EpikBattel - Started

[FrozenFalcon]

The starter of the previous thread, TrajanX, disappeared, so I'm making a new one for the game.

Game will be for 6 teams, each consisting of 2 players, new players preferred. Age is MA, map will be World of Geometry and I think we agreed on using Worthy Heroes mod.



Game will be hosted on Llamabeast's PBEM-server.

Signed players:
Team 1:
Zeldor - Mictlan
moderation - R'lyeh
Team 2:
Torin - Machaca
FrozenFalcon - Bandar Log
Team 3:
Agema - Arcoscephale
Niarg - C'tis
Team 4:
Bananadine - Abysia
Gregstorm - Pythium
Team 5:
otthegreat - Marignon
DonCorazon - Eriu
Team 6:
Networkingguru - Ermor
JZ - Oceania


Correct me if I'm wrong.

Game is now full.

My gaming experience is limited to playing against computers in Dom2 and 3, and a single blitz.

9 pretenders have been sent to the server, still waiting for three. No actual deadline, just send them as soon as you can.

[Zeldor]

No chance for Conceptual Balance mod?

And what about increasing gold to 125 or 150 to make it more interesting?

[Gregstrom]

There were requests not to use CBM in the previous thread, I think.

I favour standard settings on gold/resources/research myself - mostly because I'm still very new to the game and want a chance to get used to the default behaviour of the races.

My total MP experience is:
Lost 2 MP games, 1 game ongoing but in a reasonable position.

[Zeldor]

Gregstrom:

We have agreed on WoG, that is more adventurous map and it introduces new players to new type of game - cumulative VP. I think no one played that before, even in SP.

I bring the 125-150% gold only because it would make late game more interesting, with that battles for central island.

[otthegreat]

I agree with bringing the gold up to 125-150%. I have played SP a fair amount but difficult AI still slaps me around. This would be my first multiplayer game.

[Niarg]

I'd still rather we had a game at the default settings, especially as this will be the first MP game for most of us.

My experience is dabbling in SP and not started an MP game yet (I only got the game recently).

[llamabeast]

My advice: _Really_ don't play on World of Geometry, it's far too big for 12 players. I mean, it's fine (really cool in fact), but only if you're deliberately setting out to play a huge game, which is the case for the other group of players who are just starting a game on it. I would definitely not play your first MP game on it. It will go on for ever, be micromanagement hell and put you all off. I normally aim for about 15 provinces/player or a bit less. Cradle of Dominion would be a nice map if you get a few more players. I've actually just started a game on that with 19 players, but 14 or so would be a very reasonable number.

If you stay at 8 players then I have a modified version of the Parganos map which I think is excellent for 8. The modifications are to make it a fairer map, because the default version has excessive clustering of terrain types, meaning e.g. one player ends up with all the farms, another with all the wasteland.

I have to say I would also leave things like income on default. People very rarely change those settings and I don't know why you'd want to - they're about right as they are.

[otthegreat]

Hi its me again! I'm having trouble with the Worthy Heroes mod. The computer keeps complaining about it being an RAR file or something. Help please.

[Zeldor]

Big map is a good thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I really think WoG is the best map to play on available now.

[Zeldor]

otthegreat:

Did you unpack it into /mod folder in Dominions3 folder?

[FrozenFalcon]

Well we have only 8 players now, and if it stays like that I think we should take heed on Llamabeast's suggestion and play a smaller map, maybe that customized Parganos.

Otthegreat: Mod is packed into a rar file. You have to unpack it to the /mod folder. Like Zeldor said.

[DrPraetorious]

I"m quite experienced - behold my mighty post-count! - but I do love team games and would be happy to be either paired with a relative newbie, or given, say, Ulm.

Unclaimed nations that I like and haven't played in a while (in order of preference): Arcoscephale, Oceania, T'ien Ch'i, Pythium.

Nations that would count as a handicap at least if I play them: Ulm, Caelum (boy do I suck at Caelum), Agartha, Shinuyama.

[llamabeast]

Zeldor - big map is a subjective thing at best. Personally I would probably not join a game now that went as high as 20 provinces/player let alone thirty - I just don't enjoy the crazy micromanagement and hour-long turns. This is of course very much a matter of personal taste though, and many players really enjoy the epic feel of larger maps - that's very cool, and I envy their patience. I really feel it would be a mistake for people to play their first ever MP games on such a big map though. That's just my two cents (or rather pence!), but it's a reasonably strongly-felt two pence with a fair bit of experience behind it (regard my even mightier post count! - though Dr P is probably a good bit more experienced than me and just less verbose).

This is of course, however, not actually a game I'm in, so I'll keep my nose out now.

[Zeldor]

DrP:

I think you would beat everyone here even with Ulm... that is a newbie game so Ulm is quite nice for that. The same Caelum.

llamabeast:

Yeah, I understand it. I personally love maps that give every player some time to develop and grow. I got 3 MP games and all gave around 10 provinces per nation so I am sick of it. They give almost no strategic choices, especially with pretender creation. And I really do not want to play so small maps without CB mod, cause it really limits nation choice for me.

[FrozenFalcon]

Well, I know nothing about existing maps, but I think we should try and reach a compromise about the map size. Llamabeast thinks that a huge map is not very suitable for new players, and at opposite, Zeldor is sick and tired about the small maps. WoG has 337 provinces, so it would be almost 30 provinces for a player. It may lead to boredom, so would there be a map with 15-20 provinces per player (this may be difficult to tell because we haven't locked the player amount yet)?

But as I've said, anything goes for me. If it is ok for all players and we get the full 12 (and another water nation) we can try WoG; all honor to your knowledge and experience, Llamabeast, but I think that the players should decide the map.

Of course, the new players may not have any perspective about the map sizes, so it's good to informate them about it. And I too would prefer a bit smaller map.

[Zeldor]

I was sure we agreed on WoG in previous thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif There are many garrisons and special territories [plains are hard to keep] so it doesn't feel like a huge map. And we play teams and focus on VP so no one will have to conquer all provinces, you can even keep that 20-30 provinces and have chances to win.

But of course that is just my opinion and I am not hosting the game. I think we should stick with WoG if we have 12 players and change to something smaller if we are not able to find 12 newbie people let's say till the end week.

[otthegreat]

Zeldor said:
otthegreat:

Did you unpack it into /mod folder in Dominions3 folder?



Sorry to bother you with this again but I can't find a /mod folder. There are folders titled: battlemaps, doc, maps, rawsound, and tutdata but thats it.

[Zeldor]

Then you need to create one. Just name it 'mods' [not 'mod'].

[FrozenFalcon]

Despite the huge size, WoG seems like a map I want to test, so ok, let's wait for 12 players, since there has been no objections.

[Bananadine]

My experience, again: I've played half a dozen single-player games, a couple of which were fairly large. I've become decently skilled against the AI but I haven't played against humans.

[Torin]

i would like to play. dont know wich nation yet.
ive played about half a dozen MP games. didnt win any.

[FrozenFalcon]

Torin added. Post your nation here when you have chosen it.

[BigandScary]

I will join as oceania

[Networkingguru]

I am in. Need to decide on a nation though (I HATE MA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif ). Love the WoG map, BUt I think it is going to get boring before it gets over.

[Torin]

I would like machaka or a water nation if that is needed for balance

[Networkingguru]

OK, decided. Let me give Ermor a shot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

Torin:

With WoG we have 2 slots for water nations, both are already taken http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Networkingguru:

MA is the best age http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Has advantages of both EA or MA.

