VampireBat - LA game for new players- started

[llamabeast]

Since FruitBat filled up almost instantaneously, I thought I'd start up an overflow game for new/newish players. I'd recommend players who've already played 0-2 games - if you've played more than that and would like to play regardless, post here and you can play if we're short of players. This should be a nice, fun and friendly game, a reasonable size but not too huge, and generally ideal for new players (that's the plan, at least).

This will be an LA game and will use the Worthy Heroes (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=561063) mod. Renaming will be on, graphs will be on, and everything else will be standard. However, R'lyeh and Ermor will not be allowed in the game, since although fun they are a bit too crazy for a newbie game.

The map will be my modified version of Parganos, which is modified (a) to have a much more fair and even spread of terrain types, (b) to have fair-ish start positions, and (c) to have no gold or magic sites in the seas - so this will be a land-nation only game.

The nations are:

Marignon - seda
Pythium - meister_miagi
Arcoscephale - James243
Ulm - Zenzei
Mictlan - Karlem
Jomon - Wazooking
Midgard - Aezeal
Patala - Ghill

Edit: Added a link to Worthy Heroes, and the map as an attachment.

[seda]

k this time i take marignon.

[meister_miagi]

I'll try Bogarus.

[James243]

I'd love to be involved - Arcoscphale please!

This is my first game. I've played a couple of times against the computer, and had played a reasonable number against the CPU in Dominions 2, but I'm totally new to multiplayer. This also means I'm new to maps & mod requirements. I'll work on getting the Worthy Heroes mod installed, and the map, but bear with me! And any instructions/assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Can't wait!

James.

[Donny]

T'ien Ch'i please.

Will it be a little bit hard for a newbie to play two games at the same time?

However, I wanna have a try.

[Zenzei]

Llamabeast, is there any chance I can lobby this into non-mod game? I think vanilla is good for newbies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyways, I'd like to sign in as Ulm.

[meister_miagi]

Are there Worthy Heroes for Bogarus?

[Karlem]

I'm in with Mictlan. Currently playing 2 games, but I've only finished one.

BTW what do you mean about the sea not having gold or magic sites? Seas have 0 income?

[Wazooking]

I would like to join as Jomon.

I played 1 MP game when Dom3 first came out, but I havent played since then. So still mp newbie here.

[Aezeal]

I'll play in this one too, I'll play midgard again and I'll try not to make the same mistakes I made last game. As said before I've played 2 games for more than a few turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif so the other 2 don't really count.

anyway

Aezeal - Midgard

but don't hesitate with creating a MA game for me & my pythium (last game I saw the effectiveness of communions and I wanna play with it too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

[Ghill]

I would like to play Patala.

I have not yet played a full game, ever, and am a newbie to the whole online scheme. Where would I go to get the Worthy Heroes mod? Also, is this a 3.14 patch game?

Edit: Almost forgot, is this a PBEM or a server game?

[Cerlin]

im not a total noob but im not that great either, if you need another id like to try.
Pythium or agartha would be cool for me.
how long is the hosting?

[OoohSnap]

I'd like to sign in as Man.

I haven't got a lot of MP experience. I was in 2 games, just finished with one of them.

[nozshand]

i'd like to take pythium, only had 2 MP experience

[llamabeast]

Wow, this is crazy! The games are filling up as fast as I can make them.

I'm afraid the following players didn't squeeze in:
Donny (being as you got in on FruitBat)
Cerlin
OoohSnap
nozshand

However, I think I'll make yet another game shortly, this final one will be an MA game and will be named after yet another kind of bat. You four will have priority if you'd like to play in it.

Those who are in the game: I have to head out now, but when I get back I'll post instructions on uploading your pretenders, and give a link to the mod.

Zenzei - why would you prefer no mod? Worthy Heroes isn't overpowering or anything, but just makes getting a hero a little more exciting (in the base game they are sometimes completely pointless).

[meister_miagi]

I'd like to take Pythium instead, if it's not too late.

[Zenzei]

why would you prefer no mod?



Never mind, I'm cool with the mod as I just found out that I can easily switch it off from the game menu (I haven't used mods before), should I want to play another game simultaneously that doesn't use the said mod. At first I thought it would be an awful hassle to enable/disable the mods all the time from the game directory but since that's not the case, I have no problem with Worthy Heroes.

[llamabeast]

Nice.

I was just wondering if anyone in this game would like to switch to GhostBat, the MA game? The reason being that there is a player who would like to be in a newbie game, but can't be in the MA one as his son is also playing in it, and they'd get a CD key clash.

[llamabeast]

Okay guys, here's how to upload your pretender:

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'VampireBat' in the subject line of your e-mail

Take a little time to think about your pretender. I'll aim to start the game in a day or so.

I'll also add a link to Worthy Heroes to the first post, and add the map as an attachment.

[Ghill]

Okay, I am having trouble with the mod. How do you put it in the game? Do you have to drag it in one of the folders or what?

[Karlem]

Unzip it in mods folder and then in preferences activate it.

[llamabeast]

Yep. Actually in this case you don't even need to activate it since it doesn't affect pretender design, although you will need to have it in your mods folder in order to play your turns once we start.

[Ghill]

Okay, I got the updates and the mod in, and I sent my pretender!

Also, llamabeast, could you tell me if you got my pretender? My e-mail has been screwy and I am not sure it actually sent.

[Zenzei]

Pretender sent!

[James243]

At work - will send my ortender this evening EST. Sorry for the delay. I think I have figured out all the mods though. Cheers James

[llamabeast]

To see which pretenders have been received, check out the website at www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) . Yours has, Ghill. It should have sent you an e-mail to that effect too, hopefully.

[Karlem]

Just Arcos and Pythium missing, come on guys! XD

[James243]

Arcos is in - sorry for the delay!

[Zenzei]

Looks like all pretenders are in. Let's get this started http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

can we turn graphs off btw? seems nice to me

[llamabeast]

I like graphs. I think people will enjoy having them on.

[Aezeal]

llama ... you are nice for running this server and all... but for the rest you are just NOT working with me here...

Guess I'll have to make the graphs simpler then... if I remove say... 7 players it'll be much better and easier on the eye.

Yeah... one nice ascending red line...

[llamabeast]

Okay, the game's started! The first turn will have 48 hours on the clock in case of difficulties, and subsequent ones will have 24 hours.

How it works is that the server hosts either 24 hours after the last hosting or when everyone's turns are in, whichever is sooner. This means that the hosting time tends to gradually creep forwards. It's important to be aware of that. Remember you can check out the game status at any time at www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net) .

I'd like to ask for a volunteer to admin the game. The admin has to do two things:

1) If a player asks for an extension or anything then do it (provided it's reasonable; a day or two is reasonable, if they are going away for a week they should get a sub). It's super easy via the interface on the website.

2) If the admin gets knocked out of the game, pass the password on to one of the remaining players.

It's a really easy, almost zero-work job, but it keeps me from having to carefully watch 20-odd game threads (which I tried for a bit, and it hurt).

Right, enjoy the game guys!

[James243]

Sounds great - thanks for running this Llamabeast!

[Aezeal]

So just so I know,
1 who is the admin?
2 Can the admin see my turn if he has evil intentions?

[Aezeal]

A round has been played I can't wait to get home to review the turn...

I wonder what my SC will be able to conquer next turn...

As soon as I've seen my neighbours I'll want to have some good talks about borders and to settle things like.. are we enemies or not.. you know the basics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I can say that all but one will be able to get a NAP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif last one to buy-in looses on that one and I think that will be ... less wanted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

SO.. don't hesitate to contact me and please read your forum messages before sending your turn in.
And remember.. if you are not talking then we can hardly be friends http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[llamabeast]

Aezeal:
1) No-one yet - I hope someone will volunteer! It would be very helpful indeed, and hardly any work.
2) No, I designed it all fairly carefully so the admin can't really do anything naughty. Just about the only bad thing they could do would be to bring the hosting forward so people staled, but that would be completely blatant. Also you can always see all the admin's actions (Admin options -> Show admin log).

[James243]

Ill volunteer to admin. But please everyone be patient. I have a long hours job and will need a good amount of notice if you need anthing done. As in a few days notice. But I'm very fair and honest and ill do my best. Llama can you email me what I need to do? Wish me luck! Game great fun so far btw.

