Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!

[Annette]

News Release For Immediate Release


Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
New Win, Mac, Linux Patch Ready For Immediate Download!


Hampstead, NC, 28 January 2008

Who says January has to be an unexciting time for computer gaming? Illwinter Game
Design and Shrapnel Games are pleased to announce a new patch for the multi-award
winning fantasy strategy title, Dominions 3, overflowing with the delectable goodness
you've come to expect from Illwinter.

Bringing the retail game to version 3.14 the patch includes something for everyone, even
your dear old grandmother! Like new nations? Of course you do! And so you get a new
late age nation, Bogarus! Do you get your mod on? Version 3.14 adds a number of
helpful modding commands for everyone who enjoys tweaking the game. What about
bugs, you say? 3.14 kills bugs deader than Britney Spears' career.

The complete list of changes found in the 3.14 patch includes:

* NEW! A new late era nation called Bogarus!
* NEW! Bakemono got a new scout.
* NEW! New random events.
* Spell AI: Touch of madness and Berserkers avoids casters and archers to some extent.
* Spell AI: No longer casts LoS on armorless units.
* Modding: Increased maximum number of descriptions.
* Modding: Max number of nations and nametypes increased.
* Modding: New monster commands: #darkpower, #firepower, #coldpower,
#stormpower, #fallpower, #winterpower, #summerpower, #springpower, #darkvision,
#onebattlespell, #patrolbonus.
* Modding: New item commands: #newitem, #descr, #weapon, #armor, #type, #name,
#copyspr.
* Modding: New spell command: #nextspell.
* FIXED! MR bless bonus was sometimes displayed incorrectly.
* FIXED! Dominion sometimes spread in incorrect ways.
* FIXED! Legions of Steel bug fixed.
* FIXED! 'y'-screen bug fix.
* FIXED! Caster of Stygian Paths took 1 point of damage for each unit under his
command instead of the units taking the damage.
* FIXED! Stygian Paths reported random number of lost on the way.
* FIXED! Ritual casting magic items could malfunction.
* FIXED! Bug preventing more than a hundred sprites or so in mods has been
squashed.
* FIXED! Several minor fixes to monster stats and magic sites.
* FIXED! Dance of the morrigans fixed.
* FIXED! Setting 1920x1200 resolution didn't work properly.
* More magic sites enabled in caves.
* Scathach got her magic and flight.
* Hydra sacred all the way.

Please note that prior score graphs will disappear when the version 3.14 patch is applied.

The version 3.14 patch is available for Windows, Mac, and Linux and can be downloaded
directly from Shrapnel Games at:

www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/6.htm (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/6.htm)

Dominions 3 is an award-winning juggernaut of turn-based strategy gaming that make
most other strategy games weep in envy. Available for all popular operating systems
(Win, Mac, Linux) Dominions 3 is a game that isn't afraid to use the word 'epic' to
describe its gameplay and really mean it. You can recruit, research, empower, forge,
battle, search, pray, blood hunt, assassinate, move, storm castles, enchant items, sneak,
build, starve, heal, scout. Enjoy three eras of play, scores of nations, well over a
thousand unique units, hundreds of magic spells and items, twenty-one players in a single
game, random map creation, a manual that could choke Linda Lovelace, and more.

Dominions is also a game that is constantly growing. From the wonderful official
support of the developers who have added expansion packs worth of new content since its
original release, to the fan base with their ever growing mod library, Dominions 3 is a
living, breathing organism. In an era where a Grant will get you six hours of gameplay,
that same Grant will get you thousands of hours of gameplay with Dominions 3.

For more information on what may be the last fantasy strategy game that you'll ever
need, please visit:

www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/1.htm (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/1.htm)

A complete catalog of Shrapnel Games products may be accessed by visiting us at
www.shrapnelgames.com. (http://www.shrapnelgames.com.) Since 1999 Shrapnel Games has brought a wide array of
unique titles to gamers around the globe, both in computer and board format. Be sure to
check out current favorites such as Air Assault Task Force, Weird Worlds: Return to
Infinite Space, and WinSPWW2, along with upcoming titles such as Eat Electric Death!
and ETO: European Theatre of Operations.

[MKDELTA]

Awesome! DLing now...

[vfb]

Thank you Illwinter and Shrapnel!

[ano]

Bogarus seems to be way too powerful. National mages for 160 gold doing 8 research and for 250 doing 12 research. It's too much for late era)
And powerful blood, astral and fire. Well, I think, it'll definitely become one of the top races in the late age.

[Kuritza]

Yes, mages and especially researchers are great. But troops are sub-par, dont underestimate raw power. Mitclan, Rlyeh and Ermor are still LA kings.

[archaeolept]

high research; access to all paths if you include national summons; large number of path combos. However, troops are not great, sacred probably useless, fairly expensive mages as far as using them in the battlefield.

that research is impressive though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[MKDELTA]

My Bogarus impressions.