[DonCorazon]

I would trust Llamabeast's advice on map, but will defer to the group. As for MP games, I am playing a few now, have yet to play any games (MPvor SP) past midgame.

[Niarg]

I say that we have a relatively small map. Since we're all fairly new (some of us don't have any MP experience) we'll want to actually fight sooner rather than just taking provinces for ages.

I'll vote for following llamabeasts advice.

[FrozenFalcon]

Deciding on the map:
Niarg's opinion: go for relatively small map
DonCorazon's : same
Zeldor's: WoG
Networkingguru's: WoG would get boring in the end
FrozenFalcon's: Anything goes

Now, that's just five opinions of the eleven, but we just have to presume that the others are ok with our choice. So would some who knows about existing maps tell me, if there are any balanced 15-20-provinces per player maps for this many players (assuming we wait for the twelfth player)? I think it would be a good compromise, since Zeldor doesn't want a very small map and others dont like it very big. We can play WoG some other time.

And I'm sorry if my opinion of the map seems changy, but that just is because I don't really have an opinion.

[llamabeast]

Cradle of Dominion would be about the size you're looking for I think (221 provinces = just over 18/player). It's also very pretty and has lots of interesting choke points and so on.

[FrozenFalcon]

Anyone against Cradle of Dominion?

One question about hosting a teamgame: how well is player positioning handled in Dominions? Since this is team game, it would be nice (allthough not necessary) that teaming players started near each other. And the teamgame, is it anyhow managed with the server or is it just rules above the game mechanics, that player themselves need to follow?

[llamabeast]

Automatic player positioning is decent although not especially evenly distributed, but it definitely won't do team placement properly. The thing to do is place the start positions manually. I guess or any other player not actually involved in the game can do that.

Dominions doesn't really have the idea of team play at all (it's every god for himself), so its the players themselves who have to follow rules. Don't move your army into your teammate's army, for instance.

[Bananadine]

I have no special map preference. I just hope that anybody who thinks they might get bored on whatever map we choose is willing to commit to playing anyway, if they're going to be part of the game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gregstrom]

Well spoken, Bananadine.

How are we handling team assignments?

[Zeldor]

The problem with most of the maps except for WoG [and some others] is that if all players have the same skill starting positions can really influence a lot who wins. I have seen that on Uraparrand - there are extremely good and bad starting positions available. Cradle of Dominions doesn't look fair too. And placing teams on not-wraparound map with irregular shape will be impossible.

I vote so heavily for WoG not because it is big, but because every players has the same starting location and it is only up to his skill and diplomacy, not luck.

[Torin]

im in favor of a wraparound

[llamabeast]

The thing is, unfairness due to placement pales into insignifance compared to the "injustices" resulting from diplomacy, particular nations' differences etc.. Dominions just isn't the kind of game where you can aim for that.

I mean, imagine you start next to MA Ermor. If you're Ulm, you're probably stuffed - there's no way you can deal with all those undead. If you're C'tis or Pythium, you'll laugh at them. This is "unfair", but interesting, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Actually I think it's very cool. You just have to remember that Dominions is not chess.

Sorry Zeldor, I'm sure I'm really winding you up here, because you obviously really want to play on World of Geometry and I'm obviously not being very encouraging for that on this thread. This is just because I really, really like Dominions and I want other people to get into it too, so it's hard not to offer advice which I think will make people enjoy the game more, and I honestly feel that playing on such a huge map for your first MP game (not yours, but some other players') is a terrible idea. Regardless, if this game does not end up being played on WoG, you can always just make a new post for a World of Geometry game, explicitly stating it is a massive map and the game will last a long time (six months to a year I'd guess) and you will have enough players in no time, and I would be more than happy to host the game for you.

Incidentally I have to agree that WoG is a lovely map. I wonder if Twan would be interested in making a version with less provinces. And also, apologies again for poking my nose in.

[MartialDoctor]

Sounds like you guys still need a final player. I'll join in as Arcoscephale.

[Gregstrom]

After some thought, I'm with Llamabeast on the map issue. An over-large map would be pretty bad for micromanagement. And I'd rather have an interesting game than a prefectly balanced one, too.

[Zeldor]

llamabeast:

I don't care about nearby nations, I care about getting 3 or 6 capitol neighbours. Or getting wasteland only or bad terrains. Or having 4 or 5 nations near me, while others have for example 2. And even with diplomacy the one with better starting position has diplomacy options too and will use them.

I just want to play on a fair map. I love dominions, but 95% maps are good only on SP, not MP. Twan made a great map like WoG, but it is the only one that is really good and supports MP games [except for really small maps].

[Torin]

im ok with WoG. or a Wraparaound instead of an unbalanced map. unbalanced=boring.

[llamabeast]

95% maps are good only on SP, not MP



Well, I guess that's obviously subjective. I don't think it's generally considered much of a problem, and it's not like there hasn't been many MP games going on. There are of course a few notably unbalanced maps (e.g. unmodified Parganos), which I agree should be avoided. But such problems are easily corrected - e.g. if manually placing start positions (which I recommend), you should simply choose start positions with similar numbers of neighbours. And putting one player in the middle of a load of wasteland or something would be silly, so you wouldn't do it. With Parganos I just altered a lot of the terrain so it is much fairer.

I have to agree that letting Dominions do the capital placement and using random maps both tend to lead to quite unfair positions, and aren't as good an idea.


I don't care about nearby nations, I care about getting 3 or 6 capitol neighbours. Or getting wasteland only or bad terrains. Or having 4 or 5 nations near me, while others have for example 2.



Actually you've just pretty much listed the problems which can be easily fixed by manual capital placement.

[Zeldor]

llamabeast:

It really narrows map choices. I hope Twan makes a smaller map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I will take a look at new Parganos, but Crafle isn't wraparound and that alone makes it unbalanced [there is no way to have balance even with manualy placing capitols]. And with a team play [I know that is not dominions goal, but it is fun] it is even harder. You need 2 players as one place but both need enough space to expand.

P.S. Parganos would be too small for that game...

[DrPraetorious]

How many teams?

If it's six pairs and-no-water, you could use the map from allegiances 2, which is the best balance we could get without wrap-around.

Each pair of teams is arranged as spokes on a wheel, and the distances among teams and territory easily available to each team are very close to equal. But again, it has no water.

[FrozenFalcon]

We have now 12 players. Now, Zeldor seems to absolutely want to play WoG. Llamabeast, have you played the map, and can you absolutely say that it really takes months to finish, or is your estimation based on purely the province count? Because WoG does have that Victory Province.

I think that even "unbalanced" map works, there's always luck included in the game, like Llamabeast said, this is not chess. And because being in a good position gives you advantage, it also gives you diplomatical disadvantage if players find this out, because advantage makes threat and being threatening can be disadvantage.

Zeldor, if we choose Cradle of Dominion, can you play it, or are you absolutely against it? We have 12 players now, so when we get the map decided we can set a deadline for Pretenders and start playing. Of course, we need to set teams.

[llamabeast]

Nope, I haven't played the map, and the estimated time is just from map size. I guess the VP might help. It's very hard to judge how it might work out actually.

Dr P's suggestion does sound like a good third option to me. I believe they put a good deal of thought into it.

There is of course also always the possibility of making it two games - one for those who want WoG, one for those who would like a smaller map.

Just so everyone knows by the way, this degree of indecision doesn't normally happen when organising MP games. This one's been unusual because the original organiser disappeared and it's sort of been organised by committee. Generally the organiser just acts as a benevolent dictator.