[Aezeal]

Ehm my long hours job is the reason I'm not volunteering..

If someone needs an extention in a 24 h quickhost game you can't predict that a few days ahead. How will you be able to arrange things like that?

[James243]

Fair point Aezeal.

Ok, on thinking about this further:

I can check this forum and llamaserver a few times each day from work (and at home in the US east coast evening). If people can give notice of delays on this forum then I think I'll be fine to admin.

Unfortunately I can't check my email from work. But provided notice is given to me through this forum then it should be fine.

I'll *try* to check the forum as close as possible to the hosting time. Obviously the vagaries of the rolling clock will prevent this sometimes! I guess my caveats were just trying to make sure people give good notice of any delay requirements. In saying 'a few days notice' I figured most delays would be people going away for a weekend - that kind of thing right?

Hope that helps. I'm obviously not the ideal candidate (no-one would be) but I want to take the load off llamabeast.

One crazy idea: can we just give everyone admin privileges? Let everyone just delay the turn if they need?

[Zenzei]

One crazy idea: can we just give everyone admin privileges? Let everyone just delay the turn if they need?



Actually, I think this isn't such a bad idea provided no one decides to be a jerk with the admin rights and if someone delays they should mention about it in this thread.

[Aezeal]

I can check this forum and llamaserver a few times each day from work (and at home in the US east coast evening). If people can give notice of delays on this forum then I think I'll be fine to admin.

--> this should more than suffice though

[Aezeal]

Turn 4 my income is down a lot.. I see not order scales..

is this the same for everyone?

[meister_miagi]

Yes same here, my order Scales disappeared.

[James243]

Hmm...could be! But I'm too much of a n00b to have noticed!

Actually, on that topic (vaguely) - I'm very amenable to tips and thoughts etc, particularly after this game's conclusion (or perish the thought, my earlier defeat...). Please don't hold back - criticisms welcome.

[llamabeast]

Sounds like the scales bug. It will be fixed in the next patch. Apparently it's a new bug in the current patch and strikes very often.

[Aezeal]

James.. just ask who knows who will answer.. your enemies might have enemies too who might like it if you performed a bit better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif...

[James243]

Or perhaps my neighbors will give bad advice... :/

[Aezeal]

well you can think about the advice too.. and see who gives it

[Zenzei]

Aezeal said:
I can check this forum and llamaserver a few times each day from work (and at home in the US east coast evening). If people can give notice of delays on this forum then I think I'll be fine to admin.

--> this should more than suffice though



I agree.

[Ghill]

Wow, order scales bug? I don't have order so I didn't notice.

On a seperate note, are there any player-rules I should know about for this game? Like the "Don't use 20 nukes on my base" rule in C&CGen? I don't want to use any everybody-kill-Ghill-now tactics...

[James243]

Lol... I have order but hadn't noticed.
So

[Zenzei]

Personally, I view copying Bogus' groups "attack commanders" orders to your commanders as pretty cheap as well as scripting a battlemage to cast mist of deception -> wrathful skies -> retreat (this combination can't be beaten in combat and is considered to be a bug by the devs). Aside those two, anything goes.

[llamabeast]

Yep, just those that Zenzei said.

[James243]

Phew...what a squeaker! I sent in my turn file with 20 minutes to go, and with 8 minutes to go I got a message saying I'd sent the wrong turn file. Got the right one in with 3 to go...phew...

Part of this is my new use of Windows Vista. When I browse to find the save game files, their in a new type of folder class called 'compatibility files' which seem to be a sort of hidden folder type. I've unhidden all folders and file types, but anyway my hotmail can't see them, and they include the save games folder in dom3. So i have to go in, copy the save game file to a folder that hotmail can see, and then do the upload. Anyone else encountered this? Anyway, needless to say I copied the wrong file this morning. I'm sure I'll love vista once i'm used to it, but in the meantime...

[James243]

PS: lol - i now have the admin password, so i guess i could have delayed the turn! anyway, i can now do so now, so let me know if you need delays etc.

[Aezeal]

So people what is happening on the map.
I have only seen 2 of you so far on the map, pythium and mictlan.. I'm wondering who the rest of my neighbours are.. guess I'll need a few more scouts. Once I meet any of you expect a private message.

[Ghill]

I only just ran into Zenzei(Ulm), I am still kinda pinned down right by my home.

[Zenzei]

Aezeal said:
...I'm wondering who the rest of my neighbours are.. guess I'll need a few more scouts...


You can never have enough scouts. Knowledge is power, as they say.

In addition, I think it's fair to announce that during the seventh month of the ascension wars naga lords of Patala and Iron Council of Ulm have signed a non-aggression pact. May this truce be long and prosperous!

[meister_miagi]

The Nation of Midgard caught us by surprise and attacked Pythiums home province. Luckily they couldn't get past our well trained province defence.

[Ghill]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHS! I need to scout better. I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw Karlem(mictlan) one shot from my home province! How many provinces are there per player again?

[Aezeal]

Yeah I forgot about 25 home prov PD... well you wanted war and I'm not backing down http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Ghill]

Who wants a war? I don't remember calling a war yet!

[meister_miagi]

No he was talking to me (Pythium). I didn't want a war, I was just upset after seeing your army bordering my capitol, there is no way I would have let you keep that province. I hope you have some kind of poison antidote, because my Hydras are coming for you.

[Aezeal]

Yeah but so far they only poisoned your own archer last battle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Anyway I DO have some kinda of poison antidote http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif but for a total of 3 hydra's I won't need that yet...

As of last turn I'll be recruiting a draconian/turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and very convieniently they have 45 hp AND 100% poison immunity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and they FLY http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

Hehe.. that was .. they first hydra... if you wanna trade all those hydra's 1-1 against my skinshifters then simple math and economics says... you'll loose 10x the gold I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif or something like that.

[Ghill]

Wow, I am pinned in my little clump of provinces already... Time for some 'divine' intervention, if you catch my drift.

Note, that was a generic non-war inducing threat.

[Aezeal]

Meister you could ask for peace before it's too late... first hand me back the provinces I had and then we can talk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Hi all,

Meister Miagi has asked that I delay hosting of turn 11 by 24 hours. So once 10 is in (going to go play my turn now) I'll delay hosting on 11.

Just a heads up.

Cheers,

James.

[Aezeal]

The Meister is getting scared I think... a day extra won't save you... for the losses you gave me I'll take back all lands I had.. then we can talk.. I wanted to talk before you attacked me.. heck I'd probably have made some trade for that province next to your capitol.. but you said no talks.. so we'll go back to where we where then, and provided I don''t suffer any major losses anymore we'll talk about hwo to settle this and what you will do to make amends for the fine young healthy midgardian troops (they where married too.. I have to pay the widows and orfans for years now) you have slain in your violent conquest.

[Zenzei]

Breaking news on the Magic Channel

-Jomon is the first nation to build a second fortress! Will this resource boost give the samurai warlords edge in army construction?

-Patala hits the gem vein! Patala's site searchers have recently found a massive gem producing site or several smaller ones, a big increase in ritual magic and in item construction is expected.

-Titans are on the edge! Feelings are heating up between the two largest nations, Mictlan and Ulm, over a border dispute. Will this incident escalate into full scale war or can the situation be resolved peacefully?

-Vanheim is massing troops! Could this be a bad sing for the neighboring nations?

Stay tuned for more!

-Al Khazim, From the Lamp

[Aezeal]

Lol 2 be honest my "massed troops" are 40 merc barbs (usefull) and 60 militia (Hell I didn't know that the cityguard sucked so much I never use them in SP) I expect them both to die quickly.. so have no fear.

The 60 militia will be send against armoured indie knights soon (they'll have some back up) If they can save the lives of 6 skinshifters they will have payed themselves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

The barbs are indeed going to a neighbour they are going to slaughter 2 hydra's and 6 hydra hatchlings if they do not move out of my way FAST. (but details on that are in my post above http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[Aezeal]

PS with the delay in hosting I MIGHT have a problem with rutn 12.. so please don't host it till I have played my turn (I might not be able to play a turn between wednesday 12:00 and thursday 18:00) so maybe just extend it in advance

[James243]

To keep thing simple ill delay turn twelve by 24 hours.

[Aezeal]

I see turn 11 is still not hosted.. Í'll be home withing 24 hours so no need to delay the turn anymore for me.. but I guess the quickhost will take care of it (if the rest of you keep up) but thanks anyway I'd hate to loose a turn now.

[James243]

Ok there will be no delay to turn 12. Hoping miagi gets 11 in.

[meister_miagi]

I just got back from my trip and turned in turns 11 and 12. Too bad both Mictlan and Midgard have now sorrounded my capitol, looks like I won't last too long in thsi game.

[Aezeal]

WTF mictlan? I need to get home soon.

[James243]

Sorry guys but I can't get my turn 12 in on time. Just delayed hosting by 12 hours. In reality I should only be a few hours late. Thx!

[Aezeal]

hmm 2 bad I'd like to do the next turn.. I have a very nice province. A dragon mountain and a sagesguild... nice for research http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

7 RP for 100 gc beat that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zenzei]

It seems christmas is early this year as the new patch definitely gives LA Ulm some new options. I'm pleased. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Aezeal]

do you ahve 7 RP for 100 gc.. if not then I'm the man this turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

Meister that hurts please do not move more into my territory or I will have to try and stop you. Maybe try and defend your capitol?

[Ghill]

I feel like Canada...

[Ghill]

Ignore this post...

[Aezeal]

no I will remember it forever

[Karlem]

Trade!!!!

Now that everyody seems to have clear borders (sorry Meigi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) I would be interested in trade. I have the following extra gems:

32 Air
8 Earth

I want to trade them for Fire, Death or Nature gems in a ratio to be negotiated. I'm more interested in death ones. So if you have extra gems of this kind we can have a deal.

Also I'm interested in a dwarven hammer. If you can create it please tell me your price, be it gemms, blood slaves, magical objects, gold or a combination of those. We can negotiate an agreement.

Karlem

[Aezeal]

I could create it in a few turns.. but I'm short on earthgems and would need to put all my research into it.. and I would have to make my pretender do this rather menial job... of course for the right price....

PM me if interested

[Ghill]

Goods for trade...

gold
10 fire gems
7 air gems

I need nature gems! will trade for them!

[Zenzei]

Trading season continues!

In their dark halls, where words are only whispered lest they awake some ancient powers, black priests of Ulm have learned of these items called Dwarven Hammers. Indeed, Ulm would like to have one or two of these hammers. In exchange, Ulm can give nature gems or forge astral/death/nature items for you.

Any nation that sees the wisdom in working with the mighty nation of Ulm should send their messengers to Black Forest, so we can sort out the details of the trade.

[Aezeal]

Isn't Ulm THE nation to have these in the first place?

[Zenzei]

In the middle age, sure. Not so much in the late age though.

[Aezeal]

Last updated at 17:55 GMT on Monday March 10th.
Current time: 19:51 GMT

normally it updates every minute.. does this mean my turn won't be accepted either?

(I've gotten no mail and usually that is here too in less than a minute)

--> I do hope this won't mean I'm missing a turn

[Karlem]

Seems that here is some kind of problem with the llamaserver mail server. I've tried to send another version of my turn and I've not received it.... 4 hours later ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ghill]

It won't take my turns either. Could we delay the timer so that this could get fixed? It might have something to do with the patch...

[Aezeal]

since it doesn't mail it probably won't do next turn eitehr.. and I doubt our admin will be able to reach the server to change stuff.. but yeah.. if possible plz set the timer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Sure i'll go delay now - sorry, read the forum... Assuming i can.

Ok, just postponed hosting by 24 hours. Please everyone get in their turn quicker than that though (I assume they are actually all in).

[llamabeast]

The server had got turned off (a fuse blew earlier in the day), but it's back on again now.

[Zenzei]

Ok, just postponed hosting by 24 hours. Please everyone get in their turn quicker than that though (I assume they are actually all in).



Llamaserver is back online so there's no need for the hosting delay.

[Aezeal]

Wow, arco is a NAP breaker who'd have guessed. If some one is attacking arco elsewhere prepare to get some help.. or if someone thinks arco has nice lands.. join in on the fun

[James243]

Lol...that sure sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. I had to attack someone and when you offered peace in exchange for a PROVINCE I figured it might as well be you! And you're leading the game right now so figured you needed some attacking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Anyway game on, good luck etc! And anyone who wants to join on my side please do!

[Ghill]

I feel all boxed in! three nations on my boarders and only one province left to expand to!

[Zenzei]

I believe pretty much all independents are conquered by now, so naturally pressure for war increases. I wouldn't be surprised if another war started in addition to one between Arco & Midgård.
In any case it will be interesting to see who decides to duke it out with whom.

[Aezeal]

I'm willing to offer lands of arco if pplz help me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
But really the armies he's invading me with should be dead in 3 turns. Much units.. but weakish.. nothing compared to my einheres and skinshifters etc

[James243]

Oh probably...maybe...I've never even heard of skinshifters or einheres to be honest. Whatever the outcome I'm loving this game!

Hmmm...and I wouldn't deign to 'offer' lands, but if you want to gnaw on Aezeal's carcass then feel free!

[Aezeal]

Well NAP-breaker... you'll hear of them soon, right before you hear their axes crushing through the skulls of your minions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

I'm feeling generous,

Leaders of Arco, I appreciate the fact you have not invaded my lands further in turn 18, if you have kept that wise course in turn 19 I have the following offer... Leave my province you have captured (or if you invaded the next province, leave them both) and surrender one of your own border provinces and then I can accept a new NAP.

Your decision.

[James243]

Wow, you sure are generous. I do like your strategy though - conquer the world by offering peace in exchange for province! Genius. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Uh, no thanks.

C'mon Patala - don't be our first stale turn!

[Zenzei]

Here's a random thought I just had. It would be nice if players could share some details about their most awesome battles, cunning plans, greatest successes, catastrophic failures etc when they are eliminated from the game. I think it would make a great reading, both fun & useful for learning the game. Of course this doesn't mean players shouldn't brag about their exploits while they are still in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ghill]

Okay, because I think I am probably one of the weakest nations in the game I am going to share my grand strategy!!!

Here it is (drumroll)...TA DA!

Don't die.

[Aezeal]

hmm all my neighbours are warring me.. my plan is to not die but it might be a little difficult.

My most awesome battle was against my most trusted ally (accident, no betrayal like arco) and cost me a rather substantial army (I didn't even win)

Arco and Jomon are teaming up against me so their southern neighbours would be wise to take advantage once my corner is conquered they will have to go your way anyhow so better team up with me now before they hvae my lands and income.

[James243]

Ok, there's something serious I don't understand...

Aezeal (bless his little socks) invaded me. And my province defense defended but my army didn't. He of course beat my province defense.

Why didn't my army fight?!

PS: Nice one Jomon!

[Zenzei]

@James: Was your army set on defend or patrol? If their orders were to defend, then they didn't fight with the PD because they were garrisoning the castle. If they were on patrol, they should have fought with the PD.

Jomon has this stack o' troops on my border. I hope they aren't planning to do something rash, suicidal even. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

Well Jomon has an army on my border too.. probably just managable though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif the fact I'm busy with arco is a lil hassle but since even his army + pretender + a ****load of mages didn't give him much more kills than my army did I''m not so impressed with him..

still it's 3 on one (I was already in a skirmish with pytium before traitor arco broke his NAP (Jomon hasn't attacked yet and is honoring his NAP and our break-up agreement I would like to mention) So a bit of help for the little guy in the northwest corner would be appreciated..

Zenzei kill Jomon since he can only focus half (probably less) of his strenght on you.. you should be able to damage him and take lands.. You can have his capitol if we destroy him and put equal effort into it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Karlem]

Change hosting interval for the holidays?

Hi,
Could we increase the hosting interval for this week to 48 hours, or if possible from now on? I have to do lots of micromanaging (I have a love/hate relatioship with blood economy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) and I do not have plenty of time right now. Of course with quickhost enabled we can run them faster if we can but I have a lot of pressure right now to test the tactics and such on time.
What do you think?
Karlem

[Zenzei]

I'm ok with 48h hosting should majority of players want it but I'd personally like to stick with 24h hosting as long as possible.

@Karlem: Testing tactics is overrated. It's much more fun to just script in game and watch the results, victories taste better and defeats are even more bitter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ghill]

let us just go for 48 hours. We would probably be quickhosting alot anyway, and I am starting to get nervous about the game hosting before I can get to the computer!

Attention all people that have a NAP agreement with Patala, I am officialy moving the time to a three turn wait, so I can remember what is going on!

[Aezeal]

24 hours with extension if needed would be best for me but if it has to be 48.. well then it's 48

[Aezeal]

I think at least one of my armies should win next turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
either jomon or arco should get heavy losses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. they are trying to pass my natural borders now so my men will fight extra hard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Let's see if you dare siege me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

(I guess this will buy me some extra time, arco is a cowardly traitor so I guess I should be able to recruit some extra troops to destroy that MANTICORE pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[Zenzei]

Ghill: "I am officialy moving the time to a three turn wait, so I can remember what is going on!" I'm not sure I'm following what you mean by this, could clarify a bit?

[James243]

Sounds like a number of people would prefer 48 hours, me included. Since we have quickhost I'm going to make the change. Don't want turns to become a chore particularly with so much to do,and don't want battles decided because someone missed a turn. We can discuss going back to 24 after the holidays.

[Aezeal]

He means that all his NAP's now include the agreement that when one or the other cancels the NAP you are agreeing to not attack eachother for 3 turns..

Of course.. I had that agreement with arco and he just attacked me without any warning...
so it's not worth that much when treating with scum... but Jomon did follow his 2 turn NAP cancel agreement. I'm sorry to say though that Jomon's army will probabaly suffer most next turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and I have some other surprises for him...

Bye Jomon.. I'd rather destroyed arco.. traitor as he is but since you had to team up with him I fear you will get the worst of it...

[Karlem]

Well, Arcos should watch his back because in this game keeping the word is quite important. In general agreements are kept and things not carried over one game to the other except for those smalls things like knives on the back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zenzei]

Oh mighty game admin and the master of the turn timer, could you play your turn soon, please? Pretty please. I'm dying to play my next turn as fast as humanly possible because it'll likely be such an exciting turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

Guess which traitor is down 8 commanders AND a lost his 4E4A manticore...

YES my friends... it's time to pick the bones of arco.. lost his army, lost his SC pretender..

move in for the kill before he has it revived

(does the limp stay if he gets back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[James243]

Oh really? Bummer... Oh well, knew it was a risk. Well fought!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Aezeal]

sorry.. but your pretender wasn't the only one with blade wind..

one of my mages cast one in the end... when most of your troops where gone and it killed like 5 of your mages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

your pretender died from normal troops.. you'll see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zenzei]

Did we just get our first stale turn(s)? Looking at the timer it looks like last turn was hosted because time was up.

[Karlem]

Yes, I staled. My sub didn't work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

But I'm back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Do we go back to 24h or keep it at 48? (or something in the middle?). 48h is ok for me but 36 too, just not having the stress to have to do the turn ASAP just when it arrives http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Aezeal]

for the next days I need 48, but I'll try to get it ASAP anyway

[Aezeal]

So lets get it on the table.. who are all attacking Jomon atm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Karlem]

Just a note, the system is waiting for a turn from Pytium. It is a "know bug" of the llamaserver, after a player is vanquished the system waits for a last turn. So, if everybody sends the turn before deadline and Pythium doesn't the moderator could force it to run.

[Zenzei]

who are all attacking Jomon atm


*Raises hand* Well this isn't much of a secret because I think by now every other nation has seen Ulmish troops sieging that Jomon castle. If you have a scout in the area, tune in for a show for I predict there will be quite a battle soon enough.

[James243]

Oh dear... Pythium is extinct? Do I need to do something as admin? Let's stick with 48 hours for a bit. I'm not attacking jomon. Contrary to my reputation I'm loyally allied to him. Need help down south jomon? Out of curiosity if I relieved that siege would that count as me attacking jomon? Don't worry... I probably won't... Probably... Need my god back before I do anything - thanks aezeal!

[Aezeal]

See an allaince between 2 nations.. whoever is not attacking jomon should take down arco!!!

anyway can you do your turn plz James and Ulm to and then move the turn ahead? I'd be nice if I could see our next turn within the next 4 hours (2hours before it hosts)

as said above if it's only pyth then James can move it manually

[Aezeal]

Just waiting for arco now.. another reason to attack him.. don't hold back

[James243]

Bad luck pythium - good game - I think in games like this you can just be unlucky and be cornered in or picked on early. Any ever play diplomacy? Used to happen in that all the time.

Just played my turn. When the server figures it out (seems to only update every 5 mins or so) i'll resolve the turn.

[Zenzei]

Heh, I was just about to go to bed but now I must see the next turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Karlem]

Raises hand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Seems that I am also attacking Jomon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

At the end it seems that everything is decided by diplomacy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I'm not sure if I like that.

[Aezeal]

Pythium really had himself to blame after a few turns he hand't taken a prov near his capitol (mistake 1)
I took it not knowing he was next to it. and then he reacted violently when I said we might find a solution for it later (mistake 2)

And then I saw he was next to mictlan and got him to help me (mistake 3 for not getting that NAP sooner http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[Karlem]

I had a similar problem with Patala but we spoke and found a good solution so we are now good neighbours. Also with Ulm. Basically speaking is the only way to friendship.

[Wazooking]

I probably wont have internet until sunday night. Anyone object to delaying the turn timer until then?

[Aezeal]

Well I needed someone to attack anyway so after he started I just tried to NAP the rest and take him out.

[Karlem]

Sunday night? Can't you find a sub? Or do it today?

[Karlem]

Bythine.- Field of death

On the field of Bythine two great armies confronted. In one side Jomon, with 127 men and 6 commander 2 of which were able to cast the cursed spell Bladewind. In the other side the sacred troops of Mictlan with 151 men and 5 commanders.

The combat was terrible. The bladewinds decimated Mictlan, many died due to its effect. 5 times the Jomon mages hurled deadly rocks on Mictlan Jaguar Warrior and each time it seemed that the world was coming to an end. However the courage remained and no Jaguar Warrior retreated.

The advancement of Mictlan troops was fast and soon we meet in close combat with those so called Samurai warriors. At that moment it was obvious that on 1-1 no man was a match for the sacred warriors of Mictlan. The samurais died by dozens under the swords and claws of Mictlan.

At the end Mictlan won the battle and keept the field. The losses were tremendous 95 Jomon warriors and its profet in one side and 77 sacred Micltan warriors in the other side.

At the same time 2 other battles were fought and Mictlan won them againt local troops without practically any loss, Jomon deafeat approached.

[James243]

Ill delay till Sunday night. Only a couple of days and I haven't turned down anyone elses request. And in my mind this is meant to be a slow game with lots of thinking time.

[James243]

Just put in the delay. Only amounted to 24 hours. Aezeal, I wonder if our conflict has cost us the game and given it to ulm? Oh well... Been fun anyway! Ill certainly be back for more and yes I now understand the importance of naps!

[Aezeal]

For me attacking Jomon would have been much better.. for you too I think since we only have one province where we meet, both castles there so no way to take lands easily.. If I hadn't had problems with Jomon you'd have lost though.. since I only use 50 % of my resources on you.

Now I'm having some problems expanding cus I have two persons to war with

You could turn on Jomon in the south, I'd give you a new NAP and then I could take on Jomon for real near our castles...

let me know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Zenzei]

[darth vader]NOOOOOOOoooooooo!cos(0)!!11![/darth vader]

On the fields of Borale a great battle was fought today and stakes were high: continued existence of Jomonese people. Jomon army was impressive, samurais numbered in hundreds, and they were commanded by their master lich false god. On the other side were armies of Ulm, vast numbers of rangers and creatures of night totaling about twice the size of Jomon army. Ulm was commanded by no other than Ixil, the dreaded Prince of Death who holds crushing grip over will of the living and unliving alike. At his side was Burchard Nachtzehrer, the legendary vampire general of the Great Keep, who was ready to unleash the power of blood to the heathens (Burchard's entourage of 20 blood slaves was freshly collected from the previous Jomon province of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ).

