Epic Heroes Mod II(Game Finished)(Lolomo Winner)

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes Mod I is finished. It was a fun 12 player mp game that used the Epic Heroes Mod, Worthy Heroes, and blessing hot fix.

Based on the results of Epic Heroes I, many changes were implemented to the heroes. While there were some tiny nerfs, most Epic Heroes got boosts and will be more Epic.

EH mod 1.5

http://www.mediafire.com/?5qynuxwshci



Epic Heroes is a MA Era Mod. And players can play any race of that era. The goal of the Epic Heroes Mod has evolved. The goal now is for every race to have a Hero on turn 1 that is capable of changing how that race is played.

Virtually every race can withstand an early rush without taking an awake pretender. And races can sleep or imprison pretenders where they otherwise would not dare. Of course some races with particularly tough heroes may take an awake pretender and try a rush strategy any way. The options are numerous-and that is a good thing.

The mods that will be used in Epic Heroes II are these:

1. Epic Heroes 1.5
2. Worthy Heroes 1.8 http://www.mediafire.com/?8lglxjfhfjf

3. Kitchen Sink Mod: http://www.mediafire.com/?1zgo3sg2hdx

Mod that increases the cost for gem producing items, it will also prevent the casting of the 4 banned spells, and contain certain Edi noted bug fixes for 3.10.

Links to all mods used and the map will be provided when they are obtained.

The size of the map(and what map will be used) will depend on the number of players that choose to sign up.

Host Schedule:48 hours per turn and quickhost will be on. There will be extensions freely given over Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year if any player requests additional time. Delays will be granted at other times also, but typically not for more than 24 hours. Staling 2 turns in a
row without notice or explanation will result in a sub or ai taking over your race.

A word of caution. There were several experienced mp in Epic Heroes I, and that created some early mismatches when they faced new players. Some of these same experienced players have stated that they will play in Epic Heroes II. So if you are a new or relatively new player, be forewarned.

The following spells will be banned:

1. Arcane Nexus
2. Utter Dark
3. Burden of Time
4. Astral Corruption.

Two notable exploits that will also be banned;

1. If you capture bogus and his Dark Knight, you can script those captured units to attack mages, but you cannot copy their "attack mage" orders to other commanders.

2. You cannot cast battlefield enchantments that cause damage to enemy units, then retreat the casting mage before 5 rounds of combat passes. In other words, if you cast Wrathful Skies, you cannot order that mage to retreat before 5 turns has passed(your last available scripting order can be retreat).

In testing the Heroes, you should make sure to take a dom 10 awake pretender and click through several turns as many of them have powerful units that appear(but not often) in very strong dominion. These dominion summons will not appear at all in enemy dominion, and only rarely in low dominion.

Some notable changes:

1.The Blood Jarl of Jotunheim produces 2 bs a turn, and can make a tough unit at the rate of every turn. Not to mention the ice imps that flock to him. He also has a wicked dominion summon. Of course if you use him to make 1 tough unit a turn, he cannot be out blood hunting-and there is no better blood hunter than the Blood Jarl! Decisions, decisions.

2. Following a similar theme, the Black Phoenix produces 3 bs a turn. And has similar perks(fire imps of course, not ice imps).

3. Atlantis-that Epic Hero got major boosts as both the hero and the race were underpowered in MP.

4. Ermor-maybe the toughest Epic Hero of them all. Coupled with maybe the toughest mp race of the MA....

5. Shinuyama's Epic Hero(and all other assassin Epic Heroes)
lost their fear, as it was overpowered), but he now can make 1 Shishi a turn. And that more than makes up for losing fear.

6. Ulm-only makes 2, rather than 3 Black Order Soldiers a turn, but get some boosts in magic paths and can domsummon a Dark Templar. His forge bonus was reduced from 50 to 34 as well.

7. Beowulf of Man is the same, except he now has a rare summon as well.

8. Tien Chi got everything Dr. P wanted him to get-so look out.

9. Agartha got major boosts.

10. Bandar Log's Monkey King is both bigger and stronger!

As for your other favorite races, you will just have to try them out.


The cast of characters:

1. Xietor.............Arcos(resigned turn 91).

2. Sir_Dr_D ..........Marignon(resigned turn 91).

3. Zeldor.............Ryleh(defeated turn 29)

4. Hadrian_II ........Bandar Log(ai turn 49)

5. Sieger..........Ermor
5A AdmiralZhao....Endgame(permanent sub)(ai turn 90).

6. Dr P................Agartha(eliminated turn 45).

7. Zoshan.............Pythium(resigned turn 91).

8. Aapeli ............Ulm(eliminated turn 19).

9. LoloMo ............Caelum(Winner).

10. Janlm............Ctis(eliminated turn 27).

11. Shard/Zeldor/Baalz.............Atlantis(ai turn 85).

12. Valerius .........Abysia(Ai turn 88).

13. Meglobob .........Mictlan(ai turn 46).

14. Tichy.............Tien Chi(ai turn 64).

15. Gregstrom.........Oceania (eliminated turn 6).

16. Baltz.............Eriu(ai turn 77).

17. Agema.............Man(eliminated turn 75).

18. Parcelt...........Shinuyama (eliminated turn 24).


Updated Map Files

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ucgmdjadnb

[Evilhomer]

Mediafire fails to work everytime I try to dl from it. Site seems good at opening banners and spamming flashy things that im not interested in thought.

[Xietor]

Crap-i will have a look at it(:

[Xietor]

Link is working now. Not sure what I did wrong but i did the upload over and it now works.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

Couldn't you somehow divide starting positions? So new players start close to new players and experienced ones near veterans? Mods look great but joining just to be smashed in 10 turns does not sound exciting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I can!

I'll arrange things so that I start in one corner with the other newbies, and all the experienced players start clustered in the other corner.

Sound fair? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

You have -500 points for choosing pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

A new player MAY be able to survive long enough to have fun.

Man is a good race for a new player. Beowulf is tough out of the box. While he has some decent summons, I feel it is a mistake to leave him in a capital summoning the entire game-as was done in Epic Heroes I.

Beowulf is a thug. He has great equipment and a devastating ranged attack. Summon for the 1st 2 turns, build longbows and start expanding. Research constr 2, make owl quills, then go evoc 5. Ignore the old age and get some crones out early.

Search sites. With longbows being one of your best units, you may want a pretender that can cast flaming arrows.

An off-the-cuff suggestion:

Master Lich 5d,4f, 1b 1w, dormant, 6 dom, 3 growth, 3 order, 2 cold, 1 magic. I usually take cold or hot based on who is playing what race. If a tough player has a cold race, i will take heat. if he likes heat, I take cold.

Master Lich is nice because immortal so he can be used safely in battles in your dominion. The 5d will allow him to get tartarian gates later in the game. The 4f allows him to cast flaming arrows. The fire/death combo allows for banefire. The water pick allows site searches, and the 1 blood allows a branch into blood if needed.

In short, Man is a good race for a new player. Tough Epic Hero out of the box, good research, evocation is great path for air mages. Get arrow fend/wind guide.

The 5 Death pretender allows for banelord thugs to counteract most anything other races can throw at you in the mid game.

[Zeldor]

I can think about it. Haven't tried that mod, so any other nice races to look at as a beginner?

[Sir_Dr_D]

I am in. As Marignon I vow to cleanse the world of all evil.

[Xietor]

Well,

The Ryleh is always a tough out in the water. They have a very tough assassin who kills 1 commander a turn that has a siege on an underwater castle. That is a serious handicap for the land races coming into the water to get you.

But I will not go into a complete set up of other races. Man made my fingers hurt.

Another very tough land race/epic hero combo is ermor.

Arcos and pythium are both devastating, but require much finesse to to develop. So i would not recommend either of them for a new player.

I would avoid the weaker MP races as a new player, Ulm, Atlantis, oceania, Tien Chi, Machaka. Shinuyama and Bandar Log require some expereince to play as well.

I would stick to heavy bless nations, Man, Ryleh, or Caelum. The Sacred Yeti of caelum is pretty tough.

Vanheim and caelum have the same air magic advantages as man, though are not as easy to play.

Vanheim in particular has an epic hero that can die easily if not played well.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

I think I could take a challenge and try as a R'lyeh. What map will the game use?

[Xietor]

I will get a "map expert" to design us a map when i know how many players we will have and how many water races.

I do not anticipate a start for a couple of weeks as some players may want to take their time in selecting a race. And I will also need time to get a consensus on the map, and have someone not playing select starting locations.