[MartialDoctor]

Hmmmm, after looking through the maps, my vote is for Cradle of Dominions or a similar sized one. Dr. P's suggestion sounds good except don't we have a couple of water nations?

World of Geometry is far too large, with 337 provinces, for 12 people.

[DrPraetorious]

If you guys want to make sure that the game finishes in a reasonable amount of time, use Victory Point accumulation. First player to reach threshold - his team wins (even if he is eliminated.)

Arrange six pairs of start locations like spokes on a wheel on any old random map. With one water team, ~1/6 of the area should be water (which is about 1/10 of the provinces so the water players have to have some presence on land if they wish to compete.)

Place 6 victory points on the map, one in between each spoke. You might want to put some other bonuses in those province as well.

Someone will certainly have accumulated 7 VP by year 4, 10 VP by year 5, or 15 VP by year 6 - and that's an upper limit, it could easily end much sooner.

Getting the water right is actually the hardest part of such a map - but if you tell me how many provinces you want I can post an example.

[FrozenFalcon]

How does victory points actually work? You get one from a VP province each month and a certain limit is set?

Another question: WoG has four "Gateways" that supposedly lead to the isle. How do they work? Is there some sort of teleportation on game mechanics of is the Gateway part just some lore stuff and you cannot really go through gateways?

But since we have gathered 12 players, and we have 2 water nations, just for WoG, I want to try it.

Our team experiences are near similar, so I'll randomize the rest (Zeldor and HJFudge gaining a minor advantage when choosing teams but let's just not care about that).

Llamabeast is probably right that listening to everyone's opinion takes time, so I'll declare myself a dictator and make the rest of the decisions.

Teams:

HJFudge and Zeldor
FrozenFalcon and Torin
DonCorazon and Niarg
Bananadine and Gregstorm
otthegreat and MartialDoctor
BigandScary and Networkingguru

Since there's new information (the teams and map decided) everyone absolutely against these decisions can leave now. We cannot make everyone happy. The teams (except for the first one) are completely random.

Then, I need to decide on Pretender deadline (is 3 days ok?) and then Llamabeast can host the server.

To make decisions about victory points I need to know the answers for my questions asked in this post.

[Zeldor]

I have played WoG in SP to check it [not the last version though] and just started MP game on it [turn4].

Twan made it and suggests to play on cumulative VP of 3. From what I know about mechanics of VP they are given at the first summer month of a year. And you do not need to keep them in a row, for 3 VP you need to have that province for 3 first months of any years.

There are I think 8 provinces connecting to the center island + water provinces around it [8 too, I think], co 16 including 4 gateways.

I don't know how many cumulative VP we would need for team-play. Oh, do not set any additional VPs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Gateway is just a name. There is simply long arrow connecting gateway to the center island. So a player doesn't have to go through plains but can go through caves instead.

P.S. I am not so heavily for WoG, I am just really a huge supporter of making the map as balanced as possible [I wish Twan set every indie province on the map to make it equal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif]. I know that not wrap-around provinces are not fair.


I haven't check the map Dr. P suggested, I have nothing against non-water maps, but it is just me.

[DrPraetorious]

There are two different VP systems.

In one system, you have to control X VP provinces, and then you win.

In the other system, each VP province you control gives you one VP/year. I forget when in the year the VP accrue. This is the system that I (not to mention the designers) recommend if you want to control game length.

It's also a nice system because it becomes more difficult (albeit not impossible) to win in a single turn by ambushing a bunch of VP provinces at once.

[FrozenFalcon]

Ok, Victory Points are settled then. I think 2 will be enough (map readme recommends 2-4). Think about the length: 6 teams charging to the center (one player needs the points, not a team), taking few years to travel there, at maximum. Then, the province will be always controlled by someone (if teammates organize, they will try to get the second point to the player from the team who got the first one) and after six years of center fight, if the game has not ended, each team should have a victory point. Next team to get one wins. Traveling included, this would be 8 years maximum, or 76 turns. So with 24h quickhost, it would take 76 turns max. And this is the absolute maximum IMO. I think that would not be too much.

Edit: is there a connection from land provinces around the island to it? Zeldor's post would tell that, but there seems to be no land connection. But there apparently can be, and if so, there should be connection from land, otherwise water nations gain an advantage.

[Gregstrom]

I might want to change nation choice for synergy with my teammate - will that cause any problems?

[FrozenFalcon]

Since you are not playing water nation that's ok.

And everyone else have this opportunity too. But for the water nations, it would be good that they remained.

When you have absolutely sure about your nation, start making pretenders already (mine is ready). Then we just need Llamabeast to set the game up.

Checked the center province connections: The Victory Province has a land connection from both sides. 10 provinces from you can access the province, as for total.

[Zeldor]

FrozenFalcon:

I have just checked to be sure:

- 2 land connections from plains [one north, one south]
- 4 gateways
- 4 water provinces around it

The central island has:
- Sphinx 6E6A6D, with stone idol and gems
- Celestial General, with Hell Sword, Spirit Helmet, Jade Armor, Chi Shoes, Pendant of Luck, Amulet of Resilience
- Lord of War with Sword of Swiftness, Shield of Gleaming Gold, Horned Helmet, Boots of the Messenger, Amulet of Missile Protection, Ring of Regeneration
- few Crushers

[of course it could change in newer map versions].

And with team game I think 3-5 VP are better, counted for a whole team, not one player [so set a double limit for a player and end game manually if one team has enough VP].

P.S. If one player from a team dies and he had like 2 VP cumulated, does that team lose that VP or keep them?

[Zeldor]

Oh, standard settings or a big higher [125 or 150] for gold? Just asking because I want to make pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Hmm, FrozenFalcon's 2VP calculation is pretty cool. 76 turns is not too long at all. I can see that even 3VP would probably be fine (as it's unlikely that all 6 teams will keep on swapping control of the VP province).

It will be a crazy and bizarre game, with almost all attention focussed in one area. But while it will be a strange game I guess the VP thing will make it interesting and quite intense. Good work on converging on a decision.

Dominions will not handle the fact that teams will share VPs, so that'll have to be done manually, i.e. say you are going for 3 VPs, player 1 has 1 VP, player 2 has 2 VP and they are on the same team, you will just have to declare the game over. The game engine itself won't do that for you.

I can set up the game to accept pretenders whenever (don't need any details at all) - just give me a game name. FrozenFalcon - I heartily approve of your taking dictator status, excellent work. Good to get things organised.

[Zeldor]

FrozenFalcon:

You forgot to mention that we use latest Worthy Heroes.

llamabeast:

I think 3 would be better, more strategic options.

[FrozenFalcon]

Let's have standard gold.

We can settle it as 3 VP:s per team, points for dropped players count too.

I have the newest version of WoG, and I have the same connections to the center. The documentation says that the center is 9 territories away from a starting point, so my guess about 2 years for center is definitely above maximum.

As for battle for VP:s, it takes now 13 years max so someone will definitely have 3 VP:s. And this time will probably be much smaller.

So, it is possible that the game goes on for a long time, but it can end in less than 4 years.

I think we have all settled then, now just Pretenders and server.

And nation from Gregstorm. And all need to download the map and Worthy Heroes mod.

[Zeldor]

You need to place nations manually on the map so teams start next to each other. And then we need to use that map, I think. Or just llamaserver? Cause you can get info about starting positions from map file that way?

[llamabeast]

I need to modify the map, but you guys don't need my modified version, only the server does. The map information is, surprisingly, encoded in the turn files the server sends out. Of course you need to download the map anyway so that you have the actual picture.

FrozenFalcon - can you give me a name for the game?

