Will there be a Dominions 4

[weimaar]

Hi boys and girls! What an alive and vibrant forum this subsection has turn out to be!

My first post here. I've got a quick question: Will there be a Dominions 4? Are there any rumors out there about what the next game of Illwinter will be?

[coobe]

Illwinter said that there will be no Dominions4.

Maybe another game, but it really looks like there wont be a dom4 in the near future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Meglobob]

coobe said:
Illwinter said that there will be no Dominions4.

Maybe another game, but it really looks like there wont be a dom4 in the near future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Yes I have heard this as well.

The reason I believe is the developers feel they have pushed the dominions game engine as far as it can go.

However, this is not going to stop me wishing like mad for dominions 4 and if not dominions 4 how about something new but very dominions'ish. You know for the 21st century, please, pretty please?

Of course the patches can satisfy the addiction cravings till then... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Sombre]

I'm happy enough with dom3 to be honest - not feeling the need for a sequel unless it had a totally revamped GUI, AI etc - which would be a huge project.

Modding can take Dom3 very far imho.

[Gandalf Parker]

The developers have said that they are driven by fun. Dominions 3 is setup so that it can expand what it has fairly easily. But most of a "Dominions 4" would involve rewriting much of the game from the beginning. Thats not much fun.

From an interview that Illwinter did...


Saving the most obvious question for last: Is Dominions 4 the next Illwinter project?

Changes, add-ons and patches for Dom3 first. There are lots of ideas that could be implemented in later expansions for Dom3.
What will happen later we don't know yet. It would be fun to make another type of game, to start from scratch.
But it will be hard not to think in terms of Dominions. Perhaps an RPG in the Dominions setting, RTS Dominions, Dominions SPACE, I don't know.



And a long interesting thread that was sparked off by that comment.
We love you Illwinter but.. (http://tinyurl.com/2u5kl8)

[CUnknown]

I personally would love to see an RTS from Illwinter. Especially if it was done in the right way, and knowing Illwinter, it will be. I think RTS doesn't get enough respect from "die-hard" strategy fans. I am generally a fan of slower-paced strategy games with focus on real thought and strategy just like you guys (that's why I'm here!), but RTS can provide that as well. It's just it almost never does because the games are not designed that way.

One of my favorite games of all times (along with Dominions) is an RTS called Kohan. It's a slow-paced, thinking man's RTS that has some real strategy to it. They made a Kohan II as well, but they increased the pace, made it more "accessible", and more like Warcraft III and of course destroyed everything that was great about Kohan I in the process.

Anyway. A Dominions-style Space Conquest game would be great, too!

Illwinter should make the games they want to make, I guess that's what I'm saying. Until they put out a bad game, I think we should trust them.

[Sombre]

Yeah I enjoyed Kohan and, like you, didn't enjoy the sequel much at all. One of the best things about Kohan was the feeling when you got a new amulet and you were seeing who you'd end up with. Like opening a 'blind' pack of some collector's item.

[EarthRaver]

another kid's dream broken i want my mummy sob sob no dominion 4 ! why why in the earth!!!

[PvK]

Oh, interesting about Kohan. I only tried the demo of Kohan II, not the original, and saw that although there was good work in it, I would hate it because of things like they way a unit representing a company of warriors could be killed down to 10%, then "healed up" to 100% with no loss of experience, and other typical RTS annoyances.

I _still_ play Bungie's Myth series (mostly modded multi-player), which is a (near ten-year-old) real-time tactical game, which I like because it allows focus on fighting without having to do research and resource-gathering at the same time at a completely-out-of-proportion time scale, which is one major element that makes me dislike most RTS games (that and ones where you can't pause yet your attention is needed in several places at once or your men get slaughtered without your control and you may not even get to see what happened to them - that tends to kill my interest).

[Morkilus]

Dominions 3 is perfect. Where could they go to next... Dominions in SPAAAACE?


please?

[Gandalf Parker]

Heehee. Kristoffer does an amazing job of offering us variety. And thats while operating within some limits (known religio/mythology). Can you see what would happen if you turned him loose with NO restrictions such as alien lifeforms?

[Sir_Dr_D]

Morkilus said:
Dominions 3 is perfect. Where could they go to next... Dominions in SPAAAACE?




Maybe we could visit R'lyeys home world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[S.R. Krol]

Gandalf Parker said:
Heehee. Kristoffer does an amazing job of offering us variety. And thats while operating within some limits (known religio/mythology). Can you see what would happen if you turned him loose with NO restrictions such as alien lifeforms?



I think you'd be looking at potentially the greatest space 4x game ever! Imagine just applying the core Dominions stats in a SF setting...60+ alien races, 1500+ technology tree items, hundreds of starships, multiple tech ages...

[Sir_Dr_D]

A fantasy setting interests me a lot more. Magic appeals more to the imagination, and having heroes and commanding living troops gives more of a humanistic feeling. Commanding star ships is more science and logic then imagination, and gives you less of a connection with your troops. That is just my preference.

Christopher being a history person would be more likely to make another fantasy game I believe.

[S.R. Krol]

Ah, but what's that famous quote from Arther C. Clarke?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So there you go, a SF Dominions could be the equivalent of a new fantasy title. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sir_Dr_D]

Hmmm. So that means that all those dominion spells can get accomplished scientifically. Lets pick a spell. Flaming Arrows --> Get burning pitch. Tip arrows in pitch. Shoot arrow at target. See target burn. There! A high tech scietific approach to a dominions spell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif perhaps you have a point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

If you have enough imagination, and enough of a grasp of scope, you really find that fantasy boils down to one thing-anachronism. Fantasy-even Dominions fantasy-is basically just the trappings of various cultures, seen through the eyes of wishful thinkers who want the distortions of myth and storytelling, to be real.

Soooo...there's no reason at all that you can't have "future-anacronistic" fantasy, as opposed to "past-anachronistic" fantasy.

Look at Lovecraft: big influence on Dominions 3, and fantasy (through his friend R A Howard, of Conan fame), and he mixed fantasy, science fiction, and horror genres freely, and did so from an original mythos-base.

Personally, I think that Dominions 3 has only barely scratched the surface.

[weimaar]

Sorry for digging up an old post. Is there any news about whether it will be a Dominions 4 in the near future or not? Please illwinter. This game has potential. Didnt you guys earn enough with Dominions 3? Youve now built up a fanbase, so why "throw it" away?

