BAG (Started!)

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

CURRENT STATUS:
Game is running.

We've finally resolved the map issue, so we're nearing a start. I plan to start the game on the 13th of this month- a Saturday. The host, llamabeast, has limited internet access, but will do what he can to get this game started this weekend.

Because I know only how to attach only one thing to a post, I'll attach the map we're using, epotara, to my second or third post- all on this same page. This post includes a zip file with all the mods we're using.

I'm organizing a Big Arse Game on Llamabeast's play by email server. Settings are final.

Game has been created. You can submit your god to 'pretenders(at)llamaserver(dot)net', with the subject line 'BAG'.

Game is Dom3.10, with a mod pack containing Worthy Heroes, Streamers and Standards, Ulm Reborn, Vaettihiem.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Notes: Every position is filled.

Current Nation-Player list:

Abysia - Szumo
Agartha - Hadrian_II
Arcoscephale - Papastoss
Atlantis - Lazy_Perfectionist
Caelum - DyraUnda
Ctis - Snacktime
Ermor - BigandScary
Jomon - Warhammer
Man (Chelm)- Nikolai
Marignon - MAJ_Disgrace
Mictlan - Dedas
Midgard - AdmiralZhao
Pangaea - MrSparkle
Patala - Lord_Bob
Pythium - Aristander
R'lyeh - Jazzepi
T'ien Ch'i - Ramz
Ulm - Reverend Zombie
Ulm Reborn - Burnsaber
Vaettiheim - Janlm
Utgard - duke_commando

[Jazzepi]

Recommended settings

No graphs
Wrap around map

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Late Era - Map is Epotara (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=553219&page=0)
Also attached to this post.

Number of starting provinces 1
Strength of independents 5
Special site frequency 35
Money Multiple 100
Resource Multiple 100
Supply Multiple 100
Random Events are common
Score graphs are disabled
Hall of Fame Entries: 15
Standard research
Standard victory
Master Password is enabled
Renaming is allowed
Cheat prevention is active

First turn - 50 hours.
After that, 30 hour quickhost.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Q: When can I send in my pretender?
A: You can send it in now. Just email your pretender to 'pretenders(at)llamaserver(dot)net' (obscured for spambots)

Q: How do I create my pretender?
A: Create your pretender with the Game Tools, making sure the relevant mods are enabled (Preferences).

Q: Where can I read about these mods?
A: The Mod List (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=495854&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) is usually a good starting point.

Q: What version are we using?
A: Dominions 3.08.

Q: Where can I find out more information about the llamaserver and play by email?
A: Check out the Llamaserver FAQ (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3maars&Number=531116&fpar t=&PHPSESSID=)

Q: What map are we using? How many provinces will there be?
A: It's a map created by Pashadawg. There will be real mountains, caves, seas, etc, and about 15 provinces per player.

Q: What's the turn schedule going to be?
A: The first turn is going to be set to fifty hours. After that, the game will run as a 30 hour quickhost. Quickhost means that as soon as the game has received everyone's turn-order file, that the server will process that turn and send out a new turn-result file to everyone. As the game gets more complicated or people request, the turn times will be lengthened.

[Jazzepi]

Ooo, if you're taking nation signups, put me down for...

R'yleh, Emor, Caelum

Changed these in order of preference since Outriders has become unplayable

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Yeah, taking nation signups.

Don't have to worry about conflicts yet, either, since I don't know who'll still be able to play in a week or two or four.

I will get more strict about it later, but for now, I'm going to keep a rough idea of order requested.

[Hadrian_II]

Id like to join as one of the following nations:

Agharta, Marignon, Jomon. If possible i would like Agharta

[Sombre]

Since this is LA there are several mod nations which could also take part that are specifically balanced for either vanilla dom3 or Conceptual Balance Mod.

Only if you're interested of course.

[Evilhomer]

Where can I find balanced mod nations ? (not amos i hope)

[llamabeast]

Ulm Reborn and Vaettiheim both come highly recommended as balanced LA nations. Take a look in the mods and maps subforum.

[Evilhomer]

Put me down for (in this order) :

miclan, marignon, rlyeh.

[Sombre]

If you like CBM, take a look in the CBM mods thread for CBM balanced (or in a balance process, anyway) versions of some nations.

Any mod made by me is intended to be balanced and I absolutely listen to feedback, so I think most of them are pretty close by now.

[Baalz]

I'm in:
C'tis, Argatha, Ulm

[Reverend Zombie]

Sombre said:
If you like CBM, take a look in the CBM mods thread for CBM balanced (or in a balance process, anyway) versions of some nations.




I'm not a fan of CBM and wouldn't consider it a "small mod" mentioned as a possibility in the initial post here.

[Sombre]

Depends what he meant by small. It's small in terms of download size, compared with nations.

I only mention mods because he said "maybe one or two small mods" and this is an all LA nations game, which might make the inclusion of an LA mod nation or two interesting, as well as allowing for another player or two if there are no more slots.

[Reverend Zombie]

Sombre said:
Depends what he meant by small. It's small in terms of download size, compared with nations.





I read "small" to mean "not significantly game-changing," which would rule out CBM.

LP should tell us what he meant by "small." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Well... I was thinking of worthy heroes as good, and CBM as bad. I do think including a mod nation might be okay, though, since it doesn't change the fundamental mechanics for everyone, and the game manual is still usable.

I'm willing to be flexible. And while CBM is something to consider, I'm not ready to switch over to it. In the future, when I've got no other mods going, and I've got enough basics under my belt to start worrying about balance and other game changes... There are somethings I find attractive about CBM, but I'm not ready for it, as I found out in Veturi (oddly enough, my most successful game to date, where I'm among the last two players left alive). When I make the switch, it will probably be wholesale.

[Sombre]

Cool, let me know if you need a hand setting up a mod nation or anything.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, I'd encourage including balanced mod nations, particularly the lovely Ulm Reborn and Vaettiheim. It'd be good if they started to be used in ordinary MP games, since they're certainly interesting and balanced enough to merit it.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

People have mentioned, but not personally requested a mod nation. I don't think I'll need a hand setting up a mod nation, Sombre, but I'll keep your offer in mind. I appreciate it. But where I know I'll need advice is deciding whether a nation is balanced enough for multiplayer. If it's a little too overpowered, perhaps we can treat the playing nation like LA Ermor. You know, love, flowers, the whole red carpet treatment of ganging up on a threat warfare.

[Aethyr]

LP--

Well, I'm finally settled (I think):

T'ien Ch'i, Midgard, Marignon

That's it!

[Evilhomer]

when are we ready to get rolling ?

[duke_commando]

I'd like to join as Utgard, Ulm, or Pangea.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

If my bleary eyes see correctly, we're aiming for 18 players, Evilhomer. By my current count, we're at 10 players, so I'll start seriously organizing this.

At my estimate, it will be go in a week at the earliest. Probably two. I'm going to catch up on my sleeps before I get another game started.

If you don't want to check in every day, just know that when I do start the game, it will be on a Saturday. Just check in Friday to see any announcements I may have made on Thursday.

If someone lists one of the above mentioned mod nations in their requests (along with a couple vanilla nations), we may even go above 18.

On the other hand, if it means going without R'lyeh, I'm more than happy to start with 15-17 nations.

[Jazzepi]

I changed my preferences in the original post.

Jazzepi

[Saarud]

I would like to join the game as T'ien Ch'i, R'lyeh or Man.

[Hadrian_II]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
If my bleary eyes see correctly, we're aiming for 18 players, Evilhomer. By my current count, we're at 10 players, so I'll start seriously organizing this.



Acually it seems you forgot to include me in your list, so it is one more.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

So, Jazzepi, the preferences I should use are in the first post? Okay.
Saarud, welcome.
Hadrian_II, fixed.

Trying to come up with a simplified player list.
(Damn R'lyeh, I have no reason to deny, other than selfishness. Fortunately, I may have learned SOMETHING about pretender design from Outriders, so I won't be stuck with six provinces while the rest of the world is conquered.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Here's a simplified player list. If you have any objections or suggestions, feel free to mention. This is open to change, but if you're fine with it, it'll prevent some complicated juggling later on. If everyone's happy with it, I'll merge it with my official player list post earlier in this thread.

Abysia
Agartha - Hadrian_II
Arcoscephale - Papatoss
Atlantis - Lazy Perfectionist
Caelum
Ctis - Baalz
Ermor
Jomon
Man
Marignon
Mictlan - EvilHomer
Midgard
Pangaea
Patala
R'lyeh
T'ien Ch'i
Ulm - Reverend Zombie
Utgard - duke_commando

major_disgrace: Random
Warhammer: Man, Marignon, Jomon
Jazzepi: R'lyeh, Ermor, Caelum
Aethyr: Tien Chi, Midgard, Marignon
Saruud: Tien Chi, R'lyeh, Man

[Aethyr]

LP--

If Saruud wants T'ein Ch'i, I'll switch to Midgard. That sould let you lock down the rest, yes?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Okay, entering the list into earliest post. That can be changed later upon request (or necessity), but I'll let it lie as is for now.

[Jazzepi]

R'yleh is being played by r'yleh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Meh. We'll, you were careful to state your preferences. All I can hope for is revenge, but I've been whacked by R'lyeh each time I've fought them... bah.

I've put up a proposed list of settings - and it IS open to debate. I'll keep things up to date in my earliest posts, and leave this posts' listing static for purposes of discussion.

If anything, I think my site chance is too high for such a large map, but I do want more sites than normal... Feedback invited.

Proposed Settings
Late Era - Glory of the Gods (Multiplayer) 227 land, 47 sea
Number of starting provinces 2
Strength of independents 5
Special site frequency 75
Money Multiple 100
Resource Multiple 100
Supply Multiple 100
Random Events are common
Score graphs are disabled
Hall of Fame Entries: 15
Standard research
Standard victory
Master Password is enabled
Renaming is allowed
Cheat prevention is active

[Jazzepi]

I would probably just leave things at default. The max I would ever move it up to is whatever the EA site searching defaults to.

Jazzepi

[MAJ_Disgrace]

I'll take Marignon since it's still free.

[Warhammer]

I think I will give Jomon the nod here.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I'm setting starting provinces to two for two reasons. 1st, the gold derived is fairly inconsequential. 2nd, R'lyeh has all those 1 resource Illithids, I'd like to make sure resource heavy nations such Ulm and Atlantis have a little edge. I can be talked out of 2 starting provinces, but I like the idea. Site level toned down, still can't make up my mind between 35 and 45.

Warhammer, MAJ_Disgrace, noted. Since things have been pretty much straightened out, I think its time to recruit full-bore.

I'm open for mod suggestions. What I'm currently considering is...
Worthy Heroes (not epic)
Velusion's Big Game Mod (hard to find)
Blessing Hotfix (is it necessary with 3.08? Can't remember what it does)

[Saarud]

I agree with Jazzepi to not change the default of the special site frequencies. Otherwise I do agree with a 2 province start.

I have no opinion about mods since I have never used one of those proposed mods.

[Jazzepi]

I've never played in a two province starting position game outside of SP, but it seems fairly silly. There's no reason to do it, he game is balanced for a single starting position. If you give people two provinces to start with, those with awake pretenders, or fast expanders, will be hurt.

Since you already want to increase how often the magic sites occur, which makes site searching rainbow mages more effective, there's no reason to make them /even better/ by giving out a free province.

I have a hard time believing that R'lyeh having 1 resource illithids is a reason to start with two opening provinces, and you shouldn't be changing the game just to balance against /one race/. I find this quite offensive. LA R'yleh doesn't even have a reputation like EA Neiflhem, so I'm not sure what, outside of your own experiences losing to R'yleh, you are basing this on.

Also, you shouldn't be changing the settings just to boost a race you are going to play in the game, and supposedly hamper another that could quite possibly be in direct opposition to your own. That's just silly. If you want more resource points, then buy productivity +3 for an extra 45%, and make sure that you attack a forest/mountain province first, don't adjust the game settings.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Good nough. Tuning back down to default.

The real reason I suggested these two settings was because I was curious how it would turn out. Really, the R'lyeh thing was really just a crappy way of rationalizing this.

As for offensive, I apologize. I hadn't intended it to be, and my brain is functioning at half-capacity right now, thanks to a confused sleep schedule.

[Janlm]

i'm in, my preferences would be R'lyeh, Mictlan or Marignon.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

No proplem, we can fit you in, Janlm.

Though, you're all just figments of my imagination! Weeeee.

... well, that's it for tonight. I might as well enter the Dreamlands, because they're entering me. See ya'll tomorrow.

[AdmiralZhao]

I'd like to try out LA Ermor. Failing that, Pangea and then Patala.

[calmon]

I would like to join as Patala. (Ermor and Pangaea as second and third choice if needed)

[Jazzepi]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Good nough. Tuning back down to default.

The real reason I suggested these two settings was because I was curious how it would turn out. Really, the R'lyeh thing was really just a crappy way of rationalizing this.

As for offensive, I apologize. I hadn't intended it to be, and my brain is functioning at half-capacity right now, thanks to a confused sleep schedule.



It's okay. It just came off badly. I would recommend you stay with default settings until you have more experience. I think it's more interesting to tinker with the defaults once you've got a good grasp of how those effect the game.

Jazzepi

[Szumo]

I'd like to join as Abyssia.

[Evilhomer]

You should balance the water nations power using the number of water provinces available. As a rule of thumb I belive a water nation should have 3/4 water provinces for each land province for a land player - So if you aim for 20 land provinces/land nation, give 15 provinces water/water nation. The water provinces should be connected to each other.

Since Rlyeh is the only water player you should not make the water mass huge in this game - I cannot stress how important this is. I got LA Rlyeh with a huge water mass in discordia and the game has not been much challanging this far.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Is Cradle of Dominions playable with 18 nations? It was the first one I considered, but it said for 8 to 10 nations.

The second map I considered was the standard 'Glory of the Gods', but I realized 122 sea provinces are too much unless we managed to find mod water nations.

The third map I considered was the multiplayer version of 'Glory of the Gods'. On one hand, there are 47 water provinces, but they at least are not one contiguous body of water. Though I'd feel better about having just two amphibious nations if I could carve up the western body of water into smaller, separate parts. Or if there's any balanced amphibious LA underwater mod nations... Unfortunately, that Oceania mod is only in the conceptual stage.

Advice on maps?
I suppose I could go looking through some dominions 2 maps, but I still need an eye for what I'm looking for.

[Evilhomer]

CoD is playable with 18 players. It will however be an agressive game since we are all a bit cramped space wise early on - expect and prepare for rushers if we play this map

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

A little trouble fitting in Janlm.
R'lyeh, Mictlan, Marignon.

I can resolve this on my own, but first I'll ask for a volunteer.

Those natiosn are taken by MAJ_Disgrace, Evilhomer, Jazzepi...

Evilhomer has the exact same request list, so I can't ask you to change. Though I could work something out if I juggled more people.

On the other hand, MAJ_Disgrace selected random, and Jazzepi also selected Caelum, a nation that no one has yet taken dibs on.

I wish to apologize for various screenname typos, my player list is corrected now. I'll try to get your names right from now on.

[fungalreason]

I'll hop in as Man if no one has taken them yet

[Janlm]

hmm, its a bit dificult for me to get a good overview of this, which nations are still free?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Check my second post in this thread, Janlm. I maintain the most up-to date list there. There's two parts to it. A 'preferences' list, that allows for some flexibility in filling in nations and is kept on hand incase I need to juggle nations to accommodate people, and a fluid, changing 'nation-player' list. I'll format that post for more easy reading.

If you want the simplest path, look at the second list, and select an empty slot. However, you can request nations already taken since I've had almost everyone list three options. However, there are no guarantees there, and the best bet is just to pick one with an empty slot.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Currently, Pangaea and Caelum are guaranteed open. fungalreaon has just gotten Man.

[Velusion]

Eh... What the hell... I'll take Caelum.

Are there going to me mod nations included?

[MrSparkle]

If you guys don't mind anyone new to the multiplayer game I'll take Pangaea.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Well... I'm going to stop accepting new players on Thursday.
Some people have mentioned certain mod nations, but no one has actually requested to play one themselves. So...
Velusion - Caelum. MrSparkle - Pangaea. Janlm - substitute or... takes a mod nation. I'm pretty certain at least one nation won't show up to the start.

Hmm... perhaps we can do something about this. Give me a little while to think things over before we consider this player list final. These are just my brainfarts made flesh, not imperial dictates.

[Velusion]

I can make a map if need be. I can just generate a bunch and photoshop the best. Thats what I do for all the games I host...

[Jazzepi]

I think you should take Velusion up on his offers. I've always enjoyed his maps.

Jazzepi

[Janlm]

jeez, you have to be fast here, or everything gets taken under your nose, guess i can't join this one then.

[Burnsaber]

This is a opportunty to spread mod nation awareness that I simply can't miss.

I'd like to play Ulm Reborn (if it's okay with everyone).

[Evilhomer]

I wouldn't mind playing a mod nation - We should however agree what mod nations are balanced for vanilla gameplay (Sombre can probably tell us which). I have heard that Ulm reborn is balanced so its probably oki.

[Burnsaber]

Evilhomer said:
I wouldn't mind playing a mod nation - We should however agree what mod nations are balanced for vanilla gameplay (Sombre can probably tell us which). I have heard that Ulm reborn is balanced so its probably oki.



Well, Ulm Reborn is made by Sombre, so I'm quite sure it's balanced. I think we should stick to those nation mods that have been CB'd. Sombre can probably tell us if we should use the CB or vanilla version.

I think that there are 3 more CB'd LA nations. Vaettiheim, Kharamz Dhuz and Teutanion (or whatever)

[Janlm]

ok i think i'll be willing to try out Vaettiheim, or perhaps this Kharamz Dhuz, if i ever figure out what they are.. And if everyone agrees that they are balanced enough to use.

Or, if someone bails out with another interesting nation, i'll just claim that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Vaettiheim has my vote as one of the most fun LA nations. But then I do like goblins for some reason.

[Janlm]

yeah i've just been reading the thread, they look kinda cool. Sign me up for Vaettiheim. I asume i'll have a few days to figure them out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Reverend Zombie]

Burnsaber said:
This is a opportunty to spread mod nation awareness that I simply can't miss.

I'd like to play Ulm Reborn (if it's okay with everyone).



It doesn't make sense thematically to have them in the game along with Black Forest Ulm (which I'll be playing) but if that doesn't bug anyone else, I won't object.

[llamabeast]

Aw, clash of the Ulms would be awesome!

That actually sounds like quite a good 2-player scenario, might try that some time.

[Ramz]

Don't know if there are any nations left, but i would like to join if possible.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Velusion said:
I can make a map if need be. I can just generate a bunch and photoshop the best. Thats what I do for all the games I host...



I am interested in taking you up on this offer. I'd like to be involved in the selection at some stage, though. Help, if I might, learn if I an.

Notes: Evilhomer is considering a mod nation, Mictlan may or may not be available for Ramz. If Evilhomer doesn't change nations, Ramz will have to take a mod nation. We're still accepting new players, but they need to lay claim to a mod nation. I'll make a post shortly discussing/listing mod nations, but feel free to suggest a mod nation as well.

Current Nation-Player list:
Abysia - Szumo
Agartha - Hadrian_II
Arcoscephale - Papatoss
Atlantis - Lazy_Perfectionist
Caelum - Velusion
Ctis - Baalz
Ermor - AdmiralZhao
Jomon - Jomon
Man - fungalreason
Marignon - MAJ_Disgrace
Mictlan - EvilHomer
Midgard - Aethyr
Pangaea - MrSparkle
Patala - calmon
R'lyeh - Jazzepi
T'ien Ch'i - Saarud
Ulm - Reverend Zombie
Ulm Reborn - Burnsaber
Vaettiheim - Janlm
Utgard - duke_commando

[Jazzepi]

I would like to keep the mod nations to a minimum myself. I played in some all mod games recently, and I did not feel that they were terribly well balanced for large scale multiplayer.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

So be it. We'll get Ramz get a mod nation. We'll have the game limited to three mod nations, and stop accepting any new players. Three mod nations out of 21 shouldn't unbalance the overall gameplay too much.

If they are too strong, we should be able to manage a strategic alliance and offer the mod creators some feedback.

[Velusion]

LP -

Let me know approximately how many water/land provinces you would like, I'll work up a map and PM you with the link for your feed back.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Hmm... In my single player games (1 on 1), I generally go with 15 provinces per player to prevent anyone being stuck too close together. But my experience with large games is non-existent. Recommendations would be nice. Otherwise, I'm shooting in the dark.

15x21 = 315 maybe too large?
10x21 = 210 maybe too crowded, especially with unfamiliar mod nations?

By magically pulling an arbitrary number out of my ***, lets go for 260 provinces. So thats about 17 players 15 provinces each, or 26 players 10 provinces each for the RMG.

[Velusion]

I like your original preference at 15 provinces per player if you're going for votes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

All my games are big games and thats approximately what I use.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

They won't take to long to finish with 360 something provinces?

Well, I don't have any real opinion on the matter, so just go with your best judgement on the size.

I do have some particular opinions on water provinces and mountains, though. I might tweak some watery areas to contain fewer provinces and better sailing opportunities. I'll also make sure there are some real mountains for the sake of Agartha.

If you'd like, I'd crack open the GIMP and/or Photoshop to try and make a map wraparound.

[Jazzepi]

I'd say somewhere between 13-15 per player is a good sweet spot to hit.

I tried 10 per player in Ludus, and that was a pretty tight fit IMHO. We had a lot of rushers.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

So, velusion, if you find several you want to run by me, try uploading them as a lower-quality jpeg first. That way, you won't spend all day uploading a rmg only to find out I'm not interested. Once we both think a particular map has potential, then we can go to less compressed, lossless formats, and tweak from there.

[Ramz]

Don't know much about the balance of mod nations but can i be sylvania, the nation of elves i believe.

[llamabeast]

Sylvania are good fun. However, they may be a little overpowered - it might be worth asking Sombre if he has any opinions on this, and if he has time to tone them down slightly (I'm just about to go on holiday so can't really help).

[Janlm]

is it time to submit pretenders?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

You may, but there's no need to hurry.

The game is set up, and will take your pretender (and also a replacement, if you change your mind), but we won't be able to actually start the game until Friday the Fourteenth, for a few technical reasons.

[Velusion]

I kicked off the script to generate a bunch of map files this morning. Hopefully I'll have something to show LP by tonight/tomorrow.

[Saarud]

Guys I just got confirmed that I am going for a trip on 21st september and won't be back until the 24th september. I won't be able to do my turns during this trip. I think the best thing is to give up Tien Chi for someone else. I try to get in another game after the 24th.

[Aethyr]

Well...It looks like I will have to bow out as well; I've a big project at work that will require some concentration.

I could probably be OK for a while, but the Sons of Odin deserve someone who can give them more focus.

Good luck guys.

[Baalz]

Do we want to open this game back up to get a full house?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Yes.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Later, I'll include some direct links, but mods...

We'll be using the latest versions of Sylvania, Vaettihiem, and Ulm Reborn. They seem to have made some balance changes, so we'll avoid the CBM versions atm.

Since we can't start for a week, anyways, I figure I'll (maybe you as well) run an ai test game against them to see whats what. Can't promise that, but CBM is an option, though since we havent custom balanced the main nations, I'm not eager. But I haven't played them either way before, so I'm not speaking from experience.

Worthy heroes 1.7b will be used.
Streamers and Standards

[Sombre]

If you use the 1.1 vanilla version of Sylvania, be aware it's a very strong nation. In the hands of an expert I would expect it to do extremely well.

CBM Sylvania 2, the most recent rebalance I've done of them, was quite a nerf really. But I tend to make mod nations average or below average power if possible, so maybe it isn't needed. Diplomacy goes a long way in MP.

