What happenes?: I break siege, new army moves in.

[Argitoth]

So what happenes if you break siege, kill the sieging army, and a new army moves in? Will there be two battles with both armies or just one?

[Saulot]

Well, according to my manual; if you succeed in your break siege, then movement based battles would occur, so you would then fight a defensive fight against the new army.

[Argitoth]

Thinking back now, I think when the enemy has an army at the castle, you break siege, and the enemy "backs up" the army with a new army, both armies would be combined in the ONE battle, HOWEVER...

my situation is different. There's TWO enemies. Enemy A is sieging. I break. Enemy B moves in. Is there a battle with B or no?

[vfb]

Assuming none of the armies are using magical movement, the turn resolution sequence is:

12. Friendly Movement. All movement ending in a friendly province takes place.

13. Other Movement. All other movement, including break siege.

14. Movement battles.

15. Castle storming.

One question is, what is the affiliation of the "new army" that moves in? Here is how it is supposed to work, according to the manual, assuming the Besieged army does a break siege:

If the Moving Army is the same nation as the Besieged Army, then the Moving Army and the Besieged Army will group together and fight a single battle against the Sieging Army.

If the Moving Army is the same nation as the Sieging Army, then the Moving Army and the Sieging Army will group together and fight a single battle against the Besieged Army.

If the Moving Army is a third nation, then one of two possibilities can occur, randomly:

1) The Moving Army fights the Sieging Army, and the victor then fights a subsequent battle against the Besieged Army

or

2) The Besieged Army fights the Sieging Army, and the victor then fights a subsequent battle against the Moving Army

[lch]

vfb said:
If the Moving Army is the same nation as the Besieged Army, then the Moving Army and the Besieged Army will group together and fight a single battle against the Sieging Army.

If the Moving Army is the same nation as the Sieging Army, then the Moving Army and the Sieging Army will group together and fight a single battle against the Besieged Army.

If the Moving Army is a third nation, then one of two possibilities can occur, randomly:

1) The Moving Army fights the Sieging Army, and the victor then fights a subsequent battle against the Besieged Army

or

2) The Besieged Army fights the Sieging Army, and the victor then fights a subsequent battle against the Moving Army


Replace all occurences of "besieged army" with "siege breaking army". Battles from movement phase happen like vfb wrote. Then, if there are still commanders left that were set to "storm castle", those proceed to fight the defenders.

[vfb]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "assuming the Besieged army does a break siege". Bah, would have been clearer if I just wrote it the way you suggest.

[lch]

It's the easiest to think of a siege break as a zero distance movement. Battle's outside, the usual rules concerning battles from movement apply.

[Torin]

i dont remember that, but what can happen is after winning the break siege, the new army sieges the fort without a fight since breakers are not on patrol.

[Argitoth]

Torin, that's what I figured made sense.

[Edi]

Torin said:
i dont remember that, but what can happen is after winning the break siege, the new army sieges the fort without a fight since breakers are not on patrol.


Torin's answer is in most likelihood the correct one. Such behavior would also be consistent with the behavior bugs related to events causing indie attacks in provinces where a castle is under siege.

[vfb]

No, I tested it, with:

Marverni is sieging Helheim.
Helheim breaks siege.
Oceania moves into Helheim.

What happened (from Helheim's point of view) was:

1) There was a battle in Helheim. The sieging force has been beaten by our forces. (fight against Marverni)

2) Our undefended province has been conquered by the enemy (this message is bogus)

3) There was a battle in Helheim, The sieging force has been beaten by our forces. (fight against Oceania)

So the 'break siege' army got to fight both armies, even though it wasn't patrolling.


Torin, perhaps you are thinking of what happens when you storm a castle -- if a 3rd army moves into the province and you stormed with your entire force, then that 3rd army will be sieging you.

Edit: savegame attached

[Edi]

Thanks for confirming that, vfb

Now, all I have to do is sort out all these siege issues...

*head explodes*

[Dedas]

vfb, I want to look at the file but I need the "Kitchen sink" mod (lol). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[vfb]

Okay, should be this one ... attached. Darn mods enabling themselves without my permission! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Let me know what else you need. Probably easyspell.dm too, it's all in the zip.

[Dedas]

I need the map "mini.tga" as well.

[lch]

vfb said:
Torin, perhaps you are thinking of what happens when you storm a castle -- if a 3rd army moves into the province and you stormed with your entire force, then that 3rd army will be sieging you.


Or maybe if the defending party throws some magic movement commandos on the sieging army while they get reinforcements. The teleported army will defeat the sieging army outside, then get inside to snuggle with the others, while the reinforcements siege again.

I don't think that there are extra phases involved in sieging that are not in the manual. As I wrote, siege break is a zero distance movement, that's all. The process is very deterministic, somebody go forward and draw a nice chart. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[vfb]

Map attached