[Dedas]

Read the posts from Johan and Kristoffer in this thread:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=578920&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=6#Post579651
to get some understanding of why they are making this game.

[Endoperez]

As far as I know:

1) The Dominions engine has grown over about ten years, and is too big of a mess for major changes.

2) Illwinter guys do this for fun, and Johan (the programmer) works long days with computers on his main job.

Because I don't think Johan would enjoy working 20/7, half on his work and half on updating the Dominions engine, I don't think there will be another game based on it. I hope Illwinter will continue making games, and because I've liked all four games of Illwinter I've played (Dom:PPP, II and 3, and CoE2), I think I'd also like it, even if it wasn't Dominions.


3) An unnamed, non-Dominions 3 related project exists.

Kristoffer O said:A bit further since last time, but I've been slightly preoccupied lately. Most of my energy has gone into school (or rather sleeping when returning home from school) and recently our other IW project. I'm a bit stuck Dom3-wise, waiting for the crashed computers to be restored to enable patchwork again. I have done some map-work while waiting. Added shades under most forests and smoothed mountain edges.


See this post. (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=547535) It could be anything from paying taxes to buying Bioware, although the latter one would've failed now that Vivendi out-did their offer.

[weimaar]

Hi guys, every 6 months or so, i wake up and wonder if there would be or is any development on Dominions 4. So here i go again. Kristoffer, Edi, will there be a Dominions 4?

I would pay 150 USD for a copy of Dominions 4. On the spot. Here and now. And im sure many many of the users here would do that as well. So lets make a quick calculation. It wouldnt take longer than 1 year to fix a dominions 4 for a 4 man team since most of the balancing is already made. Lets say that 1000 persons payed 100 USD right here and now in advance, and another 50 USD upon recieving the product, then the 4 man team would get a salary of 25000 USD/year and a bonus of 12500 USD upon completion of the product. Naturally, not a perfect salary, but a salary that one could live on to pursuit a hobby?! The question is, do we have a 4 man team, do we have the 1000 that would pay the 150 USD?

[Gandalf Parker]

I would jump in. I have 5 owned copies of Dom3.

But Im afraid that the devs have often said that they do it for the fun, not the money. The devs have moved on and are working on a new fun project. So we would have to come up with enough to get someone else to try and write a Dom4.

[JimMorrison]

I would jump in. I have 5 owned copies of Dom3.

But Im afraid that the devs have often said that they do it for the fun, not the money. The devs have moved on and are working on a new fun project. So we would have to come up with enough to fly Johan and Kristoffer to Aruba, where they would be waited on hand and foot by beautiful island girls, while they have fun making Dom4.


Interesting, Gandalf, sounds a lot like the solution that I had in mind. ;)

[zlefin]

i too hope for a dom4, though i feel it may yet be a bit too soon for it. even if illwinter doesn't want to make dom 4 themselves, they could grant the rights to someone interested in doing so (they'd probably want some creative and other control so nobody hurts their great creation), but it should be doable.
I know i've got the time to, but i'd have to have doubts about my reliability :)
I think in 2-6 years would be about the right time for a dom 4. though work would of coruse have to start somewhat before that.

what exactly would we all be looking for in a sequel anyways?
Zlefin :)

[MaxWilson]

UI improvements, a pluggable strategic AI, and a more granular tactical AI. (That is, scripting how many gems to use, whether to prefer offensive or defensive spells, special preferences for/against certain spells, etc.) The rules of the game should stay essentially the same or else you get the "MOO 3" phenomenon where the sequel really isn't.

-Max

P.S. That said I am just as happy to have KO/JK working on their "new IW project" instead of Dom4. Hopefully the end result will be full of crazy ideas and opportunities for treachery.

[Zeldor]

Dominions 4 means code written from scratch, so it's a huge difference. Dom3 was just remade and improved Dom2. But to get many new things, better UI etc we really need new code. That's probably what scares JK most :) I'd say Dom4 will be in 2011-2012.

[Gandalf Parker]

It might be easier for a new programmer to recreate a Dominions from scratch. I would like non-linear AI (each nation having a personalized AI). And random AIs strategies such as once playing offensive, then next time defensive, researching, barbarian horde, flanking, stealth, etc.

And of course the things on the wishlists. Server wishlist, maps wishlist, general wishlist, modding wishlist. In that order altho of course that just my own preferences :)

[Zeldor]

Gandalf:

I don't think there is any chance for Illwinter to give community rights to Dominions or a project coming to make Dom clone [unless Illwinter will say there won't be next Dominions version, but I doubt it].

[Trumanator]

A dominions RTS would be pretty cool, but the problem with RTS games is that the balance is much more on edge. Because of the fast pace and smaller number of players, if a race is overpowered then its a much bigger issue. I play a lot of CoH, and while Relic pays a lot of attention to it compared to many devs, there are still major balance issues 6 months after the release of the expansion.

[JimMorrison]

What I had most recently read, was not a condemnation of another iteration of Dominions - merely that it was not the next offering to be made from Illwinter.

I do believe the word "break" was used, in the temporal sense, rather than the permanent. ;)

That said, I can hardly imagine they'd want to work a deal that allowed them creative oversight - the video game industry seems to be the worst at actually staying true to the creator's vision, even when said creator is allowed to be in the same room.

[Alderanas]

A very cool idea I think would be make a dominions game like the total war series but that would be very hard and time consuming.

[Trumanator]

That would be interesting. more doable than an RTS for example. However, it would also make games exponentially longer. Imagine Kingmaker with people having to fight every single battle! :eek: And it would kinda stink if they went with the current TW multiplayer, there wouldn't be any metagame :(

[JimMorrison]

That would be interesting. more doable than an RTS for example. However, it would also make games exponentially longer. Imagine Kingmaker with people having to fight every single battle! :eek: And it would kinda stink if they went with the current TW multiplayer, there wouldn't be any metagame :(

I think the best way, would be to make the gameplay somewhat modular.

That is, leave the tactical battles there for SP play, and for MP skirmishes like in Total War now.

But provide an enhanced interface for automated battles, to allow MP to work just as it already does in Dom3. One of the weak points of recent iterations of TW is that automating battles seems to just simulate "everyone rush to center and brawl", as evidenced by the propensity for generals to become seriously injured or dead. ;) Adding the ability to script out smaller battles at 1/10 the time of playing them out (less if you win and use the same script), but keeping the ability to have the epic tactical battles, would accentuate the good parts of both, and make them both useful.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not much interested in a video game version. But I would be thrilled with a flash version that could be played on cell phones and iPods.

