Need advice - MA Nation, Strategy and Pretender

[FedSlayer]

What pretender/strategy/scales in the MA for T'ien Ch'i and Abysia?

Lets start by saying I'm very new to Dom, but not to gaming.

Three of us are playing a MA game and I am trying to decide between T'ien Ch'i (leaning that way) and Abysia. Our last game was LA and I played Ermor (never again with that level of micro-managing, it took hours to do a turn). So, if a blood economy requires constant attention I'm not up for it right after playing LA Ermor.

My opponents are taking Bandar Log and Agartha.

I've never run a blood economy, even in SP, but have seen Baalz guide.

Looking at the T'ien Ch'i pretenders I see that the Jade Emporer is a fortune teller and can prevent 30% of all bad events. So how does this work? Only when he is awake? Only in the province he is in? Anywhere in his own domain? In all lands his nation controls regardless of whose domain?

Then there is the Lord of Plenty that brings good fortune. How does this work - same questions as above.

Do either/both of these pretender allow you to take misfortune scales and if so 1,2 or 3 of them?


How about fortune telling mages/priests, do they work only in the province they are in? Can't find this in the manual. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Zeldor]

Best way to get advices like that is irc channel http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I know that fortune tellers you can recruit only work in that province. Pretenders probably work the same, but some more experienced players must say about that.

About TC - get on IRC and I can give some advices what not to do. That is my favourite nation and I play them in my first MP newbie game. And I really know what not to do now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And really a lot depends on map size, game settings and so on. I don't think that TC is the best choice for blitz. And you are rather going to play some sort of small game with 3 players only.

[KissBlade]

Make lots of xbows (low armor kind) with screens of shielded spearmen, get a second fort to spam tons of consorts to make someone's cap miserable. Those wenches are seriously impossible to find. Either go for a dragon thug or an imprisoned oracle with good scales. Tien Chi is odd in that they have great mages but very little in the way of battle magic for MA.

[FedSlayer]

Zeldor said:About TC - get on IRC and I can give some advices what not to do. That is my favourite nation and I play them in my first MP newbie game. And I really know what not to do now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



Er, okay, haven't done IRC in a while. Need explaination on how to get on and then find you.

[archaeolept]

check the IRC sticky thread just a bit above this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironhawk]

FedSlayer, if you want to get away from Micromanagment for a while the play Tien Chi. Blood economies take some work to keep up and running, it can be a nuisance at times.

As for the fortune telling unit ability, it applies only to the province that the unit is physically located in.

[Zeldor]

BTW if you want to test yourself in MP and MA I am hosting a newbie game that needs a sub for Man. Not so best position now, but surely does not need a lot of micromanagement and you can learn a lot.

[FedSlayer]

Okay I downloaded mIRC and have no clue what to do next.

That IRC thread didn't help a whole lot.

Need VERY specific step by step idiot proof instructions. Think of me as G W Bush trying to do IRC.

[Shovah32]

Load it up, and type /join #dominions
That should work.

[FedSlayer]

Load it up? you mean start mIRC, okay did that. Can't connect to a server.

Typing /join #dominions after not connecting says I need to connect, but it won't connect.

Keeps repearting over and over "Unable to connect to server (Connection refused)

Yeh, on retry #29 it connected to something.

[Shovah32]

Could your firewall be stopping it or something?

[Zeldor]

Add new server:

Server = irc.gamesurge.net

port = 6667

Put any description you want. Connect to that server.

Then add channel #dominions also name it how you want. Then join that channel.

[FedSlayer]

50 tries and still refusing connection to irc.gamesurge.net

[FedSlayer]

Keep getting the saem lines scrolling

* Connect retry #nn irc.gamesurge.net (6667) (dns pool)
-
* Unable to connect to server (Connection refused)
-


Under the mIRC "Files" dropdown "select server" "Identd" menu "Enable Identd server" is checked but it says system: UNIX - - I am using Vista???

Could this be a problem?

And no, I'm not upgrading to XP, have enough problems doing simple things like not connecting to IRC.

