Highlander - LA limited diplomacy (started)

[Baalz]

There can be only one - no out of game diplomacy.

Now taking signups for a MP game hosted on the llamaserver (thanks llamabeast!). This is play by email, though I’ve got some scripts which automate this to a large degree (moving turn files around and handling the emailing) for windows if anyone wants to use them.

# of players – at least 10 to start, we’ll fill up all the slots if we have enough interest. The more the merrier.
Game settings:
Map - Alexandria
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3smm&Number=573514&page=0 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Era – late
Score graphs – off
Renaming – on
indies - 9
Everything else default


House rules –
The only diplomacy allowed is through the in-game interface. The idea is that this will drastically reduce player’s ability to coordinate and make diplomacy less effective. I’ve got nothing against diplomacy, just thought it’d be fun to try. I’ll make no effort to enforce this, but anyone who is contacted for diplomacy out of game should post such to this thread for public ridicule. One exception – you can post anything you want to this thread, so any “open” diplomacy (ie “Mictlan is gonna win if we don’t all gang up on him!”, “I want to trade for air gems”) is fair game. Heck, you could even coordinate attacks if you’re ballsy enough to do so publicly.

All’s fair in love and war- everything else allowable in-game is valid. All exploits, bugs, etc. are considered fair play. Everyone’s on the same page here, though I’m open to suggestions of game breaking exploitable bugs that should specifically be banned. I’m the final judge of this, and I’ll only ban something if you can convince me that not doing so will make the game significantly less fun. Nothing I know of comes to mind.

Hosting schedule-
24 hours until at least two players request extending it, then we'll add 24 hours to the timer every time two requests happen.

2 consecutive stales result in being set AI (my discretion). Hopefully anyone leaving will find a replacement or at least set themselves to AI.

I am open to suggestions for any house rules or settings changes, realizing that it’s my game and I’ll end up picking whatever sounds like the most fun to me...

Players:
Marignon - Baalz
C'tis - Tharsonius
Pangea - meister_miagi
Midgard - Jazzepi
Ulm - BigandScary
Ptala - rasko
Jomon - Sir_Dr_D
Caelum - thraveboy
Rlyeh - ano
arco - Hadrian_II
Tien Chi - Revolution
Abysia - Slobby
Ermor - Falkor
MAN - Kalash
Pythium - otthegreat
Mictlan - Sawyer
Utgard - karnoza
Agartha - Firewalker
Atlantis - OoohSnap

[llamabeast]

How big a map are you thinking? As in, how many provinces/player? I vote few (maybe 12-15).

I'd like to provisionally reserve Mictlan.
Edit: Decided I'd better not play after all

[Niarg]

I'm in, I'd like C'Tis please

I'd say play on a non random map, or at least with someone picking start positions to make it fairer.
I'd also like to see lower indy strength than 9.

[meister_miagi]

I'd like to play as Pangaea.

[Jazzepi]

I'll take midgard.

Jazzepi

[BigandScary]

I'll be Ulm.

[rasko]

I want Patala please.

[Baalz]

llamabeast said:
How big a map are you thinking? As in, how many provinces/player? I vote few (maybe 12-15).

I'd like to provisionally reserve Mictlan.



Yes, I'll be aiming for about 15 per player. If someone wants to volunteer to make a map that'd be great, otherwise I'll pick (and am open for suggestions) one of the included or community made maps of roughly that size once we see how many players we've got.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Put me in as Jomon.

[thraveboy]

I'd love to take Caelum.

[ano]

Let me take Rlyeh

[Hadrian_II]

i'd like to take arco. theese elephants have something about them.

[Revolution]

Tien Chi

[llamabeast]

On second thoughts I think taking on a third game at the moment would be rash. I'm meant to be starting a big push on my university work, so I'd better be sensible. So Mictlan is free after all - sorry about that.

[Slobby]

Abysia please

[Falkor]

I'd like to try Ermor.

[Kalash]

Hello !!
I'm a noob... I just got the game today.

I played Dominions 2 some times ago but only the demo.

I like you Idea of encouraging in game diplomacy... with maybe a little role play for the most motivated ? (me ? :d)

I'd like to join with nation Ermor ... which I think is ok for a beginner. Unless you have something more suited to propose.

24h is ok but not perfect for me. But I can manage it.

[Kalash]

Hello,

I'll try MAN, tower of chelms

[otthegreat]

Hi,
Is there still room? If there is, I'll take Pythium.

[Sawyer]

Ooh! Ooh!

Is Mictlan still open?

[Baalz]

Great! I see lots of new faces, welcome all. New guys take a look at the MP etiquette thread Sheep posted: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=474483&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post575472

Also, it's pretty bad form to abandon the game. Keep in mind that everybody else is waiting for you so if for whatever reason you don't want to play anymore at the very least set your nation to AI.

Outside of that, this is a very friendly community so speak up if you have any questions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Looks like we've got 3 slots open so I'll assume we fill those up for a full 19 before we start. Would anybody like to nominate a map with 250-300 provinces?

[Hadrian_II]

Baalz said:
Outside of that, this is a very friendly community so speak up if you have any questions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



How fast should i be expanding with indys 9, or whats about normal with this settings?

[Jazzepi]

Hadrian_II said:

Baalz said:
Outside of that, this is a very friendly community so speak up if you have any questions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



How fast should i be expanding with indys 9, or whats about normal with this settings?



I think normal is Indy 5. I think 9 might be a little extreme. I would personally like to see it a tad lower D:

Jazzepi

[ano]

Jazzepi said:

I think normal is Indy 5. I think 9 might be a little extreme. I would personally like to see it a tad lower D:

Jazzepi


I think "indy 9" setting just gives a huge advantage to hyperbless and awake SC's strategies (which they already have, btw) making all other approaches almost inconsistent. I may be mistaken, but it seems so. However, it may appear to be interesting.

[Jazzepi]

ano said:

Jazzepi said:

I think normal is Indy 5. I think 9 might be a little extreme. I would personally like to see it a tad lower D:

Jazzepi


I think "indy 9" setting just gives a huge advantage to hyperbless and awake SC's strategies (which they already have, btw) making all other approaches almost inconsistent. I may be mistaken, but it seems so. However, it may appear to be interesting.



I had exactly the same impression, actually.

I'm not sure how a nation with a midrange site searching pretender would be able to do anything.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

I'm not in love with indies at 9, I've actually not played a game like that before and threw it in as a lark. I'm not opposed to 5 as it seems to be the general preference.

[ano]

Maybe 7 will be a good trade-off?

[Niarg]

I think 5 is a nice trade off, you still get the tough indies but you also get places yuo can beat early on as well.

[ano]

I never considered indies 5 tough, really. However, I don't mean to insist or something. I just think that 7 is the optimal choice for a game with no score graphs.

[Jazzepi]

I would like to do 5, personally. I've always felt there was a good balance of tough and easy indies.

Jazzepi

[Hadrian_II]

I tested it with arco, and i think armoured elephants are working nicely with indy 9, but its a bit of a gamble in the beginning, so i would vote also for indy 5.

And it does not really benefit blessers as they need also more units to fight the increased attrition. But fear/awe pods would benefit hugely from the higher indy setting.

[Falkor]

The lower the indy strenght the faster we meet on the battlefield.
So, to stay in game longer I vote for 10 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

But seriously, the game master set it on 9 and setting to 5 is pretty much a change. Let's lower it a bit. 7 is my lucky number. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[karnoza]

Utgard - karnoza. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Firewalker]

I'll take Agartha if its still open.

[Revolution]

ano said:

I think "indy 9" setting just gives a huge advantage to hyperbless and awake SC's strategies (which they already have, btw) making all other approaches almost inconsistent. I may be mistaken, but it seems so.



I agree with this sentiment. That said, I have no problem playing with indy 9's, I just think that 5's are more balanced...they can still be pretty rough.

[OoohSnap]

I'd like to sign up for LA Atlantis if its not too late.

[Baalz]

Alright, looks like we've filled up so we can go ahead and get started. We'll go ahead and use indies at 5. Glory of the Gods (multiplayer) has 274 provinces so we'll use that one unless anyone has a better suggestion. I'll ask Llamabeast to set up the game and we'll give everyone three days to get the first turn in before we start the 24 hour hostings. Once the game is up I'll post instructions on how to submit your pretenders and turns.

[Sir_Dr_D]

You are changing the indies? You know how long I have practicing at indy 9 for this game?

I would prefer to stay at the settings advertised in the game, because I have never played an indy 9 game before and it sounds interesting.

[meister_miagi]

I'd prefer keeping Indies at 9 as well.

[ano]

And I still think that something like 7 will be a good trade-off between 9 and 5. But it is definitely up to host to decide.

[ano]

Btw, the map "Glory of gods" seems to be very well non-balanced. Upper and bottom-left regions are all wastelands and mountains. With such nations density to appear there for a land nation almost means to say "gg".

[otthegreat]

I agree with ano that 7 would be a good compromise - but yes it is up to the host.

As for Glory of the Gods, it does have issues but I don't know of any real alternatives.

[llamabeast]

You could try Pasha's new "Alexander" map. That's a reasonable size, and wraparound. I haven't looked at it closely though.

[Baalz]

Alright, they do have a point that I advertised 9 on the indies and that's what everybody signed up for so we'll stick with it, design your pretender accordingly. I'm up for giving Alexander a try unless anybody objects...

[Baalz]

Alright, the game is set up on the llamaserver and it looks like a couple people have already sent in their pretenders. For those of you who haven't done this before check out the FAQ llamabeast wrote:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531116

If possible try to have your pretenders in for Wednesday and we'll kick it off.

[Niarg]

I'm really sorry guys but I think I'm going to have to back out of this one, the other games I'm playing are starting to get more time intensive and I don't want to take on more than I can handle.

Hope you guys have fun.

[ano]

So do we wait for C'tis or start anyway?

[Baalz]

Tharsonius will be playing C'tis instead, so we've still got a full house. Here's the link for the map:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3smm&Number=573514&page=0 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[ano]

People who are absent yet:

Midgard - Jazzepi
Ulm - BigandScary
Ptala - rasko
Abysia - Slobby
Ermor - Falkor
Pythium - otthegreat

[otthegreat]

I'm having issues sending my pretender to the llamaserver. I got the error message twice and I just sent an email to llamabeast. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon.

[Baalz]

Did you email pretenders@llamaserver.net, with a subject of "highlander" and attach the .2h file out of your savedgames\newlords folder?

[Revolution]

And turn off any mods that affect pretender design when you made your god?

[llamabeast]

'Twas a LlamaServer bug coming from the inconsistent naming of LA Pythium files (pythium_0.2h rather than late_pythium_0.2h) - but anyway, fixed now.

[ano]

Seems like everyone has uploaded pretenders now

[Baalz]

Alright, I'll ask llamabeast to kick it off and we'll start the 24 hour host schedule.

[Sawyer]

Beware! While Me'ekKe'e has no idea what lies beyond his capital, he is sure their names are delicious, and while he is open to bartering and negotiating, he is still primarily concerned with the eating of names!
Blood slaves are fine too, but Me'eKe'e has been concerned recently with tingling in his extremities that he thinks might have something to do with his overconsumption of blood. Luckily, names are Atkins approved.

[ano]

How many names did he already eat?)

[OoohSnap]

Good luck and Have fun everyone! Here we go~ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Kalash]

Good luck everybody, meet you in the battlefield

[Baalz]

otthegreat is having some trouble getting stuff set up so I've granted a 24 hour delay. Quickhost is on, so hopefully he can get it sorted out and submit his turn earlier than that.

Also, if anyone is interested in using my Windows scripts to automate turn management here's a link to them along with instructions:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=dom3&Number=574038&page=2& view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all

[otthegreat]

It works. Turn 2 is in. Thanks Baalz and sorry about the delay.

[Jazzepi]

Oh geeze. I'm surrounded by like 5 50+ knight provinces D:

Jazzepi

[otthegreat]

Oh crap! never mind, same problem.

[OoohSnap]

Am being squeezed by Ulm, Machaka, C'tis and more over there Jotun coming into this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Falkor]

Yeah, this won't be an easy expansion game.

If someone is in need of money (and who isn't? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) could sell me some gems. I favour death gems, though and will pay very good for them. Contact me in-game (Ermor).

[OoohSnap]

OoohSnap said:
Am being squeezed by Ulm, Machaka, C'tis and more over there Jotun coming into this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.



Oh my, nevermind that post. It seems I have posted it in the wrong thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Sawyer]

Geeze, it's beginning to dawn on me how inconvenient strength 9 indies are for a blood nation...

Also, Me'eKe'e refuses to discuss the number of names he has eaten and locked himself in the library when I asked. I think he's stopped crying by now...

[Baalz]

Sawyer said:
Geeze, it's beginning to dawn on me how inconvenient strength 9 indies are for a blood nation...




How so? Seems like its equally inconvenient for all strategies which require blood, gold, or gems...

I've found that in multiplayer games of all sorts players are generally predisposed to not like things which make their progress slower - not because its harder to play but because they're moving slower than they're used to and feel like they're less competitive despite the fact everybody is in the same boat. This is compounded in this case by score graphs being off so you're not having any feedback on how everybody else is doing. Scouting is going to be tripply important in this game...:)

[Sawyer]

Well... I need blood slaves to spread my dominion.
But if I've only got a couple provinces, unrest gets too high and then my income is shot.
But I need my income to build troops to conquer other provinces to get blood slaves... to spread my dominion.
At least nations with self-perpetuating dominions aren't under threat of
a) Early-game Dom-kill or
b) Going bankrupt due to unrest.

[ano]

Why does your unrest "get too high"??
Actually, Baalz is right. Indy setting affects everyone but races without heavy sacreds or heavy pretender the most. Mictlan does have one of the best sacreds in the game and also a steady income of slaves to sacrifice.

[Sawyer]

Egh, it's probably just me overreacting.

In SP my unrest rarely got above 40, and I saw a red candle in a nearby province and wigged a bit and did some bloodhunting.
I think things are okay now...

[Revolution]

Ug...nothing like being in the middle of a mountain range...I feel like a single mother trying to feed a large family as I carefully dole out my 290g/turn. Thank god for alchemy. Could be worse...I feel bad for Patala, losing a pretender off the bat is rough; especially when your using monkeys to expand.

[ano]

Just an offer.
I'd like to trade death gems for astral ones 1 to 1. I need a total of 10 death gems, so if anyone is interested, please notify me

[ano]

Today R'lyeh has received bad news. Our strategic scout has been captured and slain. Yes, being a scout is not a walk in the park - it is a very dangerous occupation... But Tuumhaa was more unlucky than any scout ever, because he was captured by independents!!
Yes, that was a really bad day for R'lyeh...

[otthegreat]

Aaah so much heavy cavalry. I can almost hear my legionaires going squish under their hooves.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Us, the samurai of Jomon are disappointed to hear about the loss of Pythium's prophet. Such dishonorable assassinations are frowned on by the samuri. But Pythium can be assured that it was not us. Jomon only does honorable assassinations. We wish for a friendly relationship with our northern neighbor, and we ask if there is anything that we can do to prove our innocence.

[Sawyer]

Me'eKe'e regrets that his once-respectable scout saw fit not only to declare himself an independent state, but to also declare war upon the nation of R'lyeh. Me'eKe'e is not bothered so much by his subject's newfound thirst for independence, but rather his poor statesmanship so soon after his emancipation. Me'eKe'e is also confused as to what drove his child to do such a thing, but has decided not to let it bother him overmuch as he is sure the scout died with honor.
Still, Me'eKe'e has advised his followers not to drink the waters of R'lyeh.