[Dectilon]

I think a major graphical improvement is the only thing this game is lacking. It might even break into mainstream if it had TW's graphics :)

However, I think we all know that's not an option for a team of two people :(

The only chance I can think of is if there'd be some kind of collaboration with the TW-guys, but that's not exactly likely to happen :P

[Gandalf Parker]

It might hook-in the shoppers that are convinced by pretty images. But then, like some games Ive bought, that could be done by just having a sales image that looks like its cooler than it is.

But everything has its pros and cons. It would likely shift the game into a game that does not share the computer well with other programs (not as easy to shell out and check your mail etc). And one not so friendly with laptops. Not to mention the headaches of getting such graphics to work on Windows AND Mac AND Linux. Plus it would make the possibility of digital download even less of an option to be considered. Lastly, many games that shifted to higher level graphics and sound formats killed off 90% of its base of player-modders.

Im not saying that its completely a bad thing. Just that it has its pros and cons.

[JimMorrison]

The modding issue is the biggest problem that I see, for a possible "modernization" of Dominions. I'm of the mind that everything else could and should be an acceptable trade-off (especially if there were TW style tactical battles, with Tartarians and Dragons and Illithids.... DROOL), but the hit to the ability of Joe the Plumber (hah!) to actually produce mod units/nations without extremely expensive and complicated 3D rendering software, would be a horrible shame.

But honestly, would we care if the engine were designed to accept fully rendered characters, as well as 2D sprites? I think that I could live with it. :p And if the conversion (read: addition) broadened the community much, I bet you'd find a few people who took great pride in doing graphics for mods that they were inspired by. They might just be students, or amateurs, but they'd do what they could, likely with similar degrees of competence that we generally see with the sprite art as it is. ;)

[Dectilon]

It's often a conscious decision whether or not to make a game mod friendly (apparently), so a powerful game editor would of course be nice ;)

It really takes tons of resources to make something like that work really well. Take Warcraft 3 for instance. It's probably one of the most mod-friendly games on that graphical level, but then it WAS developed by Blizzard :P

[Illuminated One]

I wouldn't see the modding problem as that big. There are many mods for TW that contain new/overworked models.
Although it would be madness to try and make all 1500 (?) existing dom 3 units in TW graphic. And if the engine could handle the units individually and still get some fps...

(But of course it would be awesome :p )

[rdonj]

Just for the sake of discussion, if you used the medieval total war engine the sprite quality would be pretty similar, I think. Now, fitting magic into total war, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[JimMorrison]

I wouldn't see the modding problem as that big. There are many mods for TW that contain new/overworked models.
Although it would be madness to try and make all 1500 (?) existing dom 3 units in TW graphic. And if the engine could handle the units individually and still get some fps...

(But of course it would be awesome :p )

Bear in mind, as it is in MTW2, you can end up with 20 unit types on the field at once. The vast majority of Dom3 battles see less than that, in an individual fight. Obviously the engine would need to be robust though, and be highly scalable to allow people to operate at lower settings and still enjoy the game.

Of course, converting all of the graphics would be a chore, but I'm pretty sure that CA would devote a talented team to making this a reality, if only they could settle on a deal with Illwinter. I will start the bidding at US1$mil. ;)

[HoneyBadger]

Hey, as long as it's not my money, let's make it a cool US2$mil. One for each dev.

[weimaar]

As you all folks remember, every 6 months or so I do a desperate plea for a new Dominions. I was wondering if something has happened on this front? Do we have a movement? Has the devs changed their minds? Can we perhaps preorder a Dominions 4? Can we perhaps help somehow to get the ball rolling?

[weimaar]

Havn't we, the people who play this game, come to the point where we are to say: WE NEED A NEW GAME ENGINE? :D

[tgbob]

I'm perfectly happy with Dom 3!

[Sombre]

Not really, no. I'm happy with dom3 and I think there's still a LOT that can be done with it.

[shard]

I suppose an analogy would be trying to upgrade the game of chess. I think if u play dom3 only singleplayer mode then you may hanker for an upgrade, but for playing other people in a fantasy turn based setting its fine as it is.

+ i like it when its playable on my laptop, netbook, granpa's old 3rd hand pc and my pc at work :p

[Executor]

I'm happy with Dominions 3 too, but I would like to see Dominions 4 one day unless they turn it 3D which would make it total crap IMO.

[Trumanator]

yeah, 3D would probably equal downward modding spiral aka VERY BAD THING!

[Omnirizon]

I'm happy with Dominions 3 too, but I would like to see Dominions 4 one day unless they turn it 3D which would make it total crap IMO.

yeah, 3D would probably equal downward modding spiral aka VERY BAD THING!

sort of like when Elite decided to use realistic space physics.

[weimaar]

I'm not in ANY way talking about a 3D engine. Simply a better 2D engine with more mod. And perhaps a better algorithm to faster process HUGE games and a slightly better AI. And yes, i do play it in single player mode :D

Is there a chance to create a fund from the people playing Dom3 for the creation of a Dom 4? How much money is actually required to make a new engine? 1000 - 2000 EUR? Is it more than a months work with the existing data for the developers? C'mon it CANNOT be that hard now can it? (im conciously presuming hillarious stuff so that i provoke a reaction)

[Sombre]

They don't seem to be motivated by money and I believe it would be far harder and more costly (in terms of time, since they are a 2 person team) than you imagine.

[weimaar]

If the devs are not motivated by money, by what then could they be motivated then (other than need of course?)

What are the devs doing at the moment and what other than patching the game? Does anyone know? Any rumors out there?

[thejeff]

The devs both have full-time jobs and do the games as much as a hobby as for money. Thus they're motivated to work on projects they find interesting, which has worked out very well for us.

They're currently working on a secret new game. Not Dominions 4, but something else.
I find it very unlikely they'll come back to Dominions afterward. Maybe if the new game doesn't work out, but most likely, they and we will be too excited by the new game to worry to much about Dominions.

[NTJedi]

I find it very unlikely they'll come back to Dominions afterward. Maybe if the new game doesn't work out, but most likely, they and we will be too excited by the new game to worry to much about Dominions.