Troops: crap. 8 prec archers? Heaviest infantry has 13 prot? D:
Mages: Oh nice. Great research. Lots of variety. BLOOD. Must most likely largely depend on communion circle games to get "serious" battle magic. Lightning bolts are always nice though.
Priests & Sacreds: H3! Nice. If you only had blessable troops...well you do, but they're like flagellants, except worse in combat. Fivefold Angel = freakiest thing ever. Nnnice. Those flag clones seem more like an SF tool than combat troop. Okay.
Summons: Oh my pretenders what a freak show. Definitively not your usual "big scary sacred summons". Well, at least not until Smey. Special forces stuff here too. The flying dog is bugged, it has Falchion, which is actualy nice, but it most likely shouldn't have it. Seducing Sirins! Get your skelly amulets ready. Flying plague spirits and H3 priests. Oh ho.

Conclusion: pretty easy to squash untill you gear your special forces up...then...you can most likely make your enemies life hell on combat and outside of it. You got troops which curse enemies and cause bad luck in the province they dwell in. You got seducers. Troops designed to plague other troops. Good communion potential. Lots of magic variety. Etc.

[Kuritza]

Communion, yeah. Perhaps the best communion available so far, of all nations. Combat magic-wise, look at the occultists. Easy nether bolts and nether darts for you. Cheap archers for flaming arrows and wind guide. Astral fire is another nice spell some Startsy are capable of (all of them if you light of the northern star, for example).
Too bad there's no foot archer with a composite bow, tsk tsk, but nevermind.

Five-fold angels got a 'fist' weapon btw, though description says the've cut their hands off. Perhaps it should be 'stump'? Goddamn freaky things if you ask me... Just the thing I like Dominions for. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Khlysty, Skotpsy - quite authentic btw, really nice to see such details.
Another thing is, Druzhina is a name of the troop, not unit. Like 'cavalry' as opposed to 'cavalryman'. Heck, there's no such difference in English maybe... but individual warriors were called Druzhinnik and Griden' (last letter soft, not sure how to spell it) or just Grid. Not that its of any importance, of course.
And God did I laugh while reading Baba Yaga's (national hero) description. True Baba Yaga as she should be! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks mr. developer.

[archaeolept]

also they have the marverni "champion of the horn" as a pretender choice... is that correct? Just seems strange given the "flavour" text.

edit: sorry, I had worthy heroes 1.8 enabled ... no marverni hornblower normally http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Meglobob]

Thanks for the new patch.

[WraithLord]

Thank you IW for the patch. Your support of this game is IMO top notch in the gaming industry.

Though I've been through similar upgrades in the past, I would still like to make sure what is the correct procedure for upgrade of MP games. And, how is it possible to backup the previous version (backup exe is enough?)?

[archaeolept]

wraith: copy your current dom3.exe and rename it (i renamed it to dom310.exe) - running that executable will bring up a 3.10 version game, including for your MP games.

then run the patch - you'll have two executables for the two patch versions...

When whomever is running the MP game updates the server to 3.14, then you'll have to migrate over to the new dom3.exe

[RonD]

Just to be safe, I copy the whole folder, and apply the patch only to one of the copies.

[Amos]

The modding manual wasnt updated with the new item commands. I know they are basic but still...

[Loren]

Do I read correctly that the battlefield overload bug that came back in 3.10 isn't killed??

[Endoperez]

Amos, check the modding forum.

[Torin]

maybe this should be sticky instead of the old post that´s stickied right now.

[Cor2]

"* Spell AI: Touch of madness and Berserkers avoids casters and archers to some extent."

I LUV you! *smak* big kiss on cheek.

[llamabeast]

The Bogarus look really awesome. Very freaky. THe Fivefold Angel really is twisted.

My only quibble is that the horses look a bit funny (too long). Also, 12 research for 250 gold! That is insane! Even 9 research for that would be extremely good.

[llamabeast]

Also, just to check: Bogarus is based on Russia, right?

[ano]

Yes, it is;)

[Kristoffer O]

Hi!

I hope you like the patch.

The Bogarus graphics are made by Gabriella, the IW intern. Not sure if that is mentioned in the press release, but she's in the credits.

I have references to the concept of the fivefold fivefold angel in my encyclopedia of religion, but they didn't remove their hands. I think that was Gabriella's idea. I'm quite fond of how they turned out.

[MKDELTA]

The graphics are nice, albeit different from the general Dominions 3 style. The bit "stretched" horse graphics are my only quibble too. I haven't compared units pixel to pixel, but Bogarussians also look slightly taller than ordinary humans in Dominions.

[Taqwus]

Oh, spiffy. Sounds inteeeerresting.

Been distracted quite a bit by an (unfortunately quite buggy, currently) computer port of EiA, but will have to check this out -- and the changes to Touch of Madness sound very nice. Once had a minor caster cast it on my pretender, heh.

[VedalkenBear]

Taqwus: EiA... Empires in Arms? There's a port of it?

Re: Bogarus:

1) Their national troops are quite bad, especially for late era. Luckily for them, that isn't their focus.

2) Incredible magic for LE. Cheap site-searcher in the Occultist (I think his name is), a good versatile capital-only mage, and a researcher. Plus varied other stuff.

3) Lady of Springs is quite an interesting pretender for them, since she gives them Water and Nature magic, and the gems to use their water summons. I actually was playing a Water-4, Earth-2, Death-1, Nature-4 AWAKE Lady of Springs for a bit. Bought the capital-only Mage first turn, prophetized my original commander, and could immediately search for every site possible between those 3.