[Revolution]

If it's brown drink it down...if it's black throw it back.

[otthegreat]

We of Pythium appreciate the sentiments voiced by Jomon. Yet, our prophet was killed by a ninja. Perhaps in our anger we assumed too much and this was some strange random event. We apologize for our strongly worded message to Jomon as we too desire friendship. Hopefully this unfortunate episode can be put behind us and we can move on. We hereby formally renounce our previous message.

[ano]

It seems like Chelms should be turned to AI because Kalash staled 3 times in a row. Do we use such riles?
Update: Looked at the first post and noticed that even 2 stales are enough as Baalz said.

[otthegreat]

I'll be gone so unable to send in turns due from Feb 19-22. I think this is about 2 turns. Should I get a sub?

[Baalz]

Otthegreat, I can grant a delay if you don't want/can't line up a sub, though it would be nice to keep the game running if you can.

In looking I just realized that there are no options for switching a player AI on the llamaserver, I'll ping llamabeast and see if he can set Chelms AI.

[ano]

I've read about switching player to AI in llamaserver FAQ. Here is the direct link
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531119

[Xietor]

typically you get someone not playing in the game to set a player to ai. just have the game admin send the turn to his email and the nonplayer can do it for you.

i only ask llamabeast if the player has a password(not neede for llamaserver games).

It is best for a person not in the gam to set a race to ai to avoid any unfairness of seeing the player's position and to avoid a cd key issue that occurs when you have 1 player sending in turns for to 2 races in the same game.

[Baalz]

Doesn't the new player need the password to change the nation to AI?

[Xietor]

very few players using the llamaserver should have passwords. totally not needed. but if a new player gets the turn and cannot set the tardy player's race to ai bc it has a pw, then the new player can get the pw from llamabeast.

with all the games llamabeast is hosting i try mightily not to bother him with setting races to ai. in future games i host, in the start up i will try to remember to specify that players do not pw protect their race.

it is impossible for anyone to get your turn using the llamaserver, so the pw is not necessary.

[otthegreat]

LDiCesar will be taking over for me while I'm gone.

[Jazzepi]

I'm out, computer is taking over for Midgard.

Baalz, if you could, please take me off the mailing list for the game.

Jazzepi

[LDiCesare]

Baalz, I sent you a pm with my email so I can take over while otthegreat can't play.

[Baalz]

Jazzepi, I think the llamaserver automatically handles that, let me know if you're still receiving turns. Switch Pythim's email to LDiCesare.

[Hadrian_II]

The priestesses of Arco never expected the demise of midgard, but we can ensure the population of midgard, that we will integrate them into our nation.

@Jazzepi: why are you quitting, your empire seems in quite good shape?

[Jazzepi]

I really can't stand the only in game diplomacy. I thought it would be neat for a change of pace, but it really just makes it impossible to be in multiple games.

I can't even cut and paste messages into the in game client =\

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

Heh, the idea was to significantly curtail diplomacy, not to give you a headache. Maybe talk less? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sawyer]

It's funny how it takes 3 turns to complete a conversation. I get my hopes up for the next turn and then I'm all like "damn..."

Also, R'lyeh's god is ontop of my capital, as well as enough troops to merit him bringing along a starspawn and some void creatures. I don't know how relevant this is, but it means these troops aren't in his turf north of the Black Sea. His capital is located off the coast of Cyprus. It would take him 4 turns traveling south to get back there. If I had gotten far enough on the research path I would have been happy forge goblets for anyone interested in doing some diving but there's a good amount of land territory around the Red Sea that you can still probably go for. My forces will probably hold up for two turns or so, unless something distracts him, at which point he'll be fighting on two fronts, and having good sacreds and good scales means I can probably replenish my forces easily enough to be a thorn in his side.
Just putting that out there.

[ano]

Heh, you killed (as I remember) more than 200 units and now say "I will hold for two turns or so"? Sounds pretty nice indeed. Unfortunately jaguars appeared much more tough against my chaff armies than I thought they were...

[llamabeast]

Jazzepi - when you get a message, hit "print screen", then paste it into Paint or something and archive it.

[Sawyer]

I'm being conservative here.

[Sawyer]

Huh... I think I missed a turn... has llamaserver been buggy for anyone?

[Baalz]

There was a weird bug I ran into in another game on the llamaserver last week where instead of receiving turn x I'd receive turn x-1 with a message saying it was processing a resend request. The first time I saw this I didn't realize the turn had hosted and ended up missing a turn, it repeated the next 3 turns. I mentioned it to Llamabeast, not sure if he did anything but the problem then went away. Did you unexpectedly get a "resending turn X" message?

[Hadrian_II]

I really liked how the nation of vanheim was divided. Rlyeh and TC got the provinces, and i got to kill the armies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

btw. rlyeh will soon be the first empire to go around the world (i know it is easyer in the water, but still)

[ano]

That's false. R'lyeh killed many vans and that was really tough.
I know that it's easier to kill vans with elephants than with chaff, but still)

[Revolution]

Hadrian_II said:
I really liked how the nation of vanheim was divided. Rlyeh and TC got the provinces, and i got to kill the armies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

btw. rlyeh will soon be the first empire to go around the world (i know it is easyer in the water, but still)



If it makes you feel better, I didn't get any of the castles. Also I'm just gonna go ahead and publicly state that I'm concerned about Ermor.

[Sawyer]

Did you unexpectedly get a "resending turn X" message?



I just did for THIS turn (I also got a normal received email,) but before that I just had a period where I didn't get llamaserver emails. I figured everyone was held up until I got a 3 hour warning at around 5 for a turn I don't remember receiving.

[llamabeast]

Hrmm. Very mysterious. I'm not even sure how to go about tracking this one down. Maybe I'll have a trawl through the logs tomorrow.

[llamabeast]

Incidentally I've now changed the default reminder e-mail warning period to 6 hours, which I think works well. It often saves me in my own games in fact, so you guys might consider changing yours from 4 to 6 hours.

[otthegreat]

Would it be okay if we delayed for a turn or so? (This Wed - Sat evening). BigandScary will be gone during this time as well.

[Falkor]

No problem for me. You have my support if needed.

[Sir_Dr_D]

A message from Jomon to Tien chi.

I forgot to reply in your in game message, so I am replying here. Your offer is accepted. You are free to do what you were asking permission to do. We will work out payment details in private.

Please respond that you have received this message.

[Revolution]

Sir_Dr_D said:
A message from Jomon to Tien chi.

I forgot to reply in your in game message, so I am replying here. Your offer is accepted. You are free to do what you were asking permission to do. We will work out payment details in private.

Please respond that you have received this message.



Excellent.

[Baalz]

otthegreat said:
Would it be okay if we delayed for a turn or so? (This Wed - Sat evening). BigandScary will be gone during this time as well.



Whoops, missed this. Yeah, I'll delay it after the next host.

[ano]

I also request the pause till Saturday evening. I'm already counting on it)

[Baalz]

Yeah, thanks for reminding me, hosting delayed due to three players being out.

[karnoza]

Message to Arcoscephale from Utgard.

I received a notification from you that our NAP3 is broken on turn 32. Does it mean that I will be attacked on turn 35?

[Hadrian_II]

karnoza said:
Message to Arcoscephale from Utgard.

I received a notification from you that our NAP3 is broken on turn 32. Does it mean that I will be attacked on turn 35?



yes

war preperations
elephants OK
research antimagic OK
have S mage OK
forget S gems & to script antimagic OK
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Revolution]

T'ien Ch'i is looking to aquire some nature gems (Pythium I'm lookin at you) I have Fire, water and air gems to trade for them

[otthegreat]

Well Baalz just about has me by the throat. I'll go down fighting but on my last turn I'll send you all my gems (mostly nature)because I'd rather not have them wasted.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Revolution said:
T'ien Ch'i is looking to aquire some nature gems (Pythium I'm lookin at you) I have Fire, water and air gems to trade for them



Jomon could use nature gems as well. I am fighting Ermor after all.

[ano]

We are ready to trade nature gems (from 10 to 20) for astral pearls 1 to 1.

[meister_miagi]

I'll trade you 20 of my Astral for 20 of your Nature gems!

[ano]

We have a deal. I send you 20 nature gems with no delay.

[ano]

I didn't receive any pearls form you, might Mr. Scorn.

[meister_miagi]

I'm sorry ano, I didn't read your reply in time! I will send you 20 Astral gems this turn!

[Revolution]

Tien still wants to trade fire/water/air gems for astral gems/nature gems.

[Hadrian_II]

Arco is death, we have 0 counters against jotunheim. (if you play an astral nation, and the only astral site you find is an abandoned laboratory you are in deep dire trouble)

So as we are death anyway, we can point out, that if not everyone gangs on rlyeh exactly now, rlyeh will win the game.

[Revolution]

You have my army well surrounded Falkor...this is most troubling.

I am still in DESPERATE need of nature gems and to a lesser extent astral gems as soon as possible. If someone were to get me some nature gems I'd be most appreciative and do my best to help them as well.

[Falkor]

Revolution said:
You have my army well surrounded Falkor...this is most troubling.




Ha!
You're sitting on an ant hill with nacked bottom! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
You are welcome to visit me in my capital. The invitation applies for your friends from Jomon as well.
But next time we wish you bring more human corpses. We have not much use for the ones of horses, you see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Btw, your alliance is somewhat weird. What are the conditions? Tien Chi is doing the job and Jomon is watching? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Good luck to both of you.

[Revolution]

The Empire of T'ien Ch'i would like to thank those who sent support in the form of nature gems to us. The gems will be put to good use, in ways that benefit the world as much as they do my glorious empire. Mrs. Rhubarb herself would especially like to thank one nation who shall remain anonymous, but who has recently sent many gifts for the betterment of the people of T'ien Ch'i. Your unexpected and thoughtful support will not be forgotten.

Niu Wang was a simple scout, skilled in the ways of stealth and secrecy...but something set him apart. His belief in Mrs. Rhubarb was so great, his devotion so fervent that he was able to rise from his humble beginnings and become a prophet to Mrs. Rhubarb. Through the power of his faith this scout, with little knowledge in the ways of war, was able to kill 204 enemies on the field of battle. Truly a national hero and an amazing display of what the power of Mrs. Rhubarb can do. Yesterday news came back from behind enemy lines, where Niu Wang had been leading a strike force deep into the heart of Ermor, that Niu Wang had been assassinated. What Ermor could not achieve on the battlefield they achieved through cowardice and treachery. My armies will fight on, your Ashen Angels will not separate us from our cause.


