Acouchi - MA game for new players (full)

[llamabeast]

Right, I haven't made a new newbie game for ages, and have had lots of requests, so I thought I'd organise one. This game is for genuinely new players (0-2 games of MP), although any amount of SP experience is fine (the skills are fairly different).

This will be an MA game and will use the Worthy Heroes mod. Renaming will be on, graphs will be on, and everything else will be standard. The map will probably be Cradle of Dominion if we can get enough players (~15), or my version of Parganos (a little fairer than the vanilla version) if we get 8 or so players. If the number's in between we'll improvise.

I already got PMs from quite a few new players so they will be reserved spots straight away:

Ermor - Saxon
R'lyeh - meister_miagi
Bandar Log - Omnirizon
Vanheim - Stout
Arcoscephale - Hoplosternum
Ulm - Heinrich
Abysia - klagrok
C'tis - Aapeli
Caelum - Borum
Pythium - Ylvali
T'ien Ch'i - JZ
Man - Ray
Agartha - Darkstone
Machaka - Karlem
Oceania - rasko
Eriu - sansanjuan

Please sign up, and make sure to pick a race!

(Incidentally, I try to name all my games after South American mammals, for reasons obscured by the mists of time (I think it has to do with my username) - an acouchi is apparently a South American rodent. It's quite cute.)

[Omnirizon]

I think I would like to try Bandar Log

[Stout]

Great, what's MA?

I downloaded the mod from 11-1-2007. Is that the new one?

Are any of the races hopeless in MP?

[Omnirizon]

MA = Middle Age

ideally, all of the races are in a roughly equal range. I don't know too much, but from what I gather reading this board Pythium is considered on the stronger end of the range, while Ulm is on the weaker end; at least for MA.

To me, the advanced civilization historically based races like Pythium (Rome/Byzantine) and Tien Chi (Warring States Period China) are more complex to play. I think their advanced historically inspired base gave the designers a lot of material to draw upon when designing these nations.

On the other hand, clearly fantasy, historical-fantasy fusion, or non-civilized history based races are thematically simpler, and in turn more straightforward to play and design strategy for. Fantasy theme simply can't match real history for inspiring material, no matter how creative the fantasy, and designers didn't have as much to draw upon when designing these nations.

examples:
Ulm: Visigoths?, non-advanced historical
Bandar Log: India, fantasy-history fusion
Abysia: N/A, fantasy only.
Pythium: Rome/Byzantine, advanced historical

I think you will find the first three are simpler to play. Some people might contend that the complex races are stronger, but only in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. A simpler race is going to be better for a new player.

I would then advise that you pick one of the fantasy, fantasy-history fusion, or non-advanced historical races to play; if your a newbie. These races feel simpler and more straightforward to play; and it is easier for new players to get more out of them as compared to the complex historically based nations.

Well, that's been my impression of nations in this game, and is my two-cents.

[klagrok]

Hey if you are still recruiting Ill take Abysia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Stout]

I'll take Vanheim then.

[Heinrich]

Thanks very much for this game!

I'll go for Ulm.

[Aapeli]

Been in four mp games already (one of them still running). Didnt do well on any of them tough /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif. I´ll take Citis.

[Borum]

Thanks for hosting the game. I would love to take Jotunheim. My experience only 3 weeks of SP, so truly a newbie.

[meister_miagi]

I'd like to try R'lyeh.

[Ylvali]

I´m in. Pythium.

[Hoplosternum]

Thanks for saving me a place http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif As Pythium is gone I'll try Arcoscephale please.

[JZ]

My take is TienChi then.
In two MP games right now and no completed MP games.

[Ray]

I am in my first MP game and getting crushed. Would like to try again. I would like Man if it is available.

[Darkstone]

First Post, First MP game.

Agartha, Please.

[llamabeast]

Great! Okay, I'd ideally like a couple more players, one of which really needs to be a water nation.

[rasko]

I'd like to join with Oceania.

[Elswamio]

In another game, but it's going slow enough that I'd like to get in this one. Ermor sounds fun.

[llamabeast]

Okay great, and at that I'll close the game since I think we have enough players.

I'll set it up so you can send in your pretenders this evening (and post instructions on how to do so). I'll actually start the game on Wednesday night (UK time), so pretenders will need to be in by then.

[Borum]

Just realized Jotunheim is very different from their EA cousins... Could I change my nation to Caelum please? Thanks.

[Elswamio]

I'd like to change to marignon actually if I can. I've done enough death magic lately.

[sansanjuan]

I'll try Eriu. First MP game. I apologize in advance...
-SSJ

Edit: Dang... missed the bell. Could you ping me next novice game you start?

[Ylvali]

Where do we send our pretenders, and what is the server?

[Heinrich]

All the answers are in the Llamaserver Faq: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531116

[Saxon]

Hi. Thanks for waiting. Give me three hours, I will post a nation.

[Saxon]

Ermor suits my mood

[llamabeast]

sansanjuan - I would squeeze you in but we already have 16 players which is quite high for Cradle (which I think is the map we'll use, will confirm shortly). I'll try to remember to PM you next time. You should feel free to join non-newbie games though, people are normally welcoming of players of any skill level.

Right, apologies, I lied about setting up the server last night (so if any of you have sent in your pretenders and they've bounced, that's why). However I've set it up now. To submit your pretender:

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'Acouchi' in the subject line of your e-mail

You can see who's submitted so far at www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) (this website will be useful throughout the game).

[Elswamio]

Sansanjuan can take my spot. I'll catch the next one.

[sansanjuan]

Tnx El!

[Zeldor]

Elswamio:

You can try mine with CBM 1.2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkstone]

Hm. I sent a pretender file for Agartha, but I never received a confirmation email, nor does the llamaserver list it as received. I'm pretty confident the email was sent, because I can see it under sent (and everything seems to be spelled correctly), and I emailed a friend to confirm that mail is being sent out from the address.

I notice this is a rare issue under the llamaserver FAQ.

Anyway, is there anything I should do to sort this out?

[llamabeast]

I would just try again. It doesn't matter if it receives the same file twice. If you get no response within ten minutes or so, just send the pretender directly to me, at llamabeast[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net. I expect trying again will solve the issue though - sometimes the internet seems to throw away e-mails.

[Darkstone]

Alright. Thanks for the quick response.

[llamabeast]

Okay, we are just waiting for Oceania/rasko now.

[rasko]

Pretender sent.

[Ylvali]

Seems like we are ready to start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[sansanjuan]

Thanks for hosting us Llamabeast!

[klagrok]

hey llama think you need to be poked again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif looks like all 16 peeps sent pretenders--been that way a good 16 hrs or so.

[llamabeast]

Okay sorry for the delays guys, the game is now started!

The first turn has 48 hours on the clock in case of problems, subsequent turns will have 24 hours. If everyone gets their turn in early the hosting will happen as soon as all the turns are in, with the effect that the hosting time tends to gradually creep earlier every day. This is a good thing since it means you occasionally get two turns in a single day.

The "First turn" e-mail should contain sufficient instructions for you to play, but if you're not sure check my FAQ or post here. Basically you just reply to the turn e-mails with your 2h file attached, you don't have to write anything in the subject line or anything.

Omnirizon has very kindly volunteered to be the admin for the game, so if anyone needs an extension or anything, he's the one who'll sort it out (post the request here though so that everyone knows what's going on). Should he get knocked out of the game I would greatly appreciate it if someone else would volunteer to take over for him.

Okay, I hope you all enjoy the game!

[llamabeast]

Apologies, the first e-mail was a false start (forgot the Worthy Heroes mod). Please use the second one.

[Karlem]

Hi all!!

It seems that Pythium is doing some bizarre things and that the system says that he is cheating (OMG!! XD), what have you done? I hope this tweaking down of the pretender power has not hurt you too much.

So, are we going for some fast first turns? I think that right now decissions are so short and diplomacy so fast (hi, I cannot see you, I am a friend, arghhh, please not again argggg....... rip) that we should run them faster than 48 hours. Lets see if everybody sends it today.

[llamabeast]

What? Oh dear. We will probably have to restart again then, Pythium is likely to be crippled if he's been got by the anti-cheating thing.

Do you have any ideas Ylvali? The most likely cause is that you had Conceptual Balance or something running when you were designing your god.

[Hoplosternum]

Does this mean there is no point us sending back the turns? Or can you just recreate Pythium?

[Ylvali]

Sorry, I don´t know whats wrong. Maybe I forgot to turn CB... Off? On? I thought we were using it? Aren´t we?

I´ll redo and send my pretender in once more then....