4) Summons are quite interesting.

a) Dog: It's armed with a Falchion? Is this a bug? OTOH, it flies and has a patrol bonus of 20. IOW, it can catch most anything.

b) Firebird: Pretty much one-shot wonder, given the lack of defense. Other stuff is more likely better.

c) Lady Midday: Looks really good. Flying, Ethereal, _not Undead_, Fear(0), and armed with a disease-carrying Scythe. Oh, and troop. I can imagine getting 20 of these together will cause havoc.

d) Sirin: Interesting Seductress, but can't kill anything if she doesn't actually seduce the target.

e) Next Harpy: Holy-3, Standard(20), Flying Leader. Looks good to me.

Haven't really seen the others yet.

5) Heroes:

I got one that might be a multihero. Basically, a Holy-1 Leadership 120 Standard(20) beater. (Cavalry)

Aaaaand... Baba Yaga showed up. She's Air-3, Water-1, Death-4, and Nature-2. And she flies (as she should). Note she has many paths (Water, Death, and Nature) that you generally can't get otherwise. Also, she is by far the best Leader I've seen for Bogarus to command their magical/demon flying troops. (Lady Midday, Devils, and Storm Demons.)

More when I find it.

[BesucherXia]

I love this patch and can accept those "stretched" horses, but feel those 250gold/12rp mages really a little too uber. Are they really supposed to be so powerful?
I mean, even in EA it is quite rare too see a national researcher with 10+ rp, and usually I can only purchase a 6-8rp mage with those 250 gold.

[MKDELTA]

VedalkenBear said:
d) Sirin: Interesting Seductress, but can't kill anything if she doesn't actually seduce the target.


Give them those skeleton summoning amulets (I forgot the name :/). That'll kill a lot of regular commanders.

[archaeolept]

well, they don't have much other than those mages... we'll see how "uber" they actually are in MP soon enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[VedalkenBear]

Well, you have mages that are akin to EA or good MA nations. OTOH, you also have national troops that are akin to EA or bad MA nations (and, IMO, that's being _generous_).

Basically, you can think of Bogarus as an odd 'port' of S&A TC. You have quite a few different mages, some quite good. But your military is (IMO) worse than S&A. Sure, you _could_ go with the Cavalry, but they're extremely expensive and not especially worth it in the Late Age.

Besides, their researcher is 160g for Astral-2, and one random in... what, Fire, Air, Astral, or Blood? That's not bad, but it compares interestingly to Jomon's Onmyoji. You lose one random off of the mage in exchange for 3 RP and the ability to actually get your pick in the path you already have.

Also, I'll point out the distinct lack of anything resembling a bless strategy in their national troops. Their bless 'troop' is incredibly specialized, and they don't get mage-priests for that kind of bless, either. Nothing I've seen in the summons shows much in the way of summoned bless troops.

Also, they're not the most efficient blood nation on the face of the earth, given that their 'best' blood hunter is 110g and non-sacred.

[Shovah32]

I haven't seen any of the summons above level 5, and not all the ones below it.
Zmeys are great chaff killers. With multiple attacks, decent health and firebreath they are very handy.

The Lady Midday is probably my favourite. Ethereal, fear and flying allow them to reach the enemy quickly and scare off many weaker troops. Any who stay around for a while often get cut down by their Scythes(19 damage magic weapon at 11 attack and causes disease?).
On attack rear or archers, they are monsters. Most troops back there, other than very high defence rear-guards, will fall to these guys. Archers will run(8 routed 30 archers in 1-2 turns) and commanders - particularly the giants I was fighting, get cut to pieces.

If you can get the mages, 1-2 castings of Send Bukavac will take out most underwater independants. Follow it up with either a flying, amphibious commander(I like to give my fivefold angels winged shoes, so a ring of water breathing can be added too) or a Send Vodyanoy spell(who can also search for many underwater sites) to get a nice hold in the water far away from your main empire. Get up a lab and you could start gating in troops to strike an enemy far away from under the sea.

[Taqwus]

VedalkenBear said:
Taqwus: EiA... Empires in Arms? There's a port of it?




Yep. Not really on-topic here, but there's one published by Matrix Games. Just beware the bugs, as some of them can be extremely nasty (like, oh, human-controlled nations being spontaneously taken over by the less-than-brilliant AI; or nations surrendering to France instead of someone else, even if they're not at war with France).



Aaaaand... Baba Yaga showed up. She's Air-3, Water-1, Death-4, and Nature-2. And she flies (as she should). Note she has many paths (Water, Death, and Nature) that you generally can't get otherwise. Also, she is by far the best Leader I've seen for Bogarus to command their magical/demon flying troops. (Lady Midday, Devils, and Storm Demons.)



Sounds tasty. Offers a path towards Spectres and Lamia Queens, and some more options if one can get the water up.

[Edi]

While we're on the subject of the new patch, I'm looking forward to taking a look at it, but any DB updates are currently postponed for the near future. Once I do get to it, it won't take long to add the new units, though any new specialties will just be tacked on to the end instead of new columns inserted between existing ones.

I've made some promises regarding some HoMM5 maps (translations), so I need to keep those. Then you lot can conveniently blame Kaljamaha for getting me The Witcher for a Christmas present, so that's put other things on backburner. And after eleven months of being constantly around the forums and riding herd on the shortlist, I do need a bit of a break from Dominions, so The Witcher is precisely what the doctor ordered. While I will be around, it won't be with the kind of intensity many here are used to. I'll keep checking the bug discussion and jotting down notes on what needs to be added, but I'm going to have to cut things back unless I want to burn out.

[lch]

One of the players in one of my MP games reports a problem. I patched the server to 3.14, I think he didn't yet. He wants to upload his turn orders and the server just keeps sending him the current turn again, over and over and over.

I haven't heard from the others yet, did anybody else experience anomalies like this?

[Edi]

Oh, ands this needs to be stickified asap!

[ryo_akashi]

The Bogarus graphics look cool, a lot more details went into the pix. Nice job for Gabriella.

The color used on the national recruits is a little dull and dark though. It's hard to differentiate the pics on the recruitment screen and the commander selection screen.

[Slobby]

ryo_akashi said:
The Bogarus graphics look cool, a lot more details went into the pix. Nice job for Gabriella.



Seconded.

How were hydras changed?

[Sir_Dr_D]

This new nation makes Mictlan look like saints, and makes Flagellants seem sane.

Very flavourably dark. The graphics look great.

[Salamander8]

Thanks for another patch to this excellent game!

I'll have to give this new nation a try in the near future.

[sector24]

Slobby said:

How were hydras changed?



All the heads are sacred now, not just the first one.

[Slobby]

I never knew the main head could be blessed. Shouldn't the sacred candle icon show up then? I just ran a test with sauro, and the smaller heads didn't get blessed.

[Endoperez]

Slobby said:
I never knew the main head could be blessed. Shouldn't the sacred candle icon show up then? I just ran a test with sauro, and the smaller heads didn't get blessed.



It's a bug with the Sacred Hydras of LA Pythium, Serpent Cult. All secondshape forms of their Hydra weren't correctly linked, so that if they got enough damage (I'm not sure if it was after the first head died, or after several) they changed into one of the shapes of the NON-sacred hydra. That means that after the battle, they got back to full non-sacred hydra hp, and lost sacred forever. This is the bug that was fixed, with no effect on Sauromatia/MA Pythium.

[Foodstamp]

Yay, I can play all my mod nations at one time. Thanks <3.

[Saxon]

When I first saw the name, I thought it was a nation based on Bogus. Perhaps the troll adventurer had settled down and had declared himself a god. Perhaps in the next patch...

[Cerlin]

Yeah I thought something similar Saxon. Im not sure where they got the name this time.
About the horses graphic, maybe it is supposed to be like a Steppe pony? Those are generally more squat than normal european style ones. Thoughts?

[MKDELTA]

Cerlin said:
About the horses graphic, maybe it is supposed to be like a Steppe pony? Those are generally more squat than normal european style ones. Thoughts?

OK, that would make sense.

[Saxon]

For the name, the "rus" part shows a clear link to Russia, which the Baba Yaga is part of. Not sure about the rest.

[thejeff]

I believe Bog is a Russian word for God.

[Zeldor]

Yes, it is. They didn't use real slavian names and spelling so probably almost everyone spells it wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I hoped to see rather more traditional Slavian nation, from western regions. It wouldn't have blood then, but rather death, earth, nature and vampires.

[Cerlin]

hmm I always thought that LA Ulm was a nod to the baltic slavic nations. With the vampires and such.

[PurpleRhino]

Bakemono scout is bugged. Has a +-25 to stealth, so in other words, he sucks at stealth. Also a scout with 40 leadership?
Oh and the Bogarus units looks quite awesome. Maybe we can look forward to some of the older pictures being replaced/updated? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[johan osterman]

Cerlin said:
Yeah I thought something similar Saxon. Im not sure where they got the name this time.
About the horses graphic, maybe it is supposed to be like a Steppe pony? Those are generally more squat than normal european style ones. Thoughts?


Gabriella*, being a teen girl, had some views about the appearence of steppe horses. I have no idea how accurate they are but she had strong opinions on their supposed appearence.

*Gabriella is the illwinter intern who drew the Bogarus graphics.

[MKDELTA]

PurpleRhino said:
Maybe we can look forward to some of the older pictures being replaced/updated? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

That would be very nice. In fact, one of my wishes for the next patch. Some graphics have been about the same since Dom 1. Void Lord and Illithids for one.

[llamabeast]

The one that bothers me the most is the vampire count. He doesn't look too hot to me. In fact he looks a bit silly. Also longdead could be updated. Worthwhile since they are seen so often.

[Zeldor]

johan osterman:

Well, what do you expect from a woman? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

archaeolept said:
wraith: copy your current dom3.exe and rename it (i renamed it to dom310.exe) - running that executable will bring up a 3.10 version game, including for your MP games.

then run the patch - you'll have two executables for the two patch versions...

When whomever is running the MP game updates the server to 3.14, then you'll have to migrate over to the new dom3.exe



A word of warning. This procedure, which used to work in dom-II and older dom-III patches is not working anymore. When applied and when trying to play a turn hosted with 3.10 version and using the backed up exe the game quits with an error that the turn is of an older dominions version.