[FedSlayer]

Anyway . . .

still looking for advice on MA T'ien Ch'i.

[Zeldor]

What map will it be and what settings? And 4 players only?

[jimkehn]

FedSlayer:

I followed these instructions and it worked. I was able to chat, there. If I can do it......



If you don't want to download any clients, config them etc. you can also use the java based webchat of gamesurge.

http://gamesurge.net/chat/

First you simply load the page. [It will try to install the java application, so you must let the site to install it] You will find yourself in the "welcome" channel.
You can change your name in the "change nick to" window. [bottom right corner in the java window]
After this you simply type in /join #dominions -> this will connect you to the dominions IRC channel.
This is a very simple and easy way to use IRC.

[Shovah32]

MA Tien Chi advice? Use tower shields to protect squishy troops from arrows. Use your cavalry as best you can - they are nice troops. Use communions, I like using geomancers - a few slaves and suddenly your geomancers are casting gifts from heaven, bladewind, destruction, weapons of sharpness ect.

[FedSlayer]

Here's a picture of mIRC
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/Fed_Slayer/mIRCproblem.jpg

[FedSlayer]

jimkehn said:
FedSlayer:

I followed these instructions and it worked. I was able to chat, there. If I can do it......

If you don't want to download any clients, config them etc. you can also use the java based webchat of gamesurge.

http://gamesurge.net/chat/

First you simply load the page. [It will try to install the java application, so you must let the site to install it] You will find yourself in the "welcome" channel.
You can change your name in the "change nick to" window. [bottom right corner in the java window]
After this you simply type in /join #dominions -> this will connect you to the dominions IRC channel.
This is a very simple and easy way to use IRC.



Sorry Jim, I tried that java based webchat before downloading mIRC and can't get it to run either. Lots of messages from (I think) Vista and clicked yes, allow, etc multiple times to multiple questions but it won't work. Must be doing something wrong, but what? It's not like I haven't ever been on IRC or teamspeak or other voice software, just never on Vista.

There is something that is not allowed to run by the Vista security system - where tehre shold probably be achat box there is an empty space with a little X in the upper right corner.
I was getting a pop-up message at this point in the lower right, but now that doesn't happen anymore and I have no idea what to do. It lead to yet another window where it showed waht applets(?) were allowed and not allowed, but again I have no idea how to get back to that or what to do when i get there. Bill Gates must be laughing all the way to the bank on Vista, bless his black little soul.

[Zeldor]

I have Vista and had absolutely no problems so it is not that.

[FedSlayer]

Well obviously something is not working, some setting, security level, or whatnot.

At this point I'd just like some reasonable pointers on T'ien Ch'i MA - tiles, pretender, expansion and research - something more than put the guys with the shields in front of the guys without shields.

[FedSlayer]

Here's what was coming up - now what is set wrong or missing to run the java chat thingy from gamesurge

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/Fed_Slayer/addons.jpg

[Zeldor]

You will be safe with imprisoned Oracle with 6-9 dominion strength, order 3, luck 2-3, magic 1 or 3, growth 1-2. Use that money to make crazy amount of heavily armoured troops and build forts to recruit a lot of mages that can kill a lot and research like crazy.

[jimkehn]

FedSlayer wrote:

"something more than put the guys with the shields in front of the guys without shields. "



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Shovah32]

FedSlayer said:
something more than put the guys with the shields in front of the guys without shields.



Put the guys with the smaller shields behind the guys with bigger shields?

Sorry, I had to.

[FedSlayer]

According to IE help there should be a Java section under settings in the Tools > Internet Options > Advanced menu, but I got no Java there. I tried microsoft's Virtual Machine but there are people saying it doesn't work with Vista. It didn't help me - unless I need to reboot?

Any ideas on how to get some Java?

[Hadrian_II]

java.sun.com

dl th JRE and java programs should work

[FedSlayer]

Thanks, now we have some Java

[FedSlayer]

Okay, more problems, as if you didn't already expect that to happen. Java now works - 1 step forward anyway.

But, the darn thing refuses to let me in!!!