[Ylvali]

Really sorry everyone. It seems I forgot to turn off CB when making my pretender. I have now sent in a new pretender.

Ironically they are exactly the same, I cannot see that CB changes anything in that chassis, maybe something very small like one point of mr or something like that.

Ok hope it all gets sorted now.

[Ylvali]

I got the following reply:


I received a pretender file from you for the game 'Acouchi'.
Unfortunately it looks like that game's already started. Sorry!



How do we solve this then?

[sansanjuan]

Llamabeast,
Got a message "you have cheated" when starting 1st turn. I thought I didn't need that mod to create my Pretender only to play... What do I do and can I find how my Pretender was changed?
-SSJ

[Ylvali]

@sansanjuan: You mean WH must be enabled when making the god?

According to the faq it should not matter since it doesn´t affect pretender design...

Looks like we need a restart...

[llamabeast]

Okay guys - third time lucky!

I retrieved Ylvali's fixed 2h file from the LlamaServer backups (the problem was indeed presumably that you previously made your pretender while running CB) and restarted the game using that.

SSJ - You misread the message, it said that Pythium had cheated. You were fine.

Ylvali - Your animated thingy is cool but inordinately distracting. It's a bit much I think.

Everyone - brilliant, we're off again! Please replay your first turns with the new turn file you'll just have received. Apologies to those who'll be playing it for the third time.

[Ylvali]

Thanks Llamabeast, sorry ´bout the inconvenience.

You might be right about my sig, I made it for another fora and it was appropriate there, but here it might be a bit too much. I´ll replace or remove it.

[sansanjuan]

Doh! Thanks for pointing me straight.
-SSJ

[Omnirizon]

seems the server is down. i'm not getting a conformation when i send in my turn.

same thing on the other game i'm involved in.

anybody else have this problem?

EDIT: other threads using llamaserver confirm, it is down.

[Karlem]

I just noticed the crowns on some provinces. Reading a little I found that those are Victory Points. Does that means that we are playing an VP game? How many VPs are needed to win?

[llamabeast]

Yeah, server was down. I have to turn it off to start new games. When I did the final restart last night I was knackered, and forgot to restart it. D'oh!

Anyway, fixed.

The crowns are VPs but we're not playing a VP point game, so they don't bring you victory. They do have some value though: each one produces one candle a turn for its owner.

[vfb]

I don't know who started that rumor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Isn't a VP the equivalent of a dom-strength 5 temple? That's not always a candle a turn.

[llamabeast]

I thought it was the equivalent of a dom-10 temple.

[vfb]

If you click on a temple of yours, you'll see something like:

God 0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif
Prophet 10
Home Province 10
Temples 30
Victory Points 5

Depends on how many Temples and Victory Points you have of course. I'm sure a while back I heard VP's were a dom-strength 5 temple, but I lost the thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[klagrok]

Not a thread(well probably is)--in 'da rules' pg 93. Am I the only maroon who actually purchased this game?(no wait actually 'hinted' it with website address for x-mas gift from the wife http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) Anyway it spreads as if you had Max Dom of 5. But according to rules ONLY if 'victory points' special victory condition is selected at game set-up. As Im new to this game, havent really paid attention when Ive played against the computer.

[vfb]

The manual needs some updating. It's wrong on this for sure. If you see a crown on the map, it's spreading dominion. The only question is how much.

[Omnirizon]

someone needs to poke Ermor, they're taking over 24 hours to do turn 1.

[klagrok]

vfb seems you are right on that one---2006 for copywrite!! It does say doesnt matter how many VPs same spread but guess the peeps who've played this for years would have a better idea of how much. Either way, appears they are free temples for dominion so assuming we'll be fighting over them. Sure hope my blood sacrifices work!!!!

[Saxon]

There are reasons that newbies get 48 hours on the first turn, we need to learn a few things about the system!

[Heinrich]

"The first turn has 48 hours on the clock in case of problems, subsequent turns will have 24 hours."

"Next turn due: 00:16 GMT on Sunday February 10th"

The deadline isn't passed so it's a bit early to poke anyone.

[Omnirizon]

Saxon said:
There are reasons that newbies get 48 hours on the first turn, we need to learn a few things about the system!



I wanted to make sure you knew the game was running and you were involved. I can understand if you are experiencing real life or technical issues.

the quickhost is scheduled in 6 hours though.

[Ylvali]

Sure is easy to grow impatient... I´ll take the opportunity to make a little presentation of my pretender.

He is a freely interpreted reincarnation of Nero (this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero)

After the trachery of the senate. Nero, seeing his very closest men turn their backs to him, committed suicide cursing his betrayers. So vast was his anger, and so powerful the curse, that his soul would not disperse and fade but stayed to witness the lives of those he hated. And the slow fall of the great empire he had once ruled (Rome/Ermor).

The decades passed, and when Pythium broke free parts of the old imperial archives were brought along to the new land, including Neros screenplays and poetry.

Short after the Pantokrators disappearence in the middle age Claudia, a young historican decided to dig through the old archives and finds Neros manuscripts. She is moved by his poetry and grand visions and allows herself to daydream herself as Claudia Octavia, Neros stepsister and wife.

Neros deranged and tormented soul confuses her with his long since murdered wife and enters Claudias dreams to proclaim his love.

Their meeting is powerful and devastating. When Nero realizes she is not his beloved wife he enters a state of madness and rage. He reaches into claudias body and exchanges her life force for his own and is born anew into the physical world.

Having mastered death, Neros arrogance and twisted genius grows beyond human proportions. He now seeks godhood to revive his murdered family and reunite the broken empire.

[Omnirizon]

nice backstory. I've never managed to create something so creative for my pretenders. I am usually more concerned with making the scales match with the theme of the nation.

I always try and picture the respective society, how it would work, and how the scales should reflect this. I guess that comes from being a sociologist. It even kind of bothers me sometimes when it comes to min/maxing, and I tweak scales for points and efficiency. I put them at a value that doesn't feel thematically correct; but is gameplay-wise technically better.

[Heinrich]

Here is the story of Heinrich Kruger, Prince of Metals:

As an alchemist, Heinrich dedicated his life to the study of the transmutation of common metals into gold.

To reach his goal he invested much effort on the search for the Philosopher's Stone, a legendary substance that was believed to be an essential ingredient for the transmutation. The Philosopher's Stone was believed to mystically amplify the user's knowledge of alchemy so much that anything was attainable.

After a whole life of research he managed to acomplish The Great Work once. The result was the creation of a "panacea" or "elixir of life", a remedy that cure all diseases and prolong life indefinitely.

Now that he has mastered his own mortality he seeks godhood to realise the Universal Panacea evolution from an imperfect, diseased, corruptible and ephemeral state towards a perfect, healthy, incorruptible and everlasting state.

[sansanjuan]

You folks are way more creative than me. I enjoyed reading your back-stories.

My Crone's name is "Fred" so I'll just leave it at that...

Sheepishly,
SSJ

PS Perhaps Fred's story will reveal itself as I play. Stay tuned.

[Aapeli]

All I can tell you about my pretender is that I somehow managed to name him quite stupidly...

I also just noticed that I completely forgot what he was like...

[Omnirizon]

somebody staled again...

I wasn't paying enough attention to see who exactly it was, but if it was Ermor, that would make twice in a row. I suggest we consider turning that nation over to computer controlled.

With your consent of coursse, Saxon. If you are willing and able to play, I see no reason you can't. But IF it was you who staled again, it seems your not able to play.

comments?

[llamabeast]

If you go to "admin options", and "show staling data", you can see who's staled. This doesn't need a password, incidentally.

[Ylvali]

Ermor staled both times it seems. But we should give Saxon a chance to respond. I´ll send him a PM too.

[Saxon]

Two things for sure in life, death in taxes. I know you are taxing your people and Death will arrive soon!

More seriously, I am having techincal problems. I downloaded Wirthy Heroes and it turned out to be Burning heros, not 1.8. Then I got a virus. Then my wife had her birthday, which suggested that I focus on something else than the computer. I have internet access at work, but not at home, which complicates things.

If I can not get this sorted out tonight, switching to AI makes sense, but let me see if I can fix it first.

Also, no one should accept any excuse on my part for losing based on missing the first turns! Own goals still count...

[Omnirizon]

life before game.

let us know.

[llamabeast]

Being as it sounds like Saxon is on the case, I'd recommend postponing hosting if he looks like staling again. It'd be a shame to go out of a game right at the beginning because of technical issues.

[Heinrich]

I agree, that's a newbie game after all. We all need ot learn. There is no interest if someone can't even have a try.

By the way, here is the Worthy Heroes mod. In case you didn't find it.

