RAND Game - Fomoria Wins!

[PashaDawg]

Greetings:

This is a RAND game. "RAND" stands for random nations, anonymous, no-diplomacy. In other words, nations have been randomly assigned to players who are bound by the game rules to keep their identity secret from all other parties, except the host (me). No diplomacy is allowed. Player ID's will be revealed as they are defeated. This is a fun twist on the usual game, and it was popular in the Dom2 days.

This is a PBEM game (that is, Play By Email).


The Settings:

Map: Orania
Victory Condition: Victory Points. One point in each player capital. Must have 9 (50%) to win.
Era: Early
Conceptual Balance Mod 1.1 (Pretenders & Scales portions only)
Worthy Heroes Mod 1.8
Indies 7
Site Frequency 50
Money 100
Resources/Supplies 100
Random events common
Score Graphs on
Hall of Fame 15
Standard Research
Renaming Off

Hosting schedule: Daily turns through Turn 15, and then switch to a Sunday / Tuesday / Thursday schedule. Deadlines will generally be at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Here is a link re Boston Time for your convenience. Boston Time (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=43)


List of Players:

1. Jurri - Ulm
2. CUnknown - Arco
3. Alneyan - Maverni (Dead turn 15)
4. Meglobob - Replaced by Shmonk, turn 45 - Sauro
5. Wraithlord - Tien Chi
6. Ygorl - Mictlan (Dead turn 28)
7. Quantum Mechani- Abysia
8. Cainehill - Caelum (Dead turn 47)
9. DonCorazon - C'Tis (Dead turn 42)
10. Shmonk - Pangaea (Dead turn 19)
11. HJFudge - Agartha (Gone AI turn 30)
12. Agrajag - Tir na n'Og (Dead turn 29)
13. Micah - Fomoria (Winner)
14. Sir_Dr_D - Vanheim (Gone AI turn 39)
15. Zeldor - Atlantis (revealed turn 8 / went AI)
16. Calmon - Oceania
17. Zaramis - Lanka (went AI approx. turn 10)
18. Amhazair - Yomi

/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif Start Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2007, 9:00 pm Boston Time.

Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[lch]

PashaDawg said:
In other words, nations will be randomly assigned to players who will be bound by the game rules to keep their identity secret from all other parties, except the host (me).


I really, really, really like this idea.

[DonCorazon]

Count me in!

[PashaDawg]

Welcome DonCorazon!

[reinselc]

Question for you....do we get to find out what nation we have before or after we submit our pretender?

[PashaDawg]

Hi reinselc:

I will assign nations randomly by rolling some dice or something. I will then send you an email with your nation assignment.

Pasha

[reinselc]

Actually I just realized that is a stupid question.

[PashaDawg]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

So, what are the rules regarding 'no diplomacy' exactly? You cannot communicate with the other players in any way? Can you send in-game messages regarding trades for items, or something like that? Or does 'no diplomacy' mean absolutely no contact with the other players?

[Shmonk]

Count me in, it's been a while since I've played and I've been waiting for a new game to start that interests me. And this game the last time I was in it was pretty fun.

[HJFudge]

I'll play!

[Jurri]

PashaDawg said:
Conceptual Balance Mod (probably, unless players prefer Vanilla)
Worthy Heroes Mod (Unless players want to play Vanilla)

I'd prefer vanilla. (Well, Worthy Heroes I could never oppose.) You sure have become mod-happy of late. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Renaming allowed

I'm against this as well: the way people rename their dudes can reveal who they are. You could also send messages via commander names http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif 'Peace, please! the Scout'

Any Age is fine by me (although in Late I would prefer excluding Ermor and R'lyeh from the draft, as I'm not exactly impressed with how they are in Dom3), for a map I prefer wraparound, like Orania if we get a lot of players. (You might need to limit the number of water nations with Orania, though.)

For victory condition, I propose having a VP in every capital and requiring a player to hold half of them. (Incidentally, a very popular format back in Dom2.) This is a bit harder than what Pasha usually uses, but no diplomacy warrants it, I think: without coordination it is not as easy to contain a run-away player as it is with it.

CU: No diplomacy of any kind. No sending items or messages in-game or out. No cryptic messages on the forum either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif An efficient way to think of it is like a game against AIs that happen to be as good as humans.

Incidentally, no-diplomacy means that the turns will be very fast to play, which is something I very much like about the game-type. (Also nice is that Alneyan can't gun straight for me since he won't know who I am http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

Oh, a point of anonymity: name your pretender after your nation! That is, if you play Abysia, name your pretender Abysia. This way there's no chance of anyone figuring out who's who from pretender names.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm very excited about the game! Thanks Pasha for hosting it!

[Alneyan]

Phew, I'm so glad you're running this game by the way Pasha; saves me the trouble of running my own *and* I can more easily join in.

I like Jurri's suggestion as far as VPs go, but I'd like to keep renaming in as I'm not sure anonymity is worth the trouble. (Yeah, playing MA T'ien Ch'i without renaming is fun (where the hell is my Fire 3 mage again?)).

[PashaDawg]

CUnknown said:
So, what are the rules regarding 'no diplomacy' exactly? You cannot communicate with the other players in any way? Can you send in-game messages regarding trades for items, or something like that? Or does 'no diplomacy' mean absolutely no contact with the other players?



Hi CUnknown:

Yeah. No diplomacy means no contact at all, including no in-game messages or trading of gems, etc. You can post on the thread, but not in a way that would directly or indirectly identify which nation you're playing.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

I will wait for the players to discuss and debate the settings of the game. I will make the final call as the host but will try to honor the wishes of the majority of players. (Hmm... where did I leave that Great Orb of Power? Geez, I hope I did not let it go through the laundry again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif )

[Agrajag]

I'd like to play, if you'll have me.
However (and this is why the "if you'll have me part"), there is a chance that later in the game I will have less free time, and might have some trouble meeting deadlines. (If that "chance" will come true, than I'll probably be consistently almost late / actually late for the Tuesday schedule.)
Its not a certainty that it will happen, and its not a certainty that it will give me problems with the turns (and I'll definitely try my best), but I'd rather be honest and denied a place in the game rather than a liar that might later ruin the game for other people. (If I survive that long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

Other than that, these settings are almost exactly what I'd look for in a game, and I'd really love to play.

So just tell me if you'll have me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EDIT: After reviewing some things, it turns out that if the unlikely event will happen, I would still most likely be able to make the turn, with a small amount of juggling some stuff. And also asking some people reveals that the unlikely event really seems to be very unlikely. (Though my personal preference would be a SUN/WED/FRI or a MON/WED/FRI or SAT/TUE/THU schedule which I am guaranteed to be able to handle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Now I feel like an idiot for even bringing it up with such a long and detailed post when it slowly seems like less of a problem. :S

[Meglobob]

I would like worthy heroes mod only.

Conceptual Balance gives me a headache, I am so used to vanilla.

Perhaps allow renaming but no using it to identify yourself or twist the no diplomacy rule.

Everything else sounds real good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Folket]

No diplomacy is interesting. But I'm uncertain if I have time. I will have to think about it.

[Micah]

I heard a recommendation to join one of your games Pasha, so /signup.

[Evilhomer]

This game really is interesting, though it seems I won't have time unless it will take a few weeks to get started I'm afraid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ygorl]

I've got a slight preference for no CB and no renaming - even if you're not explicitly trying to send messages to other people, different players have different techniques for renaming, which can give people away. Just hit F1 and search for the dude with three levels in fire magic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And, just to reiterate in case someone happens to read this post but not Jurri's... Name your pretender after your nation! The pretender of Pythium should be named Pythium. I guess an alternative would be to use the game's random name creator, which wouldn't give any information either - Pasha, we need an executive decision here.

[PashaDawg]

Yes, I agree.

1. Renaming will be shut off.

2. Pretender names should be the same as the nation name (for example, Pythium's pretender should be named "Pythium).

As Jurri said, this game will very much be like playing a SP game, but with AI's as smart as people.

[PashaDawg]

Welcome, Agrajag and Micah. It would be great if Evilhomer and Folket could join in.

[quantum_mechani]

For mods, I'm ok with skipping most the CB mod, however at least Worthy Heroes and CB Pretenders and Scales seem fairly straightforward even for people not used to them.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Sure, count me in as well.

[Ygorl]

I agree with QM about mods.

[Agrajag]

Yeah, I've mostly played vanilla, so I'd rather play with the least amount of mods (that I am unused to), but I can see the need for atleast CB pretenders.
No renaming will take getting used to. (Yes, I like renaming my mages according to their spell paths, but its a dirty habit anyway.)
Oh, and EA is cooler than MA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Cainehill]

I'm definately with QM and Ygorl on mods - CB pretenders and scales are generally straightforward, you don't have to relearn the entire game if you've been playing vanilla, and Worthy Heroes just makes heroes, heroes.

For those worrying about the game taking too long as it goes on : No diplo really makes the turns a lot quicker.

[Zeldor]

I missed one game that started without warning so count me in if there is a free place.

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

Ok. We have 15 players. We can have up to 20. So, I would suggest that we close the game to new players tonight (Saturday) so that nations can be assigned.

I don't think we can expect to start by Sunday, because players should have time to design a pretender, and we'll want a few days to sort through any settings and mod choices.

Pasha

[Jurri]

My preference for Ages is first Late (with Ermor and R'lyeh excluded) and second Early. It feels like I have played Late by far the least, with Middle being the most-played. With Late we could do Orania since there'd be no water nations. (Wraparound fo' life, yo!)

It would be best if you could finalize the settings/mods/map at the same as you distribute the nations, 'Dawg, since the pretender-design is heavily reliant on all those.

[calmon]

I would like to join this game.

[CUnknown]

I would like CB Pretenders and Scales also. Worthy Heroes is good, too. As far as the other CB mods, I don't mind not having them.

[Zaramis]

I'd like to try playing in this game as well. Since, well, I died in round 1 in a certain other game..

[Zaramis]

( And my option preferences are: I'm used to Vanilla, but CB pretenders / scales sounds good to me. No renaming. Worthy Heroes enabled. )

[HJFudge]

Where would I get the mod for CB pretenders and scales? Is the same as the Conceptual Balance Mod 1.1?

[PashaDawg]

You can find the CB mod here: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=519284&page=1&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[Sir_Dr_D]

Except none o the downloads work on that siite right now. The links have all expired.

[HJFudge]

Yeah I just tried to download em, not working :\

[PashaDawg]

Once we have a list of players, I will email out the mods to everyone so that everyone will have what they need. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If you want the mod sooner, just send me an email or a PM.

Pasha

[Amhazair]

Seeing as the two games I'm in are currently nearing a conclusion (at least my part in it is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), I should have the time to join this one. It sure looks like it could be fun.

[PashaDawg]

Ok. We have 18 players. So, I will close this game to new players.

[PashaDawg]

Nation assignments have been sent out. If you did not get yours, then let me know.

I am waiting for Zaramis to send me his email so I can send him his nation assignment.

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

MODS: Let's use the following mods:

CB 1.1 Pretenders & Scales
Worthy Heroes 1.8
(I don't think we need Endo's Quick Fix Mod, because we are playing Early Era.)

I have attached the Mod Files to this post. I will also mail them out. While you do not need the "Complete" CB mod for this game, I am sending it out just in case you want it.


MAP: We'll use the Orania map. I think it came with the game.

Other settings will be mentioned in first post of this thread for easy reference.

Pasha

[Agrajag]

Doesn't Orania have VPs built into it? Will it be a problem when playing a VB victory the way you intend to set it up?
(I've never actually player Orania http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif so I wouldn't know about any problems it may cause, I'm just asking just in case.)

[Zeldor]

Where is the list of changes that CB mod makes? I don't see anything in pretenders and I see Magic scale different a bit.

[PashaDawg]

Hi Agrajag and Zeldor:

I will make sure that there are no extra VP provinces on the map. Thanks for the reminder.

I have emailed out the read-me files that I have on the CB mod. Hopefully, that will give you helpful information.

Pasha

[Zeldor]

PashaDawg:

I also hope you resolve that balance issue I mailed you.

[CUnknown]

Zeldor, a lot of the pretenders are different -- mostly the weaker ones are better and cheaper, although some were somewhat nerfed, I think.

[PashaDawg]

Wraithlord sent me the following comment, and I thought it would be best to offer this up to you all, in case players decide to play Vanilla instead:


"I ran a short test game with the said mods and of a few battles one
actually gave different battle results than seen in battle replay. I'm
not really sure what to make of it."


Wraithlord was not sure if the same problem would result in 3.10 Vanilla. Does anybody else have thoughts or similar experiences?

I'll shoot to make a decision by tonight re whether to stay with the current mod set.

Pasha

[Jurri]

Well, my preference already was for vanilla: if it helps avoid battle replay -problems, then all the more reason for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sir_Dr_D]

I have been playing around with the mods a lot, and haven't ran into any trouble. You check with QM to see if he has heard about problems like this.

If in the first post you advertise the game as using mods, you should stick with it. It is unfair if players sign up for a game because of mods or certain settings, and then then they are changed later. Plus asking these questions tend to start arguments where no one agrees. It is best to just state the rules of the game at the beginning, and then stick with it.

[calmon]

I had different battle results in MP game in vanilla version as well (at least in 3.06 and 3.08).

It occurs primary in late game to me (or it was noticeable there) when a lot of battlespells work but not sure what the real reason is.

I saw different battle endings and the commanders/units often had different afflictions in battle replay and afterwards in the game.

Sometimes it was annoying but it was not reproduceable.

Maybe it still has something to do with different systems i.e. Linux Host and Windows Client.

[WraithLord]

I suggest to be careful here, it may be that this issue came with 3.10 and has nothing to do with CBM. I stumbled upon this by accident and have saved that battle in case someone that knows more then me (and isn't involved in this game) would like to take a closer look. I'm also participating in an MP game that's using the same CBM settings as proposed for RAND in which I haven't yet seen this issue. Hopefully this suggests that the issue is rare. IMHO if no one else has encountered or heard of the same then this issue by itself shouldn't be the reason to switch to vanilla.

EDIT, I'll do some research my self. I have a bunch of vanilla SP games started prior to 3.10 I'll play a few turns in all of them and see if something similar happens. long shot, but worth trying I think.

[Agrajag]

If in the first post you advertise the game as using mods, you should stick with it. It is unfair if players sign up for a game because of mods or certain settings, and then then they are changed later. Plus asking these questions tend to start arguments where no one agrees. It is best to just state the rules of the game at the beginning, and then stick with it.


It originally read something like
"Conceptual Balance Mod (unless players would rather play vanilla?)
Worthy Heroes Mod (unless players would rather play vanilla?)"

As for the replay bug:
In dom2 there were two reasons for the replay bug AFAIK:
1) Difference in version between host and client.
2) Difference in OS between host and client, due to a bug that has been fixed. (IIRC they had some lines that were similar to "if (random()>random())" and on one OS it would generate the left one first and on another it would generate the right one first)
None of which really fit the case.

Since these are SP games WraithLord is talking about, I have no real guess what is going on. Perhaps due to some bug in 3.10 the game generates a turn as if it was generated by version 3.10 and reads it with the client as if it was 3.8? Or the other way around? Or maybe it generates the turn without considering the mods and reads it with the client with consideration for the mods? Or the other way around?
It sounds a bit unlikely to me that the mods themselves are the source of the problem, though they may be a catalyst to it.

But then, what the hell do I know?

[Zeldor]

PashaDawg:

I had totally different battles in replays than in results in my first MP game which is vanilla.

[WraithLord]

Agrajag, I tend to agree with your analysis. Even more now that I have encountered the issue in one of my old vanilla SP games (old meaning started prior to 3.10). I have saved this turn as well but I assume its likely something along the lines of what you described that came with 3.10. I have played quite a lot of SP games prior to 3.10 and haven't encountered this issue. It may have been there before but not so blatantly as to reporting a lost battle as won and vice versa.

Based on that my opinion is to proceed as planned and if this is indeed a bug than we'll just have to live with it.

[CUnknown]

I don't mind either way.. I guess I like using the CB pretenders and scales, but it's no big deal for me. I sent in my pretender already, obviously I would have to resend if we changed the mods, just let us know.

[PashaDawg]

Hello All:

Ok. Unless someone has major concerns about the CB mod, we'll keep things the way they are.

My concern was that Wrathlord might have discovered a serious defect with the CB mod, and I did not want to start a game with a broken mod and later need to restart everything.

Agrajag is correct. The original first post of this thread was not conclusive as to which mods would be used. I edited it yesterday or so once I thought we had decided the settings, but then this potential problem popped up.

Thanks.

Pasha

[quantum_mechani]

On the topic of battle inconsistencies, it seems unlikely that any of the mods are the cause. I've seen those in just about every kind of game, sp and mp, modded and unmodded, since Dom2.

The Pretenders and Scales sections are even less likely to cause difficulties, the tweaks there are with such basic commands that if they mess up the game, virtually any mod messed up the game. Worthy heroes might be slightly more risky, but there is still no real reason to think mods are responsible.

[Meglobob]

I have only seen battle inconsistencies on the turns when we have changed version no. ie 3.08 ---> 3.10. Also when the host and player have different mods enabled!

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

I have *not* received pretenders from the following players:

Amhazair
Zaramis
Zeldor
Agrajag
Cainehill
Quantum Mechani
Ygorl
Meglobob
Jurri

If you already sent your pretender and you're on this list, then please send your pretender again.

Don't forget to send me the password, if any, in case we need to find a substitute for you. Also, your pretender's name should be the same as your nation's name (for example, Abysia's pretender's name should be "Abysia").

Deadline is ***TONIGHT*** (Wednesday) at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

[Agrajag]

You did not receive a pretender from me because I hadn't sent it yet.
I did just now, so there's no cause for concern. (Atleast on my part)

Oh, and I forgot to reply to your "bouncing emails" email, but no, I did not see any bouncing emails.

Good luck, everyone.

[Meglobob]

I sent my god on the 12th but have sent it again. I put Rand in the subject box.

[PashaDawg]

Hmm. Meglobob, I have not received any emails from you since Nov. 6.

Are you sending to the right address? whscom [at] maine {DoT} rr (dot) com

[Amhazair]

I just sent my pretender in, I hope it reaches you fine.

[Meglobob]

PashaDawg said:
Hmm. Meglobob, I have not received any emails from you since Nov. 6.

Are you sending to the right address? whscom [at] maine {DoT} rr (dot) com



Yep, thats the email address I have been using. Same as usual. I will send Rand and Epotara pretenders in again. If you do not get them, can you send me a email 1 on 1 and I will try replying to it, see if that works.

My turns to llamaserver are working fine.

[PashaDawg]

Hmm. I will send you an email right now.

[Meglobob]

Replied to test email and sent my 2 pretenders to alternative email address. All fingers and toes crossed!

[PashaDawg]

Meglobob: I opened a gmail account and sent you an email from that. Try responding to that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Success! I got your email to Gmail.

[Meglobob]

PashaDawg said:
Success! I got your email to Gmail.



Great! Have a/threads/images/Graemlins/icon30.gif

Does this mean its a problem at your end of some kind?

[PashaDawg]

I suppose it could be a problem with TimeWarner's Roadrunner. Funny that it won't pass on emails from you, even though it did on November 6.

[Zeldor]

PashaDawg:

I have sent my pretender on monday, so I suppose you didn't get that... give me your gmail address so I send it again.

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

I cannot start the game on time, because I am waiting on 3 players to submit their pretenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I have sent them an email, and they have my gmail account now in case their emails did not reach me originally.

Hopefully, we can start tomorrow.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hello:

There is a problem with one player's pretender. The game says he's a big, fat cheater, but I suspect that it is because he did not have the correct mods enabled when he created his pretender. I have asked him to resubmit the pretender by tonight.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 1 is out.

Let me know if there are any problems.

Deadline is Friday night at 9:00 pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 2 is out.

Deadline is tomorrow (Saturday).

Pasha

[Meglobob]

A new game.

Name that player!

I will name Oceania in 1... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Just waiting on one player's turn. Because the game just started I will wait a bit. I'd hate to give someone a stale so early.

Pasha

[Zeldor]

You should have gone with llamaserver, it would be easier for everyone...

[calmon]

Zeldor said:
You should have gone with llamaserver, it would be easier for everyone...



Why it is easier?

1. I had at least 1 stale turn because of trouble on llamaserver
2. Pasha can control the no diplomacy directive
3. What does it has to do with the reason that he waits for 1 player in the very first turns?

[WraithLord]

I second calmon. I think Pasha is doing a good job of moving the game along and so far all of his previous PBEM games were handled quite well.

[Meglobob]

I third it Pasha is a great host.

Never knock anyone who hosts games full stop, especially when they do it as well as Pasha does.

[Zeldor]

I never said he isn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But yeah, forgot about diplomacy aspect. I wonder how he makes sure noone sends messages and so on, checking everyone's orders?

[PashaDawg]

Turn 3 is out.

It would be nice if we could host again today, but that might catch some players by surprise. So, if necessary, I will host tomorrow night.

To answer Zeldor's question, for the most part, we are all trusting players to honor the rules. I keep an archive of every turn in case someone wants me to check into something.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 4 is out.

Deadline is Monday night, Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 5 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night, Boston time.

Pasha

[Amhazair]

Oh, btw. I forgot to mention I like your naming conventions Pasha. Makes me feel all grown up and important to have people call me Mr. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Turn 6 is out.

I will be traveling this evening for the Thanksgiving holiday in the USA. So, I won't be able to host the turn tonight. I will return on Thursday night and can host then if players are able to get their turns in by then. If necessary, I can host on Friday in case other US players have travel plans.

Thanks.

Pasha

PS: Amhazair: I started that naming convention because my computer's address book did not like single-named individuals, but I did not want to call y'all companies or institutions. So, I started adding "Mr." or "Herr", etc., as the first name if someone had a nick that was one word. Cher and Prince must have the same problem.

[calmon]

I get married tomorrow! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Well i thought i'll find the 5 minutes to make my turn but i underestimate all the things to do.

If the new turn comes in the next 4-5 hours i can do this one. In other way maybe Pasha can wait with hosting on saturday till sunday.

[PashaDawg]

Hi Calmon:

Congratulations! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I am still waiting on a few players to submit their turns. So, when I host turn 6, I will be sure to wait for you before hosting turn 7.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

calmon said:
I get married tomorrow! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Well i thought i'll find the 5 minutes to make my turn but i underestimate all the things to do.

If the new turn comes in the next 4-5 hours i can do this one. In other way maybe Pasha can wait with hosting on saturday till sunday.



Congratulation calmon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif and a toast for the couple http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif (no red wine so we'll settle for ale)

[Agrajag]

Congratulations!

So does that mean you'll spend your honeymoon playing Dominions? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (Well, five minutes of it anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[Amhazair]

calmon said:
I get married tomorrow! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Well i thought i'll find the 5 minutes to make my turn but i underestimate all the things to do.

If the new turn comes in the next 4-5 hours i can do this one. In other way maybe Pasha can wait with hosting on saturday till sunday.

W00t! Enjoy it mate.

[DonCorazon]

Have fun Calmon!

[calmon]

Thanks guys! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Honeymoon is set back, we've a 16 month old kid and another one is in progress. So our traveltime is limited at the moment.

[Aezeal]

I can't really say I'm happy the first turns which take about 1 min to do take this long.. but I guess I'll have to wait.. I want to get into the action (when indies are gone an nations clash)

edit: lol posted in wrong pasha thread

[PashaDawg]

I am waiting on 1 player's turn (Lanka). I will wait until Saturday morning my time to host the turn, just in case Lanka sent the turn but it was lost, etc.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 7 is out.

Deadline is Saturday night (assuming Calmon can play his turn).

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 8 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night at 9:00 pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Atlantis decided to go AI. It was played by Zeldor.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, I wanted to do it earlier, tried last turns and it got even worse. I am not 100% sure I do not like water nations and almost no space to expand.

[Jurri]

Sounds like you would be well-served by not getting into games that distribute nations randomly.

[Zeldor]

I like the idea of random nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I had some talk with Pasha before game started about that nation and fairness of that solution, but didn't want to bring it public, as it was a random game. I decided to take a try and it simply didn't work.

[PashaDawg]

I am sorry that things did not work out this time around for Zeldor.

I suggest we move forward, and I wish Zeldor the best in the next game he plays. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

Pasha:

Actually I am losing 3/3 of my MP games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif So I need more luck, I think +2 at least [I am losing the one where I had luck+1 too].

[PashaDawg]

Turn 9 is out.

Deadline is tonight (Monday) at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Don't forget that we will switch to a 3 turn / week schedule after turn 15.

Pasha

[Zeldor]

Pasha:

You can delete me from mailing list for that game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

This game has been fun so far, I imagine the paranoia will reach new heights as the game progresses! Dang, I wish I could talk to people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Jurri]

You can always talk to Pasha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Meglobob]

CUnknown said:Dang, I wish I could talk to people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif



Personally, I am really enjoying the silence... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Its good not to have the hassle of diplomacy.

What might be fun in the future would be a no diplomacy, no indies game.

This would focus a player totally on his own nation.

[PashaDawg]

Yes. I am always happy to lend an ear, although I cannot offer any advice or information. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Don Corazon requested an extension. I will wait until morning to host, if necessary.

[DonCorazon]

Sent my turn in.

[DonCorazon]

Sorry, on West Coast and I work late. Tough when the turn comes out in the morning for me to get it done.

[PashaDawg]

It's no problem. When we go on the 3-turn / week schedule, it will be easier.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 10 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 11 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

[PashaDawg]

I have turned Lanka AI.

It was played by Zaramis, and unfortunately, he was unable to play his turns.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 12 is out.

Because the hosting is late, I will extend the deadline for turns until Saturday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 13 is out.

Deadline is Monday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 15 went out this morning.

[PashaDawg]

Maverni is not dead.

It was played by Alneyan.

Pasha

[Amhazair]

PashaDawg said:
Maverni is not dead.


It isn't? Nice. I'm looking forward to hearing the tale of it's secret underground resistance, recovery, revenge, and final ascent to world domination... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zaramis]

Just wanted to apologize for ruining the game for others by not being able to play my turns. I had an overload of things in RL during the days when this game started and it was generally a very stressful time. I apologize to all involved.

[PashaDawg]

No biggie, Zaramis. Good luck in the next game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

ooops. Maverni *IS* mort!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[PashaDawg]

Turn 16 is out.

Deadline is SUNDAY.

We are now on the 3 turn / week schedule. Hosting will be on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday.

Pasha

[Alneyan]

Someone's been a very naughty boy and won't get any presents for Christmas.

Of course, I've been killed so soon because I couldn't name my Pretender Asterix.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 17 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night at 9:00 pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 18 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

Thank you.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 19 is out.

Deadline is Sunday evening.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Pan is dead this turn.

It was played by Shmonk.

[Shmonk]

Yes, it was fun while it lasted. I hadn't played Pan yet, and this was an eye opener, definitely learned something. Good luck all.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 20 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday at 9:00 pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 21 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

Pasha

[Agrajag]

Turn 22 is also out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Oopps! Yup. Turn 22 went out last night. Deadline is Sunday.

However, I will be flexible due to the holiday week coming up. I think several players will be traveling, etc.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

I am hosting Xmas for my family this year, and it will take more time than I expected to be a good host. So, turn hosting might be a bit spotty this week. Thanks for your patience.

Pasha

[Agrajag]

Its okay, I'm not really anticipating seeing what turn 23 brings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CUnknown]

I'm sorry guys, my computer was stolen. I believe I've already sent in my turn for the current one... so maybe if the hosting is very spotty like Pasha said, we won't even be held up on my account..

Christmas thieves are bastards! But, honestly, I should probably start locking my door. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Maybe with the renter's insurance I will get more than my computer is worth and I can buy a better one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif In the meantime, maybe I will install Dominions on my work computer. (Shhh)

[PashaDawg]

We have three players with problems:

One is in the Caribbean without internet;

Another has disappeared due to an internet connection meltdown; and

Finally, one has had his computer stolen.

I think I will put this game on hold until New Year's Day. I have CUnknown's turn, and the delay will give a little time for the other players to return. I hope everyone is ok with that.

Thanks.

Pasha

[Agrajag]

I hope everyone is ok with that.


Sure, I don't mind, just make sure to post a message here when the next turn is sent.
As I know myself, by New Year's the game will have completely slipped out of my conscious mind and I'll probably miss the turn if I don't get any reminder(s) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[PashaDawg]

I am waiting for one more turn (except from the player who has disappeared), and then I will host. I will send out a reminder to players.

Sorry for the delay.

Thanks.

Pasha

[llamabeast]

Is one of your missing players HJFudge? He is missing from Sloth you see. If so, which one is he? The Caribbean or the internet meltdown?

[PashaDawg]

The player in the Caribbean is DonCorazon.

Lazy Perfectionist is the player who has disappeared, and I think I will turn him AI, if he does not show up quickly. Someone told me that his internet connection was lost, but I'd think he could find a way to post a message (such as by going to the library).

However, I noticed today that I am still waiting on a turn from HJFudge, and I sent him an email today requesting him to send me a turn. I will host tonight if I don't hear from him.

CUnknown's computer was stolen.

Pasha

[DonCorazon]

DC is en route back to home sweet home San Francisco. My apologies to the eager players. I am usually a quick turnaround player but overestimated my ability to find wireless Internet in the Dom Rep. I should have my turn in tonight -still have to get out of Miami on another delayed American flight.

[Micah]

Pasha, you stated earlier that the game would be on hold til New Year's Day, so I can't agree with staling HJ til then, as much as I'd like to see the game start up again (unless we're sure that he's gone for good, in which case waiting wouldn't help anyhow). I can't believe I'm saying this. Need my Dominions fix....

[PashaDawg]

Turn 23 is out.

I did not notice the messages before hosting the turn. I played DC's turn to make sure that his turn would not be wasted (I did mindless things like making sure all mages were researching, etc.).