A hint for playing the Ryleh-always have a stealthed star child in the same province as your epic hero(with 2s boosters when possible). That will give other races a nasty surprise when they try and mind hunt your epic hero.

[Hadrian_II]

Im interested in playing Bandar Log, i hope the monkey king is big enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

No one played the Monkey King in Epic Heroes I, but he had 8 hp and 5 str. Those were increased a bit, and I think the Monkey King will be a tough out. He certainly has few vulnerabilities.

[Evilhomer]

I think I will go with abysia, I need fire to fend away those mysterious expert players that are in this game.

[Janlm]

i'm interested in playing this, need to figure out a race...

[Hadrian_II]

i tried to start a testgame and i got this funky error:
myloadmalloc: can't open /home/al/dominions3/mods/.\ehspr\sunwukong.tga
so i changed the sprite path from .\eh...
to eh... and it works now.

I dont really know what the problem is, as the game was able to load the banner of the mod that had his path in the same way...

[Janlm]

I don't suppose there is a list of all the cool new stuff you can get in this mod? so i can check it out before i get home? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

"i tried to start a testgame and i got this funky error:
myloadmalloc: can't open /home/al/dominions3/mods/.\ehspr\sunwukong.tga
so i changed the sprite path from .\eh...
to eh... and it works now."

Make sure both the DM file and the folder Ehspr folders are not inside another folder.

[Zoshan]

I would like to play Pythium if they are taken Ermor.

[Xietor]

Hadrian, your mod set-up should look like this:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/dbb2a6dee5301b15e34ab32ad9795f562g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=du1rzhgylvc&thumb=4)

With respect to Epic Heroes Mod you should see the DM file "Epic Heroes Mod 1.5" and a yellow folder named "ehspr". They should be visible when you open up mods under Dom III.

They should not be inside a yellow folder. If they are. Drag them out and destroy the yellow folder containing them.

* Ignore the other DM files and folders I have in my mod section as those are not relevant to this game. And you do not need a second DM file called Epic Heroes Mod as pictured above(that is an older version).

[Aapeli]

I would be intrested in playing ulm. I have to admit that i am a bit new to this epic heroes context but the nation is still my favorite.

[Xietor]

Everyone is new to the Epic Heroes context. There has only been 1 previous game involving the Epic Heroes Mod, and that only used 12 of the nations. And many of those heroes have changed.

Basically, you just need to make sure you have a good understanding of what your race's Epic Hero brings to the table BEFORE you design your pretender. An Epic Hero should allow you to play a race with many more options than exist without one in terms of pretender selection.

Once the game begins and you encounter other races, it is imperative that you understand what the Epic Heroes of your neighbors bring to the table so you can plan on how to counter them.

While my Epic Hero(Shinuyama) was pretty good in the last game, Dr. P killed him with 2 frozen hearts(: I had fire and lighting protection on him, and some mr items, but Dr. P noted a weakness and exploited it. While tough, any Epic Hero can be killed. As can any thug or sc. It is hard to protect against everything unless you are the Monkey King!

[LoloMo]

Jotunheim for me please =)

Never played the giants before, let's see what they've got!

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes II will have something not seen in the prior game-Blood!

Only 1 gem producing Epic Hero left-Atlantis.

[Hadrian_II]

I found the problem i have with the epic heroes mod, with the monkey king and the obsidian medium you set the paths this way: ".\ehspr\"

If i set the paths to "./ehspr/" (as all the other paths in your mod already are) then the mod works as he should.

and btw. why has the monkey king 200 fire res?

[Janlm]

i'll take C'tis

[Xietor]

"why has the monkey king 200 fire res?"

You would have to ask Endoperez as he designed the Monkey King And the Obsidian Medium.

For my part, I gave the Black Phoenix 200 fr so he will always be immune to fire damage. The Spell mass protection lowers your fr, as does certain items.

It made no sense to me that being made of fire not be immune to fire, so the Black Phoenix was given 200 fr. maybe Endoperez felt the same about the Monkey King.

Not sure why Endoperez had the / marks going the other way, but i never had an issue with it. Shrug. Both heroes work fine for me. Maybe you use an obscure operating system?

However, I will change it for the final version of the mod so others do not have that problem. For the present game, if anyone else has the issue, I will refer them to your post on how to fix those 2 heroes.

[shard]

I love this mod - so much so that all my sp games so far have been MA.

Would Atlantis be ok for an mp beginner? I'm already trying out Man in another mp game, and i'd like to try a water race to see what its like.

PS - Does luck also increase the probability at which your generic heroes spawn? How about hero freespawn or dominion spawn?

Edit - Changed Oceania to Atlantis after reading Xietor's earlier comment on races :p

[Xietor]

Thank you for the props on the Mod. Several other people contributed mightily to its development as well.

I think given the cast of characters in this game, no race will be great for a new player.

That said, the water offers the best protection and a new player took Ryleh. So if another newer player takes Oceania, then it could be a very fair fight beneath the waves.

Luck does increase the chance to get Worthy heroes by 1 percent per level of luck. So 3 luck gives you the base chance(3 percent) plus 3 percent. So a 6 percent chance per turn. Many of the Worthy Heroes are "Epic" themselves, so taking luck certainly could be a huge plus.

Luck has no effect on your free spawn. That is based on the strength of your dominion. The higher your dominion in the province where your Epic hero resides-the more free stuff you get.

With the Dominion summon Silver Orangs that Atlantis gets, it is in your best interest to take a strong dominion and leave your Epic hero in or close to the Capital.

I beefed Atlantis Epic Hero up a good bit. He produces 2d gems a turn. He also has "Death Touch," a 1 shot attack similar to a life for a life. He free spawns low level skellies AND Silver Orangs in strong dominion only.

Silver Orangs are quite good-especially on land where they have a ranged cold attack. The Silver Orangs are a dominion Summon, which frees up the Epic Hero to site search with Dark Knowledge while still mass producing a tough unit(in a strong dominion only).

My advice for Atlantis is to make make use of Death magic of your Epic Hero to get into Banelords once you move on to land. Key things for Atlantis_

1. try and get the Water Queens(along the way you can get banelords).

2. Frozen Heart/falling frost

But I have never played any of the water races-not my thing. So you may get better advice from Tyrant, Evilhomer, or another of the Kings of Water.

But yes, Atlantis is likely your best chance to prosper in this game.

Since we have 2 new players in the water, I will strive to make the map "friendly" to water races.

[Evilhomer]

I was considering changing to a water nation that I am not so very familiar with (either Atlantis or Oceania). I am not one of the veteran players but I guess its a stretch to call me a new player. Also I am very familiar with 1 water nation, so I have some related experience. If people have no problem with this I guess I will take whatever water nation is left (seems its oceania) after Shards pick.

[Gregstrom]

How often will the game be hosted?

[Valerius]

If Evilhomer switches to Oceania then I'd like Abysia.

[Xietor]

I updated the hosting schedule on the main page. 48 hours. Over the holidays the game will be on freeze if that is requested by anyone.

The game will be hosted on Llamaserver.

I doubt you will talk EH into giving up those free spawn imps! But you can try Val!

[Evilhomer]

I would not mind playing Oceania and giving Abysia away. I am however not sure if it is a great idea to stick me into the water with 2 very new players however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif. Not that I am pro or anything like that, but I do have some idea how to play water nations. I guess I will either stick to aby or look into some other cool hero+nation I like.

[Xietor]

No we do not want a "shark" in the water. If possible, I would like to reserve Oceania for another new player who wants to test the mod without getting rolled right off the bat.

[Xietor]

Ermor's Epic Hero-there is more to him than appears at 1st blush. It is my sincere and fervent hope no one takes Ermor and I get "stuck" with him.

Despite Shinuyama winning last game-that Epic Hero got a major major upgrade. He was actually not a factor at all last game, being killed off fairly early by the evil Dr. P.

Vanheim's Epic Hero is better than you think.

Mictlan's Epic Hero is awesome.

Sacred Yeti of Caelum is also a beast(literally).

All 5 of these races are pretty good mp races. Especially since Mictlan's boost in 3.10.

Shinuyama turned out to be much better than I had originally expected when I played them for the 1st time in the last game.

[Evilhomer]

Well sharks don't do well on land, maybe I should switch to ermor so I can survive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. That would free up Abysia so that other player that wanted them becomes happy as a clam as well.

