the fear from legendary cruelty is different from the fear from Battle bellow?

[Edratman]

I am starting to think that the death bless has been underrated. It may not be real beneficial for hand to hand combat, but once you research some effective area spells and have sacred mages it has the potential to be stronger in the medium to late game than others that are more highly regarded.

[Wahnsinniger]

Thus, kinda like the Blood Blesses, its not really a good bless to base a strategy around, but if you need a pretender with Death( or Blood), you can go for it and probably do pretty well. (As long as its not your main strategy, its probably a really good option)

[Edratman]

Another dumb question. If I put the Shroud of a Saint (or whatever the raggy looking armor/shirt thing is called) that always blesses the wearer, does a non-sacred mage get the benefit of the death bless when he casts damage spells?

[Hadrian_II]

If death bless works on spells like Earthquake, it seems quite overpowered (or does the death damage also damage yourselves)

[Baalz]

If you mean does the extra affliction chance (the only part of the death bless which effects spells) apply when you damage your own troops, yes it does. Given the difficulty to use effectively (holy mages powerful enough to cast battlefield wide spells are moderately rare) and opportunity cost (you could have a water or fire bless) I certainly don't think the death bless is overpowered. A nice bonus, yes, but you're unlikely to win a war because of it.

[Meglobob]

Yes I agree with Baalz its not overpowered, simply because its better to kill the enemy, rather than leave them alive with afflictions.

Its really just annoying that the army is a bunch of limping, blind, one arm missing etc... pain filled wrecks.

Still, those pain filled wrecks can go on to conquer provinces, win battles until they finally drop dead... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Also if you have the chalice, GoH, healers etc you can make them as good as new again, if you are playing a caring god that is.

[Taqwus]

Edratman said:
Another dumb question. If I put the Shroud of a Saint (or whatever the raggy looking armor/shirt thing is called) that always blesses the wearer, does a non-sacred mage get the benefit of the death bless when he casts damage spells?



All effects of any blessing apply, provided that the mage is not prohibited from benefiting -- ex. Pretenders do not gain the blessing, and prophets are already permablessed so the shroud adds no additional bless benefits for them.

It should be noted that a non-sacred commander wearing the shroud still isn't sacred, so he's still vulnerable to friendly-fire from the Ark, and should still be immune to Apostasy.

Hm. I suppose that, if for some reason somebody went the rather expensive and odd F9D9 blessing, and a blessed unit hit somebody with a melee weapon, the extra-affliction chance would affect the 6AP fire damage AND the 2AN 'death bless' damage (1 hit, three afflictions?), but neither the 6AP nor 2AN would be treated as separate weapons for the purposes of causing more 6AP or 2AN attacks.

[Hadrian_II]

Baalz said:
If you mean does the extra affliction chance (the only part of the death bless which effects spells)



ok, then it is all clear, i was somehow thinking that the AN damage would work also. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif