POLL - Weakest Among All

[void]

Instead of talking about [most powerful] which is quite boring and fuzzing, I would like to learn some opinions about [weakest-among-all] from you guys.

What do you consider the weakest one among all nations in each era? Vote 3 worst in your opinion and Let's try to get more buff than nerf in the future patch! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

* before you throw on me I'd like to let you know that there ARE fillers in this poll. Please don't yell "WTF why is this nation listed in the weakest poll! no way could it be!" on me, thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[sum1lost]

Yomi is the weakest early age? Only thing that isn't good about them is their early game. They have an intense middle and late game. Dai Oni ROCK.

[Tiavals]

I am curious, why are Agartha and T'ien C'hi considered weak? Especially mid T'ien C'hi, I consider them rather powerful, but obviously I am very inexperienced.

[Evilhomer]

Why does so many vote for Patala in late age?...in my opinion they are top 5 in late age.

[Ubercat]

Why do 90% of polls disallow viewing from people who don't vote? Some of us aren't qualified to judge the weakest faction, or the best magic item, etc. Our newby votes would just skew the results because we'd be guessing.

We'd still like to see the results though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[djo]

Ditto! I haven't even played all those nations yet, much less ranked them.

[KissBlade]

Tiavals said:
I am curious, why are Agartha and T'ien C'hi considered weak? Especially mid T'ien C'hi, I consider them rather powerful, but obviously I am very inexperienced.



TC have the worst battle magic out of all of MA.

[Xietor]

The problem with polls is anyone can vote. Which is fine. But you really need the opinion of the hardcore mp players to ascertain the truth. I did not vote on the early or late ages because I do not consider myself qualified to vote.

How many others abstained because they are not"experts?"

But to understand the balance issues of the races of the various races you need to know how all the spells work, and the units and mages of every other race in the eras.

[Salamander8]

I didn't vote for 3 per era as I don't consider many of these weak besides MA where I voted for Agartha, Ulm, and Tien Chi. Mictlan is on my list for MA as well, but with only 3 to pick, I chose these.

Early I voted for Marverni only. EA R'Lyeh has some problems getting a strong foothold on land early, but they have good mages and the Mind Lords have Enslave Mind as a normal attack. I can see where some people shake their heads at playing them though. I was surprised to see Yomi getting any weak votes. I have always done very well with them, barring my first ever MP game where the issue was my poor play, not their performance.

Late I chose only Abysia as they are a notorious underachiever. The rest I have not played much or have done well with.

[Atreidi]

Biased poll http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Humakty]

Atreidi said:
Biased poll http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif


True, why Jotun in mid ? Why why?
There should be all the factions. I've heard some people WON with Agartha. I think the power you think a faction has depends of how you do play yourself.
I voted nonetheless...
PS : I think TC can have a great magic late game.

[Alderanas]

I only voted on the ones that i have played with or against alot.

[Tuidjy]

> > I am curious, why are Agartha and T'ien C'hi considered weak? Especially mid
> > T'ien C'hi, I consider them rather powerful, but obviously I am very
> > inexperienced.
>
> TC have the worst battle magic out of all of MA.

Their "build anywhere" mages are worse than Ulm's. Make that much worse than
Ulm's. Their capital only mages can be nice, but you never get enough of
them, and they can be mind dueled by many enemies that cost one third as much.
Their magic picks are an exercise in frustration... They can get very useful
mages with a good roll, but somehow you never get what you hope for. And when
someone is fighting you and you need something specific there and then, you
do not want to wait and wait.

I would like to see some love for MA TC myself.

[Sandman]

I had a decent run with MA T'ien Ch'i in the Faerun PBEM with a dormant earth-9 cyclops. The earth bless is great for TC, and getting a hammer economy started early synergises with their good site searching potential.

Magic duel is a pain. Not much you can do except use Masters of the Way with items and matrixes, or indy mages.

[Salamander8]

I really wish that the poll had all (stock) nations for every era. I only voted for nations I have tried or played against enough to feel I can say anything about.

