DangerPudding - random nations EA game (finished)

[lch]

Hey, I'm looking forward to hosting yet another multiplayer game, just like my latest two hosted games, Onomancy (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=559989) and Rhoscrowther (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=560550).

Target audience: Everybody. Users from other games can sign up even if they're not defeated yet, but please be aware that doing multiple games can soon become very time consuming after 30 or so turns. It's certainly a step up from the fast turns you can do until turn 20 or so.

Info: This is going to be a TCP/IP based network game. Turns will force-host after 48 hours, or as soon as all players have handed in their turns. It will be a version 3.10 game with no mods and most things set at standard. Nations will be assigned to you randomly. You then design a pretender for the nation and play. I haven't decided on the map yet, depends on how many people will be in this one.

Depending on how fast this fills up we'll start in a couple of days, maybe in the middle of next week at the latest.

If you're interested, then please leave a reply here and maybe read through my old signup thread (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=559453) since some of the frequently asked questions are already answered there.

EDIT: This was once a Newbies only game but I see that there are already a couple of that and llama is looking for players for a new one, too, so now this game is open to all.

[lch]

These are the players: solo - C'tis (pretender in)
Nikolai - Niefelheim
Sandman - Pangaea (pretender in)
everz - Yomi (pretender in)
Cicadian - Atlantis (pretender in)
Rytek - Caelum (pretender in)
Szumo - Fomoria (pretender in)
konming - Lanka (pretender in)
Tharsonius - Sauromatia (pretender in)
Janlm - T'ien Ch'i (pretender in)
DrPraetorious - R'lyeh (pretender in)
zlefin - Tir na n'Og (pretender in)

[solo]

I'd like to sign up for this one.

[Nikolai]

I'd like in, but there's nations that I have not seen. Hoping for a human nation...

[Sandman]

I'll sign up. I've had the stuffing kicked out of me in the sophistry game, might as well sign up for something else.

[everz]

I'd like to sign up.

[Cicadian]

Count me in.

[Rytek]

I would like in on this please.

[DireAussie]

I'll join, but I dont want Niefelheim. I'd also prefer not having any other blood nation since I'm already in 2 other games as blood.

[konming]

I am interested. Hopefully this time I can get some better random nations and better luck in the game.

[Tharsonius]

I would like to join.

[Janlm]

i'm in

[DrPraetorious]

I'm also in. I assume that we can trade nations amongst ourselves if we get a nation we don't know (not a problem for me) or are already playing?

[zlefin]

i'm in, as long as my system can join the game fine. haven't played mp before.
So gotta find a test game to join just to make sure i can. or maybe i'll find a blitz today to use as test platform.

[lch]

Okay, signup is finished then, I'll roll for the nations and await your pretenders... as always at http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/563282-dp.png

[lch]

Nation assignment is finished. Yes, you can trade your nations if you find a partner interested in trading, just design a pretender for the other nation then and tell me both in the emails with your pretenders about the change (or do it here).

Do not forget to set passwords and tell them to me in the mail!

[Nikolai]

Can you tell us what map, once you decide?

[lch]

Unless there are objections I think I'll use the AomOrc map by Ballbarian once again. Then it will have been played once for every age. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It says that it's for "up to 10 land and 2 water players", too, so it's exactly what we have here.

[DrPraetorious]

Urgh, Atlantis has been doing mighty well in the water lately http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. This is gonna take some thought.

[lch]

If somebody wants to play as Fomoria or trade nations with them, go ahead, DireAussie said that he probably won't be able to play with them. Take them while they're available! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Szumo]

Hmm.. i'm about to be eliminated from two of my games, and i wanted to try out Fomoria for a while.

Count me in as Fomoria.

[Rytek]

anyone provide a link to the map?

[lch]

Cool, then send in a pretender via mail.

Does anybody not know what to do? Then just ask.

[lch]

Rytek said:
anyone provide a link to the map?


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=465570

[konming]

Well, after 11 bad events in a row - with luck 3 - in the last game, I am swearing off lucky this time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[solo]

Has an ip address and port been set yet for this game?

[lch]

Host is the same as always again and you'll get an email with all the details when the game starts. I am waiting for some pretenders, see the players list in the second post.

[lch]

Last I checked I'm still missing pretenders from Nikolai as Niefelheim, Rytek as Caelum and Janlm as T'ien Ch'i. If there's any trouble, feel free to write about it.

[Janlm]

just needed to get back from work, will upload mine very soon.

[Szumo]

There's a recently fixed version of AomOrc map. Will we be using that?

[Rytek]

Sent in pretender. Could not figure out what I was going to do.

[konming]

Do we use fixed starting position in AomOrc map or not?

[Nikolai]

No, trouble, just weekend. I will sent pretender tonight.

[Nikolai]

Sorry for delay on pretender. I have never played non-humanoid nation, and am not sure I made good God. But one lives and learns :-)

[lch]

So when do you think you can have it ready? I still haven't received anything.

[lch]

Nikolai, if you don't send me a pretender within 48 hours I fear I'll have to remove you from the game to get started.

[Sandman]

Just to add more fun to the delay, I'm moving house just now, so I may not have the Internet for a while. I'll let you know (via work or an Internet cafe) if I'm still available, otherwise just start without me, this game has been held up for too long anyway.

[lch]

Since email is a problem I have received the pretender data via PM now. I will start the game shortly. If your moving doesn't take longer than maybe half a week to a week I can play your first couple of turns for you.

[lch]

Okay, let's give you an update: Two players had their password wrong that they sent me. Using my black magic, I found out what the real passwords are - I learned that I should really check those things first. LoloMo said that he'll sub for SandMan while he's moving. And I found this nice new adventure map by Twan (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=565199) which says that it's for 10+2 players, exactly what we have here, and that it's very balanced (it is). But it has a lot of provinces, 337 of them, which means about 28 provinces per players. Quite a few of those are cave provinces (which should handicap all the nations in the same way, no Agartha here) and some have very strong defenders. Those have very nice preset sites, too, though. So I'd really like to see this adventure map in action, but I felt I'd ask if you're okay with playing on it or if you think that this map is too much for you. We don't necessarily have to do the suggested VP victory. Opinions?

[LoloMo]

Hi, I'll be subbing for Sandman.

Twan's map looks gorgeous, and the background story is pudding hehe. It's a bit big though at 28 provinces per player. It supposedly has some predetermined "monster" provinces, reminds me a bit of Heroes of Might and Magic. I would say, let's give it a try.

[Tharsonius]

Hmm, I'm not sure if I want to play such a huge map in my first MP game. But I can try it if the other players want to play it.

[Janlm]

looks cool

[Szumo]

I'm willing to try.

[solo]

Yes, let's try that map.

[lch]

Okay, then I'll use it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[lch]

Okay, the game has started. You should all have received an email from the game server. If you haven't, please tell me!

Here is the turn status page for the game: http://valhalla.techno-mage.com/stats/stats.php?game=DangerPudding
Here are some graphs of the scores for this game: http://valhalla.techno-mage.com/scores/scoresgraphs.php?game=DangerPudding

[konming]

Cave provinces do not have darkness (yet), so I do not think they pose any problems for anyone. What else am I missing?

[Tharsonius]

what happened to Caelum? Independent attack in the 2. round?

very unlucky...

[konming]

Well I guess he is patroling (and 200% tax rate), so he lost all his army as well. Now without the ability to recruit I think he is just out of the game. A very unfortunate event.

[konming]

He still has his god, a rainbow for sure. Maybe he can pull some trick out. Still I wonder what could have beaten his starting army plus 25 PD. Knights do not appear in EA.

[everz]

The group of Dark Knight, Bogus, Troll Archer and Mage? 25 PD would not be a preblem to them.

[Rytek]

Official worst start I have ever seen. I dont even have a misfortune scale. order 3 and 0 in luck. Wasnt even Bogus. Was a vampire count.

[lch]

That sucks. I can restart the game if you want (and if there are no objections). No need to lose the game like that.

[LoloMo]

No objection here.

[lch]

I have saved everything in case somebody disagrees about rehosting the turn and then hosted the second turn again. Everybody, please DELETE ALL THE GAME FILES for this game, then connect to the game again and do your turn again. If you don't delete your game files, you may risk corrupted turns.

[konming]

No objections. Please tell us when you are going to rehost. We have to redo second turn.

[Janlm]

he has already done so, i believe. and its cool with me by the way.

[DrPraetorious]

lch - the correct way to handle this is to *rename the game*, which requires nothing on the end of the participants.

I submitted a corrupted turn so please delay hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[zlefin]

i too seem to be affecetd by the turn corruption, since i hadn't been reading the thread for a few days, and was just checking in in the game client.

[lch]

Don't worry, it's going to be ok from now on. And the message about cheating is just because the different second turns may differ by an epsilon. I checked and your unexplainable wealth isn't too worrying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[konming]

It is best that resubmitting turn 2 and rehost it. I have seen some pretty wierd problems with turn corruptions. In one game, there was no problem for a while, but then all kinds of strange things happened about 20 turns later.

[Tharsonius]

again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Why not try to play it? We use a beta map, so some strange things will happen anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[lch]

konming said:
It is best that resubmitting turn 2 and rehost it. I have seen some pretty wierd problems with turn corruptions. In one game, there was no problem for a while, but then all kinds of strange things happened about 20 turns later.


I don't buy that. The turn corruption that I wrote about is that somebody submits his *.2h with the previously generated turn file, which can differ in some things from the newly generated turn file. Since we just started the game, these differences were minimal, but Tir seems to have made a little extra gold the first time, so maybe he recruited some more units in the old turn than he could do in the new one. The game detected this, canceled everything that was not possible, and gave the cheating warning. But the client has no memory apart from that, everything is in the turn file which has been corrected and cleared up by the server now.

[DrPraetorious]

Corrupted turn files can result in some weird effects, and you really should rename the game when you cancel a hosting.

But I don't see any problems moving forward.

[Rytek]

Sorry for getting my A$% kicked on turn 2! Who would have thought a vampire count could beat 25 PD Plus the starting patrolling army!

[Tharsonius]

Was his name Blade? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[everz]

Watch out C'tis! It is an uncivilized nation that attacks your undefended provinces without any declaration!

To C'tis:
I consider your well-organized attacks as a war declaration.

PS: Yomi is a "never-win" nation and I don't have any MP experience. Any good suggestion or useful information?

[DrPraetorious]

Everz - what kind of pretender did you take?

If you've got a strong bless, Dai Oni thugs are great. Even naked they can kick ***, with modest equipment (const 0 and 2 stuff) they can take other players out. You'll need to trade for items for this strat to remain viable.

Otherwise, Yomi doesn't really prosper until they've got a fair amount of research, which they have trouble with.

[solo]

Dr. P,

No need to worry or give Yomi advice, he just kicked my reptilian's rears in our big first battle!

Served me right for blundering into one if his main armies.

[everz]

Thanks to Dr.P! I'll try it!

C'tis got D9 blessed units. Glad to have such a challenging enemy as my first MP opponent.

[everz]

I lost a temple and a fort in past two turns, due to random events. This turn the vampire count visited my richest province and blocked the way from my capital to the front line. Now I'm thinking of where Bogus is. Perhaps he will visit my capital next turn.

To solo:
I guess you have organized a huge amy around your captial? Then I'm coming. I'm just tired of this game and want to see the end.

[DrPraetorious]

everz, he's trying to sap your morale, don't give in!

Wait until I emerge from beneath the waves, unconquerable, unstoppable, all-powerful, and CRUSH YOU ALL! HA HA HA HA!

P.S. DOOM!

[Rytek]

That Vampire count needs a good A$$ whipping

[solo]

everz said:
I lost a temple and a fort in past two turns, due to random events. This turn the vampire count visited my richest province and blocked the way from my capital to the front line. Now I'm thinking of where Bogus is. Perhaps he will visit my capital next turn.

To solo:
I guess you have organized a huge amy around your captial? Then I'm coming. I'm just tired of this game and want to see the end.



I guess you're right! We welcome a visit by your demons, but don't give up hope, as it is still early in the game and you still have the advantage in these early battles.

Better yet, we should make peace as we are now even and prepare together for the evil onslaught to come by Dr. P.

[LoloMo]

Oh noes! Big Fat Squid sighted off the coast!

[Rytek]

I have offered to throw myself on my sword to Lanka. This past turn he accused me of lying. His forces had me boxed in to my own valley with no where else to expand. I sent him a message attempting to negotiate a price for a few pieces of land so I could expand into the valley beyond. The next turn I saw that even beyond the land I asked to buy he had that cut off as well. So I could not expand into the valley beyond. Instead of continuing to negotiate, I attacked. I had no neutrals to expand to and Lanka had cut off all access to them. We had no peace treaty and no NAP signed. While I attacked him, I sent him a further message saying I did not want war. (which is true, who wants an early war with Lanka!) I just wanted my starting valley back so I could expand into the valley beyond. In any case, if he really thinks I broke my word he is welcome to Caelum lands. And no hard feelings what so ever.

[DrPraetorious]

It is certainly my opinion that if someone cuts of all routes for your expansion, they have violated the spirit of any NAP and you should attack them.

Likewise, if people send assassins against you or walk void spectres around in your capital or otherwise mess with you, it's war time.

Good luck - if you want him to back off, my suggestion is to raid the hell out of him. If he wants to sit a big army on your capital, let him - but take all of his remote provinces with flyers.

[Tharsonius]

looks like Lanka is going to stale again

[DrPraetorious]

Did Lanka stale again? If that was >2 consecutive stales, should he be set to AI?

[everz]

Already controlled by AI...

[Szumo]

Fomoria wishes to buy a Thistle Mace. If you would like to trade one for gems or other magic item, please contact us.

[Rytek]

ouch,that stale hurt alot.

[DrPraetorious]

That was weird. I could've sworn I sent in another turn!

Also an expensive stale http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[lch]

The game timers will be reactivated in less than 24 hours. Although this game seems to have worked well even without a timer, hosting more or less regularly every few days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Tharsonius]

great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Tharsonius]

lch said:
The game timers will be reactivated in less than 24 hours. Although this game seems to have worked well even without a timer, hosting more or less regularly every few days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



looks like the timer isn't working

[lch]

You sure about that? I reactivated it yesterday and it says about 33 hours left for me now. Or do you mean the status webpage? It will be okay after the next time it hosts.

[Tharsonius]

Ah, I was talking about the status webpage.

[Szumo]

Fomoria wants to purchase all kind of gems except fire. We can pay in fire gems, forged items or gold. Send me a PM if interested.

[Tharsonius]

We have to do something about Caelum, find a sub or set him AI. Or this game will be out of balance very fast.
Stalling since 4 turns, and now it looks like Fomoria is taking over his lands.

[lch]

I'll turn him to AI before the timer runs out, then.

[Tharsonius]

There must be some curse in the "SE-corner" of the map. Everyone is going AI there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[lch]

Lanka and Caelum ran into some kind of argument I believe.

[Tharsonius]

Yes, Lanka went AI some time after that. And Caelum was winning the war, don't know why he dropped the game. Same with Atlantis.

[Janlm]

i'm experiencing some network problems at home at the moment, so i can't connect to the game server and do my turn for the next few days it seems.

Ich is it possible for me to receive a turn file from you manually and then mail you the 2h file for the next few turns? if not i'd like to ask for a extended turn untill i can do the turn again. The same counts for the Onomancy turn by the way.

[lch]

Janlm said:
Ich is it possible for me to receive a turn file from you manually and then mail you the 2h file for the next few turns? if not i'd like to ask for a extended turn untill i can do the turn again. The same counts for the Onomancy turn by the way.


I'll use you as a guinea pig for a quick script that I threw together, then.

[DrPraetorious]

Did I do my turn yet? I think I did. If not, could I have a 24 hr extension? I'm on my Dad's laptop and have to figure out some way to get at the dominions install on my laptop in order to keep playing.

[lch]

http://valhalla.techno-mage.com/stats/stats.php?game=DangerPudding

No, you didn't do your turn yet. I'll just reset the game timer now.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, I managed to get dominions working on this machine - but now I can't connect to the server.

valhalla.techno-mage.com:1337, yes?

This is a Vista machine so I may just be [censored].

I can connect to Evermore (although I can't play a turn b/c I'm missing maps+mods.)

[lch]

Port 5445, see stats page... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Janlm]

That worked very nicely ich, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Tharsonius]

lch said:
I'll turn him to AI before the timer runs out, then.



He is still not AI and stalled again (and Fomoria took more of his lands...).

[Janlm]

ich, that page you made for me didn't seem to work, I had a stale turn..

[lch]

Sorry, I was offline and didn't make it to set him to AI in time. I wanted to do it some hours before hosting.

Janlm, I'm sorry about that, I didn't get to test it but assumed that it would work just like for PBEM. I'll have to investigate this later. Maybe I need to reset the server?

[Janlm]

it happened for onomancy too, the strange thing is that the status page said that the game had received my turn. Well i got internet back today, so everything is back to normal for me now.

[Janlm]

hmm i lost conection to the dangerpudding server while i was doing my turn.

[Janlm]

I haven't been able to send in my turn yet, I can't seem to connect. I don't know if i'm the only one or what... Ich can you delay the timer a little so i can get a chance to look at again this evening?

[lch]

The server barfed, said he couldn't write to a savegame file. Now it is clear why your orders haven't been followed last turn:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>-rw------- 1 www-data www-data 73720 2008-01-16 00:49 early_tienchi.2h</pre><hr />
The script overwrote your turn file in a way that only the web server can access it. During hosting that means that the server didn't get to read your orders and let you stale. When you tried to update the *.2h file it barfed at the write error. I have fixed this and changed the script that this does not happen again. I dare you to try the script again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Nikolai]

What happened? I was unable to connect days ("Waiting for game info") and then today I get a new, stale turn :-( I really sorry for missed trades. And missing turn sucks.

[lch]

Sorry, you should have sent me an email in case of trouble, so that I could at least reset the game timer or something. As far as I am aware, the server was operational, all others have been playing their turns just fine.

[Nikolai]

Yes, I should have. My nephew says it sometimes happens for people, and I should just try again until it works at end.

[Tharsonius]

I have the same problem right now. Perhaps because I'm the last player this turn?

[lch]

Gandalf Parker has informed me that there was a power blink and the server has been rebooted again. I'll restart the games now.

EDIT: It seems like the server shut down right while it was in the process of hosting. It hosted right now, no one staled.

[DrPraetorious]

I wish to trade for a blood stone.

I will provide (equal value) astral or water items in exchange, gems or favors, as desired.

[Nikolai]

I hang on connect. I do not know if I am last. If I am, sorry for holding game on weekend, and I hope I can make it before host.

[Tharsonius]

I have the same problem. The status page is down too.

[lch]

Maybe the server lost connection to the internet for a while. I'll reset the timers.

[everz]

Yomi has NAP-5 with Fomoria, but from turn 41, we suffered their attacks without any notice!

Szumo, lord of Fomoria, is a nasty NAP breaker! His name should be put on the blacklist. I will never play with him in future.

<font color="red">---------------------
It was proved to be my fault. I seriously apologize for my mistakes. </font>

[Janlm]

hmm, whatever happens in game should be kept in game...

[Szumo]

everz said:
Yomi has NAP-5 with Fomoria, but from turn 41, we suffered their attacks without any notice!

Szumo, lord of Fomoria, is a nasty NAP breaker! His name should be put on the blacklist. I will never play with him in future.



That's a lie, there never was a NAP between our nations.
I did propose you one a while ago, but you never agreed to it or even acknowledged my messages.

[everz]

Give me a reason why I should lie? I can get nothing by lying. I'm just telling the truth. You may have various reasons like you haven't received response, but I did reply your message and accepted that NAP-5.

It's just a game and I don't want to waste time arguing. From now on I'll save screen shot of every message in case something similar happens in future.

Now I understand why I'm only a newbie and after this I'm going to be a little more "experienced".

<font color="red"> ---------------------
It was proved to be my fault. I seriously apologize for my mistakes. </font>

[Szumo]

everz said:
Give me a reason why I should lie? I can get nothing by lying. I'm just telling the truth. You may have various reasons like you haven't received response, but I did reply your message and accepted that NAP-5.

It's just a game and I don't want to waste time arguing. From now on I'll save screen shot of every message in case something similar happens in future.

Now I understand why I'm only a newbie and after this I'm going to be a little more "experienced".



Various reasons for not receiving response? Like what exactly? Give me a date you say you sent one, i store every private message i get on this forum and backup every turn of the game and received nothing accepting NAP from you.
If you merely wanted to accept it but forgot to actually send the message, please have the courage to admit and stop blaming other people for your mistake.

[everz]

Good! You have backup! Check messages after 01/12/08 and your recent 10 turns. You will know the truth. It was sent out one turn before or after Ctis was cleared.

<font color="red"> ---------------------
It was proved to be my fault. I seriously apologize for my mistakes. </font>

[Nikolai]

Evers, losing message on Dominions III is very easy. In another game, I tried sending damn ring to ally for three turns - I had ring, I wanted to send it, and I was clearing messages, starting turn again, and what not. Only on third turn I send it.

It is likely this happened. This game is bad at letting you review messages in game. Better use forum's system.

[Nikolai]

Question: Do Victory Points play role in this game? Anything at all?

[Szumo]

Everz: I did check. No message from you.

Nikolai: as far as i know, they will help spread the dominion of province owner (like a temple) and that's all.

[lch]

We have updated to Dominions pi, you'll have to install the update by next time the game hosts. Be aware that the graphs from previous turns will vanish.

P.S.: I could verify any claims, but I guess that's beside the point.
P.P.S.: One Victory Point raises your Dominion by 1, the same as four temples would do.

[Nikolai]

What is Dominions PI? Patch 3.14?

[Janlm]

I would guess so, yeah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[everz]

Szumo said:
Everz: I did check. No message from you.

Nikolai: as far as i know, they will help spread the dominion of province owner (like a temple) and that's all.



You are an experienced player and I think it is unnecessary for you to lie. And after further thinking, I think it is also unnecessary for you to break NAPs. So I'd like to trust your backups. There must be some mistakes made by myself.

Then it seems it is completely my fault. I seriously apologize for my mistakes. It's indeliberate.

[DrPraetorious]

Grrr.... someone is dropping plagues on my capital. I'd planned to wait before going on land, but this changes the situation greatly.

[Nikolai]

Hey, not long before host, and no one has taken turn. Are we all engaged in crazy diplomacy?

Lets just declare an East/West war, and fight it out :-)

[Janlm]

hey

i'm a little hard pressed on time this turn, and i'm not sure i can make the deadline tomorrow. Can i get a few hours delay ich? not much, just some 8 hours or so.

[lch]

No problem, I just restarted the timer. If you want to make sure that I notice things like this, you should send me a PM or email aswell the next time, that has a greater chance to catch my attention.

[Nikolai]

I think stopping timer for weekend is nice in general. Just as long there is regular schedule during weekdays.

[Szumo]

Fomoria would like to purchase Skull of Fire. Send me a message if you can forge it and we'll talk, i can forge some interesting stuff in exchange, i believe.

[Nikolai]

Question to all players, but especially host:

Do we allow use of shortlisted bug "Cast battlefield enchantment and retreat mage"? This makes enchantment last until all troops are gone. Some combinations of enchantment are unbeatable.

I am asking because it was just used on me in other game, which I am quitting. I would like to know exact interpretation of rules in this game.

Two scenarios:

1. Two units on field. One has "Staff of Storms", casts "Wrathful Skies", and retreats. Other stays and fight.

2. Two units on field. One casts "Mist of Deception" and retreats. Other has "Staff of Storms", casts "Wrathful Skies", and retreats.

Do we allow either? My preference is:

"No" on 1, "No" on 2.

[Tharsonius]

Anyone else has problems with the server?
When I try to get the turn, the game is freezing at the "waiting for game info" window.

[vfb]

This is a problem that has popped up before in several network games.

You can try playing windowed instead of full screen. Start the game and connect, and get stuck on "Getting game info".

Do not close the window!

Start another instance of the game in a new window. This new instance of the game should connect okay.

[Tharsonius]

vfb said:
This is a problem that has popped up before in several network games.

You can try playing windowed instead of full screen. Start the game and connect, and get stuck on "Getting game info".

Do not close the window!

Start another instance of the game in a new window. This new instance of the game should connect okay.



Thanks!

[lch]

Nikolai said:
Question to all players, but especially host: ...


I think that's what the players have to decide among themselves. Personally I'm tempted to say that if it isn't on the bug thread page, it isn't a bug, and you can use it.

[Nikolai]

It is actually on short bug list. But many people use it. As I said, it was used against me in 'War of Dominion'... and I want to know what goes in this game.

I have reached point where I can pull this trick myself. I would like us to vote if is allowed or not. I do not want to have my army wiped, and be told 'Oh, I thought it was OK'

[LoloMo]

I vote that you can not order any mage casting battlefield wide enchantments to retreat unless it's the sixth order (very last one). So no returning spell, only retreat.

[Janlm]

well if it is on the bug list, ofcourse it shouldn't be used. No reason to make it such a big deal...

[Nikolai]

I have announcement.

This weekend, Tuidjy is taking over Jotunheim. He is my nephew, he will read all messages that we have exchanged, and he promises to honor all treaties I have made. I know some players do not think treaties bind subs, but I ask you to consider holding to them. I honestly believe that all my treaties are good for both parties...