Now let us all take a moment of silence...to remember the greatness that was Niu Wang...the king of all scouts.


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll222/groooovin/Wang.jpg

[Falkor]

Revolution said:
...cowardice and treachery...




Coward is your ally starting a war and then hiding behind your back.
Treachery is the method of yours.
You started a crusade against our cold and dusty lands although we did not even border each other. You wanted to kill these already dead. Instead, you found your destiny in arms of Bellona. Half of your raiding party starved to death. The other half is left without a support from their false god. They will soon die and join our ranks.

To your "national hero"...
Well, we only hope that the heroes of Jomon will prove themselves more challenging than yours.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Jomon demands that Ermor quit hiding and statr fighting.

For many months King Kensi Yakato II has been waiting for your onslight, and excited at the opportunity to test him self in mighty combat. But you have not come.

The samuria have egarly awaiting your arrival and have been practicing their archery and swordsmanship. They too are hoping for honorable battle. But you have not come.


Now Jomon has come to you, and what do you do do. You hide in your castles in fear, or what ever it is that undead skeleton thingies feel.


We are ready. Come out and fight.

[Falkor]

Patience.
Your time will come.
Soon.

[karnoza]

Utgard would like to trade 20 or more nature gems. We have air, death and fire for exchange.

[Baalz]

Well, for anyone who cares, Pangea does not honor NAPs. Anybody who's signed one with them should consider it void, as they will attack as soon as you look like a good target. I'd attack now while Marignon occupies their attention.

[meister_miagi]

That's not true I sent you an ingame message declaring I would attack you in three turns.

[Baalz]

alright, I'm willing to accept I missed it and rescend my accusation. I'm still gonna beat you bloody though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

R'lyeh would like to ask for a pause next turn until May, 2nd (meaning 72 hours for the next turn, not 48). Also, if possible, I would like to ask to increase hosting time to 60-72 hours in a few turns.
Thanks.

[karnoza]

utgard also votes for a pause

[Baalz]

Turn interval changed to 72 hours, and I'll leave this permanently as we're into late game and things are definitely heating up.

[Baalz]

Is there anything more scary than R'yleh sitting around with the forge indefinitely? Anybody interested in pooling for a dispel?

[ano]

I would have helped if I wasn't gathering astral pearls for dispelling Sea of Ice)

[karnoza]

to Baalz: Its too late. Having conquered half the map, having a huge income of earth gems (blood stones even on commanders that teleport into my back areas, even though astral-earth mages dont need blood stones in my back areas), all the magic and lots of money, Rlyeh can cast globals faster, than we all combined can dispel them. Our last chance is to reclaim as many provinces as possible, but thats impossible because we dont cooperate. So just relax and try to have fun - the end is nigh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Baalz]

As per Ano's request:

Hosting postponed for Highlander by 9 hours. The game will now host at 01:25 GMT on Friday May 16th.

Probably needs more time as he's invading everybody simultaneously....

[ano]

No, I'm just defending. I never meant any offense)

[karnoza]

I'd like to thank all players and the host for the interesting game. Also I'd like to thank R'lyeh for fast and painful death. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I found out that it's impossible to win in ratio 1 to 20. See you in the further games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

Yeah, LA R'yleh is probably the strongest nation in the game and from what I've seen Ano has played them quite well. I'm guessing he'll have the victory wrapped up before too long, but I for one will require a smack down before I kneel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Revolution]

Originally Ermor, I went to war with you because I saw you fighting Jomon. I was concerned that you would quickly wipe out Jomon and then be neighboring me and spread your horrible dominion into my land. The end result of this action of mine has been a prolonged war between the two of us with no clear victor.

I would like to declare a truce with you, a cessation of hostilities... And then I would like to work with you, with Abysia, and with Marignon towards a common goal.

[Slobby]

Sadly Abysia is done and going ai. gg Ano! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Falkor]

Revolution said:
Originally Ermor, (...)

I would like to declare a truce with you, a cessation of hostilities... And then I would like to work with you, with Abysia, and with Marignon towards a common goal.



If you stay west from Jomon's capital leaving the east under my occupation we could start speaking about a truce and a "common goal".

[Baalz]

K guys, just so we're on the same page R'yleh is very close to winning the game. Its about time to drop everything else and (probably futilely) hit him everywhere with everything anybody's got at this point. More than likely when we do that we'll all realize it's too late already and call the game for Ano.

With the limited diplomacy and no score graphs its a bit hard to tell, but I think he owns over half the map at this point. As well as the forge for some time now and God knows how many clams and bloodstones.

[Baalz]

Well, I'm going to continue playing but I'm ready to concede as soon as everyone else comes to the same conclusion.

[ano]

Well, if you knew how tired I am of processing 1,5M turn files...
Looking at the game now I must say that if you co-operated around turn 50, everything could have gone in another way. Utgard was the strongest of you four and now it is gone so I don't think that the game result can be changed in the long run. But if you want, we may continue.

[Revolution]

Coordination is so very difficult with the limited diplomacy. even now if we all worked together against you I don't know how we would do it without running into each others armies.