That depends on the type(FPS?; RPG?; RTS?), game depth, and replay value of the new game. Take Triumph Studios for example which dropped AgeofWonders:ShadowMagic to create Overlord. The Overlord forums are dead with silence, but the AgeofWonders forums are still alive with activity and even developing a second unofficial patch which is adding new races & units.

[Gandalf Parker]

If the devs are not motivated by money, by what then could they be motivated then (other than need of course?)

What are the devs doing at the moment and what other than patching the game? Does anyone know? Any rumors out there?

In simplest form: This is not what the devs do to make money. This is what the devs make money (in the day jobs) in order to do (in their spare time).

This comes up alot. Over the years I have been amazed at the tactics used to try and motivate Illwinter. You are asking nicely but I have seen offers to help, downright bribes, challenges, name calling, disparagement of the product, logic, whining, inciting group rebellions, and veiled threats. Not overtly of course but things like "you will lose xxxxxxxx (money, fans, standing, credibility) and fail miserably".

I have often tried and tried to hint that the answers are available online but I saw the same people shoot themselves in the foot time and time again. Some fairly good ideas died I feel entirely due to the challenging way they were presented.

I probably had no problem since the philosophies of Illwinter are so close to my own. I posted frequently stressing the power of "please" and "thank you" in motivating those not driven by money. It did manage IMHO to get some projects moved forward.

I guess that I can now release my "secret file" on the subject. Its probably too late to save any Dom3 projects but maybe people will remember it and take a hint when it comes to asking for things in the next Illwinter project.
http://www.dom3minions.com/files/Dom3_Reasons.txt


Gandalf Parker
--
Some people spend so much effort making money that they seem to forget what it was they were making money for.

[Johan K]

Ah, that text file brings back memories from the good old times.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ah, that text file brings back memories from the good old times.
Condolences JK.
I know what it became. You know I did my part to combat it (at least I hope very much I didnt aid in it)

I truly wish you a return to the good times in the present endeavor even if Im not around to try and buffer against the friendly fire.

[Foodstamp]

I love this line:

We do not, however start out aiming for a greater scale. Start small and
let the organics of creativity work - grow, grOW, GROW ... ping: game
finished! Blubb, blubb, flush! Game doesn't stop growing.

:)

[Sombre]

JK: Is Gandalf just interpreting there, or was dom3 really somehow ruined for you by a handful of people complaining about certain things in the game?

Maybe I just lack the context, but the comment "Ah, that text file brings back memories from the good old times" doesn't seem to me to be cause for condolences.

[Gandalf Parker]

Heehee.
I think that if JK and KO were the type of people to state that any action of the community irritated them then we would have heard such things long ago. The quotes are quotes. Read them however you want. They are likely to be about as clear on the subject as is going to happen in a public forum. :)

IMHO of course. (I get to do that now dont I?)

Gandalf Parker

[Johan K]

JK: Is Gandalf just interpreting there, or was dom3 really somehow ruined for you by a handful of people complaining about certain things in the game?

Of course not, I'm quite happy with dom3. That things were better in the old times just comes naturally with old age, so don't take it too seriously.

[zlefin]

so johan, what would it take to let someone else make dom 4?

[Sombre]

Hahah. That's a bit rude isn't it?

I guess it's testament to what a great game they made that people are gung ho for a fourth one though.

[zlefin]

i don't mean to be rude, i simply seek an answer to the question. And the simplest way to get the answer is straight from the source. They aren't making dom 4 right now, and it's not clear they will ever make a dom 4, so there is a need to explore other options. Since it's still their game, it can only be made with their assent, so asking them what they would want for their assent seems the right action to take. It is quite open ended, as the variety of things people want in this world os quite vast indeed.
Zlefin :)

[DonCorazon]

Of course not, I'm quite happy with dom3. That things were better in the old times just comes naturally with old age, so don't take it too seriously.

Speaking of the good old days, its funny how the old games with bad graphics seemed so much better than most of the stuff on the market today. Aside from Dominions of course, I feel like PC gaming peaked with MOO2 and MMVI. Not sure if its just b/c things were so new back then or b/c I'm just an old codger who had to walk in a blizzard to school uphill both ways :)

[weimaar]

If the devs are not motivated by money, by what then could they be motivated then (other than need of course?)

What are the devs doing at the moment and what other than patching the game? Does anyone know? Any rumors out there?

In simplest form: This is not what the devs do to make money. This is what the devs make money (in the day jobs) in order to do (in their spare time).

This comes up alot. Over the years I have been amazed at the tactics used to try and motivate Illwinter. You are asking nicely but I have seen offers to help, downright bribes, challenges, name calling, disparagement of the product, logic, whining, inciting group rebellions, and veiled threats. Not overtly of course but things like "you will lose xxxxxxxx (money, fans, standing, credibility) and fail miserably".

I have often tried and tried to hint that the answers are available online but I saw the same people shoot themselves in the foot time and time again. Some fairly good ideas died I feel entirely due to the challenging way they were presented.

I probably had no problem since the philosophies of Illwinter are so close to my own. I posted frequently stressing the power of "please" and "thank you" in motivating those not driven by money. It did manage IMHO to get some projects moved forward.

I guess that I can now release my "secret file" on the subject. Its probably too late to save any Dom3 projects but maybe people will remember it and take a hint when it comes to asking for things in the next Illwinter project.
http://www.dom3minions.com/files/Dom3_Reasons.txt


Gandalf Parker
--
Some people spend so much effort making money that they seem to forget what it was they were making money for.

Gandalf, you are one wise man...especially that compiled txt file of yours. I was just about to ask what people had been wanting, "but wanting with force", and what the devs were responding, while reading your post. Thanks alot mate!

I read through the text file. Entirely in line with what I think as well...but I will continue to wish for a Dominion 4 every 6 months or so, if you guys allow me of course!

[Executor]

Speaking of the good old days, its funny how the old games with bad graphics seemed so much better than most of the stuff on the market today. Aside from Dominions of course, I feel like PC gaming peaked with MOO2 and MMVI. Not sure if its just b/c things were so new back then or b/c I'm just an old codger who had to walk in a blizzard to school uphill both ways :)



Graphics aren't all that important, to me at least, if I like the game story and theme I'll like the game. That's why I still keep playing Lords of the Realm II or M.A.X. which are rather old games.

Most of the new games have little to offer, other than great graphics along with bigger system requirements that demand new computer parts.

MMVI? Would that be Might and Magic VI?
MOO2? Master of Orion?