[Bananadine]

Can you give us (since we are new) specific instructions on what to download, what to send, etc.?

[llamabeast]

Sure. Um, I can't quite face finding the threads to link to right now. But the map is top of the Mods and Maps subforum at the moment. Download the attachment and unzip it into your dominions3/maps folder.

Worthy Heroes is further down the page in the Mods and Maps forum, but I think it's still on the front page. Download it and stick the bits from the zip into the appropriate folders.

I'll post instructions on uploading pretenders once I've created the game (just need a name).

[FrozenFalcon]

World of Geometry (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=565082)
Worthy Heroes (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=560854)

First is the map, latter is a mod. You need to extract the first to your map directory at your dominions directory, and the latter to your dominions directory (it already contains the mods directory assignment itself so at least Winrar can unpack it correctly if you use the dom directory).

The mod needs to be turned on. It can be done at Preferences menu.

When you have your Pretender ready, send it to the host (Llamabeast'll inform us about the proper adress, I guess). You'll find it \savedgames\newlords\ at your dominions directory, it'll look something like mid_yournation_x.2h.

When the game is ready, you'll receive .trn-file, which you have to put a directory named as the game (at /savedgames, you'll have to greate a directory /epikbattel/ (typos intended) and put the .trn-file you'll receive from host there. Then, start dominions, select play existing game, play your turn and select save and exit. At the game directory, you'll now find a file that has the game name and ending .2h (for example, epikbattel.2h). This you send to host. Then host waits for all the files and runs a turn and sents the trn-files and so on.

Hope it became clear. Llamabeast'll fill out if I missed anything or was wrong / vague in something.

So, I've decided the game name will be EpikBattel. Let's set the Pretender deadline on friday of this week; I believe all who have signed have that much time at some point.

Llamabeast will tell all the adresses needed for playing the game; here (http://www.llamaserver.net/index.cgi) is the monitoring site for his server, so you can see who have done their turns or who have yet to send their pretenders and so on.

[Zeldor]

Please remember that you MUST have the mod enabled while creating the pretender, otherwise there can be problem [I think it would reject a pretender].

[llamabeast]

Hi Zeldor - can I just ask that you take down/mung the addresses there? I'm really trying to avoid getting got by too many spambots.

All the instructions for submitting a pretender, and later for playing turns, are in my FAQ (linked in my signature).

[llamabeast]

Okay, the game is now accepting pretenders. To be explicit about what you need to do:

Firstly, you should only join a game if you've found there's a thread for it on this board, you've read it, and they're still looking for players. Then you should post on the thread saying what nation you'll be. To actually join the game:

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'EpikBattel' in the subject line of your e-mail

A few minutes later you should get a confirmation e-mail, and if you check the website (www.llamaserver.net ) you should find your nation added to the list of nations which have joined the game.

[Zeldor]

Oh, sorry for that. Forgot about that issues http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Networkingguru]

llamabeast said:
Hi Zeldor - can I just ask that you take down/mung the addresses there? I'm really trying to avoid getting got by too many spambots.

All the instructions for submitting a pretender, and later for playing turns, are in my FAQ (linked in my signature).



Is that true for Worthy Heroes? I thought that was only the case for mods that modify the pretender itself? At least I thought I had read that somewhere...

Anyhow, how do you guys separate the pretenders with and without mods? Last time I started a MP game, I don't remember it asking for the pretender to use, it just seemed to pick one...

[Zeldor]

Networkingguru:

Well, I think it is not worth taking the risk and as it is newbie game we should all make good habits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You should know what name you give. But pretenders for the same age/nation are named like mid_mictlan_0.2h then _1.2h _2.2h and so on.

You can create a pretender if you play by network, I think. But with PBEM game exists only [well, almost] on hosting server. And he needs all pretenders to create the game.

[DrPraetorious]

So does llamabeast have the start-location placement taken care of or do you want me to handle that? (I do this a lot and am happy to help.)

Have all of you finalized your nation choices?

[FrozenFalcon]

Gregstorm said that he might want to change his nation, but everyone else has decided.

[DonCorazon]

I'll be out of country w/o Dominions access from around Dec 21-29. Unless other people also plan to take a break around then, I should give up my seat so I don't slow down the game...

[llamabeast]

Networkingguru is correct that the worthy heroes mod doesn't matter when making a pretender. Mods only matter if they affect the costs/availabilities of pretenders. Hence conceptual balance can screw things up. But worthy heroes is fine.

Dr P - if you wouldn't mind doing the start positions I would really really appreciate it.

[FrozenFalcon]

I will be too having a christmas-holiday at end of december, and I bet many others will be having holidays, so I think we can take a break from game then, is this ok to all?

[Gregstrom]

I'm perfectly happy for a Christmas break. It'll take the pressure off people.

On another note, I'll change from Pangaea to Pythium.

[otthegreat]

Much better to have a Christmas break than force people off the game when we're so close to starting.

[Zeldor]

I am sure we should have a break at least 23-27th december.

I know I will need to have a break from 17 to 18 or 19 cause I will be on a plane going home for Christmas. But we should have 48h hosting by then.

[BigandScary]

how about we have a quickhost with no time limit during the holidays. That way, if anyone finds the time and wants to they can play, if not, not.

[Zeldor]

It seems like a good solution. But I would encourage people in teams to play for each other if it is possible. At least before 23rd and after 26th.

[MartialDoctor]

I like BigandScary's idea there. I will be gone for a few days as well (around the 20th - 23rd) and will not have access to play.

On another note, Niarg and I would prefer playing on a team together. Would it be possible to switch teams?

[DonCorazon]

Fine with me.

So I guess that means I will be teamed with otthegreat - Marignon

[Niarg]

I'm going away this weekend so can we start on monday, I'll upload my god then.

[FrozenFalcon]

I'll fix the teams on the first post... I hope that this team swapping won't mean much extra work for Dr. P who arranges the player positions.

[otthegreat]

Um ... so what happened to a start on todayish. I don't really mind, I was too busy anyway, just hope something hasn't happened that I should know about.

[Bananadine]

I don't think you've missed anything--I've been checking and it appears that Arcoscephale (ah that delicious unpronouncable name!) only just joined within the past few hours, bringing us to 12 nations. So I guess we can start soon... but I don't think anybody has fired the starting gun yet. Whatever that means.

[Zeldor]

Do we have the map ready with start locations? Or do we wait for patch 3.12? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[llamabeast]

Oh whoops, I've been ill and this game had slipped off my radar. I'll try to sort it out later today, but I don't know if I'll have a chance. I think Dr P didn't notice that we asked if he could sort the map out, so I suppose I'd better do it. Not too big a job.

Are teammates meant to be adjacent or opposite?

[FrozenFalcon]

Adjacent (As you see water nations pairing with land nations; this is the whole point of needing 2 water nations, so we can have 6 teams and each starting adjacent to their teammate).

[llamabeast]

Okay, adjacent it is.

Sorry guys, I really won't be able to start this today. It'll be tomorrow night now. Apologies for the delay.

[MartialDoctor]

Bananadine said:
I don't think you've missed anything--I've been checking and it appears that Arcoscephale (ah that delicious unpronouncable name!) only just joined within the past few hours, bringing us to 12 nations. So I guess we can start soon... but I don't think anybody has fired the starting gun yet. Whatever that means.



Yeah, my apologies. I was awaiting the confirmation that Dr. P had switched the teams over. Then I realized, after looking at llamaserver, that everyone was waiting on me, so I quickly made my God.

[FrozenFalcon]

Damn it, seems that I have forgotten my password. I found a thread about it; it is not retrievable, but master password can open the turn. How does it work? Does the game have a master password? Of course, this could be restarted because we are still at turn one.

I am very sorry people, I thought that I had picked a password that I can remember but apparently not.

[llamabeast]

You'll all notice I started the game twice - please use the second one. The first I started by accident with indies 8, which I thought was important enough to be worth a restart (since you would all have designed pretenders for indies 5).

FrozenFalcon - I'll send you the master password. It's not so dodgy to do so with a PBEM game since you can't peek at each other's turns anyway.

Everyone - FrozenFalcon will be the admin for this game, so if you want e.g. a turn postponing, please contact him.

[FrozenFalcon]

Thanks, llamabeast.

One more thing: as opposed of what I thought, there seems to be 2 victory provinces (this is due to server setting; I'm not sure if it is Llamabeast's decicion or not). This propably won't be a problem since they seem to be at equal distance from all players; this will only mean that the game will go on shorter time. But still, because of one VP per year, I think the game is going to last for a while.

[Gregstrom]

It's good to be getting started, though.

For the map, I've just renamed worldofgeometry.tga as worldofgeometry2.tga. I presume that's the correct thing to do.

[FrozenFalcon]

I think we may need to restart again.. there seems to be 3 Victory Provinces, and the third one is not balanced. Llamabeast seems to have mixed up the Victory condition settings.

I'll just go them in detail here so we won't need any more restarts.

When making the game, click "Standard Victory" and select "Victory Points (cumulative)". I think we agreed on 3 VP:s and they need to be for the same team, not player. So, Required Victory Points 3, Nbr of 1 vp provinces 1, all others 0.

The Required Victory Points 3 just ensures that the game cannot end before a team has 3 points, but it does not end the game if two players collect the points, so in that case, game will be declared as finished.

Gregstorm: yes. Llamabeast propably renamed the map so he won't lose the original version of it. We just need the picture of the map, but game wants that its name is the same as the map's name so... I may be needlessly complicated, but yes. Rename the picture.

[Torin]

llamaserver wont accept my turn
says: "2h for unknown game"

[FrozenFalcon]

When loading the game, you need to have the trn file in a savegame directory exactly named as the game: EpikBattel. I think that may be the problem.

But we need to restart nevertheless, due to the victory point mess-up.

[Zeldor]

We cannot have more than 1 VP province.

[DonCorazon]

Game crashes when I try to take my turn. Says it "cannot find map image worldofgeometry2.tga

I downloaded the World of Geometry map and have a map file, though it is called worldofgeometry.tga (doesn't have the "2")

[Gregstrom]

See 5 posts above.

[DonCorazon]

!!
Thanks.

[Bananadine]

Err I sent in my 2h for Abysia yesterday evening, but it still says I haven't on the llamaserver site. I just responded to the message containing the first .trn file, and attached my .2h file. Was that right?

[FrozenFalcon]

It should be right; However, we need to restart this game, like I've said. I've sent a private message for Llamabeast, but I haven't got a reply yet.

[Zeldor]

Map got somehow corrupted and there are more VP than 1. It sometimes happens on games hosted on llamaserver for unknown reason.

[Niarg]

So we definitely don't need to worry about turns until the game is restarted?

[Zeldor]

Yes.

And then comes Christmas break so I think game will go faster after new year.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I have restarted again and hopefully fixed the map issue. Hope it's okay now.

It is unbelievable how much goes wrong as soon as you go away on holiday! My friends are all sitting around waiting and staring at me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Gregstrom]

Many thanks Llamabeast. Enjoy the holiday.

[FrozenFalcon]

The map actually was not corrupted; the server settings set the Victory Provinces. The map itself has 1 Victory Province set, so the first will be there; the rest will be set randomly, I guess. But now there should be only 1 VP Province.

[llamabeast]

Mr. Falcon is correct. By default Dominions seems to add a few VPs. But I've now found the switch to set the number of added VPs, so this time I set it to zero.

It was quite lucky actually that the mistake was visible, since I completely forgot to set the VP settings the first/second time. Now it is correctly set to accumulate VPs each summer, with 3 VPs being needed for victory. Of course most probably the VPs will be acquired by more than one member of a team, so the victory will have to be determined manually by the players.

[Bananadine]

I've sent another .2h and it still says it is waiting. :!

[Gregstrom]

It called mine a resend...

You should get some sort of acknowledgement message.

[Bananadine]

Well I didn't! How is it to know who I am anyway? Does it know me by e-mail address or does it actually look into the file? The thingy said it doesn't matter what you put in the subject or body of your message, so it can't be that. And the file name only appears to indicate nation, so it can't be that.

Oh what is wrong!

[Bananadine]

Hmm it is starting to appear that there is something wrong with that e-mail address. Can I maybe switch to another address? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Torin]

The 2h file this is.

[Gregstrom]

I suspect you need to send from the email account llamaserver sends the turn to (as per above, the turn *must* be run in a folder called 'epikbattel' - note spelling. If it isn't, you may get problems similar to those you describe).

If all else fails, you can switch to another email address - FrozenFalcon or Llamabeast can help there, as it's in the admin options.

[Bananadine]

Err I called mine "EpikBattel". But anyhow the e-mail problem is subsuming any trouble that will arise from the name. I know this because I just got my e-mail to llamaserver bounced back, and also because I can't get a test message to be sent from my address to another address I have. So I think I will switch to gmail or something, I think I can depend on their servers. I will send a PM to FrozenFalcon, since he is actually playing with us and llamabeast sounds busy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[FrozenFalcon]

I'm having trouble with the admin password, I've sent llamabeast a private message about it, if he could check the password and resend it.

[Bananadine]

This seems like a good time to ask what happens when somebody misses a turn--are they treated as if they just chose not to do anything? That wouldn't be so bad for me, since I'm not exactly in a tight military situation just yet.

[Gregstrom]

You're dead on the money as to what happens. Missing your first turn's purchase orders can be fairly serious, though.

[FrozenFalcon]

Password is fixed now and Bananadine's email is changed, hope it works now (and he has time to post his turn).

One more thing. A player cannot post a turn in 2 days next week, so I'll turn the 24h hosting off. Same will be done in christmas break. I do not like to pause the game, but the start-game can be important. If anyone of you is going to a trip and cannot post turn in many days, PM me. But don't use this too much, or else the 24h limit will lose it's purpose (to keep the game in decent length).

[Bananadine]

Okay, I sent my mail and it worked!

[Niarg]

Out of interest, what happens if we send another 2h file to Llamaserver?

Will it reject the new file or will it overwrite the old turn?

[llamabeast]

It'll overwrite. So if you suddenly have a cunning plan and want to change your orders, you can.

[BigandScary]

I need to quit this game, so I have found someone to take my place. His name is JZ. I will send him the pretender and this turn, but the e-mails will need to be sent to him now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[FrozenFalcon]

PM me his email.

[BigandScary]

I will, as soon as he sends it to me.

[Zeldor]

I am at home and I will be able to play today evening [gmt +1], then I can play normally.

[FrozenFalcon]

Server has all but BigandScary's turn, has there been any progress on getting the address of your substitute?

Also, the hosting will be in few hours, it may be so that his substitute must skip this turn, because I am not eager to postpone the server more.

[DonCorazon]

If your substitute takes this long to get you his email, it may not be a good sign for timeliness in getting turns in. Anyway, I'll be leaving country Dec 21-29 but hope to find a way to get turns in.

[Zeldor]

Maybe llamabeast can change something so teammates can play for others? From what I know now you cannot submit turns for 2 nations from the same e-mail.