[Omnirizon]

quickhost for the next turn delayed an extra 12 hours then.

If anyone needs more than that, please post in the thread.

[Ylvali]

I´m also in favor of postponing this turn if it helps Saxon out, now that we know he wants to stay in.

Besides, reuniting the ermorian empire is one of Neros primary goals, I would hate trying to roleplay that against the computer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Omnirizon]

looks like Saxon is up and running. good to have you sir!

you are, unfortunately, two turns behind everyone. It is certainly a setback, but you were still accruing income.

[Saxon]

Thank you all for the consideration. Looking at the graphs, I can see you were not lazing around those first two turns, but that is fine. The living can run around all they want, but they will lie dead for far longer when Ermor rules…

More seriously, while I appreciated the offer of the delay, I would suggest that we do not hold off turns. With the large number of us, someone will always have a real life problem that will delay them. Perhaps later in the game, when we are down to just a few key players, but early on we need to keep the momentum of the game going.

I played a couple of games of Space Empires IV in the past and all of them fell apart when people got tired of waiting days for delayed turns. It was disappointing for everyone, but the fun went out of it. While it is no fun to miss your turn, at least the larger game continues.

I write this knowing that I will be one of the people challenged to meet all his turns. I give you my commitment to do my very best to play 100% of the time, but fear that I will miss one or two turns. If you see Kenya in the news again, please send good thoughts my way, but do not stop the game. I do not think that I, or any of us, should hold back the rest because we will miss a turn or two.

Anyway, that is just my opinion, but it is based on experience in other multiplayer games. This is my first MP in Dom, so perhaps things are different here, but I suspect the underlying structure is the same.

[Heinrich]

"A great evil is sleeping"

We could see that as your roleplaying way to play the decadent and corrupt empire of ermor: too busy dealing with internal treasons and infamous curse.

Or is it the secret goal of The Unhappy One to let us think he is inoffensive?
Remember: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

We must be ready to face evil!

[sansanjuan]

Excellent post by Sheap on MP code of conduct. As our nations meet (and turn each other to meat) one will begin to appreciate his points...
-SSJ


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=511258

Sheap's MP code of conduct (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=511258)

[Saxon]

Death is not evil, it is part of Nature, perhaps the most powerful part. It is not offensive, any more than the wind or rain is offensive. There is no corruption, it is just the continuing cycle of the world. This is visible for all to see, there is no hidden agenda.

It is men who seek to distort the world by bending and bashing it into hard metallic shapes that violate the natural order. It is those that heat and burn things to create unnatural and corrupt items who are evil. The smoke of their forges are like a blanket, hiding their twisted ideas, dreams and ambitions. We must be ready to blow the smoke away and cleanse our world of these evils.

[Heinrich]

Alchemy is the daughter of Science.

The only ambition of Alchemy is to help humanity, to switch an imperfect, diseased, corruptible and ephemeral state towards a perfect, healthy, incorruptible and everlasting state.

The only ambition of Science is to bring knowlegde to mankind, to fight obscurantism and superstitions.

The essential element in the black art of obscurantism is not that it wants to darken individual understanding but that it wants to blacken our picture of the world, and darken our idea of existence.

Do not listen to those false prophets!

Those who pretend to godhood while they are only usurpers.
Those who pretend to defend nature while they only seek to break the natural cycle of life and death.
Those who seek to disturb the fallen men, to enslave their souls, to control their corrupted bodies and rotting flesh in order to satisfy their secret desire to rule the world.

Those ones are truly evil, we cannot let those false gods plunge mankind into obscurantism and darkness as that's the complete opposite of Science.

[Ylvali]

Hear the dryness of dust-covered scientists! How little do they understand of divine essense! The key to godhood is not ambition, but faith! The key to faith is not facts, but vision!

Knoweth thee not this?:

The unreal is more powerful than the real, because nothing is as perfect as you can imagine it. because its only intangible ideas, concepts, beliefs, fantasies that last. stone crumbles. wood rots. people, well, they die. but things as fragile as a thought, a dream, a legend, they can go on and on.

I am Nero! Vision, legend. Naught but superstition in the eyes of science. Will you defeat me alchemist, by proving I do not exist when lying under my divine heel?

[Omnirizon]

It is the eternal and divine fire within that is the true driver of this world.

Within you all, the divine fire of passion, conflict, and contradiction burns; pushing you ever forward, always inspiring you to action. Scientist and god alike, both moved and driven by their internal fire. Fire is the most divine and basic essence. Fire will rule all.

[Borum]

Guys, I have to back out from my nation Caelum. Just got the call to go on a business roadshow in Africa, so would not be able to log on for 2 weeks. Best I go into admin, rather than slow the game down. Good luck to everyone else!

[Heinrich]

Nero, it seems you have lost reason.

Recently, a messenger of mine told me about the atrocities commited, in your name, in Pythium. What's happening?

Where is the enlighted ruler the books deal with?

By the way, aren't you supposed to be dead?

[Hoplosternum]

Curse this wretched scale bug / feature http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And ludicriously powerful independents http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And other players starting within two of my capital and venturing forth from their watery lairs far too early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My last place position is just to lull you all in to a false sense of security http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Long live my elephant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I mean elephants, lots and lots of them. Of course. Oh yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ylvali]

Oh, dear Heinrich! I am so sorry for such lies to reach your ears!

Germanicus, the former head of senate is jealous of my righteous claims and shamelessly spreads his awful rumors.

Does he not see how he hurts me? How sensitive I am?

I do trust your enlightened self to see through the smoke, to se that I wish nothing but the best for my people.

Supposed to be dead? Ah, but yes of course I am. Dead as a rock, dead as a clock. But i could not stay dead when my people suffers the corruption of unjust rulership in Pythium and unholy decay in Ermor. Could not rest when my poetry might be forgotten.

And on the subject of fire and passion: Might I be so bold as to say "Been there, done that"

[Ylvali]

Regarding Borum, Can´t we find a sub for him?

[Omnirizon]

I suppose. If that nation is set to AI, can it be given back over to player control in the event that a sub is found?

[Saxon]

As I say, Death is nothing to be feared. Nero is dead, but happy. I am dead and happy. It is the living who are unhappy.

As for the chauvanisim of the human race, I must implore Ulm to remember that this material plane is shared with many species, not just humans. To be so focused on one race may be seen as evil. All are united in death, it is a much more equitable system than the humancentric views of the smoking forges.

[Heinrich]

I am quite happy as well of being alive for 323 years now and I intend to keep on that way as long as possible.

Besides, I fear the horrible smell of rotting flesh wouldn't sit well with my taste. Do not insist, i'm sure.

[Aapeli]

There seems to be lots of anger between the nations of Ulm and Ermor. From the lizards point of wiew the nasty stench of the forges covers the sweet smell of the bog. There fore it seems that I must get rid of this nasty next door nation of mine as they happened to declare a war on me. You said you offered peace Heinric? I didnt receive an offer (probably my mistake as I made my first turns quite carelessly).
There seems to be a lots and lots of nations in this game and very little room for my little snakes to play.
Oh yes by the way it seems that players tend to deal diplomacy with pms rather than with ingame messages as its faster and more convinient.

[Darkstone]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif
Wow, Vanheim is dead. I figured the skinshifters would be a deadly foe.

Did someone attack him so early? Or is it a matter of self-domkill?

[Stout]

Why did I log in to find all my stuff gone without any battles?

[llamabeast]

Sounds like dominion kill to me.

[Stout]

So you can just boom kill a nation at a distance on turn 7 like that? What fun. How well balanced.

[Darkstone]

Actually, this wasn't caused by someone else.

You should read section (VII - Dominion) of your manual. The part of how you died should be made clear in the last part of that section.

So to prevent that sort of thing, either take a strong dominion (7+), prioritize building temples, or start preaching with your prophet early on. Or if you're a blood nation, you can also start sacrificing blood slaves in your temples.

[llamabeast]

Stout: No of course not. It just means you ran out of candles. I'd be very surprised if it was due to anyone deliberately trying to extinguish you. However, the underlying point of the game is to maintain and spread your dominion. If you don't notice that your dominion is fizzling out and start preaching etc then you can lose the game. It does seem very harsh, but you have to remember that the whole point of the armies and magic are to give you the power to expand your dominion.

Even experienced players occasionally lose the game by not noticing that their candles are diminishing though.

Edit: Oh, Darkstone beat me to it, and very did so with great clarity too.

[Heinrich]

Sorry aapeli, I offered you peace when we first met in the mountains. As you didn't answered my first message I supposed you weren't interested.

