Demon Lords

[BigDisAwesome]

So how many Demon Lords are there?
Extra points if you can list their names.

Thanks in advance.

[cupido2]

Here an unqualified answer:
I think 3... Beliar, ooohm, Mr Soulbuyer and Mr Headlessdiseasespreader

Oh no, 4: I forgot Edi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[HotNifeThruButr]

Buer, Pazuzu, Belial... some other guy? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Meglobob]

cupido2 said:Oh no, 4: I forgot Edi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gifSurely the most fearsome of them all!

Pazuzu, Lord of the Plague Wind.
Belphegor, Lord of Hell.
Belial, Lord of Corruption.
Buer, Goat Sun.

[Wick]

Four. Belial, Belphagor, idunno the Goat Sun, and someone else.

[Burnsaber]

I really like the graphic look of the Demon Lords. Most games would have gone for the cliche "big, muscular red-skinned demon*" thing, but those guys actually look like they're ruling a dimension of eternal pain and suffering that is way beyond any human understanding. Goat Sun? Absolutely freaking awesome!

*Yeah, I know there are the Arch Devils, but they are "forgiven" because they can thinked of counter-parts to the Ice Devils.

[Edi]

Meglobob said:

cupido2 said:Oh no, 4: I forgot Edi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gifSurely the most fearsome of them all!


*appears in a puff of sulphurous smoke*

Damn right! Now, puny mortals, where are my gifts and sacrifices? If my due is not forthcoming, I shall devour you and use your bones for toothpicks!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[cupido2]

Oh Edi please accept my gifts
/threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon43.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Burger.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Woman3.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Woman1.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Woman2.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Woman4.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon48.gif

[Edi]

Hmm, excellent! You shall be spared. Keep up the good work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[VedalkenBear]

Burnsaber: The reason Buer looks the way it does is because, like so many other things in this game, it is based on real-life practice. I'm sure a casual inspection on the internet will give you all you ever wanted to know (and more) about Buer.

[Morkilus]

If only we could mod in more uniques. At least we got heroes!

[noname]

Aren't the demon lords in this game based on "actual" drawings of them?

[johan osterman]

noname said:
Aren't the demon lords in this game based on "actual" drawings of them?


Pazuzu is headless because Kristoffer was dissatisfied with how the head turned out though, originally he was intended to have the proper Pazuzu birdman head.

[NTJedi]

johan osterman said:

Pazuzu is headless because Kristoffer was dissatisfied with how the head turned out though, originally he was intended to have the proper Pazuzu birdman head.



Here's the proper Pazuzu birdman head:
http://ugo.com/images/articles/000903400/903378_big.jpg

[Kristoffer O]

Great! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Edratman]

JO's admission should give everyone food for thought. Just how many widely admired and acclaimed objects ended up in their final form because the creators couldn't do what really intended or ran out of time/money/patience or whatever?

I've seen something like that in my trade, where a design flaw gets copied through 3 or 4 generations of a product. The flaw is best descibed as being "grandfathered" into legitimacy because it has been so widely used. Zero Nostradamus points are available for correctly predicting what happens when you attempt to correct the flaw.

[K]

Once I got used to it, I actually really liked that Pazuzu had no head. I made him my SC for the Deathmatch contest.

[BigDisAwesome]

So here's a question.
Do the Slaves of Belphegor cost upkeep?
I think he's my favorite so far.

[vfb]

Yeah, they're like 10 gold units for upkeep purposes.

I like Belial because of the seduction. I haven't tried him out since 3.8, so I hope he can still seduce male commanders. It's seduction by money and power, not by, you know, showing a little leg or something. Anyway, hope it still works in 3.10.

[BigDisAwesome]

So how exactly does that work? Is it just like an assassination attempt?

[vfb]

Yes, you sneak into the province and choose 'Seduce'. There's an attempt at seduction which can fail, I have no idea what the parameters are. MR? Morale? If the seduction fails, it's an assassination attempt instead.