Better to play a good game with bad graphics than a bad game with good graphics. :)

[Gandalf Parker]

I just did a coiuple of weeks session of revisiting:
Diablo 2
Space Empires IV
Stars!

Now Im about to swing back to grab a couple of Dom3 games, return to the MUD I host (Shadowdale), and possibly return to the player-run Ultima Online world that I semi-host (Shazzys).

Considering present economic situations I love that some old games are so replayable. :)

Gandalf Parker
--
Get a life? No thanks. Just had one.
Im retired now and get to play games all day. (envy me)

[DonCorazon]

MMVI? Would that be Might and Magic VI?
MOO2? Master of Orion?

Better to play a good game with bad graphics than a bad game with good graphics. :)


Yep - and I totally agree.

[S.R. Krol]

That's the thing, there are so many older games that I can load up and get right into (or newer ones without much flash, like Stone Soup) and lose myself for hours while new games tend to bore me. First, too often they turn into a PITA just to play (bad DRM issues, driver problems, general bugginess, etc). Then once you do start playing you feel like you've played the game a thousand times before. Nothing original. And what I find amusing is that while today we have superior graphic capabilities every game looks the same! Go back ten years when the visuals had personality. Now you could pretty much drop any model from game X into game Y and it would look right at home. Bleh.

[Trumanator]

I'd still rather play DOW 2 than AoE... no offense or anything, but I think that there's still some originality left.

[Endoperez]

I'd still rather play DOW 2 than AoE... no offense or anything, but I think that there's still some originality left.

Age of Empires was released 1997, about the same time as: Warcraft 2 and Command & Conquer: Red Alert (1996), Total Annihilation (1997) and Starcraft (1998).

Besides Dawn of War, there're Company of Heroes, Dawn of War, Sins of a Solar Empire, World in Conflict... Some of these will probably be fondly remembered in 2019. Personally, I'll probably try to play these (for the first time) around that time, on my Windows 256, having lots of compatibility problems! :D

[Executor]

Weimaar,
Have you actually considered playing MP? Single player can only get you so far.

[weimaar]

No I havnt! Single player is great! Fabtastic. There is no game like dominons. Really none.

Now, how fare the dominion4 plans? Any news? Are the developers still mired in something else?

Ive circulated this idea before. How many of you people are prepared to pay a larger sum meaning 500-1000 USD to pay for wages for gifted programmers/modders to start the development of a Dominion clone since the developers are not interested? (I am!)

And by clone, i really mean clone, copy paste plus MAJOR overhaul of graphics and MINOR improvements since this is a design people are USED to and WORKS and is LOVED.

[Executor]

Hey weimaar! I was wondering when you'd shown up again, it's been over a year!

I've heard some rumors that someone is actually building an indipendant Dom4, that's all I can tell ya, not sure if it's true, you can pop by the IRC and ask around doe...

[Gandalf Parker]

The "word" is that "Dom4 is not in the pipeline".
It is NOT the secret project that Illwinter has done some work on.

If you want to ask about a possible 3rd party Dom4 project then your best bet would be either the Dom3Mod website
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?act=idx
or the SA IRC channel.

[weimaar]

Aaaah! Fabulous! Ill go ahead and do exactly that! Thanks for being missed and thanks for the tips :)

(I NEED a Dominions 4, need to see a universe where you in dominions 10 (made 10-15 years from now) can walk around in the streets of one of the towns, picking a fight with the local brigands, sitting on horseback shooting arrows at hydras, banding up with the local vampires and going out on a blood hunt and what have you not!)

[Zeldor]

Sure, give me 10 million $ and I will make you simple clone with ok graphics.

[weimaar]

Zeldor! Anyone could do a clone for 10 million USD. The question is to try to make it as good as possible as resourceful as possible and not ripping the games soul away while youre at it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive tracked, and still track, many efforts at recreating games. I will give you one tip that I have become quite convinced of. Try very very hard toward recreating the original first.

Ive seen some make it, and Ive seen many fail. And the failures all tend to go too far toward "improving" the game. They end up mired in the changes.

IF someone were to recreate Dom3 from scratch using a modern programming language and libraries then it would be a great start. IF some things that were not considered needed in the original and could not easily be added later such as a database structure, categories, expansive parameters, were included then the size that the game has grown to would not be a problem and would not get in the way of further growth.

IF the game was recreated from scratch and each variable was also builtin as a hook for external scripting then it would allow for expansion. AND (my favorite) IF every choice of speed over better AI was not chopped but was instead set off to a choice switch it would allow for longer hosting times when better results are desired (such as hosting).

THEN and only then should any conversation about changes occur. When a duplicate game has been created from scratch with future desired changes in mind and the code is written to allow those but not implemented. THEN a Dom4 project might be tackled.

Of course this is all just speculation and a pitch Ive given many games. The chances of this happening (legally) with Dom3 are very slim.

[TheConway]

Is there any reason they can't just release most of the game as mod commands? That would go a long way towards freshening up the game w/o requiring any work from the developers.

[Gandalf Parker]

uhhh they did. Much of the additions patched into Dom3 since its release was in modding. As far as I know, much of what is accessable by a command within the game is a switch, map, or mod command

[TheConway]

Yes, but there are still numerous aspects that are unmoddable, ESPECIALLY item modding.

[Gandalf Parker]

As far as I know, thats usually a sign that it cant be easily latched to a mod command.

[Zeldor]

Well, just recreating would be of course illegal.

Doing similar game would be challenging at least.

And I think that most people don't realize how expensive it would be. I don't think you could go below $500k for any reasonable graphics. And it's not something you can just throw on volunteers.

[Gandalf Parker]

It can be done. Ive seen some great remakes come out of SourceForge.net

And some of my favorite MMORPG games now can be run on private servers using player-made recreations of the software. (of course those re-use the graphics and such so its only half a win)

But it would be a huge project. And not likely to be profitable. And OMG the stress! Can you picture every argument we have had here being resurrected as part of a project like this?

[Zeldor]

Why not profitable? Dominion is great, but it has very bad UI, bad graphics and too much complexity. Of course we would not want less complexity, but you can always make 2 modes.

How many project out of sourceforge really get done? 1%? When it comes to 3d games it's probably even way less. And then you accept to have extremely long production cycle, many distractions [everyone has different vision] etc. I don't believe in project like that at all - and I have been involved in some really ambitious.