[Meglobob]

Put me down for Mictlan.

[shard]

Where can I find the kitchen sink mod? I need to run a few test games to see what being in the water is all about...

Any recommended strategy links?

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

About that summons - does dominion over 10 improve anything? I know it works for sacreds...

[Valerius]

Thanks EH!

[Evilhomer]

The strategy index (the stickied post in the dominion main forum) is a good place to start. Fighting in water is in general about:

*Having more/better troops than the opponent
*Having most buff spells up (good low level ones are: Shark attack, friendly current, antimagic - facing Rlyeh, protection/mass protection).

[Xietor]

Kitchen sink mod does not exist-yet.

It will not do anything except increase the gem cost of clams, fever fetish, and bloodstones, plus it will also make it impossible to cast the 4 banned spells and finally it will hot fix a few bugs introduced by 3.10 patch.

I will post a link to the Kitchen Sink Mod when i get around to making it.

And the map will have a link as well when it is created. There will be input from the players as to map size and features once we know the number of total players and water races.

[DrPraetorious]

I'll take Agartha and let someone else have T'ien Ch'i since there is interest.

[Gregstrom]

I'd like to join - I haven't quite decided on a race though.

[Tichy]

Talked to Xietor and I'm in for TC. Perhaps I won't use my patented "smile a lot and don't attack anyone" strategy from the big game.

[Xietor]

If anyone has a suggestion for a map i would love to hear it.

Looks like this may be a mini "Big Game." While the obvious cap is 22, I am thinking it looks like 15-20. So maybe 300 provinces and friendly to water races?

[DrPraetorious]

I can design a map and sprinkle starts around on it.

[Baalz]

I'll play Vanheim

Edit:
Make that Machaka

[Xietor]

"I can design a map and sprinkle starts around on it."

Nominated.

Dr. P.,

I would like to make a water race friendly map. We already have 2 new players in the water, and Id like a 3rd new player to take Oceania.

Not sure whether it is better to have 1 big body of water on 1 side, with limited access to land(rectangular map), or break up the water into 2-3 lakes of 10-15 provinces each.

My initial inclination is to put the water together, except for a few small lakes if that happens), and let the water races fight it out. If they are all new, it will be a fair fight. And the winner will have a strong water position and not need to go on land until mid to late game.

By then the land races will have beaten each other up etc.

I would not mind a few sites with the "many sites" tag, as long as they are clearly marked on the map for all to see-say with stone henge symbol or something. I had 2-3 of those on the battle map in epic heroes I and that gives races an objective to fight over.

How many provinces per race is recommended? I think velusion went with 15 in perpetualtiy? That seemed like a good ratio. We can also assume we will have 20 players, with 3 water races. At max only 22 is possible. And I doubt even Ko would play Eriu-even though i beefed up their epic hero a bit. Still it seems like a shunned race.

Plus if we plan for 20 and get 22, it will not hurt the ratio too much.

Fair Warning:While I will play most any race, but when the 19th race is picked, I am going to get the 20th pick.

In particular, I do not want to be in the water with the new players(though i like Oceania), and I have never played Eriu-and have no intention to start this game. So whatever race is left after 19 have been selected that is not these 2 is what i will play.

[DrPraetorious]

All of this is entirely feasible. Let me know when we know for sure how many players we have - it can be 300 provinces regardless but I need to know how many starts to place.

I'll put the map up for people to review before we start.

[Xietor]

I just put the sign up yesterday. And it has filled up fairly fast. So I would like to leave it up for 2 more days just in case we fill completely up and get 22 players.

If someone can win this game with Eriu, then they are truly the mp champion of Dom III. And my hat will be 4ever off to them. And I really did beef up that Epic hero a good bit.

He has nobadevents100, healer 100, and a dominion summon from the Early Era.

Who can win with a Warrior Druid?

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/474cf6dfc440ac2320f182a2cb223e522g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=41hn1oz1egx&thumb=4)

[Baalz]

Aw heck, you throw down the gauntlet like that then go ahead switch me to Eriu.

[shard]

Quick question... when you say 15 provinces per player do you mean that for deciding the total number of provinces the map will have?

Or that each player starts with 15 provinces??

[Xietor]

you only start with 1 province. 15 per player just means you can get size of map. 20 x 15 = 300.

[Gregstrom]

Put me down for Oceania. As I'm a newb, it seems sensible.

[Agema]

I'll play, but give me about 12h to work out what nations are left and pick one.

[Evilhomer]

If someone can win this game with Eriu, then they are truly the mp champion of Dom III. And my hat will be 4ever off to them. And I really did beef up that Epic hero a good bit.



Whats wrong with Eriu ? The nation is not bad at all and that hero is almost average among the Epic heroes.

[Xietor]

Races-Heroes left

1.Man-Beowulf
2.Machaka-Immortal Assassin
3.Shinuyama-Ancient Master
4.Caelum-Sacred Yeti
5.Pangaea-Black Heart Treant
6.Vanheim-Mad Tinker
7.Arcos-The Grand Elephantarch

I want to start designing my pretender, so I am going to select a race tomorrow morning. So folks have 24 hours to grab one of the remaining 7 heroes. If anyone wants to change races, they can up until the time the game kicks off.

Of course you can only change your pick to one that is not taken. And atm there are only 7 open. But in all honesty, the remaining heroes/races are all good picks.

It will be a tough choice for me.

[Agema]

Oh, I'll try out Man, then.

[Xietor]

I really tried to avoid playing the same race twice, but I have a funny feeling, deep down in my bones, that just will not go away.

And it is shouting "Dark Vision is likely to be really useful this game." In any event I cannot imagine a quicker death than starting out next to EH and his double 9 blessed undead sacreds and the Angel of Death and not having Dark Vision.

And no one picked them in the 1st 17 picks-even after they won last game. To show it is no fluke......

Shinuyama.

[Xietor]

Sign ups will be closed Monday morning.

Today is the last chance to sign up.

[parcelt]

I'll play Pangea.

This is PBEM, right?

[Xietor]

yep.

Llamaserver .

BTW, if anyone else wants shinuyama before tomorrow, i will take another race. I like all the remaining races.


Any new player has the option of:

1. Arcos
2. Jotunheim
3. Vanheim
4. Machaka
5. Shinuyama(I will play one of the above if someone wants Shinuyama).

[LoloMo]

I have been having recurring nightmares about starting right next to double blessed ethereal undeads lead by auto darkness wielding fallen angel, so I would like to change my race to Caelum instead =)

I picked Jotunheim before, so that race is now open.

[Evilhomer]

Hmm, might be me you are talking about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

The game is now closed.

I have asked Llamabeast to add the Epic Heroes II game to llamaserver. When that is done, we can begin uploading pretenders.

Make sure you only have the 3 mods we will be using enabled when designing your pretender. The game will proceed with the 18 players who signed up. But you can still change races to one that is unclaimed up until the deadline for submitting your pretender.

I will likely give players 3 days to get their pretenders in after Dr. P finalizes a map and Lllamabeast gets the game added to Llamaserver.

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes II Game is now on Llamaserver and you can send in your pretender selection.

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=EpicHeroesII

There is a "how to" thread by Llamabeast on how to send in a pretender and otherwise use the Llamaserver.

There is no firm deadline yet on getting your pretender turned in due to the fact that Dr. P still needs to make the map. Once we agree on the Map, then everyone will have 48 hours to send in your pretender.

Though it likely means an early departure for me, I am going to give Vanheim a whirl. Never played them in Mp before. Since my primary goal with this game is testing the mod, it makes zero sense for me to play Shinuyama again.

So Shinuyama is open if anyone wants to make a change-and Vanheim is not.

[Hadrian_II]

Somehow the game is not able to accept my pretender.
The message from llamaserver looks like it is set up wrong as it reports the game is already full.

[Meglobob]

Hadrian_II said:
Somehow the game is not able to accept my pretender.
The message from llamaserver looks like it is set up wrong as it reports the game is already full.



Same here, getting EpicHeroesII is full.

[Xietor]

I sent Lllamabeast an Email. Hopefully he can get it going.

Edit: Lllamabeast fixed it. Server should accept Pretenders now.

[DrPraetorious]

Tada, a map.

Every start has at least five neighbors and every pair of starts is separated by at least 3 provinces (that was as spread out as I could make them.)

There was a little less ocean on this one that I was aiming for, but it was arranged in such a way that I could place three fair starts, and the ocean has good access to a fair amount of land (in the southwest corner as well as in the north-middle). The sea should be very violent early on, but the winner in the water will be in excellent shape; water players should be ready for an early game every bit as violent as the land players.