[Jazzepi]

vfb said:
Yes, you sneak into the province and choose 'Seduce'. There's an attempt at seduction which can fail, I have no idea what the parameters are. MR? Morale? If the seduction fails, it's an assassination attempt instead.



My understanding that it was both MR and morale.

Unfortunately, assassins/seducers seem fairly useless in competitive MP games. I wish they had an ability to "stalk" a particular unit, raising their stats during the eventual fight for each turn stalked, and keeping them attached to that unit indefinitely, following them around. Would make them more useful, I think.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

I disagree, they are not useless.

They are *hard to use*, but that's not the same as useless.

Furthermore, they are, generally speaking, not as good as the mages you would otherwise recruit out of your national forts.

Personally, I think the game would benefit from parallel recruitment - you can recruit one mage out of your lab, one priest out of your temple, and one non-mage non-priest out of your fortress. That way, people would actually use their national commanders, assassins, spies, etc. because they wouldn't be instead-of a mage.

[Endoperez]

I agree with Dr Praetorius there. I've thought about national spells that take a gem (or a couple) of the type the nation has income for, and summons a group of national commanders. I'm not sure if it should be one summon for e.g. 2 scouts, 3 melee commanders and a weak priest, or spesific spells for summoning e.g. 6 scouts or 5 assassins or 4 spies, and another for 6 non-mage commanders (one or two of the highest tier (e.g. Black Lords) and others of the lower tier (e.g. Commanders of Ulm).

This only works if #nextspell enables linking several spells together (casting the spell summons a Black Lord and activates a spell that: 1) summons another Black Lord and 2) activates a spell that... ... 1) summons the last commander and doesn't activate anything. Still, it seems like it could work. I'm not sure how much the spell should cost. 3 gems sounds about right. Coming up with good names will be another difficult one.

[Jazzepi]

DrPraetorious said:
I disagree, they are not useless.

They are *hard to use*, but that's not the same as useless.

Furthermore, they are, generally speaking, not as good as the mages you would otherwise recruit out of your national forts.

Personally, I think the game would benefit from parallel recruitment - you can recruit one mage out of your lab, one priest out of your temple, and one non-mage non-priest out of your fortress. That way, people would actually use their national commanders, assassins, spies, etc. because they wouldn't be instead-of a mage.



I would definitely quantify them as useless, or 98% of the time useless. You have to kite them out with some kind of gear, even if its minimal, and those gem resources end up being better spent on actual thugs and SCs, which have a greater impact on the game anyways.

Besides that, assassinating mages can be an exercise in getting owned, especially once the higher level spells are researched.

Jazzepi

[vfb]

I used Belial in an MP game, and by the time I had him, I was pulling in at least 200 slaves a month as EA Mictlan. If he had died, it would have been a cheap resummon.

I snagged at least one Anointed from Abysia, and a Sauromancer from CTis in that game, along with other odds and ends.

He's got more than enough firepower using just Leech or Life for a Life to take on nearly anyone he has to fight when seduction fails, without any kit at all. I'm not sure exactly where stealth units are hiding their 30 blood slaves though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sensori]

vfb said:I'm not sure exactly where stealth units are hiding their 30 blood slaves though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



In their sizeable pants pocket of course! Especially in the case of size 6 monsters like Belial there!

[Wick]

The Lord of Night just tows them along behind in his silent flight.

[Endoperez]

One little-known thing about Belial: his weapon (Flail of Misfortune) is the ONLY weapon in the game that can cause the special effect Curse Luck, outside of Doom Horrors. Unfortunately, it SUCKS. IMO, Belial should get a bonus attack "Touch of Misfortune", not the sucky weapon.

[BigDisAwesome]

So I saw in the SC Arena that it was storming in Pazuzu's fights even though no one had a staff of storms.

Does Pazuzu just straight up make it storm?

[Kristoffer O]

Probably, but I'm not sure. He does something at start of battle, and storm seems fitting.

[Sombre]

You sure he doesn't breakdance?

I could have sworn that's what he does at the start of battle.