...We should have attacked you the second you put up the forge :/

[ano]

Maybe. I can't say what could have happened if you did it then. I just know for sure that if you four did ally against me, it could be very hard.
So.. Do you concede or we continue playing? It was a good game anyway.
Probably, I won't start making my moves until you give answers. I hope you will understand if I ask for a small delay if someone still wishes to play.

btw, Revolution, sorry for that teleported and slayed starspawn. It was a "wrong-click" mistake not a breaking of NAP.

[Baalz]

Ok, lets put it this way: does anyone object to conceding to Ano? I concur with him that I don't see any other way for this to end, anybody disagree? FYI, in case anybody hasn't tasted it yet he's got several huge roving bands of (freely spawning and replacable) chaff buffed with army of lead/gold + will of the fates + antimagic backed by strong mages, loads of mind hunters, etc.

[Revolution]

I'm willing to concede but if any of the powers left want to fight on then I will as well.

[ano]

Not only antimagic. I have all possible magic actually. Mass regeneration, Fog warriors, heavy blood etc. Also I have and will have shortly several nice thugs/scs. You may ask karnoza, he will tell...
Also I have a big income of gems and slaves (something around 500 in total), 12000 income and tons of mages who have nothing else to do but go fighting.
Baalz, I'd like to know, how many of your mages I feebleminded. At least 7-8 should be feebleminded in total if not more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

...So it's up to Falkor to decide. Let's wait)

[Falkor]

I agree with you guys. We have a winner.
If we have not a motivation and morale to play we should finnish it then. To be fair we should also ask Maister_Miagi, Karnoza and Sir_Dr_D who still are more or less in the game.

[Baalz]

ano said:

Baalz, I'd like to know, how many of your mages I feebleminded. At least 7-8 should be feebleminded in total if not more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.




Sorry, I wasn't really counting. That sound about right though.

[ano]

To be fair we should also ask Maister_Miagi, Karnoza and Sir_Dr_D who still are more or less in the game


Karnoza has gone to AI this turn. The other two staled so much that they definitely should be there long ago.

[karnoza]

Ano is winner. Conglaturations!

[Baalz]

GG Ano, I'm marking the game as done!

[Falkor]

Congratulations Ano.
Thanks everyone for a good game.

[ano]

A brief AAR)
I had a rather poor starting loc with only 2 bordering sea provinces (one of them had around 100 amber tritons) so I decided to expand on land and to build castles there. So I expanded in two directions, found good moments to capture things that cried for being captured (that was the way a got Midgard capital while Arco was fighting its AI Armies). I aimed for the endgame and tried to get as little wars with human players (the only nations I was in war with were Mictlan, Ermor and Pangaea) as possible and captured, captured and captured what was controlled by AI.
Yes, I was lucky to find garnet amazons early on, to hide them from karnoza's eyes (Arco and Ulm, however, said nothing about them) and to develop a decent blood stone economy. However, I was very unlucky with magic sites. All seas (there're quite many of them in Alexander, you know) contained 0 astral sites in total. I searched heavily with mages and spells but results were poor. My first land astral site was found near turn 20 (1 pearl) so my astral income was VERY small and it was based mainly on other schools sites. I could not even cast teleports and counted each pearl. FoTA helped a lot))
In the end I had about 80 temples, 12000 income/6000 upkeep, all magic combos available, 120-130 astral and earth income, 30-40 gem income per other schools and about 140 slaves/turn. I could to virtually anything and Arcane Nexus was near.

Thanks, everybody, for the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ano]

And a few more words on the nation.
Yes, LA R'lyeh is a powerhouse, but it will be doomed in the hand of careless player unless he is lucky. They need lots of micromanagement and absolutely poor land troops (I realized it rather late, btw, having lost almost all chaff I had to mictlan 40 PD and 50 non-double blessed jaguars). Their chaff is nothing without heavy mage support (Astral geyser is wonderful and so are Nether Darts) or powerful end-game buffs. That's the time they start to shine...
So, R'lyeh can be played against if it is treated correctly. It has rather many weak points and can be "held in a cage".

Probably, I'll write what I think about them in the discussion forum some time later

[Revolution]

Congratulations Ano, you have bested me once again!

This was a very enjoyable game for me. It was a great learning experience to fight LA Ermor for so long, trying to come up with ways to counter his undead legions. I found that my conventional armies would generally begin to starve even with supply producing items (Horses are hungry)...Any army big enough to take a castle generally got smoked by Falkor's Lich Queen who would drop Earthquake and other fun spells in her dominion heavy environment. So...I ended up making a dozen bane lords, kitting them out and raiding to keep Falkor on the defensive. Every province I took over I would generally bring up to 20PD to make taking it back a chore to take back for Falkor. Eventually I upgraded to Golem SC's but Falkor got 2 of those with destruction and one went down to Utgard when we both went for a arco castle. At the end I was starting to make Tartarians but I don't know how effective that would have been with no chalice and no gift of health.

It seemed like a neat idea at first...but I ended up hating the limited diplomacy. It took away one of my favorite things about the game...it made communication absolutely painful. But still, it was a neat idea to try out.

Thanks for the game everyone!

[ano]

It was rather strange to see you attacking Ermor with Banelords as they are countered really easy with death magic. Even spectator casting Dust to dust with the Eye of Aiming is almost a certain death for a banelord.
Or maybe I misunderstand something...