[Tuidjy]

If Sylvania is open, I want it. I have been wanting to play them for a while.
And I do not mind if you give me the weaker version.

....

Nevermind, I see it has been taken. Good luck, everyone!

[Burnsaber]

Oh, right. Almost forgot.

*ahem* {is this thing on?}

The noble and benelovent nation of Ulm Reborn hereby declares unending war to their dark brothers. The true Ulmish people will not rest until there is only definition to the word "Man from Ulm", and that definition is of a brave and strong man who uses his power justly.

The light of Aufklarung will shine upon you! In its everburning light your hiding places in the shadows will be revealed and your sins brought for all to see. Be purged by the divine shine and repent your evil ways..
or die!

[Jazzepi]

I would prefer that we not use the mod version with the sacred fear troops, I personally thought they were a little too strong.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

So, Sylviana - probable balance issues? I'll check that out.
How about Ulm Reborn and vaettihiem?

I'm looking forward to those random maps, but if those are unowrkable for some reason, perhaps we can modify glory (non-multiplayer version) to cut down on the water provinces, or divy them up. I reinstalled the GIMP on my machine, but I'm a map mod newebie. I'll look into that as well, since it overlaps well with Consecrated Ground.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Sylvania scares me.. even nerfed as a custom balance nation I think they're overpowered.

On top of that, I don't like them. They really shouldn't be a late era nation. Thematically, they should be an early age nation, or modeled perhaps more off of Tir na Nog and Man and other nations where the tuatha/elves are actually as scarce as their nation description makes them out to be.

I'll allow the custom balance version into the game, though with some reservations into whether its really a good idea.

12 gold and 12 resources for 13 precision, (effectively 16), with access to air magic... and commanders with good precision + nature magic for 17 (or effectively 24) precision, plus bow equipment...
Above average morale, magic resistance, etc etc...

And I think they have too many gems coming in as well, for what they've got. But this isn't a balance thread, so back to the point.

Custom Balance Sylvania is in. And I suspect, deadly. They probably should be ganged up on, but I'll let the game determine that. I may be wrong.

[Hadrian_II]

I took a short look at the 2 mod nations, and i dont think they are weak:

Vaettiheim:

Strengths
9 gold Archers
Trolls Recruitable everywhere
Easy Access to Nature, Death, Astral and Blood Magic and Earth Magic is also Possible Blood + Earch = Blood Stones
Wolf Trolls could be painful with a strong bless also the Troll Mages have some thug potential.

Weaknesses
No medium infantry
Strong Mages are Capital only
Most Mages are old Age
No Battle Magic (Air or Fire)

I would say they are balanced

Ulm Reborn

Strenghts
Heavy Armoured
Sacreds that are Recruitable everywhere + H3 Priests means that bless strategies would be easily possible
Sacred Commanders With Fear + Awe Strong armor and 30 HP --> this is what i would call an ideal thug chassis
Sneaking Priests

Weaknesses
Very Resource Intensive
Rotten Magic only mage is capital only, acces limited to Earth and Astral
Problems With encumbrance and magic resistance

I would consider this nation rather weak, but i cant judge the sacreds, also the Neugeboren Lords have some serious potential.

I would say that Ulm and Vaettiheim wont pose much problems with the balance.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Ulm maybe doesn't need the custom balance, but I'm going to take a look at it as well. The hochmeisters seem bugged, with only five encumbrance (5 basic, full plate, kite shield should come to 12)... could I have a second opinion on this nation?

Retraction: apparently its because its mounted. Something in the mod manual but not regular.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

In Vaettihiem, I'm almost certain the CBM mod dropped the price on one of the units, but am having trouble spotting the differences. Do they nerf or buff Vaettihiem?

I see no problem including Vaettheim but I may be overlooking something. Though the creater of the mod did mention trying to make the nation more balanced, factoring in some of the CBM stuff.

[Sombre]

I don't think it's a good idea to use the CBM version of a mod if you aren't using Conceptual Balance Mod. The attempt was to balance them to CBM standards and as such some of the units might use CBM stuff, like the "warhorse hoof" weapon which doesn't exist in vanilla. They also use copystats to take values from CBM for units. End result is they'll work without CBM (missing warhorse hoof and some CBM changes) but that isn't what they were designed for.

Enc 5 isn't a bug, it's how enc works for mounted units. Look at the MA Ulm Black Knight for instance.

CBM Sylvania 2 has 4 gem income - same as every late age nation.

Since this isn't a balance thread I won't go beyond the facts. I didn't make Sylvania so whether or not the non CBM version is balanced is nothing to do with me. Ulm Reborn and Vaettiheim SE I did make and the non CBM versions are in my opinion balanced against vanilla nations (at least they're supposed to be).

[Velusion]

Here is a sample map with about the right amount of water (not much in the late) http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/bagv1.png

What I typically do is mark about 40% of the border mountains as actual mountains, link all the seas and the isle to the continent and then mark every land province that doesn't have at least 4 land borders as "no-start".

Unfortunately the lack of sea provinces means that most late maps will look rather featureless.

If you want to use that one just let me know or I can keep generating some others.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Not bad. With seventeen water provinces in the southeast lake, there's room for existence between two nations, both amphibious. And if one of us does die off (me, most likely), it won't be too much water.

It also gives me some possibilities to use sailing, although it won't be of much use in over half the map. Frankly, if you haven't tweaked it at all yet, its much better than I expected. The sea provinces are the right size and shape to be useful, even if the world isn't my own personal water park.

I'd be happy to use this one, though if it's no trouble, I'd like to see another one with two livable-sized separate bodies of water, so that I don't know if R'lyeh's waiting for me. A little more suspense until I get my scouts out and about.

On the issue of this one... If you're thinking its' rather featureless, you could maybe use gimp's clone tool to extend a few mountain ranges or make an area a swath of nostart wastelands with higher odds of having a magic site. You know, just to encourage territorial warfare. The forests do give it some character, though, especially with Pangaea around.

Stuff like that's up to you though. For a random map, this one meets my expectations. Once you tweak the mountains, I'll say thank you, and anything else is just wasabi on the sushi that will be R'lyeh.

[Ramz]

Since some non mod nations have opened up, im fine with taking tien chi over sylvania.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Great. That simplifies things. Thanks, Ramz.

[Velusion]

I'll generate a few more maps and post the best here in a bit.

[AdmiralZhao]

I don't suppose Midgard is still open? I'm having second thoughts about the amount of micro-management that a late game Ermor would require. If Midgard is still open, I'd like to switch to them, even if it does mean you will have to re-title the thread.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Midgard is still open. it's no hassle to re-title.

[Velusion]

<< *resists the urge to change from Caelum to Ermor...*

[Velusion]

Here is a better map (IMHO):

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/bagv2.png

IF that looks good I'll start to clean it up.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

That one's fine, but I'd like to run one by you, in a moment, for your opinion. It's probably too small though. In the end though, I'll trust your judgment with regards to maps, and let you go ahead and pick one of your choice.

If you have some suggested settings for generating a map, I'd love to hear them. What kind of settings are you using.

Map Width (1600)
Map Height (1200)
No. Prov. (350)
Sea Area (30%)
Mountain (35%)
Ruggedness (30)
River occ. (150)
Impassible mountains

Thumbnail links to half-size, lossy compressed version. In the end, I'll go with the experienced mappers choice, or yours, Velusion. But this is an example of the naval situation I like to see, albeit perhaps 5-10% too much water. Now, when I say like to see, its from my SP experiences, not multi.
http://xs119.xs.to/xs119/07371/my_first_random.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs119&d=07371&f=my_first_random.jpg)

[Jazzepi]

If you are going to use that, make sure Ry'leh doesn't start in one of the tiny lakes.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

That's no problem, Jazzepi. But It's not certain we're using that map yet.

When it comes to randoms, those first two kind of looked alike to me. What do you look at to tell if a random map is going to be any good? What do you look for when you say "this one's better, IMO"?

I might be phrasing it awkwardly, but basically, I'm not real clever when it comes to choosing maps and wonder what criteria you look for, Velusion.

