Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - started

[llamabeast]

Okay, this is an ingenious spin-off thread so I can seize control of the first post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This will be a large LA game, probably with all nations and on a slightly cramped map (suggestions welcome). Settings will probably be normal apart from difficult research.

The players so far are:

Abysia - Kristoffer O
Marignon - Johan K
Arcoscephale - Baalz
Utgård - DrPraetorius
Ermor - Jazzepi
Patala - Yucky
Mictlan - quantum_mechani
R'lyeh - Amhazair
Ulm - Sir_Dr_D
Man - Shmonk
Midgard - Aethyr
Caelum - Folket
Jomon - Hadrian_II
Pythium - llamabeast
T'ien Ch'i - Shard
C'tis - Cerlin
Atlantis - SqueekyDragon
Pangaea - Szumo
Agartha - Valerius

To upload your pretender:

- Make sure you have no mods enabled
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'Sloth' in the subject line of your e-mail

[lch]

To be precise, the only nations left are C'tis, Pangaea, Atlantis and Pythium, while Folket hasn't picked yet.

[HJFudge]

I dont suppose I'd be able to change my pick to Ctis? For some reason I assumed that it was taken

[llamabeast]

Oh, thanks lch, I hadn't realised there were so few left actually. Can you be tempted to play?

Oddly they include three of my five top choices. I guess I must have unusual tastes.

[llamabeast]

Sure HJFudge.

[lch]

llamabeast said:
Can you be tempted to play?


Very tempting, yes, but unfortunately I'm all booked out already. Burned my fingers once when I got too greedy with playing too many games, now I make sure to finish them first before I sign up for a new one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif But I could sub for some time if the need arises.

I suppose that to fix the broken things introduced in 3.10, like TC's Ginseng spell and LA Pythium, the 3.11 patch will be released before this game starts?

[llamabeast]

Aaargh, I am suffering from indecision. I think I won't play Caelum, but one of Agartha or Pythium. Now to choose which...

I think there's a mod that fixes all the issues with 3.10 lch, so we'll just use that.

Edit: I'll play Pythium.

Remaining nations: Agartha, Atlantis, Caelum, Pangaea

[Kristoffer O]

There will be other things added in the 3.11 apart from ginseng and hydrafixes. These are not ready yet.

I'm in favor of more content in patches, so a 3.11 with just a few fixes doesn't sit well with me. The hydrafix mod should probably be used in the Sloth game. Is there a ginseng fix mod?

[llamabeast]

I believe Edi's version of Endo's fix mod fixes pretty much everything.

[llamabeast]

Mapwise, I am quite inclined to use a handdrawn map, since they are lovelier.

Options include:

Glory of the Gods (MP) (274 provinces)
Cradle of Dominion (221)
Orania (279)
Zylithan's The Eight Gates (230) (quite interesting with portals scattered over the map but maybe a bit crazy)

Thoughts? Other suggestions?

[DrPraetorious]

I agree about handdrawn maps.

I don't think we should do slow research - it leaves research-dependent nations too vulnerable.

[SqueekyDragon]

I'll take any LA nation still left (preference towards Atlantis if it's still open).

[Aethyr]

DrPraetorious said:
I don't think we should do slow research - it leaves research-dependent nations too vulnerable.



What would be the benefit of slow research?

[Folket]

Slow research would make endgame more interesting, but would make magic boring in the early game.

[Folket]

... I'm thinking about Then Chi or Caelum.

[llamabeast]

Folket - shard is already T'ien Ch'i.

I'll pencil you in as Caelum, though of course you are free to change.

SqueekyDragon, I'll put you down as Atlantis.

Remaining nations: Agartha, Pangaea

[llamabeast]

More opinions welcome on difficult/normal research.

[Szumo]

If Pangea is still free, i'll take it.

[llamabeast]

Cool, just Agartha to go then.

[DrPraetorious]

Since research output grows steadily as the game goes on, hard research doesn't do much to constrain the wildness of the late game. It just delays it a bit.

In the early game, though, slow research is a major drawback, especially for a nation with strong mages fighting a bless rusher like I'm doing in Evermore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[KJIOYH]

can i play with ya ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif i am nub and havent played online yet to be honest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif If you accept me can you please tell me what i have to do to join ? id prefer to play as ctis.

[KJIOYH]

oh i am too late sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif didnt notice second page

[shard]

I'm fine with either, but as long as we know beforehand. I think it just might affect pretender choice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

However since we are playing LA, wont the lack of gems already inhibit research indirectly?

[Valerius]

Agartha, please.

[llamabeast]

Awesome! Then we're full.

You can now upload your pretenders to the LlamaServer. To do so:

- Make sure you have no mods enabled
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'Sloth' in the subject line of your e-mail

[lch]

"how do I enable no?"

[llamabeast]

Good question http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(To those to whom this seems like we're speaking in code - I had a typo above. Took me a while to work out what lch meant actually.)

[Aethyr]

Llama, when is the deadline to have pretenders up?

[llamabeast]

Okay, I guess I should go ahead and take arbitrary decisions on the map and research.

So, I think we'll use Cradle of Dominion, because it's nice. I'm having difficulties on the normal/difficult research issue though. I think I will bow to Dr P's experience - I suppose it's true on a small map bless nations will be brutal, and difficult research would leave nations which depend on magic to defend themselves helpless. So we'll go with normal research. I hope Kristoffer doesn't mind too much.

About pretender deadline - I will not have a chance to start the game until Saturday morning (sorry), so I suggest a deadline of Friday night UK time for the pretenders.

[Kristoffer O]

OK

[Amhazair]

Magic sites the 35 that's standard in LA, or do we want it higher?
Independents 5? Or higher?

I don't have strong opinions either way, but that's just the settings that are most often changed in MP, so I thought I'd ask.

[Kristoffer O]

Not higher site frequency. Indy 5 seems ok.

[llamabeast]

Indeed - all settings will be default.

[Folket]

I want renaming. It is such a pain not to be able to find mages with a specific random.

[llamabeast]

Yep, sorry, I always put renaming on automatically now, since everyone seems to like it.

[Jazzepi]

I would prefer no graphs.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

I would prefer graphs on. Is there a torrent of opinion favouring no graphs to get me to change my mind?

[Yucky]

Graphs are free scouting.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm of mixed minds about it.

On the one hand, scouting is a lot of micromanagement. If you could recruit scouts and give them the auto-wander command or something, that'd be fine.

On the other hand, graphs give a lot of info that scouts don't give you.

[thejeff]

And scouts give a lot of information that graphs don't. Like where and what the troops are.

[Amhazair]

I prefer graphs of myself too. I find I enjoy games more with the extra uncertainaty about who's doing what. Not that it's a question of life and death.

[Hadrian_II]

I prefer graphs on, as it is a pain in the arse to coordinate scouts all over the map to get some info.(but somehow i always get that pain even when the graphs are on)

[DrPraetorious]

If graphs are off, QM is at an unfair disadvantage since everyone will assume he's winning and gang up on him even if he isn't.

[Sir_Dr_D]

I would vote for graphs off, just because most games have graphs on. But in this case since the devlopers are in the game, and one of the reasons they are in the game is to help balance the game, it is better to have graphs on.

[shard]

Just tried a couple of test games. Cradle seems really cramped indeed... Unless you are Ryleh! Won't this just make everyone go for awakened SCs or bless rush from the start?

[Sir_Dr_D]

I would prefer a map other then Cradle as well. Cradle is the map that seems to be used all the time. And as Shard pointed out, nations will be better balanced on slightly bigger maps.

[llamabeast]

Okay, it is cramped (deliberately), but I am open to suggestions. Suggestions?

[Amhazair]

It is indeed cramped, but that was the intention. But in the Armadillo game we started with a similar number of players, and of the 5 last survivors we had one bless nation (Mictlan) 2 magic-oriented nations who started with an expansion pretender (Caelum and C'tis), and 2 with a rainbow pretender (Atlantis) or an immobile oracle (Pangaea), so it doesn't look to me like it overly skewed the results.

[Folket]

Cramped is fun.

[Kristoffer O]

We were more players in the Armadillo game. Full MA. A bit cramped, but it was quite nice. I don't think i would like it much less cramped.

I like the cradle map. I'm for it.

I don't have any playtesting/balancing reasons to want graphs. Either is fine with me. My main concern is to get stomped as Abysia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Perhaps JK have issues.

[Johan K]

I vote for graphs off, mostly because I'm not used to that and want a little change.

[llamabeast]

Okay, we will have graphs off and remain on the Cradle.

[DrPraetorious]

The version of cradle we're using has the mangled terrain masks fixed, yes?

[llamabeast]

Haven't looked into it yet Dr. P. Is that the "Edi's fix" one?

[Folket]

Can llamabeast update the first post so that I kniow where to send my pretender.

[llamabeast]

llamabeast has done so.

[Folket]

strange, I could swear that he had not done that. Seems like I have two Late Caelum.. is there a easy way to determine which is the latest?

[llamabeast]

He did it just now.

What do you mean? The pretender files? You will probably have one called late_caelum_0.2h and another called late_caelum_1.2h. late_caelum_1.2h is the more recent one (and late_caelum_2.2h would be more recent again, etc.).

[Folket]

sounds easy enough.

[Kristoffer O]

Hope that was the right pretender.

I might be missing cradle on my windows comp. Where do I find an updated version?

[Folket]

I definitely do not have cradle.

[llamabeast]

I will upload it when I start the game then.

[llamabeast]

Okay, we're missing pretenders from:

Patala - Yucky
Mictlan - quantum_mechani
Ulm - Sir_Dr_D
Atlantis - SqueekyDragon

I'll PM them.

[Amhazair]

I just realised this thread was missing something important:

http://www.drakebayholiday.com/drake_bay_costa_rica_sloth_.jpg

http://www.socialfiction.org/img/450px-Bradypus.jpg

(Thans Ich, for providing the pictures.)

[lch]

Ah, yes...

http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF135-Volcano_Snails.jpg

[llamabeast]

Nice comic lch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Okay, all pretenders are now in. Unfortunately I won't have a chance to start the game till tomorrow night now. But then we will be off! Sorry about the delays.

[Yucky]

llamabeast said:
Okay, we're missing pretenders from:

Patala - Yucky
Mictlan - quantum_mechani
Ulm - Sir_Dr_D
Atlantis - SqueekyDragon

I'll PM them.



""Game: Sloth
Late Age, max 20 players

Nations joined so far:
Arcoscephale
C'tis
Jomon
Utgard
Pangaea
Midgard
Chelms
R'lyeh
Caelum
Ermor
Abysia
Agartha
T'ien Ch'i
Marignon
Patala
Ulm
Atlantis
Mictlan

Last updated at 00:10 GMT on Monday November 26th.
Current time: 00:10 GMT"

Looks like you need to PM yourself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

I just did. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Actually I was hoping it would arrive before I finished posting, but obviously the interweb is being slow at delivering my e-mail.

You see, it is impossible to have power without abusing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Actually it turned out I had sent it to the wrong address. Then I sent it again, without putting 'Sloth' in the subject line. Third time lucky!

D'oh!

[Yucky]

The game page http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Sloth still shows as waiting for Pythium.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, third time was also unlucky as it happened. I'd forgotten there was a problem with LA Pythium (the files are called pythium.2h, not late_pythium.2h in line with other nations) which foxes the server (I really should fix it), so I'll just submit it manually when I start the game.

[llamabeast]

Okay, we're started!

I've attached the quickfix mod to the first post for convenience. I don't think anyone will need the map graphic as it comes with Dominions, but I can attach it here if necessary.

Good luck all!

[llamabeast]

Oh, there are 48 hours for the first turn, just in case (I hope we won't come anywhere near using them). After that we're on 24 hours, until people want it extended to 48 hours (I hope we can get a fair way into the game on 24 hours).

[Amhazair]

Mortals beware. For The Hunger Without Thought has awakened, and his famished dreams are sending riples through the void.

[Kristoffer O]

And the Hunger Was
And the Hunger Is
And the Hunger always Will Be

A Fraction
An Aspect
A Shard

of Unity

First
Last
Always

He Who Is at the Center
He Who Is All
He Who is One

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, got carried away there.

I actually intended to say that I'm away during thursday for a day-trip to Stockholm. I hope I will return in time to finish my turn, but I'll be gone from early morning to late evening, so I'm nort sure.

[Aethyr]

...the All-Seeing One, called Godslayer in an age long ago, briefly stirs upon his bed of light. Those who have wisdom, no matter what their power, have learned to quell their voices at such a time; lest he wake fully, unzip the universe, step out of eternity into time, and once again drench himself with the blood of lesser beings...

Excerpted from the Chronicles of the Skyfather

[Kristoffer O]

Skyfather - part of The All

of Unity

[SqueekyDragon]

Lord he was of tongue and speech,
Of earthy knowledge and dark caverns,
Hundred years he did listen to the rocks,
Thousand years did he hearken to stone,
Centuries of worthy wisdom,
Came to him this way.

The verseful god contemplated,
Thought it through thoroughly, quite precisely,
As he wandered far across fenlands,
As he scoured brushy sedgelands,
Journeyed through quiet heathlands.

Thought the god abruptly:
"Sloth is so abundant in this place,
Disorder yet more ample.
I know the ways of power,
Of taking and of holding.
And if I have a wisp of principle,
If I do believe in the truth,
Should the earth and sky not be mine?"

[quantum_mechani]

There once was a pretender from Mictlan
He declared 'All jaguars shall be quickened!'

But then he considered
'While these jaguars skitter,
with flaming weapons they'd do much better'

So they were blessed double
Fighting indies no trouble
And that's how a pretender abused balance unsubtle

[shard]

The foolish vampire count who sought to snuff out the birth of the --- Empire That Shall Rule The World --- now lies permanently dead beyond our city walls. Let that be a lesson on those who dare to face us.


--- K, nub here, I can't for the life of me figure out the purpose of LA TC's ceremonial master. Is he that good at preventing bad events? Theres no icon so I can't tell.

[Kristoffer O]

He's mostly a remnant and a survival of an earlier age of splendour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hadrian_II]

He is also able to cast Voice of Apsu and has the highest chances of any of your mages to go to A2 for Auspex, so even if he looks strange, he can increase your gem income by a lot.

