Eye Shield

[jimkehn]

Too powerful for the cost. I think it should be more like 25 gems or maybe even 40.

[Twan]

I think there is probably a bug with it as it seems all attackers get the eyeloss effect (not only attackers who were parried by the shield, nor attackers who fail an mr check) when description just says "may lose an eye". As well the #eyeloss mod command seem to be 100% efficient when description says "might lose an eye" (WAD or a bug ?).

If the shield is WAD I agree it is too cheap for its power. But more probably it's not WAD and will be fixed.

edit : not sure about no MR check, but sure about affect attackers even if parry is impossible, already seen a fight ending in round 50 due to a paralyzed SC with eyeshield surrounded by blind troops.

[cleveland]

Twan said:not sure about no MR check



Just tested. High MR unit (24) did NOT lose an eye after attacking unit with eyeshield.

I agree that it's underpriced, though.

[DrPraetorious]

That depends on how effective you think thugs should be.

I agree that it's better, for most applications, than most of the other introductory shields, which are inferior to a second weapon.

However, I think thugs are generally inferior to invoker mages, so that isn't saying much. The Weightless shields, in particular, have a strong role as investment-protection for gem-carrying spellcasters, and they're a lot better for-that-purpose than the eye shield.

But that's not enough, in and of itself, to say that it is unbalancing - it's also in a different path from most of the other intro shields, and unlike air magic, nature magic doesn't make winged shoes.

[jimkehn]

Oh...respectfully, DrPraetorious......I disagree. I don't see an even close comparison to the weightless shields. Yes, I agree the weightless shields have their specific place, as you have articulated. But, the eye shield seems to emasculate ALL attackers (military, anyway). I am not postulating that the eye shield should be eliminated. It is a powerful item, and is great for SC's and Thugs. I just think at 10 gems, it is very, very powerful in negating any attacks against it.

[Jazzepi]

I think 10 nature gems is a fine price for something like eye shield. Charcoal shield, which is much more powerful since it simply kills your attackers instead of emasculating them, costs 15 gems in two different fields.

I'd rather kill my enemy any day than just blind them. I managed to kill an unrisen oracle in Armadillo with a bunch of blind knights because he got swarmed, had said shield, and couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Even though all the knights around him couldn't do any damage, eventually he routed do the turn limit, and then was killed when we got to the hard limit. If he had a charcoal shield instead he would have killed all my knights instead.

Jazzepi

[K]

I don't really see how the eye shield is actually that good. You still get hit by attackers, and they have to attack you twice before they get blinded(at least). With the number of hits you can end up taking and the rate that a good SC or thug should be killing guys, the blinded guys end up being killed in battle.

Like items that Curse or Horror Mark, its just something that cheeses off SC and Thug makers. Against real troops, its just an annoyance.

[Shovah32]

Does the eye shield allow a save? And would 2 instantly blind a 2-eyed creature?
If so, I've found my new SC crippler.

[cleveland]

A nasty early game tactic against high-priced, high-quality melee troops (e.g. Knights of Man):

Put it on a Golem (or any high-protection/hitpoint unit), script attack 5x, retreat. Opponent now has a useless army of high-upkeep troops.

[Shovah32]

Early game golems sound fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[cleveland]

Had them on the front lines on turn 30 with MA Ulm.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Jazzepi said:
I managed to kill an unrisen oracle in Armadillo with a bunch of blind knights because he got swarmed, had said shield, and couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Even though all the knights around him couldn't do any damage, eventually he routed do the turn limit, and then was killed when we got to the hard limit. If he had a charcoal shield instead he would have killed all my knights instead.
Jazzepi



I was the Agartha player in that game. I had done my best to make the risen oracle into an SC with only level 2 construction. That meant boots of the behemoth, plate armor and 2 shields. I was lucky enough to be able to trade to get the eye shield. But a charcoal shield would certainly have been preferable in that case. Except if I could have made a charcoal shield, I would have also been able to make a fire brand. I don't know if it would have been necessary to have both a fire brand and a charcoal shield. blinding the enemies with the eye shield would have made it easier to kill them with a sword.

[NTJedi]

The eye shield has uses against thugs or buffed calvary types, yet usually I use a lucky shield or charcoal shield for general enemy armies.

[Jazzepi]

Sir_Dr_D said:

Jazzepi said:
I managed to kill an unrisen oracle in Armadillo with a bunch of blind knights because he got swarmed, had said shield, and couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Even though all the knights around him couldn't do any damage, eventually he routed do the turn limit, and then was killed when we got to the hard limit. If he had a charcoal shield instead he would have killed all my knights instead.
Jazzepi



I was the Agartha player in that game. I had done my best to make the risen oracle into an SC with only level 2 construction. That meant boots of the behemoth, plate armor and 2 shields. I was lucky enough to be able to trade to get the eye shield. But a charcoal shield would certainly have been preferable in that case. Except if I could have made a charcoal shield, I would have also been able to make a fire brand. I don't know if it would have been necessary to have both a fire brand and a charcoal shield. blinding the enemies with the eye shield would have made it easier to kill them with a sword.



That was a very... strange fight. A bunch of blind knights stumbling around trying to kill a giant... pillow sack of an undead king. Felt like a Montey Python skit.

Jazzepi

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I almost spat out my soda there with that description, Jazzepi. I blame you if I need replace a keyboard.

[Twan]

Probably eye shield opponents have just been unlucky in my games, but I find strange how often mr 10-11 units or even thugs with 15 or 16 mr lost 2 eyes fast (but cleveland is right, there is no bug making eyeloss automatic, very high mr units resist).

Anyway, eye shield being a good counter against elite units I finally agree the cost may be right (counters are so rare to allow to resist against things like F9W9 sacreds, that this one desserve to stay available).

[jimkehn]

I think it should be available..just at a higher price.

[Twan]

Wanted to say "as available", as an easy to forge anti sacred rush counter most nations may use (increasing gem cost would also increase path requirement, so make it an item for high nature nations/pretenders only).

[sector24]

What I first registered on the forum, a thread exactly the same as this one was going around. It's definitely a good shield, although probably not overpowered. The more a player relies on a few powerful units, the more Eye Shields hurt. But it's really more of an annoyance than the kind of thing that can turn the tide of war.

Mildly related question: If a unit loses and eye and you give them an artificial forged eye, do they put it in the empty socket or do they poke their other eye out?

[sum1lost]

They poke their eye out. Magic eyes have the 'eyeloss' effect.

[BigDisAwesome]

I thought I remembered reading on here a long time ago that it was random which eye they replaced.

So they could just replace the bad eye with it, or you might get screwed when they replace the good eye.

[sum1lost]

Ah. I probably should have done that test with more than 3 units, then.

[Serenity]

Heh. The fight earlier reminds me of my Monolith with astral shield on. Surrounded by petrified units until they ran away or round limit got to em.

[Falkor]

I found the eye schield not that effective against strong opponents. In my last game (sp) I equiped the bean sidhe assasins with them. Mundane commanders got blinded if stayed long enough, but I had several battles against Nifel Jarls, every battle pretty long (for an assasination attempt) but none lost even one eye.
I thought the mistform and mirror image were preventing hitting the schield for the effect to take place but as I said common indy commanders got blinded almost every time when they last longer than one combat round.

[Kuritza]

It has nothing to do with thug's MR, it just works every time you block an attack. So having a very high attack and a flail (+6 vs shield) should work more often than not.
Put it on something with defense 30 or more and watch all attackers get blinded in two hits.
In the example with bean sidge vs Nifel Jarl, Jarls were hitting your mirror images. Images dont block, hence no eye loss.
Its an extremly powerful item for lvl2 construction and 10 gems, when used properly it does turn battles. In my opinion it should be lvl4 or even lvl6 (its more useful than many lvl6 items) and probably cost more.

[jimkehn]

I agree with Kuritza. It is a good item to keep in the game. It just should either cost more, or have a higher level of research. Preferably both.

[Huzurdaddi]

I love my eye shields! They are great items. However I at 10 gems a pop I find them moderatly hard to forge. Rings of regen are always higher on the list, as are all of the reinvig items.

It is a very powerful item, but if its cost were increased and it remained nature gems I fear it would not be used often.

Perhaps adding another path?

[Kristoffer O]

I personally find vine shield better in most cases.

[K]

Kristoffer O said:
I personally find vine shield better in most cases.



I agree. Against normal Str units the Vine Shield is quite good (beware giants).