I can fudge the starts a bit with placed iron mines but I don't think it'll be needed.

[Baalz]

Much thanks Dr. P, alway a pleasure having you in a game whipping up a new map! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

I like the shape of the map a lot. Hats off to Dr. P!

Just so everyone knows, I have requested Dr. P to edit out the waste provinces. I always felt it was an unfair hindrance on Cradles of Dominion and Aran to get a starting spot near waste provinces, while other players had farms and forests.

In Epic Heroes I edited battlemap to eliminate all waste, and I felt the starting positions in that game were as equal as I could make them in terms of income/production. And we will endeavor to achieve that same result here.

[Xietor]

Dr. P is going to make all waste provinces farms. They will still look like waste on the map-but they will be coded to be farms.

The stone henge and volcano symbols are being coded" many magic sites" Meaning you likely want to risk a war to grab these if you land near one.

Pretenders are due Thursday Morning. Please get your pretenders in!

[Aapeli]

Yeah I sent the pretender but didnt get a confirmation. I at least put the e-mail adress right and the game name is on the subject. Hope im not hurrying too much but the llamaserver instructions said few minutes but no confirmation yet. Did I do something wrong?

Oh and nice map by the way Dr.P.

[Xietor]

Basically you just email your newlords folder that has the correct race pretender in it. You will get a confirmation whether it is done correctly or not if you send it to right email address.

pretenders@llamaserver.net

[parcelt]

I don't see the Kitchen Sink mod in the Preferences section? I can enable the other two but this doesn't seem to register?

[Xietor]

It is there on the 1st post of the thread.

It is basically a Dr. P creation-with my putting a name to it. Other persons of interest that I stole blatantly from are Edi and Endoperez, and possibly Velusion if he is the original scripter of the gem producing item nerf.

[parcelt]

Xietor, thanks for the reply, but what I meant was I did download it, but it doesn't show up (when I am in the game) with the other mods where you enable / disable them. Does this mod work automatically perhaps?

It was only a single .dm file that was downloaded, correct?

[Xietor]

It works for me. It is a simple DM file. No graphics.

I will try posting it a bit later. You will not need to have Kitchen Sink enabled to make a pretender. It has no effect on that at all.

[parcelt]

ok, thanks.

On a separate note, I would like to change my nation to Shinuyama (Xietor, that is if you are sure you don't want them). So Pangea is available if anybody wants it.

[Xietor]

No problem. Feel free to switch until Thursday morning.

After Thursday Morning, even if we do not start(for whatever reason), races will be locked.

Pangaea does well on maps with a ton of forests(like the one used in Epic Heroes I). Pangaea is in fact my favorite race,
but I have never played Vanheim, and they have the weakest Epic Hero, so I will stay with them. And see how I do.

But the Gorgon is sweet!

[parcelt]

Thanks. I just felt that Shinuyama's hero is so much cooler than Pangea's.

[Meglobob]

parcelt said:
I don't see the Kitchen Sink mod in the Preferences section? I can enable the other two but this doesn't seem to register?



If you put the file in your mod folder, you can select it. Its small and hard to spot, especially if you have alot of mods. It has no flashy graphic icon like epic heroes and worthy heroes to tell you its active.

[parcelt]

Strange. When I download the file, for some reason it gets saved with a .dm.txt extension.

That seemed odd so I removed the txt part - now it shows up just fine.

[Xietor]

Just so you know, Shinuyama's hero got a major boost since I played them last game:

1. MR raised to 40-simulate monk's immunity to mental attacks

2. He got a wicked new summon. The Shishi did not exist in the prior version.

3. his hps raised from 18 to 27.

Ancient Master did lose his fear though. Minor loss considering all the other perks.

A few things i have noticed that will be fixed in the next(and final version):

Vanheim's Hero will get a nobadevents tag
Jotunheim's hero will get a helmet
Pangaea will get an extra d(magic for soul vortex)
Machaka's hero will get something(when you are ignored when 18 of 22 races are picked you need something).
Elephantarch will make 2 Heart Companions rather than 2 hoplites, and his mr will be raised to that of the other heroes.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, final pass for suggestions on the map - and then I'll post the final version this evening when I get back from work.

[Xietor]

6 more pretenders need to be sent in. My deadline of tomorrow is a "soft" one. If people need more time, let me know.

I certainly want everyone happy with their set up on scales/pretender. Once the game does begin, we will be on 48 hour host. For the 1st 10 turns or so-holidays excluded-i will
be loathe to delay host.

During Thanksgiving, Xmas, and New Years, delays will be liberally granted.

But I would like to at least start the game by Sunday. So make the efort to get in your pretenders. If you are having technical issues-pm me or post.

[Xietor]

The time to switch races will close in 4 hours.

Being the fickle natured person that I am, I have decided to give the Elephants a spin. in my last 3 big MP games I played MA Pangaea, MA Shinuyama, and MA Ctis. Since it has been awhile since I played using elephants/astral magic, I will give Elephants a whirl.

I will see about getting a pretender in this evening.

[Xietor]

Ok races are locked.

I will try and coordinate everything with Lllamabeast, and hope to get the game started on Sunday. If there is a race with no pretender by Sunday, we will start with however many races have sent their pretenders in.

Good luck all!

You can resend in a new pretender to llamaserver and it will take the newest one sent. So you have until Sunday Morning(-6 GMT) to send in your pretender or change your pretender choice.

[Evilhomer]

For such an epic game like this we might want to consider using a cool map from the mod forum. Perhaps that warhammer map, modified so we get a few extra water provinces.

[Xietor]

Dr. P put in some time making the map he made. But feel free to post any 300 province map that you want to use. But we will stick with the present map unless an exceptional map is found.

And Dr. P will have to sign off on it as he has spent time making his map. There seems to be a good bit of water for 3 races to split. Though they likely will have to fight it out for sea supremacy.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm perfectly happy to use a hand drawn map if someone wants to suggest one - I should make sure that we can fit 18 start locations with sufficient arm room, though - this is a non-trivial question depending on the connectivity of the map (if too high, everyone is too close together, if too low, none of the provinces have enough neighbors to make a decent start.)

[Tichy]

I'll have my pretender in by tomorrow or saturday.

[LoloMo]

I'm in!

[Xietor]

The updated Map Files are posted at the end of the 1st post of the thread.

Only changes are all waste have been recoded to farm, and most unusual map symbols have been coded "many magic sites."

You do not need the updated map files to play in the game. But they are available for download if you want to view them.

[shard]

Would the Faerun map make a good mp map? I think that ones pretty cool too

Edit: Oh just had a look at the updated map, looks the same to me! Are the blue lines rivers? Do they actually have any tactical/strategic significance?

[Xietor]

The map "looks" the same, but it is not the same. Code has been changed. When you put your cursor over a province that has a waste symbol, you will see that now it is actually a farm province. And map with symbols, like the stone henge, volcano, etc, are coded to have "many magic sites."

So any province with something unusual on it, most likely will have more than 1 magical site. Of course they may be paths you can search, but them are the breaks.

I emailed the map to Llamabeast already. If we are going to change maps and start on Sunday as planned it would have to happen by tomorrow. I have not looked for maps. Dr. P has taken charge of that task.

[Zeldor]

I will send my pretender soon, I had really busy week.

[DrPraetorious]

I believe that the Faerun map is too large - it also has fixed sites for the MA Nations (IIRC), which are not, from a strategic standpoint, balanced.

Finally it has oodles of fixed specials although I believe there is a version without them?

We can use Faerun if there is more than one vote in favor.

The rivers (and oasis symbols) have limited strategic significance - there are a number of sites which are only found in provinces with fresh water. The vast majority are water sites. So any province that has a river or oasis in it will be much more likely to have water sites.

That's the extent of it.

The other symbols on the map have been recoded to contain *many sites* - this includes the volcanos, crystals, balancing rocks, invisible giant and oasises.

And, finally, there are a number of start locations on the map (not fixed by nation #) which you might enjoy.

[Xietor]

Game starts tomorrow.

It is likely too late to change maps at this point. Get in your pretenders.

[Tichy]

Hello all,
Not sure how to find my pretender file to email it. There's no 'lords' folder in my Dom3 package, or the other folder it installs. I'm on OSX.

Thanks

[Gregstrom]

Try newlords within the savedgames folder, perhaps?