The Fudge was able to get his turn in before I hosted.

The next turn is due on New Year's Day.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 24 is out.

Deadline is Thursday.

Pasha

[Agrajag]

Turn 25 will be for Sunday, right?
(I'm going for the weekend.)

[Meglobob]

Can't we get back on the tues--thurs--sun turnaround?

Holidays are over, back to the slaughtering, raping and pillaging!

[Agrajag]

Isn't that exactly what we're doing?
That's why I assumed Sunday as the day for the turn 25.
(At this point it might be required to point out that since I live in Israel, where Sunday has no religious important and so a weekend end at the end of the week, Saturday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

[Meglobob]

Agrajag said:
Isn't that exactly what we're doing?
That's why I assumed Sunday as the day for the turn 25.



Read the words of the great Pasha:-


PashaDawg said:
Turn 24 is out.

Deadline is Thursday.

Pasha



The crucial word being Thursday... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Todays wednesday, just in case you enjoyed the holiday season too much! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Micah]

I think Agrajag was asking when the turn 25 .2h file was due (Sunday), not when the .trn file would be generated (Thursday).

[Agrajag]

I was asking when 25 .2h file was due, that is indeed true.
I also wondered (and am still wondering) what the problem Meglobob is talking about, since we are following a Tue-Thu-Sun schedule just like he said, the next turn is for Thursday and the following will be for Sunday (I presume).

Anyway, I'm off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Meglobob]

Agrajag said:since we are following a Tue-Thu-Sun schedule just like he said, the next turn is for Thursday and the following will be for Sunday (I presume).




Thats ok then, I thought there was going to be another delay and I am fed up with all the games stalling.

Anyway, I am allowed to be grumpy, I have to go back to evil, evil work tomorrow.

[PashaDawg]

Yes. We're back on the Tue - Thur - Sun schedule.

Turn 25 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 26 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday.

(Sorry about sending out the false turn.)

[PashaDawg]

Turn 27 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 28 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Mictlan was played by Ygorl.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 29 is out.

Because of the delay, we'll make the next turn due on Thursday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Agrajag played Tir na n'Og.

[Agrajag]

Well, it was fun. I made some stupid and some terrible mistakes (sneaking instead of attacking, attacking instead of sneaking, attacking/sneaking to the wrong province etc.), but those probably aren't why I lost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Have fun everyone.

[PashaDawg]

Agartha has not been playing his turns.

I am going to turn him AI this next turn if he fails submit a turn again.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 30 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Agartha has been turned AI because the player ceased submitting turns.

Agartha was played by HJFudge.

[DonCorazon]

He went AWOL in the Urapara game as well.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 32 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

[Meglobob]

Would it be breaking the non-diplomacy rule if I said,'lets all attack (insert nation name here) before he wins the game'?

Obviously, if its not I will insert nation name and if it is I will say no more!

[WraithLord]

I think it would break the rule.

To be strict, even discussing why this may or may not break the rule may break the rule (by communicating something that's diplomacy related by mistake or by intention).

Let everyone draw their own conclusions.

[CUnknown]

I think it would definitely be breaking the rule, although it's not my call.

[deleted]

What exactly is the victory condition in this game, anyway?

[deleted]

Is this post against the rule also? I will edit and erase if it is.

[Micah]

I'm pretty sure posts in this vein are against the intent of the rules, but I think some leaks are inevitable given how long the game has gone on. I know I'm guilty of a bit of it myself, so I shan't cast too many stones...

[Jurri]

Yes, a line of discussion like that is very blatantly against the rules! One might even argue that discussions like this are exactly the reason for the no-diplomacy gametype in the first place http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif When in doubt, consult Pashadawg on what's appropriate and what's not.

The victory condition can always be checked in options -> game settings. The condition for this game is having 9 Victory Points: every other capital.

[Meglobob]

I like to think I stayed just inside the no-diplomacy rule by the (insert nation here), on the edge, but not crossing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On a positive note, it injected some discussion in the game thread and stopped Pasha talking to himself, turn after turn.

It will be most interesting to see which player got which nation come the end.

As virtually all the remaining players are MP winners, I guess we all will after trust they are all wise enough not to allow anyone (insert nation here) to steamroller him/herself to a early and quick victory!

[Micah]

I believe you were clear over the edge on that one actually, Meglo, but Pasha's the one to confirm that, not me. The point of the game is that there wasn't supposed to be discussion. Feel free to talk to Pasha about the game, he's been humoring me and my needs to chat about it to someone. I'd be happy to discuss after everything is said and done as well, and I think it would be a fun chat, but not now.

[PashaDawg]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

SILENCE!

No such talk! There can be no discussion of the game among players, unless it is just about scheduling turns, and the like.

SILENCE, RULE-BREAKERS!!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[PashaDawg]

Turn 33 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 34 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

It looks like the current patch is available. Please remember to play your current turn in this RAND game before you apply the patch, unless you decide to have more than one copy of the game on your computer (one with the current patch and one without). I would like to wait until tonight to decide whether to use the patch for this game. If players have thoughts, please post them in the thread (without revealing your nation).

Thanks.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

I vote for using the patch for this game.

[Jurri]

I'd rather wait until tomorrow to see if sightings of any new "features" crop up on the forum: remember, the track record of Dominions with patches introducing new bugs is atrocious. If no problems surface by the time Pasha will host, by all means let's patch.

[WraithLord]

Jurri has me convinced. I 2nd his suggestion.

[CUnknown]

I agree with Jurri, let's wait a couple days and see.

[PashaDawg]

Ok! We will wait until at least Tuesday night if not a bit longer to patch.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 35 is out. It was hosted with the patch. Deadline is Thursday.

Players should updated to the patch for this game.

Thanks.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

I had an email glitch last night. A few player emails were lost in the ether when I hosted last night. The emails were sent before I hosted. So, I rehosted the turn this morning.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Turns are due on Thursday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

A player's turn is not working. So, I have asked him to resend & if necessary replay his turn.

Hopefully, we'll get this resolved by tonight and can host the turn.

Pasha

[Cainehill]

I'd just like to say - if a turn is delayed a day, please don't just go with the next regular due date. Having an effective turn around time of 24 hours or less (depending on when we finally get the turn) sucks, at least for me.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 36 is out last night.

Deadline is Sunday night.

Cainehill: I will keep that in mind.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 37 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 38 is out.

The deadline for turns is Thursday 9:00 pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 39 is out.

Vanheim has gone AI. It was played by Sir Dr. D.

Turn deadline is Sunday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 40 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 41 is out.

Because of the delay in hosting, the turn will be due on FRIDAY.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 42 is out.

Deadline is Sunday night at 9pm Boston time.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

I received a PM from a friend of Amhazair that Amhazair is having internet connection difficulties. So, I am going to wait for him until Tuesday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

C'Tis was played by Don Corazon.

[PashaDawg]

Turn 43 is out.

Deadline is Thursday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

A player has suggested that we slow the pace of this game. What do players think? Maybe we could change the pace to two turns per week (such as Tuesday and Friday, or which ever days make sense).

Pasha

[WraithLord]

I vote for slowing. Preferred days, Monday and Friday for the simple reason that you get four work days between Monday and Friday and one working + two weekend days between Friday and Monday which is IMO the most balanced split up of the week.

[Micah]

sounds good to me as well.

[Amhazair]

I have no objections.

[CUnknown]

It seems that most people want the game slowed, and that is fine with me. But to be honest, if the options are to slow down the pace of the game or to give less extensions and keep to a 48 hour schedule, I would prefer the latter. I eagerly await the turns and lose concentration if there is too long between turns.

Apparently, some of you people actually have lives and real jobs. WTF? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[calmon]

I'm fine with both versions.

[Jurri]

Same here.

[Amhazair]

CUnknown said:
Apparently, some of you people actually have lives and real jobs. WTF? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Yeah, I know. It just sneaked up on me and trapped me before I knew it. I keep wondering how that happened every time I realise it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

That said, when I said I had no objections to extending the hosting time I meant it was fine for me either way, just like the two posters above me.

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

A player has told me that he can no longer play in this game due to real life matters. So, if someone is interested in joining this game, please let me know.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Shmonk will be taking over for Meglobob in the game. Thank you, Shmonk!

[PashaDawg]

Turn 45 is out.

Deadline is Monday. (We will switch to the Monday / Friday schedule that Wraithlord suggested. There will be 2 hostings per week, and I will be more resistant to extensions, so the game can keep going.)

Pasha

[calmon]

Well this time i need a timeout. I'm moving to a new apartment and i (and my familiy) underestimate all the things to do. It would be fine if we can host this time on wednesday.

For the books: its my first need in this game so i hope its ok for you.

[PashaDawg]

I would say that moving your family is a good excuse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Turn 46 is out.

Deadline will be Saturday night.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 47 is out.

Sorry for the delay. Turn is due on Friday night.

Pasha

[Amhazair]

You said we were moving to 3.15 for this turn already, right?

[PashaDawg]

Yes. This turn was hosted with 3.15.

[Micah]

Who was Caelum?

[PashaDawg]

Caelum was played by Cainehill.

[WraithLord]

So we're down from 18 to what, 7?

Damn, the suspense is killing me, who's playing each nation???

Sorry for outburst, thread is back at Pasha's control http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Amhazair]

Damn, I just had a look at the surviving players:

Jurri, Cunknown, Meglobob/Schmonk, Wraithlord, QM, Micah, Calmon, and me... I feel in seriously exalted company. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Second that, I feel like being invited to a party with some great company http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I don't know why exactly but RAND games are for me the most enjoyable. This one is very tense, which is a great thing.

[CUnknown]

RAND games are fun! I'm enjoying this one, too. It is very fun, and tense! Very tense. Things are going ... um.. I mean it may be time to... um... yeah. I guess I am not allowed to say.

Nevermind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Glad the game is fun!

Turn 48 is out. Deadline is Monday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 49 is out.

Deadline is Friday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Turn 50 is out.

Deadline for turns is Monday.

Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Hi:

The turn is out.

Fomoria wins!

Pasha

[Micah]

Oh man, that was a brutal endgame...Shark attack is really really really stupid. Nice game there Calmon, you were really doing some damage there at the end, but luckily it was too late to have much impact other than making me hurry up.

MVP of the game goes to Dagan, the renegade sage. His discovery of a sage's guild which in turn allowed the discovery of the Library of Time, and later the Crystal Citadel, is easily what won the game for me. I feel like I made some excellent plays as well on my way to the win.

The map had some issues, although I do like it. I think the VP provinces (on the normal map) prevented capital placement nearby, so a lot of nations had a ton of room to expand. I guess in the end it paid off for me to be near a lot of neighbors, since I was going for cap VPs for the win, but it certainly didn't seem like a good spot to be in to start.

Luckily Marverni and Tir were both fairly weak in the early game (Phoenix and master lich pretenders...) so I was able to crush Marverni and then outmaneuver Mictlan while he was killing Tir, and then mop up both of them. C'tis similarly imploded while I was fighting with Ulm (I didn't really want to fight that fight, but the FotA forced my hand, and it turned out really nicely since the Earth gem income was really important). Once I finally got Ulm (and hence Pan) under control I knew I could probably risk an air raid for the last 2 caps...I had Abysia scouted, and he'd been under siege for a long time, so that was an easy call...I figured Atlantis would also be an easy take due to their lack of movement, but I didn't count on the stupidity of Shark attack, forcing me to hit Lanka instead for my last capital. I used both Iron Walls and Crumble in this game, it was kind of an odd one...

483 RP to finish up blood 9 on my last turn, and I had a semi-functional tart factory up, but it only popped out about 3 before I got distracted (one was super useful though, with F/E/A for cloud trapeze, rain of stones, and fire storm with boosters)

[CUnknown]

Damn ... we were chipping away at you at the end there. If we only had more time!

Good game, Micah! You kicked some major booty there.

[WraithLord]

Congratulation Micah, you played very well.

As for myself, I have made a strategical mistake of attacking Yomi thinking it will be an easy pick, instead of Joining the attack on you. I think my help could have made a difference, but you took the VPs too rapidly and I was too late for that to happen.

Very good, action packed game, thank you Pasha for hosting.

[quantum_mechani]

Congrats Micah, it was a pretty wild and fun game for me, though I must admit I'm not overly disappointed it's over.

I have to say I was somewhat surprised who ended up being which nations, the only one I guessed right was Jurri. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear from other player about how the game looked from other perspectives, and what other people's player guesses were. I was feeling a bit bored and decided to write a slightly dramatized account of the game from the Abysian perspective. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Episode I, The Lizard Menace

The trials of the Abysians were more or less determined from the very start, with both the Vanir and C'tissians having capitals within two provinces of the great volcano. It was around halfway through the first year of the ascension war the first blood was drawn, the C'tissians invaded and the relatively small Abysian army was forced to withdraw to the capital while proper evocations were researched. After a number of turns of raiding and preperation for the attack C'tissians finally risked the attack on the capital the Abysians were hoping for. By then the Abysian god, the Prince of the Wastes, had awakened, evocations were ready, and events had raised the province defense to near maximum levels.

Episode II, Attack of the Vans

After the ensuing massacre, the prospects of the fledgling Abysian nation swiftly dealing with C'tis and building an empire seemed bright. Unfortunately, the very next month, when the Prince of the Wastes first set foot out of the capital, a sailing Vanir army equipped with thunder strike and a blessing of death sailed out of nowhere (or rather, out of Vanhiem, which it just so happened was just a one turn hop across the lake). The Abysian army could not hope to withstand the thunder strikes by themselves, and while the Abysian god could laugh in the face of lightning, the wicked weapons of death wielded by the sacred troops were another matter. But at least the cave castle was in no danger of a breach in the near future, and the mages prepared in safety, while a wrathful god stuck outside the walls could do nothing but wander about raiding and killing the lizard armies that littered the countryside (the lay of land was such capital besiegers blocked the only route to the lands of Vanir). The wandering god was more successful than the Abyssians could have hoped, and once mercenaries were hired, they soon began running out of suitable C'tis provinces to raid.

Chapter III, Revenge of the Abysians

It should note here that back during the C'tis war the demons of Yomi had made an abortive attempt to take advantage of the situation and procure a Abysian territory adjoining the capital. Unfortunately for them, a hunch on the part of Abysian leadership preempted the attack, and it was defeated the very turn of the suprise invasion. At the time there was little in the form of reprisal that could be considered, and it was simply considered fortunate no further aggressive actions emerged. Now though, Abysia had a rampaging and exiled God with little to loose, and sparsely defended Yomi border to the south.

Episode IV, A New Hope

So the Lord of the Wastes and his mercenaries turned south, with still greater successes, taking perhaps a half a dozen provinces without meeting significant resistance. During this time the mages in the capital had the satisfaction of watching several armies of C'tis (no doubt convinced the Vanir had stolen their prize) virtually suicide themselves against the Vanir's thunder strikes. The Vanir had meanwhile breached the walls of the capital some time ago, but for some reason timidly held off. This was agreeable to the Abysians, in the meantime the mages had summoned a host of summer lions and researched falling fires. When shortly after Van finally decided to storm, the battle swung miraculously in the Abysian's favor, with summer lions drawing all the thunder strikes, and evocations whittling away the troops. In the end, not a single Abysian mage was lost in the battle and the capital was once again free.