[Gandalf Parker]

The amount that would have to be put in versus the amount that could be made?
The more "fix" the less profit.

As for SourceForge and 1%, yes you have that pegged. But like I say often, everything has its pros and cons. The idea of open source and program by democracy are wonderful concepts. There are some fantastic success stories. But most dissolve or just fade out from in-group bickering.

Also against going that route is the idea that this projects goal would be to update Dominions. The more people, and the more discussion, the longer it takes to get things done. And time is why Dom is the way it is now that this project wants to fix. By the time an open source project for a Dom4 got done, the "updated UI, graphics and sound" would be as old-hat as Dom3 seemed when it came out. (not for the same reason, but the same symptom would occur)

I think Im an optimist and I love Dom. But I cant feel that what it would take to drive such a project thru in good time would be able to recoup the costs. There are a number of different routes that could be pursued (paying developers, or a big-boy style publisher willing to advance-invest, or both by letting someone with development studios and teams in place take it over) but I cant picture an improved Dom3 or even a Dom4 being a guaranteed result. It would be a gamble to break even.

Just my opinions of course.

[weimaar]

sounds all very reasonable and well thought through. Gandalf, may i ask what you do for a living? Would you want to become the head of a dom4 (dom3 with graphics makover, the way you describe it) project? Can you become the head of a dom4 project?

Woud it be possible to run this part time project based on donations? One can buy different part of the engine perhaps from other games? or use it from other games? Or ask of permission to get it from other sourceforge games?

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive done many jobs in wildly different fields. Email me if you want a list. :)
Im now multiply retired so I dont do anything. I have managed such projects in the past and might at one time have been tempted, but health issues make it impossible now to take on new commitments. In fact Im trying to pull out of the ones I still have.

As to the second paragraph...
Managing donated things has a headache factor to it. Managing donated moneys against donated resources against donated time and skills in a way to stay clear of any suspicion of misuse is something only a few people can do well. Ask any charity admin how 'easy' their job must be to get an earful of that. :) Its easier to use one donated factor to fuel the others as non-donated factors. Not sure if that was clear or not.

You can purchase engines which can vastly cut down the programming time. Some are specific for games. Im out of touch with that area so I cant recommend one. But I remember that the problem falls into the choice of language. Would you prefer to select the language and then search for libraries and programmers? or the other way around? AND what about operating system? Will you maintain the "Linux game ported to Windows and Mac" or go with the easier Windows environment then headache trying to avoid win specific things that might not port well to the others?

SourceForge is a good place to look. What is being used, what they might have developed for themselves. Asking there should be no problem. After all, they are all supposed to be open source so even asking is just a courtesy. (Id never recommend not asking, Im just saying that refusal is unlikely compared to other directions)

[WraithLord]

python has good libs for game dev. SPQR (http://www.pygame.org/project-S.P.Q.R.-257-2607.html)is a good example.

[weimaar]

So in other words, leave it to the proffessionals? :D

[WraithLord]

*sigh* making a good game is soooo difficult. And not all professionals are capable of producing a good game. IMO It's that rare combo of good programming capabilities+creativity+innovation+luck that leads to a good game.

Most games on the market today are soulless run-of-the-mill video game equivalent of junk food. Just my personal opinion, no offense intended.

[NTJedi]

*sigh* making a good game is soooo difficult. And not all professionals are capable of producing a good game. IMO It's that rare combo of good programming capabilities+creativity+innovation+luck that leads to a good game.

Most games on the market today are soulless run-of-the-mill video game equivalent of junk food. Just my personal opinion, no offense intended.

Junk food is being nice... I'd say many games are radioactive waste. Which means not only are they terrible in gameplay, but they install advertisements, push for account/registration activations, ugly DRM, and some even want monthly memberships.

Even when a company has good intentions, good developers, financial support, and an active community the game can still fail as what happened with Elemental. The biggest mistake made by game companies and developers is they place too high of a focus on graphics at the sacrifice of game content, game balance, game options, game strategy, game depth, etc., etc., . The end result is a very pretty looking piece of garbage.

[WraithLord]

Yes. It looks like the gaming industry has undergone some serious changes since its early roots in the 70-80s. Back then games were a niche and you'd see innovation and genious all over the place. Today the gaming industry ever more resembles the movie industry - mass production + lowest common denomenator are the name of the game: i.e. if it looks good + you can attach additional sources of revenue then you're doing good so who cares about content, creativity and innovation?- they are, alas, obsolete as they aren't revenue enginees.

[TheConway]

Eh, I don't think modern games are that terrible. Also, lets not pretend that all or even necessarily most games of the 70s-80s were super great (Daikatana). I look forward to the release of Diablo 3 right now, and personally I think Battlefield Bad Company 2 is great in its implementation of believable destructible environments. Or the very interesting and tactical play of League of Legends. There's not really any good RTS games that have held my attention recently, but I like SC2 from an SP perspective. I personally refuse to play any game that charges a monthly fee, which means I don't play any MMOs, but they're not all WoW. So forgive me, but I believe you're not giving modern game designers an even chance, and are letting nostalgia hide the absolute hideousness of some of the games from the days of yore.

[Stavis_L]

Also, lets not pretend that all or even necessarily most games of the 70s-80s were super great (Daikatana).

Um...Daikatana was released in 2000...

[WraithLord]

Ahmmm. let's see, MOM, CIV, LoM, starcon, dune, warcraft, HoMM, UFO, MOO, DotC, Disciples, Warlords, Kohan, AoW just to name a few. Show me same or even close level of innovation, creativity & content in a main stream game today.

I gave modern games a chance. Some are passable (HoMM V, Disciples III, Warhammer, Total War). Most IMHO are mediocre at best and downright crappy at worst. Oh and GFX has improved a lot no doubt - GFX is amazing but I'd rather watch a good movie than play a shallow click-festi game.

Perhaps the times have changed and I remain trapped in anachronistic expectations. Fact is, I only play old games: dominions, disciples, AoW & chess although I have a number of new games installed on my hard drive. Typically I'd start new game X, say wow to amazing gfx, play a bit, then get bored and annoyed by bugs, inconsistencies and shallow mechanism and end up never playing it again.

[TheConway]

Also, lets not pretend that all or even necessarily most games of the 70s-80s were super great (Daikatana).

Um...Daikatana was released in 2000...

Really? I never actually saw it, but the gaming mag I used to subscribe to talked about it like it was back in the mists of time :D Still, I'd rather play Red Alert 3 than C&C 1.