In any case, I will make one more anouncement, when he take nation.

[lch]

everz / Yomi has been staling the last 2 turns and will now be set to AI by me. Please do so yourself in case you're losing and don't want to play it out until the end.

[everz]

I was just about to set Yomi to AI, but seems I'm a little bit late. Sorry for wasting you guys' time. Have fun!

[DrPraetorious]

I have a rather difficult weekend with work I need to do - any chance we could get a 24h extension on the next turn?

[Tuidjy]

Hello guys...

I am about to take over Nick's Niefelheim. With the 24 hour delay, I may actually
end up taking the very next turn. I would like to bring the recently cast Arcane
Nexus to your attention. Now, in most games I have been, Arcane Nexus has always
been a way for one player to say "I feel I can take all of you at once". I know
that whenever I have cast it, that was the way I felt... In any case, in a game
this big, with six healthy nations and 600+ in gem income, AN will pull at least
100 pearls per turn. Are we going to let the spell stand?

Please, if someone is already organizing a Dispel fueled by collectively contributed gems, let me know.

[lch]

DrPraetorious said:
I have a rather difficult weekend with work I need to do - any chance we could get a 24h extension on the next turn?


I have reset the server now, that should do the trick?

In other news, Yomi has not been set AI as I commanded it to. And it's still reported as staling (only) two turns. Very strange. Maybe that has to do with everz checking on the game again? Now I'm setting them to AI again this turn...

[everz]

That's strange...I haven't connected the server since I saw your post here. Someone else logged in?

However I'm going to set Yomi to AI now, by meself.

[Janlm]

I can't seem to connect to the server, and there is 1 hour and 30 minuttes left untill the next hosting according to the status page..

[Szumo]

Server must have been reset recently, i've uploaded my turn today and it showed 30 hours till next hosting so page is out of sync.

[lch]

http://www.homestarrunner.com/systemisdown.html

[lch]

Server has been updated to fix security issues. It's back now, the games are on again and the timers have been reset. For the stats pages, too.

[Tharsonius]

1. When do you patch to 3.15?

2. Can we change the host interval to 72h?

[Szumo]

I 2nd both of those questions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[lch]

Tharsonius said:
1. When do you patch to 3.15?


It is patched now.


Tharsonius said:
2. Can we change the host interval to 72h?


Okay. There don't seem to be any objections here.

[Tuidjy]

This has to be the quietest game in which I've been. I hope it's not because
everyone else is busy coordinate their attack on my poor giants.

[Tuidjy]

What the Hell happened? From where I stand, it looked as if Sauromatia was
one of the contenders in this game. Tons of blood stones, some of the best
globals, huge armies of vampires, demon knights and major demons. Today,
Sauromatia is an AI, and seems to have gone on the attack...

Why didn't anyone try to look for a sub? Now the game is really messed up.

[Janlm]

I didn't know sauromatia had left the game...?

[lch]

Did that happen on this turn? I could do a rollback. Provided you DO find a replacement player for Sauromatia.

[lch]

I looked it up, they went AI on 2008-03-10 at 06:22, so over a week ago. No luck here, I'm afraid.

[Tuidjy]

The timer is off. Is there a reason?

[Szumo]

Easter, i'd guess.

I'll need to look for a substitute soon myself, as i'm going on vacation next week.

[Tuidjy]

Hmm... I just got an invitation to celebrate Easter Sunday... on the 27th of April.
I knew that different Christian churches celebrate on different days, but I had no
idea that the dates could be off by a month or more.

[Szumo]

Roman catholic and Russian Orthodox churches have about a month difference - because one uses Gregorian (standard) calendar and the other still uses Julian one. No idea what various protestants use, though i'd suspect most of them use Gregorian.

If you have invitation for end of April, i'd suspect it to be Orthodox holiday.

[Tuidjy]

Yeah, it is the Eastern Orthodox Eastern - not just for Russians, though.
Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks, at the very least. And speaking of more
important religious matters, you are the last one who has not taken his turn.
I especially resent waiting, because I am not doing anything interesting this
or next turn, unless someone attacks me.

[Szumo]

I've started doing my turn as soon as i got home http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
It has hosted now.

[Tuidjy]

ARGGH! Ok, whoever wished my Orb of Atlantis away, and drowned my Jarl(DD).
You had to go and make my turn interesting, didn't you?

Now, lets apply some logic here... who may want the orb this badly, and what
would they use it for? Who may be planning an underwater invasion? Hmm...

[lch]

Tuidjy said:
ARGGH! Ok, whoever wished my Orb of Atlantis away, and drowned my Jarl(DD).


Hmm, who is the premium astral nation and interested in defending its borders? I assume it was a rhetorical question, anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Timer was indeed off during easter, but now it's back on!

[Szumo]

Corwin will be taking over (permanently) Fomoria, as i'm going on vacation.

[lch]

Then tell him to send me his email address via PM so I can send the turn notification mails to him instead of you.

[Corwin]

Greetings.

I thought I should post here and introduce myself. I am Corwin, new heir to Fomoria throne.

It looks like I have very big shoes to fill. I will try not to make too much of a mess out of Fomoria nation. I am glad that you are on the long host guys, should make things somewhat easier to manage.

Needless to say I will honor all Fomoria's current pacts and agreements. If any of you guys have any diplomacy, trade or other proposals please send me PMs. Also if anybody feels that there is something about the current situation in the game that I should know, please tell me in PM, I will certainly appreciate any additional info.

Finally since I have never played Fomoria before and since I have huge end-game Empire to become familiar with (and which is currently in peace as far as I can tell), it would be nice if I could get a turn or two of invasion-free time so I could get my stuff together. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (this is just a request, you can do whatever you like of course)

[DrPraetorious]

FWIW, I did not wish for the orb of atlantis. If I were going to wish for an artifact, I'd wish for something good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Tuidjy]

I just read this thread from beginning to end, and here is the impression I am
left with:

Mists of Deception + Battlefield Enchantment + Retreat is NOT allowed. Battlefield
Enchantment + Retreat is allowed, but ONLY if you retreat on the sixth turn.

Did I get it right?

[LoloMo]

Mists of Deception + Battlefield Enchantment + Retreat on the sixth turn should be allowed, as there is no way to check if the AI retreated the mage or the mage was scripted to retreat.

[lch]

Tuidjy said:
Battlefield Enchantment + Retreat is allowed, but ONLY if you retreat on the sixth turn.


I'd say that this conforms with MP etiquette.

As for Mists of Deception, the heated discussion elsewhere makes it sound like the spell is broken and the only solution is to ban it altogether, but I don't want to ban spells myself.

[LoloMo]

There are only a few of us, and I don't think anyone is at war, so should be easy to come to a consensus. I'll start the ball rolling. Please vote for one of the following.

1. Ban Mists of Deception altogether. No scripting of this spell or use of any artifact that casts this.

2. Ban MoD + any Battlefied Enchantment in combination (MoD can not be used with any kind of BE, whether scripted or from artifact effects or from creature effects).

3. Ban only MoD + any BE + scripted retreat within 5 turns (retreat allowed on 6th turn).

4. No restrictions on MoD.

My vote is for any of the 4 choices, I can work with whatever rule you guys wish to put in place.

[Tuidjy]

The problem is that after two days of testing focused on this, I still have
found no way to effectively counter this spell. Once it's cast, either the
caster will be killed or the enemy will rout - the BE only adds casualties
to the loss of the battle. It's as simple as that.

If this was the beginning of the game, I'd say ban it altogether. But now
it may appear that we would be unfairly hurting the two air nations left:
Fomoria and Tir-Na-Nog. But I also think that everyone else can easily
cast it. After all, I have about 10 air domes up. Do the math.

Anyway - my vote is to ban MoD as broadly as possible.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm reluctant to ban stuff based on hearsay, or at this stage of the game, but I've never actually been hit with the MoD trick (although I think people have tried,) so I'll abstain.

[zlefin]

hmm, i dunno.
while having air options is nice, i don't really need MoD.
the simplest way to avoid issues is to just ban MoD, cuz i know i wanna use wrathful skies.

Alternatively, since we're all at peace, we could just call the game and name ourselves all winners http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif and/or agree to divvy up places based on positioning or something.
like by province count, or we can argue based on other factors.

[Corwin]

I suggest that we ban Mist of Deception + caster retreat (or teleport away) combo. I see no need to do more than that, since if caster is killed Mist of Deception is finished, and if caster is not scripted to retreat, he can always be killed by the enemy.

It will hurt Fomoria since we have very strong Air mages, but I have no interest in using a potential exploit or a bug.

[DrPraetorious]

On the subject of friendship - we beneath the waves love all you adorable land-dwellers, and will be happy to forge stuff at a modest profit.

Obviously no artifacts, since those are all taken' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Tuidjy]

Guys,

It seems that I am stuck on Catalina until tomorrow shuttle.
Sorry for the delay, but can you delay the host until about
Monday midnight on the West Coast?

I am not even sure when the hosting time falls...

[Corwin]

Tuidjy said:


I am not even sure when the hosting time falls...



It is currently schedulled to happen around 2PM on Monday.

[Janlm]

you should send a pm to ich about it, to be sure he reads the request.

[lch]

Ok, resetting the timer.

[Corwin]

lch said:
Ok, resetting the timer.



Is Sandman still playing Pangaea? He hasn't posted on this forum since signing up for this game 3+ month ago. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Basicaly I need to contact Pangaea player. I'll send PM to Sandman, but if someone else is in charge of that nation - please contact me.

Thanks,
Corwin

P.S. Is it just me or this game is very quiet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[LoloMo]

I'm in charge of Pangaea since turn 1!

[lch]

Sandman pulled off submitting a pretender and then not playing with the nation, but that isn't the only time this happened. LoloMo has thankfully agreed to take over when I bugged him enough. The status page, though only occasionally updated when I remember it, should give the most accurate list who plays what nation.

[Corwin]

Got it, thank you.

[Corwin]

I just had a replay bug in at least one of my battles this turn. Has anybody else experienced it in this game?

[LoloMo]

Nope, haven't encountered it in this game.

[Tuidjy]

Well, I guess I lost this game. Congrats to whoever managed to convince
everyone that I am the one to beat. Now I have three nations arrayed against
me, the other two players will not talk to me, and everyone believes that
I have more blood stones (possible) and clams (very unlikely) than everyone else.

Anyhow. I will not attack anyone first. I hope that the neutral players will
at some point jump on Fomoria and R'lyeh, when they become convinced that
those two are becoming unstoppable. Until then, I will play on the defensive.
I will not cast any spells that kill population, mostly because I do not want
to ruin the game, and hope that once you guys reduce me to nothing of consequence,
you leave me around to watch. Yes, that includes Armageddon, which would do
wonders for balancing this game.

And one more thing. I believe that using MoD in ANY way is abuse. If it is ever
used against me, and I have to retreat after routing everyone else, I will abuse
anything I can against anyone who is at war with me at the time.

[Corwin]

Hmmm. I don't have much personal experience with MoD, but it does seem to be somewhat cheesy or bugged, based upon what I've read on the forum.

As the most air-heavy nation from those who remain in game, I am fine with not using MoD.

I have a question though - that MoD bug only affects MoD spell itself, not "Dance of Morrigans", correct?

[Tuidjy]

Last time I tried it, Dance of the Morrigans worked once once per game. Or
was it once per round? In any case, it was buggy in the other direction - it
was not worth casting.

By the way, at this time, every nation is an air nation. You, Tien Chi and
Tir-Na-Nog started as air nations, R'lyeh has many Fomorian Kings (no idea
whether they are wished for or enslaved), Pangaea has Tartarians and I have
a few sorceresses of my own, to complement my air randoms.

[Corwin]

Tuidjy said:
Last time I tried it, Dance of the Morrigans worked once once per game. Or
was it once per round? In any case, it was buggy in the other direction - it
was not worth casting.

By the way, at this time, every nation is an air nation. You, Tien Chi and
Tir-Na-Nog started as air nations, R'lyeh has many Fomorian Kings (no idea
whether they are wished for or enslaved), Pangaea has Tartarians and I have
a few sorceresses of my own, to complement my air randoms.



Ok, thank you.

As for air mages - you are right but what I meant is that only me and TNN have national lvl3-4 air mages. In any case, as I said I am fine with not using MoD.

[Tuidjy]

I have lost the diplomacy game, and I do not think that I'll be able to withstand
three nations at the same time, not when one is Corwin's Fomoria. From now on,
my board posts will be in character, which means that they may be obnoxious,
deliberately deceptive, but will probably stop short of being outright lies.
In any case, I intend to have fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Note that I still stand by my personal messages. I won't be lying there. I
do not see myself sending many, either. Being ignored is annoying.

================================================== ============================

Please, help the peaceful inhabitants of Niefelheim!

A few turns after the attack from Tien Chi, the nations of R'lyeh and Fomoria
have launched a coordinated assault on the peaceful folks of Neifelheim. Many
of our castles have been besieged, and huge number of provinces taken over.
While we can boast of some successes against R'lyeh and Tien Chi, Fomoria's
artifact equipped SCs have torn a bloody path through Neifelheim's armies,
without suffering a single casualty.

It is probably too late for our nation. But those of you have not aligned with
Fomoria still have a chance to remain relevant. Even if you believe that Niefel
has a large quantity of blood stones, ask yourself: how does it compare against Formoria?

In gold and gem income, in provinces and in dominion, Fomoria is far ahead of
us. As we cannot prevent them from taking our uncastled provinces, the gem
income difference will soon surpass the income we have from blood stones. Add
this to the fact that their Gift of Health is allowing them to field Tartarian
supercombatants by the cartload, and that their Harvester is gathering 20-30
death gems per turn. We do not understand how anyone can think we are more of a
danger than Fomoria. Add Niefelheim's assets to Fomoria's - can you compete?

This is all about the damn Forge of the Ancients. We cast it, because everyone
was concerned about R'lyeh, but claimed to be unable to go after them underwater.
Well, Niefel is not underwater, and I guess we are paying for this. But when all
is said and done, we had to empower an independant mage to start forging stones,
and our fledging clam forging is very limited (by the number of forgers, not by
the availability of gems) For all I know, Fomoria has used its overwhelming gem
income advantage to summon Lamia Queens, and far surpasses our three clams per turn.

[Corwin]

Tuidjy said:
I have lost the diplomacy game, and I do not think that I'll be able to withstand
three nations at the same time, not when one is Corwin's Fomoria. From now on,
my board posts will be in character, which means that they may be obnoxious,
deliberately deceptive, but will probably stop short of being outright lies.
In any case, I intend to have fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Note that I still stand by my personal messages. I won't be lying there. I
do not see myself sending many, either. Being ignored is annoying.

================================================== ============================

Please, help the peaceful inhabitants of Niefelheim!

A few turns after the attack from Tien Chi, the nations of R'lyeh and Fomoria
have launched a coordinated assault on the peaceful folks of Neifelheim. Many
of our castles have been besieged, and huge number of provinces taken over.
While we can boast of some successes against R'lyeh and Tien Chi, Fomoria's
artifact equipped SCs have torn a bloody path through Neifelheim's armies,
without suffering a single casualty.

It is probably too late for our nation. But those of you have not aligned with
Fomoria still have a chance to remain relevant. Even if you believe that Niefel
has a large quantity of blood stones, ask yourself: how does it compare against Formoria?

In gold and gem income, in provinces and in dominion, Fomoria is far ahead of
us. As we cannot prevent them from taking our uncastled provinces, the gem
income difference will soon surpass the income we have from blood stones. Add
this to the fact that their Gift of Health is allowing them to field Tartarian
supercombatants by the cartload, and that their Harvester is gathering 20-30
death gems per turn. We do not understand how anyone can think we are more of a
danger than Fomoria. Add Niefelheim's assets to Fomoria's - can you compete?

This is all about the damn Forge of the Ancients. We cast it, because everyone
was concerned about R'lyeh, but claimed to be unable to go after them underwater.
Well, Niefel is not underwater, and I guess we are paying for this. But when all
is said and done, we had to empower an independant mage to start forging stones,
and our fledging clam forging is very limited (by the number of forgers, not by
the availability of gems) For all I know, Fomoria has used its overwhelming gem
income advantage to summon Lamia Queens, and far surpasses our three clams per turn.



Well said, Lord of Giants. By the holy decree of the divine ruler of Fomoria, a copy of this Niefelheim's proclomation will be sent to our advance troops, who are currently preparing for Giants counterattack. It should certainly boost their morale, by convincing them that they are in fact invincible, at least according to their silver-tongued opponent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I will not speak about Nifelheim strength or R'lyeh treasury - I am not privy to their High Councils. But I can speak for my own nation. I officially declare that Fomoria does not have a single clam. And the only Blood stones that we have are 4 stones that we have captured from Saurumatia'a AI over the last few turns. We do not have a single mage capable of making these stones. We also do not have a single Lamia Queen. Unlike other major nations, who can afford casting and dispelling 500+ gems global enchantments, Fomoria has to rely sorely on our magic sites income.

So we have do respectfully disagree with all these statements made by the noble Niefelheim Lord regarding our nation and our gem income.

Corwin, Lord of Fomoria

[Janlm]

The attack from Tien Chi? As I recall it, it was niefelheim that decided to make any questions of alliances easier on us by declaring war.

However you have our promise that the people of whatever province of niefelheim we may conquer will be treated with utmost respect. There will not be much looting or unnecesary violence of any kind.

[DrPraetorious]

We promise the exact opposite! In your lands, when we conquer them, the subjugated giants will be forced to toil needlessly as part of our unspeakable mental experiments.

Those who do not work fast enough - or maybe those who work too fast, just to mix it up - will be paralyzed and slowly eaten, fully aware but unable to move! Also, we will have cappucino machines in all our temples and our religion will be much more fun than yours, everyone will say so because we will brainwash them.

[Tuidjy]

&gt; The attack from Tien Chi? As I recall it, it was niefelheim that decided to
&gt; make any questions of alliances easier on us by declaring war

We do not remember declaring war. We do remember withdrawing from a NAP,
because, in our opinion, you were acting in bad faith by building an
uninterrupted wall of temples on our border, at a time where we were in
a real danger of dominion death, and your dominion was already one province
deep into our lands. And we did not attack when the NAP expired. You did,
a number of turns later, without a declaration of war.

&gt; However you have our promise that the people of whatever province of
&gt; niefelheim we may conquer will be treated with utmost respect. There will
&gt; not be much looting or unnecesary violence of any kind.

Of course not. Do you really think you will have time for looting? You
really believe that you will be able to stand against Fomoria or R'lyeh once
they have beaten us? I hope we are still around to laugh at you by the time
your turn comes.

&gt; Also, we will have cappucino machines in all our temples.

Hot drinks? Is there nothing you'll stop at? That's it. Between liars
and hot drink lovers, and fellow giants that are just better at conquering lands
than we are, is there a wonder we do better against Tien Chi and R'lyeh that
against Fomoria?

Come on, Fomoria, say something to upset us, so that we give you some fight!

[Corwin]

Tuidjy said:
&gt; The attack from Tien Chi? As I recall it, it was niefelheim that decided to
&gt; make any questions of alliances easier on us by declaring war

We do not remember declaring war. We do remember withdrawing from a NAP,
because, in our opinion, you were acting in bad faith by building an
uninterrupted wall of temples on our border, at a time where we were in
a real danger of dominion death, and your dominion was already one province
deep into our lands. And we did not attack when the NAP expired. You did,
a number of turns later, without a declaration of war.

&gt; However you have our promise that the people of whatever province of
&gt; niefelheim we may conquer will be treated with utmost respect. There will
&gt; not be much looting or unnecesary violence of any kind.

Of course not. Do you really think you will have time for looting? You
really believe that you will be able to stand against Fomoria or R'lyeh once
they have beaten us? I hope we are still around to laugh at you by the time
your turn comes.

&gt; Also, we will have cappucino machines in all our temples.

Hot drinks? Is there nothing you'll stop at? That's it. Between liars
and hot drink lovers, and fellow giants that are just better at conquering lands
than we are, is there a wonder we do better against Tien Chi and R'lyeh that
against Fomoria?

Come on, Fomoria, say something to upset us, so that we give you some fight!



Hmmm. Well, if you insist... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

I think I could disclose the real reason behind our attack on Niefelheim this turn. All this talk about 500+ earth gem Forge of Ancients, and massive blood stones and clamming operation of Giants is just a pretend for unwashed masses in our nation, as well as arguments for our neighbors. Don't get me wrong - all this is true, but it's nothing compared to the real reason for this war.

In the heart of our war against our giant cousins is a breeding program. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

You see, after unsuccessfully trying for many generations to get rid of the dread Curse that is affecting our nation, the High Council of Fomoria was getting desperate. They have tried dreadful magic rituals, forbidden alchemy of Ancients, blood sacrifices of tens of thousands strong - nothing worked. And then, just few years ago, our divine Lord had come up with a wonderful idea.

If we can't break the Curse, perhaps we can fool it by mixing our blood with other similar race. Top secret experiments performed on Giants's prisoners have confirmed - our nations can produce offspring. And these half-breeds were indeed free of the Curse! What even better, these half giants half fomorians can breed with native fomorian, and their offspring is also unCursed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Apparently this Curse only affects 100% pure Fomorian, even small fraction of other blood will make person immune to the Curse effects.

After that stunning discovery the fate of Giants was sealed. We are going to conquer your race, than we are going to select 10.000 strong and healthy Giants females. The rest of the population will be exterminated, to prevent possible future uprisings. Selected females will be brainwashed and transferred to breeding farms. There they will be impregnated by Fomorian males, and gave birth to the offspring, after which they will be impregnated again, et cetera. The Giants is a strong race, so our scinetists have estimated that each female will be able to give birth to 20-30 halfbreeds before her body would fail.

So you see, it's a pity that your race must die, but in doing so it will save our own race. In other words at the end it will be for a greater good. I am sure you will apprecaite it.

________________________________________________

(out of character) Was it upsetting enough, comparable to capuchino machines? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Corwin]

Ouch.

Hmmm, perhaps I should keep my mouth shut about breeding program earlier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Nifelheim's counterattack was very effective. He teleported more than half dozen tartarians and his pretender, all equiped with powerful battle gear, on top of many uncastled provinces that I have raided last turn.

In all but one province he won battles easily, since my tartarians were scripted to cast returning or retreat.

But I have prepared nice ambush for him in one province, teleporting two of my best tartarians there to add to the one HOF tartarian who already was there. Together my three tartarians were scripted to ambush and destroy whatever counterattack team Niefelheim would send against them.


Well, the ambush had worked, all right. They caugth up the great Seraph of Fire, Uril. (Seraph! In service of Niefelheim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif Got it?)

7F, 8S, 5A, equiped with 2 unique artifacts - Mage Bane and Solar Brilliance.
The bloody thing had destroyed my kickass tartarians, all three of them, without breaking a sweat.

All I can say - I am glad I have decided to go after giants now and not later.


Well played Niefelheim. I will have to be more carefull in the future.

[Tuidjy]

Actually, he was sent to negotiate peace, and the mage slayer was meant to
be tribute, but you had to go and cast Rage at him.

By the way, what happened to our agreement that we will be making war on
each other, not on the peasant population? You are killing off the
peasantry in Port Hexx, Trisia, Pharaexa country. Stop it, or we assure
you, we have plenty of population killer magic of our own.

[zlefin]

please delay the turn processing, it may be needed.
this mornjing when i went to do my turn dominions seems to be freezing at the waiting for game info stage when you log on.

This isn't like the old problem of that, where if you opened a second copy of dominions that one would work.
second copy is freezing just the same.
Logging in worked fine yesterday or the day before (i forget which) when i looked around to plan.

And i suspect i'm gonna be attaccked soon so i don't wanna stale another turn.

[DrPraetorious]

I can't log in either. I assume that the server is down.

[lch]

The game server didn't crash (to the command line), but froze up, dunno why. I have restarted it now.

[Tuidjy]

I would like to have the clock stopped, and that we look for replacements for
Tien Chi and Pangaea. It seems to me that we are getting too many stales.

[zlefin]

pangaea staled? they just ended the nap though; why end a nap then stale?
my offer to just call the game and let Ich decide who the winner is by looking at everyone's positions stands http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Corwin]

C'mon, the fun is just about to start. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif We are going to have some huge and intersting battles ahead of us.

Fomoria currently has the most advantage in all grpahs. But Giants have proven to be a tough nut to crack, and they have massive gem producing items economy and the Forge.

To Truidji: It's a pity that Tien Chi has stalled, but it is actually very benefitial to you, since now you only have two active oppoennts to deal with. Which is ok with me.

Personally I am fine with pausing the game and looking for new subs, as long as it would not take forever.

Just my two cents

-Corwin

[Tuidjy]

I think this game is very interesting, but it will be less so if the small
nations get out of it. An alliance of TNN, TC and Pangea could take the
winner of the R'lyeh+Fomoria vs Niefelheim war... My only problem with TC
was the damn wall of temples. I could make peace with them.

Can we hear from the players who stalled? Would they object to giving the nation
to someone else?

[LoloMo]

I'm still in the game!

[Corwin]

Guys, it looks like I won't be able to continue the game anymore. My project at work has been taking increasengly large ammount of time, I have been barely making my turns for the last few turns without stalling - sometimes uploading turns few minutes before the host.

Another major factor is that frankly I think Giants have won this game. I can play cat and mouse game with them for the next 50 turns, but time is working for them due to their Forge of Ancients. According to R'leyh it was casted with 500+ earth gems, so it can't realistically be dispelled - not with my earth income at least.

Giants also have Chalice and they have at least 4 times more SCs that my nation has. And their Tartarians can be equiped almost for free. Those thay I have encountered so far routinely spot things like Rings of Wizardly, et cetera.

Last but not least, Giants have at least 2 Serpahs that they have wished for, and these things eat regular tartarians for breakfast. Finally Giants have all best battle artifacts, including Gate Stone, Mage Bane, Astral Boots, et cetera.

I have enough power to stall Giants for a very long time, but stalling will only work to their advantage. I knew I had to attack or abandon any hope of wining this war. Last turn I have thrown many of my best troops against 3 Giants castles, demolishing their walls in one turn, while blocking nearby castles to prevent non-teleporting reinforcements. I was hoping that when facing 3 sudden storms at the same time Giants will have to split their forces,so I would be able to get least one of these castle

It was not the case. Giants have repelled all three atempts, killing a lot of my troops and SCs in the process.

Perhaps there is a chance that giants could still be stopped, if all other nations would act together against them and do it in good coordination.

I did my best to form such coalition, but while the relults looked good on paper (3 major races against Giants), in reality I don't think R'leyh and Tine Chi were very active in this war, for whatever reasons. They have distructed Giants a little, but not much. I have expected R'lyeh to at least kick Giants out of the water by now, but alas, it did not happen.

I am not sure what Pangeya up to, I was hoping they will join the coalition, as they have hinted they might, but I haven't seen them fighing giants. TNN is just silent, he has not replied to any of my messages.

All in all, considering that I am in severe time crunch, and considering the situation in the game, I think the future of this game is determined - Giants have won.

They have played well, I commend their leader. Forge and "turtling" is not very exciting tactic but it is very efficient, I give them that. And Tuidji have proven to be a very good tactician and strategist, my compliments.

I have not lost a Dom3 game in a long time, but I have do admit my defeat in this one, even though I have only been playing it as a sub for the last 10 turns. I wish I would have been in this game from the beginning, I can't help but think that I would have planned things differently. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif Oh well...

Anyway, that's just my personal vision of the situation in the game. If you guys feel that there is still some hope left you may put the game on pause and look for another sub. Fomoria still has enough forces left to repell any Giants attmepts to take my castles and raid my lands for a very long time. But I don't think anything I can do at this point will affect the final outcome.

[Tuidjy]

The giants have absolutely no interest in raiding Fomoria, or trying to take over
their castles. We are, and remain peaceful. If you consider yourself chastised,
and apologize for your aggression and your mistreatment of our peasantry, we will
gladly sign a peace treaty.

After all, we still have to kick R'lyeh out of the water... we cannot allow these
hot drink lovers easy access to the materials for their abominable practices.

And frankly, you underestimate your alliance. Tien Chi just killed one of our
best equipped commanders, and captured the Astral Boots and the Unquenched Sword.
Well, that happened because he did not manage to kill off the hundreds of
unconscious enemies before union rules just popped him into inexistance, but hey,
he's still dead, and the artifacts gone.

As for R'lyeh, they have been fighting us. He did attack us everywhere he could,
and is besieging a castle of ours as we speak. It's just that his Pretender
got turned into sushi, and our Pretender borrowed his castle cracking troops for a
pet project of his, but forgot that most could not breath air.

[Corwin]

Tuidjy said:
The giants have absolutely no interest in raiding Fomoria, or trying to take over
their castles. We are, and remain peaceful. If you consider yourself chastised,
and apologize for your aggression and your mistreatment of our peasantry, we will
gladly sign a peace treaty.

After all, we still have to kick R'lyeh out of the water... we cannot allow these
hot drink lovers easy access to the materials for their abominable practices.

And frankly, you underestimate your alliance. Tien Chi just killed one of our
best equipped commanders, and captured the Astral Boots and the Unquenched Sword.
Well, that happened because he did not manage to kill off the hundreds of
unconscious enemies before union rules just popped him into inexistance, but hey,
he's still dead, and the artifacts gone.

As for R'lyeh, they have been fighting us. He did attack us everywhere he could,
and is besieging a castle of ours as we speak. It's just that his Pretender
got turned into sushi, and our Pretender borrowed his castle cracking troops for a
pet project of his, but forgot that most could not breath air.



I didn't see any of these battles with R'leh and Tien Chi, but I will take your word for it. But no many provinces have changed hands in these wars - in fact I think you were gaining provinces on the other fronts.

As for appologizing for my agression - you can't be serious. The recent experience just proves that I was absolutely right to attack you, and so are Tien Chi and R'lyeh. If anything I regret that I haven't done it earlier - but with Sauromatian AI chewing my *** I was not really in position to fight 2 fronts war earlier. I also should not buy your clever propoganda about how weak you are, and agree not to cast population killing spells. Blanketing your entire territory with Black Plagues would go some way toward undercutting your income. Although most likely it would not make much difference at that point - with Forge and mountains of clams/stones you are on gem economy anyway.


All in all, you were simply too strong and too dangerious to be left alone, and we were too late to stop you. And even in its Dom3 version, Forge is one of the two "I won" Global, especially in the long game on the large map, such as ours. Whoever casts this spell should expect to take on the world and win. (just like you did)

[Drake49]

I would be willing to sub for you....

primarily because I want to see what another player uses for end-game. I have created my own end-game wierdness that seems to be doing well in the only end-game I am in. I'm not talking Alexander, I have one other MP game that is on Turn 86 and I have a decent chance of winning, despite one major desperate attempt to sabotage myself at the last second.

Anyway, I am familiar with basic end-game tactics, Ghost Riders, Send Horror, Tartinians, Forge(though it is my ally, and my primary source of confidence in the other game), Wish, teleport/stealth raiders, and the extreme difficulty of castle storming.

I would also be willing to temp for a week and give it back to you.

[Tuidjy]

Drake49, I want to warn you that I will answer any use of Mists of Deception
by starting to use every cheat or exploit I know. If you would like an
explanation I'd gladly give it to you.

Otherwise, welcome to the war. I think that Corwin's lack of time is a lot more
to blame for his bleak view of the situation than what has actually been
happening in the war. I am hurting a lot, especially now that Tien Chi's
main force has arrived on the scene, and is cracking castles in one turn.

If you need the turn delayed in order to get a better picture of the situation,
and renew Fomoria's diplomatic relations, I'm OK with it. Hell, if you want to
talk peace, I'm fine with it too, but I think that Corwin has managed to
convince everyone that I am so damn powerful I need to be stopped.

In any case, I would like to sign an agreement with you not to do anything that
kills population. I like to think that mine is a just and benevolent rule, and
that the civilian population has a hard enough time without being killed off by
various spells, pillaging, overtaxing, or patrolling.

[Corwin]

I disagree, I stand by my assesment. If there would be any real hope of victory for Fomoria in this war I would continue playing, despite my severe time crunch. But I have been playing Dom MP for 3 years, and I know hopeless situation when I see it.

If I would take over all nations in the game and would have unlimited time, maybe (and this is big "maybe") the would be a small chance of stalemate (For example if other nations have strong astral reserves/clams hordes, perhaps I would manage to cast Arcane Nexus so strong that even Giants will all their clams would not be able to dispell it quickly).

But anything less then perfect coordination of all remaining nations and total dedication of all resources against Giants, and they will win - I have no doubts whatsoever.

Anyway, it's up to you guys to decide on the future of this game, I am just sharing my vision fo the situation. Let me know what you want to do.

Good game everyone!

[DrPraetorious]

I'm inclined to agree. My forces were basically spent (I had nothing left but freespawn, and barely enough income to pay my mages.)

This game was a very poor showing on my part. Having the forge gobbled by Niefelheim, while not surprising (of course he has a huge earth God), was a major ouch.

I also made a lot of mistakes, mainly not expanding fast enough or in enough directions.

But well played Niefelheim!

[Tuidjy]

Well, I prepared my turn, and it took me exactly 4 hours... If you guys think that
you should surrender, I will be happy to accept. I do not think that you should,
I do not know why my enemies are so distraught, but hey, this game is getting
to be quite demanding. I have six castles that could be stormed this turn, I
am being pressed by armies comprised by 800, mostly summoned, troops and
hundreds (no exaggeration) of mages... And my attention is the one being most spread out.

[lch]

Two people missed their turns according to the stats page - should I stop the game timer until things are cleared up?

[LoloMo]

Is Fomoria still playing or will that nation be handed to a new sub?

[Corwin]

No, as I have indicated in my post, I am waiting for your decision guys, since I am a relatively recent sub myself, so I think it should be up to you to make this call. Do you want me to send Fomoria's password to Drake49?

[zlefin]

are you ok pangaea? cuz ya staled last turn; though it could just be an isolated thing.
and yes ich; stop the game timer; fomoria staling is a bad thing.

i'm fine with calling the game.

and pangaea declared war on me; so i can't really help fighting vs other people.

[Tuidjy]

Fomoria and R'lyeh are surrendering, Pangaea is stalling, Tir Na-Nog is OK
with calling the game... So Tien Chi is the only one who wants to fight me?
I am asking because I would rather not spend four hours on a turn that will
not get played.

[Janlm]

hmm, well if everyone(or most) is getting bored of the game, perhaps we might as well call it and decide a winner. I don't really know who is most likely to win if we decided to play on, except that its not likely to be me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[LoloMo]

Alright, I concede also. Congratulations Niefel!

[zlefin]

i certainly haven't expected to win for some time; even aside from the whole not caring enoguh to put in the time and having left dominions months ago.
i've more been bucking for 2nd.
never really had good expansion prospects; all the neighboring nations weren't vulnerable except for gobbling a few provinces when someone else was kililng 'em.

[Tuidjy]

So, I think that everyone has conceded. I think that this game was just too
big to begin with (the map is too large) I definitely do not think that I could
have stood to a combined assault - namely all nations teleporting SC killers on
top of my provinces and Fomoria telporting army killing squads on top of every
army I leave in an uncastled province. I would have lost the attrition game.

I did have a few things going for me: I do have a huge number of clams and
stones, which I mostly forged once I took over from Nick. He had done some
forging himself, but for some reason had not gone for broke, despite having the
steel forges. He had only made stones for his earth mages...

I also have one enslaving Seraph and a fighting Seraph. I am surprised the
fighting Seraph lasted so long. He actually faced a anti-SC commander under
the worst possible conditions (the anti-SC was part of a balanced army), and
somehow luckied into picking-out, attacking and killing the anti-SC first,
right after the first round of the anti-SC had taken 66% of the Seraph HPs away.

Tartarians... yeah, I am summoning six per turn, and not bothering to GoR them.
I get one or two commanders anyway. I only GoR the 'air cyclops', that is the
Cyclops that come with Earth and Air picks.

Someone did try to wish the Chalice away, twice, but I wished it back. I am
surprised that the coalition that faced me did not poll their pearls to deny me
the chalice at least half of the time. I guess you guys really did not have
clams. I have to admit, I was convinced that R'lyeh and TNN had more clams than
I did, at least until I failed to to be ground down by astral spells.

By the way, I was almost never mindhunted, to the point that I stopped
teleporting astral mages on top of my Air Cyclops. I only got attacked in the
last round, right after I had stopped protecting myself, and the attacks failed.

I am surprised that Fomoria did not use its Fomorian Kings as anti-SC. I
expected that every SC of mine would be teleport-attacked by Kings kited out with
dual firebrands, helmets of goring, boots of kicking, and birds of annoyance.
I certainly protected against that, by having 'retrievers/feebleminders'
sent to the exposed SCs... but I was never attacked by a teleporting anti-SC.
I guess Corwin was familiar with my old tricks.

Anyway. I'll go report the win.

[Corwin]

As far as Fomoria goes - one of its problem was that for all its size, it really had very few SCs comparable to Gaints. Niefelheim has outnumbered me 3:1 to 4:1 to one in teleporting SC department, based upon just teleporting SCs that he has used against me.

On top of that he had Mage Bane and Serpahs. That combo alone (of whitch I was unaware since I have not been in this game for too long) costed me a lot of my best SCs and anti-SCs in several battles. I am not even mentioning Astral Boots, Gate Stone and Solar Brilliance.

Lagging badly behind Giants in both quantity and quality of SCs, I have chosen not to waste what I still had by seeking SC vs SC duels with Niefelheim. I've spooked few of his SC in attempted ambushes (Gaints were also using ritual or returning like I did), but mostly I've used my SCs for raiding (those who had astal pick). Most of my Fomorian Kings as well as remaining SCs went into armies support. I had to use less conventional raiding tactic using "hide and seek" glamour stealthy troops protected against mindhunt, immortals in friendly domminion, Ghost raiders, et cetera. It was quite successeful raiding compaing overall. But at the end it didn't matter, since Gaints have long since switched to gem-producing items economy.

At the end I think one of the main reason for Giants victory is the fact that they had huge ammount of clams and bloodstones. While I have inherited nation which didn't have a single clam or blood stone by turn 75. Giants have masterfully translated their overwhelming gem income into all kind of benefits - tons of unique artifacts, Serpahs, Chalice, wishes, tartarians, kick-*** battle gear(I think Giants have routinely used Rings of Wizardy on their SCs where I would have used talisman of luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ), and of course Forge of Ancients, et cetera.


Anyway, good game everyone. And congratulations to Truidjy for victory, well done.

[zlefin]

I never really got into a war with anyone; ever; so i don't know where my army is weak/strong.
I have the ultimate gateway (50 conj bonus); but only 5-10 sc tarts. since i don't have GoH or chalice; but i couldn't afford to equip too many at one time anyways.
i have a mere 65 clams; i've been using them to wish for gems each turn to maintain 4 clams/turn production; as well as various other forgings/summonings.
gateway helped me acashic record my lands by turn 60 or so.
some gem sites; but the only other cool thing i found was moon mages.
i put the clams on draconians since i needed something to spend my air on; and dracs will survive armageddon (whcih i feared) and give me freespawn troops.

i didn't really have the spare astral yet to spread around much. and i can't get demiliches up to tarts without a ring.
picked up the air queens; not that they ever done more than summon their guys since i never got to war; but nice to have.

I was mostly trying to keep my head down; gobble up provinces if there's an opening; and build up as best i can.

only snagged a few artifacts; stone sword, dimensional rod (for getting rid of scs) and sword of aurgelmer; and prob a few minor ones.
had a few troll king to help bring army of lead and petrify where i needs it.
I think that pretty much sums up everything significant about where i was in the game.

As to why i didn't join the fight against niefel: part not caring, part not knowing whether fomoria would beat niefel (who knows whos words are true); and the lack of a border. I don't like sending armies to places i don't border; makes it hard to shuffle things around; and i never sent out armies of glamour scouts to see wehre everything is.

[Tuidjy]

&gt; I think Giants have routinely used Rings of Wizardy on their SCs where I would
&gt; have used talisman of luck

I had the Forge, the Ovens, and the two artifact hammers. I was getting two rings
of wizardry per turn, at 9 pearls each. I had 5-6 waiting on Jarls, just in case
they were needed. :-)

[Corwin]

zlefin said:
I never really got into a war with anyone; ever; so i don't know where my army is weak/strong.
I have the ultimate gateway (50 conj bonus); but only 5-10 sc tarts. since i don't have GoH or chalice; but i couldn't afford to equip too many at one time anyways.
i have a mere 65 clams; i've been using them to wish for gems each turn to maintain 4 clams/turn production; as well as various other forgings/summonings.
gateway helped me acashic record my lands by turn 60 or so.
some gem sites; but the only other cool thing i found was moon mages.
i put the clams on draconians since i needed something to spend my air on; and dracs will survive armageddon (whcih i feared) and give me freespawn troops.

i didn't really have the spare astral yet to spread around much. and i can't get demiliches up to tarts without a ring.
picked up the air queens; not that they ever done more than summon their guys since i never got to war; but nice to have.

I was mostly trying to keep my head down; gobble up provinces if there's an opening; and build up as best i can.

only snagged a few artifacts; stone sword, dimensional rod (for getting rid of scs) and sword of aurgelmer; and prob a few minor ones.
had a few troll king to help bring army of lead and petrify where i needs it.
I think that pretty much sums up everything significant about where i was in the game.

As to why i didn't join the fight against niefel: part not caring, part not knowing whether fomoria would beat niefel (who knows whos words are true); and the lack of a border. I don't like sending armies to places i don't border; makes it hard to shuffle things around; and i never sent out armies of glamour scouts to see wehre everything is.



Well, I hope you like spending 80 turns playing many months long MP game in a "solo mode" with no opponents, more than you like "sending armies to places you don't border". This game must have been a real emotional rollercoaster for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

When I was rallying people aginst Giants 7 or so turns ago I have been sinsire and very accurate in my predictions. The outcome of this game is the best proof of it.