[Kristoffer O]

He is?

[Hadrian_II]

He should be.*

*did i miss something?

[quantum_mechani]

Ceremonial Master vs. Celestial Master.

[Hadrian_II]

quantum_mechani said:
Ceremonial Master vs. Celestial Master.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[llamabeast]

Just so you all know, I postponed hosting so KO wouldn't stale because of his day trip.

[Jazzepi]

The people of Emor are looking for death gems. After the, uh, underwhelming response to our first offer we're now paying 25 gold for each death gem. Let us know what you have!

Jazzepi

[Folket]

I will be away over the weekend and would like hosting to be postponed.

[llamabeast]

Okay.

Could I just ask that people PM me if they have adminy things they'd like me to do? It's easy to miss things in all the different game threads. That said, I am reading this one properly, being in the game myself.

[Folket]

hmm... I thought hosting time and such was handled by the game owner, who I would guess was KO since he announced the game.

[llamabeast]

Yep, it is handled by the game owner/admin- but that's me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Endoperez]

Kristoffer O said:
There will be other things added in the 3.11 apart from ginseng and hydrafixes. These are not ready yet.

I'm in favor of more content in patches, so a 3.11 with just a few fixes doesn't sit well with me. The hydrafix mod should probably be used in the Sloth game. Is there a ginseng fix mod?



I'd just like to say that I'm very proud right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Remember to stomp Abysia, who pretends to be Krisfotter. Or was it the other way round? Stomp, any way.

[shard]

Whats wrong with the ginseng? I drink ginseng tea here after dinner, most agreeable.


I have decided that the ceremonial master really IS just for ceremony. The celestial master on the other hand. Fear him! Fear him well! Once I learn how to cast communions without killing all my slaves that is...

[DrPraetorious]

Kill all your slaves is the best part of a communion!

I share with you my personal motto: all of my troops are toilet paper, you are free to use them up if you wish.

[Johan K]

KO has a broken modem, so he is out of touch with the internet for a few days until he receives a new one.

[llamabeast]

That's unfortunate. Okay, postponed by a further 72 hours to give KO time to modem hunt. I'll postpone it further if it takes him longer (probably will, I guess).

[Johan K]

Thanks, he says he'll play 2 turns tomorrow, so it should make some progress then.

[shard]

I'd like to request switching to 48hr or at least 36 hr turns if possible for the next 2 weeks at least. I'm jetting off on a trip (with my laptop!) and I may need a bit more time to find internet connection to send my turns.

Sorry for the possible delays!

[DrPraetorious]

I'm looking to trade items. I'd prefer trade in kind (i.e., other items) but will take gems if people are willing to negotiate a modest markup.

I've got ASDN at the moment and should have blood shortly, construction 2, could head for 4 but probably have other stuff to do. Particularly useful for anyone looking put luck or somesuch on a SC pretender.

Respond via the forum or send correspondence to:
Knife Bright Insight, True God of the World,
c/o The Prophet WWNBB,
Temple Square
Jotunheim

[quantum_mechani]

EDIT: Nevermind, found the issue.

[Kristoffer O]

> c/o The Prophet WWNBB,

Sounds like the prophet 'wannabee' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

KO - in order for me get the prophet Wannabee, you'll need to up the magic on the skratti just-a-tad.

I suggest:
WB{WNBAEx2,50%}{WNBAEx2,50%}{WNBAEx2,50%}{WNBAE,10 %}

That'd still be exactly 5.1 picks on average, and thus perfectly game balanced... and I'd have a... 1/8 * 1/125 * 6 chance of getting WANNABEE.

No one has a supercombatant god that they want to buy equipment for? /me is sad.

[Amhazair]

/soothe

Someone is bound to buy your stuff eventually...

[llamabeast]

At shard's request (he is on holiday with intermittent net access), I've switched the hosting interval to 36 hours.

[Kristoffer O]

oki

[DrPraetorious]

Though Agartha were a fierce and agressive enemy, we were not quailed by their belligerence.

We are glad to report that we have succeeded in defending ourselves, and have all-but-completely neutralized the violent and agressive forces of Agartha, proving that, together, those who stand by principle need not be intimidated by threats of violence or force of arms.

We are a responsible people, and take the task of reconstruction in the former Agarthan territories very seriously. We will not tolerate any interferece with our peace-keeping mission in those lands.

Your friend,
The prophet of the True God,
WWNBB

[llamabeast]

Okay, shard is back, so I'll restore the 24 hour hosting (although the current hosting time won't be affected). I expect we'll have to start having breaks for christmas soon - let me know if you need a pause or longer hosting times.

[Jazzepi]

The people of Ermor have more non-death gems for trade.

F/A/W*/E*/S*/N

The ones with *s we have significant quantities of. We are willing to trade any gem for death gems 1:1 Please contact us via PM.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

Let it be known that the True God, Knife Bright Insight, though he loves peace, does not teach his followers to tolerate iniquity.

We have identified in the illegitimate regime of the Sibyl three great crimes:
1) Pederasty. A vile practice from which the God commands us to liberate the long suffering people of Arcoscephale.
2) Incontinence. A result of the forementioned.
3) Sophistry. The false prophesies of the Sibyl are an offense to the True Wisdom which flows from the Well of Urd.

We encourage all right-thinking nations to join us in our righteous war of conquest.

[Hadrian_II]

Jomon congratulates Utgard to their attack on the Arcosphelian agressors. Just this turn armoured elephants have crossed our borders and will be slain by us later this year.

[Shmonk]

What is the hosting schedule going to be for the rest of the year? I will be going on vacation starting this weekend, coming back before New Year's, so I'm wondering if we need to find subs or if the game will be paused or slowed down over that time.

[Sir_Dr_D]

I think we should slow down over the holidays. I think the ctis have just staled the last two turns in a row.

[llamabeast]

Really? They should just have messaged me. I'm always happy to slow down rather than have people stale.

What a lot of games are doing is putting the game on quickhost-only until say the 2nd of Jan. This is a bit sad (no christmas turns), but probably the most sensible thing to do. Is everyone happy with that?

[Szumo]

Pangea will soon no longer be alive, Ermor conquered my capital this turn and i'm down to 1 province. It would seem I seriously underestimated his early game potential. See you all in another game perhaps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sir_Dr_D]

llamabeast said:
Really? They should just have messaged me. I'm always happy to slow down rather than have people stale.

What a lot of games are doing is putting the game on quickhost-only until say the 2nd of Jan. This is a bit sad (no christmas turns), but probably the most sensible thing to do. Is everyone happy with that?



I think we ashould do things that way. As much as I would like to continue this game during the holidays, it unbalances things with too many stales.

[Jazzepi]

Szumo said:
Pangea will soon no longer be alive, Ermor conquered my capital this turn and i'm down to 1 province. It would seem I seriously underestimated his early game potential. See you all in another game perhaps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Ermor has ground the Pangean aggressors into the ground! Their capital is now being converted into a single glorious pyre to our great God! Let no man believe that unchecked aggression will allow victory.

Jazzepi

[Johan K]

I'll go away for a week, so I also vote for no timer a while.

[DrPraetorious]

I seem to be the only one that changes message subjects when I reply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

By controlling the discourse, I will soon control the world!

After a break for christmas which I also support.

[Jazzepi]

I'm fine with a break. Happy holidays!

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Okay, the turn was just about to host but three people would have staled, so I'll put it on quickhost only until after New Year's. However, if Abysia, C'tis and Mictlan would like to take their turns, that would be great.

[Kristoffer O]

Hi, my broadband connection went down again.

Right now I'm visiting my folks for a couple of days, and I have installed dom3 here last summer, so I should be able to play again now.

I need turns to be sent to (jesus.osterman at hotmail) though.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've just changed your address and resent your turn, so hopefully you should have received it.

I've paused the timer over Christmas though, and we're still waiting for C'tis so it won't quickhost. Maybe I'll PM him.

[Hadrian_II]

I (jomon) am switching to AI

A nation of heavy armoured samuray has nothing to fight hordes of armoured elephants. Remember me, not to take an imprisoned pretender with jomon when i need his deathmagic to summon thugs (i am not really sure how i thougt a strategy depending on thungs can work when i cant summon thugs before turn 36).

it might be too early to go to AI, as i still have some meat for the grinder, but as my tactic is broken by design and my chances to win against arco <1% i decided to cut and run

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I *am* sieging Arco's capital right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So I think your lamentations might be a *touch* premature - and if you'd like revenge, all you have to do is hold his forces for a bit longer while I conquer his homelands.

[llamabeast]

Oops, the next turn wants to host on January 13th. That's silly, so I've brought it forward to January 3rd - still a 48 hour turn. After that we'll be back on 24 hours, unless anyone wants an extension.

[Baalz]

Well, if it's any consolation samurai < elephants < giants. :/

[Hadrian_II]

DrPraetorious said:
Well, I *am* sieging Arco's capital right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So I think your lamentations might be a *touch* premature - and if you'd like revenge, all you have to do is hold his forces for a bit longer while I conquer his homelands.



ok, then the elephants might turn around. so i will carry on for a few more turns.

[Baalz]

DrPraetorious said:
Well, I *am* sieging Arco's capital right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So I think your lamentations might be a *touch* premature - and if you'd like revenge, all you have to do is hold his forces for a bit longer while I conquer his homelands.



I wouldn't be so confident considering you haven't killed a thing but PD yet. I just was not particularly keen on recalling my expensive elephants to fight on much less advantageous terms. Never fear, I don't intend to roll over without a fight.

[DrPraetorious]

I wouldn't have it any other way!

Knife Bright Insight is a most generous God - and his greatest gift is a GLORIOUS DEATH!

[Kristoffer O]

All is in accordance with my plan

Soon all are united

All is One!

[Amhazair]

llamabeast said:
Oops, the next turn wants to host on January 13th. That's silly, so I've brought it forward to January 3rd - still a 48 hour turn. After that we'll be back on 24 hours, unless anyone wants an extension.

Can you keep the hosting on 48h one turn longer? I won't be home to play my turn on friday.

[llamabeast]

Yep, that'll be fine.

[llamabeast]

Just to let everyone know - Cerlin will be taking over LA C'tis from HJFudge, who seems to have disappeared.

[Cerlin]

yes thanks! I have had a look at the turn and I should be submitting mine on time.

[Amhazair]

Kristoffer, are you staling? I didn't notice much movement on your part for these last turns, (though it might have made military sense to hole up in your castles) and now I see you're the only one who hasn't played his turn 20 mins before time. Do we need to postpone/slow hosting or something?

[llamabeast]

I think Kristoffer is staling actually.

[SqueekyDragon]

I liked it better when the modestly sized armies of Abysia were sieging my capital. No offense intended to the new occupation forces, but can I have them back?

[Hadrian_II]

Jomon has lately had good news and bad news.

The good ones:
The invading forces of Arcoscephale have been beaten

The bad ones:
They have been beaten by the invading forces of marignon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[DrPraetorious]

God damn it, Baalz, WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!?!?

My hat goes off to Baalz, and his ally, my own arrogance, for joining forces to make my conquest of his territory painful and expensive.

I'd say that it was a learning experience except that I've done this repeatedly in the past and seem incapable of learning from this particular mistake. Ah well.

[Amhazair]

SqueekyDragon said:
I liked it better when the modestly sized armies of Abysia were sieging my capital. No offense intended to the new occupation forces, but can I have them back?

My apologies to you. The Hunger Without Thought devoured them all. He might use the remains as a fertilizer of the province once the castle is conquered though. Good enough for you?

Edit: Yikes, that's a lot of skellespam you've got in there... I knew you had it, but had hoped for a bit less. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Baalz]

DrPraetorious said:
God damn it, Baalz, WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!?!?

My hat goes off to Baalz, and his ally, my own arrogance, for joining forces to make my conquest of his territory painful and expensive.

I'd say that it was a learning experience except that I've done this repeatedly in the past and seem incapable of learning from this particular mistake. Ah well.




Well, if it's any consolation your brutal attack has broken my back so it should be relatively easy from here. Gah, if only I'd had one or two more turns you'd have gotten a face full of 12+ person communion falling fires & gifts from heaven while those swarms of dragonflies held you down and soaked up the shadow blasts. So close. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I doubt being more conservative would have ended better for you...

[Jazzepi]

llamabeast said:
I think Kristoffer is staling actually.



Could he be set to AI? I hate to ask, but he's staled four times in a row now, and is working on his fifth :0

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Yeah, it's very uncharacteristic. It's actually a bit difficult for me to do - last time I set someone to AI I staled my own turn because of a CD key clash. I will borrow my brother's CD key and sort it out when I get a chance, but it doesn't make much difference anyway as he only has one province left. I suspect it was something of a miserable game for Abysia.

I'm postponing the current turn by 24 hours, as Amhazair has come down with food poisoning.

[shard]

All I can say is....

Buggerit

[llamabeast]

With respect to what?

[shard]

Abysia stalling...
Is there actually any way to tell?

I've also been going through too many Terry Pratchett books but thats another story.

[DrPraetorious]

Dammit, I staled http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Well, Cancun is nice and my wireless works in el hotel.

[DrPraetorious]

Dammit, I staled http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Well, Cancun is nice and my wireless works in el hotel.

[Aethyr]

The Sons of Odin, unable to withstand the juggernaught of the T'ien Ch'i war machine, have passed from this world...

I have set myself to AI gentlemen. Enjoy the game.

[shard]

The Barbarian Kings, always devoted to humanitarian endeavors, could not bear to see the Sons of Odin slaughter the Abysian citizenry as they lay leaderless. Though it may be too little, too late, we hope that at least some measure of satisfaction was derived by the fiery souls forever imprisoned in Vanhalla.

[llamabeast]

Jazzepi has asked for a 24 hour extension due to technical difficulties, so that's what I've done.

Wow, I got a little distracted from watching my Abysian neighbours. I knew they were being crushed by Midgard. Then, suddenly, the area is full of T'ien Ch'i and R'lyeh troops. Four nations all congregating in the same tiny area (~4 provinces), and two of them destroyed! Crazy!

I assume Midgard's empire extended some distance beyond my knowledge to the north, and T'ien Ch'i swept in while Midgard's armies were distracted with crushing Abysia.

[Jazzepi]

You can take the extension off if you want, I fixed it D:

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

And now I have a problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif, and would like to keep the extension.

When were we moving to 48 hrs host interval?

[Amhazair]

There was no pre-arranged time, so when people started to ask for it. Are you asking for it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I managed to get this turn in just now - but a 48 hr interval would be nice at this point, I think.

[Jazzepi]

*whine*

Can someone please finish off Abysia? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Jazzepi

[Shmonk]

I agree, a 48 hour host would be better now, or starting soon.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm buying earth gems.

I will give any other gem 1:1. Blood slaves and gold are negotiable.

Correspondence may be adressed directly to Knife Bright Insight, the True God who is again abroad in the world (rejoice!).

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've switched the timer to 48 hours. As a side effect, the current turn will host 24 hours later, which will hopefully save Mictlan and Utgard from staling.

[Kristoffer O]

Hi, my internet connection and router is working properly again.

Excuse me for not AI:ing. I could have told JK to do that form me when I had staled away a bit. I've been a bit occupied with school work and haven't thought about the game much after I was shut down. Sorry.

[Kristoffer O]

Oh, well

I was just about to play my turn and go AI. Seems I was too late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Good luck to you all. I wasn't very useful in this game. Still I got some new ideas for LA abysia, so it was a useful game. I'll develop the slayer cult a bit further.

[llamabeast]

Wow, I've just noticed there are only 10 out of 19 nations left in the game!

[Cerlin]

I have officially turned myself to AI. Good luck to everyone!
TC has beaten me.

[quantum_mechani]

For any that are interested, Pythium's forces are currently distracted up in the northern swampy corner, anyone bordering them might do well to look for new frontiers in that direction. As further incentive, a pot of 100 gems is offered to the first nation to capture Pythium's capital.

[llamabeast]

Erm, is that a declaration of war?

[quantum_mechani]

Just a notification for anyone interested in the bounty, upon consideration of the might of Mictlan, Pythium has reconsidered their warlike stance and signed a new peace treaty. Thus the bounty is rescinded.

[DrPraetorious]

I want to put up the Forge, and I want it to stay up. I'll make a permanent alliance with anyone who'll give me a big pile of earth gems.

If you're the highest earth-gem bidder, I will:
* Forge up to 20 items for you per turn (that's the most I can send you) for -
- actual-cost-without-hammer + 1 gem of your choice
or
- actual-cost-with-hammer + 2 gems of your choice

The 1 or 2 gem costs will cover the use of a mage or hammer, which of course I have to pay. Artifacts are negotiable but I'm making the cheap/good ones already.

In addition, I would offer an essentially permanent NAP (you can back out any time you want but then I don't have to keep forging stuff for you).

I will keep this arrangement secret (if you like, which I assume you would) so that other players will not know you're benefiting from the forge - I'd keep it secret myself except that I can't.

[Hadrian_II]

Jomon is very interested in this deal, we can offer you 8 earth gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif (why are no neighbours of me actually interested in killing me, i have now arco, marignon, rlyeh and ermor swarming my lands :/)

[shard]

The legions of Ermor now turn East, a numberless, merciless crusade against the living.

They turn East, to overrun the fair lands of Tien Chi while its Kings battle honourably, defending the homeland against the invasions of Ctis and Mictlan.

They turn East, to make certain of their final victory in the war to end all wars as they seek to take for themselves the jewel in the Tien Chi crown, The Fabled Tower of the Iron Order.


Perhaps the Kings will now pay for their naivete, believing in Ermor's offer of friendship and alliance.
Perhaps the emissaries sent out to neighbouring realms should not have taken silence and indifference as an answer, and worked harder to secure treaties.
Perhaps the generals, faced with securing borders against the 2 mightiest nations in the world were too unwilling to venture far from their castle walls.


But perhaps, it may not be too late for they who love life. The great Gadong still lives, supported by our veteran mages and troops that have faced unceasing battle.
We will not fall easily. With aid, we may even hope to hold. Heed our pleas, and know that we ALL stand at the edge of great peril.

[DrPraetorious]

The vile denizens of the deep, R'lyeh, have invaded my lands.

We call upon all the free, sane peoples of the world to join us in repulsing their evil, before it is too late.

[Amhazair]

Yes, well... With Utgard approaching just about every other nation on the planet with offers of joint attack on me, I didn't feel I had much choise. Rather attack now, on my terms, than be pounced on while I'm looking the other way.

Besides, let's put things in perspective. I might be mad, and definitely am hungry, but R'lyeh hardly can be accused of having a disciplined military machine backed up by the immensly powerful forge of the ancients. Anyone with ambitions of winning the game should be more worried about that enchantment than about anything I can do...

[shard]

Is there something with the server? Don't think it accepted my turn

[DrPraetorious]

The *only* nation I approached with an offer of a joint attack was Ermor - so I know what Jazzeppi does when given such proposals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

I think I mentioned to some other players that you were an obvious threat, but that's par for the course.

I don't know what's up but QM couldn't send in a turn either. If possible we should delay hosting?

[shard]

DrPraetorious said:
The *only* nation I approached with an offer of a joint attack was Ermor - so I know what Jazzeppi does when given such proposals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.





...attack someone else? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif


Hmm... it seems I'm going to have to read up on some previous campaigns to learn about player personalities

[shard]

Just received the new turn... but it seems I've staled, despite other emails saying my turn had been received.

However it looks like I'm not the only one staling? Just judging by a general lack of activity

[llamabeast]

I (Pythium) actually seem to have gone back in time. Anyone else had this.

Every time I accidentally turn the LlamaServer off overnight, when I start it up again the strangest things happen. This time I was super careful about restarting it. It's so weird.

Anyway as one feature of my super carefulness, this time I backed up every game before restarting the server, so at least we'll certainly be able to fix whatever's gone wrong.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I have some idea what's happened, but am teaching in a little over an hour and haven't marked their work yet. So I will fix it in a bit.

[Jazzepi]

So we should expect to receive new turns without stales?

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Okay, I think I've fixed it. Hopefully we will all get new turns sent out in a minute or two, and hopefully they will make sense.

[Jazzepi]

Is turn 42 the right turn? I feel like I still got staled =\

Yeah this is definitely wrong. The turn I cast mother oak I forged a treelord staff, I also have two turns worth of gold income in my bank.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Okay, I'll have another look when I get home. Sorry about this, everyone.

[Jazzepi]

It's really weird. It looks like some of the commands I issued were there. For instance there's a castle building that I *think* I started on the same turn.

Basically I was under the impression that the turn we should be at right now, I should have just finished forging the treelord staff, and last turn would have been the turn I cast Mother Oak. I'm 99% certain I haven't sent it to my trade partner yet.

Also, and I don't know if this is some feature of the new version, but now I have commanders that are like... basic shock troops for Ermor. I have a souless commander, and a longdead velite commander O.o

Jazzepi

[Amhazair]

DrPraetorious said:
The *only* nation I approached with an offer of a joint attack was Ermor - so I know what Jazzeppi does when given such proposals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Well, I might have jumped to conclusions about you being the spider pulling the strings when I suddenly heard loads of threatening noises the turn after I invaded you.

I mean, it's just so far fetched to believe anyone would see me as a bigger threat than you that it had to be some fiendiesh plot you hatched, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jazzepi]

Amhazair said:

DrPraetorious said:
The *only* nation I approached with an offer of a joint attack was Ermor - so I know what Jazzeppi does when given such proposals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Well, I might have jumped to conclusions about you being the spider pulling the strings when I suddenly heard loads of threatening noises the turn after I invaded you.

I mean, it's just so far fetched to believe anyone would see me as a bigger threat than you that it had to be some fiendiesh plot you hatched, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



I'm pretty sure R'yleh doesn't have FoTA up.

Jazzepi

[Amhazair]

Turn 42 looks correct to me. All my orders seem to have been carried out.

Also, this turns battle in south calderan was hilarious. One poor lonesome magister gets flushed out by my patrolling forces. Unfortunately for me the rather sizable army was set to retreat in the event Utgards big army decided to move that way, so they all quickly flee from the dangerous magister, who proceeds to phantasmal warrior-kill the PD and conquer the province...

[llamabeast]

My turn (the one that arrived later labelled "turn 42" rather than the earlier, erroneous "turn 43") also looks fine. I have two turns worth of gold, but I _think_ that's because I saved 1000 gold last turn (although I was tired at the time so can't be sure). What does everyone else think?

Another reason to think it is probably correct is that I can't think of any reason it could be wrong. I took the backup, scrounged everyone's 2h files from backups, and just ran the turn. It definitely is turn 42, as well, so we can't have missed a turn. So I am reasonably confident it's correct.

[Jazzepi]

Bleh. This is very frustrating for me. That was a rather crucial turn, I forged several high level items, and made several map moves with my larger armies. Now my perfectly laid plans are ****zored.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Okay, sorry Jazzepi. It's a bad time for me to try to sort it out, as I have a very rushed day. I'm not rushed tomorrow though, so I'll take another look in the morning and see if I have any ideas.

Everyone else - please say if your turn has gone funny too.

[Jazzepi]

I think something must have happened when I tried to send me turn in. I don't know. I thought I sent it in much earlier than before the servers are down.

I don't expect everyone to back up a turn because I had one really bad stale D: Especially since everyone else apparently did not.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

I think we should roll back if it was an important turn for you Jazzepi. I'm confident we can fix it.

However, I will do it in the morning. I'm beginning to learn my lesson to never, ever do anything to the server when I am tired or drunk, or it all goes far more wrong than seems reasonable.

[Jazzepi]

Is it possible to do this?

-Keep everyone else's turn that they submitted for the turn 41.
-Allow me to resubmit a proper turn for turn 41.
-Once I have my turn in for turn 41, rehost it with my orders in.

That way nothing would change except for the fact that I'd be able to actually give my orders, and people wouldn't be able to change their plan of action based on what happened last turn. The only things I did last turn were forge items, build some structures, and move my armies around. I didn't react to any incoming stimulus. I would also be willing to submit my turn to a trusted 3rd party for them to review so that they can see that I'm telling the truth.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Okay, I have done exactly that. Jazzepi, I got it to resend your turn for you. Just in case of any other inexplicable mixups, make sure to play again with that turn. The server will host once it receives your turn.

Everyone else, just do nothing until Jazzepi has played. Apologies again.

[DrPraetorious]

Llamabeast - before it hosts, can you check manually that no-one else has tried to send in the next turn, or if that if they had, it uses the turn file with a different # that they sent previously instead?

I anticipate confusion otherwise.

[shard]

i am confused already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[llamabeast]

Good thinking Dr.P., but no-one had sent in turn 42, and it now thinks it's turn 41 so won't accept any turn 42s. You're right that mayhem would have resulted.

[llamabeast]

Incidentally, I should have said - please can no-one but Jazzepi send in new 2h files? In fact I will make sure to use the files received before so that everything will happen the same apart from Jazzepi's moves working correctly.

[Jazzepi]

Alright, sent mine in. Thanks for working with me guys.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

How is it this time Jazzepi?

[llamabeast]

By the way, it is very important that everyone deletes their 2h files before playing the new version of the turn. I've sent an e-mail to that effect.

[Jazzepi]

This turn is perfect. I'm not sure what happened with the last one that I got. Everything was spent/forged correctly, and I no longer have any Souless, Longdead Velite, or other Ermor shock troop commanders.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Marvellous. We are back on course!

Incidentally I think I have realised what went wrong, and we probably rolled back for no reason as it turns out. I suspect you had a 2h file for the alternate universe Turn 42 in the directory before. When you have a 2h for the same turn number and the same game it throws no errors, but shows you absolute craziness.

I'm not saying that's your fault by the way, I'm surprised more of us didn't end up with the same issue, it was just a coincidence of timing I guess that you ended up with it (specifically you probably got around to playing the erroneous turn before the rest of us). Anyway, it's one to remember for next time.

[Jazzepi]

You know, I *never* delete the 2H file in these PBEM games. It always just over writes it. I did it this time because you explicitly said to.

Now that I think about it, there's a slim chance that last turn I sent in a turn from the old version, but I'm not sure that's the case. I can't remember.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

So what I mean I think happened is:

- LlamaServer sends out erroneous turn 42 (labelled turn 43)
- Jazzepi starts playing it and saves and exits dominions
- LlamaBeast sends out corrected turn 42 (since the first one was completely nuts)
- Jazzepi opens it, and because the 2h file generated when he started playing the erroneous turn 42 is still there it shows crazy stuff

Is that possible? It sounds like quite a likely series of events to me. Like I say, it's even surprising that it didn't affect more of us. The reason it didn't is because we were all too slow off the mark to do the second point above.

I don't think you ever actually sent in an erroneous 2h file, because thinking carefully back there's been no opportunity to. We've never actually hosted turn 42 and turn 41 was fine.

[Jazzepi]

Actually, I think that's exactly what happened. I definitely got the turn 43, and opened it up. I remember looking at it with the big "stale" message the top. Then I got the turn 42, and opened it up with no "stale" message and couldn't figure out why everything was so wrong D:

Jazzepi

[shard]

Yes, I do believe there have been some changes to the armies that are now poised to invade my borders compared to the previous erroneous alternate universe. Some troop shuffling and battlefield items perhaps?

Nevertheless, they shall ALL still be REPELLED by my INVINCIBLE, INVINCIBLE, NIGH INVINCIBLE forces!

As for Mictlan, you will not have it easy either. How long would it take to reprophetise a new underling after the last one has had its mind violated and turned to mush anyway?


Edit: some capitalisation for emphasis
Edit2: 100th post!

[shard]

sigh...

it seems I haven't given enough leeway and my turn missed the deadline http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Is there any chance of the turn rehosting with my turn sent in? I'll understand if not, theres been enough technical issues already without my procrastination added into the mix.

[Jazzepi]

I would say no for the following reasons.

When I "staled", it wasn't because of missing a deadline, it was because of the weirdness caused by the turn 43 being passed out early, before turn 42.