[Omnirizon]

that is harsh Stout. ouch!!!

this brings up an interesting point. Is there now an indie province with a fortress?

and it is a benefit for a neighbor of stout, someone gets a ~30k population province pretty easy. What a boost!!!

[Darkstone]

Stout, I hope you won't be discouraged.
There seem to be plenty of new games starting every month, and I'm sure if asked llamabeast can PM you when he starts a new game.

Omnirizon, yes, it's an unbalancing factor certainly, but there is plenty of luck involved in the game as is (where you start, what magic sites you find, MR rolls, etc.) I like to think of playing this game as 'controlled chaos'.

Anyway, that reminds me of something, and I hope nobody finds the following joke in poor taste, and if anyone is offended, I apologize.

Fortress (1000 gold) - (not bad)
30k province (300 gold income a turn) - (quite good)
Double gem income - (even better)
...
Expanding unmolested - priceless

[Aapeli]

No I dont mind dont worry. Its actually quite interesting to play in such a small area (I have now three neighbours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif).

[Saxon]

Stout,

One thing I recently figured out is that high dominion on your pretender gives the awe effect. This can be a nice addition to a fighting pretender and also increases your dominion power generally. This helps to prevent the dominion kill that you suffered.

While I don’t think anyone was aiming at you, I don’t doubt they designed their pretenders with the possibility in mind. If you go back to your last turn and check out the graphs, you will see some nations have a lot of dominion and others don’t. At this stage of the game, that is largely about pretender design. People have not had time to build many temples or sacrifice too many slaves. If you had died from this at turn 50, they might have done it deliberately to you. At turn 7, they just got lucky.

If you check Ermor, one of the purple lines, you will see that I have a lot of dominion, even though I missed my first two turns. The spread is automatic and can be powerful. In my case, I mixed up late age ermor with middle age ermor and the dominion is not going to be as useful as I thought, but I should be safe from dominion kill. The others are going to have to get me some other way… I have no doubt they will try. A friendly newbie game does not imply friendly tactics!

As the others have said, this is a deep game with a lot of factors in play. I recommend a few games of single player to start out with, as MP is highly competitive and harder. This is my first MP game and what I see in the graphs and hall of fame compared to my SP games is remarkable. Folks really know how to play and make the AI look silly.

[Karlem]

I do not understand the llamabeast system, right now it is waiting for Caelum (that should be AI, isn't it?) and Vanheim (that seems to be vanquished). How does this work?

[llamabeast]

It's because Caelum has not been set to AI yet (though he will be shortly), and also because somewhat bizarrely once a player's defeated they have to take another turn, even though they can't do anything. Presumably Vanheim will stale, and then next turn he won't be on the list.

[Karlem]

Thanks!
So that means that after Caelum is set to AI or a sub is found we will have to wait still 18:00 until the system runs it or can it be set to run at that moment? Everytime a new naton is vanquished this happens isn't it?
BTW this llamaserver is incredible, specially the quickhost feature is quite interesting as the turns are flying quite fast.

[llamabeast]

So that means that after Caelum is set to AI or a sub is found we will have to wait still 18:00 until the system runs it or can it be set to run at that moment? Everytime a new naton is vanquished this happens isn't it?



Yeah, although the admin can always intervene if he wants by forcing hosting (to do that you just postpone the hosting by a negative amount of time to bring the hosting time forward Omnirizon). In this case, being as I'm sitting here, I'll do it.

[Ylvali]

Saxon said:
As I say, Death is nothing to be feared. Nero is dead, but happy. I am dead and happy. It is the living who are unhappy.

As for the chauvanisim of the human race, I must implore Ulm to remember that this material plane is shared with many species, not just humans. To be so focused on one race may be seen as evil. All are united in death, it is a much more equitable system than the humancentric views of the smoking forges.



Dead? I am not dead, nor am I happy. For the harp lies idle by my feet when I see what you do to my former empire. You praise death as natural, as unity, as if it was death you gave. But you are sorly mistaken.

I cannot stay silent by the sound of such hypocrisy. There cannot be death without life, nor can there be life without death. But you, you want to take them both away and give nothing back. You steal from the people their precious death, their final sleep. Oh, how much worse than taking lives!

Your realm is neither life nor death, but emptyness and dust. And by this dull and witless path you wish to lead my people?

I, who was dead and reborn by the power of love. Not undead, mind you, but reborn! I see the mutual dependance of life and death and cherish it, sing my praise to it! As all the good things in this world are born of this duality.

You speak of human egocentricity. May I ask you then: Do the birds sing happily in your lands? Do the trees grow strong and green in your forests?

Nero

[klagrok]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif Just noticed one of the water provinces (Black Water) has barbarians in it......wonder if I can recruit them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[Omnirizon]

LOL. barbarians in water? how unusual.

[Darkstone]

It's probably a terrain mistake on the map. Is that the one in the northwest corner? I thought that was fixed.

[Ylvali]

No it isn´t that one, but that is one ain´t fixed either.

I just took it, it was full of tribal horsemen.

[JZ]

Tien-chi resents Ulmish aggression killing innocent Empire citizens and demands satisfactory punishment of those responsible for slaughter. If not, imperial raiding force will do justice that our citizens are eager for!

[Heinrich]

Satisfactory punishment you say? I am glad you asked for it.

Well, hopefully we have just captured the fearsome general Dong-yue Da-di, prophet of Golden Eye, god of Tien-Chi.

This man, known for his legendary cruelty was fleeing from a raid on our farms that went bad when our patrolling forces came up.

He was then brought to the Black Keep of Ulm to allow our experimented torturers to learn the truth.

He admitted he has received orders to raid and pillage Ulmic provinces.

He confessed the slaughter of many innocent peasants as he and his men burnt their houses, raped their wives, mutilated their children and took their gold.

He even forced enlistment of some young barbarians who were obliged to charge in front of his raiders in order to distract our archers, threatened by his own archers.

In the end, he recognised to worship a false god in heretic black sabbath and awful blood baths.

Finally he was condemned for his deeds and received the satisfactory punishment you asked.

This morning, he publicly repented his awful crimes and asked for mercy. He was then beheaded and quartered in front of a crowd of spectators in the courtyard of the Black Keep.

I regret you weren't there to attend to this rightful judgement but I hope your fellow citizens will rejoyce for the disappearance of such a monster.

His mutilated head must reach you soon.

[Darkstone]

In honor of the new year, the enigmatic Oracles of Agartha share their wisdom and foresight with all:

The greater army put to flight in disorder,
Scarcely further shall it be pursued:
Army reassembled and the legion reduced,
Then it shall be chased out and not rescued.

We predict dark days ahead.
The Age of Peace has ended.
The Age of Chaos has begun.

[Aapeli]

The age of lizards is over for sure. With just my capitol left our mighty god wishes to support us no longer. The lizards have also lost the support of their overlord Aapeli as he is going to a cruise today and wont be back till thursday (I shall set myself to Ai).

[meister_miagi]

The Deep Ones of R'lyeh will gladly help T'ien Chi punish the Ulmish Barbarians for their warmongering ways.

[Heinrich]

Is there a way to get back from AI?

[Darkstone]

I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

[klagrok]

Yup rules state once computer has taken control of a player position it cannot be reversed.

[Saxon]

Karlem,

I told you to stay on the other side of the river. But would you listen? Noooo! Clearly, it was for your own safety, but too late now. At least you can call your pretender back, sorry about the prophet...

Everyone else,

Please be careful crossing the river.

[Karlem]

Meister Miagi (Ryleh):

Attached is the file with the screenshot of our NAP 3 Turns. I have not received any warning from your attack.You have broken our NAP wihtout prior declaration of war!

Remove your troops from my lands and then wait the 3 turns NAP or everybody will know that you are a treacher and nobody will make a NAP with you, ever.

Karlem

Ps.- Saxon, if you want we can have peace, I will not move towards the southern river and you can recover those provinces, ok?. Seems that Ryleh breaks its NAPs freely and you are an interesting enemy but they are a hated one.

[Darkstone]

I am confused, I believed NAP's in this game are serious business.

[Karlem]

Me too Darkstone, me too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif but this turn Ryleh has attacked me again.... XD

[Karlem]

As far as I know a NAP 3 turns means that you have to say 3 turns in advance that you are going to break it, isn't it?

This is the wonderful message that I have received from Ryleh:

"I am sorry but our 3 turns NAP has expired and my forces need a place to expand after Ulm has pushed me out"

Perhaps Ryelh or me is misunderstanding what a NAP 3 turns means... could anyone more experienced clarify what a 3 turn NAP means?

[klagrok]

It means that you have to give 3 turns notice before hostilities commence....but then again some people might not have ever played a game with a NAP so I can see where there might be some confusion. Usually once you set a NAP in any game I have ever played you dont attack out of the blue--unless of course you dont care about consequences.

[Ylvali]

I guess klagrok is correct in that this is a newbie mistake. I probably could have made it myself since this is my first MP game and have never heard of this NAP praxis.

This being a newbie game, it is probably best to assume no one knows anything about MP customs when making agreements.

[Karlem]

Well, but if you do not know what a NAP 3 turns means normal thing is to read or ask about it, not to propose something that you do not know (read the atachment HE proposed it to me!).

I can accept that it is a newbie "mistake" and not make a fuse and publically state that Miagi is a treacher but I want a compensation for that mistake otherwise now that is clear that it is a "mistake" if the person does not undo it... well it's obvious that it is not a mistake but something done on purpose.

So Ryleh, what are you? A treacher that breaks NAPs or a newbie that made a mistake and is going to retreat and after retreating completely of my lands take 3 turns and then attack? It is up to you.

Ps.- If you pillage and 200% tax the lands i will assume also that you are a treacher also taking benefits that should not come from such a "mistake".

[Ylvali]

He proposed it? Well then he should know what it means.

[Heinrich]

May the world know the word of Heinrich Kruger, Prince of Metals, wise ruler of Ulm:

Let me tell you the story of the beautiful Bixia Nuanjin, Imperial Consort of Tien Chi, who managed to infiltrate the mighty Keep of Ulm.

Bixia Nuanjin was working daily in the kitchen of the Keep, serving garrison as well as nobles smiths and commanders.

But she was known for her nightly activities. Rumours were spreading in the Keep of her numerous lovers fighting each other to get her favours.

She was finally caught by a jealous lover who found her stealing parchments in my laboratory.

She was tortured and convinced as a spy of Tien Chi.

Then she was brought to the pillory, had her hairs shaved and turned all over the town allowing our fellow citizens to give her the punishment she deserved.

She was finally beheaded and quartered, as this is the fate for those of her kind.

May his death be a lesson to whoever tries to spy our lands.

[meister_miagi]

I thought our agreement was no to attack each other for 3 Turns, that's why I wrote in my proposal that we could negotiate further agreements after three turns. I am sorry, I didn't know a NAP meant you had to give three turns notice. Someone else in this offered me a 10 Turn NAP, which I accepted thinking we would have 10 Turns of peace.
I dind't raise the tax to 200 or pillage and I will retreat my forces immediately.

[Karlem]

Thanks Meister Miagi, I understand that this is then a misunderstanding and that you are an honorable person. After you retreat we will give us 3 turns and then we will begin, ok?
NAP X means that you give X turns of pre alert before attacking (see klagrok post).

[JZ]

*sigh* And there is another one troubleguy.

"I agree to 20 turns of peace between us, and of course a NAP3. Let us slaughter all the pretenders of the world, before we turn to each other. I think we should have a strong working relationship, perhaps gem or magic item trades."

It was on turn 4 from monkeys, also we agreed on splitting territories. Because I was little occupied monkey took territories that we agreed will be mine and recently declared war before 20 turns are over. I mean, NOW is turn 20 of game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif So, another player who thinks that diplomacy is only for his own benefits and that he should not stick to his words.

[Omnirizon]

Was it turn 4? We thought it was turn 2.

But stop quibbling, we sent you a message in honor of the NAP3. We sent the message when we did so the war would start as the peace treaty expired.

At any rate, we didn't attack you as you warred with Ulm, even though that would have been the perfect oppurtunity. We must march on you now only because Nero, of Pythium, is moving in. It would be terribly imprudent of us to allow them to engulf your empire, while we sat happily by.

The monkey kings, in their infinite wisdom, offered your crumbling empire the chance to lay down your arms and join us, to live side by side with the monkey people, under the light of the magnificent Pihmago. But you stubbornly refuse. But Pihmago is a just god, and we still revere the honorable, but decaying empire of Tien Chi. Pihmago will reincarnate your fallen as donkeys in their next life, for your stubborness in this one.

[Saxon]

Breaking NAP is not nice. However, it is possible. Many not nice things are possible. For example, you all question my position as the one true god. However, that is a different topic.

May I suggest that, if you make a treaty, make it very clear. Misunderstandings are not needed. Betrayal will happen, but don’t do it by accident! If it happens it is not illegal, it is just not nice. But then again, we are playing a game where we are trying to kill each other, which isn't actually that nice a goal... In any case, try to find ways of building trust in your partners, so you both are comfortable.

This is a newbie game and we are all learning. If we are not, we are either not newbies or not very bright.

[Omnirizon]

There is also a difference between outright treachery and acting on 'Blood in the Water'.

We can be honorable sharks in this game, but in the end we are all sharks. If someone is dying, you don't honorably stand by and let your future enemies feast on the remains.

Peace treaties and NAPs allow us to feel relatively secure with our neighbors, enough so that we can focus our energies else where. We all make them because it is strategically beneficial. If only one person was forging treaties with their neighbors, that person would win as everyone fought amongst themselves indiscriminately. Treaties also provide security on a border from other players, as you know the party you signed with is going to prevent another player from walking over and attacking you. But really the only thing holding any given treaty in place is the fact that your neighbor is roughly equal in strength to you, and both of you would suffer from war (aka: mutually assured destruction, MAD; it is how the real world works too).

When these elements have disappeared from the treaty, how much of a treaty really is it? Tien Chi is crumbling, weakened from war with Ulm, now Pythium moving in to take advantage of it. What happens to my treaty then? Is Pythium going to honor that? Do I just let them take over all the lands from this dying nation, and then forge a treaty with them as if nothing has changed?

Just being realistic

[Ylvali]

Nero marches only because he wishes to play his opera at the royal theater of Tien chi. The guards of Tien chi did not allow passage and thus we must invade.

The yellowskins will rejoice as Nero brings passion and poetry into their lifes.

[Omnirizon]

As is typical of the west, you assume your eastern neighbors are barbarians, Nero.

Tien Chi and Bandar Log are ancient empires with deep culture. The spirituality of Bandar Log even includes edicts on the romantic relationships of the monkey people, going so far as to offer advice on performing pleasing copulation. We will have a treatise written by one of our revered Vanarian philosophers, Vatsayana, delivered to your castle; if you have been reincarnated with passions beyond poetry, you will the text interesting.

The thinkers of Tien Chi have produced philosophy on filial piety, social welfare, diplomacy, and warfare. Their recent diplomatic maneuvers to smear the honorable image of Bandar Log is typical of their subtle skills.

[Ylvali]

I did not claim they were barbarians. Not at all. The depth of Tien chi culture is the very reason I wish to set up my play there. But as they would not grant me passage I chose to invade.

I thank you for the treatise, I have heard of Bandar philosophy and have been longing to read it.

[Omnirizon]

The Bandar Log can appreciate your dramaturgical sensibilities, Nero. Art is indeed power.

[Hoplosternum]

Work are sending me off to Germany today until Saturday.

I have Dom3 on my work PC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif so I hope I will be able to carry on making my turns. As long as I can receive the turns. My hotmail account is blocked at work usually so I will have to try and get the turns to my work account somehow. I will also be able to comunicate with people - but only by pm via this site.

I will only have a couple of short windows to play the game each day.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

[Hoplosternum]

I can play turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Arco is saved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif For now....

Long live the Elephants!

And by Elephants I mean Arcoscephale Elephants. Not Caelums substandard hairy Elephants or Bandar Logs so called Elephants which are probably just a bunch of Gorillas monkeying around under a large grey blanket....

[Omnirizon]

what a glorious battle. GLORIOUS!!!

wouldn't you agree Tien Chi?

at the smelter of war the mighty Bandar forge destiny, and quench the glowing blade in the blood of the fallen.

The mighty Bandar, outnumbered almost four to one, stood steady on the field of battle. The brave Markata, chattering with lust for battle, ran before the towering war elephants, drawing the first volley's of enemy fire. The battlemages of Tien Chi unleased fierce bolts of magma, raining fire upon the stout Bandar. Their Red Guard charged our flanks, where the Royal Bandar Swordsmen held them back with steel and strength. The wise and mystic Bandar Rikshi unleashed powerful magics, draining the strength from our enemies, and replenishing our own. Our war elephants ravaged through the ranks of our enemy, trampling all underfoot as the charged for the backline. Our Royal Guard, their fur matted with blood, valiantly defended our own rear from the charging Red Guard.

In the end, of Tien Chi's 200 troops, a mere 40 escaped the wrath of Bandar Log, who stood outnumbered almost four to one. But their might and valor knows no bounds, and they emerged victorious!

[Ylvali]

I´m going away saturday, would you be okay with postoning eventual hosting during saturday to sunday afternoon?

[Omnirizon]

no prob at all. send me a PM to remind me before you leave.

[Ylvali]

Great! I will try and make the delay as short as possible.

[Omnirizon]

the turns are taking awhile because I delayed the quickhost for extra 24 hours for ermor and oceana, then the following quickhost will also be delayed to a 48 interval to allow pythium time to return.

[Omnirizon]

should I delay MORE time for ermor? I havn't heard anything from them. But I think I will. Pythium is out of town all weekend, so not really much problem just putting the game on hold. We all get a weekend off from Dom3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

unless anybody has any objections of course.

[meister_miagi]

I would rather play the next round unless Ermor asked for a longer delay.

[Omnirizon]

alright then.

I they've had an extra day, and I've heard nothing from them. I suppose it is only fair. The round will be played.

[Omnirizon]

on a similar note, I will be extending the quickhost for this next turn to 48 hours as well, to allow time for Pythium to return.

[meister_miagi]

Does anybody know what happened to my neighbour Oceania? He is not showing up on the game info page anymore.

[Omnirizon]

AI

[Saxon]

All,

As I posted earlier, I do not think we should delay turns for any reason. Every SE4 game I played died when people started asking for delayed turns. It saps the fun.

I did not ask for delays this time, I arranged a sub. He did not do well, so ermor staled. Tough for me, but oh well.

Again, any time there is a request for a delay, I will vote against it, even if it is myself!

[Omnirizon]

I, for one, didn't mind a slow turn (48 hour turn) weekend. It is getting around the time where many games would be considering a 48 hour timer anyway.

That being said, is anyone wanting to lengthen the hosting interval? or is everyone fine?

I actually may be wanting to soon. It is taking more time to think about and do my turns, and with school I may be wanting a 48 hour timer. But I'm OK as of right now.

[Heinrich]

I am fine with the 24h timer.

[Ylvali]

Well I´m back now, playing my turn right now. I did not expect you to wait so long for me but I am grateful.

Otherwise I think we could stay with 24h for the time being, I still take less than 20 min to play a turn.

[meister_miagi]

I would like to keep the 24h clock for a while longer.

[Darkstone]

I too am for the 24h clock (though I certainly take my time with my turns).

[sansanjuan]

I'm good with the 24HR.

On another note I'm certainly learning a lot. MP is vastly more exciting than SP. In SP one can just mass PD in a province and the AI will break itself against it turn after turn.

Many of us have benefited from neighbors going AI or being next to the player having an early dominion death. I'm guessing soon alliances will be chosen (and second guessed) and research choices and battle scripts will win or lose the day. What a game.


-SSJ

Edit: fixed "speling misteakes"

[Saxon]

I agree, this has been a great learning experience and I am having a blast. Much more challenging and thought provoking that SP. It is too bad we lost some people to AI, but hopefully we are now down to the folks who are in for the duration.

I am still on for 24 hour turns, it keeps the excitement high. Turns are getting longer, but it is not too bad yet.

[Saxon]

Did the turn deadline get shifted a day?

Anyone want to sell a dwarven hammer?

[Omnirizon]

yes, miester magi requested the turn be delayed a day.

ever wonder how there is a dwarven hammer but no dwarves?

[llamabeast]

Vanheim/Helheim have dwarves.

[klagrok]

WTF??????????? I am getting this message after I downloaded my turn file--when I try to load my Acouchi game--NAGOT gick fel! Dominions version is too old Get an update at www.illwinter.com (http://www.illwinter.com) myversion314 fileversion315 nation37.

Anyone else getting said message???Strange as I already have the 3.14.......

[Darkstone]

You may (and should really) notice that the 3.15 patch came out today.

[klagrok]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

yes just realized it......lalalalalala

[Omnirizon]

actually, "nagot gick fel" is one of those word puzzles where you have to rerangrea the lestert to fuigre out what it is trying to yas.

[Saxon]

Sorry, I am a bit stupid. Does this mean our game has been patched and we all need to updated our computers?

Having already staled two turns due to technical problems, so I want to be 100% sure on this.

Thanks!

[Darkstone]

Yes. You need the patch.

[Omnirizon]

curses on the treacherous Nero. CURSES!!!

we will trample you under-foot our mighty war berserking war elephants, and burn your precious opera house to the ground. You will have nothing to prattle your poetry to but ASHES. ASHES we say.

[Saxon]

Hey, who served up all the calamari? Surely if you kill the pretender at the top of the chart you have earned the right to brag. It wasn’t me, I have been too busy stepping on spiders who wouldn’t stay on their side of the river…

[meister_miagi]

sorry, double post...

[meister_miagi]

Sadly, Toby the Kraken gave in to his nightmares and was davoured by a Horror. But never fear, the one true God is not gone for good!

[Saxon]

Ouch! A horror, that is nasty. I know you may not be willing to answer this, but since it is a newbie game, I will ask. If you want to answer after the game is done, I would understand, but I am curious.

Did you get nailed by something out of the Void gate or was it a horror due to horror marking? I have read about horror marking in the manual, but never faced one.

As for the One True God, don't worry, I am still here...

The Unhappy One

[meister_miagi]

No problem. Toby was attacked by a Horror who calls himself the Hunter of Heroes. I think commanders can get horror marks if they kill a lot of people or get very powerful.

[Darkstone]

As far as I can tell, that particular horror only shows up when someone has been on the hall of heroes for a while (though it is random). Being Horrormarked may affect it, but is not neccessary.

[Heinrich]

How horrific...

[Ylvali]

Omnirizon said:
curses on the treacherous Nero. CURSES!!!

we will trample you under-foot our mighty war berserking war elephants, and burn your precious opera house to the ground. You will have nothing to prattle your poetry to but ASHES. ASHES we say.

Yes, destroy the innocent if you will. Ravage the capitol of your former ally. Fulfill your betrayal to the bitter end.

I will watch these ashes and cry. And my tears shall water the soil. Plants shall sprout, little green rebels against the heartlessness of false pretenders.

You call me treacherous, as if we had once been brothers. But this brotherhood was only the wishful thinking of sneaky apes who would not know honour if the face of despair. You who betrayed your allies at the first sign of waekness. The Tien chi ghosts haunts you people, and cursed are your followers for this.

I stand ready for your charge, let us see what you can muster. Your army is three times larger and we are prepared to die with straight backs and open eyes. If we fall, our families shall avenge us.

Nero

[Heinrich]

I just figured tonight when I got home I didn't received my turn.

I tried asking for a resend but I haven't received any message at the moment. It seems the llamaserver stopped responding again.

In this case, would it be possible to postpone hosting to tommorrow 12 AM or is it too late?

-- Edit: I finally received my turn. Thanks for your time.

[Omnirizon]

Ylvali said:

Omnirizon said:
curses on the treacherous Nero. CURSES!!!

we will trample you under-foot our mighty war berserking war elephants, and burn your precious opera house to the ground. You will have nothing to prattle your poetry to but ASHES. ASHES we say.

Yes, destroy the innocent if you will. Ravage the capitol of your former ally. Fulfill your betrayal to the bitter end.

I will watch these ashes and cry. And my tears shall water the soil. Plants shall sprout, little green rebels against the heartlessness of false pretenders.

You call me treacherous, as if we had once been brothers. But this brotherhood was only the wishful thinking of sneaky apes who would not know honour if the face of despair. You who betrayed your allies at the first sign of waekness. The Tien chi ghosts haunts you people, and cursed are your followers for this.

I stand ready for your charge, let us see what you can muster. Your army is three times larger and we are prepared to die with straight backs and open eyes. If we fall, our families shall avenge us.

Nero



We slaughter the good people of Tien Chi only to shield them from your half-witted "poetic" prattle and your insipid sophistry which now fouls the air.

you talk as if you knew of the relations of Tien Chi and Bandar, but you know nothing. At least we never feigned friendship to them. Our intentions were orderly and bureaucratic (mostly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif) to the moment of invasion.

But you practice the sophistry of your heritage. forging rhetoric and smithing words to sway the wills of others. BEWARE ULM. You ally now with a snake.

[Heinrich]

It is very kind of you, ruler of the apes, to take care of my diplomatic behaviour and security.

I could have trusted your sweet words if you hadn't previously attacked my province without any reason, warning or explaination.

Proud soldiers of Ulm fought bravely to protect our kingdom but most of them died trampled by your monstrous elephants. Their corpses and blood still strew the swamps.

Be sure they sacrifice won't go unpunished!

[Omnirizon]

unlike your new ally, when the proud apes have aggressive intentions, we do not hide them. we revel in the glory of battle! we had made no effort to contact you, no prior relations; nor had you given us this effort. there was nothing between us to be reasoned over, warned of, or explained. Only the most just law, only the lowest common denominator, existed between us; that law of power and struggle. your musings of trust are then nonsense; power and struggle are above trust; you must lower and dirty yourself with such things as 'relationships', 'love', or 'diplomacy' before trust becomes an issue. your dead are fortunate to have died in glorious battle with the noble apes and their war elephants. The fiery Pihmago smiles upon the rage and passion of battle. Your soldiers will be reincarnated as mighty tigers, to hunt and stalk and live by death, power, and struggle. Should they be most fortunate, our Vanara may find and train them to war, and ride them into battle, so they may experience its raging glory for two lives in a row!

[Ylvali]

So that was the mighty stampede of the bandar elephants? So that was the proud royal guard of the jeweled city? So that was Pihmago, the glorious dragon?

We are not impressed.

[Ylvali]

This time we are impressed!

2 mages and one commander attacking my main force, now thats courage! Such a waste of brave heroes, I wish I could have spared them...

[sansanjuan]

I will be on a cruise (woohoo) starting Sunday 3/23 till 3/30. I do plan on logging in and taking my turns but my PMs may be pretty short.
-SSJ

[Ylvali]

The royal shadow theatre of Tien Chi presents:

__________________________________________________

THE FALL OF PIHMAGO
A glorious operette about the epic war of Bandar, Pythium Tien chi and Ulm.

Starring Nero, god of Pythium as Nero, god of Pythium.

In Celebration of the new peace treaty following Bandars fall. The Shadow ensemble has put together a great show! Come see the great heroes of the war come to life again, and this time they sing!

Wine! Belly dancers! Live elephants!

Do not miss this once in a life time opportunity! Grab your teleportation rod and go to Tien chi today!
__________________________________________________

[sansanjuan]

PT Barnum lives! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif-SSJ

[Ylvali]

Can we have a pause for easter? Friday til sunday. I´ll be doin family stuff and such and I figure some others here would be busy too...

[Ray]

That would be fine with me. And I suggest that we switch to 48 hour turns when we start back up.

[Darkstone]

Well, it seems some problems with my email will make me stale this turn. Ah well.

I second the 48 hour timer.

[sansanjuan]

Thirds..
-SSJ

[Omnirizon]

i guess i'm not in the game anymore, but i don't mind continuing admining. I'm subscribed to the thread, so post here with any concerns, alternatively PM me. if someone needs their email changed, PM me.

someone else can take over admining though, if anyone would like to.

edit:
P.S. I did go ahead and change the hosting interval to 48 hours.

[llamabeast]

Hey guys,

I recommend someone takes over from Omnirizon, it's no fun admining when you're not in the game any more. Any volunteers?

[klagrok]

I wouldnt mind but as Im off to the Bahamas next week probably wouldnt be a good idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Saxon]

As the King of Stale Turns, I am not the best choice to take over admin.

[Ylvali]

I could try admining, as long as people have patience with newbie mistakes. I´ve never done it before.

[Omnirizon]

its nothing. mainly just changing email addresses for people and postponing hosting when necessary.

http://www.llamaserver.net/index.cgi
click on the game of interest
click on admin options

[Ylvali]

Ok, it seem I´m the new admin. Got the password and everything.

With my hand clasped over my heart I wow not to abuse this power.

[Omnirizon]

power corrupts. welcome to the dark side http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Ylvali]

I will never fall for such temptation! I will be a jedi like my father!

[Darkstone]

Then the republic has little to fear. ;0

[Ylvali]

Klagrok is going to bahamas to lie on the beach.

Welcome to Cupido2 who will be subbing for him about 5-6 turns.

[klagrok]

Im just wanting to see what it is really like to be an Abysian..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Oh and Ylvali think you have the game set to 2 day turns--so unless we are permanently doing 2 now you might want to see if the others want to go back to one day turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ylvali]

I think we are on 48h from now on. We could go to 24h back if most of the players vote for it.

Myself I don´t mind at all really. I could do either.

[Heinrich]

48h with quickhost seems good for me

[Ylvali]

Yes I think that is the general opinion.

[Saxon]

I wouldn't mind 24 hours again, as things seem really slow now. However, I would stale less at 48 hours, so perhaps I should be quiet! Yes, please consider me a vote for 48 hours.

As a general comment, I am having a lot of fun and I hope you are as well. I have learned so much, so fast it is amazing. So thank you for playing the game with me, even if you are all trying to cut the undead heart out of my pretender!

[Ylvali]

I´m also having great fun! It´s amazing to have your first MP game. Totally different game. All your carefully plotted plans suddenly make a real difference.

[cupido2]

Greetings from the Vice-King of Abysia. I hope I won't put Klagrok the Great to shame with my humble attempt to lead his realm.

And I would like to ask, if anyone could trade me some earthboots or a dwarven hammer. I'd like to forge Klagrok a nice welcome-back-present. PM me your price for those two things.

Cupido2, Vice-King of Abysia

[Ray]

I will have no access to email while I am on vacation from April 5 - April 13. Is there anyone who has been eliminated from the game that would be willing to serve as a substitute for that time? Or does anyone know someone who could do that.

Please post here or PM me if you have any suggestions.

By the way, I echo the others who have already said this, but this game has been both a tremendous learning experience and a lot of fun.

[Saxon]

Karlem is still active in other games, you might want to contact him.

Sounds like a nice vacation, I would love to get away from work emails for a while...

[Hoplosternum]

Well it looks like I am about to be knocked out. Bah! Just when I could start making Tartarians too! I doubt they would do me a lot of good though, nothing else has!

But I would like to try out a few of my summons before I go as I have never got far enough to summon them before, even in sp, so I'll try and sell off a few of my items to stay in the game a bit longer. After all you can't take it with you - or so they say....

So if anyone has any of the following - Astral, Fire, Nature or Death gems I'll consider a trade. I'll even consider gold. Enemies included of course! I have on offer....

A Chalice,
A Hammer of the Forge Lord (used but still working),
A shiney Orb of Atlantis - never been used!
A nearly new Flying Ship,
Rings of Wizardry & Sorcery,
A Treelord Staff,
Sundry dwarven hammers, Starshine caps & Crystal Coins,
And many other, as it turns out, useless items....
A bunch of Blood Slaves (70 odd) & a pair of sanguine Dousing rods. Slaves untouched by man or beast!

I will want a reasonable price for these otherwise I think its only fair that I let my conquerers capture them where they fall. And I may want to keep hold of a few odd things for any Thugs I can produce.

Remember its all in a good cause, 'cause Agartha has a big army and will be looking for people to fight after I have gone and you don't want that to be you just yet do you? Not that my summons will necessarily be going against him....

And congratulations to Agartha for his campaign. I have never felt able to even contest his advance. He's totally outclassed my forces in size and quality. And he pulled a nice move last turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Saxon]

Can you post pictures of the blood slaves, I will circulate them amoung the Lictor's and Sages and see if there is any interest...

[Darkstone]

Frankly, I'm a bit confused how selling your items of power is going to help, but I shan't protest. If I time things correctly, and the next move/trick you pull is what I think it is, you won't get a chance to use anything you get.


Hoplosternum said:
Bah! Just when I could start making Tartarians too!




It seems my reasoning and timing was spot on, then.


Hoplosternum said:
Remember its all in a good cause, 'cause Agartha has a big army and will be looking for people to fight after I have gone and you don't want that to be you just yet do you? Not that my summons will necessarily be going against him....




Such baseless fearmongering, it really doesn't suit you.

Besides, trafficking in blood items/gems and selling arms to a wartorn nation in need of peace, stability, and the gentle and prosperous rule of the Oracles (who will not overtax the population like you have done) is hardly a good cause.


Hoplosternum said:
And congratulations to Agartha for his campaign. I have never felt able to even contest his advance. He's totally outclassed my forces in size and quality. And he pulled a nice move last turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Thank you, it's nice to have one's efforts appreciated.

It's true that I threw a massive torrent of mages, thugs, and troops at you, and it seems with your constant spell attacks, assassinations, etc. had I done anything less, I would be the one asking for help and heaping praise upon you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ray]

Cupido2 will be subbing for me from April 5 - 13.

I will see you all in 1 week.

[cupido2]

Greetings again. This time of the Vice-king of Man formerly known as the Vice-king of Abysia.

[klagrok]

woo hoo!!!!!! How about giving your ex-king some of that land for free http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[cupido2]

Hehe. How about some gems for free for your ex-sub?

