Amoscalypse Now - FFA Mod game (1 spot is open!)

[lch]

There has been an interest in playing a "free for all" mod nations game from a number of players, so I'll be hosting one for 6-8 nations. The idea is to have ANY mod nation in that you want, completely unchanged, and you get to play them against other mod nations. No whining about missing balance, because there won't be any attempt by me or others to enforce it. Take any of those mod nations that are perceived as "overpowered" compared to standard nations, like Urdheim, The Infinite Horde (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=530358&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) or any of Amos' mods (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3smm&Number=495854&page=0 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) or whatever other mod nation you want, even fun stuff like Mushroom Kingdom (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=480004&page=2&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) is welcome. No Conceptual Balance, bash your opponents head in with the most powerful arsenal you got!

Requirements: The mod nation should be finished and playable, and be some effort at modding. No shabby last-minute mod nation you just throw out right now to win this game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Total number of players will depend on the mods we use, since the game has limitations that I can't ignore. At least six nations would be able to play together in any case, I think. Era and map are yet undecided, but I guess I'll aim for a wraparound map, maybe one of DireAussie's creations. Hosting will be at 48 hours quickhosting again, with turn notification via email and web stats like usual.

If you wanna join, then sign up here and say which mod nation you want to play, the more powerful the better... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Please provide a link to the mod thread in case it isn't on the mod list yet, too. I'll create a mod for this game which has everything in it you need to play when we have decided on nations - grab your spot while you can! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Current players can be found at the last page (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=550669#Post549249).

[lch]

I guess an explanation is in order for the uninitiated who didn't hear about this idea before: Dom3 has a number of people who take a lot of effort to get new nations into the game which aren't there by default. There are some very beautiful creations around in the "Dom 3 Scenarios, Maps and Mods" forum. However, many of these creations are aiming to create a fun new single player game, and are not on par with the base nations. Trying to get them on the same power level as base nations would mean to greatly lobotomize the nation from the original version. So they would hardly see any action in MP games, which is a shame considered that there are some very beautiful creations around that fall into this category. So, the idea is to have a fun game instead of a serious one, allow anything, and hope that people picking the most powerful mods (or diplomacy) balances it out again.

And mod creators can try out their own mods against other mods in a semi-serious game... (hint hint, DrPraetorius!)

The game name is courtesy of Sombre, by the way... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Sombre]

Just thought I'd point out that Sensori has reserved Mushroom Kingdom for himself, provided that I mod in a Cillit Bang! spell.

And remember that I (very likely) didn't make any of these nations, so don't come crying to me if they go wrong, hahah. I suggest playtesting whichever nation you fancy playing in the game before it actually starts and remember we won't be using Conceptual Balance Mod or making any effort to keep things balanced. Choose a vanilla balanced nation at your own peril! Actually, you should probably try to pick one that's likely to be overpowered, or you'll get eaten alive. I suggest Amos' mods, from any age, because they have been tested against each other and follow his own balance standards.

[LoloMo]

Ok I'm in with Amos's Seraphim: Angelic Crusade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Sombre]

Count me in with Amos' Stigian Corruption (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=460770&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) nation.

[Nikolai]

I was told a joke, that I did not get. Does anyone know why "Just ask for any of Cohen's mod" is funny?

I want to try the Kobolds (Urdheim)

[Folket]

sorry

[llamabeast]

According to Sombre's post Sensori has reserved Mushroom Kingdom Folket.

Just passing through...

[Xox]

What a great idea! Count me in for this game.

Still looking at possibilities but I to reserve the Blood Elves for now. i have a question. Must I choose the Prince of many Faces as my pretender for this mod? The mod maker says something to that effect in the thread Is that just a suggestion, a good idea, or a rule for this mod?

[Sombre]

I don't think there are any rules, really. So it's up to you based on what he said in the original thread.

[lch]

Yup, Sensori called dibs on Mushroom Kingdom, Folket. You could ask him if he'd leave it to you or you could chose another mod nation from the mod list. There are still lots of nice ones available, even if your favorite one is taken.

I'll update the top post with the current players now...

[LoloMo]

I change my mind, I'll use Magoserium by Uh-Nu-Buh
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=477978&page=1&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Morkilus]

Wow. Good luck with this, guys; I'll be following this one.

[Gandalf Parker]

This will be interesting. It wont be fair, but at this time I dont think anyone can predict the result. I take it that lch will be doing editing to allow the mods to share a game where needed? (unit numbers, age, etc). Gods will have to be mailed in? Will you combine the mods into one big mod for the players to download before making the god (it might change numbers)

I have some sloppy batches of wrapped maps available online. 125, 200, and 1500 provinces so far. Not quite up to "grab and play" quality but if you see one you like it will save alot of work using it as a base map to build off of. Let me know if you would like me to work in a particular direction next (size, colors, provinces, etc)

[Nikolai]

Definitely wrapped map! Everything else is but too unfair.

[Sombre]

If you're worried about fairness, I feel I should warn you that this just isn't the game for you. The mods are in all probability going to be completely unbalanced against each other. There could well be pretenders starting with awe 4 fear 4 fireshield, H4, dom 6, EFD 4 for 100 points. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that no care is being taken by lch or myself to ensure any kind of balance here.