At this point I was thinking, hey good thing I've backed up my entire dom-III folder.
Wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

The game gives the same error:
"Nagot gick fel!
Dominions version is too old.
Get an update at www.illwinter.com (http://www.illwinter.com)
myversion 309 fileversion 314 nation 31"

It could be that I've stumbled on to a corner issue, but for me, I can't play 3.10 turns after upgrading to 3.14.

[WraithLord]

Ok, my bad archaeolept. Your suggested procedure does indeed work.

I've continued to check the issue and found out that it was actually my fault: apparently for the games I've tested there was created a .h file of version 3.14. That's why they were not loaded correctly when using version 3.10.

The important thing is to be consistent when playing turns either with the older or the newer version.

[Loren]

Loren said:
Do I read correctly that the battlefield overload bug that came back in 3.10 isn't killed??



Checking an old game: The bug is gone, it's just not listed as being fixed.

[Sansloy]

Great new material as usual. I think that the Bogarus faction adds a nice, new, deliciously bloody spin on the Late Ages.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a strange graphical issue that cropped up for me after installing the patch. Most unit graphics and other icons (including nation flags, forts, temples, etcetera) have lines along the outside, like where the edges would be on a box around them. Similarly, there seem to be "tears" that manifest as long lines both horizontally and vertically across the entire map. The lines make it look as if the map has been "folded" and then opened again, leaving creases. I think that the lines even show up on some of the main interface screens as well.

Is anyone else having this problem? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else on the forums at least.

[Cerlin]

I would have to agree with Gabriella that those do look like good steppe horses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
they are squat and have more endurance than the bigger chargers uses for most European knights.
So therefore after initial annoyance, and after I realized they are supposed to be Russians. Then the fact that they use steppe ponies makes totally sense, since of course any good historian knows that Russia is on the steppe (i am historian by trade incidentally.)
And for those who don't know, the steppe is the huge grass plain that stretches from the Ukraine all the way to Mongolia, quite an awesome piece of geography. It is prime horse archer land historically speaking.

Oh also Illwinter, thank you again for such an amazing nation! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I really enjoy the thematic feel of this nation and all nations.

[Endoperez]

Sansloy said:
Great new material as usual. I think that the Bogarus faction adds a nice, new, deliciously bloody spin on the Late Ages.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a strange graphical issue that cropped up for me after installing the patch. Most unit graphics and other icons (including nation flags, forts, temples, etcetera) have lines along the outside, like where the edges would be on a box around them. Similarly, there seem to be "tears" that manifest as long lines both horizontally and vertically across the entire map. The lines make it look as if the map has been "folded" and then opened again, leaving creases. I think that the lines even show up on some of the main interface screens as well.

Is anyone else having this problem? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else on the forums at least.




I suggest taking a few screenshots (press PrintScreen/PrtScr, then paste into your favourite image editor) and starting a new thread. I know that small folds come from how Dominions handles huge maps, but it could be that the last patch changed that somehow. It'd be easier to determine if you can post some pictures.

[Slobby]

Endoperez said:

It's a bug with the Sacred Hydras of LA Pythium, Serpent Cult. All secondshape forms of their Hydra weren't correctly linked, so that if they got enough damage (I'm not sure if it was after the first head died, or after several) they changed into one of the shapes of the NON-sacred hydra. That means that after the battle, they got back to full non-sacred hydra hp, and lost sacred forever. This is the bug that was fixed, with no effect on Sauromatia/MA Pythium.



Thanks!

[FedSlayer]

Also doesn't say anything about T'ien Ch'i national anti-aging spell being fixed - it adds years to age instead of subtracting them!

[Ghill]

I may have missed this somewhere but, does this patch cover all of the previous patches or do I need to download them all in order?

Sorry, I am new to this...

[Ballbarian]

It should cover all of the previous patches.

[Sombre]

Just wanted to add that the graphics in Bogarus are really top notch and I like the fact they're a little different from the rest of the basegame graphics because it gives the nation a unique flavour.

[Wrana]

Firstly, the appearance of Russian folklore-based faction is certainly fun. Especially for those who know that there very few sources on this folklore, and those that exist are usually from later periods. I was certainly very pleased by Simargl (accidentally, it WAS sometimes depicted armed with scimitar!) and various lady birds!
However, some other things give impression that it's really a project for 2 (or more) factions from a different time periods. For example, Druzhina cavalry is certainly from a "heroic Age" (historically, it existed in 10th-14th centuries, and in legends it is mostly related to Knyaz Vladimir Krasnoe Solnyshko ("The Red Sun") - a character based on rulers of 10th - Vladimir Svyatoslavitch and 12th - Vladimir Monomach - centuries), while sectants such as Khlysts appeared after 17th century (accidentally, Skoptzy was quite another subsect, while the most famous Khlyst was Grigorij Rasputin - "lover of a Russian Queen", and also hypnotist and faith healer!) and never worked for church or state establishment (some sects even were pacifistic). So these should be features of different factions/ages (or sectant be heretics but this would be somewhat too powerful for stealthy troops). As for mages - historically Volkhvs and Znakhars were depicted as Nature-oriented.
I may try to make a mod on this theme, but in late age it may become too similar to late-age Avalon, and such duplication isn't much fun...

[Endoperez]

Wrana said:
As for mages - historically Volkhvs and Znakhars were depicted as Nature-oriented.
I may try to make a mod on this theme, but in late age it may become too similar to late-age Avalon, and such duplication isn't much fun...




Kristoffer O said:
The mid age Vanarus will be more nature oriented.


The nation is a slav-inspired nation under the name Bogarus.
The MA predecessor vanarus will appear at a later date.



These are from different posts, and that's all that has been said about it. No idea whether the "van" in the name refers to Vanheim vanir or not.

[Edi]

It does. See the Vyedun and Vyedma units. Their descriptions reference the Vanir.

[Endoperez]

Nice! I hadn't noticed them at all. Are they available anywhere ATM, like magic sites or special poptype? I don't remember seeing them in the Bogarus recruitment queue.

[Edi]

Not available. They're Vanarus units.

[Kuritza]

AFAIK, Simargl was a fire God, who sometimes turned into a winged dog. 'Druzhina' is a word for a Prince's elite host of warriors and bodyguards, it was not exclusive to Vladimir. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif All Princes (Knyaz') had their Druzhinas.

[Kristoffer O]

Bogarus is an anachronism, but so are many other nations. It is composed of national romantic folklore, kievian armies, combined with a touch of later tsar age russia and orthodox (and sectarian) christianity.

It could probably be split, but since there are just three eras in dom3 (this has started to become a gripe for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) i felt that all these parts had to go into LA Bogarus. I would not mind playing a mod in the lines mentioned above.

The folklore part will be more nature oriented in an earlier era, when the land was held by conquering vanir.

[Zeldor]

druzhinas existed before 10th century too, so no problem with that.

[Wrana]

'Druzhina' is a word for a Prince's elite host of warriors and bodyguards, it was not exclusive to Vladimir. All Princes (Knyaz') had their Druzhinas.


Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?
As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To Zeldor:
There was no problem with it existing before - just with it not existing later !

[Gregstrom]

I have to admit that the first time I saw the Simargl in Dom3 I thought of the Simurgh, which is a Persian-area mythical dog-bird.

[Wrana]

To Kristoffer:

It is composed of national romantic folklore, kievian armies, combined with a touch of later tsar age russia and orthodox (and sectarian) christianity.

It could probably be split, but since there are just three eras in dom3 (this has started to become a gripe for me ) i felt that all these parts had to go into LA Bogarus. I would not mind playing a mod in the lines mentioned above.


Thank you! Being somewhat of a fan of 16th century, I may be just a little touchy with this interesting age being mixed with earlier times... And while we were students, one of my friends made a model of Ivan Grozny monarchy in his fantasy world. It was much fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
And sectants are, from my own point of view, surely due to be given their own faction.. Maybe Cossack-based: as you may know, some Cossacks actually were sectants and some even migrated to Turkish empire in 18th century - only to escape to have to serve Tsaritsa and her "heretical" church! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Zeldor]

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The ultimate cavalry.

[Zeldor]

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The ultimate cavalry with fear aura.

[Kuritza]

Wrana said:
Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?


Thats because bylinas are centered aroud several heroes who lived at about the same time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitych and Alesha Popovitch, mostly. But druzhinas arent necessarily assotiated with that particular Knyaz, or any bogatyr at all.
Bogarus gave me impression of being mostly inspired by 12-14th century Russia (with some splash of Christianity, and sects from later time, as K. alredy confessed) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif, so Druzhina cavalry is absolutely not an anachronysm in it.
By the way. Knyaz "Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko" from these Bylinas is actually Vladimir I, around 960-1050, who baptized Russia. So everything makes lots of sense, to think of it.


As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Not much is known about Russian paganism, thats true. Christian clergy did its best to wipe all traces of pagan traditions, and they succeeded. But from what I've read, Simargl could indeed be borrowed from Iran in the ancient times.
Well, as I see it - Rudra was initially a God in India, and later there were many Rudras as his companions. Or, for example, the Beregini. Initially it was a name of one specific Goddess; there was just one Bereginya. Later slavs believed that there are many other Bereginyas as well, protective spirits of the shore. Here's one, by the way - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D 0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0 %B8%D0%BD%D1%8F_01.jpg

So why not having winged dogs named after Simargl, his minions or something - seems quite logical to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S.

And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

> And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!

They established a trading post with the more fully nature oriented finno-ugric nation that was there in the EA, and eventually became the masters of the land. The vanir were never numerous and soon they disappeared altogether, the eventual Bogatyr being the only reminiscent of their glorious (?) past.

[Kuritza]

Ah. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I thought its about Rurik and the Norman theory.
I mean, Rurik's descendants were perceived as Russian princes in every sense of the word, so I thought that vanir wouldnt be treated as some outlandish conquerors as well.

[Kristoffer O]

Trade/conquest. Goes hand in hand in most cases. It is probably a bit Rurikish, but I'm not yet clear on the legacy of the finno-ugric remnants of the population and their role.

[Edi]

Remnant is probably the word you're looking for, Kristoffer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Vanarus seems to me to be as KO said, a nation ruled by Vanir who came and conquered the lands of the Rus or assumed leadership through trade influence. It's what I first thought when I heard the name way back when. That would be a very close historical parallel to the Vikings who sailed east along the rivers and established fairly significant outposts in Russia in the first millennium, around 800-1000 AD.