[JZ]

Had busy start of week, so I replied only now.
I don't think there will be troubles with getting my turns in.

[llamabeast]

You can submit turns for 2 nations from the same e-mail from a server point of view - but not from a Dominions point of view, since it will throw up a CD-key error. So unless you have two copies of Dominions you can't play for your teammate.

Incidentally I now have five. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bananadine]

NEWS FLASH TO SELF: GMT is not what you thought it was. I have missed a turn for a silly reason. Sorry, teammate!

[FrozenFalcon]

JZ, send me your email so I can change it for server. Then you can request turn resending.

[MartialDoctor]

I will be away for the next 3 days. I hope to be able to make the turns during this time but I am not positive I will have access. I would really appreciate it if we could have a longer turn duration for the next turn or two.

If, for whatever reason, this can't be done, llamabeast, please send my turns to Niarg, my teammate.

Thanks!

[DonCorazon]

All,
I will be leaving for the Dominican Republic Dec 21-29. I am hoping to have internet access to take turns but not confirmed.

[FrozenFalcon]

I will turn the 24h limit off now, and I will resume it 30. December. This is because mayn have christmas holidays in this time. Still, post your turns if you can.

[llamabeast]

MartialDoctor: Just so you know, I often don't read all the threads for all the games on the LlamaServer, so if you want me to do something it's best to PM me. Having said that, almost everything can be done by your game admin (the kind FrozenFalcon), so even better, PM him.

Also your teammate can't take your turn for you unless he has two copies of Dominions. If he does try, one of the nations will stale because of a CD key clash.

[llamabeast]

Hey FrozenFalcon, would you mind updating the first post to show JZ as the Oceania player rather than BigandScary? Confused me there for a minute, and also it would be helpful for players wanting to contact him for diplomacy.

[otthegreat]

Bananadine said:
NEWS FLASH TO SELF: GMT is not what you thought it was. I have missed a turn for a silly reason. Sorry, teammate!



I also missed a turn, partially due to Vista (curse you!) and partially to GMT. What is the conversion to EST?

[Zeldor]

EST is GMT - 5.

[llamabeast]

If you're not sure just take a look at the website, and it says "Current time" at the bottom of the game page. You can then compare that to what you think the current time is (being as it's given in GMT).

[Torin]

People are uninstalling vista nowadays.

[Zeldor]

I am waiting for new patch for Enemy Territory: Quake Wars so I can install kubuntu and do not open Vista http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gregstrom]

Any chance we could put the quickhost timing to 30 hours? At the moment the timing seems to edge towards 1400 or so, which is a little awkward for me and possibly other UK players.

[FrozenFalcon]

I can postpone hosting by x hours, to time the hosting on midnight for Europe, but then it would be at middle of the day for Americans. And theoretically, the time of hosting should not matter unless the time you are able to spend on your computer is exactly the same time the game will be hosted.

Anyways, the game hosting interwall is now 30 hours. Now, everyone should be able to post their turns.

[MartialDoctor]

Did a turn get skipped? I had submitted my turn 6 on Monday and, this morning, I had a message saying that the turn is due... I checked on llamaserver and now we are on turn 8...

I never received turn 7 at any point.

[Gregstrom]

My particular problem was this: I tend to play my turns during the day, when I don't have net access. So I download in the morning, play the turn in breaks during the day, and mail it in during the evening, in between family commitments. A host time of 1420 GMT played havok with this.

More generally, on 24h quickhost the submission deadlines will creep forward with every turn generated until they're causing someone inconvenience.

[edit] I think llamabeast keeps archives of previous turns. If there's been an issue with turns not being sent out he might be able to roll back.

[FrozenFalcon]

At least I have received turn 7. Most of the others had posted it too; I'm not sure where the problem is.

[Gregstrom]

It seems rather odd that we'd have 3 stales over one turn, especially now we're out of the holiday period.

[DonCorazon]

MD, you aren't the only one.

I had same issue - could have sworn I have turned in all turns I received very quickly but somehow staled last turn - appears I missed turn 7 in my inbox.

Will be more careful going forward as I got the 6 hour warning at midnight while sleeping then woke up to find I'd staled.

[Niarg]

I'm happy to redo the turn.

Are we going to vote on what to do or will Falcon sort it out?

[Zeldor]

And some people missed the turn due to unexpected hosting in new year's eve. I am not a fan of redoing turns, but if host decides to do so I will live it that. That is early stage so we have almost nothing to lose [unless someone got really nice event].

[Gregstrom]

I'm for a reissue of last turn (although I'm not entirely disinterested - my teammate was one of those who staled).

There's no inter-player conflict yet AFAIK, so I don't think a rerun would disadvantage anyone.

[Bananadine]

I'm for a reissue of last turn (although I'm not entirely disinterested - my teammate was one of those who staled).



It is true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I got all the appropriate e-mails--it just happened that the one day I was away from my computer the most during the holiday was also the day of the deadline. Part of the learning experience I guess, although of course I would not mind getting a new chance (it would be nice to find out just how that battle went)! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[FrozenFalcon]

Well, I'm not sure if the reissuing of the turn is possible (it depends from if Llamaserver keeps an archive of the trn-files or not) but surely I can't do that. The game itself does not save old trn-files so it may be that the seventh turn can't be sent again. Otherwise it would be just reconfiguring the server's automatics. But if you can live with it, I think that it would be best to let it go and hope that the missed turns won't matter. But if you absolutely need redoing turns, I'm not against it; you just need to contact Llamabeast about it.

[llamabeast]

I can roll back the turn, but I don't have archives of the old trn files, so I can't help if you didn't receive one (although that's very unusual). This is something I intend to fix soon - hopefully in the next week or so in fact (I am going to have a coding blitz in the next few days hopefully).

Let me know if you want to roll the turn back.

[DonCorazon]

I have my turn 7 file. I vote for a redo but won't complain if we just move on as I admit it was my own mistake as I did have the turn 7 file in my inbox. And to think i sat around bored playing SP on Jan 1 not even realizing I had a fresh turn in my box. Argh...

[Niarg]

I've got my turn 7 file and I think we should redo the turn but you've got to make a decision quickly...

[FrozenFalcon]

Well, if anyone hasn't deleted the message and all received the file, let's redo the turn. Some kind of announcement has to be made, but I think there's an admin option for that.

[MartialDoctor]

Yeah, it turns out that I actually had the file... apparently, my spam blocker all of a sudden decided that llamabeasts turn files are, sometimes (but not all the time), spam. I didn't even think to look in my spam folder because my other game's files were coming in.

My apologizes and thanks for the redo.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I've rolled back the game to turn 7, and used the admin option FrozenFalcon mentioned to send you all a message. Unfortunately everyone will need to send their 2h files for turn 7 in again.

[Zeldor]

We should roll back to turn6 then, 3 or 4 people staled there. That is unfair to roll one turn because some people forgot about it.

[Bananadine]

Huh, was I one of them? I'm not sure which one I missed, but I don't want this to get too silly so I'll just keep quiet and play whatever turns come my way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Ssh Zeldor. I've done the rollback, it can't be undone, nor can it be rolled back further. I wouldn't normally roll back just because someone forgot, but I think holiday chaos is a good excuse.

Anyway, only 2 people staled turn 6 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Zeldor]

I hope that I get a really good event at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Remember to resend your turn 7s guys! Received zero so far.

[Niarg]

Can I also suggest that 6 hours does not seem enough of a warning to send turns in, maybe increase it to 12 hours, especially as we're on a 30 hour quickhost now.