Edit: I didn't play a number of those games, but Civ just got better and better with the sequels. Warcraft was terrible, I would never subject myself to that now, or Dune. As for modern games, I think that the issue is more that you seem to prefer a genre that doesn't really exist anymore. Turn based games just aren't very common anymore. Just because a game like Starcraft 2 doesn't have the incredible amount of minutiae that a TBS can have doesn't make it a mindless clickfest, its just a constraint of the RTS genre where the player doesn't have TIME to micromanage as many features as a TBS has.

I highly doubt that the number of bugs and inconsistencies has really changed dramatically, that's just the way computer gaming is.

[Executor]

I tend to agree with WL, new games are mostly crap, and that's even a compliment for them.

[krpeters]

I'd like to add my two cents on the subject of game quality:

I think the reason games in the past had more depth was because they had to. If you have crappy graphics, you have to make up for it with game play or else there's little left to hold a player's attention. As graphics have improved, the visuals are enough to get people's attention, so they don't need gameplay quality anymore... so it's not there.

[Zeldor]

There were many games with depth, sure. But there were many crappy ones too. Some games were quite revolutionary, but you can't say they were better than newer versions. Civ1 was the worst of Civs. Same for most of games that got new version [well, Discples and HoMM got totally ruined].

We are certainly seeing much less trust from gamers to gaming industry. And gaming industry working hard to lose even more of it - suing pirates, adding DRM instead of making games people would really want to buy. Or dumbing down classic games. Really, why can't they just add new graphics to HoMM3 WoG? Sure, it won't appeal to many players, but instead of making uber stupid Homm5 and 6, they should make a proper HoMM and some other crap for those that can't play it.

[thejeff]

Oddly I remember hearing the same things at least a decade ago.

Including all the "it's just pretty pictures, where's the gameplay" rants.

A lot of it is Sturgeon's Law. It's also a matter of taste. 4X/TBS games are out of favor right now. Maybe that's linked to the mass market, maybe it isn't.

Some of it's economic. It's much better to sell lots of games that people won't play for very long than one that they'll play for years. (Unless you're getting online subscription fees.) Sure, you can sell add-ons and sequels, but you need a real big hit to make that work.

[JonBrave]

There were many games with depth, sure. But there were many crappy ones too. Some games were quite revolutionary, but you can't say they were better than newer versions. Civ1 was the worst of Civs.

I so don't get this. Civ I was the first computer game ever grabbed me, I thought it was great. For what it was, I thought it was the best. Civ II was more polished etc., Civ IV is the best now, but Civ I was the best for me, for what it did.

[Executor]

Well of course, it's all about the economics.
Better to make small, crappy games, that are more easily made and flip a few coins, than invest time (where time equals money :)) to make a proper all rounded up game which probably won't fetch a profit as big as some crappy games would have in the time invested. So every new game (mostly) offers a crappy old lousy play style and super awesome graphics, which is really what gets peoples attention (it glitters...)

Much like the frakking movie industry which is all about the special effects and getting a famous actor, not so much about the storyline...etc
sad, sad times... :(

[Zeldor]

Unfortunately subscription fees may be the only thing that can save good games - costs now are just extremely big. You can get over $100M for a game, so it's a budget like movies. And games like Medal of Honor have 4h campaign for $60. Well, and MP that get obsolete in few months. I would probably pay a monthly fee for a nice shooter [W:ET] that had good servers, constant new maps etc. I would pay a monthly fee for Dominions online too.

[sansanjuan]

Ahmmm. let's see, MOM, CIV, LoM, starcon, dune, warcraft, HoMM, UFO, MOO, DotC, Disciples, Warlords, Kohan, AoW just to name a few. Show me same or even close level of innovation, creativity & content in a main stream game today.

I gave modern games a chance. Some are passable (HoMM V, Disciples III, Warhammer, Total War). Most IMHO are mediocre at best and downright crappy at worst. Oh and GFX has improved a lot no doubt - GFX is amazing but I'd rather watch a good movie than play a shallow click-festi game.

Perhaps the times have changed and I remain trapped in anachronistic expectations. Fact is, I only play old games: dominions, disciples, AoW & chess although I have a number of new games installed on my hard drive. Typically I'd start new game X, say wow to amazing gfx, play a bit, then get bored and annoyed by bugs, inconsistencies and shallow mechanism and end up never playing it again.

Funny how I own 9 of those listed. That makes me wonder about the others..
-ssj

[WraithLord]

You should get them, they're great :D

Also, to prolong the list here are some more names: Archon, AdoM (+ angband, nethack etc), Dungeon keeper, Total annihilation, starcraft.

Also, dom I PPP with the so lovely feature of maps actually changing to reflect your spreading dominion - It's really nice to see your cold dominion creeping over ever larger stretches of the map :)

And Lords of Magic is worth another mention as it has a nice "groove" to it.

krpeters & Executor, I think your explanation makes sense. It seems I share your point of view.

thejeff, if it's 90% crap then where are the 10% quality games?- Please, please point me to a good FTBS made lately. Or let's raise the bar, to a good FTBS made by a big company lately.

Zeldor, there's an extra value to the playing an innovative game for the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect or polished but it would leave a lasting impression - like reading a great book with a twisting plot. It gets worst when the sequel is dumbed down or more buggy than the predecessor.

[TheConway]

Basically WL, I'm saying that the FTBS genre doesn't really exist anymore. I honestly can't think of one that has come out in the last couple years.

[thejeff]

I think that's the basic problem. Admittedly I don't pay a lot of attention to the gaming scene so there may well be some mainstream FTBS games, but 10% of a couple games is probably 0.

How many lousy FTBS games that we don't even remember came out back in the day?

[WraithLord]

Basically WL, I'm saying that the FTBS genre doesn't really exist anymore. I honestly can't think of one that has come out in the last couple years.

*sigh* sad but true

I just read an article today re. WoW basically praising bizzard for having come up with this golden eggs goose. So yeah, FTBS is dead. Long live the new king - pay by the month/hour/minute MMORPG.

I guess I'll be playing more dominions for the years to come, hope the player base would remain :)

[weimaar]

But when everything is said and done...I NEED DOMINIONS 4. Who else feels this way? And in the end, what are we going to do about it? What CAN we do about it?

[rdonj]

Find a game with a sufficiently pliable engine and mod it?