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont think the poll spelled out enough of what it wanted. Im GUESSING that he wants the comparison in multiplayer mode on average maps with default settings. So I didnt bother answering since thats about the least version of the game that I play.

[Sombre]

I think he was pretty clear. Which nation do you think is weakest in each age?

He didn't say "Which nation consistently loses in MP only on the map silent seas on wednesdays by turn 15 or by turn 10 has less than 2 provinces when using defaults with supply set to 50% magic sites to 10% and the moon full or close to it?" because he's asking a general question.

[Gandalf Parker]

yeah ok http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[llamabeast]

MA TC is going to get a lot of love when the next patch finally comes out. It looks like Kristoffer's added loads of stuff to it.

[void]

120 total votes? so i guess that's it :p
to my suprise there are filler nations got vote...*cough*
i'll, on the other hand, consider most "others" votes without explanation "i don't want to vote, just here to see the result" :p
thank you guys! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Velusion]

Just curious... why did people rank LA Abysia so poorly?

[Autochthon]

djo said:

Ditto! I haven't even played all those nations yet, much less ranked them.



Yeah, same here - I'm almost getting familiarized with the EA nations. Do you have any inkling of how long it would take to be able to give an informed opinion on all of them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[SelfishGene]

EA Marverni and Ulm really aren't that bad - it's just that everyone else is better. Marverni has a strong middle game with the new Uber spell Gifts of Heaven (which seems to be the strongest mid-level spell in the game, as it's not too exhausting and kills virtually anything), and Ulm has many stealthy troops with good ranged and melee options. But when you're going up against so many of the powerful units in EA, they get whomped pretty quick unless you've just destroyed their scales and taken a generic SC pretender like every other weak nation. Bare-chested warriors seem an implausible unit, as their weakness to ranged fire makes them extremely expensive, low-morale chaff. I'd rather have a line of Ctis' 10/10 City Guards myself if i need a rearguard.

I like Tien Chi despite their weaknesses. Not having a death caster hurts in the long run though.

[Gandalf Parker]

I also agree that it would be nice to see the results without having to add to it

[Meglobob]

EA Marverni and MA Ulm do very much deserve the votes they both got.

MA Ulm is weak all the way through the game, they need a HUGE amount of good luck, more than luck-3 can provide. To do well as MA Ulm you after hope you get neighbours you can fight, ie...no tramplers, no strong bless nation. You also need to get incredibly lucky on site searching, so you have some kind of late game.

EA Marverni is very weak in the early game. Mid/late game are not too bad because of the strong astral/earth magic. However, they will usually be knocked out early or be stuck with a small kingdom, which will wither away.

EA Ulm and LA Ulm are getting tarred with same brush as MA Ulm which is unfair. EA Ulm/LA Ulm are both decent nations. LA Ulm is a excellent blood hunting nation, with a excellent spy/mage leader, a free chaff creating leader and tough troops. EA Ulm has access to a bless strategy of its own, still has the forge bonus but with more magic paths to take advantage, those warrior maidens are decent and they have good nature magic, along with access to several different paths.

MA Agartha is weak'ish early on but does have some strong possibilities later. It could do with a few more leader/mage units. EA Agartha/LA Agartha are perfectly balanced nations.

MA T'ien C'hi is not that bad either and is going to get strengthed in the upcoming patch, same with MA Mictlan.

As far as LA Abysia is concerned, just compare MA Abysia with LA Abysia, then you realize why they got so many votes.

[Humakty]

Meglobob, your comments seem clever enougth so I have almost nothing to had, except on two points :
-I never won a game with EA agartha, and I still wonder how people do....
-LA Abysia will also be changed in next patch, for the moment they can easily control twenty provinces before having a MAJOR logistic pbm (mages capital only)(I don't consider a 1X thing to be a mage)(if only it was blood!!).
I consider them even weaker than MA Ulm, but its my own sensibility.

[sum1lost]

Take advantage of ea agartha's summons. And use earth buffs like 'army of lead' without reservation.