Also, when I staled I wasn't actively fighting anybody, ergo nobody else's strategies, armies, spells were revealed to me. Nor did I change the course of action I was taking earlier regarding alliances/NAPs.

This turn I just had two important battles where I revealed the content of both invading armies and I feel like backing up now would give an unfair advantage to my opponent.

Jazzepi

[shard]

To clarify, I believed I sent my turn in before the deadline, but it reached the server after the turn was processed. Therefore there was no 'prescience' on my part for the turn that was sent, and that is the turn I would play.

[llamabeast]

Erk. I can do this, using all the turns people sent in before the deadline (hence no prescience), but I don't particularly like the precedent it sets, this kind of thing could easily get a bit out of control. Do other people have thoughts? If it was a particularly crucial turn for shard I suppose it might be a fair thing to rerun the turn (using, of course, only 2hs which were sent before hosting).

[shard]

It was quite a crucial turn, involving a lot of panicky last minute decisions and changes. However, as I estimate TC to only be a 2nd or 3rd tier power with little chance of overall victory in this game I shall leave it up to you guys to decide. At any rate I shall be looking to find a permanent sub for at least one of the 3 games i am involved in as its obvious I have overextended myself. This isnt the first time i've cut a turn close and I suppose I had it coming.

[Jazzepi]

I really have to object to this. If you don't make the deadline, you don't make the deadline. I'm sorry that shard sent his turn in but it didn't make it there on time. That's what happens when you try to cut it too close to the wire.

I don't think you can equate missing the deadline, which is something you're responsible for taking care of, with having your turn mangled by the server.

Jazzepi

[quantum_mechani]

Interesting, 2 eagle warriors just randomly became commanders with (thematic) magic, and a slave warrior became a plain troop commander.

[Jazzepi]

quantum_mechani said:
Interesting, 2 eagle warriors just randomly became commanders with (thematic) magic, and a slave warrior became a plain troop commander.



This is what happened to me when my turn was messing up. I would suggest deleting the files for sloth, and redownloading your turn.

Jazzepi

[quantum_mechani]

Same thing even when downloaded into a fresh folder.

[llamabeast]

Jazzepi - sorry you didn't like the decision. I agree it's a little questionable - still, at times when turns are critical, I think if possible the outcome should not be determined by players running out of time. While it would have been better if shard had let me know in advance, that was the decision I made this time. The main reason I wouldn't make it more often is that it would be too much work. Having said that I think I will refrain from doing the same thing in future because it causes confusion and feels a little unfair. The responsibility's entirely mine though, not shard's.

Anyway, as I say, sorry if you didn't like it. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to go back and rehost again without shard's turn.

QM: a couple of games seem to have had bugs along these lines occasionally, and I'm stumped as to what could be causing them. There was nothing weird about the rehosting, I used the same 2h files as the first time.

[quantum_mechani]

Actually, the same thing occurred in the host both with and without shard's turn. This isn't the first game I've recently seen this in either, and I'm also stumped as far as any common factors.

[Jazzepi]

llamabeast said:
Jazzepi - sorry you didn't like the decision. I agree it's a little questionable - still, at times when turns are critical, I think if possible the outcome should not be determined by players running out of time.



Let me explain something. There were multiple mages (we're talking something like a dozen or so) patrolling a certain territory for multiple turns. When I attacked in the first instance of the host, those mages were still patrolling (as they were for several turns before my attack, verified by scouts that were constantly caught by the patrollers). Now, in the second instance, when the overwhelming force I brought to bear on that province was made clear, none of those mages were patrolling. However, the province where I attacked with a weaker army was heavily reinforced.

Shard did not make the deadline. You're punishing *me* for a mistake *he* made by giving him a chance to change his orders between battles after being given perfect information about my attacking armies.

I can't prove that those mages would still have been patrolling anymore than Shard can prove that they would have moved back, but it is awfully convenient that his forces withdrew from the stronger pairs of armies, and stayed in place against the weaker of the pairs.

I'm really questioning if I should even bother staying in these games if you're going to let people rehost after two large battles have occurred because of a mistake they made completely under their own control. You have TWO DAYS to take your turn. I'm playing Ermor, probably the largest and most micro intensive empire in the game ATM. I don't miss my turns, and when I do, believe me I've staled 4-5 times as R'yleh in BAG, I take responsibility for it.

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Jazzepi, I want to make one thing clear straight away: I can see the time Shard's e-mail was sent, and it was indeed before hosting. Furthermore it arrived within a few seconds of hosting. There's no way he could have used information from the hosting. That's quite an important point - if there was any way he could have seen the new turn before sending his e-mail, I obviously would not have rehosted, because that would have been stupid.

So, you're not being punished for him making a mistake. As far as you're concerned the situation is as it would be if he had taken his turn well in advance.

I'm very sorry that this happened in the way it did, because I can see that it must be very annoying for you. But please remember - the injustice is only the same as happens every time I give someone an extension without them asking, which happens reasonably often. No more.

[Jazzepi]

That's not at all what I thought was going on. Apologies for protesting so much. Carry on!

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

Oh phew, that's a relief.

Okay all, we are back to normal service.

[DrPraetorious]

That went well, all things considered.

If anyone else wants R'lyeh territory, other than those to whom I've been sending Goblets, confer with me first - I don't doubt that he'll invite people to take his territory once it's clear he can't win, and I don't intend to stop going just because someone else has lain claim to some of his lands.

[Amhazair]

DrPraetorious said:
The vile denizens of the deep, R'lyeh, have invaded my lands.

We call upon all the free, sane peoples of the world to join us in repulsing their evil, before it is too late.


Amhazair said:R'lyeh hardly can be accused of having a disciplined military machine backed up by the immensly powerful forge of the ancients. Anyone with ambitions of winning the game should be more worried about that enchantment than about anything I can do...

In view of his last post, it seems the good doctor is agreeing with me. Utgard is now churning out Tartarians, equiped with extremely powerful, forge-cheapened artifacts, and while so far he's mainly killed some (quite a lot of) chaff, his potential for growth is huge.

Anyone intrested in defeating this power (or even slowing it down while you further your own plans) is free to contact me. I'm still in perfectly good fighting shape, and anything you can do to hurt Utgard (Ritual spells of any kind - I can provide the coördinates where they will do the most good; donations to the poor, bereaved nation of R'lyeh will obviously be put to their best use in dealing with this threat, or setting up a fund to dispel FoTA - though I'm afraid that will require a lot of pearls )will prolong this conflict, and give you more time to rise to world domination.

In the meantime, The Hunger Without Thought shall continue to feed, and the nation of R'lyeh wishes you all pleasant dreams. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I agree with nothing of the sort!

R'lyeh has not yet grown so powerful that he can stand against a military axis containing 3 players. While I'm pleased with my tarts, those are only a few thugs - R'lyeh has communions of star spawn, which, if left alone, can be rendered virtually immune to the overland attack spells which he wishes you to fling at my armies.

This is not to be tolerated - we must end R'lyeh quickly and decisively.

[Amhazair]

I'd like to request a 24h extension if possible. I just realised we're having an after-work drink tomorrow, so I won't be able to submit my turn in time.

[llamabeast]

Done!