[Ylvali]

Email changed.

[klagrok]

I can spare a few gems...

[Saxon]

All,

I have a problem. A critical mage has disappeared. I have used F1 to check and she is gone. Further, there was no battle in the province in question. Nor was she mind hunted, arrowed or earth attacked. In fact, I have a message stating that she successfully cast GOR and I have the unit which GOR was cast one. There is no message stating she died of disease. I have used GOR in test games and the caster does not disappear. She is just gone.

I am not one to whine and don’t ask you to wait when I will miss turns, but this unit is rather important to the outcome of the game. If one of you somehow killed her, I am impressed and will soldier one. However, if this is a game bug, it is not great for any of us. I can not just purchase or re-summon another one. Since it is my GOR unit, you can see why I am concerned.

The unit was named Kyra. Any ideas? Especially my close friends Nero, Ulm or Ryleh, who could quite possibly killed her.

[Heinrich]

My agents in Bandar-Kadek reported they saw a pale cloaked woman willing to embark nightly for the northern lands. No doubt she fled your realm of terror.

More seriously, I didn't took part in this even if I would have gladly burnt her to the stake.

I fear you face a game bug.

[sansanjuan]

Saxon said:
All,

I have a problem. A critical mage has disappeared. I have used F1 to check and she is gone. Further, there was no battle in the province in question. Nor was she mind hunted, arrowed or earth attacked. In fact, I have a message stating that she successfully cast GOR and I have the unit which GOR was cast one. There is no message stating she died of disease. I have used GOR in test games and the caster does not disappear. She is just gone.

I am not one to whine and don’t ask you to wait when I will miss turns, but this unit is rather important to the outcome of the game. If one of you somehow killed her, I am impressed and will soldier one. However, if this is a game bug, it is not great for any of us. I can not just purchase or re-summon another one. Since it is my GOR unit, you can see why I am concerned.

The unit was named Kyra. Any ideas? Especially my close friends Nero, Ulm or Ryleh, who could quite possibly killed her.



Sax -FWIW I have cast GoR with no ill effects in this game. It certainly would be obvious if that caster disappeared. Perhaps post on the main forum for more ides?

-SSJ

[Ylvali]

Which province was she in?

If it was me then you should have got some mind hunt or seeking arrow message. I killed two of your commanders this turn but I think they were both in the sea.

[Saxon]

Howdy,

I am at work and do not have access to the game, sorry. I will double check the number of distance spell killings, but I am pretty sure they tally with Ylvali's count. I think it was a bug. I will post on the main board and if Edi or one of the others think it is useful, I will post them the turn file.

So be it, it is like when you twist your ankle playing sports. You have to get up and keep going. I will work to overcome this and shall try and find a way to drive the Menace from the North into a grave. That way I can re-animate them as cup bearers. I do need more waiters in my feasting hall...

[Saxon]

All,

My bad, it turns out there is a good reason for this. Here is what I got on the main forum

Sombre said:
Also - was she a hama dryad or naead or nature spirit of any kind?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like it. Those have an effect which is like Disease (doesn't recover HP, loses 1 HP per month) when she leaves her home province. I really think the game should reflect this by showing an affliction when the spirit is suffering from this.

In other words, my unit was going to die, but the game is mildly bugged and does not inform you when they die from this. Sorry for the confusion, I guess that is why this is a newbie game. Many thanks for your replies, some of which included information that was confidential. On the plus side, you all now know my plan!

[Darkstone]

Just in case anyone was wondering why I staled, I had done my turn, just forgot to send it in / thought I had.

Ah well. I too learn to double-check more.

[Saxon]

I thought I would share this, as we are all newbies.

A number of provinces let you recruit nature mages and some have a random on water and such. If you can get W1, you can build a ring to boost water. Put that with a W1N1 mage, and you can cast Summon Naead. Of course, you need a W income, but you can search with Call of Aspu if you have W1 mages with a W ring. You have to plan ahead and you have to get a bit lucky with the provinces you capture. My SC pretender allowed me to take a lot of provinces early, which gave me a good selection. It also gave me a lead in provinces, which has for some reason made some people think they should attack me. Nothing is every perfect…

Once you have summoned, you have a W3N3 mage, which is very useful. I find it hard to get paths I don’t have, but this was a fairly easy and strong one. Of course, as I have discovered, you can not move her around, but nothing is every perfect. Anyway, throw on the thistle mace you can now forge and you have N4, which has some nice uses.

On a related topic, there was a post in the forums that noted that holy sites tend to give astral pearls. I have started searching more with my priests and, sure enough, lots of holy sites. You may wish to check it out. Why I am telling Nero this is beyond me, given what I suspect his long term plan is… Seriously, I had never looked at holy searches before and it has made a difference. It is part of the reason I am doing well on the gem graph. The other part is the provinces, which goes back to my SC pretender and the early expansion. More provinces means more gems. However, nothing is every perfect…

Check out my research, especially early on. While I was searching and taking over provinces, I fell far behind in research and remain behind. I had to spend a fortune in death gems to catch up. That is a problem. No offense Ulm and Abysia, but you guys are in deep trouble… If I have more magic than you and I am paying for being behind, you are going to have some real problems…

The other place things were, and remain, not perfect is gold. I took some bad scales to get my SC pretender. This is the reason I have more provinces, but less income than several players. MA Ermor is different that EA and LA, as I have learned the hard way. Everything is a trade off and nothing is every perfect.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. I really should go back to the office and do some work…

[sansanjuan]

Sax,
Nice post. Hell with work...
-SSJ (from work) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Saxon]

You might all want to take my advice with a grain of salt, given what happened on the graphs last turn…

SSJ,

You must be working harder than me, you post is shorter!

[Ylvali]

Saxon said:
You might all want to take my advice with a grain of salt, given what happened on the graphs last turn…



Censored by the pythian authorities. Code black. Confidential.

[Ylvali]

I am going away until sunday evening. Would you others be okay with waiting for me?

In that case I would sent in the current turn so you´d get the next one and then postpone hosting.

I could perhaps get a sub but I´d rather not as the plans are getting kind of complex now in the late game.

[Darkstone]

@Ylvali:
Of course.

Aren't you the game admin? If not, then you should be specific in the number of hours you want added.

@everyone else:
It's most troublesome how the fate of the world is being decided in the north and in the west.

[sansanjuan]

Ylvali said:
I am going away until sunday evening. Would you others be okay with waiting for me?

In that case I would sent in the current turn so you´d get the next one and then postpone hosting.

I could perhaps get a sub but I´d rather not as the plans are getting kind of complex now in the late game.



I vote we wait for Y's return.
-SSJ

[Ray]

I am fine with waiting until Sunday. Ijust had a substitute for a week and it was very hard trying to explain everything that was going on in an email.

[Heinrich]

No problem, I am short in time this week so it will be perfect.

[Ylvali]

Ok guys. Thanks for your patience.

I have changed the hosting interval so it won´t force host during the weekend. I also sent in my turn so the quickhost will still commence one more time so you have something to chew on.

[cupido2]

The reign of the vice-king has ended and the only true leader of Man sits on the throne again.

[Saxon]

You all see that right?!? The evil grin, in demonic red? Proof he Nero evil! He says he is just listening to music, but we all now know better...

[Ylvali]

Saxon said:
You all see that right?!? The evil grin, in demonic red? Proof he Nero evil! He says he is just listening to music, but we all now know better...


Preposterous! Neros everlasting smile is always one of love and divine wisdom! You will be punished for those vile attempts to poison the reputation of our god!

- The grand theurgical council, deparment for public affairs.

[Ylvali]

BTW I have reset the timer to 48h. It will take effect after Darkstone has submitted his turn.

[Ray]

Ylvali, when I go to the Llamaserver site it says the next turn is Monday, May 5. Did you set it to 2 weeks instead of 2 days?

[Ylvali]

I set the timer to 250h over the weekend. Now I changed it back to 48. But it seems the change won´t take effect until after the host.

I sent a message to darkstone earlier today that I would force host the game tonight. As he has not answered I will do that now.

[Ylvali]

Something went wrong, the game hosted two times in a row. I need to contact Llamabeast to ask how to step back one turn. I´ll get back to you.

[klagrok]

i think cuz it was set to May 5th or something---stale turn was a bummer---so we sit tight or just let it ride???

[Ylvali]

I will try to fix it. But I need Llamabeasts help cause I don´t have a clue how to do it or if it´s possible. I guess that the effect should be pretty equal as all staled. Still there could be some who would suffer more than others. Wait until tomorrow and we´ll see.