To answer your technical questions Gandalf, it'll be done in much the same way as the previous two mod games. One combined mod available for download once everyone has picked, followed by mailing of pretenders. The combined mod will eliminate all ID conflicts and possibly have to trim down some descriptions to get past the description bug, but nothing else.

This time it's basically all on lch. I get to sit back and relax. No balance work or testing to be done :]

[Gandalf Parker]

It could be alot of fun playing the mods against each other.
Maybe the Trolls mod, or False Dawn.

[Wikd Thots]

Gandalf Parker said:
It could be alot of fun playing the mods against each other.
Maybe the Trolls mod, or False Dawn.


HAHAHAHA
You old hacker you! It took me some trying to find these. Do the rest of them work also? The devils mod would be fun.

I claim Rlyeh: False Dawn

[Sombre]

You'll need to link to it then.

[calmon]

I never played a mp game with nation mods so i'll try this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Give me the insectoids. All power to the hive!

[Evilhomer]

yeah give me Theran Empire, Horror scourge.

[Wikd Thots]

Sombre said:
You'll need to link to it then.


Oh yeah. Sorry.


Requirements: The mod nation should be finished and playable, and be some effort at modding. No shabby last-minute mod nation you just throw out right now to win this game..


Many years ago, reportedly before the atlantis enslavement project, frail starspawns assassinate their opponent in they dream, driven their enemy out by the noctambulism phantasmatic army. Unseen conquerors shocked entire world, solons resultant their force to cut off the arcane passage, which created by R'lyeh elder, linking to the dreamworld, and strike R'lyeh empire in the real realm at the same time. After the great war, R'lyeh been sealed in the hadal deepwater, fallin a lengthy sleep and bide their's time...
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/falsedawn.zip

[Gandalf Parker]

Wikd Thots said:

Gandalf Parker said:
It could be alot of fun playing the mods against each other.
Maybe the Trolls mod, or False Dawn.


HAHAHAHA
You old hacker you! It took me some trying to find these. Do the rest of them work also? The devils mod would be fun.

I claim Rlyeh: False Dawn


Only a couple work. And not always the way they were meant to.

In the early days of beta testing it seemed logical to first try out all the Dom2 maps and mods since there werent any yet for Dom3. I was more interested in the maps. I think I remember that most of the nation mods failed with "no holiness" or "bad unit number". Probably fixable by some mod person

[llamabeast]

That description for the False Dawn is completely incomprehensible!

[Sombre]

If that's a dom2 mod (sort of looks like it is) then you'll need to get it working with dom3 before it can be used in this game.

I'm not sure we're allowing UW nations either, by the way. But that's up to lch.

I just looked in the zip for False Dawn and damn that shiny silver sphere icon is used for a lot of flags. I haven't tested it but the mod kinda seems thrown together.

[Wikd Thots]

Thats why I called G an old hacker. Finding a surprise like that.

I was going by Lch post. It looked like he chose NOT to say "only on the approved mod list" so we could find some surprises that you didn't know about. But if you want us to use Amos AI mods then I will start looking at those.
I withdraw my False Dawn choice

[Sombre]

There is no 'approved mod list'. The mod list was/is just a list of the mods in the Mods and Maps subforum. I tried to keep my personal bias out of it.

Amos' nations aren't AI nations. An AI nation would be designed specifically for the AI, like the AI Mictlan I made. Amos' nations just don't use Dom3 vanilla balance.

I think it was implied that you had to pick a dom3 mod (or at least one that actually work with dom3). If it's a dom2 mod that doesn't work with dom3 you might as well be claiming Counter Strike, Rome: Total Realism or Action Quake as your nation.

Feel free to find mods I know nothing about, as long as they work (properly) in dom3.

[Gandalf Parker]

The Dom2 mods of False Dawn and Trolls do work in Dom3
The others would need some small fixing if I remember right

[lch]

I guess we have enough players now, drafting is closed.

I certainly don't disallow water nations, it's just that there are not many UW mod nations. Amos mods are not mandatory, too, but there are lots of them and they are what this game is about: Mod nations that are too powerful for base game.

About False Dawn, I haven't played them, but I think that with them you'll be no match against the heavy guns that the others will have. And I'll just rule you out by saying that this is not what I'd call a great effort at modding (sorry, void) considering this seems to be a very first mod of somebody and it doesn't have any new graphics. Not that it would need them to be good, but this game should play differently, you should see foes you haven't seen before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

If they work as dom3 mods, you can pick them. Test them before to make sure though.

'Trollheim' is a predecessor of Vaettiheim SE and a very simple mod. I guess it's complete enough to count as a nation mod though, if anyone wants to use it. I can tell you it would get utterly crushed in this game.

Edit: Looks like lch has spoken. Trollheim and False Dawn don't make the cut.

[Wikd Thots]

Starting to sound like the IRC channel.
Never mind. Pull me out as a player.

[lch]

Wikd Thots said:
Starting to sound like the IRC channel.


Huh? What do you mean?

You can play what you want, I can just tell you that you're very likely going to make a very short impression on the game against the other nations if you don't draw level with them.

Anyway, I want to start the game. If somebody else wants to join then he can feel free to, but at least for playtesting and pretender design I'll create the preliminary mod now.