After registering with Gamesurge and getting their e-mail containing my password and instructions I went back to their Java Chat and now I get:

[20:21] Connecting...
[20:21] Unable to connect : java.net.ConnectException : Connection refused: connect

It immediately comes up with the above. When I cut and paste the command/used id/password from the e-mail to the box where you can type in commands or your chat it comes back with "Not connected"

Any ideas?

[FedSlayer]

Zeldor said:
You will be safe with imprisoned Oracle with 6-9 dominion strength, order 3, luck 2-3, magic 1 or 3, growth 1-2. Use that money to make crazy amount of heavily armoured troops and build forts to recruit a lot of mages that can kill a lot and research like crazy.



Never had an imprisoned pretender, and since this game might last 40-60 turns I don't think imprisonment would work all that well. I don't like immobile pretenders, and the oracle is one of those.

The manual suggests a sleeping Jade Emperor with A4 S4 W3. With that I can get Order 2, Productivity 2, Magic 1 and Dom 7. Maybe Order 3 and Prod 1 is a better way to go, or some negative tile to get another magic level is worth it. S4 isn't very high in case of a magic duel, and W4 gives +2 Defense to blessed troops.

With the same dominion tiles a sleeping Lord of Plenty could have S6 E3. A Celestial General could have A5 E4. A Phoenix could get A5 F4 and a Mother of Rivers could be W6 and 2 of another magic.

A slept Oracle with S9 can have Order 3, Prod 3, Magic 1, Dom 7. It can teleport to get around if needed, but won't ever be a battle mage.

[jimkehn]

I would think an S9 Oracle would be pretty powerful even if immobile!!! And nice Order and Prod scales.

But then.....don't ask me. I always lose.

[KissBlade]

You can safely ignore a bulk of the manual suggestions. Some are more for fun than competitive while other strategies are rather outdated. Tien Chi's suggestion is solid in only offering the consort flooding strat since that was THE TC Strategy at the time. Make sure you have order 3 though and Magic 1 (I take Magic 3 because I like magic). High astral is nice because rings of wizardry are pretty sweet but a simple thug pretender and good scales can make a quick offense and let you toss up forts at key chokes a lot faster. TC's battlemagic isn't too great to be honest, but construction for boosters followed by conjuration for summons are a safe bet. The problem with strategies is Dom III strategies largely revolves around the same concepts, most of the hidden elements are more based off scenarios that you encounter. If you want more help, you'd need to offer us what your opponents are like, what settings, etc.

[vfb]

catgod savedgames/newlords/mid_bandarlog_0.2h

Nix, the God above All, King of the Dawn, God of Flames, Feeder on Impurity, Councilor of Gods
Bandar Log, Middle Era
Great Sage (Body 226, 10 hits) <- catgod is making a joke, it's really a dragon
Magic: Fire 9
Dominion 10
Scales: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/egg.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/egg.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/egg.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon07.gif
Awake

Erratic Expansionist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

90 provinces, wraparound East-West, 3 AIs, plus an Agarthan human. Or is that a human Argatha? Default settings.

[Sombre]

Order 3, Prod 3, Heat 3, Death 2, Turmoil 2, Magic 1?

[vfb]

Almost. For me, beer == Sloth. I only wish it could provide production!

[Sombre]

Penguins provide you order though?

[Burnsaber]

Sombre said:
Penguins provide you order though?



D'oh! Penguins = Linux. Linux = Order. Thus, Penguins = Order.

[FedSlayer]

vfb and Jim Kehn are my opponents.

vfb already gave away his poistion, Jim is playing the pale ones.

[vfb]

FedSlayer said:
vfb and Jim Kehn are my opponents.



I don't think that's exactly what KissBlade meant by "... you'd need to offer us what your opponents are like ..." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Burnsaber, your logic is impeccable. I however just picked the Instant Graemlin that I thought most closely resembled the order "bird".

[Edratman]

vfb said:
Almost. For me, beer == Sloth. I only wish it could provide production!



