Timing of Ritual Spells

[DonCorazon]

Trying to understand the logistics of casting ritual spells that target armies in MP games. So, lets say I get my turn and I see an enemy army in Province X. If I cast a ritual spell, like Seeking Arrow, and target it to be cast on Province X, then send in my turn. Lets assume my opponent orders this enemy army to move during the same turn. So will the spell hit the enemy army before it moves, or should I be trying to anticipate where my enemy will send the army in order to hit the right province?

I am sure there was a clearer way of asking this question but hopefully it makes sense. Thanks.

[vfb]

Pages 71 and 72 in the manual have all the gory details.

In this case, you're comparing (5) Rituals and (12) or (13) Movement.

So, unless enemy uses magic to spirit their commanders away (he casts teleport or similar spell, or another mage casts wind ride or similar spell) then your spell aimed at Province X will hit a commander in Province X before the commander moves.

Even if the enemy does use a ritual to move the commander out of the province, there is still a chance that your attack ritual will occur before the movement ritual.

[DonCorazon]

Thanks vfb. I will check out the manual but appreciate your response.

Now to go inflict some damage on my foes....mwahahaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Nikolai]

Reverse works too. He can defend by casting dome spell (helps against most anything but armageddon), teleport astral mages (to catch mindhunters), and there is chance his defenses go before your attack. He can also recruit crap local commander to absorb damage, or equip mages with protection items, like for example shield of valor.

[vfb]

Or he could cast Astral Corruption if he's capable, that's always a good defense against rituals. Kind of unfriendly to the rest of the world, though!

[Micah]

To clarify:

1. Item shuffling will go BEFORE any and all rituals.

2. Decoy commander recruitment will go BEFORE all rituals.

3. Battles caused by remote summons/teleports will go AFTER the defender's rituals, but BEFORE normal movement. (Though the units should actually get there randomly during the ritual phase, which could matter if there are other rituals being tossed at the province in question)

4. All other ritual effects will happen RANDOMLY before or after opponent's rituals, and BEFORE normal movement. Note that this DOES include remote assassin spells, such as manifestation, earth attack, and disease demon, which differs from battles in the province.

[Wick]

On #3 & 4, do you know if the order is random or by caster ID number?

[Micah]

Oops, chalk up another one to lies by the rulebook, it does appear to be in caster ID order.

[vfb]

Oh! Maybe that explains why everyone usually gets burned by AC in the turn it's cast, and AN nearly always comes first too. It's because those spells are usually (not always, of course) cast by a pretender, who has a low ID.

Now we just need a way to see the unit ID, so that you can know if it's safe (for example) for A to cast call of winds and B to cast seeking arrow into the same target province, assuming A and B are too far apart to group them on a 'Y' screen to look at the order.

[Micah]

I believe most rituals do not suffer from friendly fire, but not all. Manifestation I know will hit friendly commanders (I tried it once in a siege) so the casting order thing shouldn't come up TOO much.

[vfb]

We saw this recently in New Dawn:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Number=581445&bodyprev=#Post581445