So EA (or MA, depending) Vanarus would be something like an amalgamation of Vanir, the Rus and Finland circa 1000. When you look at the Vyedun and Vyedma units that are already included (but currently not used) in the game, they are very much like a mage or shaman in the Finnish tradition would be. Finland has historically been a battleground between Sweden and Russia and there has been very much a mixing of influences from both directions here, just that we speak a language which made it very, very difficult to annihilate our pagan beliefs (it did eventually happen, but there is a lot of data available because it disappeared so late).

[Kuritza]

Vyedun and Vyedma are both 100% Russian words. Maybe Finnish too, I dont know. For Vyedun, literally 'Knower', I cant think of an exact analogue, its somethink like 'one who's got arcane knowledge', and Vyedma is 'Witch'. Well, maybe not exactly the type of witch Marignon hunters are looking for, but its an exact translation. Baba Yaga is an archetypical 'Vyedma'.

'Rus led by Vanir' was my first thought when I've read this word on this forum too, of course. Vikings, also called 'varyags' in Russia (supposedly derieved from norse vaeringjar), were indeed a major part of life in Rus as traders, druzhina warriors or boyars (nobility). Surely, Vanir would have an even greater influence.

---

By the way - do Firebirds bring good luck indeed, or is it just a superstition? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I mean, is it worth summoning a few in my cities just to fend of misfortune, or not?

[Endoperez]

Kuritza said:
Vyedun and Vyedma are both 100% Russian words. Maybe Finnish too, I dont know. For Vyedun, literally 'Knower', I cant think of an exact analogue, its somethink like 'one who's got arcane knowledge', and Vyedma is 'Witch'.



Vydeun isn't a Finnish word, but interestingly enough, there's a Finnish word 'tietäjä' that literally translates as "knower", that was used for shamans and witch-doctors and perhaps wise people in general. So it could be that the two words were formed the same way in both languages, or perhaps one is directly translated from the other.

EDIT: Firebirds do have a very small chance of creating a good event.

[Kuritza]

'Remnants of finno-ugric population'? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Afaik, varyags didnt commit no genocide, and slavic population wasnt finno-ugric, although these were present as well. ))
...
Having browsed some sources - yes, it should be classified as conquest. Though Rurik was invited by Novgorod to become a Knyaz/Prince, his son Oleg waged a military campaign, unifying the eastern slavs under his rule.
Its just that nobody now perceives him as an outlander; historians refer to him as of a great Russian prince.

[Wrana]

To Zeldor:

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units The ultimate cavalry with fear aura.


You played WarHammer, too? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yeah, Tsarina Kattarina rulezz! Especially 5th ed. version! But I digress... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif
Actually, Poland was at the time a military power in itself & remained so until 18th century, when their nobility's pride got better of them & their government system turned into a complete anarchy. It probably deserves a separate faction, as well - especially as West Slavs' folklore strongly differed from East ones' (though I am hardly familiar with the former - in fact, I know Caucasus or Finnish one better... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif)
However, Polish hussars actually WERE present in Tsar's army - as mercenaries, along with German reiters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif I may try to make them a capital-only unit to accurately represent them being few in numbers...

[Wrana]

To Kuritza:

Thats because bylinas are centered aroud several heroes who lived at about the same time Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitych and Alesha Popovitch, mostly. But druzhinas arent necessarily assotiated with that particular Knyaz, or any bogatyr at all.



Well, you are just wrong: Ilya Murometz (probably Murmanin, or Morovlenin - such versions were also used) may be a combination figure (he is also noted in German tale originating at about 11th century; some Jew enthusiasts even say that he was a Jew & his surname is actually Morovlenin, meaning "wall-builder" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif), but if bylinas' hero is based on actual man - than he is most probably Ilya 'Chobotok' ("The Boot" - for fighting the steppe invaders with such a weapon!)) Pechersky, living at 12th century, buried at Kiev monks' ossiary and later declared a saint by an Orthodox Church;
Dobrynya Nikitich is most probably based on Vladimir's uncle - however, there are 7 warriors of the same name in annals...;
Alexander 'Alesha' Popovitch, afair, also lived at 12th century & became famous for declaring that it's wrong for Russian warriors to fight each other serving local knyaz & far better for all to fight common enemies serving Veliky Knyaz of Kiev (who was at the time formally considered a head of state - though most times he didn't even bother to try to order local knyaz...);
Bogatyr Zhydovin ("The Jew") is probably based on Khazar Kaganate's warriors - & so his prototypes may be placed at 9th-10th century - or else this figure appeared in bylinas much later, probably in 15th-17th century;
Volga / Volkh Vseslavich - the only one of bylinas' figure who can be considered a "mage" - may be based on Knyaz Oleg (Helgi) Veschij ("The Wise") - who was regent before Vladimir's father;
et cetera, ad nauseam - there are, as I've heard, even bylinas about Ermak Timofeevich - a completely historical figure who conquered Siberia at 16th century... So bylinas, as is the case with other legends, place together heroes and situations from different times and places & often use combination figures/situations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

...By the way. Knyaz "Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko" from these Bylinas is actually Vladimir I, around 960-1050, who baptized Russia.