I wish it could provide health, wealth and happiness. I would settle for one of those TC minus 10 year spells. If beer would remove 10 years per night of consumption (I'm thinking it would be like gems, it takes several to cast the spell) I would currently be -35,678 years old, give or take a week. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zeldor]

FedSlayer:

If you take oracle it is because he has 0 points to buy and starts with 4 dominion. And you invest in scales. And TC can make a good use of scales. Other idea is to take worse scales and good pretender to fight and conquer provinces, I do not remember if TC can take Prince of Death.

[Sombre]

Almost everyone (if not everyone) can take PoD because he's a default pretender, much like the cyclops.

He's also the best pretender in the game, arguably. Something like smoking mirror might give him a run for his money though, I forget.

[Zeldor]

Sombre:

No, he is not default. At least some nations cannot take him. For example LA Marignon has Moloch, not PoD.

[Shovah32]

I wish it could provide health, wealth and happiness. I would settle for one of those TC minus 10 year spells. If beer would remove 10 years per night of consumption (I'm thinking it would be like gems, it takes several to cast the spell) I would currently be -35,678 years old, give or take a week. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



Impossible. My testing of this - both in and out of game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif - has proven that one cannot go below age 0.

[KissBlade]

Edratman said:

vfb said:
Almost. For me, beer == Sloth. I only wish it could provide production!



I wish it could provide health, wealth and happiness. I would settle for one of those TC minus 10 year spells. If beer would remove 10 years per night of consumption (I'm thinking it would be like gems, it takes several to cast the spell) I would currently be -35,678 years old, give or take a week. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



If internal alchemy was really beer, it'll explain why it AGES 10 extra years per cast.

[FedSlayer]

PoD is not available to MA TC and neither is Moloch.

[FedSlayer]

Sombre said:
Order 3, Prod 3, Heat 3, Death 2, Turmoil 2, Magic 1?



vfb corrected that Prod to Sloth, but you can't have Order 3 AND Trumoil 2, so I'm guessing the 2 grenades are misfortune making that Order 3, Sloth 3, Heat 3, Death 2, Misfortune 2 and Magic 1

Not good tiles, but he has to pay for Dominion and pretender's magic levels somewhere.

[vfb]

Oops yeah, grenades are Misfortune, not Turmoil. Probably what Sombre meant anyway.

Order 3 - Misfortune 2 is no problem really, especially when Death is only at 2.

Magic 1 is just as good as Magic 2, except actually it's better because it's cheaper http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

And bad scales with high dominion are actually good. If I push my dominion into an enemy province, they don't get the good scales (Order). So those provinces end up with Order-0, Sloth-3, Heat-3, Misfortune-2, Death-2, which can give some unpleasant random events.

[Zeldor]

I wouldn't be so sure about misfortune. You can survive and then live well or you can have bad luck and you can lose the game withing 10 turns because of misfortune. And taking misfortune and death is almost suicide. You get extremely nasty events together [though some need death3]. Heat 3 is also not so nice, it does not have only that visible effects http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And connected with Death 2 would make really tiny supply limit.

Anyway, what do you need that points for? That would make 740 points for pretender and dominion strength... he won't take ultra bless with TC.

[Rytek]

I like the very effiecent Lady of fortune:
Awake.
S6W4
Dom 6 with 2 plus scales:
/threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon07.gif

The cold 1 scale because your opponents like it hot.

[vfb]

Nice choice for the Growth and Cold icons! But I would have done a clover instead of a die for Luck. And I think the pink brain is more color-coordinated and thematic for Magic research. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[FedSlayer]

Okay, I give up on irc and java chat.

[FedSlayer]

vfb is taking an AWAKE Dragon with F9, so he has to tkae those scales.

My problem is now deciding what to do about an awake dragon and all those bandor log sacred troops with +4 attack and fire weapons.

[Zeldor]

You have many water mages. Hmm... does Rain also work against fire weapons like against Abysians?