Shortly after, the remaining Van provinces around the capital were tentatively mopped up, while meanwhile the Lord of the Wastes an his mercenaries pushed ever farther south. This was the brief golden age of the Abysian empire, the threat of a new Van army making another grab at the capital was ever present, but prospects were one again hopeful.

Episode V, The Oni Strike Back

Inevitably, the Dai Oni started trickling in from wherever they had been occupied at the start of the war. At first in small numbers the Abysian god was more than a match for them, but as the number and level of equipment increased he was often forced to retreat (though over the course of the war, his eye shield blinded more Dai Oni than could be easily counted). In any case, the Lord of the Wastes could only be in one place at a time, and the war's front was slowly pushed back. The bright spot for the Abysians was that scouts reported that both the Vanir and C'tissians had plenty of problems and were themselves in danger of being overrun. In an effort to deliver a decisive blow, the Abysian god finally prepared with new weapons dared a direct trapeze on top of a group of Dai Oni atteptting to sneak around him to the capital. Unfortunately this proved to be his last foray, and he was overcome. A new siege of the capital started shortly.

Episode VI, Return of the Pretender.

With the number of priest-mages at the capital, the pretender's return was swift, but the loss of magic and equipment was great a blow. When the Oni breached the walls (much faster than the Vanir had done), the number of Dai Oni outside greatly outnumbered the party that had killed him the first time. Abysia did, however, have one new secret weapon. Early in the war, one of the first provinces captured contained a magus temple, a quite lucky find considering how meager the resources available for site searching in the Abysian homeland were. As the war went on, the temple changed hands several times, but in the turmoil about a half dozen magus were produced, and all made it safely back to the capital as the Oni advanced. With a few gems set aside for eyes of the void and spell foci, a communion was set up, with magus the very few warlocks at the capital. Soul slay was researched just in time for this desperate Dai Oni countermeasure to be up and running on the day of the storm. The communion proved quite pivotal to the battle, and though several mages and summer lions were killed, this siege too was defeated. At first there were worries of a new attempt on the capital, after all more than half the Dai Oni had escaped with their lives. It soon became apparent however that Yomi too now was facing another aggressor, as troops of T'ien Ch'i appeared on the Yomi border.

Epilogue

By this time the Abysian people had come to be quite cynical about the concept of peace, and their expectations were not disappointed. Scant turns after the Yomi defeat, the greatest army yet to find the walls of Abysia materialized with no warning. The skirmish outside the walls showed a frightening force, one with numerous SCs, every flavor of support magic, and most terrifying of all to the lava born, fir resistance. The towering giants were well prepared and inexorable, they breached the walls the very turn they appeared.

The walls of Abysia were known the be the bane of many an army, but with virtually all of the troops dead from patrolling on the turn of the attack, any hope of victory seemed beyond a miracle. So, reluctantly, the escape tunnels were prepared (a titan needs a rather large one) and pretender and mages alike retreated once more into exile. In the months after the escape, the strange one eyed invaders showed little interest in the surrounding countryside, and the exiled Abysians gathered around the occupied capital and plotted their return...

[DonCorazon]

Excellent tale, QM. I was C'tis in this, one of my first games (MP or SP). I had no idea what to do with C'tis but learned some valuable lessons. I plagued Abysia for a short time, but after getting whacked, especially seeing the power of Van, the C'tissian troops became quite despondent, and it was over before it began for the lizard folk. I was happy to enjoy a bit of rampaging and not to be the first one out, though most of my game was really just a prolonged death.

Congrats to all.

[Meglobob]

Well done Micah on your win.

Sorry I had to drop out when I did as Sauro, thanks Shmonk for taking over. I had hoped to keep playing this one game but real life would not let me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I do not think it would have made any difference to Fomoria/Micah winning.

I guessed Cainehill was playing Caelum and Micah was playing Fomoria by about turn 30'ish.

I thought Jurri was playing Oceania (wrong), Amhazair was playing Ulm (wrong) and did not have a clue about other nations/players.

I spent most of the game being scared of Ulm early on and later Fomoria, largely because I had never played Sauro before in SP or MP and I only had a 'standard' strategy for them. The poison archers are great for early game expansion thou. I did get all 3 air queens, 2 earth kings and the daughter of typhoon (disappointed it was not a commander) which was cool. I had a very, very lucky starting position. I was very unlucky with astral gems, arcane probed 60 provinces and got less then 10S income and I only discovered one special site giving me illusionists.

Well done to Fomoria for overriding my well of misery the turn after I cast it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Micah]

What gave me away Meglo? Just curious what you picked up on from my play style. I noticed your excellent start as well, was hard-pressed to keep up with you.

Would have done some more damage to you if I hadn't had to take out Ulm, even though having to project power all the way to the other side of the map with you in between was really difficult (luckily Fomoria's crazy teleporting powers could handle it with enough gems to fuel the machine).

How many gems went into your well? I tossed all 211 (IIRC) into mine, figuring it'd be a sure bet as an overwrite...Figured I'd be fighting more with you at the time as well, so the huge gem swing was worth losing out on short-term stocks for...I actually ended up alching death gems at the end of the game for pearls and air gems for my cap-taking teleport squads, I felt sooo dirty doing that to death gems =)

[PashaDawg]

I have a backups of all turns. So, if anyone wants to review any turns, etc., just let me know. The master password would allow you to look at other player turns. (I will delete the files in a week or so.)

Pasha

[calmon]

Congratulation Micah, well played!

Oceania wasn't the nation of my choice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif and i start the game with a big pretender design mistake. Choosing an awe wyrm without any magic and good scales was definitivly wrong!

The wyrm helps a little for early expansion but the good scales were wasted and the missing magic cost me a lot of gems for empowering.

I had a order/growth 3 but was hit by the old scale bug at the start of the game and later by the newer scale bug. I ended up with only 34.250 population in my home province by turn 51. I never got a pop losing event and thats a real shame for growth 3! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif
In addition my good dom 10 is also not as good for water nations because water provinces tend to have a lot of neighbours which let the own scale spread in a very poor manner (and have to fight a lot of enemy dominions).

The lack of good magic paths like death, astral and the non-magic pretender hurts me a lot. I build up some clams and had a lot of fetishes but ended up to use my astral/fire gems mostly to empower mages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif or converting in other gems.

Also water nations aren't a fan of this map. There are only "sea" provinces and not one "deep sea". I "voice of tiamat" very early but found nothing great in quality and quantity. And for my taste there were to many land nations home provinces on (or near) the coasts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I was sure Ulm was played by Jurri but was really unsure for the rest.

The game was fun to me. I like the victory conditions and the non-diplomacy part. I'm undecided about the random nations, maybe secret bets are possible or at least some nation exclusions.

However, i would really appreciate a successor!

[WraithLord]

I would also appreciate a successor but hopefully one that will start after May ('cause I'm on vacation late April through May).

Also, I would like to review the game turns for fun and maybe also for learning something more. So, Pasha, can you please send me the files?

I'll take QMs example and give a short perspective of the game from TC standpoint.

Lately I've started to take a liking to good scales pretender on order,growth and luck and bad scales on production and research. So I chose an imprisoned rainbow+scales master lich.

The research decision really hurt me as I was far behind and this translated to limited tactical and strategical options and I think is one of the reasons it took me so long to bring down Yomi (though not completely by game end).