[Zeldor]

Tichy:

/savegames/newlords ?

Xietor:

I had to finish some things with my pretender as that type is really new for me, I will have it hmm... in about 3 hours as I need to be somewhere now.

[Tichy]

Got it, thanks.

[Xietor]

Just make sure you have only 1 pretender for your race saved when you send it in.

[Xietor]

Just got word from Evilhomer that he is having computer issues and they will not be fixed for 1-2 weeks.

I will spend 1 day looking for a sub for MA Ermor. If none are found we start tomorrow(Monday) with 17 players.

Good Luck all. And no, present players cannot switch to MA Ermor. That could cause others to switch and so forth and so on.

[Evilhomer]

Sorry for the inconvenience, I was looking forward to having a darkness hero with my vestals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif. Now someone else has the chance to play

[Xietor]

well i asked llamabeast and tuidy so far-both no can do.

Anyone know anyone who wants to play ma ermor or one of the other unclaimed races let me know quickly.

[Sieger]

I agreed to take over MA Ermor.

[Xietor]

I have asked Llamabeast to start the game. When he gets the time to set it up, we will be receiving out first turn.

[Xietor]

I do not have admin. control over anything yet. But once I do I will be turning the host interval to 48 hours. Presently llamabeast gave every 3 days to do their 1st turn. But quick host is on. if you have no issues with map/mod we can try and beat that 72 hour deadline!

[Zeldor]

It will get really bloody on land from what I see. There are no natural barriers like mountain passages. As a water nation I would like to see some frequent reports on what is going on land http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[shard]

Ah this is sad... its taken so long to start I think i've forgotten my pretender password. Lets try a few more likely combinations. I think I was feeling way too clever by half that evening.

Got it! Its CASE SENSITIVE!

[Xietor]

that is the one thing i disliked about the map-no natural barriers. It is a solid map, but there really should have been no movement allowed through mountains. Dr. P is a quick expander, so I am sure the map reflects his desire for early expansion.

Turns are sent in to turns@llamaserver.net

Llamabeast has a long post on how to play games on his server in this forum if anyone is having trouble.

[Xietor]

Ok, I got admin. powers and set the host to 48 hours. There is a long delay on the 1st turn only to make sure newer players figure things out.

After turn 1 hosting will be on 48 hours. Quickhost is on, so if everyone gets in their turn, the game will still move rapidly in the early phases.

[Meglobob]

I like the map.

Good one Dr.P

[Zeldor]

Land nations have 17 provinces per nation and water ones only 13, so it may be even more bloody in depths. And probably one small lake is uninhabited, which makes about 10 provinces per nation...

[shard]

Oh dear...

[Xietor]

But the water is all in one spot. So whatever water nation conquers the other 2 will be in a very strong position.

[DrPraetorious]

That is generally the way it works, yes.

Also we're working under the assumption that the water nations cannot hold any land provinces whatsoever, which is generally untrue, although on a map this crowded it is a possibility.

[Xietor]

all game settings are default, except renaming is on, and hof is 15.

[shard]

I thought indies were supposed to be at 6? Or is it still 5?

[Xietor]

4 players only have yet to do their 1st turn.

If anyone is having issues getting the game loaded post on the thread for technical help.

[Agema]

I've got a slight problem, I installed EH 1.5 but it says I actually need 1.8, where is 1.8?

If it's the worthy heroes thing, I have the folder (with 9 tga files) in the mod section - do they need to be removed from the folder or put elsewhere?

[llamabeast]

Indies are at 5.

[parcelt]

Agema, there's a link to 1.8 in the first post.

[Xietor]

All 3 mods are linked on the 1st post of this thread.

1.8 is Worthy Heroes Mod version 1.5 is the Epic heroes Mod version.

If the error message says 1.8, you need to download worthy heroes mod.

You may have to drag the dm file out of the yellow folder for the worthy heroes mod-cannot remember. But you should have a dm file visible and a yellow file that has the 9 tga files in it visible.

[Agema]

Ta, I think when I unzipped it I must have not clicked the .dm file for extraction, so didn't have it and thought it was just the .tga files.

[Xietor]

the long delay given to do the 1st turn is for this purpose. It can be tough to get everything just right. once you get that 1st turn done the rest is easy.

Good Luck Beowulf!

[Hadrian_II]

Doh, the game just decided to throw my order scales out of the window. I hate the scalebug, hope it regenerates fast.

[Zeldor]

Nothing beats a nasty random event at first turn at capitol...

[Xietor]

My advice to all who encounter MA Arcos.

"Do not tug on Superman's Cape, do not spit in the wind, do not tug on the mask of the Ole Lone Ranger, and do not mess around with him."

[Xietor]

I got the scale bug as well. my 2 negative scales are there, but no order or growth. wtf is up with that?

And I almost died a dominion death on turn 1. A whooping 1 dominion in my capital.

Must be nice to be Marignon, Ctis or Tien Chi. All of their Heroes spread their dominion greatly.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

I am sure you really wouldn't exchange it for what happened to me. It will take some time to get back to what I had on turn 1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Xietor]

well, if i lose my candle of dominion, it really will not matter.

[Tichy]

I'd just like to thank R'lyeh for jumping out of the gate in character. Ftagntastic.

[shard]

I had the scales bug one of my other games... I decided to pretend it was the plague.
Though whats happening with all the 'luck' scales everyone is supposed to be getting? :p

Actually, I've had one annoying problem though - I can't seem to play the turn on one of my computers in the office, it keeps asking for the kitchen sink mod which I have already installed. Works fine at home though.

[Sir_Dr_D]

I had a problem with the kitchen sink mod at first as well. It was looking for a name with a space 'kitchen sink' while in the file that I had it was an underscore, 'kitchen_sink'.

[Xietor]

I do not think i zipped Kitchen Sink mod since it was so small. So maybe if people are treating it as a zipped file
that causes an issue? dunno.

[Aapeli]

I wont be able to play my turn in time. I will do it saturday or sunday if you could give me some time. My apologies for our computer screen broke and I cant recieve any e-mails (Im at my bros computer at the moment).

[Xietor]

I am not going to be able to extend the early turns beyond the 48 hours they presently are at(: If possible, can you get a sub to do a turn or 2 for you until your computer is fixed
or add the game to your brother's computer?

I am not trying to be difficult, but usually in mp games the host is on 24 hours for the first several turns, and we are already on a pretty undemanding host schedule with 48 hours to do a 5 minute turn.

When the holidays arrive, I will delay the game if anyone needs it. But as stated in a previous post, i do not want to delay hosting otherwise for the 1st 10-12 turns so we can get the game progressing.

I will see if llamabeast can do your turn for you since it would take a max of 5 minutes.

[Aapeli]

That would be great. As far as I know I think I can continue at the week end. A stale turn wouldnt hurt that much since its the second turn but if llamabeast wants it would be very nice from him to make the turn (but its ok if he doesnt want to or hasnt got time).

[Zeldor]

I really wish we had 24 hour turns now...

[Xietor]

i advertised a slower pace of 48, so i can't change that now. quick host is on though, and a faster pace is easy to get if everyone does their turns.

[Hadrian_II]

If there are 20 people, someone will always stall.

[Xietor]

well,

I found someone to do your turn, but you had a password, so i could not change the email address. There is no reason, btw, to have a pw on games hosted by the llamaserver.

If your have a pw you are on your own finding a sub(as you are actually in any event). But I tried, and was thwarted by the pw). Evilhomer was going to do your turn for you btw. email him your pw if you need him to do turn 3 for you.

[Xietor]

Scale bug has hurt my start a good bit(:

[llamabeast]

I just sent in a turn for Ulm. Sorry for the delay.

[Xietor]

thanks llamabeast! You are the best.

It is the player's responsibility to find subs btw. I do not mind trying if i have the time, and i usually do, but that may not always be the case. Especially when the game gets midgame and turns are harder to do. Subs become harder to find.


*it may be that Ulm did not set up a password. my inability to get the turn sent off to EH looks to be human error on my part(:

[Zeldor]

R'lyeh is really doomed in that game. I don't remember having that many nasty things in so short time...

[Xietor]

did you take misfortune?

[Xietor]

I hope my neighbors are peaceful. The sages of arcos. like study and scholastic pursuits.

[Aapeli]

Well I did have a password. Didnt realize I dont need it. I should be able to do turn 3 but it seems that someone already did it for me. Its ok but I will be wanting to do the next turn myself. I should get access to my computer on sunday but if not I shall inform you and anyone willing to sub me will get the password.