[lch]

It will take me some time to prepare the preliminary mod, as DrP's awk script fails yet again... (this time, with autosummons and some other stuff in the army lists)

I'll do it by hand again, but will catch some sleep first.

[Xox]

IF the new patch eta is within a week or two, we should wait for that, I think.

[HoneyBadger]

Two weeks ought to be just enough time for me to outfit my dero with submachine guns and to give the Great Death the ability to domsum abominations... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Morkilus]

Steampunk Dominions would make my day. Don't tease, HB!!!

[Sombre]

Morky: Juzza already made a mod based on the steampunk themed game Arcanum, called Tarent I believe.

If we wait for the patch, it could end up taking months. Better to just start and deal with the patch when it arrives and probably breaks all the mods again :]

[Tuidjy]

Guys, if you can wait for two weeks, I will join with Sylvania. Yes, I know
it is not in the same weight class as the rest of the mods, but surely there is
a place of a nation of peaceful, shy forest dwellers who are open to trade?

Friends with everyone, too useful to destroy, and great scouts. I want to have a
front seat to observe the epic battles between the big boys...

[Sombre]

I think we have enough people already and Sylvania would just get flattened horribly. No point in trading with them if you can just splatter all their armies and grab their lands.

There are also issues with graphics and descriptions if you have too many mod nations at once.

[Tuidjy]

No worries. The graphics issue is an important one. But I dare say that weak
nations led by a supercombatant can surprise anyone ;-)

[Gandalf Parker]

Sounds designed as a perfect ally for some armor-heavy nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But Im guessing there is a reason Sombre came up with the name Amos calypse.
Since those are balaced to each other, but imbalanced for vanilla Dom3 nations, they tend to be better for use as AI's or for playing against each other.

[Sombre]

Eh,.. I don't think you quite appreciate what you're dealing with here. Let's say you took a SC wyrm as your pretender, gave him dom 10, magic for buffs etc. Pretty nasty shock for someone in the early game, right? And you'd be able to take at least ok scales.

Well, let's look a potential build from me. The pretender for my chosen nation, Stigian Corruption, has 4 armour negating attacks all with the secondary effect of soul slay. He is also ethereal, H4, immortal, stealthy,.. that's before buffs. I can also build units (units, not commanders) with two soul slay effect melee attacks and defence 37 out of the box. Did I mention they're sacred and cost only one resource? Not that it would matter, because I get 60 free resources a turn from a site in my cap. The site also gives me 6 astral pearls by the way :]

Vanilla SC pretenders aren't exactly worrying.

[Gandalf Parker]

But why lay all that out at the beginning of the game hwen you are trying to get people to join? Its very nice of you, but kindof counter productive.

[Wikd Thots]

lch said:

Wikd Thots said:
Starting to sound like the IRC channel.


Huh? What do you mean?

You can play what you want, I can just tell you that you're very likely going to make a very short impression on the game against the other nations if you don't draw level with them.


Thank you. That is exactly what I meant. What old wimpy "can't say anything is wrong" calls countar productive is what I call egotistical.

That is what kills the IRC channel. Hey everyone, come join IRC and play blitzes. Newbies welcome, we will teach you. But when a game is setting up and a newbie declares then the experts rate it like a bookie figuring a point spread. The game is won before it is played. Newbies leave and don't come back.

What good is it to start a game with everyone bringing your own favorite mod nation if the only acceptable choices are Amos mods? They are great for this purpose and it will be an interesting game but why not just say Amos Only at the beginning instead of killing any interest ahead of time in using any other? Besides that there IS a chance that even YOU might be surprised. One of the others might add something interesting to the game. Maybe even win? (no of course not)

[Sombre]

I'm not trying to get people to join. Quite the reverse, I'm explaining to Tuidjy that he'd be wasting his time playing Sylvania in this game. Besides, we already have enough people to start and they're mostly using nations with similarly overpowered stuff.

I'm not revealing any strategy. This is all stuff they'd find out in 5 minutes if they looked in some of the mods that have been picked.

If simply telling people about the units in an available mod that will be in the game is counter productive then I wonder what you would consider 'productive',....

Perhaps refusing to share any information on the mod? Ensuring that I win by picking/creating the most overpowered mod possible? Duping people into entering a knife fight with a toothpick?

All of the above seem counter productive to me.

[Nikolai]

You know, I think it is too heavy for me. Gandalf is right, no point is playing against this. Urdheim is strong, but that described God is insane. The troops just as much.

I wait for the combined mod to look at, but I could give up after I see other mods. I looked at Angels and one other, and they were scary, but not insane. I laughed at Cohen's Crusaders when Petar showed them, but now I think I did not see the worst.

Sorry, but games are for fun. Wrestling T-34 is not fun.

-----------

I looked at Stigian Corruption. I am out.

[Gandalf Parker]

I only meant "counter productive" to getting the game started. Not to the quality of the game. I know that you were helpfully offering expert opinion.

And Wikd.. (again) do not repaint my words please.
And as far as the IRC channel goes, I have found that the gathering of experts there is quite useful. I especially recommend it to anyone who has an idea for a nation/god/build/tactic that they would like a critique on.