As the battle started Jomon formed a communion lead by the master lich Shek-Dimmu and archers fired at the ranks of Ulm. Samurais stood still, waiting for the command to attack. In return Ulmish troops advanced and Blood Marshal started to evoke the blood magic. Then, despite of all the careful planning and anticipation, the unthinkable happened : Ixil failed to call upon the power of the underworld, which was meant to Dust to Dust the master lich and end the fight before it started. After that Shek-Dimmu initiated the dreaded mind duel and actually beat the Prince of Death. This was the crucial moment.

With the their god gone, Ulmish troops were no match for the highly skilled samurais, while Shek-Dimmu was raining fire on them. Ulm suffered massive defeat and the hundred or so survivors retreated to the safety. And so the siege of Borale was ended before it started.

------

This battle was more or less a slaughter of my troops, which I could hardly watch. I think my initial plan to Dust to Dust Jomon pretender before the mind duel (I knew it was coming) was sound because without the lich Jomon would have stood no chance against my army. Heck, I'm certain my pretender could have taken the remaining troops alone, I just wanted to maximize Jomon casualties before mass routing. Anyway, my PoD refused to cast the said spell(probably because of range) even though I had calculated the distance in army placement screen. So into mind duel we proceed, which I lost. However there's more to this one. I was ready to take the mind duel because to my knowledge my pretender was equal to Jomon's in astral power , so 50% chance of winning was good enough for me to take the risk. As winning would have meant wiping Jomon out of the game. BUT Jomon had just empowered his pretender on the previous turn just for this purpose, so he had an advantage on the duel (big props to Wazooking for this one, it certainly paid off for him this time). With my god dead I stood no chance and lost, end of story.
Annoying side fact: Jomon archers were extremely happy to target my blood slaves in this battle regardless of abundance of other targets. Needless to say my blood magic didn't work out as well as I had planned either.


------


@James243: I think you have misanalyzed the power relations of nations or had insufficient intel available. Mictlan has huge lead in this game. And to be perfectly honest now that I failed to capture Jomon capital I don't think I can challenge Mictlan later on. I've had a nice research boost lately but I don't seem to be able to catch Karlem. In addition I'm going to suffer a big reduction in power because of the failed war effort, while he powers up even more. And my analysis of other nations (may be wrong of course) is following: Jomon is wrecked because of the multifront war. Patala is boxed in pretty badly and has fallen behind in research. Marignon is too small and too far away to challenge Mictlan (also falling behind in research atm). Arco is same as Marignon but even more behin d in research. Midgård has good research but is small and has quite likely big upkeep problems. Mictlan is #1 in territoty, forts, income & research, which is pretty back breaking. In addition his army is small but efficient and has low upkeep. Plus he is gathering SCs. Mictlan also has good gem income and blood income, which doesn't even show in the graphs.

So if things continue on their current course I'm rather certain Mictlan will simply win by a large margin. If a large alliance against Mitclan suddenly forms, I will join to it in order to make things a bit more interesting but not before my NAP with Karlem honorably expires. Otherwise I will continue to maintain status quo and entertain any army invading Ulm, which makes Mictlan even stronger. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Wow, that was quite a long post. I wonder how many grammar/thought errors I made there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

EDIT: I almost forgot: Jomon, I'm still coming for you!

[James243]

Wow . This is my first game and posts like this make me realise just how much I don't know. Things like measuring spell ranges etc. I think I've botched the game so far only aided by a convenient mountain range for defense. My war against marignon has tied up or killed most of my research staff. And my armies are big so I'm guessing my upkeep is bad. I've read the manual cover to cover but still coming to terms with translating the concepts to the game. Still trying to figure out how to improve mages and what is an efficient use of their time eg make item or research . But hey even with my bad understanding I'm having a blast so I guess it just gets better!

[Karlem]

Fantastic report Zenzei!

Just as a note: Dust to dust with 1 mage? Did you check it in SP? Ithas an awfull precision son it is better to have it casted multiple times by small boys than a pretender. Also I do not understand why Jomon leaded a communion for the mind duel. Did you know that the communion bonus is not added to the S level for astral? you only use innate bonus, not even items.

********

Regarding the power relations I do not think I am so ahead. Until ths turn I had less research than Midgard and this can change easily taking into consideration the number of forts we all have (we are tied with 4!). You had very bad research and see now where you are!

I have more provinces because you were figthing Jomon in the south and he had his main armies there, now I think that I will be punished by him and it will probably hurt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Nothing is decided yet.

Of my 2 thugs (well at leat I think they are thugs, not SCs, your god is an SC, this are thugs) one died last turn. The wonderful fire bless bug converted my frost brand in a one shot weapon and the poor boy was anihilated by the samurai warriors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif .

So well I really think that this game still has many things to say: I just watched recent Midgard fight and I have to admit that I was impressed. However Jomon will probably take care of his upkeep problem soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (if he has it).

BTW I knew there should be an explanation to your drop in army size.

[Zenzei]

@James: Haha. I'm by no means an expert player myself but I do have read some stuff in these boards. Most notably reports like I just wrote and nation guides (I especially recommend those written by Baalz, I find them fundamentally educating). The spell range calculation was pretty extreme for me too, I certainly don't do it normally, but this battle was so important I wanted to have every advantage I could think of.

For upkeep my own rule thumb is as long as your upkeep is less than ~40% of your total income, you're doing great. More than that and you're starting to have increasing trouble getting money for new forts/temples/labs or replacing those that got destroyed. Of course sometimes, most notably during war, you just need those troops and upkeep gets high but that's the time you save gold in other pursuits.

For research/battle I aim to have as low number of mages in the battlefield as humanly possible to minimize the research loss but I usually make those mages count. In battle a single power mage is way stronger than dozen crappy ones imo. Also, use the most cost effective mages for research, that is the one with the lowest cost/upkeep/research value ratio, because it saves money in the long run. For any particular mage I consider this ratio good if it is equal or less than 0.8. For example EA Ermor Augur Elder has cost of 250 gold, upkeep 16.7 gold/turn (250/15) and base research value of 8 iirc. So for him the ratio is ~2.1, not very good. However he is very good battle mage/item forger/ritual caster so you should use him for more those kind of tasks and less on research. EA Ermor also has Flamen 120 gold, upkeep 4 gold, research value 4 sacred mage. His ratio is exactly 1, which is not super but way better than the Elder for research job, no? If you took magic scale 1, the Flamen's ratio improves to the target number of 0.8.

For mage improvement find ways to create magic path boosters(for ritual caster and later on for battle casters) and use booster spells in battle (summon earth/phoenix/storm etc power). They make a huge difference in mage perfomance. I hope some of this was helpful and not some crystal clear rambling. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I 110% agree with you that the better understanding of the game you have, the more enjoyable it becomes.

@Karlem: Glad you found it a good reading.
I ran some simple tests in SP and Dust to Dust worked fine then. My PoD has a pretty good precision and there's no way a master lich can survive 22+ damage, no MR, armor negating punch if it hits. You're right about more death mages being more safe choice but I don't have so many of them to begin with and moving them to front lines would have taken many turns, more time was something I didn't want to give to Jomon. Afterall I got this master idea just previous turn when I was brainstorming ideas for how to bybass the mind duel. The communion Jomon had was for Power of the Spheres to boost the slaves so they could throw Blade Wind, it wasn't important for the duel itself. Now that I think more carefully the master lich's levels were in fact boosted by the spell and not by empowering, so a slight error on my report there. This means my loss in the mind duel is even more bitter but now I do get to erase the props I gave to Wazooking earlier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Yep, I know mind duel is only affected by base astral skill, can't speak for Jomon though.

My prediction about Midgård upkeep is based on the fact Aezeal advertised having found a sage guild some time ago in this thread. Midgård has pretty horrible national mages for research but sages have high research. If he has bought a lot of sages, it would explain his great research accumulation but sages are pretty high upkeep mages (and therefore not very cost effective), which would translate into money issues. Especially so because Midgård has had its share of conflicts and province losses, which have reduced Midgård's income. It would actually be pretty interesting to know if Aezeal could confirm whether or not my theory is correct.

[Karlem]

Did Jomon use Reverse comunions? That must be nasty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I was on the received end of 5 bladewinds so 4-8 mages casting it will be... ufff.... I cannot think a word bad enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[James243]

Thanks so much for the tips - much appeciated. This is a beginner game so half the point is to teach and learn. So please, any tips welcome!

[Aezeal]

Personally I wonder why I keep loosing so much troops every time.. I'm loosing much more troops each battle than I expected. But soon my mages will be even better (Jomon beware http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif) since I just researched storm power and I think I will just have to keep on buying troops to replace losses.

PS Arco how much PD was that.. it killed 40 of my troops because I didn't expect it to be there but there where LOADS of troops, must have cost you a fortune???

Bladewind is nasty I lost my bladewinder and haven't gotten a new one yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

My research is indeed due to sages and I have upkeep problems as you mention Zenzei HTF do you know the upkeep of troops? currently I can't train much troops if I train 2 mages and a sage.. then again.. 2 mages a turn are reasonably powerfull atm and can each kill dozens of troops with only little protection http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and I don't think my upkeep is more than 40% of total income btw

[Wazooking]

I thought that communion might help the mind duel, so I had it scripted first. Either way, it would help after I won the mind duel. I was pretty much thinking the same thing for power of the spheres. If I lost the mind duel, I would totally lose anyways.

As for the dust to dust question, when I look back at the replay, it looks like you are on the order of 35 squares away depending on how it calculates diagonals.

I am not sure what a reverse communion was, but without the PoD, my troops were good enough to mop up.

Mictlan is the front runner. After having faces major armies from 3 nations, I know what the current situation is. Disease Demons are a very good deal on a low gem map.

[Aezeal]

Too many early fights, and a few mistakes have made my game go downwards from the start, I was also a bit cornered in , not so much indies before encountering the rest of you.

Arco and Jomon could send large parts of their armies against me, not to mention pythium who's starting fight with me (for no good reason, just like arco) cost me a lot of army early on... hydra's are just not easy to kill

[James243]

Hmm... 50 province defense? Cost me about 1000 but figured it might hold the province. It saved me when you attacked previously. And the manual says you can't have enough of it. So my pretender came back... Minus a magic level in each school. Are there items or something that can boost it back up? And doesn't the loss of levels argue against rainbow pretenders? A pretender highly skilled in one path suffers less than a rainbow right?

[Aezeal]

hmm lol that makes me happy.. it would have sucked to loose 1000 gold of skinshifters to 25 PD which would have cost only 250 or something. That much PD is hardly ever worth it, though your PD IS rather nice.

Your Pretender is back... I'd keep him away from me right now though,manticore steak is now legendary amongst the skinshifters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Indeed rainbow pretenders suffer more from dying.. but generally you shouldn't let your pretender die at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
you can empower him back or you could use boosters just like normal.

My suggestion though would be to give me that castle you have (it was MY province originally remember) and then NAP me and focus on Marignon. Fighting 2 wars is never good.

[James243]

Hmm... Manticore steak... Actually my whole pretender design was simply what they suggested in the manual. Next time around I'd do my own thing. And sorry but I can't give you that province. And strictly speaking it belonged to some poor independent in the first place. And it has a huge pd so even if I have it to you you'd suffer a lot. But as I'm sure you can see I just don't have the resources to attack you for quite a while. Happy to kick back for a bit right now...

[Aezeal]

As you saw PD dies from thunderstrike really really fast.. and with storm power all galdermen can do thunderstrike http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Boom, Boom, boom... let's just say I wouldn't defend the castle any further http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

I was late for work and didn't have time to watch the battle. On that topic - ice heard people refer to watching old battle replays... Are they saved somewhere?

[Aezeal]

always watch battles, certainly the ones you loose.. how else can you counter it next time?

[Aezeal]

hmmm nice I've gained lands, better strategy, build retrain army and then attack instead of attackign each turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Well a few turns more mages and that PD arco mentioned will be fried http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Ghill]

I am the lord of the seas! Other than that I think I am kinda shot doomed for this game.

[James243]

Yeah I try to watch battles but sometimes I have to race out my turn. Unfortunate but reality of family work etc. So wish I was a student again! Ghill I have a lot of seas too, but they're nerfed in this game right? They don't even have enough resources for the cheapest commander.

[Aezeal]

Unless you peace me soon all you have will be seas... so get used to it

[James243]

I'm so glad were neighbours aezeal! Your "offer peace by threat" strategy has not only been entertaining but also half the reason I haven't followed the doubtless wiser course and actually made peace with you! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Aezeal]

Well I do need to have some advantage from peace since when Jomon is gone I need somewhere to expand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

The fact I'm offering it to you is because I'm such a nice guy.. not because I actually need peace with you at this moment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

PS we are waiting for you stop posting and get the turn through http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Oh, sorry... On my way home from a hockey game of all things... Will try to get it done tonight new York time but certainly in the morning. Aezeal,I'm being quite honest, I don't think this game would have been quite as fun with a different neighbhour. Part of me is now thinking it would be good UN
Training...

[Aezeal]

Hehe I'm so gonna enjoy destroying someone who puts his own pride above the needs of his nation, mr dictator, prepare to go down. And dictators are not allowed in the UN so no good training for you.

People of arcocephale rebel against your egoistic master who sacrifices you for precieved slights against his person.
He has openly admitted rejecting peace offers against his better judgment just because he's to proud to give a conquered province back to it's rightfull owner.

And WORSE: he's slow doing his turn, as if his crumbling empire needs that much management.

PS manticore steak is delicious

[James243]

yikes...touche!

lol... yeah, looks like my goose is cooked...and yes, most of your accusations are probably true! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif There's something about your posting style Aez that brings out a very petty side in me! Ultimately to my detriment, but I daresay also to yours. But early on I saw you as the leader which is why I attacked you in the first place - that was good honest strategic thinking. And we've had some entertaining battles, and I think one of the best things about a game like this is the characters of the players themselves.

Well, like I say, I think Khan'Gar is soon to be off this mortal coil, but it really has been fun!

[Aezeal]

Something about my posting style has that effect on more people.. that is how I splitt the chaff from the grain... or better the truly righteous defenders from tyrants http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I must admit it's also why I get attacked a lot probably but I fear that is the way of the world http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

PS since Khan'Gar is coming northwards as we speak I also think you are trying to position yourself in a underdog position.

Einheres like stake too if patala does the turn we can see who wins... that battle will be close http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif (I can't remember what you had in your castle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[James243]

Well, thanks for being a good sport http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - better than me I fear! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif If I end up losing to you Aezeal then it will have been an honour and it will have been because I was out-thought - I'm impressed at how easily you figured out how to beat my province defense for example http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Can't wait to see this turn...totally forgot (again) to put my defenders on 'patrol' instead of 'defend'. All a good learning experience...

And me trying to be an underdog? Well, maybe... lulling everyone into a true sense of security would be closer to the mark!

[Aezeal]

well I thought the battle against the PD was a disaster really. I lost troops while I wanted the artillery to do the work.. but my troops can't do hold 5x... so I did hold and attack.. which wasn't what I needed for that battle... hope that it'll work better for the next one.

[Aezeal]

/me wants next turn

[Karlem]

Come on Ghill, send your turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ghill]

Sorry about that, I have an RP addicted sibling.

Anyway, I realized recently that this whole 'peace' thing is dangerous for me. While I sit in my tiny little realm all of you fight to the death, and slowly the winners become larger and more powerful! I think that I am gonna get involved pretty soon.

[Aezeal]

I dont'get it how can I have lost that battle against you.. my troops didn't have to do anything.. only 10 mages had to cast thunderstrike 2x.. you shoul've been so dead.. but i've seenonly like... 2-4 thunderstrikes intotal.. wtf is the use of those galdermen if they DO NOT do anything

the spell is friggin range 100.. it should've blasted all your commaders into eternity and your troops even sooner

[James243]

I think you mightve been the victim of the ai thinking my elephants were the bigger threat. And my priestesses were healing them. But don't
Worry... I think it just delayed the inevitable... You basically annihilated my army... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Aezeal]

you HAD no army I did have mages.. well I'm creating more

[James243]

Hey? I had probably 40 troops, mostly heart companions. Not huge but not the usual pd either - those guys can bless and they regenerate. But you can't script your spell targets - I reckon the ai was the issue.