[llamabeast]

Aapeli - yep, sorry, I failed to take the last turn in time, so took turn 3 instead. But you can still take it yourself - it will just overwrite my efforts.

Normally you should always have a password for an MP game. But with PBEM no-one else has access to your trn files anyway (well, except me), so the password is superfluous. Does no harm though (the earlier issue was a misunderstanding).

[Sir_Dr_D]

An excerpt form Marignon

<i>Missionary Pete: “ Greetings loyal followers. Today I will fill you in on great news. This time of darkness will soon be over.”

Peasant Bob: “But how is that possible? With the Great Supreme God gone, all is lost. “

Missionary Pete: “ Our own divine being, the great Taurvati (let him fill us with power) has a plan. He will restore order to this land of chaos. You saw the Tithe Collector set out last month with a great force. That is the first part of the plan. You see the plan is this..."“

Peasant Bob: “ Wow, Taurvati (let him fill us with power) is full of widsom. With that plan the world will be saved for sure. But there is one thing that I don't understand Missionary Pete. With the great words that we bring, and a message of peace, why do we need weapons?”

Missionary Pete: “ Peasant Bob you are yet young and there is much you don't understand about the world. There are people out there who have not yet been blessed with the great message of Taurvati, and do evil things. They use forbidden magic, have funky hairDo's, are quick to anger, engage in forbidden dances, associate with bog beasts, drink Ulmish wine, and lets not forget what happened with Ermor.”

A big hush flows through the crowd.

Missionary Pete: “ There is even people out there who want to have fun.”

Peasant Bob: “Thats horrible. The world would be struck with great disorder.”

Missionary Pete: “ But with the great Taurvati's plan all will be saved. Peasant Bob have you finished your purification? “

Peasant Bob: “I have now fully given myself to the great Taurvati. All my possesions have been given to the Tithe Collector as is my duty, and to prevent myself from running way from trouble, like I shamefully have in the past, I have injured my knee. “

Missionary Pete: “ Injuring yourself was supposed to be a metaphor, but Taurvati is well pleased. You shall now be known as Flagellant Bob. (May Taurvati guide you in combat)”

Flagellant Bob: “ From this moment on I pledge to fight any of Taurvati's enemies. “

Missionary Pete: “ Now here is your first assignment. You shall join the Tithe collector and...”
[/i]

[Xietor]

Great story!

And I do mean it.

Now do your turn Sir D. You are the only hold out.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Thanks Xietor. Role playing Marignon is fun.

I got my turn in now, as well as the next one.

[Xietor]

I actually like the theme of the Tithe Collector. Very Wicked-all in the name of righteousness.

[LoloMo]

Oops, sorry, I posted on the wrong thread, hahaha, carry on, nothing to see here =)

[Xietor]

??

LA Ermor? This game is all MA races.

[Sir_Dr_D]

LoloMo. You posted in the wrong thread.

[Zeldor]

I think I will go AI, I had extremely bad luck and it seems that I have no chance to get back from it.

[Xietor]

Did you take misfortune Zedor? How much?

I actually own the fewest provinces. I took strong scales and had the scale bug(: That is equivalent to have a bad event every turn of the game so far. Also all 3 of the water races are new players-so you may have time to overcome a slow start.

I am praying that I do(:

Few things are so dire that you need to go ai on turn 5. Try to stick it out if you can for a few turns and see if things get better. Of course if you took strong misfortune-things likely will not get better.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Yes Zeldor, please do not go AI.

[Agema]

I only just checked - my capital has no scale bonuses either, and that's prety painful.

[Baalz]

Heck, I just came in to commiserate that I just lost my epic hero to a really bad luck roll against some knights. Good to know others are sucking it up to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

I think we should congratulate Atlantis, it is probably them that killed Oceania. Fast.

Xietor:

I have read some manuals for R'lyeh and other nations too. Advice was to take Order 3 and some misfortune. I have tried some misfortune in other MP games [blitz ones] after that and I see that it is the worst choice you can do. Order 3 cannot even negate misfortune 1 effects. In 2 other games I lost lab in first turn and got 4 barbarians hordes in 2 turns.

And here I added my mistake caused by lack of knowledge on water nations and indies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I will see what I can do, but Atlantis seems to be really strong. And I am weaker than on turn 1.

[LoloMo]

My experience has been that misfortune amplifies negative scales. So I would connect lost lab with misfortune + sloth, barbarian attacks with misfortune + turmoil. There are corresponding bad events for misfortune + death/cold. Not sure if there is for heat and drain.

But if you survive to mid game, the misfortune events are not as big a factor as they are capped at max of 4 per turn.

[Xietor]

I have taken bad scales-2 drain, 3 heat, 3 sloth. I refuse to take even 1 misfortune. With the scale bug you may end up with no order and misfortune. Very deadly in the early game.

Oceania is the 1st casualty of Epic Heroes II. He died a dominion death on turn 6. Atlantis is the suspect in converting the Oceanians to his faith.

Looks like the water is a 2 horse race now. But beware of Agartha, Shinuyama, or MA Ermor if they border the water!
All 3 of those nations can get into the water fairly easily.

Elephants cannot swim, so the water races are free from me!

And hang in there zeldor. With only 2 races in the water, you have a good chance. The Ryleh Epic Hero is quite brutal
when used correctly. Especially good at siege busting.

[Meglobob]

Xietor said:Elephants cannot swim, so the water races are free from me!



Get a sea kings goblet and take your elephants underwater, they are awesome! I crushed a entire Argathian army once.


Zeldor said:Order 3 cannot even negate misfortune 1 effects. In 2 other games I lost lab in first turn and got 4 barbarians hordes in 2 turns



Order 3, misfortune 3 are a good combo, I have had it loads of times and always done very well. Your just really, really unlucky Zeldor!

Don't ever go to Las Vegas... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[shard]

Panjang burps. But Panjang still hungry. Panjang MUST FEED!

[shard]

How does dominion killing actually work? I didn't expect it to be so effective so fast - I'm sure Oceania still had 3 provinces with candles at the end of the last turn.

Oh, and a couple of other questions just popped into my mind just then:

1 - When you use items or a special leader to bring land units underwater, do they fight with penalties? i.e. Poor Amphibious? Also, are archers and other ranged units useless underwater?

2 - Units that can regenerate have a lesser chance of receiving battlefield afflictions... but can they also heal afflictions that they have received? Is it similar to recuperation in that respect?

For the record... I had a bunch of independant tritons attack my capital, but i was fortunate enough that my pd killed them off!

[Xietor]

Land units underwater fight at a penalty.

Regeneration does not heal affliction, recuperation does.
It does reduce your chances of getting afflictions.

It is typically a good thing to take high dominion as a water race. You likely had a very high dominion, 9 or 10. Oceania must have had a fairly low dominion 5 or so?

I think units that change shape have a chance of removing afflictions, but I am not certain of the percentage chance they have. Jaguar Warriors for example.

[Sir_Dr_D]

All of Marignon takes a momment of silence. They pray for the recently departed Mister Clacky, and that he will find redemption within the great void.

[Gregstrom]

Dammit - domain kill. How embarrasing.

Suffice it to say that I didn't have nearly the domain strength that Panjang did, and hadn't hired any Bishop Fish to help out. Both were mistakes I paid for.

Is the Atlantis hero supposed to have any strengths beyond being a competent mage?

[Xietor]

Atlantis Hero has a good summon. The Silver Orang. He also has a Death Touch attack. Similar to life for a life-but can
only be used once per battle.

He also produces 2d gems a turn. Skellies come to him in good numbers.

[Gregstrom]

Sorry, I meant Oceania. I keep doing that... :-(

[Xietor]

Oceania has a 60 hp mr 22 Basalt king with good magic paths
and a forge ability. Sort of a warrior mage. My thoughts were he should be made a prophet and with a n4 bless could likely take provinces solo right off the bat.

He has no secret abilities or summons, however. Just a very tough hero out of the box. more so if he is made a prophet.

[Gregstrom]

I liked the paths, but never tried prophetising him. Trrying him as a SC without the prophet bless just got him dead, unlike the land SC heroes, so I didn't rate him for that.

[Xietor]

In my test, making him a prophet with a n4 bless, made him fairly powerful if you attacked in provinces having your dominion.

Few land heroes are tougher. Arcos Epic Hero, who I am playing, would never be sent solo into a province whether a prophet or not. Nor would vanheims.

Not all Epic Heroes are meant to be thugs. Though Beowulf, the Ancient Master, and a few others are clearly that. Edi designed the Oceania Epic Hero. And he is fairly tough.

Ryleh's Epic Hero is tough also, but I likely would not attemt to take a sea province solo with him. And Atlantis' hero is clearly not designed to be a thug.

So of the 3 water races, Oceania's Epic Hero is best designed to be a thug, but id say he needs the prophet bless and n4 to safely take provinces. One should never take a province blind on the 1st turn.

I know Dr. P and others risk it, but it is a risk. Knights can kill most of the Epic heroes if they get their charge attacks to land. And the air mage pd will kill any Epic Hero
that does not have lightning protection-and few do.

[Hadrian_II]

The monkey king is quite strong, too bad i did not get a heroic ability that gives hitpoints :/

[Gregstrom]

I guess what struck me with oceania was that there wasn't a clear path for me (a newb) to take with the hero. No summons or domsummons, not an obvious SC like Shinuyama or Man, so I just used him for a head start with research.

[Xietor]

using him to site search is not a bad option. oceania has tough castle bought troops for early expansion. A small bless and your capital sacred units are pretty tough as well.

The dominion kill happened to Ctis in epic heroes I. Ctis was also played by a new player. It is hard for new players to compete in mp games that have many experienced players in it regardless of race/hero.

But thank you for trying. Hopefully you learned a little bit. And I am sorry the game was not longer for you. And above all-I hope it was fun despite the early exit.

[Sir_Dr_D]

The early expansion in this game has been very aggression. I guess everyone is taking a gamble with their epics, instead of playing it safe. And Dr P taking his hero out blind the very first turn, was a big gamble.

[Baalz]

Yeah, in the test game I ran I couldn't find an indie to scratch my guy, then 4 turns into the real game he takes a lance to the forehead. :/

[Xietor]

Is the Ancient Master dead, or was that an awake Wyrm? Killing off the Ancient Master is not an easy thing to do.

Well, Dr. P killed him off last game with frozen heart, but surely the good Dr. does not have that researched quite yet.

[Meglobob]

The Ancient Master fell in single (almost) combat with the Blood Cursed champion!

Long live Mictlan!

[Xietor]

Wow! Turn 7 and 3 of the 18 Epic Heroes are dead-that we know of.

The Blood-Cursed Champion and the Angel of Death are both just sickly powerful. Though I think the Ancient Master is certainly capable of killing the Blood-Cursed Champion. The Quivering Palm can bring down anything if it lands-unless he had lightning protection. It is a shock attack.

Dr. P can correct me, but I think he lost the Blood-Cursed Champion in a single combat to an Atlantis Worthy Hero last game. One more reason to never take misf, as that reduces your chance of getting another thug. Some of the Worthy Heroes are quite "Epic."

All of the Epic Heroes are designed to be valuable, though not all of them are designed to take provinces early.

[DrPraetorious]

Yeah, that's correct.

I lost him vs. the escaped traitor prince, in personal combat, I believe, who had been tricked out quite fierce. The traitor prince was then brought down by a host of the surrounding jaguar warriors.

[Xietor]

Actually, the more I think about it, unless the Blood-Cursed Champion had a fire bless up, I think the Ancient Master would defeat him 1 v 1. Blood-Cursed Champion has 3 poison based attacks and the Ancient Master is immune to poison-but not fire.

I do think it is a mistake to make most Epic Heroes a Prophet though, as that is one of the reasons Dr. P lost his Blood-Cursed Champion in EH1. If memory serves, Dr. P lamented that the fight with the Traitor Prince took place in enemy dominion.

Maybe Shinuyama can post a screenshot of the battle? I doubt Mictlan will willingly divulge his bless, though an s9 f9 are almost certainly his bless, with maybe a n4 or b4 thrown in.

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
I do think it is a mistake to make most Epic Heroes a Prophet though, as that is one of the reasons Dr. P lost his Blood-Cursed Champion in EH1. If memory serves, Dr. P lamented that the fight with the Traitor Prince took place in enemy dominion.



I prophetized the monkey king, as in the testgames he went from immortal but dies always to immortal and wins always, and as he does not have hp anyway it is not really important as he will be killed after the first hit.

[Xietor]

yeah. but take the monkey king into enemy dominion and he is toast as a prophet with low hps.

I do see a strong case for making the immortal assassin and the monkey king prophets. They are both immortal and really should not be risked outside of friendly dominion anyway.

Actually a screenshot of the fight would not show the bless of the units.

[Sieger]

I can't get the Llamaserver to accept my turn file, Llamabeast has made a post saying the server is having troubles, can we get the hosting delayed until everyone's turns can get accepted?

[Xietor]

llamabeast said he is going to delay the hosting of all games by 24 hours. So I will leave it in his capable hands.

[Zeldor]

Great, I had the same problem.

[Xietor]

I went ahead and postponed the hosting by 24 hours. If LLama does an additional 24, i will remove it.

[Xietor]

Llamaserver took my revised turn, so it is working now. I will shorten the timer and turn force host back on.

[Zeldor]

Great. But it seems to not display turn time correctly...

[Xietor]

The Peaceful Sages of Arcos. have met our first neighbor. As a civilized race, we hope to have full diplomatic ties, trade between nations, and treaties that mutually benefit our respective people.

Naturally, however, good neighbors do not lay claim to provinces that border a neighbor's Capital. Though peaceful in nature, Elephants can become quite agitated if they are denied ample room to graze.

[Zeldor]

Ermor had a lot of luck with starting location.

[Xietor]

My preference is to not run into Ermor or Mictlan early on, but qui vivra verra.

Astrologers and Priestesses keep the peace in Arcos. with the use of Elephants! Those who break the law are crushed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crushing_by_elephant

[Zeldor]

I have some astral gems for sale.

[LoloMo]

IndyPendant may have found the source of the missing scales bug. It seems to be connected with assigning poptypes to the starting province. Perhaps the map can be revised even while in mid game and fix the problem?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=567284&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[Xietor]

Naturally it is Dr. P's fault!

[Xietor]

According to the score graphs, the Agartha Epic Hero becomes the 4th known dead Epic Hero. Of the original 18, only 14 still walk the land. And it is only turn 9!

A word to Mictlan and Ermor, do not tempt fate. Rapid expansion on crowded maps equals dead Epic Heroes.

The Agartha Epic Hero was quite a thug. I made a test game-and he appeared overpowered. I suspect he was killed by battle magic.

[LoloMo]

In my test games, it appears that you can wish for an epic hero, and probably end up with multiple copies. Do we wish to allow this or not? We might want to make a ruling on this while it's still early, as some of the Epic Heroes make for better wish targets than a Seraph.

[LoloMo]

Also, it appears that I have a bug attached to the winter wolves summoned by my Yeti Epic Hero.

Twice now, the battle message did not coincide with the battle replay. In the first instance, my last remaining winter wolf was killed in the battle replay, but survived the message and in the strategic screen. The second time just this turn, my 3 winter wolves survived in the battle replay, but died in the battle report.

In the battle replay, they were left with 1, 2, and 4 hps. The only thing I can think of if this is not a bug, is that they have the ability "strength of winter". Is the hit point gain only a temporary effect during battle only?

[Aapeli]

Seem like suddenly the nation of Ulm has three Caelian provinces next to them. It just happens that I forgot to buy a scout and tought all was well but no mammoths are pouring to my lands. How toughtless of me.

[DrPraetorious]

He was killed by Orb Lightning from a group of indie wind masters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Quite anti-climactic.

I wonder if I can mummiffy him.

[Xietor]

I am aware that you can wish for Epic Heroes. And given that you can wish for Seraphs, I am not sure any Epic Hero is tougher than a Seraph. In fact I am fairly certain none is better.

100 s gems is a high price for an Epic Hero.
The Kitchen Sink Mod raises the price of clamming, so there should be fewer surplus gems floating around this game.

As to the "replay" bug, I think Edi may be the one to ask. There is nothing unique about the Winter Wolves the Yeti summons. They are exactly the same as the ones you summon.

Replay bugs occurred in Epic Heroes 1 and in Alapca(Alpaca was a vanilla game except worthy heroes). In Alpaca it was a major battle between Llamabeast and Jay Thomas. Though i think it was a mistake, Llamabeast replayed the turn so that the battle occurred again, but that changed the result of battles for many other races that had no bugs.