[nordlys]

Basically WL, I'm saying that the FTBS genre doesn't really exist anymore. I honestly can't think of one that has come out in the last couple years.

Eador. Basically Dominions meets HeroesM&M. N/A on english though.

[Dimaz]

So, we can translate it, as I proposed in another topic ) There's a lot of text there, though.

[jowe01]

"Elemental - War of Magic" is one FTBS game that has come out recently. Current version, 1.09, is still rather bugged, shows weak AI and generally does not seem to me to be better in any respect than e.g. AOW2. However, the developper seems to be dedicated to drive the game forward through patches, so there may be potential in it.

[WraithLord]

I'll probably aim to buy it @ next year's xmas offer.
For this year's Xmas I'd have wished for a new patch for dom with maybe a new nation (EA Machaka?, MA Bogarus?) :happy:

[ioticus]

I want those girls that want Dom3 in those ads :(

[Gandalf Parker]

Then you need to buy 5 Dom3's and give them to pretty girls.
We should ALL do that. :re:

[Knai]

Basically WL, I'm saying that the FTBS genre doesn't really exist anymore. I honestly can't think of one that has come out in the last couple years.

*sigh* sad but true

I just read an article today re. WoW basically praising bizzard for having come up with this golden eggs goose. So yeah, FTBS is dead. Long live the new king - pay by the month/hour/minute MMORPG.

I guess I'll be playing more dominions for the years to come, hope the player base would remain :)

TBS is still going strong, if not necessarily FTBS in particular. Look at Battle for Wesnoth, its not immensly deep by any stretch of the imagination, but for freeware it is incredibly impressive. It generated fairly massive interest as well. Civilization is still going strong, Elemental: War of Magic came out, and while they might not all be good, it shows that interest remains. An occasional gem gets spit out, just like every other medium and every genre within every medium.

[rdonj]

Then you need to buy 5 Dom3's and give them to pretty girls.
We should ALL do that. :re:

All the pretty girls I know already have dom 3 :(

[Soyweiser]

TBS is still going strong, if not necessarily FTBS in particular. Look at Battle for Wesnoth, its not immensly deep by any stretch of the imagination, but for freeware it is incredibly impressive. It generated fairly massive interest as well. Civilization is still going strong, Elemental: War of Magic came out, and while they might not all be good, it shows that interest remains. An occasional gem gets spit out, just like every other medium and every genre within every medium.

Not this discussion again.

I think you are wrong. Search the word niche on the forums, for my arguments and further discussion :).

[oldrocker99]

I'm not waiting for DOM4, but I sure wouldn't mind a 3.28 patch. Currently Illwinter is still patching Conquest of Elysium 3, and I presume that they'll eventually return to DOM3.

I hope...

[Admiral_Aorta]

why on earth would you bump this topic for such a vacuous post

[Soyweiser]

iirc there has been an update on the changelog page for dom3, so there will be another patch.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

iirc there has been an update on the changelog page for dom3, so there will be another patch.

Any ETA on its release?

[Gandalf Parker]

Nahh. They dont seem to operate that way. No schedules. No ETA's. Not even WAGs

They are more when they feel like it. Altho they do say that please and thank you makes a difference

[Soyweiser]

Yeah, but I only say please and thank you when I mean it, not when I try to get something from somebody.

[Admiral_Aorta]

my speech becomes nothing but an endless screaming cacophony of please and thank you when i want things

[nordlys]

Eador. Basically Dominions meets HeroesM&M. N/A on english though.

Apologies for necroing and not so subtle advertising, but yesterday, Eador was finally released in english through GOG.com. Goes for 5 bucks first week.

(and there is a sequel/remake in the works, trying to be steam-greenlighted, but that's something for the future)

[Soyweiser]

Eador. Basically Dominions meets HeroesM&M. N/A on english though.

Apologies for necroing and not so subtle advertising, but yesterday, Eador was finally released in english through GOG.com. Goes for 5 bucks first week.

(and there is a sequel/remake in the works, trying to be steam-greenlighted, but that's something for the future)

Adding links would make it even less subtle.

[Edi]

Original: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/eador_genesis
Sequel: http://www.facebook.com/MastersOfTheBrokenWorld (most up to date info)

[Bullock]

Original: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/eador_genesis
Sequel: http://www.facebook.com/MastersOfTheBrokenWorld (most up to date info)

Graphics are appealing (to me ;) ). Does any dom3 vet planning to try it ? and maybe comment/rate it ?

[Edi]

Saw that yesterday, and given how Masters of the Broken World had been on my to-follow list since February, it was an instant buy.

Now, to sign up for Snowbird Games and see if I can get into the MoBW beta... :D

Yeah, I'll give Eador a few spins. But if we talk about it here, we should have a separate OT thread for it.

[Edi]

Saw that yesterday, and given how Masters of the Broken World had been on my to-follow list since February, it was an instant buy.

Now, to sign up for Snowbird Games and see if I can get into the MoBW beta... :D

Yeah, I'll give Eador a few spins. But if we talk about it here, we should have a separate OT thread for it.

[Jrandom]

No Dom4 here. Tried it. More like Heroes of Might and Magic with the tech tree of an RTS. Each game you complete unlocks a few buildings that you can use in the next game. I am on my second game (shard) and am already losing interest. It feels like an MMO level grind to unlock things.

[nordlys]

No Dom4 here. Tried it. More like Heroes of Might and Magic with the tech tree of an RTS. Each game you complete unlocks a few buildings that you can use in the next game. I am on my second game (shard) and am already losing interest. It feels like an MMO level grind to unlock things.

The campaign is kinda slow at times. The remake is going to have less filler shard conquest in between campaign events.

You might find the skirmish-type mode more to your liking (under "single player"). One randomly generated shard of possibly enormous size with up to 15 opponents and all buildings are unlocked.

[Jrandom]

Ok, I will try that.

Out of curiosity, what does the game provide that makes it similar to Dom3? I see the HoM&M parallel, just not Dom.

[nordlys]

Ok, I will try that.

Out of curiosity, what does the game provide that makes it similar to Dom3? I see the HoM&M parallel, just not Dom.

Risk-style global map (well, it is fairly common to strategy games in general, but not that common among the fantasy ones, which all tend to be action points map movement) and the need to search your provinces for cool hidden stuff are primary similarities.

Minor ones are gems as spellcasting resource and the fact your role is of a pretender god of sorts :)