The game started for me with easy indie expansion then grabbing some of Agartha and later killing Van. Then I started to look for next target and here came my biggest mistake, I've decided based on my scouts and the score graphs that Yomi will be an easy target that I can capture and only then move against Fomoria hoping that the other nations will restrain Fomoria.

When I realized that I should put my energy against Fomoria I was already locked in bitter war with Yomi and though ever so slowly he had succumbed, he was giving a hell of a fight , valiant and crafty, costing me great resources.

[Amhazair]

Nicely done Micah. I managed to only own one scout province during the entire game, so I saw a lot less of the action than I usually do, but what I saw (and I managed to catch a few big battles) certainly looked frightening. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I was unfamiliar with Yomi, and I worried about the early expansion before the game, but after much doubting, in this no-trade game I decided not to forego the magic diversity of a rainbow pretender. In the end expansion went moderately okay, though not stellar, and my early war with Agartha went okay too, though again not stellar, and T'ien Chi managed to swoop in and claim the VP from under my nose.

With Dai Oni and a rainbow pretender at my disposal I had allways felt confident I had all the tools I needed for a strong end game (and I still do), but somewhere along the way I forgot about the midgame, and before I realised it I had run incredibly behind in my research and I never managed to recover from it.

Then Abysia decided to be a royal pain in the *** (that'll teach me to try and take advantage of a wounded oponent without having the intention of following through with it) and T'ien Chi's invasion meant that once more I wouldn't be able to finish them off. (2 of the blinded mages later did manage to end up in the hall of fame though, thanks to rain of stones. That was fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif In fact this was the first time ever I had the opportunity to use this spell, and it worked even better than I expected. Several hundred troops and a couple dozen mages can no longer testify to that)

Finally T'ien Chi defeated me comprehensively. I wasn't afraid of the individual armies he sent at me, but he outguessed me and I didn't manage to catch them in the beginning, was totally and utterly outraided and my lands just melted away around me.

Lessons learned:
* Don't mess with someone unless you intend to make sure he never recovers.
* Do not forget to monitor your research closely, even for a little while. Before you know it it's too late to recover.
* Raiding, raiding, raiding! I knew this already obviously, but Wraithlord forcefully reminded me of it, and took it to a whole new level.
* Dai Oni's rock! Once you get some research going they're amazingly versatile.
* Some people's reputations seem justified. Somehow, without ever playing with them, I guessed Jurri to be Ulm, and Micah to be Fomoria.
* Meglobob still thinks I'm awesome.
* I still have a lot to learn before I'm as awesome as he thinks I am.
* RAND games are fun, playing games whit the top-notch oposition I encountered is fun, Pasha is a great host, and this was a great game. Thanks to everyone involved.

Edit: this
he was giving a hell of a fight , valiant and crafty, costing me great resources.

is obviously good to hear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Though my hope of defeating you vanished quickly, I definitely had great fun trying to make things as painful as possible for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[WraithLord]

How was everyone able to tell Jurri was playing Ulm and Micah playing Fomoria???

I was utterly wrong on the guessing department. I thought Jurri was playing Yomi (wrong), Amhazhair playing Oceania (wrong), Calmon playing Sauromatia (wrong).

I was only right on Micah playing Fomoria, b/c I guessed a player with so many victories must have a very aggressive style.

Anyway, again, this was a fun game and I'm looking forward to RAND2.

[DonCorazon]

Pasha thanks for hosting. I would love to see the turn files.

[CUnknown]

Quick, someone start a new game before withdrawal sets in!

[Meglobob]

Micah said:
What gave me away Meglo? Just curious what you picked up on from my play style.



Sheer aggressive style from beginning, middle to end game backed by your impressive win record. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Micah said:How many gems went into your well?



I cast it at base cost.

At that stage you were looking unstoppable, I figured me getting the well of misery up and using it to spam ghost riders, conjure tartarians and hit your armies with leprosy, plus enable me to skele spam + darkness and others attacking you might just give us all a chance.

I at least thought it was a, 'shot to nothing', in that it would last 4 turns and get me my gems back. This is the only MP I have been in where someones gem producing global lasted 1 turn, good play!


Amhazair said:
* Meglobob still thinks I'm awesome.



Correct! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But not as awesome as Wraithlord, cause he beat you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[PashaDawg]

I am happy to host another RAND game, but maybe wait until May so Wraithlord can play.

I will look into sending the turns to players who request, but maybe not *all* of the turns, because it would be a huge, huge file. But, I could send maybe a select few over certain intervals, and then if a player wants a specific game turn, then I can send that, too.

Pasha

[Jurri]

Ooh, congrats Micah! I had also placed you at Fomoria way early (before you attacked me), just based on the audacity of your game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I also put QM at Abysia since no one else uses that kind of pretenders (although Vanheim also scripted very QM-like to my eye)... The rest, I had no idea about. Indeed, I thought Wraithlord was Sauro, just based on the temperate pattern of expansion.

I had some real big plans before the onslaught. Even when Fomoria attacked, I figured him attacking me was just excellent since that would mean he wouldn't sneak a win by grabbing other capitals when I was busy preparing for my play... Then I saw the Shadow Seers and the Enchantress and knew that was that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

A fun game: thanks Pasha for hosting, and all youse for playing! How did you all know I was Ulm?

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:
How did you all know I was Ulm?

Well, I was reasonably sure you were Sauro, Fomoria or Ulm just from the early graphs. But Sauro used a lot of unorthodox summons I don't think you would have picked, and getting forge rolling seemed more your style than Fomoria's permanent state of rushing.

I'm not sure my pretender was such a bad choice. An awake PoD/Cyclops or blessing would have mopped up C'tis faster, but still not near fast enough that I wouldn't have been left in pretty much the same situation when Van attacked. And the free gems were suprisingly useful.

[Shmonk]

Definitely a great game, I was in it at the beginning (as Pan), and the end (as a replacement for Meglobob as Sauro). As Pan I fell quickly to Ulm, and it really irked as I had some bad luck in my first few turns (bad strategy, failed to take provinces 2 or 3 times in a row). So when a replacement was needed I figured I'd check it out. Decent position, but I'd never played Sauro before, so I was learning a lot. And damn, Fomoria was a pain to beat, I didn't know which tactics would work best. And I could tell from the graphs he was about to win, so I thought he would go for the Caleum capital. Instead he went for Lanka, and I wasn't prepared for that, and knew it was over. I tried to throw a last ditch strike against Lanka, but the seers and Giant Kings ruled the battle. Great game!!

I definitely can't wait for the next RAND game, hopefully it will start as late as June, only because I will be heading to South Africa for my brother's wedding at the end of May. Never been there (should be fun) and won't have a computer with me. Oh well, if it starts while I'm gone I'll be available as a sub when I get back. Unless of course the game starts now (hehehe). Great game everybody. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Shmonk

[PashaDawg]

Sent a variety of turns to folks. If you have special requests, let me know. I will keep the files for a week or so.

Pasha

[WraithLord]

I'm watching the replays now. Got to turn 20.

Boy, Does Micah have one helluva aggressive play style. From the get go he is simply pounding all opposition and somehow seems to ride a razor's edge between victory and defeat. In specific battles he seems to be taking risls but somehow almost always ends up winning. Got to give him credit, for he has got (in a manner of speech) one set of iron balls http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I have never yet, in all my experience of playing dominions encountered such an aggressive play style. Nice making your acquaintance Micah, hope to meet you in future games. Though next time when I see a nation madly rushing for victory I'll go to help stop it, instead of selfishly trying to expand my empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Got to turn 34 which gives a good snapshot of the war between Ulm and Fomoria. This turn shows Jurri to deploy very interesting raiding tactics.

I'm eagerly rushing to the next turns to see the dirty details of how that war goes on.