Llamabeast had a theory that the server was using a different version of worthy heroes than 1 of the players. We should all be using Worthy Heroes 1.8. I will double check with Llamabeast to make sure the server is also using 1.8.

And when I inquired about it after EHI game, many posters said the replay bug occurs randomly-and has been a bug since domI.

I have cautioned players until I am blue in the face that solo Epic Heroes can be killed by indies. But many insist on rolling the dice. The dice are weighted in your favor-but they can all die to indies. The lightning mage indies can kill any epic hero-and fairly easily i might add.

[Agema]

Yeah, I test played SP quickly and found that Beowulf normally cuts through your average indies but can come majorly unstuck against tramplers.

[Baalz]

The Eriu hero I ran 3 different test SP games and couldn't find an indie that fazed him. Turn 6 in the MP game though he took a lance to the face. *sigh* open ended die rolls....

[Hadrian_II]

Immortal epic heroes are the way to go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

especially the ones that are resistant to everything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Xietor]

In my tests of Cathbad(eriu Hero), he only has 15 hps, though he is coded to have 18. Anyone have any thoughts as to the discrepancy?

Foodstamp created Cathbad, though i beefed him up a great deal with serpent, snake hair, armor, good fortune, and many other perks.

Cathbad is tough, but I would not try him against units with a charge bonus.

Arcos EH is decent, but there is no way i ever use him solo. He is a general of great ability-and that is wasted if he does not lead armies. But he is not designed to be a thug.

[Xietor]

"Immortal epic heroes are the way to go.

especially the ones that are resistant to everything."

True, but in some instances, immortals are always immortal. Especially if you use them in a province with only 1 candle of dominion!

[Xietor]

Turn 10

What wars are going on?

Obviously Mictlan and Shinuyama.

Keep the world informed!

[DrPraetorious]

I'll have my first contingent of golems teleporting into Arcoscephale's capital the turn-after-next.

[Xietor]

I knew I should have played Ermor!

[shard]

I think theres one between Ulm and Caelum?

As for the seas, well, all sorts of dangers lurk in the depths. Who knows what one might come across?

[Aapeli]

Well yes Ulm (me) and Caelum do have a battle. Also I have seen the dreaded Angel of Ermor on the other border.

[Xietor]

"Also I have seen the dreaded Angel of Ermor on the other border."

How does that song go? "Give Peace a Chance."

Double and triple 9 blessed sacreds early in the game before potent battlefield magic is in play is brutal.

Tramplers are also brutal. Sounds like another song. "Double Trouble."

Where exactly are Ermor and Caelum? They are both on my Christmas Card list, but I am not sure I have the correct address?

[Zeldor]

Well, I can send some greetings to Ermor. Or give address to anyone interested http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[LoloMo]

Yup, the wooly mammoths of Caelum have discovered the delicious dark chocolate treats of Ulm: crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside! =)

And we have also been keeping track of the Ermorian movements.

[Xietor]

I predict a war over Ulm's capital. If Ulm is lucky-they fight among themselves before he dies.

They are all in the deep south-no threat to us civilized races.

[Agema]

I'm away from home at the moment and borrowing a Mac for my turn - I'm having some technical difficulties, so I might not be able to get the it done in time, but we'll see.

[Xietor]

In the vanilla game, Ulm would be toast against a trampling nation. How are those Black Order Soldiers holding up? They hit hard.

[LoloMo]

Ouch! Ouch! That Black Duke of Ulm and his cohorts are tough! But double dutch chocolate ice cream was promised to our wooly mammoths and nothing gets in the way of their ice cream! After the hapless Black Duke was exhausted from casting one too many fireballs, he was trampled and plowed into the snow by our sweet toothed mammoths. Sporting gaping holes in their chests and limping from various wounds, our lovable huggable mammoths were still able to enjoy their special treat.

[Xietor]

Another Epic Hero dead? wow.

[Aapeli]

As the duke and his cohort moved forward in to the walley, the duke felt chill on his back. The sacred jeti had come in sight, but not only him but also 20 oversized mammoths with pretty fat looking ankles! Suddenly he realized how the jeti had lured him into a trap! Rage rose inside him and totally disregarding of his on safety he started to throw fire and shadow and curses but it didnt help. He saw how the ranks of the black order splintered and in the end there was only him, separeted from the farstrikers, alone in the middle of the mammoths.

And I still have to figure out a way to banish 30 mammoths out from my capital! Never tought lolomo had mustered that big gang of mammoths /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif.

[Meglobob]

Aapeli said:And I still have to figure out a way to banish 30 mammoths out from my capital!



Mice, they cant stand them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Preferably giant mice.

The Blood Cursed Champion is alive and well, although he did have a recent month of dodging lightning bolts, which was unpleasent.

[Xietor]

The Peaceful Astrologers of Arcoscephale have divined the following using their mystical arts:

1. The stars alignment show that a new year has begun. For lack of a better name, we have named it Year 2 in the Ascension War. Of the original 18 Pretenders, 17 remain.

2. The blessed nations have all blasted off to strong starts, and the targets of the blessed nations have not fared well, with Ulm and Shin. losing their Epic Heroes.

3. Some nations in the race to expand rapidly, also lost their Epic Heroes. Agartha and Eriu. The Stars do not tell the fortune of these races. Time will tell, however.


4. Divination has revealed the following wars:

Agartha v Pythium
Shinuyama v Mictlan
Ulm v Caelum
Atlantis v Ryleh

8 nations at war, but 9 are at peace.

[Zeldor]

I wouldn't be so sure about that 17 pretenders left...

[Hadrian_II]

Zeldor said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that 17 pretenders left...



They might be temporary death, but not permanently vanquished.

[Xietor]

Arcoscephale is buying/trading for a dwarven hammer and an eye shield. Both are constr 2 items. Arcos. has constr 2 items/gems/gold for trade.

[shard]

I wish I had mindless morale 50 pd. Amazing defensive chaff!

PS - I'm in the middle of my trip so sorry for the late or somewhat incoherent replies to diplomatic missives. Normal service should be resumed in a week's time.

[Xietor]

To alleviate boredom, the message of the day has been changed on the Llamaserver for the Epic Heroes II game. The message was copied from the Epic Heroes I game, and is applicable in every mp game.

Another mighty Epic Hero has fallen. This time the Ancient Ophidian of Ctis. That makes the total known dead Epic Heroes:

1. Basalt King-Oceania
2. Black Duke -Ulm
3. Cathbad-Eriu
4. The Obsidian Medium-Agartha
5. Ancient Master-Shinuyama
6. Ancient Ophidian-Ctis

[Xietor]

Strange, I had a stale turn, but i received an acknowledgment from llamaserver that my 2h file had been received.

[Meglobob]

It says turn 13 as well not turn 17.

I think llamaserver has gone nuts again!

[Tichy]

What does this mean for us? I haven't send in my turn 16 yet. Should I, or should I wait for this to be sorted out first?

Is this a sort-outable problem?

[Janlm]

resend your latest turn it says..

[Xietor]

Everyone needs to resend the turn they sent last turn. The game is on turn 16. So you need to resend turn 16(same turn you just did) into llamaserver.

Llamabeast provides an excellent service to Dominions III. It has an occasional hiccup, but it is free and how can you beat
something as great as the Llamaserver for free?

The timer has been reset to 48 hours-but since it is the exact same turn, hopefully folks can get them sent in sooner. But if not, you still have the full 48 hours to get the turn back in.

Good Luck All.

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
The timer has been reset to 48 hours-but since it is the exact same turn, hopefully folks can get them sent in sooner. But if not, you still have the full 48 hours to get the turn back in.




This would violate the golden rule of big games:

"Someone will always stale"

So it is not likely to happen.

[Hadrian_II]

Is there some problem with the game, or is just the status page broken?

[Xietor]

I sent Llamabeast an email telling him the status page shows the game on turn 45.

Maybe everyone got set to ai during the turmoil, and we will have a true winner by tomorrow! Go Arcoscephale!

[Xietor]

Everyone must send in their turn again.

Llamabeast had issues that are now fixed with the game. Unfortunately, everyone must yet again send in that same turn.

Sorry for the inconvenience. But I still think the Llamaserver is the top choice for hosting dominions games. Velusion has ahiccups with his server a swell. Just the nature of the beast i am afraid.

[Zeldor]

I did it again but it seems that R'lyeh got deleted from the game?