[Wikd Thots]

RAAZZZZZZberry!
It still sounds like you are all saying the same thing I did but just did not like the way I said it.

IRC is great for getting helpful expert opinions

Just try not to get it before going into the game unless you want convinced not to even try it

[Sombre]

Wikd Thots said:
Thank you. That is exactly what I meant. What old wimpy "can't say anything is wrong" calls countar productive is what I call egotistical.




What's egotistical about it? No-one's saying they're better players, just that the mods are of clearly different power levels. Which you'd know, if you looked at them.



That is what kills the IRC channel. Hey everyone, come join IRC and play blitzes. Newbies welcome, we will teach you. But when a game is setting up and a newbie declares then the experts rate it like a bookie figuring a point spread. The game is won before it is played. Newbies leave and don't come back.




The IRC channel isn't dead. It's going strong and new people are still joining it, discussing, chatting and, yes, joining blitzes. I've never seen anyone behaving in the way you describe, either.



What good is it to start a game with everyone bringing your own favorite mod nation if the only acceptable choices are Amos mods? They are great for this purpose and it will be an interesting game but why not just say Amos Only at the beginning instead of killing any interest ahead of time in using any other? Besides that there IS a chance that even YOU might be surprised. One of the others might add something interesting to the game. Maybe even win? (no of course not)



The very first post points out both Urdheim and Mushroom Kingdom as well as Amos' mods. Yes, Amos' mods were in mind when this game was created, because he's the most prolific nation mod maker and people really enjoy his stuff, yet no MP to my knowledge has ever been played using his nations. They are generally speaking highly overpowered, but so are a number of other mod nations, including (apparently) Magoserium, which has been picked for the game. The name was a hint though.

I can't say for sure which nation will win, or even do well, but I do know that nations like Sylvania which were intended to be balanced with dom3 and (sort of) are will just get steamrollered. If you call that egocentric, fair enough. Have you actually compared Sylvania with, say,.. Stigian Corruption, though? Because you seem like you're just running your mouth for the sake of it. Some perceived slight from the IRC channel maybe?

By the way, I think the main reason lch rejected False Dawn was because it has no new graphics, which makes it considerably less interesting than other mods.

[Sombre]

IIRC Urdheim has its own Pretender which is uberpowerful and some pretty mad summoning ability as well. It might not be on the same level as one of the Amos mods though.

If people are having a look at the mods they'll be up against and dropping out, that's only fair. Slots open for more people and perhaps this will turn into an all/mostly Amos mod game, I have no idea.

If you have your heart set on Urdheim in a MP game but you don't fancy this one, I'm sure a chance to play them will come up in a later game :]

[Gandalf Parker]

Very interesting. I will take a look at Urdheim. It sounds good for a scenario project.

Any other mod nations besides this Urdheim and Amos's that you would consider as being too powerful for a lone vanilla nation?

[Sombre]

I believe Mushroom Kingdom is overpowered, I was told Magoserium is overpowered, the non CBM version of Hoburg Kingdom is pretty much overpowered,... I would argue Haida Gwaii is also slightly overpowered and so is Sylvania, arguably.

There are others, have a look around. I try to avoid them generally speaking so I'm not an expert on them. Shovah actually might have better knowledge of such nations.

[Nikolai]

On a scale where LA Man is 10, and LA C'tis 13...

Sylvania is 15.
Angelic Crusade is 20.
Urdheim is 25.
Stigian Corruption is 300.

I was greedy, I wanted to win. But I am also a coward so I run away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Tuidjy]

I also looked at Stigian Corruption, and damn, this mod has incredible graphics.
I wish the author would make an effort to balance it against regular races.
It is nowhere near balanced against overpowered nations, either. And I dare say
that the 37 defense is a simple bug. The defense and protection values on that
particular armour seem to have been switched. :-) But even if they were switched
back, it would still be nonsensically good.

But I have to admit Sombre is absolutely right. I believe that with good diplomacy
Sylvania can survive in a world that includes the like of Magoserium and Angelic
Crusade. As a matter of fact I think Sylvania is not particularly weak against the
latter. But against Stigian Corruption? No way.

Is Amos still active? Do those who have had contact with him think that he may
apply his incredible artistic talent into some balanced mods?

And now I am off to test Stygian Abyss in battle. I wonder whether the graphics
will look as good as they do against a monochrome background.

[Sombre]

Angelic crusade isn't hugely overpowered?

I haven't looked at them in detail but I was under the impression they were pretty damn crazy. For instance their pretender is H4, immortal, fireshielded, awe 4, fear 3, pathcost 20, dominion 5, healer (100%), flying, forgebonus 50%, causes eyeloss, fire poison and shock immune, standard 20 and max normal and magic leadership.

If you gave him dom10 anyone striking him would have to pass by huge awe, eyeloss, a 10 point fire blast, fear (+3) and ethereality. That's before buffs. Oh and he's att 14 def 14 base, with an aoe6 weapon called Wrath that does armour negating damage and has a nasty secondary effect.

Let's have a look at Urdheim's best god. For less than half the price of the above god you get,... immortal, flying, siegebonus, cold immune, (poor) ampibious, poison immune, poison cloud 15, fear 10 (!!!), D3, dominion 2, pathcost 50, 180 base hp, base 13 prot, att 18 str 28,....