By the way, would you be so kind as to give me title or link to any SCIENTIFIC work which states so. I've certainly seen it enough in popular books which so love simplify everything.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Not much is known about Russian paganism, thats true. Christian clergy did its best to wipe all traces of pagan traditions, and they succeeded.


Please, spare me Neopaganistic slogans. There are much simpler reasons: the Slavic people, unfortunately, had no written culture until appearance of Christian missionaries - and those were simply not interested in writing down things they considered to be just a bastardization of Hellenic paganism (while pagans did not want to learn anything from Greek monks). The truly common written culture formed in Novgorod only well after Christianization. While Ancient Greeks, as well as Scandinavians, had written culture during their heroic age, and Arabs hail from the region where written culture was relatively common even before their advent... See, no need to make "Public Enemies #1" of Christians and form a historical OGPU to fight them... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
As for Simargl - I have noted this earlier, while the version of one figure becoming many, while popular afaik among modern occultists, and probably true in cases of Indian mythology, was not proved to actually occur in mythology of other peoples. I even suspect that true situation was often the other way around... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!


Well, firstly, I've seen it before in some flavor text here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Also about Rurik - he was certainly invited to try to make order in Novgorod melting-pot... from Staray Ladoga, which, for those who didn't know, is also deep inside Slavic lands (or Finnish - as population here was mixed). While appearance of above-mentioned Oleg in Kiev, as you'd already noted, certainly had all properties of military conquest... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
To All on Vyedmas, etc.:
I think that etymology from a word meaning "to know" is actually quite common - even in English, "wizard" has common root with "wise". While "magic" is derived from title of Zoroastrian priests and wise-men... However, Finns were actually considered to be mighty sorcerers - certainly by their Scandinavian neighbors, & probably by medieval Rus as well - at least in Pushkin's fantasy poem "Ruslan and Ludmila" which was written in 19th century, sorcerer characters are either Finns, or of Arabo-Persian origin... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And also actual traditions in this respect could be very close for Finns and East Slavs - especially as they lived close to each other for some hundreds of years.

[Kuritza]

Wrana said:
To Kuritza:

Well, you are just wrong: Ilya Murometz (probably Murmanin, or Morovlenin - such versions were also used)


There's no reason to believe Jew enthusiasts or these trying to alter an existing second name, which is Muromets, meaning (as you know) 'from Murom'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Occam's razor principle.
Of course he's a combination hero, but mostly he's based on one particular man, Ilya Chobotok, who was born in Murom as well.
And of course, I am well aware that their prototypes didnt meet. Just as the Thre Musketeers, btw. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But in bylinas, they did - and I was speaking about cultural references Bugarus is probably based upon.


By the way, would you be so kind as to give me title or link to any SCIENTIFIC work which states so. I've certainly seen it enough in popular books which so love simplify everything.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif


Again, I was speaking about the 'mythical space', where all the popular heroes lived during one 'Age of Heroes' (also check the name of LA Bogarus theme). I know that there's absolutely no proof that Vladimir I is 'Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko'. Between you and me, I also find it very funny that Vladimir I was sanctified, seeing how he committed every known crime during his coming to power.


Please, spare me Neopaganistic slogans. There are much simpler reasons: the Slavic people, unfortunately, had no written culture until appearance of Christian missionaries - and those were simply not interested in writing down things they considered to be just a bastardization of Hellenic paganism


Spare me your suspicions as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm absolutely indifferent towards both Orthodox and Neo-pagans. While what you say is true, Church did oppose Paganism in Russia, and quite actively. Why do you think there are no statues in Orthodox churches? Out of fear that these might be assotiated with idols. Etc, etc - while Christianity was surely embraced quite freely, it had to rival Paganism, and rivalry was fierce.

[Wrana]

There's no reason to believe Jew enthusiasts or these trying to alter an existing second name, which is Muromets, meaning (as you know) 'from Murom'. Occam's razor principle.


Well, he was somewhat drunk at the time, and also a building engineer by profession... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It just illustrates how much we actually know.

But in bylinas, they did - and I was speaking about cultural references Bugarus is probably based upon.


Well, in this case, sorry. But you didn't specify this clearly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
Also, I would better like "Age of Heroes" as Vanarus - i.e., Medium Era. While in later period I'd prefer (relatively) disciplined Tsar's army, with Strelets & Oprichniks (by the way, the latter are almost only possible candidates for national non-summoned sacred troops!:) )
As for Vladimir (and he shouldn't be used with numerable, being a Kiev Knyaz - the numbers began only from Moscow dynasty - as Tsar Alexander 1st's case clearly illustrates, Alexander Nevsky's being a Veliky Knyaz and father of the founder of the Moscow line) - well, Constantine the Great of Byzantium was hardly better, but also "equal to apostles"

I'm absolutely indifferent towards both Orthodox and Neo-pagans. While what you say is true, Church did oppose Paganism in Russia, and quite actively. Why do you think there are no statues in Orthodox churches? Out of fear that these might be assotiated with idols.


Glad to hear - the latter can be found in quite surprising places! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Yes, I know that there was afierce struggle between Orthodox Christianity and paganism - it just doesn't explain most facts. AS for statues - I'd sooner think that a fact that there ARE ones in Catholic temples could be more close to a real reason... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Wrana]

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=594064&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=#Post594064