[DrPraetorious]

Oh, argh! He is *so lucky*! He took out my blood-master, preventing her from erasing the fatigue on my communion!

Grrr! Snarl! 19 slaves, down the drain.

Well, I'll send two of them next time.

[llamabeast]

Amhazair apparently is having computer problems, so I've postponed hosting to give him time to fix it.

[Amhazair]

DrPraetorious said:
Oh, argh! He is *so lucky*! He took out my blood-master, preventing her from erasing the fatigue on my communion!

Grrr! Snarl! 19 slaves, down the drain.

Well, I'll send two of them next time.

This sounds ominious. Does this mean our two big armies collided, and you won the battle? Ayayay. Can't wait to look at my turn. If all goes according to plan that will be tomorrow, I should have my computer back in working order by then. My apologies to everyone for the delay.

[shard]

I'll be leaving for a trip and I'm not sure when I can get email access so I'd like to request for a 24hr extension if possible.

Thanks in advance!

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, I'd like a 24h extension as well. I'm extremely busy with work.

[llamabeast]

I've just realised that Folket still hasn't taken over from qm as Mictlan, so I will postpone hosting by a day (or more, if Folket wants time to look at the position) rather than let Mictlan stale again. I'm about to invade, so it's hardly fair to let him stale.

[llamabeast]

Thanks to my forgetfulness Mictlan ended up staling again last turn (oops), but now Folket has given me his e-mail address and I've set Mictlan up to point to it and resent the current turn. So we are all good. I've added an extra 24 hours to the clock again to give Folket a little time to look at the position.

[DrPraetorious]

Could we move the hosting interval up to 72 hrs/QH? My turns are getting exceedingly complicated and I've also got a lot to do at work.

[llamabeast]

I'm a little hesitant to move to 72 hour hosting because I've found before that that's longer than my enthusiasm attention span, and I guess that may be the same for others as well. However, if you're really struggling Dr P, certainly I'll change it.

[DrPraetorious]

I can manage for at least a bit longer.

[DrPraetorious]

I am beset on all sides by foes. If anyone wishes to stop R'lyeh while they still can, send aid - even if I can win against him alone, I'll be too severely crippled by all this to much of a threat.

I'm in need of nature gems for GoR - if you have any, I will trade you items for nature gems at cost (that is to say, if it costs me 4 gems-with-hammer to make an item, I will trade it to you for 4 nature gems.)

I'd also like money. I have a big crate of Sea King's goblets that I made for Man and Pythium, if anyone wants those.

[llamabeast]

Utgard now has the Maelstrom up, giving 15 water gems, along with 5 pearls and a few other miscellaneous gems. With the forge, each clam costs only 5 water gems. So Utgard will be forging at least 3 clams, probably 5 or so, every turn. Although water gems are useful for other things e.g. frost brands and boots of quickness, they only cost 1 and 3 gems respectively!

If Utgard is allowed to keep these spells up we will all be doomed pretty soon, regardless of how well we play.

[DrPraetorious]

This is a game where it's a pity graphs are off.

I just lost my actual army (due to the short turn schedule http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - I didn't notice they were marching without gems).

Anyway - either I can slow down R'lyeh enough to give me some time to maybe beat Man, or I'll be eaten alive.

If I can slow down R'lyeh enough to beat Man before R'lyeh eats me, and if I beat Man, *then* maybe I can beat R'lyeh on land.

Then maybe someone other than R'lyeh has a chance. R'lyeh doesn't need any world-stomping enchantments up - he's R'lyeh. Do any of you really think you could stop him if he has my (and Man's, obviously, once I'm eaten) land territories? Enchantments are nice, but he'd have literally half the map.

[Amhazair]

Aaargh! Now it's my turn to loose all my slaves in a victorious battle. 40 mages down the drain...

Note to self: Do NOT make comunions too big. Even if each cast of a master only gives each slave 2 fatigue points, enough masters will kill em all. One more lesson learned the hard way...

[Shmonk]

Well Man is going to do everything in his power not to get beaten. So far things are getting interesting right about now.

[DrPraetorious]

That was decisive.

I lost 4 Tarts this turn, effectively 5, and I'm down to 8 provinces. My light, it appears, has gone out of the world.

While I hurt R'lyeh terribly (after a fashion - he doesn't care about his troops, only the star spawn matter), I failed even to bruise Shmonk.

Nonetheless, I think he will regret the decision to switch sides, and soon.

I'll be giving away my remaining posessions over the next few turns.

[Amhazair]

Well, you sure proved a tough nut to crack, and I got a bit lucky on a few occasions. (Taking out your reinvigorator in our first big battle, meaning that you couldn't capitalise on your victory; and I still don't know how I managed to kill that Titan with the stone sword)

The decisive element though, was the fact you had the forge up. While I'm sure you benefited from it (and damn, you had some nastily equiped titans) it also meant everyone was more afraid from you than from me, and in the end noone intervened in your favor.

This was also the war where I learned a lot about large communions. Before now I had only used small/medium communions, nothing really nasty. Now I had a 60-man(fish?thing?) communion running around casting some big spells. Watching you use your communion sure taught me some tricks too. Thank you for the education. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


And The Hunger Without Thought has eaten.

[DrPraetorious]

It's true that I underestimated the diplomatic hit that the Forge gave me. Telling Ermor to back off of your corpse may also have been a bad move diplomatically http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif, although I'm not sure why it would've pissed off Pythium and Man.

I was a bit surprised when people offered to help me fight you - I'd expected to have to go toe-to-toe, but when Shmonk announced that he was going to attack me *instead*, that came as a major surprise.

[Jazzepi]

I actually think that in a game this size Forge is probably /the/ most powerful overworld enchantment. The gem savings off of it amount to far more than you'd expect to get from the astral spell, whatever it's called, with only 4-5 other opponents.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

DrPraetorious said:
It's true that I underestimated the diplomatic hit that the Forge gave me. Telling Ermor to back off of your corpse may also have been a bad move diplomatically http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif, although I'm not sure why it would've pissed off Pythium and Man.

I was a bit surprised when people offered to help me fight you - I'd expected to have to go toe-to-toe, but when Shmonk announced that he was going to attack me *instead*, that came as a major surprise.



You basically claimed half the map by saying that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif You didn't just announce that to Ermor. You said "anyone taking Ryleh's territories..." and basically threatened the entire map if they didn't let you have all of R'yleh's stuff.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

Well, what I actually said was:

If anyone else wants R'lyeh territory, other than those to whom I've been sending Goblets, confer with me first - I don't doubt that he'll invite people to take his territory once it's clear he can't win, and I don't intend to stop going just because someone else has lain claim to some of his lands.


Since I'd been sending Pythium and Man goblets, that was just you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I suppose that T'ien Ch'i or Mictlan might've conceivably been threatened, but....

Anyway, yeah, Forge is the best enchantment on this map. Ordinarily I can make peace by forging stuff for other people, but no takers this game.

[Amhazair]

Having said all that, Utgard has still got 5 or 6 Tartarians, (some of them might be new/unequiped, but I don't think they still will be by the time I face them) a horde of mages, and some chaff waiting for me behind high walls. I'm sure he'll want to deal out one more hard blow before going down.