I don't think he's that outclassed. Fear 10 plus whatever you take for death and immortality means you can just drop him on armies and watch them all run away the second he kills one of them, which he will with his stats.

[Tuidjy]

Heh. The Angelic Crusade Pretender you describe costs 455 points. Sure, you can
build him. And then you're either stuck waiting for him to show up, or you end up
playing a nation with really crappy scales, and that's without any magic paths.
And the troops of Angelic Crusade may be strong, but not "out of this world,
freaking insane, gifted with incomprehensible stats" which is what Stygian
Corruption troops are. No, Angelic Crusade is a nation that would take some
finesse to play, especially if you want to be viable in late game.

As for Urdheim, did you see me mentioning them when I talked about a world where
Sylvania could survive? Yes, they are grossly overpowered. Nikolai insulted hem
by putting them at 25, but then, he had chosen them, hadn't he? Still Urdheim
are not in the same category. Urdheim does not have units with defense 37 (WTF?)
human warriors who are given defense 17 (just because they are so elite)
berserking tramplers with encumberance 1, regeneration, and immunity to mind
attacks (because of course tramplers are so underpowered that they really need
these three weaknesses removed) Even their deformed freaks have strength 23 and
berserk +3, twice a human's hps, twice the attacks, recuperation... for the
well researched and very appropriate price of a human elite.

Urdheim's units are quite underpriced, and his summoners are too numerous.
Stygian Corruption's units do not belong in Dominions III.

[Sombre]

Guess Amos has changed them since I last downloaded a version of the angelic crusafe mod, because in the version I'm looking at the Demiurge pretender is 350 points. I don't think you'd need good scales when he can basically fight entire nations on his own :]

I'll admit I didn't look over the angelic troops too closely, but I did take a look at their commanders and I find it hard to believe you'd really need good troops if you had a few of those badboys. I assumed they were of roughly comparable strength with Stigian Corruption to be honest, but it seems it's not really the case. Still very powerful though.

Urdheim might not be in the same class as Stigian corruption, but I can imagine them actually putting up and fight and being able to take part in a gangpile on a stronger nation. Sylvania? No chance. They have overpowered pretenders and looking at the mod games so far it seems some of their troops are rather overpowered as well, but they aren't on the level of Urdheim or Angelic Crusade and those may well be two of the weaker nations picked so far.

Just so everyone knows, I picked Stigian Corruption completely at random from a list of Amos' mods. I wasn't going for the most powerful/broken one or anything like that; I just liked the name. If Stigian Corruption is way stronger than anything else, I can simply pick another Amos mod. They're all very interesting and weird.

[Morkilus]

Is this game about to start?

[Nikolai]

I think Peter meaned that with dominion 10 you specified. I also think that for a really good game, some balancing needs to be done. Not volunteering :-p

By the way, in the duel Sylvania vs Angelic Crusade we fought, Sylvania won. Both times, with Pantocrator and without, and with players switched, too. We are playing on lunch break again - Urdheim and Sylvania VS Stigian Corruption on Panganos.

[Sombre]

Pantocrator?

Yeah with dom10 that pretender would be pretty pricey. It's still completely broken though.

I guess your duel would suggest Sylvania can take part in a game with Angelic Crusade level mods. They are themselves rather overpowered (I nerfed them, but perhaps not enough, in my CBM version). Is Angelic Crusade merely the runt of Amos' uberpowered litter though? And what about magoserium and Mushroom kingdom?

Are you teaming up against an AI Stigian Corruption? I doubt the AI will actually be that good with the nation - it would take a human to exploit their crazy stuff.


Finally, to be clear: I am NOT doing any balancing for this game - I did it with the other two mod games and I'll probably do it in a number of future mod games, but this one was supposed to be completely free from interfering, balance changes etc. That was pretty much the whole point - let people use some of the really cool mods that just aren't balanced for dom3. Specifically there has always been a lot of interest in Amos' nations.

If there's a demand, I can CBM balance any nation without 'ruining' it. I'm sure of that. So if people want a balanced version of an Amos nation, I am entirely willing to do it. It will take some thinking and messing around and a few releases I'm sure, but it's totally doable.

[Evilhomer]

Im going to step down from this game - just to likely the nations will be way to unbalanced for me to enjoy the game.

[Sombre]

Doh.

Maybe we should rethink this game? It's kind of falling apart at the moment. There was quite a bit of interest in a free for all mod game, but maybe people didn't realise how unbalanced it was actually going to be...

Those of you who are stepping down, would you be interested in the third balanced mod game, should it be made?

[Nikolai]

> Those of you who are stepping down, would you be interested in the third balanced mod game, should it be made?

Yes.

And some info. Sylvania and Urdheim beat Stigian Corruption below 20 turns. We could not play to end, but outcome was clear. Elves raiding&fading, the Stigian God won everything but could not catch all, the Stigian troops die hard but cost much, Harlekins deadly, but again, can't catch all... and both Urdheim and Sylvania rule on traps/shooty armies. And Stigian Corruption was player, not AI.

Balance is hard. I get a lot of respect for Sylvania. And Urdheim should be Uberheim!