Btw, I still don't understand why my scripted Undead Mastery + Vortex of Returning did not work twice in a row when it worked fine in tests...

[Revolution]

ano said:
It was rather strange to see you attacking Ermor with Banelords as they are countered really easy with death magic. Even spectator casting Dust to dust with the Eye of Aiming is almost a certain death for a banelord.
Or maybe I misunderstand something...




I was using them because they are cheap and would not fatigue against all his chaff. the idea was that they would mostly be for taking his provinces that were just defended with PD and chaff, not scripted mages. ...and they are so very very cheap.

[Baalz]

Yeah, I tried something a bit different and mass producing soul contracts. Unfortunately I got off to a pretty slow start and got boxed in by my neighbors so I stalled a bit until I could get critical mass of devils. My hoards of devils were obnoxiously effective in taking out Pythium and Pangea, they were just too late to the game with R'yleh's power curve. Absent those unbeatably buffed armies I think there's a good chance I would have rapidly swept the board at that point as my blood economy had just been supercharged by my rapid gains in territory, so I figure that's a doable strategy with a better start and faster devils brought to the table.

[ano]

Yes, that is an interesting and maybe viable strategy. In the midgame I was surprised when I noticed you being so non-aggressive. I even thought that someone else controls Marignon and you gave it up long ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Later I understood what was going on and tried to harm you with mind hunts, feebleminding and distant attacks. I even made you equip your angels with antimagic items))
Also it seems to me that soul contract is too valuable to be worn on a vulnerable commander. He is too much susceptible to horror marks as well as distant spells. Maybe it is a better idea to wear contracts on astral mages with returning. IIRC, Marignon can get S2 mages?

[Baalz]

Yeah, your mind hunts were annoying,to be sure. Are you to thank for the earth attacks as well, or was that Pangea? It did stall me a couple turns when I had to send a second wave of angels equipped with MR items to collect my leaderless devils, but mostly it just significantly increased my micro as I had to keep shuffling around blood hunters (after I figured out where the hell they died! grrrr). By that point I was summoning roughly one angel per turn with my blood economy and sending him out with the freely spawning devils. Seemed more annoying really, than effective, but who knows....I never did have a surplus of angels.

Marignon can get S2 mages with randoms, but nothing regular and I was SOOOO pinched for gold. Sitting in the mountains, boxed in by both the topography and my neighbors plus axing my income further to blood hunt, the reason I was being so non-aggressive is because I had just enough income to recruit my cheapest mage out of each of my castles (no troops!) and just enough blood income to forge about one soul contract every other turn with my pretender. My one army sat glaring at Man's big army across the border (who kicked me out of the one farmland territory near me), I couldn't move it for fear of Man invading and I couldn't attack without taking huge losses even if I won.

In all honesty I think the insanity from your dominion hurt me more than the feebleminding. My blood hunters would decide they were insane and start preaching, then the next turn when they were fine...they kept preaching rather than blood hunting until I noticed and set them back. The micro from that and replacing the ones you mind hunt was driving me nuts and I kept missing some! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

BTW, did Astral Corruption hurt much? I saw the forge went down in the last turn which is what I was really hoping for (as if it mattered much by then)....

[ano]

I noticed you had a weak dominion and tried my best to build you up with temples and make it even weaker actually http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Also you had rather poor scales and death for a bloodhunting race hurts much. So I understood that while I could hold you back, your potential was dwindling.
Yes, earth attacks were also mine, as well as flames from the sky in your capital. I understood it is unwise to cast flames on a army of devils but I knew that there were also mages and commanders with contracts. If I killed at least four, I think, the spell paid for itself. Frankly speaking, I just didn't have an appropriate target that turn so Furcas targeted your capital http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. It also seems that I killed a total of 6 angels with distant attacks.
Btw, it just could not be Pangaea because he staled several times the same turn I casted Earth Attack))

[ano]

Corruption didn't hurt much but the last turn I lost a big fight for Utgard capital and lost almost everything I had there (Utgard lost everything but damn immortal mummy that never runs). I lost some unique items and a handful of mages but that was like a drop in the sea actually. A FoTA caster died there as well so I was lucky that your AC dispelled FoTA))
One of the main reasons why I lost was that my equipped fairy queen who should have casted Mass regen and Fog warriors died from a horror as she was already horrormarked. My main wish-empowered Chtugul who kept Strands of Arcane Power was scripted to also attacked but was scripted to Returning. No more attacks happened. Probably, clam forgers who use 5-1 gems for a clam didn't seem to be good enough targets for horrors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I planned to restore FoTA this turn with elemental king (I was thinking hard how to protect him from horror), to kill Mother Oak caster and next turn to raise either Purgatory or Wrath of God depending on who would seem bigger danger. Also I planned to cast 300-350 gems Dispel. I hope, it would have been enough for your AC.

[ano]

In all honesty I think the insanity from your dominion hurt me more than the feebleminding. My blood hunters would decide they were insane and start preaching, then the next turn when they were fine...they kept preaching rather than blood hunting until I noticed and set them back.


Actually my turns were soooo long because I usually checked that every single commander, hunter, mage etc did what I wanted him to not what HE decided was better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif:)
That's madness!

[Baalz]

AC was cast with just shy of 500 slaves. I figured you'd be trying to dispel, and saved up for a few turns (and Utgard contributed 150)