[FedSlayer]

How about an awake W6 Mother of waters with Dom7 and:

/threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon41.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Running.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Waterdrop.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointUp.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon24.gif

Or in English Order 3, Productivity 1, Cold 2, Growth 1, Misfortune 1, Magic 1

[Rytek]

You really should have Astral or Air on your pretender. You will really regret it mid-game. And if you go with Astral you need a minimum of 6 because of mind duel.
Counter his tiger blesseds with your regular calvary and archers. lances should put a hurting on F9 tigers due to no defense, although your losses will be big in return, you should be able to out produce him.

[Rytek]

You should be able to grab any early turn mercs as well. On turn 1 you can crank your tax to 150%+ (no unrest at 150) and patrol with your starting army while making your starting consort your prophet. recruit a minister of magic and as many composite bows as you can. On turn 2 you have a choice of another minister and more bows and having around 800 gold left over for mercs, or you can take an imperial alchemist and take the 10 or so composite bows to reinforce your army on turn 3 and still have a good chunk of change leftover for mercs. Then use the imperial alchemist to sight search.

[Zeldor]

IT is good to learn to play without mercs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Though surely TC can use it in the beginning.

IF you are not going for SC I think it is really worth making pretender dormant. You could really use that points. Either earth or nature [or even both] at level 3-4 to cast some globals can really help [you could surely make use of GoH with TC and it is really hard to get it with national mages]. 1-2 levels in fire and death could also help for magic sites and items, but it really depends what you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Rytek]

Well, mercs are part of the game. And vfb will have to decide on buying 100g tigers or mercs. If he is going with the F9 bless then he cant afford the mercs. And if he buys the mercs to prevent TC from getting them then he is not using his early F9 strat..

[Sombre]

Fed: Why do you give up on irc? Can't get it working?

[FedSlayer]

vfb is very crafty. I don't know how he is going to handle those negative tiles and raise an army over the long run. Monkeys are cheap, yes? He should have gold but not so many resources with those tiles. And bad luck!

I'm playing a SP test game on the 6 lands map with an aggessive and better than standard AI for the Monkeys. 4 Standard random AI players and myeslf as TC. TC is doing real well, but half the AIs daclaired war on TC in the first 6-8 turns. Found a special (lab and good recruitable mages) in the first province I searched (turn 4).

vfb has, in the games we've played, gone for SCs/strong thugs of one sort or another. He likes construction.

[FedSlayer]

Yes can't get it to work, I've tried 2 downloadables MS Vistual Machine & mIRC, the Java at gamesurge and ircatwork.

Vista is such a wonderful product!!!

vfb tried to help but he is not a windows user. Uses some freeware OS from Sweden or maybe Rumania.

[Zeldor]

AI is extremely pathetic when playing monkey nations. You need to set it to impossible and even then it tends to make really stupid things. You can help a bit by making pretender and then switching it to AI. You should easily kill all mighty or even impossible AIs with TC.

[KissBlade]

The problem with Bandar vs TC is that Bandar mages >>>> TC ones since they can mind duel most of your reliable casters. as a result, your astral counters to SC might not be as strong as you'd like. Fortunately, your ground army stomps all over his since Tiger Riders are not that great if you can toss pockets of militias in their way (scatter them in different squads so morale doesn't hit them all) while pelting them with archers. The dragon you can tie up with a dragon of your own anyway. A Wyrm + army can kill it nicely as well. If you go for Wyrm or Dragon, take fire magic so you can fire proof yourself and rock his fire bless armies.

[FedSlayer]

Sombre if someone wants to help with IRC me I'll keep trying. Probably need to get on the phone to do it efficiently.

[PashaDawg]

I hear that Firefox has a good IRC program associated with it.

I use Colloquy for IRC, but it is for Mac only, I think.

Pasha

[Burnsaber]

Yeah, I'm using chatzilla (add-on irc client for mozilla), IrC wouldn't work for me, but it did.

It might be worth a try.

https://addons.mozilla.org/fi/firefox/addon/16

[FedSlayer]

Firefox and Mozilla, no thanks. I need to keep it as simple as possible. Had no problem using irc or voice programs like teamspeak and ventrillo on XP.