[Morkilus]

I thought the whole point was to play an unbalanced game. If the combined mod works without bugs, let's play. Who cares; I'll take Homer's spot if you need another one.

[Xox]

Yeazh, I am still in, this game is going to be lots of fun. If people drop out and we need more, ask for more players. I am pretty sure there are people who dont mind an unbalanced game.

Unbalance creates its own diplomatic dynamic.

Having said all the above I do have to admit, I would like to ask Amos if he is still around ( not, right?) if that 37 Defense on the Stigian Corruption unit is what he meant or a typo, because it does seem like a typo.

I also think if someone is brave enough to want to play whatever nation they want, I say let them. As long as they are not going to drop out in 20 turns amidst whining about imbalance. They must be sincere and have some heart.

[lch]

Admittedly, I have not looked at the nations chosen yet, especially not Sombre's choice, so I am still under the impression that even if one of the nations is more powerful than the others, alliances will even it out again - even if he has an impossibly powerful god, that god can't be everywhere at all times, can he?

Wikd, it seems you didn't get what this game is about, and that is to bash at each other with excessively powerful stuff, nothing like that mod that you picked. I warned you to save you the frustration in advance, and I'd still let you play the mod if you want, I just don't think you will have any fun in doing so. I don't understand how that advice is a bad thing. If a balanced game with mod nations is what you are looking for, I have already two games like that running and as long as there is interest I will continue to host games like that. Those are a challenge to everybody.

Okay, sorry for taking my time, I had to setup my system from scratch again, which took most of my week from me. The combined mod should be ready soon, now that I have Dom3 running on my new system again... Then you can try out if a combined effort from all of you could defeat Sombre's nation of choice or not, and then we can assess that situation. Please don't throw in the towel before that, this was never meant to be a serious game to be won by skill, anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Everyone on Sombre? We'll see if you can take me, bwahahahah.

[lch]

Okay, sorry for taking so long folks, here is now the preliminary mod for the game so people can try out the nations in a game together: http://www.mediafire.com/?1ulr1nfienz

I put them all into late age. Unpack the file into your mods folder, enable one of the two mods in your game preferences (one has the 7 chosen nations, the other one has the Seraphim from Angelic Crusade as a bonus nation, too), then create a new game.

Because of nations with not too many new units like Insectoids and Magoserium, we have no problems at all with the descriptions for the seven nations that have been picked. That's why I added some other nation - if I include the Seraphim, for example, then only some nation descriptions are missing that you only see during pretender creation anyway. I have to say that these mod nations together are looking very very interesting, I think.

EDIT: Fixed the link http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[lch]

Now that I created the combined mod I finally had a look at the mod nations, too, and I want to comment on that Nephilim hype:

I don't think that the situation is as bad as Nikolai and some others make it sound. Yes, the Nephilim look scary. They have insane def, they have attacks with a Soul Slay as secondary effect. But that doesn't make them unbeatable. Sure, they are overpowered compared to a normal game, but so are the other nations, too. (Except Mushroom Kingdom. That's only in there for the giggles, I think its power level is about vanilla game) First of all, having seen it happen in games against other powerful nations in base game all the time, diplomacy is a powerful thing. If two or three people ally up against somebody, then usually he has no chance but to eventually lose. They can overpower him by numbers alone and make his economy go haywire, leading to his eventual downfall. Now, about those Nephilim. Yeah, they have insane def, they have powerful weapons, but they're not invulnerable. High Def means that you have to either a) swarm them or b) exhaust them or use other means of attack, like ranged attacks. They do have zero prot, after all, so they are naturally VERY vulnerable to ranged attacks. The Soul Slay effect of their weapons is intimidating, too, but at least you can MR resist it. If a Jotun hits you then usually you just die, too. So you say, they are sacred. They can be abused with an air/earth bless. That's true. But they're still very expensive. Look at their gold price. They're well worth the money, but it's a very limiting factor for them. Their national god is scary, too, funny thing is that he wasn't restricted to that nation so everybody could recruit it before... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I fixed that, of course. And then there is the downside: it's a blood nation with sacrifice dom. Their freespawn never heals. Lots of those other nations have way better freespawn, I think.

So to make it short now, I don't think that the Nephilim are that much out of the league like the hype made it sound. And no matter how powerful the individual units might be, they won't be able to overpower an alliance. So please calm down, have some test games (and not just against indies) and try to design a pretender for your nation for the game, yes? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S.: As said before, Mushroom Kingdom is not as powerful as the others, IMHO, I'd say they could be used in a vanilla EA game. Those Seraphim that I added are what Amos considers the "most balanced nation" of his creations, too.

[lch]

whoops, bad link, it's fixed now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sombre]

Sensori agreed to play if he got this spell. So here it is.

---- Cillit Bang!

#newspell
#copyspell "Sulphur Haze"
#name "Cillit Bang!"
#descr "How do you do it, Allan? Do you perhaps drink Cillit Bang? This water is BANG! And my bird is gone! George, you still filling your water with volcanicity? And making Cillit Bang for breakfaaast!"
#restricted 73
#researchlevel 0
#precision 10
#path 0 1
#pathlevel 0 1
#pathlevel 1 0
#range 40
#end

Bang!

[llamabeast]

That must be some in joke I completely don't understand.

[Morkilus]

If anyone understands Sensori, they have not yet spoken up.

[Sensori]

So you want to understand where that's coming from? Here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hvBNBiE0lI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2AsmE3vuaw

But in this case, knowledge might add to your pain, especially if you don't find things that make absolutely no sense funny. And you know what the Vorlons say, "Understanding is a three edged sword"!

[lch]

So, could I please get a response from those that signed up for the game if they really intend to play in this game, and in that case get pretenders until the next weekend?

In case somebody wants to drop out, no problem with that, we could get some other player interested in joining the game.

[LoloMo]

I'm definitely in! I'll send in my pretender before the weekend comes.

[calmon]

I'm still in Ich. Did you already provide an email adress for sending the pretender?

[lch]

please use this address to send in your pretenders:
http://i15.tinypic.com/6extwyh.png

[Xox]

I am in still, will get my pretender in soon

[Sombre]

It'll be ready by the weekend.

[lch]

I sent PMs to the people that expressed interest in the game.

Pretenders received so far:

calmon / Insectoids
Sombre / Stigian Corruption
LoloMo / Magoserium
BigandScary / The Black Moon

[Sensori]

Hey lch, I remembered the pretender that I wanted into the game!

Here's the crap:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> #newmonster 2450
#name "Volcano"
#spr1 ".\Amoscalypse\KoopaArmy\Volcano1.tga"
#spr2 ".\Amoscalypse\KoopaArmy\Volcano2.tga"
#descr "A volcano who wishes to eat Earth for breakfast after drinking too much Volvic revive, which filters down his handsome volcano rocks to create a wild mineral water which grabs life by the conkers."
#ap 30
#mapmove 0
#hp 500
#fireres 100
#coldres 50
#fear 0
#prot 30
#size 6
#str 30
#enc 0
#att 30
#def 0
#prec 15
#mr 23
#mor 18
#gcost 10
#rcost 10
#pathcost 100
#startdom 5
#weapon "Fist"
#weapon "Fist"
#mountainsurvival
#forestsurvival
#poisonres 100
#eyes 2
#shockres 100
#heal
#itemslots 12294
#immobile
#magicskill 0 2
#magicskill 2 1
#maxage 9000
#startage 1942
#magicbeing
#restrictedgod 73
#goodleader
#end</pre><hr />

If you think it's overpowered, tune it. ;p I still want it! I pretty much restricted him to two magic lines, water (Volvic volcano, water, obvious!) and fire (volcano, firey magma, obvious!), so me not making it totally immobile by copying Sphinx should be justified. Recoup is justified by lava "regenerating" old wounds. STR, it's a damn volcano. Att... It's a MAGICAL volcano that can see stuff. Defense 0, because it's a volcano. Resistances are justified by it being a volcano... And so on. It's meant to be put in the place of Mario, since I won't be using him if mah Volcano goes through.

And here's the picture files:

http://sensori.soldats.net/volvic/volcano1.tga
http://sensori.soldats.net/volvic/volcano2.tga

[Xox]

I really want to play in this game and lead the Blood Elves to bloody victory, but my personal circumstances and timing have changed and I have decided I want to hold off a month or two before starting a new game.

SO the blood elves are open.

My apologies if this ends up delaying the start of the game.

[lch]

So, at the moment there are only four players ready for the game. We can get at least two others in. If you are interested, choose any nation that hasn't been taken yet (anything except Insectoids, Stigian Corruption, Magoserium and Mushroom Kingdom), then hurry and sign up now!

[BigandScary]

I'll join, but is it mods from every age or just the early age?

[lch]

BigandScary said:
I'll join, but is it mods from every age or just the early age?


The era is more or less irrelevant since we won't be playing with any nations from base game, only mod nations. Download the mod pack that I offered for download earlier and see if any of those vacant positions interest you, in which case you can sign up with them. You can pick another modded nation, too, just like suggested.

[BigandScary]

Alright, I'll play as Moork, from the "Black Moon Chronicles"

[lch]

BigandScary said:
Alright, I'll play as Moork, from the "Black Moon Chronicles"


You mean you'll play as "The Black Moon" from the 11 nations mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=536567)? Or something else? Please link me to the mod in question.

I hope you have had a look at the competition, by downloading the mod that I prepared for the original choices. The other nations are going to be tough! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Don't come running at me later, saying it's unfair! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[BigandScary]

It is "The Black Moon" from the 11 nations mod. It used to be the Black Monn Chronicles Mod in dom2. And I've played most of those mods and thought the point of this game was unfair matchups. Why would I whine about that?

[Morkilus]

Since Neo Xekinimia is finished, I can start this game with whatever mod is already prepared. Could we get an update to the main post, lch?

[lch]

Morkilus said:
Since Neo Xekinimia is finished, I can start this game with whatever mod is already prepared. Could we get an update to the main post, lch?


Yup, I linked to the list of pretenders that I received above now. Very good, I'd like to only get one more player in now so that we have a little more action... Morkilus, pick any mod nation that is still free (Sensori gets Mushroom Kingdom).

[Morkilus]

So... I downloaded the mod and it looks like Angelic Crusade is open. Can I give that one a shot? I should be able to make a pretender tonight.


lch said:
Pretenders received so far:

calmon / Insectoids
Sombre / Stigian Corruption
LoloMo / Magoserium
BigandScary / The Black Moon

[lch]

Morkilus said:
So... I downloaded the mod and it looks like Angelic Crusade is open. Can I give that one a shot? I should be able to make a pretender tonight.


Yes, just send in a pretender and it's yours. I hope to get some more people in, but I'll start the game this weekend.

[DireAussie]

I may play with my slightly more powerful version of Zapath/Sombre's Necropolis (a little more protection for base troops (all still &lt; 10 and crippled/ghost form still 0), +1 heat, citadel as the main fort with dead cities for all other built forts).

My nation will still be underpowered compared to some of the other nations here (the one with Demiurge is silly), but I come in expecting to lose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: have sent pretender and mod to lch

[BigandScary]

it looks like i won't have much time to play for the next few weeks, so i'm going to have to withdraw. sorry

[calmon]

I'm not sure when this will start but i'm away from Sept.27th-Oct.3rd so please wait till i'm back or take me out of the game. Its difficult/complicate to find subs for a not started game.

[lch]

I guess I'll wait then. Too many people hopping on and off the game, I'll just start with what we have when calmon is back.

[AlgaeNymph]

Wait, is it too late to join as Tasilondren (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=500030&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1) then?

[calmon]

Thanks for waiting Ich. Actually you can start the game if you want. I've internet access here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[lch]

DryaUnda, no, it's not too late, but maybe chose another nation, one that Amos created perhaps. There are a couple of them which haven't been claimed or got available again. Just because the one you chose has no new graphics and is probably balanced for vanilla. If you want to stick to it, you may.

Just send me a mail with your pretenders and tell me what mod you used, I'll get the game up then. Including you, Sensori.

[AlgaeNymph]

I'll have to decline then, no problem though.

[jutetrea]

How is this game going? Is it going? I've recently been playing a bunch of amos' mods and it would be interesting to see how they play out. So far out of the 3 I've played I LIKE
scourge
insectoids
crusade

in that order, in terms of power I'd probably rate them similarly although power levels of teh scourge really depend on how many heroes you get and how long they last, at least for the early turns. Once scourge gets up to blood 4 its pretty brutal.

Inquiring minds want to know!

[lch]

It has not started yet, because at the moment we have only five players at most I think - too much hopping on and off. Plus, I'm getting swamped with work. If you want to join the game, I'd be inclined to start it. Pick a nation, design a pretender for it, and send it to me via mail. I'll start ASAP.

[DireAussie]

Is jutetrea joining? If not, perhaps we could officially cancel this game rather than let it linger - I want to join another multiplayer game but dont want to be overextended if this one happens to start up one day. Maybe we could try again after christmas.

[jutetrea]

Sorry, didn't want to imply that I wanted to play. I was just curious if it had started and how the various mods were doing. Personally swearing off MP for a bit, was going to swear off Dom for a bit - but then the patch came out.

[lch]

No problem, jutetrea. I can start the game, we still got some 5-6 players together. However, the 3.10 patch has made life difficult for mod nations, as I encountered in another game. I'd like to say "the more the merrier" concerning mod nations, but now the imperative is "the less the better" - just because of heavy restrictions from the game. I will compile a new mod over the weekend with the nations that have been picked and see if it works with 3.10, and if it doesn't we'll need 3.08.

[WraithLord]

Well, I've just had two of my games end recently, and mod nations are really fun so If there's an open slot I would like to join.

Is there a list of which mod is picked by which player?- I admit to not browsing through all the posts in this thread to find out.

[LoloMo]

I think an all mods game is no longer possible with the 3.10 patch. Seems that you can only have up to two mod nations after the patch.

In the Mod Nations over Europe game, we had to revert to 3.08 to be able to play.

[WraithLord]

That's very sad indeed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
I hope it'll be fixed in next patch.

[WraithLord]

LoLomo, I have just tested this condition (more than 2 mod nations) and I get a "Nagot gick fell" popup with an error "Bad #selectarmor command" is this the same error that you have encountered?- More important, has this error been reported to either the devs or the bugs short list thread?

[jutetrea]

Could that have to do with the spelling of the lightweight armors?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=555349&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1

No idea, just a thought

[WraithLord]

jutetrea said:

Could that have to do with the spelling of the lightweight armors?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=555349&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1

No idea, just a thought


Sounds like it. This is actually very easy to fix. I can make a script (actually more like a command) in bash/perl/python to fix any given mod. However it could very well be that there are additional issues with mods as well.

[LoloMo]

No, it was an sprnbr error, seems the number of sprites possible was reduced.

Here is the thread about it:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=540900&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=15&amp;vc=1

[WraithLord]

Yacks, nothing to do but wait for next patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[lch]

I acknowledge your enthusiasm, WraithLord, and I really would want this to work with 3.10, but it seems futile. If the solution which has been applied to the ModsOverEurope game works like intended then we can use the same thing over here.

[Amos]

The insane def in "Stigian Corruption" mod represents spirit armor, thats not a typo. Recently I had to lower the prices for the nations commanders, since the AI was incapable of playing this nation. The nation seems highly overpowered but it has vulnerabilities (ex. Nephilim are high cost and 0 protection).