[Velusion]

Well the biggest thing for me is water/land ratio. If this is off either the water or the land nations will have an advantage. In the past I think I've been too generous to water nations.

With 20 nations in play and only 1.5 of them being water (LA Atlantis is amphibious) you have 310 land provinces and 40 water. That is 26.7 water provinces per water nations and 16.8 land provinces to land nations. Now it is sort of mitigated somewhat by splitting up the two big seas, but in the long run I think this probably gives too big of an advantage to the water nations.

Also you have a total of 17.5 provinces per nation - that's a bit more than I'm used to (though I don't mind) but some people might want a tighter (aka smaller) map.

What does everyone else think though?

[Burnsaber]

17.5 fine is too much. I believe that 15 is too sparse and 10 is too tight. So somewhere in between would be awesome.

[fungalreason]

I won't have time to join this one unfortunately, so Man is free.

[Reverend Zombie]

Burnsaber said:
17.5 fine is too much. I believe that 15 is too sparse and 10 is too tight. So somewhere in between would be awesome.



15 seems pretty good to me. I'd be happy with 14, too.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Kay... So, what, maybe 13 provinces per land player. 20 nations total, 18.5 land. So, aiming for 240 land provinces.

What land percentages do you use? I'll experiment with
280 - 15% (40 water, only use if dispersed, otherewise too water friendly). 300 - 20% - 60. Looking at the numbers this way, I see where you're coming from. 30 percent is extremely ridiculous.

If the bodies of water are small enough, then nations like Marignon and Ermor can take advantage, I suppose.

I'll think again about whether to include so much water.

Do you know what ruggedness controls?

[Nikolai]

If Man is free, I would like it. I have been beaten by LA Man so much, I should be real good with :-)

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Out with fungalreason, in with Nikolai.

Ermor still open.

[BigandScary]

i'll do it.

[Jazzepi]

When the map is finally completely, I would request that you post both the parts needed to play it in solo mode. I love to test out maps ahead of time, and get a feel for their size.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I hear the two of you. I promise to behave myself, cut back on the caffiene, catch up on my sleep, and make time to do map stuff. My work schedule's a little messed up (thanks to Canada and the US Congress), but it doesn't follow me home. If stop abusing the high fructose corn syrup [soda, pepsi, cola], I should be productive again, without having to make any sacrifices other than those insomniac-forgotten wee hours of hte morn. Its only midnight hear, but not having abused the caffiene (in favor of sugary gingerale, I'ms calling a night to catch up).

BigandScary=Ermor
Jzzepi= pre-upload map.

[Jazzepi]

I used to drink lots and lots and lots of soda. I do not anymore, and my sleep schedule is much better. I /do/ lose more hours to sleep, but the time when I am awake, I no longer feel like a zombie.

Cutting caffeine completely from my diet is the best thing I've ever done.

Jazzepi

[Warhammer]

Are we still looking at a Friday start date?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I can't guarantee it, but I'm looking towards it, seeing if I can pull it off. If not this Friday, then next. The hoped for plan i mentioned earlier, is finalize Thursday. Leave Friday for objections. And start on Saturday, to be precise.

While I am driving at this weekend... I have to be realistic. Next week, most likely. If I do another BAG in the future, it'll also be slow to start (though probably a bit quicker, since I won't be asking everyone's opinion on everything). They won't be as fast to get going as my 8 player llamaserves. I will be taking these at a more leisurely pace because I don't want to be stressed out before I even start.

[Warhammer]

Next week works better for me anyway. Been so busy I haven't had a chance for any trial games with Jomon.

[BigandScary]

i feel stupid asking, but how do upload my pretender?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I had to ask this at one time not so long ago.

First question, do you know how to create your pretender without starting a new singleplayer game?

Second question, do you know where to find your pretender file?

Simplest answer is to attach the pretender file to an email addressed to (obscured for spambots) pretenders[at]llamaserver[dot]net with the subject line "BAG". Without quotes, of course.

One of these days soon, I'll update my FAQ post on this.

[BigandScary]

thanks, that was easy.

[Nikolai]

So, setup is all done, and it's time to e-mail Gods? Or did you just explain for later?

Where can I get map and mods, for testing? I wanted try my design before submitting.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Maps not yet done. The game cannot start. But gods can be emailed in anyways. You don't need to send in your pretender until we get the map together, but the system will accept them if you want to send them in before you forget, or something like that.

So, setup is not all done, but you can email your gods at any time you'd like, and resubmit if you have a change of heart.

I'll be randomly generating a few maps this evening, tomorrow evening, and Sunday. At that point, I'll upload some of what I think are the most interesting, and then Velusion and I will select one and work through it.

Fortunately, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings can not be hijacked by my job, just a need for sleep. So I can say with confidence that we'll have selected a map by monday or tuesday and started work preparing it. If none of the random generated maps I will create turn out to be suitable, we'll go with the best judgment of Velusion and the map he suggested.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Precentage water = precentage area, not precentage provinces. Water provinces are larger, but fewer.

100 rugged, otherwise standard
20% water on a 300 province map yielded about 17, instead of the expected 60. I'll tweak ruggedness in the opposite direction, and then back to normal and then experiment with water levels. But my next two experiments are staying at 20% water, isolating just what Ruggedness does.

Try 2:
Ruggedness 0 gives me a map entirely full of water. Interesting. This may play a larger factor in the proper water distro than I expected.

Try 3: Rugged 5 produces a nice looking map, with two size 10-15 lakes. So, about 10% expected no of sea provinces.
Mark A
Try 4: Rugged 5 produces a ridiculously water heavy map, where the water area is more like 40 or 50% than 20.
Mark B
Try 5: same. This time, one expected size, somewhat large (maybe 30) province lake.
Try 6: Rugged 50. One frikkin huge water area- not as bad as the worst case of the 5 rugged, but a lot further from the 20% surface area than I expected. The number of provinces is fairly close, though.

Other unmentioned ruggedness tests... The higher the ruggedness, the more reliably low the water count is. Maybe this has something to do with how the game draws the terrain, and not the provincial divide? A search turns up the same question, but no answers I can find.

30-40 sea, rugged produces favorite results so far. I'll experiment in different ways tomorrow. Such as 20-20.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Here's a map I rather like the layout of. I'd like your opinions on it. But first, a disclaimer. Keep in mind that if I do use this map, I'll reduce the number of sea provinces, though not the total area of water.

P.S. Pooh. Can't upload a .7z seven zip archive.
Uploaded map in .zip, lossy jpeg preview on xs.to.

http://xs119.xs.to/xs119/07376/raw_map.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs119&d=07376&f=raw_map.jpg)

[Jazzepi]

Looks fine to me. If you're going to reduce the number of water provinces all around. R'yleh shouldn't start anywhere in the left lake.

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

Also keep in mind that the less "square" a map is the more map edge exists. Long maps like that mean that people will have less neighbors and directions to expand in.

I'm fine with it though if everyone else is.

[Baalz]

Gah, sorry I'm gonna have to bow out of this one. I'm having trouble doing the turns for the games I'm already in, and a couple look like they're gonna take even more time in the near future. Have fun!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Best of fun to you, Baalz. We're open for Ctis, then.

I'm going to attach a mod-pack containing all the mods for the game, but first I'll just list the components and see if there's any objections or suggestions.

Blessing Hotfix (a component of the Black Tome of Alisophocale (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=500877)
The rest can be found in the The Mod List (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3smm&Number=495854)
Worthy Heroes
New Ulm, Iron Faith reborn
Vaettihiem, Exiled Tribes
Streamers and Standards

[Burnsaber]

I heard from Sombre that Ulm Reborn mod already fixes the "undead bless" bug (since they have some blessable undead).

[llamabeast]

When are you planning to start this game?

[calmon]

@Lazy_Perfectionist

maybe you can change the thread title.

Write something like
"Game ready to start. One nation stil free to take (C'Tis)!"

With your text "Looking to replace Ctis" people could think this is a running game and they have to replace a player. But this isn't the case.