[Aezeal]

yeah I known it was,...but its not only wrong targetting..ustd NOT CASTing

[James243]

At work... Anything interesting happen in the latest turn?

[James243]

Aezeal
, I had a thought... Maybe your mages got fatigued?

[Aezeal]

If they had done their thunderstrikes they sure would have been.. but they didn't do them at all. well only 2

waiting on you James.. and on Ghill.. maybe do 2 turns if you are short in time and are last

[James243]

Who is winning?
Mictlan?

[Karlem]

I do not think you can say who is winning yet. I entered in Jomon's war third and that made my part easier. Also my troops are quite well suited against Jomon tactics however the final battle has not been fought yet.

The provinces statistics don't show everything. I am paying my bless and awake pretender with the awfull scales now and my income is not specially great because of sloth and turmoil. I am good at research but Ulm, Midgard and Marignon too. So I do not think that , as we say here, the fish is already sold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. There are still many big contenders, for example if you loose fast against Midgard or Marignon they will be a super powers with GOOD scales http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. So, lets see, we are still at turn 38.

[Aezeal]

ehm I think mictlan is strongest

but he can have the victory too.. I just want to kill arco now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif I just want to be strong enough so Mictlan doesn''t turn on me or if he does he'll pay enough so others can take him on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif but he should fear me "taking over arco" fast or something.. so far I've not taken anything..

[Karlem]

Aezeal I do not "fear" you, we are allies! We can rule the world together http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Zenzei]

Mwaahaahah, Ixil the Shadow has returned to this world! After all it's quite obvious that minor things like death don't hinder a being such as he. While the true god's command over magic is slightly weaker than before and he is plagued by beings beyond time and space, he hasn't loss a bit of his physical might and will to see all enemies of Ulm to wither and die...slowly and painfully.

Soon the armies of Ulm will march with renewed vigor and this time they will be backed by powers unfathomable to mere mortals.

[Aezeal]

Hey James what happened to your pretender..

I couldn't really follow it he was suddenly gone. If he'd fled he should've been in one if the neighbouring provinces and he wasn't.

Did I soulslay him?? It's the only thing I can think of. Or is he still alive?

[James243]

I have no idea... Even watched the battle twice. Suffice to say that "call god" is now an option... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Aezeal]

must've been soul slay then your 260 hp manticore doesn't die out fo it self

[Aezeal]

and do your turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

/me pushes the dead manticore

HEY, TURN, now!

[James243]

Sigh...

Just done, and relax, i'll do my next turn too...

[James243]

Hmmm...galderman steak isn't bad either...

Wow, you don't have much respect for my PD huh? An invasion force of 2 galdermen?!

[Zenzei]

Heheh, props to Aezeal for boldness regarding his choice of attackers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

well the idea was to scout if you had spend insane amouts of cash on PD there too... which you did.

THe other idea was to
cast mistform (which they did)
then cast a few thunderstrikes (which they did) to kill the lonely troop that was there (if you didn't have PD)

and after 3-5 rounds before your troops could reach them (which they didn't in that time) RETREAT (which they didn't, DAMMIT) the last round, with your troops all around him.. he cast RESIST POISON...

WTF RESIST POISON???

[James243]

The more often I think about this, I think you're the victim of the AI.

I was just reading the FAQ forum, and it says that the AI will ignore scripted commands if, for example, it thinks them wasteful.

The example they give is that if there's a spell, particularly one that uses gems, that can only target a weak target (according to the scripted command) then it'll do something else. Agree, however, that casting resist poison instead wasn't the AI's finest moment, but definitely funny!

Couldn't you have just used a scout to figure out my PD?

And I take it there's no way to arrange your PD - they tend to just make a big blob in the middle which hinders their effectiveness...

[Aezeal]

Well if it was weakly defended 2 galdermen should've conquered it.. that was the idea (I mean they killed at least 20 persons in PD.. not just scouting

[Ghill]

Well...Karlem just declared war on me. Guess it's time to bring out the big guns (and call for divine intervention...

Also, anyone at war with Mictlan, consider me an ally. I will aid any who seek Karlems anihillation.

edit: I am at a relatives, I will probably get my turn in around midnight tonight or early tomorrow.

[James243]

Hmm...did you try to send in your turn Ghill? Hasn't registered.

I guess I seek everyone's annihilation, but I kinda have my hands full with my good friend (and Karlem's) Aezeal...

[Zenzei]

The Iron Council of Ulm has gathered and has come to a conclusion Mictlan's invasion of Patala is too serious threat to world balance. Therefore it has been decided that NAP between Ulm & Mictlan needs to be cancelled. Ulm will honor the expiration perioid though, just like I said I would do in this kind of situation.

Karlem, I sent you a PM regarding this in case you didn't notice my declaration here.

[James243]

hmm... What do othes think of this?

[Aezeal]

well I think it won't stop me killing you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Lol ... Send your army at me - as long as you leave a couple of galdermen to fight mictlan I'm sure you'll be fine... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Aezeal]

Mictlan has enough troubles as is, I'm his ALLY as you might have noticed (but bot bordering ulm or patala so offensive wise I can't do much). I think patala and ulm vs mictlan is a nice background fight while I kill you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

PS Karlem if you need more airgems for brands I'm always happy to help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

PS james do your turn, and the rest too, I want to see a new turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Content to finish second aezeal?

[Karlem]

Well Ulm+Patala is probably enough for me at the same time. Do you want to join James? I have not attacked you only because Aezeal asked me not to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. He wanted you completely for him and we have no past trouble so I did not expect a so bad feeling against me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. Give Zenzei AND Ghill some credit James.

And Aezeal, I always have confirmation of my NAPs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif and if possible reconfirmations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. And yes, we are allies. It's more than a NAP, at least for me, it's a declaration of intentions.

[Aezeal]

lol I'm having fun with you james and after that the game will probably be decided anyway between the 3 pplz with larger armies if they are finished I think the game shouldn't drag on to long.

[James243]

Where are you located aezeal? I'm at work!
But ill do my turn asap. Do you work as a foreman by any chance? You should! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Aezeal]

no I'm a medical docter wanting to be surgeon (hopefully, once upon a time) and I can't even read the forum when I'm at work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I'm in the netherlands btw. 23:20 here.

[Zenzei]

Well well, this game has certainly taken some new twists it seems. Saying I'm excited to see how things play out would be an understatement.

[James243]

Hear hear, zenzei

[Aezeal]

I hope the last 2 turns will be in within the hour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif after that i'm going to sleep http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[James243]

Karlem, I've no intention of attacking you! I'm sure you'd be trembling if I did of course...:D

[Karlem]

Good to know James, good to know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zenzei]

Heh, looks like the list of people who don't want to Karlem to win this game is growing thin, very thin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

-----

Some things I've learned from this game:
-I'll never again take growth scale because I'm blood nation.
-I'll never again take luck scale as any nation (Mictlan being the possible exception).
-I'll never again take Heat3/Cold3 unless my important troops have at least fire/cold resistance 50.
-Beware the NAP trap! I think Patala was the victim of this in this particular game.
-In most cases manual site searching isn't beneficial thing to do. Even in late age where site freq is lower.

[Aezeal]

I know I am

lol that was a reply to James about the trembling

[Karlem]

Zenzei, about the luck thing. I completely disagree. Luck makes turmoil a possitive scale http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

O3L3 is wonderfull too, lots of markets and forts for free. Test it.

H3/C3, well, I allways take H3/C3 if nation has even 1 degree of H or C in its description, however only if the encumbrance of my main units is not high to avoid fatigue.

I like the NAP trap sentence. Quite true.

Manual site searching is usefull in the early game or to begin a new path, otherwise if you have the gems cast remote searchs.

[Zenzei]

Yes, turmoil & luck have an obvious synergy but every time I take the combination it just doesn't seem to work out so well. I think reliableness of order/misfortune is better than randomness of turmoil/luck.
This inspired new words of wisdom:
-Beware the luck scale trap! It tempts you with national heroes and cool events but in the end order prevails. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Order and luck together certainly are nice but you're going to have hard time getting it without going for scales god. I like active pretenders.