[FrozenFalcon]

Done. This should be no problem to anyone, since the time without being reminded is still 20 hours, which is still longer than with 6 hour reminder and 24 hour interwall.

[DonCorazon]

I sent my turn in 7 twice - the first one didn't seem to take (no receipt for over an hour), though once I re-sent it I got the Llama message it had rec'd both.

[Zeldor]

Can we postpone hosting? There seems to be something wrong with my teammate HJFudge. He did that turn but now he would stale 2 times in a row.

I think I will have to find a sub for him. Can we postpone hosting by 24 hours?

[FrozenFalcon]

Sorry Zeldor, I did not receive your message in time. R'lyeh indeed has now staled 2 turns; try to find a sub for him if you need to. As for the hosting, I can give you extra time because it propably would take more than 30 hours to first find a sub, get him the turn (allthough there's a server option to send it) and him to send the 2h file to the server. Sorry again for not checking the forums in time.

[Zeldor]

He sent the last one, strange. Can you try to contact him? I have tried for over a week and nothing...

[DonCorazon]

There should be a way of rating players to know who is reliable.

I am relatively new to Dominions and PBEM games in general but a bit disappointed by how often players tend to disappear w/o any notice or quit in the middle of the game.

[Ironhawk]

Thats funny - I've actually noticed the opposite about dom players. Every now and then someone just disappears, but usually they will warn in the thread that they are going to be away and/or find a temp/perm replacement.

Are you playing mostly with newer players? Might be that the ppl you are playing against havent been filtered out yet.

[DonCorazon]

Yes, now that you mention all the issues have been in noob games. Also, I have not played any other PBEM games so have nothing to benchmark to.

[Gregstrom]

R'lyeh seems to have sent in a turn. Do we have a new player, or is HJFudge back?

[Zeldor]

I have no idea. He had previous sent last time but didn't resend it now. He got subbed in one game and now I found a sub for him in Urapara cause he was going to stale 3rd turn and there was no word from him.

I didn't hear from him for over 2 weeks, so something is not right. Even if he is playing R'lyeh but is irresponsive he would probably need a forced sub, cause it is team game. And it would be like playing team game with AI.

[Zeldor]

My turn went totally insane... I have lost few mages just like that, lost about 30 troops in one place, then got some strange mages that shouldn't even exist... probably nothing major, but funny http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gregstrom]

I take it you're talking about more than sirens and animists from random events here.

[Zeldor]

My warrior got transferred into commander, some of my other commanders just disappeared. Also my mercenary shows as mercenary of Marignon in mercenary tab.

[otthegreat]

Hey, I paid good money to out bid you for those mercenaries and now I only get them for one turn and they disappear! - all while somehow technically still belonging to me?

[Zeldor]

I won them and spent a lot of gold on them. Did you have them at all? From what I remember you had them for 3 months, then I paid more and received them normally. So you had them 3 or 4 months?

[FrozenFalcon]

Besides HJFudge, another problem seems to be MartialDoctor, who's playing Acroscephale. MartialDoctor staled last turn, and seems to stale this too. Zeldor cannot contact HJFudge who seems to stale this turn too; I'll postpone hosting by 24 hours to give their teammates time to contact them / find substitutes.

[Agema]

Hi, Gregstrom told me subs might be needed, I'm willing to take over until the player gets back or permanently if needed.

[otthegreat]

Zeldor said:
I won them and spent a lot of gold on them. Did you have them at all? From what I remember you had them for 3 months, then I paid more and received them normally. So you had them 3 or 4 months?



On the redone turn (7) I checked the mercenaries and saw that you only had them for one more month. I bid on them and on turn 8 they appeared in my province. On turn 9 they had disappeared yet they still appeared as mine on the mercenary tab. Not a big deal, I'm just kind of confused.

[MartialDoctor]

Yeah, sorry about my delay guys. I am just too pressed for time to be playing this game - I should have thought ahead of time before signing up for this. However, at the time of sign up, I figured I could find the time for it.

I will continue to do my turns while I look for a substitute.

[Gregstrom]

See Agema's post above.

[Zeldor]

otthegreat:

Maybe you didn't delete old .2h file after rollback? It could cause that mess...

I didn't have that mercenaries before, you couldn't buy them from me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They were yours or Machakan and on last month of service so I paid for them and got them. You could get the new .2h file active, you would see them as mine [as I won the bid] and also in 1 month service left [as the turn was rolled back]. But I guess you have discount for them now, a bit unfair. But I cannot be 100% sure it took money from me on them.

[FrozenFalcon]

Agema will substitute MartialDoctor as Acroscephale from monday. Hopefully MartialDoctor may play his turns before that.

[MartialDoctor]

FrozenFalcon said:
Agema will substitute MartialDoctor as Acroscephale from monday. Hopefully MartialDoctor may play his turns before that.



Ok, will do. I will continue doing my turns up until that time.

[Niarg]

Could we increase the timer to 48 hours until monday as MartialDoctor is still having trouble getting turns in on time.

[Zeldor]

I would be really happy to stick with 24 hours, until some wars start. But if someone really really needs it...

[FrozenFalcon]

There appear to be some players that have few hours between them playing the turn and sending it so with 24 hours the hosting time can be problem with some. I put the timer for 48 hours, and putting it back to 30 hours on monday.

[DonCorazon]

Can we re-name this thread EPIKBATTEL - it always takes me a few seconds to track it down.

[FrozenFalcon]

Done. Hopefully all notice this. Also, you can favorite a thread, so you don't have to find it again each time.

[DonCorazon]

Thanks -

First contact on this giant map - some bony Ermorians have been seen across the Eriu border. Beware Shattered Empire lest we shatter you some more!

[Niarg]

I've had contact as well, those damn Abysians tried to assasinate me but I fought them off.

Btw renaming the thread really confused me at first, I'd got used to the last name!

[Bananadine]

Niarg said:
I've had contact as well, those damn Abysians tried to assasinate me but I fought them off.



Of course it would never occur to a lizard that this might be part of a greater plan.

[FrozenFalcon]

From now on, Acenoid will substitute HJFudge as R'lyeh. Also, Agema's email address has been changed for Arcoscephale. We will return to the 30 hour cycle after next turn.

[Acenoid]

R'lyeh greets all other nations and we hope for a good and fair game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Is there an IRC channel being used for this game?:)

[FrozenFalcon]

No IRC channel (but if you wish, you can found one), all talk has been in this thread to this point.

[Networkingguru]

DonCorazon said:
Thanks -

First contact on this giant map - some bony Ermorians have been seen across the Eriu border. Beware Shattered Empire lest we shatter you some more!



Hmm, actually, it seems that you attacked me, not the other way around. Let's see how many longdead horsemen I can amass in the next few turns, shall we?

[DonCorazon]

We freely admit to attacking Ermor (with no provocation on the part of your gentle death-worshipping cult) - did not mean to suggest otherwise.
In Eriu we view Ermorians like a bad case of jock itch – you just have to keep treating it (with Banishment) til it goes away.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zeldor]

We are back on 30 hour hosting now?

[FrozenFalcon]

Yes, after this turn. The changing of the interwall won't change the ongoing turn, but next turn will be 30-hour max.

[Zeldor]

FrozenFalcon: You can always postpone hosting by minus hours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Are there any wars yet?

[FrozenFalcon]

It appears that I cannot access Dominions from monday to friday next week, So I may need to get myself a temporary substitute. Of course, if it is ok to everyone, I could use my power as the game host and postpone hosting at monday till friday. I have allowed other players to postpone the game for personal reasons, so if no one absolutely disagrees, I'll dealy the hosting. Temporary substitute would also be possible, but I'd prefer not take that option.

[Zeldor]

FrozenFalcon:

I don't remember delaying for 5 days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Try to find a temporary sub, I really want more turns here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[DonCorazon]

FrozenFalcon said:
It appears that I cannot access Dominions from monday to friday next week, So I may need to get myself a temporary substitute. Of course, if it is ok to everyone, I could use my power as the game host and postpone hosting at monday till friday. I have allowed other players to postpone the game for personal reasons, so if no one absolutely disagrees, I'll dealy the hosting. Temporary substitute would also be possible, but I'd prefer not take that option.



Fine with me

[Agema]

Also fine with me.

[Gregstrom]

Fine by me too.

[FrozenFalcon]

Of course, no-one has to this point asked me to delay the game for such a long time, but there are many reasons for which I don't prefer temporary substitute. I'll ask a friend of mine, but if he disagrees, I'd really prefer not to take a substitute. The game has been delayed many times, but if most of the players are ok with this, I'd rather postpone the hosting.

[Zeldor]

I am of course OK, I would just prefer to have that 4 turns played. I will need few days of delay too at the end of February too probably, but I will probably find a sub.

[Networkingguru]

I'm fine with it.

[otthegreat]

I'd rather not delay but I'll live with it.

[Acenoid]

whatever is okay for you is okay for me as well?

[DonCorazon]

Check out Ermor's army size on the stats chart...ughh.

[Gregstrom]

That's a lot of corpses.

[Zeldor]

DonCorazon:

You are his neighbour, do something about it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DonCorazon]

Trying. Eriu is setting up bible study camps across the nation to try and get more Tuatha holy rollers.

[Zeldor]

Eriu is strong with glamour units for surprise attacks inside enemy territory.

[DonCorazon]

Shhh!!!

[Zeldor]

Well done!

[Networkingguru]

DonCorazon said:
Check out Ermor's army size on the stats chart...ughh.



Funny you should mention that. My army was actually quite reasonable until you senselessly attacked me and made me start up the war machine. I really, really don't understand why a player would attack another player when they have PLENTY of indy space to expand into. It makes zero sense, unless you are in a blitz game and have a nation that is good at the early rush. In this case, I can't figure it out at all...

[DonCorazon]

NGG,

I normally would agree with you if you were any nation other than Ermor but my understanding (correct me if I am wrong)is that Ermor grows exponentially stronger with its free summons as time goes on. I think the rule book even has a special section on dealing with Ermor.

I wish I had not started next to you.

[Gregstrom]

That's LA Ermor, mostly. MA isn't quite so bad, although the volumes of Longdead Horsemen they throw out can be pretty darned unpleasant.

And there's a lot to be said for attacking the big guy near you before he is large enough to step on you without noticing.

[FrozenFalcon]

Ok, I'm now back and as soon as I can post a turn I will resume the game to the 30 hour schedule. Sorry for all the inconvenience my break has caused to you.

[otthegreat]

Gregstrom said:

And there's a lot to be said for attacking the big guy near you before he is large enough to step on you without noticing.



However it seems that more often than not you end up dragging both of you down and someone else can come in and step on you.

[DonCorazon]

I agree that me battling Ermor is dragging us both down while others profit (Machaka). That said, just seeing how fast Ermor can generate troops in a few turns leads me to conclude that waiting to fight would also be a losing strategy.

[Zeldor]

Machaka is in other part of the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif That is team game so it is a bit different. I suppose DonCorazon neighbours only Ermor so he does not have much of a choice to expand. The only team that can use it and attack him is Pythium + Abysia, which is quite strong too.

[otthegreat]

I didn't mean in this case specifically. I was just observing that In any war especially early in the game it seems that both nations suffer in the long run.

But it does make sense to attack Ermor early. As your teammate I support your strategy and of course will help as much as I can.

[Networkingguru]

DonCorazon said:
NGG,

I normally would agree with you if you were any nation other than Ermor but my understanding (correct me if I am wrong)is that Ermor grows exponentially stronger with its free summons as time goes on. I think the rule book even has a special section on dealing with Ermor.

I wish I had not started next to you.




That's LA Ermor. MA gets no free spawns. All MA can do is reanimate longdead, which is where you are seeing my military build up. As others have said, you are dragging us both down for no real good reason.

There are only a handful of uber-nations, an MA Ermor isn't one of them. That being said, if you want a fight, I won't be backing down.

[DonCorazon]

We all fight sooner or later and I have no regrets about attacking you sooner given your ability to reanimate hordes of longdead.

If you want diplomacy then offer something up. I am all ears.

[Zeldor]

Networkingguru:

But if he wins he can only benefit from the war. More gold, more gem income, more mages to recruit, safe border... So use your diplomacy, there are other players on the map that may want to help you. Or him.

[Networkingguru]

Zeldor said:
Networkingguru:

But if he wins he can only benefit from the war. More gold, more gem income, more mages to recruit, safe border... So use your diplomacy, there are other players on the map that may want to help you. Or him.



Actually, no. Look at the score chart, I have very few territories, mostly due to the war. He is even worse off, I believe. He would have benefited more by attacking the indy provinces. Anyhow, I am reasonably sure I can win the war, that isn't the issue. The issue is that while I am gaining 4-5 provinces from this senseless conflict, I am potentially losing many more indy provinces because the units that would be expanding into that area are busy fighting elsewhere. Also, research will suffer due to my GT's having to reanimate constantly instead of researching. Any way you slice it, this is a no win situation on a map this large. Whoever wins will just be next in line to be steamrolled by someone who didn't waste their initial turns bickering over 5 provinces.

/rant

[Gregstrom]

Darn. I didn't realise that Llamaserver wouldn't take two 2h fies in one email.

[Bananadine]

Why would you send two 2h files? Are they for two different games?

[Gregstrom]

Yup - this one and KingOfTheIsle. My guess is it took the one for KotI because Bandar Log comes alphabetically before Pythium.

I can only blame myself - I left it late sending the turns in, so I hurried and sent both files in one mail, then didn't wait up to check for the response from Llamaserver.

It's cost me enough in lost opportunities to make sure I don't do it again, though.

[Zeldor]

I have just realized that Arcoscephale has already 4 stales. That isn't right.

[Agema]

I think two predate me taking over.

I've definitely staled at least twice because the internet company have messed up installing my home line THREE(!) times, so I'm having trouble at the weekends as I can't get net access. I expect it should be sorted for next weekend.

[Niarg]

Could I request the turn time is extended to 48 hours.

[FrozenFalcon]

Is it absolutely necessary? There are many players that want to play as many turns as possible. I'm afraid I can't make this decision myself; everyone with an opinion in this matter should state it and Niarg, can you specify how important it would be to extend the turn time?

[Gregstrom]

I'm not too fussed either way, although I'd like to request that after the ~10 am Saturday turn generation the next hosting be delayed until Monday am (a one-off 48 hour turn would do it), as I'm going to be away from home for a couple of days and don't think I'll have Internet access.

[Zeldor]

FrozenFalcon:

I guess there are some small wars started, but I am also against increasing host time and if it is necessary granting single postpones.

[Niarg]

It wouldn't be necessary, just convenient and I am happy to wait until there are a couple more requests. Consider this an invitation to comment on the turn time rather than just wait until everyone is rushing their turns.

[Acenoid]

iam also for schedule only between monday - friday. If all ppl should send their turn we can have extra turns during weekends optionally due to quickhost.