I would like to see this game starting. People will (and have) start to drop out if it takes too long to initialize.

[Evilhomer]

In order to start the game, people need to start uploading their pretenders - less than half are uploaded so far.

[Szumo]

Perhaps some people would rather know at least how many land and water provinces will be there before they design their pretenders...

[Warhammer]

I actually fall into that group.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I plan on pushing out a final map by Tuesday-Wednesday. I'll have to fix some other things. I don't know exactly what the water's going to look like. But I will tell you my plans.

Plan A: Left lake 10-12 water provinces. Right lake 10-12.

If I can't comfortably shrink the right lake, then plan B

Plan B: Left lake shrunk to six, unstartable (for either R'lyeh or Atlantis), and right lake mostly as is, with a few small cuts.

I much prefer Plan A. But anyways, there's a few potential problems I need to take care of. The northeastern most portion of land is all no-start, for instance, and not really connected to the mainland. Either a sailing nation (other than Atlantis) needs to be there (Who sails late era?) or I need to create ports/connections, or we've just increased the power of whatever amphibious nation starts there.

So... fixed starting position for Marignon or ports (draw connections) or both? Probably ports alone, so as to make it accessible to invaders or land-bound nation.

For starting points is the rule of thumb four connected provinces, or three?

[Hadrian_II]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
For starting points is the rule of thumb four connected provinces, or three?



The count is not as important as the ressources you can get, 2 mountains and a farmland are much better than 6 deserts.

[Jazzepi]

Lazy, you do know that only R'yleh starts in the water. Even if there are multiple water starting locations, Atlantis always starts on land.

Jazzepi

[Snacktime]

Hi all! I would be happy to join as C'tis. Just tell me if I'm in and when you'd need a pretender.

[Velusion]

Hadrian_II said:

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
For starting points is the rule of thumb four connected provinces, or three?



The count is not as important as the ressources you can get, 2 mountains and a farmland are much better than 6 deserts.



True, but as a general rule four provinces will put everyone on a much more even footing and helps to prevent someone from being stuck with an absolutely horrible starting position.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

IME Atlantis always starts on the shore, at least I've never seen them landlocked. So, yes, only R'lyeh starts in the water. So if I went with plan b, I'd prevent Atlantis from starting at the small lake so that R'lyeh got a huge uncontested swath of water. If I can manage Plan A though, I won't worry.

Snacktime, glad to have you onboard. We're looking at a Saturday start time (barring objections/problems), so you (and everyone else) should probably send in your pretender by Friday.

First few posts updated.

[Snacktime]

Great! Looking forward to it.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Unfortunately, I'm not yet an elegant user of the map editor. It took me a while to figure out why I was loading the wrong map file (apparently, renaming it to .bak can confuse it, best to move it out to a subdirectory), and my GIMP work ruined all the connections. I'm going to have to rebuild them all before its playable.

Still, if you're curious what I've done so far...

[Evilhomer]

Can you reupload your pretender to the lama server ?- forgot what I had. I belive I have a better build now however.

[Burnsaber]

Evilhomer said:
Can you reupload your pretender to the lama server ?- forgot what I had. I belive I have a better build now however.



Yes, just do the sending again and the new pretender will overwrite the old one.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Work = hell. Problems = true. [censored] hit fan. One problem as soon as the previous one has been solved. Was working 10 and 1/2 hours yesterday.

Map = no progress since last upload.

Velusion, if you could do anything to the map, be it mountain provinces or reconnecting or whatever, I'd be undyingly grateful. I'm certain to find some time to work on the map, so if you upload after you do something, I'll work on whatever you haven't touched upon. If you can't, well... the map will get done a little late. My problems aren't technical but time related.

[Janlm]

we where supposed to start today right? as far as i can tell we are still 8 pretenders short...

[Jazzepi]

I've been waiting for the map to be uploaded so that I could take a look at it before deciding how to build LA R'yleh, since it isn't finished yet, I haven't bothered to upload.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I guess we'll have to push it back a week. Sorry about this.

[duke_commando]

sorry about sending my guy in late, i was moving into school this week and completely forgot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Evilhomer]

I signed up for another game, so I will not be able to play in this one (because of time). So miclan is free ...

[calmon]

I'm not sure when this will start but i'm away from Sept.27th-Oct.3rd so please wait till i'm back or take me out of the game. Its difficult/complicate to find subs for a not started game.

[BigandScary]

Are we not starting Saturday?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

No. But here is the deal, no more false promises.
On Sunday, I will devote a good chunk of time into fixing the random map. If I don't see satisfactory progress after an hour's worth of work, I'll post here, update everything, and ask Velusion to upload the random map he generated earlier. The one he thought was best.

In short, it doesn't look like we're starting this Saturday. I am now willing to cut corners, rather than completely customize the map (it is my first try, and I should have prepared it first, then organized the game. I've learned my lessons). My original plans included ports, caves, etc. It was way to ambitious.

[Velusion]

Ahhh... I wasn't sure if this was still on...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow of of this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. Too much stuff on my plate.

Good luck!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Well, could you at least upload that map you generated earlier? I'll take it from there. If I don't have to remove provinces, and than reconnect, then the amount of preparation will drop by a factor of ten. And the one you generated already has an acceptable number of sea provinces. So if you could upload it, that would be a big help- even if you don't adjust the mountains or anything, its still going to take me less time to get that ready than the one I working on.

[Velusion]

Sure, I can do that. Where do I upload it?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Uhmm.. off the top of my head...
RapidShare.de
megaupload.com

If it's less than 2.5 megabytes, you can use xs.to as well. PNG is a lossless compressed format you can use if the two map formats don't work. They describe the acceptable formats at the bottom of the page.

If 2.5 megabytes is too much, you'll need to zip it and upload to one of those two sites. As well, I think this forum has a fairly large attachment size. You may be able to attach it here.

[Velusion]

Ahh... I thought you might want it someplace specific. I'll host it on my site when I get home tonight (at work now).

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Ah well, no place specific for me.
I used to have an ftp server, but not anymore.

[Burnsaber]

How about this? It's wraparound, beautiful and about the right size.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=553219&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post553285

[llamabeast]

Does indeed look good.

[Reverend Zombie]

Nifty looking map, Burn!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I like that map, but I have a couple of questions about it I can answer as soon as I get home. So, it's wraparound? It has mountains? It also leaves some flexibility for sailing nations. I preliminary approve PashaDawg's map Epotara.

[Velusion]

Bah - it looks like the randommapgen script I used overwrote the old ones I made. I can generate some more for this game if need be. LEt me know.

I didn't look at the numbers but burnsabre's looks pretty good...

[Burnsaber]

Damn, people! It's not my map, but Pashadawgs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

Direct all postiive comments to him.

[Velusion]

Burnsaber said:
Damn, people! It's not my map, but Pashadawgs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

Direct all postiive comments to him.



That aside I think you did an awesome job in creating the map Burnsaber....

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

In the spirit of confusing things, congratulations on your birthday, PashaDawg.

[PashaDawg]

Thanks, L.P. I just ran out to get cake and ice cream to celebrate in proper style.

Thanks to Burnsaber. I appreciate everything you've done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Let me know, if you find any errors in the map.

Pasha

[Reverend Zombie]

PashaDawg said:
Thanks, L.P. I just ran out to get cake and ice cream to celebrate in proper style.

Thanks to Burnsaber. I appreciate everything you've done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Let me know, if you find any errors in the map.

Pasha



Please don't be too hard on Burnsaber for any errors you find in his map!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

First few posts updated. 14 out of 20 nation pretenders, though some of those players may have left us.

So, opinions on when to start?
Did I miss any other people who had to back out? I caught Evilhomer and Velusion (Caelum and Mictlan- replacements welcomed).

Any questions I should be asking?

[Janlm]

maybe you should ask the other way around, who are still with us? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
First few posts updated. 14 out of 20 nation pretenders, though some of those players may have left us.

So, opinions on when to start?
Did I miss any other people who had to back out? I caught Evilhomer and Velusion (Caelum and Mictlan- replacements welcomed).

Any questions I should be asking?



I still haven't submitted my pretender because I don't know what map we're playing. Are we using the custom map that PashaDawg made?

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Yes.

[Jazzepi]

You might want to mention that in the first post.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Here's a mod pack containing all the mods we'll be using.

Jazzepi: At the time of that post, it was already in my first four posts.

[AdmiralZhao]

Awesome. Thanks for making it so easy for us.

[llamabeast]

I recommend PMing the people who have not submitted pretenders. That tends to work well.

Also LP, if you give me a list of any submitted pretenders that need to be removed, I can do that.

[PashaDawg]

Howdy:

Just my three cents: I find it is very helpful to players to use the first post in the thread to include a complete summary of the game settings including:

1. List of players / nations
2. List of mods
3. List of other settings (e.g., indy strength, research setting, etc.)
4. The map used
5. When the game will start
6. Hosting schedule, if applicable

And so forth.

Okay... I will stop typing now and finish my cake and ice cream. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Pasha

[Burnsaber]

PashaDawg said:
Okay... I will stop typing now and finish my cake and ice cream. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Pasha



Hey, that's my cake you're eating! Or wait.. My birthday was a month ago! (I just put up a wrong date in when I registered). I was overly suspicious when I didn't have any cake and ice cream on my birthday. You ate it! From the Future, nonetheless! Well played, Burnsa.. Pasha.

Thanks for using my awesome map! I worked really hard on it, but I'd like to thank myself for advertising it on this thread..

Hmm. Now I'm confused myself. I don't know if I'm Burnsaber or Pashadawg! I remember something about a map.. the rest is hazy, please try again later.

Since I don't know who I am anymore, I'll just rebuild my personality from scratch. I shall henceforth be known as Mister Guanimoq, conqueror of Spain!

[Reverend Zombie]

Burndawg! Pashasaber!

[Nikolai]

I signed with Man, a long time, I believe. I am downloading zip file, and will create pretender as soon as possible.

Once I made her, e-mail her to pretenders@llamaserver.net?

From where do we get map? Also, are Vaettiheim and Ulm 100% same as in the NewXekimina game?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Okay. I propose start date of Saturday, the 13th. Objections?
If there are none, it will be finalized, locked in stone this Sunday. Organize things, I will, more, in future. Work? Pain in the ***. At least today we've got the AC back.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Updated the first few posts. (As there is a limit of one attachment per post) I've attached the mods and map to the first and fourth post (third by me) in the thread.

I'll PM all the members about the start date of the game and see if they're still good to go.

I don't know what version is used in NewXekimina, unfortunately.

Once you make her, email her to that address you mentioned, Nikolai. I've also mentioned in the first four posts, along with some clearer instructions in my mini-faq, along with an optional link to the Llamaserver FAQ. My posts on the first page have been brought up to date, and are accurate as of Friday Oct. 05, 2007.

We're also recruiting replacements for Mictlan and Caelum.

[Nikolai]

I already have sent her. She appeared as Chelms. I guess it's Man's name in late age. Should I do more?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Nope. You're good.

[AlgaeNymph]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Two players had to drop out, so Big Arse Game is open again, and looking for a person to submit a pretender for Caelum and Mictlan.

I'll take Caelum.

This is LA Caelum, right? I know post #2 says the game is late age but I wanted to make sure since I saw two Ulms, and I thought Ulm Reborn displaces the default LA Ulm.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Yes, this is standard Late Age Caelum.

With the latest version of Ulm Reborn, it takes up a mod slot so we need not displace the original Ulm. Civil war!

Welcome to the game, DyraUnda.

[Burnsaber]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:

With the latest version of Ulm Reborn, it takes up a mod slot so we need not displace the original Ulm. Civil war!




Yeah it's a bit silly, that I have Neutoboren Guardians and he has Ghoul Guardians, apparently we both won a long siege in the same town?

I'm just throwing up words from my arse, but what about this explanation. When the fall of Ulm was nigh some supernatural entity* did some kickass spell and made two different timelines (Note: Trousers of Time), one where ulm ascended into light and one where they descendented into darkness. When the timelines came together, both Ulms noticed that there is some asskicking to be done.

*Possibilites include: Aufglarung, ReverendZombies pretender and some R'lyeh starspawns who thought that it would be a funny practical joke.

[Dedas]

I can take Mictlan. Uploading pretender i 10 minutes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Dedas]

Mictlan is already taken so I can't upload. What to do?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Uhmm... It should allow you to send in your pretender and replace Mictlan. If not, I've already fired off a request to Llamabeast to clear the slot. We'll just wait to hear from him.

[Dedas]

Thank you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[calmon]

Sorry for dropping so late but i decided not to start another dom3 mp game. Patala is free to take over.

[Janlm]

jeez, this is getting redicules...

[Dedas]

I cannot take over Patala before Llama removes it from the server so I can upload my pretender.

[llamabeast]

Mictland and Patala removed. Sorry for the delay - no internet access at home still (since moving house a month ago!), grr.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

No problem with the delay, llamabeast. I've got a whole week left to go.

As an aside, I'm looking towards for a minimum 80% occupancy. I of course prefer a full slate. But I thought I'd mention that just in case.

[Warhammer]

I'm still in, responding here rather than PM.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Thank you.
12 confirmed out of 20. (Response and submitted pretender). Out of the remainder, I expect most will be here for the game. A few were delayed for whatever reason, but that's why I gave a weeks notice via PM.
19 pretenders submitted.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

UPDATE
Seventeen confirmed out of twenty (Responded and submitted pretender).
Nineteen submitted out of twenty. The exception is Patala, which is open, cleared, and ready for the taking.

We will be using version 3.10. It should have no effect on your pretenders, and little effect on late era nations.

I'll start the game on schedule, Saturday. I've got enough confirmed players. If all the players listed in my second post as 'submitted' contact me, or post in this thread, I'll start immediately.

Papastoss, MAJ_Disgrace.

The first turn will be on a generous timer. After that, 30 hour quickhost until otherwise requested.

Replacements for Patala are welcome. Uncertain whether to open a slot for Pythium.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Beep bop boop bump.

Still good to go on Saturday. Still have opening for Patala. May have opening for new Pythium if someone can actually be ready to go with a new nation by that time.

And to clarify, this game will be taking place with version 3.10. It should have little immediate effect on most of you- though I'm hoping to see the new sites.

[Burnsaber]

I'll be gone for the weekend (from 12th day to 15th). Any chance to delay the hosting while I'm gone?

I'm sorry for this, but I think that it wouldn't be any stop to starting the game, everyone can send in their first turn, the second turn would just be made a bit late..

[Dedas]

Sigh, it seems this game will never get started...

[Aristander]

I will take Patala if it is still open.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Yessir. Patala->Open->Aristander->now closed.
Glad to have you onboard.

Burnsaber->Contemplating.
Could you give me some specific time? So, you won't be back on the fifteenth? I'd considered putting the first turn on a 50 hour timer as standard, but excluding you from the equation, I might stretch it a little further just because its such a large game and been such a big deal to organize. Including you in the equation, I'd need a specific, GMT time.

So, I'm undecided on the burnsaber request- but I'll think it over and post later tonight.

[Lord_Bob]

I'd be willing to play Pythium, but if Aristander was willing, I'd like to play Patala instead. I spent last night making sure my novel idea for them worked, and I'd really like to try it out in multi-player.

However, I'll play Pythium if he isn't willing to switch.

I should have researved the slot before I went to sleep. Hmph.

[Burnsaber]

I'll probably be able to make my turn on Monday (15th day) morning. Forcehost at 12.00 GMT on Monday the 15th? Is that okay?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

RE: Lord_Bob
Once this game gets going, I'll be reincarnating my Halls of Valhalla thread where I organize smaller 8 player games (much quicker to start, too). If you can't talk Aristander into switching, then I'll reserve Patala for a few days after I start recruiting. But that's then, not now, and you'll have to claim it when I resurrect the thread.

RE: Burnsaber
Short Answer: Yes. Doable. No problem. The first turn will host around 16:00 GMT Monday.
Long, Meandering Answer:

Well, its actually Llamabeast who will start the game- it depends on his internet access. I'll be administrating it, though. And my original plans call for it to start on Saturday. I'd be awake around 10:00 local time, back from work at five. So we'll round the planned start time to 16:00 GMT- though it depends as well upon the llama.

One of the typical schemes for multiplayer is setting the first turn to take 48 hours. So take 16:00 GMT on Saturday, add 48, and you get 16:00 GMT Monday. I don't know precisely when llama will start things, but I don't mind fudging things a bit since it is so close to my original plan. A Wednesday would be completely out of the question, but anytime Monday is no problem whatsoever.

RE: Dedas
We'll still be starting at our usual time. And our hosting schedule should be close to planned.

[Aristander]

Lord Bob, I am happy to honor your request and switch to Pythium. Blood and Elephants? ?

No worries. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Aristander

[llamabeast]

We should use the new hotfix (see Endoperez' post in the mod forum) that fixes issues with 3.10.

Note to self: Mustn't forget...

[Dedas]

I agree on that.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

If llamabeast puts it on his server, sure. If not, well... we're going to be starting on time unless its critical.

I'm not sure what errors are in 3.10...

[duke_commando]

is there any way for me to check which pretender I sent in?
I've forgotten who I sent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

No. No way to check.
You should be able to send in a replacement though, and achieve the same result.

[Aristander]

The 3.10 Quickfix mostly gives Hydras back their sacred special ability.

Since I am playing Pythium I would like the Quickfix in.

Thanks everyone

Aristander

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I have no objections to the 3.10 quickfix. It shouldn't require any pretender redesign. It's just that Llamabeast hasn't his own internet access, and I'm afraid of delaying the game further. Ifn he starts it without loading the hotfix, I'm afraid to ask him to switch us over, though maybe it will be painless.

[llamabeast]

I will try not to forget the hotfix! And it will not delay me starting it, so long as I don't forget. Also I will def start the game this weekend, though not right now as I have about one minute before I have to run off. It's a real pain, this no-internet-access-at-home business.

[Jazzepi]

Do we need to download the hotfix?

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Just a guess, but IMO:
We'll need to download the hotfix, but we need not resubmit our pretenders, since it won't change point scores or anything.

[Dedas]

Edi just released an improved hotfix. Maybe we should use that instead?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Maybe. Llama will let us know when he starts, and there's no problem with downloading both. When our turn files arrive, it'll automatically activate the mods for us.

[AdmiralZhao]

Sorry if I missed this, but how do you update your pretender? I sent in a new one this morning, and received the reply:

"
I received a pretender file from you, but unfortunately the game has just filled up. Sorry!

Details of your e-mail:
Subject: BAG
Sent at: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 10:55:02 -0500
Attachment: late_midgard_0.2h
"

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Llamabeast... that's how.

I've seen that error message before - but not when 2 slots are open. I've only seen it when 8 out of 8 are submitted, or something similar. Sorry I can't be more helpful- but I recommend PMing Llamabeast. It's out of my hands until the game is up and running. Then I can admin things.

[Szumo]

So, are we going to finally start anytime soon?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

See previous page, Szumo. I'm sorry, but that's all I can say or do.


llamabeast said:
I will try not to forget the hotfix! And it will not delay me starting it, so long as I don't forget. Also I will def start the game this weekend, though not right now as I have about one minute before I have to run off. It's a real pain, this no-internet-access-at-home business.

[llamabeast]

Hi guys - really sorry, I am getting a bit swamped - I have a big deadline coming up and have hardly been in the office - and no internet at home still. Aaagh!

I have to leave in a couple of minutes and don't think I will make it back to the lab tonight, but I promise I will definitely start the game tomorrow - really sorry to cause delays. Apologies for being over-optimistic about starting at the weekend - I only had those few minutes on a machine all weekend in the end! It is very odd for someone like me who's used to spending far too much time on the internet.

As for the rejection of updated pretenders - I've got all your messages, and my mail backups have stores of all your updated pretenders. You've hit a known bug that I really should remember to fix. I will make sure to use the latest versions of pretenders before I start the game.

[llamabeast]

Actually on looking again I am also somewhat surprised it rejected your revised pretenders - normally that happens when the game is full, which this one isn't. Hmm.

[Nikolai]

Guys, I have to exit this game. It's taking so long to start, and I would rather sign on another.

So Man is free. Good luck, everyone!

[llamabeast]

Nikolai, it will start today!! Are you sure?

[llamabeast]

Hurrah, we've started!! Really sorry again for the delay. Should be rolling at full speed now though.

Have to say, I'm excited about this game, it looks great. Nice choice of settings and map, and it's cool to have the mod nations and late pythium in there.

I controversially didn't remove Nikolai, as it just seemed too sad to give up on a game starting on the same day as it starts. If he really doesn't want to play hopefully we can find a sub quickly - but Nikolai, you should play!

Now, Pythium and the mod nations won't actually have received their turns yet - little technical hitch. I will work on that now. Been Dominions-fixing for the last hour and a half - really hope my boss doesn't walk in!

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've got the turn files for Pythium, Vaettiheim and Ulm Reborn sent out. I'm optimistic they will work fine in future turns - let me know if there's any problems.

The problem with Pythium, you see, is that it is the only vanilla nation whose files don't have 'late_' or something in their names - it's just 'pythium.2h'. Weird.

Anyway, a couple of other things. Firstly, you'll need the hotfix mod. I'll attach it to the next post. Secondly, if you're not sure how to actually play your turn, read the LlamaServer FAQ (linked in my signature).

[llamabeast]

HotFix mod!

Have a good game guys! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Hadrian_II]

Argh, click on start game->
You miss a mod->
Install mod->
click on start game->
You miss a mod->
Install mod->
click on start game->
dom3 crashes->
start from console and look what it says->
missing map->
install map->
it works

btw. i love the caves on the map already. (Offcourse everyone agrees with me, that they belong to agartha)

[Janlm]

what post is the most recent map file attached to? can't find it...

[Janlm]

nevermind, i found it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Hadrian_II - sounds very familiar. I hate it when I then go home and play on my parents' computer etc, and have to go through the whole process again.

[Nikolai]

I will play. But it's horrible position for me, and will probably fall soonest.

I feel bad, because I took to many game, and even stalled a nation with a shot at winning... less a shot now. Too many games, not enough time to do service.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Well, hopefully our 30 hour schedule will be of some help, or you can ask one of the other servers to extend their turn time. I wish you the best of luck, and hope you exceed your expectations. If at any time you or anyone need a temporary delay, feel free to ask. I'll grant it if I see it in time.

Once enough people ask for/agree to it, we'll switch to a fifty-hour timer. But I don't expect that to happen before the third year, though I may be wrong about that.

[Aristander]

First I want to thank Llamabeast for his hard work for our game. Dealing with all these technical problems can be very frustrating, especially with a bunch of enthusiastic players breathing down your neck.
Thanks Llamabeast.

Now that I have buttered you up.

I sent in the turn for Pythium however, I received the LlamaServer couldn't find a valid 2h file return email.
It will be a major pain if the file has to be put in the server manually each time.

Please advise.

Aristander http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[llamabeast]

Thanks for the heads up Aristander. I think I've properly fixed the Pythium issue now (a right pest of a bug - why did they make it different to every other nation?), and resubmitted your turn for you.

[llamabeast]

Right, actually there's some more layers of Pythium bug to fix. I'm feeling somewhat disgruntled about this - virtually every bit of code has to have a separate option for LA Pythium - why Johan, why?

Anyway, I think it's just going to be impossible for me to fix in the next two days, since I really really need to do some work. Unfortunately Aristander we will have to spot when the turn has hosted and request a turn resend for you, since it doesn't send it out correctly when the turn hosts. I'll do that now - hope you'll have enough time to take your turn, otherwise I'm sure LP can give you an extension.

[Aristander]

Who can do the turn resend? Can LP do it?

I too would be curious as to why the LA Pythium file format is so different.

Well we will muddle through the best we can.

Thanks

Aristander