[Karlem]

Seems that James was not completely sincere when his wrote his post.... let's see how this evolves but 3 on 1... I now know what Jomon felt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Zenzei]

I, for one, am glad Arco has decided to fight Mictlan after all. The actual amount of help Arco will be able to provide remains to be seen but Ulm is hopeful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Karlem, I don't think you are even close to the situation Jomon was. Jomon got totally overpowered(all the leaders vs him) but Mictlan certainly has a good chance of winning this war because it's only clear leader vs. some runner ups. However, I will do everything I can to make sure hideous Mictlan lies in ruins at the end. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

PS: Karlem, only three more turns to go. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Karlem]

Good chance? Are you kidding? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I do not think I am so ahead to win this war, 3 on 1 is too much for me.

[Zenzei]

Yeah, I'm sure all those Jaguar Warriors and Ice/Arch Devils you have provide no punch at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Not to mention they are supported by your huge gold & gem income.

[Aezeal]

Arco can't do anything because I'm going after him.. he just wants the support of the rest against me should they win and take down mictlan.

Btw Karlem I think the chances are about 50-50 now we'll see how it goes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and arco declaring doesn't change a thing he's just trying to flee from me which won't work in any case.

Zenzei.. his income isn't all that... his upkeep is low though..

I have same income... so the graphs say... btu I have 50% upkeep or more...

[Zenzei]

Aye, Midgård has good income too but I was speaking from my point of view and compared to Ulm, Mictlan certainly has huge income.

[James243]

Yeah sorry karlem. At the time I was sincere but some solid arguments changed my mind. In my mind if you aren't hit hard now then you'll win. So you are I had no choice at all. My sum isn't to destroy you, just to help org you back a bit.

I'm a n00b and made the noob mistake earlier of thinking backstabbing in naps was just part of the game. This time I figured I'd declare my (changed) intentions up front, even knowing that surprise would have helped more. See - I'm the good guy right! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[James243]

Sorry for mistake words - writing on blackberry...

Aezeal, you're a good guy but dreaming a bit. A big part of the reason I'm attcking mictlan is that jomon has done such a great job tying you up. If intended to invade you or at least cotinue our stalemate. But I just don't see you as a real threat at least while you're otherwise occupied. One on one I'm sure you'd thrash me but figured I needed to weigh in where I can make a difference.

Good luck all!

[Aezeal]

you have seen I'm having a major army in Jomon's last castle I'm going to take and that I then can move into your territory ASAP?

The only reason I started doing Jomon first was cus you wheren't doing anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

a cold war it seems.. but with the army on Jomons castle I SHOULD be able to storm him next turn

I', REALLY surprised I STILL can't storm your castle though.. how many turns have I been there now?

[James243]

Dunno
... 4 turns? You only have 60 troops there

[Aezeal]

hmm well 40 strong troops though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif I'll get it soon enough

[Aezeal]

arco/mict do your turns!! even marignon has done it already..

I want that castle

[Karlem]

First battle of war, winner: Mictlan!

To one side mighty Arcosephale, with no less than 24 commanders including multiple mages. And 164 troops including 14 elephants.

In the other side the defender, Mictlan, with 8 commanders and 143 mighty defensor of freedom.

The clash was brutal, the jaguars warriors died by dozens under the feet of the mighty animals, the magma bolts rained by dozens but nobody retreated. With the bless of the true God the warriors keept on pushing, fighting over its dead friends and punishing the hated arcosephalian for its attack.

At the end 8 of arcosphalian commanders lay dead on the floor and 147 of its fighter including all but one elefant were left on the battlefield while Karlem believers claimed:

You will nos pass!

[James243]

Oh dear... Well I'm sure it'll be good watching... Well defended! And great narrative - must say that's been one of my favorite things in this game!

[Ghill]

BWA HA HA HA HA HAH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Heee heee, he he... sorry, you reffered to Mictlan, the blood hunter with evil scales as the defenders of freedom.

Anyway, I was just thinking of the irony that you declared war on me, the weakest nation in this world, and that because of it you will be fighting dramatically unbalanced war against almost the whole world.

Also, I saw your battle. AWESOME! Also, what's with the turkey?

[James243]

That was a great battle. I had no idea that you had that many troops there. Did you move many in that turn? Or was it PD? Maybe I shouldn't have declared my intentions. Anyway, it looked like something out of Lord of the Rings...and we all know what happened to the elephants in that...

The turkey?!

Poor old Khan'Gar-OftDead is now licking his wounds yet again...

[Karlem]

I had many troops around and prepared for your attack. You gave Ghill some maneuver time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Had you not declared your intentions I would have done the same, 200 troops in my border with not other possible enemy near? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif This way it is just more clear who's the enemy and who isn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Karlem]

you reffered to Mictlan, the blood hunter with evil scales as the defenders of freedom.



We do defend freedom. The freedom of your soldier to die for their God, the freedom of the virgins to be sacrified on the altars, the freedom of the demons to roam the world... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[Aezeal]

Be glad mictlan only has 1.5 bless.. in anothergame I'm against a triple 9 bless (fire/water/astral).. those jaguar warriors are unkillable.. trampling won't go and they kill FAST with fire and water bless... they don't die cus of first the twist fate and then the shapechange too.

The turkey is a shapeshifter mage I think

Hey arco... could you set up some party tents for 200 new visitors in halbartia? I'd be happy with some rooms inside the castle too btw http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Next turn Jomon looses his last northern castle and turn after that I'd like your castle too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

PS if you want to spend more cash on PD in those provinces near the castle be quick.. My mages haven't really impressed me (they don't seem to follow orders quite well) so I need them to get some target practice with thunderstriking in 2 turns (See if they actually are gonna do it this time.)

[Karlem]

Just waiting for Marignon...:(

[Zenzei]

Karlem: I just wanted to say it's only one more turn now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aezeal]

hehe marignon is so confused about attacking mictlan or not that he's gonna stale it seems.

[Aezeal]

hmmm Jomon's last castle taken without losses always nice.

The majority of my army is insisting on lodging in halbartia castle and have breached the gate there.. as I remember there is hardly anybody home so that should be nice..

I finally know what i did wrong last battles.. it appears the great Aezeal has overestimated the stormpower spell since it has much more demands than other similar spells for other sphere's I assumed incorrectly that one stormpower would work for all my mages on the field (like light of the northern star for astral) so that explains why only 2 mages cast thunderstrike that battle (the one casting stormpower and the one with A3). It has cost me about 3 battles and some dozen galdermen, but now I know how it works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. Let everyone (and arco in particular) fear the galdermen.

But there will be some genuine target practice now Í have instructed all galdermen to cast thunderstrike.
My volva (which I'm recruiting mainly atm for research purposes) will be casting soulslay.. the targetting there shouldn't be a problem either...

My estimation: there will be some arco deaths next turn.

Ow and to show I also keep the bigger picture (mictlan vs patala, arco and ulm) in mind while destroying arco: I was wondering what the deeper theory was in giving mictlan more lands instead of taking them (as is usual when invading someone 3 on 1) .. no offence.. just wondering.

PS nice research ulm.

PPS nice list of ... thingies (I wanted to say people but I fear there are some demons in there) in the hall of fame Mictlan.

PPPS can anyone explain why my income went down in the graphs when I've only been taking provinces last turn?

[Zenzei]

Battle plans of Ulm have been made and on next turn we'll see if I can give some headache to Karlem. Btw, Mictlan has them artifacts, I wonder if there's any left when I reach const 8.

Aezeal: Thanks, I'm quite surprised that I've been able to catch everyone even though I was the bottom feeder in research(by a huge margin) not so long time ago.

Yeah, Mictlan's devils have taken the HoF pretty good. Luckily unique summons don't get any heroic abilities.

Maybe you got some unrest events in your old provinces and the new ones have low income? That would explain the income drop, I wouldn't worry about it much though.

[Karlem]

I was just 2 on 1 last turn (Arcos an Patala) this turn Ulm will try to change things in its favour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif .

Do you like my dudes? they do their work incredibly well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Ask Patala for comments http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif