LeafNosedBat- EA game (upload pretenders)

[llamabeast]

Okay, this will be another game for new/newish players. I'd recommend players who've already played 0-2 games - if you've played more than that and would like to play regardless, post here and you can play if we're short of players. This should be a nice, fun and friendly game, a reasonable size but not too huge, and generally ideal for new players (that's the plan, at least).

This will be an EA game and will use the Worthy Heroes (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=561063) mod. Renaming will be on, graphs will be on, and everything else will be standard.

The map will be my modified version of Parganos, which is modified (a) to have a much more fair and even spread of terrain types, (b) to have fair-ish start positions, and (c) to have no gold or magic sites in the seas - so this will be a land-nation only game. I'll attach the map to this post.

Please sign up here and choose a nation! So far we have:

C'tis - Carkaton
Abysia - Darkstone
Niefelheim - Peacekeeper
Ulm - Edi
Vanheim - ehakakelate
T'ien Ch'i - Comtrav
Kailasa - Psycho
Lanka - kruton

[Carkaton]

Hi, been lurking here for a bit waiting for a newbie game to start. I'd like to play C'tis. Thanks!

[Darkstone]

Thanks llamabeast, I was itching for a bat game.

Abysia please.

[Peacekeeper]

id like to give this a go as Niefelheim, have 1 dom3 game currently going(see funneledearbat noob game). Like i said there i played a few dom2 games before so if you get a large interest, id be happy to sit out for someone.

[Edi]

What the hell, I'll take a stab. Sign me up as Ulm.

[Ehakakelate]

I've been lurking for a while, and feel ready for games with other people.

I'd like to take Vanheim.

[llamabeast]

Ooh, filling up super fast again, and it's great to see some really new players. And Edi - awesome! Very glad to have you.

If this one fills up quickly I'll make an overflow game again.

[llamabeast]

(To those who don't know, despite his huge post count and vast contribution to the Dom3 community, Edi has never to my knowledge played Dom3 multiplayer.)

[Edi]

True. I've played all of two MP games in Dom2 and that's the sum total of my Dominions MP experience.

One was just to check on how badly I'd screwed up Vanheim's start location on the Faerun map, where I was swiftly eliminated, though my opponent got a bit more than he could chew comfortably, especially when his main enemy became my ally of preference while I was going down.

The other game was one with Abysia and I went pretty far in that, but when the strongest player abandoned the game and another one managed to take all of his territory uncontested, finishing in shared second place was good enough. I'd never had so much fun pouring 4x Flames from the Sky + 10x Fires from Afar and assorted Earth Attacks and Seeking Arrows on the enemy research capital in one turn before...

Dom3 MP is a whole different ball game on some levels, judging by stuff I've read so far. Basics the same, details vary a lot and there are many more things to consider. So while I may have an edge in theoretical knowledge, I'm about as green as they come experience-wise.

So be no surprise if some other nation's false god gets to mount the Hunter of Bugs in his trophy hall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[ComTrav]

I'd like to join as Tien Chi.

[Psycho]

Kailasa for me

[llamabeast]

Okay cool. I thought this was full and created an overflow game, but it turns out I just had a counting failure - one space left.

[llamabeast]

Well, there's still one space left, but in the meantime people can start uploading their pretenders. Here's how:

Right, everyone who posted has a spot except for seda (sorry; slightly too late) and Aezeal (surely you don't count as a newbie still?! - in any case, I gave priority to the newer players).

Re Worthy Heroes - what it does is add more heroes to the game, and in general make them a little more powerful. Not overpowered, but it's nice if, when you get a hero, they're quite useful. The latest version is 1.8 - I'll turn my mention of it in the first post to a link in a minute.

The next thing to do is to design and upload your pretenders. Here's how to do that:

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions. Don't set a password, since for PBEM games they're not helpful and occasionally annoying (e.g. if you need a sub)
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'LeafNosedBat' in the subject line of your e-mail

[Edi]

Sent. I hope it came through okay.

[kruton]

Count me in for Lanka

[llamabeast]

Great, so we're full. Please start designing and uploading your pretenders everyone.

[llamabeast]

Note to anyone who would have like to play in this game: VesperBat is open and waiting for players (although it is LA rather than EA).

[Peacekeeper]

Niefelheim has been sent.

[Darkstone]

Sorry for my delay, I'll be sending my pretender within 2-3 hours.

[Psycho]

Can someone tell me where to find the command-line parameters. I would like to know how to start the game with the mod enabled, rather than having to enable it manually.

[Darkstone]

Abysia has been sent.

[llamabeast]

Great, the game is started! Hopefully you should all have received your first turns just now. The first turn has 48 hours on the clock in case of problems - you shouldn't need even nearly that much time. Subsequent turns will have 24 hours, at least until people start to ask for it to change to 48 hours, which will probably be sometime in mid-game.

I'd also like to ask for a volunteer to admin this game. The admin has to do two things:

1) If a player asks for an extension or anything then do it (provided it's reasonable; a day or two is reasonable, if they are going away for a week they should get a sub). It's super easy via the interface on the website.

2) If the admin gets knocked out of the game, pass the password on to one of the remaining players.

It's a really easy, almost zero-work job, but it keeps me from having to carefully watch 30-odd game threads (which I tried for a bit, and it hurt).

Finally, advice on a fun game: I highly recommend doing lots of diplomacy, and posting here lots with bits of reports from your empire and so on. Games with lots of interaction like that tend to be really fun and memorable.

Have fun guys!

[Darkstone]

Thanks for the advice llamabeast, and thanks for hosting.

If you wouldn't mind arbitrating, I'd like a decision about NAP style. Should we have honorable or Machiavellian style. This came up in Acouchi, when there were some surprises and a bit of unhappy discussion. It would probably be a good idea to get that out of the way beforehand, so everyone knows what to expect, instead of leaving this with the vague default.

I'm perfectly fine with you deciding one way or the other, but if you want to instead take the pulse of the players, based on the friendly newbie game atmosphere, I'd vote for honorable NAP (since IMHO we're here to learn how to play MP, and not build reputations). Perhaps it might also be a good idea to include a note concerning the topic for all your future newbie games.

[llamabeast]

Aha, a sensible suggestion Darkstone.

Okay, I hereby declare that yes, this is an honorable game, and people should stick to non-aggression pacts (NAPs) even if they become inconvenient. So be very careful what treaties you agree to!

Just to be clear on the conventions, if you agree to a 3-turn NAP, that means that you have to give three turns warning before attacking the other party, NOT that it only lasts 3 turns from when the agreement is made.

Incidentally it's a tricky question on whether honorable treaties should generally be enforced in games, and I personally haven't really been able to form an opinion, hence not making any statements elsewhere. But I think this time it's a good idea. Being as almost all players stick to treaties anyway and breaking them sometimes leads to bad feeling, I think it probably is sensible to have the situation clearly defined in a newbie game.

[Peacekeeper]

just a question guys ... but hows llama's ruling anymore enforcable than a normal trust system with NAPs?

ultimatly the community judges you for breaking them, not any rule decided when the game is made.

[Edi]

We'll see where this goes. I'm of a mind that if I agree to something, I'll hold to it. Once it expires, watch out. If I'm betrayed, well, guess I will not be trusting that person in that particular game (other games are a different matter, since playing in character may cause different behavior).

I prefer an honorable system. But I've trouble playing the stabbity-stab model either if it should come to that.

[llamabeast]

Well I can't enforce it as such. I'm just stating that's the idea for this game - NAPs are meant to be inviolable. In most other games that is never stated. Most players assume it, but occasionally someone doesn't, and violates an NAP since they believe they are entirely within their rights to do so. This often causes bad feeling.

The alternative would be to play with a Machiavellian style, in which NAPs can be broken and diplomacy is a subtler affair. This could be very fun too, and I plan to run a game explicitly like that at some point. But for this one (assuming no objections) we will go with the NAPs-should-not-be-violated model.

[Darkstone]

Well, llamabeast is no enforcer. In fact, outside of the hardcoded game settings, nothing is truly enforcable. The same scenario holds true for real life laws. You can't actually prevent crime, simply punish the offender afterwards. I expect something similar here, where every player, who always has more than one neighbor, the neighbor could feel free to fight an honorable war against the offender in defense of one betrayed, and for the mutual benefit of both. Like many historic wars and battles, most rulers typically needed a claim (land, title, etc.) or righteous cause (even highly debatables ones) to start wars (and in this case, join ones in progress).

[ComTrav]

Well, no one can enforce treaties in the real world, either, if someone decides they REALLY REALLY want to break them. Obviously, though, if you violate a NAP, no one will trust you, and no one will trade with you, and honestly if you can't engage in diplomacy in MP you're missing half the experience.

[ComTrav]

Another tricky issue (also impossible to enforce): Ritual Magic. Now, some ritual magic appears as a random event, but some are pretty obvious ("Wow, what are the odds of arrows from the sky killing all of my capital researchers in one turn?") Is this GENERALLY considered a NAP violation?

[Peacekeeper]

sure the event might be obvious that it was caused by magic ... but the wonderful thing about a lot of spells is that hte message you get are anonymous so you cant tell easily who cast it.

[Darkstone]

Well, that's certainly true in larger games, but in a smaller game like this, there's most likely going to only be one or two nations who are the clear suspects for even completely anonymous spells, especially those cast in a large group.

If they're your neighbor, it cinches it (motive, means, opportunity). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ComTrav]

Even in larger games, its often pretty obvious (I suppose, by the late game, anyone can have theoritically empowered themselves into any path they want). At least for the rituals that are really damaging, and if anyone has an uberwtfpwn strategy revolving around Baleful Star, I'd like to hear it.

Another 'gray area' is the turns 'in between'; almost all NAPs can be left with prior notification with a specificied number of turns. Now if the other person breaks the NAP during those turns, what're you going to do? You were going to be at war anyway, which was about all you could threaten him with before.

I suppose we, the players, could form a UN like organizations, and when someone violates a treaty the other players could spam him with messages telling him how naughty he's been. We could even impose trade sanctions, but in Primea I can't give away water gems so that doesn't matter. It would be outrageously fun and funny to have a game with this sort of setup, though.

[Carkaton]

Maybe people should announce their NAPs. If there is a record of one that gets violated, at least people will be slow to trust the backstabbing guy in the future. Seems that there's not much more to do.

[Darkstone]

ComTrav said:
I suppose we, the players, could form a UN like organizations, and when someone violates a treaty the other players could spam him with messages telling him how naughty he's been. We could even impose trade sanctions, but in Primea I can't give away water gems so that doesn't matter. It would be outrageously fun and funny to have a game with this sort of setup, though.



heh

I have to agree that sounds pretty funny and probably would be an enjoyable gametype. It sounds like something for maybe a much larger game with maybe 20 players, and many provinces per player (25+), so wars would be much slower and nations could behave more like nations.

Edit:
Oh, and since the game began... good luck everyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Guys, there's no need for all this talk of NAP enforcement I think. Everyone who plays Dominions in my experience is pretty mature - the only issues arise when people have different understandings of what an NAP means (for example if you're used to cutthroat games like the board game Diplomacy, you'd drop an NAP at the first opportunity). I was just trying to clarify that for this game, they're meant to be adhered to.


Maybe people should announce their NAPs.



Nooo. Secret alliances are the best!

I like the UN idea. Sounds fun. I'd like to try something like that some time.

Have fun guys!

[Edi]

You'll all excuse me for wishing the pox on each of your respective nations. Especially Abysia, damned merc stealer... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Seriously, it's shaping up to be fun because now I have to think carefully about everything and there is no guarantee I'll get anywhere. May the best player win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkstone]

Edi said:
You'll all excuse me for wishing the pox on each of your respective nations. Especially Abysia, damned merc stealer... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif




http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Edi said:
May the best player win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Hear hear!

[llamabeast]

Hey guys, should have done this a while ago: I'd like to ask for a volunteer to admin this game. The admin has to do two things:

1) If a player asks for an extension or anything then do it (provided it's reasonable; a day or two is reasonable, if they are going away for a week they should get a sub). It's super easy via the interface on the website.

2) If the admin gets knocked out of the game, pass the password on to one of the remaining players.

It's a really easy job, but it keeps me from having to carefully watch 30-odd game threads (which I tried for a bit, and it hurt). Help with this would be hugely appreciated.

[Edi]

I can do that.

[llamabeast]

Oh, sorry Edi, I didn't see your post. I'll send you the password right now.

[Executor]

Psycho you suck admit who tough you everything... lol

[ComTrav]

I'm playing three games at once, and I suppose its inevitable I would do badly in one of them. I think things went really downhill for me when my huge army went one way and all the mages who were going to support it went another.

At least I managed to dodge the bullet on getting rushed in the other two games (and one as much-maligned MA Ulm, no less). And although things are looking pretty bleak against Lanka, I'm not done in yet.

I have initially expanded slower than I would've liked in any of my three games...next game I play I will try to go with awake SC pretender or bless rush. I suppose a lot of it is luck of starting position, though.

[Edi]

Luck and starting position play a huge part. So does the disposition of your first neighbors and where you manage to take things.

As far as this game goes, not to put too fine a point on it but you got caught between a rock and a hard place. No idea about Lanka, but your other neighbor's graphs say it all...

With regard to expansion, I must say that my own initial expansion was slower than I had hoped. It's picked up some at Vanheim's expense now, but we'll see how it goes...

[Darkstone]

@ComTrav:
You do realize that you need neither a SC or a bless rush to expand quickly? Certain nations can do it effectively with other methods.

Luck certainly plays a larger role in the games than I would prefer.

[ComTrav]

Carl von Clausewitz likened war to a game of cards...you can't control what cards you get, but there's skill in playing the hand you're dealt.

Sending my huge army one way and my scads of mage back-up another? Pure nub =). (I have no idea how it happened, except maybe I misclicked, who knows?)

@ Darkstone-Yes, I realize neither SC or Bless rush is needed for quick expansion for certain nations. I was able to keep pace in the early game in my other two games, at least after I stopped patrolling every province after I captured it like I did in SP. I can't help but wish I would've designed my pretender this game with something other than late-game boosters in mind, though =).

I suppose is Lanka gets attacked by someone else and I manage to take back territory I'm not totally finished; after all, I have plenty of mages and I'm still pretty solid on research. (I would, naturally, be very grateful to anyone who gave me this opportunity.)

[ComTrav]

Is there a problem with the server? I tried emailing my turn and received "delivery failed" message. (Earlier today I had no problem with Fruitbat, though, who knows?)

[ComTrav]

And handed Lanka a pretty serious defeat last turn. If these monkey demons which to withdraw all of our forces north, and acknowledge the greatness of Tie'n Ch'i culture and kowtow before the one true God of Gods, a peaceful resolution is still perhaps possible.

(There, I got to demand someone kowtow, which is half the fun of playing TC...we'll see if I make it to the late game to really make good use of my potentially crazy diverse magic, which is another part of the fun.)

Interested in trading for a Dwarven Hammer if anyone has one. (Playing MA Ulm in Primea has spoiled me for forging...)

[Darkstone]

I had trouble getting my turn file earlier, but everything seems to be working normally now.

That's some seriously wishful thinking on your part though, both in terms of getting peace at any point in this game (especially since TC tends to be both powerful and threatening late game), and the dwarven hammer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Besides, why would you need one if you designed your pretender with late-game boosters in mind?

[ComTrav]

TBH, it's not the 3E that's keeping me from the hammer, it's the gems. I'll get one on my own eventually, but I sort of wanted to see if I could get it faster by trading. Paying full price for forging is getting to me =).

[Edi]

I've not had any problems with the emails.

Since as Ulm I'm running perhaps the preeminent forging nation, I'm open to trade. Especially now that Construction research has actually gotten somewhere...

[Ehakakelate]

And so, the People of Vanheim have fallen...

I learned few lessons from this game:
1. I will not use my broken right ctrl any more.
2. Even when lost a good mage, I try to make sensible decisions.

[Psycho]

Is there money in water provinces? I know there shouldn't be, but Edi keeps taking them.

[Carkaton]

Even without gold or gems, water provinces can still possess a strategic value.

[Darkstone]

It was a valiant fight Vanheim, and you certainly had a tough time against Abysia and Ulm.

To be perfectly fair to you (and I imagine you'd like to hear this), I confess you caused me significant anguish and suffering in a variety of ways.

I'll PM you with a detailed account of the results of your exploits, as despite the anguish I am not bitter, and think the information may be somewhat helpful to you as a learning experience.

Take care in your next game.

[Psycho]

It seems that niefel is stalling for a couple of turns now. Anyone knows what happened to him?

[Carkaton]

He kept losing battles and probably got demoralized and gave up. If he would've equipped his jarls and sent them into battle instead of using them as casters he probably would've fared better.

[Darkstone]

Carkaton said:
He kept losing battles and probably got demoralized and gave up.



That's quite an assumption. Any number of reasons why (but only a few of them good). Best to let Niefel explain.


Carkaton said:
If he would've equipped his jarls and sent them into battle instead of using them as casters he probably would've fared better.



That's completely correct, however, staling for 4 turns kind of takes the wind out of the sails of the defense of one's nation.

As to the staling for 4 turns with no mention, this sort of behavior should really not be acceptable. Outside of death (one's own or family) there's never a reason to not ask for a sub or not go AI. The unfair advantage given to the neighbors (in this case Ulm and C'tis) is tremendous.

Unfortunately, I can do nothing but look on in protest. I am however, left with a sour taste in regards to MP play.

Edit:
After a moment of retrospect, I request a 24 hour delay in hosting to allow a sub to be found. If one cannot be acquired, the admin should turn Niefel AI before the next turn. Though this action will likely result in only a speedbump for Ulm and C'tis it is still the correct thing to do in my opinion.

[Carkaton]

Well being that I was the only one at war with him, that he sent his 10 to 15 man squads of giants at me that got wiped out with the only losses being my skeleton spam and a couple afflictions on my pretender, then with his lack of response, I'd say that it isn't "quite an assumption". He had no answer to me, and instead of try and figure one out, he quit.

Now as for my actions after he quit, yes I did exploit the lack of control of his troops. I didn't wait until i was sure he was going to stale before submitting my turn, but after the 2nd stale I had a good idea he wasn't coming back. I ask you this. After fighting and killing him on an even field of battle repeatedly, what would you do?

I feel that I have earned the lands, that this was an inevitibility that just took a few turns less than planned. Maybe he would've found an answer to the skel spam, but the AI wouldn't have, and his position wasn't exactly a great one to get a sub into. You see, his giants never retreated, N9 bless with beserk ftl, so when he lost it hurt his pocket bad. Giants aren't cheap. And by the time I got to his jarl squad leader he was already at 100+ fatigue from casting his own skels(trying to match my many sauromancers with his one jarl wouldn't work). An easy kill for sure.

As for being left with a sour taste in regards to MP play, well what are you going to do? Make sure everyone is equal in skill? I'm the same newbie he is, just that I happened to have a good answer to his poorly chosen bless and battle plans, and beat him into submission. I can't apologize for this. Please remember this, He did not kill ONE of my casters when he was controlling his army while he lost 1000's of gold worth of giants. It's not as if he was effective when he was playing.

However if there is something that you other players feel that I did wrong, I am open to solutions. As for finding a sub, well I own all his lands save 2, his capitol is under siege and with a presumably superior force than his researchers(time will tell).

I will admit fault in not tipping Edi off to turn him to AI 2 turns ago, but what kind of jerk would I have been if he came back wanting to put up a final struggle(who knows maybe he wants to still, one last chance to bloody my nose. I hope he does.)

[Darkstone]

Well, I haven't checked the game today to count Niefel provinces or army strength, but I'll take your word that it's too late to do anything with Niefel. I hereby take back my request for delay, subhunt, or AI.

I also wasn't accusing you of doing anything wrong. I was accusing Niefel (unless of course, he actually has a valid reason). I have no complaints of you beating him over the head with a superior strategy and his losing multiple times with poor execution of his own, I only complain that he staled for 4 turns, and in such a manner, proved less of a challenge than an AI. This is even more significant of a matter in a small 8 player game.

The territory is of course, rightfully yours, no one disputes this (though of course, that will likely change in game later, heh). You have done nothing wrong as far as I can see.

Keep in mind much of what I said earlier, and much of what I continue to state, is not directed at C'tis, or even Niefel directly, but is just in general, my opinion.

The responsibility to play out your game if able, or to find a sub or go AI if unable, is the responsibility of the player in question. While playing a MP game is hardly a commitment of any gravity, it's still not something to be dismissed with the wave of a hand. This is what leaves me the sour taste.

I am of the opinion, that the best games, are games that are also fun to lose. Dominions is one good example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Carkaton]

Ya, maybe I overreacted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Anyway I will try to submit Friday after work, after that I will be gone until sunday evening. Probably midnite monday GMT. If we can delay hosting until then I'd much appreciate it.

Edit: to clarify, I should be able to submit turn 27 before I leave. 28 is the one i'll need an extension on.

[Psycho]

This other game I'm playing - Figment (you may want to read the thread, it became very interesting) is hosted on Velusions server which shows whether the player stalled last turn, so everybody has that information. And if anybody stalls for two turns he is turned to AI. I think that is fair.

Carkaton, you exploited the stalling of niefel to take his lands easier than you should probably have. While I don't judge as I would've probably done the same, now that it is discovered that niefel stalled for four turns, I would like to see it turned to AI. As you said yourself, the AI will surely not be a better solution that the player you outsmarted, but is certainly better than nothing. And if you would've taken his lands as easily with him playing his turns, you certainly wouldn't object fighting the AI.

So, Edi, I ask you to turn niefel to AI.

Edit: About delaying the hosting - it's fine by me.

[Carkaton]

Agreed, Niefel should be turned to AI. I should have said something sooner I admit, and expect diplomatic reprecussions. However I will say that at this point, the AI may make it easier for me than no action at all. As I said, his capitol is under siege now. An AI will be more likely to try to break the siege where if no one is playing I will have to storm the castle, which is more difficult. It makes no real difference to me though.

BTW, I didn't mean to make it sound like I outsmarted him, just that our army makeups favored me. While I did set up one trap initially, it just happened that giants have no real killing power against cold resistant undead.

With the bless he had, I don't know if he could have made an effective counter or not. E9 N4-6 would have made his jarls unkillable by the spam and his giants much more difficult, but with no reinvigoration they'd just get wore out.

[Edi]

Sorry I didn't see this before now. I've had a couple of days of rather hectic schedule and not been on the forum much. I'll turn him AI, not that it's going to do any good at this point, since his only remaining province is being besieged by C'tis.

I request that anyone in danger of staling more than 1 turn make sure they notify us in this thread or send me a PM. That way I can delay hosting. What especially annoys me about this particular instance is that if I had known he was staling, I'd have grabbed two or three provinces off my northern border to add to my holdings. I certainly had enough troops for it. And because of that, I lost out big in terms of future potential, resources and strategic flexibility.

EDIT: By just going stale for several turns in a row, he actually screwed up my game much worse than he otherwise would have. From the looks of it, I'm soon going to be in the unenviable position of playing client state to either C'tis or Abysia before getting pasted. Even if he'd fought to he bitter end and I'd have joined in on the looting, I could have done that. But I just respected the NAP we had and got screwed because of that. Thanks a lot to Niefelheim indeed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Edi]

Actually, turns out I can't turn a player AI. I'd need to contact Llamabeast and have him do it, but at his point it makes no difference. So let him stale. Just one province left anyway.

[llamabeast]

Just so everyone knows, you can all see a table of who's staled and when, although I admit it's slightly hidden. Go to the LeafNosedBat page (on www.llamaserver.net (http://www.llamaserver.net)), click on "Admin options", and then on "Show staling record".

[ComTrav]

I admit, I'm pretty amazed I survived longer than Niefelheim.

Long-term outlook is bleak for me right now. Abysia just seems to be waiting for my ultimate collapse to snap up the rest of my territory, while in the meantime just keeping me around to make sure Lanka doesn't become too big a threat. (And, while I'm at war with Lanka, my threat to him is basically nil.)

I propose a 3-way truce between Tie'n Ch'i, Lanka, and Kailasa to last at least the next 10 turns to give us the opportunity to get our ducks in a row and confront other threats while we still have the chance. The fighting so far has been indecisive, and we could either continue to drag things out while certain other countries continue to surpass us further, or we can negotiate a settlement that, though unpalatable, best preserves our chances of ultimate victory in the game.

[ComTrav]

Stalling last turn was purely accidental, I thought I had on more time.

[Edi]

It seems to host every night around midnight (GMT+2), give or take an hour.

Pipe up if you want the hosting interval increased. I've managed not to stale a single turn yet, but it's been close a couple of times.

In other news, Ulm is in the market for Astral gems in return for forged items or gems of other types. Up to 20 Fire gems would also be welcome in return for forged items or one on one trade of other gem types. Will also trade for an AMA and a Starshine Skullcap.

Any interest? Send counteroffers by PM.

[Psycho]

If people are having trouble getting their turns in, maybe we should switch to 48h intervals. It's way past turn 24 anyway.

[Carkaton]

i've got no problem with 48 hour intervals. Although we really need to get niefel set to AI, Obviously I haven't breached his fort yet, and it might not happen in the next turn or two even.

Edi I've got no problem with you changing his email to your own and setting him to AI manually. Your standing on this board would indicate that you wouldn't raid his gem stash, and any intelligence on me you would gain is really inconsequential to me.

[Edi]

I'll set him to my own email and turn him AI. That's a good idea.

And no, tempting as it might be, I wouldn't raid his gems. Have enough of what he would have found anyway. Like I said, I'm in the market for astral and fire.

[Edi]

Niefelheim has been set to AI. What a goddamn sore loser, he could have put up a real fight if he had bothered.

[Darkstone]

Thanks Edi. That will likely quicken the game hosting to something more like 20 hour turns instead of 24.

As for the 48h clock, even though I like to really take my time with my turns and doublecheck to make sure I miss nothing, I'm against it for the time being. If I stale, I stale, but it keeps a good pace, and the entertainment high. Perhaps after one or two more players bow out.

[Carkaton]

Edi said:
Niefelheim has been set to AI. What a goddamn sore loser, he could have put up a real fight if he had bothered.



Really? That doesn't bode well for me then.

[Edi]

Carkaton said:

Edi said:
Niefelheim has been set to AI. What a goddamn sore loser, he could have put up a real fight if he had bothered.



Really? That doesn't bode well for me then.


If he had bothered to play, that is. Not so good anymore.

[ComTrav]

The internet in my apartment is dead and won't be restored until Wednesday. As much as I would like to soldier on and fight the good fight, it's probably just easier to set me to AI.

Thanks everyone for a good game!

[Darkstone]

Take care.

Thanks for playing out a bad position for a long time.

Good luck in your future games.

[Edi]

Thanks for letting me know. I'll see if I can set you to AI before the game hosts. Not a lot of time left.

[Edi]

Managed to set you to AI, so TC isn't staling turn 36. Good thing too.

In all honesty, I must apologize for unilaterally postponing the game hosting for two hours, but I had to in order to prevent a stale turn. It was a long day today. But if not for that, TC would have staled too.

I'll set hosting interval to 48 hours now, so you have two days to do the next turn. Quickhosting is still on, so as soon as everyone is done, it'll host again.

[Psycho]

Edi, why didn't you prolong the turn a little and offer somebody to step in for tien chi. How unthoughtful of you.

[Darkstone]

I wouldn't be so quick to blame Edi, but if you insist... I'd love to hear who you think would want to play a position like T'ien Ch'i's, with 5 provinces, a meager army, and no chance of winning.

[Psycho]

I would if I weren't in the game already. I'm just saying that before turning to AI, he could have tried to find a sub. Maybe somebody would answer. If not, he could always turn tien chi to AI a few hours later.

[Edi]

I suppose I could have tried to find a sub, but to be realistic, there was little that could have been done by a sub. During the turn that I turned TC to AI, Lanka for all intents and purposes destroyed his largest army. He's surrounded by Abysia, Lanka and maybe even some Kailasa provinces and there is simply no way to come back from the position he is in. Or to even prolong things.

There is also the fact that for all intents and purposes, this is my first MP game. I took part in two others two years ago, one a very shortlived one and the other a longer-running one that was completely ruined by the strongest player just vanishing without turning AI or leaving any word. This is certainly the first game I've been in charge of, so to speak.

So apologies if the decision to turn TC to AI was a bit rash, but I honestly did not think of postponing the hosting of turn 36 further. I'd just come home after a 14 hour day and did my turn and the other alterations as the last thing before going to bed.

[Psycho]

Never mind. It would only delay things for a couple of turns.

[ComTrav]

Edi's right, I can't believe anyone would want to sub for me in that position. And I haven't played that many MP games, but it seems to take a couple days to find a sub for a player who is in a GOOD position. All that's left now is for the capital research mages to spam magic (research being the only category I'm not at or near the bottom) and hope for the best. I knew things would end badly for me soon when my push into Lanka territory failed; besides, even if it had succeeded, I would only have war with a much more powerful Abysia to look forward to.

At least I'm doing better in my other games. GG everyone.

[Carkaton]

Your AI got an annoying global cast(wrath of god) that killed some of my guys if that makes you feel better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Edi]

I can't even see his territory without scouts and I'm getting hit by /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Darkstone]

TC knows how to say adieu with class.

It's certainly a painful global and it likely affects me a lot more than the rest of you... I'm doing my best to kill the caster but that may still be a turn or two away.

[ComTrav]

Man, I wish I would have thought of casting Wrath of God...I tend to shy away from globals in MP just because some of them seem to make people very angry at you (Wrath of God, Forge of the Ancients)...

Almost certainly it was cast by the pretender, though.

[Edi]

Four mages killed just the last turn, 1 diseased through damage-caused affliction and three turns left to live, two more suffering from afflictions and my mage recruitment standing still because the new bodies just replace the ones that died. And if my special guys start dropping off, that'll be a whole different kind of pain on top of it...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Thank Shardoz (i.e. me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif) for cheap lightning negators...

[Psycho]

I claim all Lankan territories and will consider it a direct declaration of war should anybody try to take a province or two while I'm destroying their army.

[Darkstone]

It seems I am having trouble with the llamaserver, or my email host. My turns aren't getting through. I'm not quite sure what the problem is exactly, but now I'm staling in two games. If I won't be able to resolve this somehow, I'm going to have to ask for a sub.

This is extra unfortunate for me, since I'm doing quite well in my opinion, and was having a lot of fun with this game.

[Edi]

That sucks. Can you use a different email host? I can easily change your email if that's the case.

[Psycho]

Why don't you send your turn to Edi (because he's the admin) and he can try to send it to Llamaserver. Or someone else who is not participating in the game if you don't trust Edi.

[Darkstone]

Alright, I can try a different email host or I can send it to Edi. What do you suggest?

[Psycho]

Well the simplest would be to try a different host. You can just open a web mail somewhere. But still I think Edi needs to set somewhere that this will be your new address. Maybe you can do it yourself - take a look at admin options.

[Darkstone]

I seem to be receiving email just fine, so I suppose I don't have to get a new email addy set. I hope it accepts it from a different address normally.

[Darkstone]

Well, that worked. And I received the new turn in my original email box.

I guess that's what you get with free mail hosting.

[Edi]

War with C'tis and thus begins the fall of Ulm it seems. I did NOT like how that battle turned out...

[Carkaton]

Well at least he's still alive. Feeble minded now maybe, but can maybe still block the fort wall good.

[kruton]

Fellow pretenders, I'm clearly toast and I suspect Kailasa will have all my lands shortly. I'm also leaving the country for two weeks of vacation starting on the 27th. I don't think I'll have much access to email at that point, so someone should probably switch me to AI at that point (I don't suspect anyone would enjoying subbing for me). Despite my blunders, I've enjoyed the game. Good luck to those who remain!

[Psycho]

You did well kruton. You couldn't have done much better in your position. It was fun fighting with you. Have a good time on your vacation.

[Darkstone]

Take care kruton.

Good luck in your future games.

[Edi]

Good luck on the next one, kruton. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Carkaton]

Not that I should be one to demand an inactive guy set to AI, but Lanka did request to be turned to AI and staled last turn.

[Edi]

Sorry. I'll do that now. Let's see what global his god puts up...

[Psycho]

His God is long gone. And his last army will be this turn as well no matter what AI does, so it makes no difference.

[Edi]

Well, I'll set him to AI this evening in any case. Would have done yesterday evening, but my internet connection crapped out at the precise moment I pressed the send button, so it didn't get through. It's new goddamn cables today... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[llamabeast]

Edi, careful - if you set him to AI using the same CD key as you used to play your own turn, either your own turn or the AIing will fail due to a CD key violation.

Let me know (by PM) if you need me to do anything, e.g. delete the AI-ing 2h file.

[Edi]

I did not manage to send that one yet. Like I said, the connection crapped out in midsend. The thing is that I've done the same twice now, first with Niefel and thenwith Tien Chi, set them on AI and my own turn orders were executed just fine despite being sent from the same install and the nation turned AI the same turn (in TC's case it also put up Wrath of God...)

[Psycho]

It's an interesting thing the the first four nations to be defeated are generally considered strong nations - Vanheim, Niefelheim, Lanka and Tien Chi, and that most of the remaining nations are considered to be underdogs.

[Edi]

The reason Vanheim got knocked out early, or one of them anyway, was that he wasn't prepared for a lightning immune SC with awe, high fear and fairly basic equipment. That banged up one of his main armies fairly well and he also got into a two-front war.

[Edi]

Well, it was fun as long as it lasted. I just got owned. In the immortal words of Private Hudson, "Game over, man, game over!"

The turn 45 army size graph should tell everyone everything they need to know. Congrats to Carkaton on wiping me out. There's no bouncing back from that catastrophe. All because of a stupid miscalculation on my part. Oh, well...

So, if anyone is interested, it looks like C'tis is casting legions of wights to build up his armies even though he hardly needs them (didn't need them against me anyway). Right now I'd peg him as more powerful than Abysia and if he manages to take all of my territory, he will be, hands down.

[Psycho]

Edi it was nice playing with you. Hope to see you in some other games as well.

[Edi]

I'll be hanging around until the bitter end, there's just nothing I can do to avert it anymore. So, open invitation to grab as much of my provinces as you can. I'm not going to leave C'tis any infra if I can help it...

[Carkaton]

I got lucky that I was able to take on your two armies one at a time with my main army.

You played it very well given the research and gem gap. I was hoping you'd keep quiet while I took your lands, but I guess this is what I get.

Hope to see you in a future game where you can get your revenge.

[Darkstone]

Take care Edi, your strategy was solid, you just were unlucky to be bordering C'tis and me, both of whom were ideally situated.

Better luck in your future games.

[Edi]

Thanks, Darkstone! Not so much caught between you and C'tis but The Sniffler player buggering off with a case of sniffles at his first defeat without saying anything and allowing C'tis to take all of his stuff uncontested. I should have attacked C'tis immediately then and the story would be very different. But what's done is done and that's it.

Well, I'll have my revenge, as you should expect, Carkaton, when you see the next couple of turn reports. If all goes as planned, you're going to have your work cut out for you trying to pry me out, as I intend to dig a deep hole, crawl inside and pull the entrance closed behind me... *evil grin* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Abysia and Kailasa are free to place forging orders as they please and Ulm will try to meet them as much as possible. As long as I have my forts, it's a full on garage sale, but for stuff that requires fire gems I need the materials provided.

[Psycho]

Can we delay hosting for 24 hours? I won't be able to play my turn today.

[Edi]

Already apologized in the PM, but for the future: hosting delay requests to be put in by Friday afternoon at the latest (for timezone GMT+2, which is Finland), because I'll probably be away weekends so that I can manage my turns on Friday evening, set any hosting delay and then come back on Sunday afternoon/evening and do the next one.

[Psycho]

Can I get a 24 hour delay this time then? I will be traveling tomorrow and won't be able to do my turn.

[Edi]

I'll postpone the hosting.

[Carkaton]

Could I get a 24 hour extension this turn please.

[Edi]

If it hasn't hosted yet, I'll extend it.

[Edi]

Hosting of turn 51 delayed by 24 hours.

[Carkaton]

Abysia staled and is not responding to PM's. If he does not return, this game is as good as over. It probably is anyway.

Regardless, I just want to give a big congratulations to psycho. Although my PMs with you have not been friendly of late, I applaud how you conducted your gameplan. How you steamrolled Lanka with what I imagine is perfect timing. I saw your main army on a couple occasions with my scout, that same army would have crushed me as well at that time.

Diplomatically, you lulled me into a sense of innacurate superiority. You remained overtly friendly to me, while slowing my progress by assisting ulm. The amount of assistance and how much it helped was probably not that much, but it is a great lesson learned that I hope to use in the future. Although your timing of nexus was a bit early in my opinion, the message is still clear. You won this game. You earned it.

Now I'm not going to surrender and quit yet. I have a few toys that I want to play with first. When those toys are gone and most of my land is, then I'll bow out.

But if Darkstone returns, or finds a sub, we might still have a game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Psycho]

This is not the first time that Abysia stales and I expect that we will hear from him soon.

Carkaton, I watched your assault on niefel castle and I doubt that my main army would fare well against yours. You were pretty strong yourself at that time and are much much stronger now. This game is nowhere near finished.

My assistance to Ulm was very small, practically nonexistant which I now regret. I thought that you were my friend and I acted accordingly throughout the game. You are the one here who is the master of diplomacy. You had several brilliant moves. Like the gesture of sending me three skull mentors (which I didn't ask for) on the turn when you declared war to Ulm. You wanted to be sure your back was safe while you picked on Ulm. And it was not needed because I respected our NAP the whole time. If you win this game it will be mostly because of your diplomatic skills.

Even this post of yours is an excellent example of your skill. Your post is a public attempt to get Abysia to fight against me. The idea (which is very clever I must admit) is to present me as the biggest threat and to gain Abysia's add, when it is clear that you are really the most powerful nation in the game. My arcane nexus may be a potent spell, but your well of misery has been running for quite some time now. I imagine you have loads of death gems. You certainly have plenty of Tartarian as well (I've seen a few). And the darkness you are about to cast is much more devastating then the nexus, which at least is not a spell that is destructive to others.

[Carkaton]

If the skull mentors were not needed it was hardly a brilliant gesture. If my post was an excellent example of my skill, why is it so transparent?

I wanted to keep us closer to parity when I was ahead, knowing that if I did not I could not count on you as an ally. That was my clear intention, not just a stopgap gesture to insure my northern frontier wouldn't be invaded by you in the next few turns.

When you surpassed me however, it was not in your intrest to keep it close. Throwing up the nexus with Abysia still alive, you effectively gained half of both of our non astral gem incomes(if he is going to come back and spend them that is) while getting half price discount on every one you spend. That is so far out of parity that I can not compete. Well of misery is not in the same ballpark as nexus. And utterdark was never going to be cast by me as I do not want to draw the ire of both you and abysia, which would be the natural reaction. Even if I cast it now, you'll have a good idea of how many gems I used to cast it from nexus and it will be dispelled by your massive gem income almost immediately.

Add in the fact that Ulm is still alive and doing an excellent job holding out while I am going to be forced to play whack-a-mole with his flying pretender. This gives your army a chance to sweep through Abysia's lands and take much of everything while I am bogged down.

I had talked to Edi, begging him to surrender his lands to Abysia to keep a chance at a balance of power in this game alive, but he wants you to win. Rightly so, since you were friendly to him, but it drives a further shift from parity from us.

Finally, I agree the game is far from over, but the outcome cannot be denied unless Abysia comes back. Even though I doubt he has the incentive to see this through, since I would most likely win if you don't. Chances are he is not too fond of me because I had a firm chance to ally with him turns ago. He was more fearful of your astral magic than my death magic, but I could not break our previous alliance in good conscience and had to take my chances. When those chances turned to 0 this last turn, I could not stay in alliance in good conscience.

I'm not trying to act like you are an ***, I know that I am the guy who backed out of my word here. But parity, at least an illusion of it, in a temporary alliance in a zero sum game is absolutely necessary, or the alliance will naturally fall apart. I'm not playing for you to win, as you aren't playing for me to win.

[Edi]

Between the two of you, it is not yet a decided game by any means. Depends on what each of you does with it. I've talked to both of you by PM and at this point I have no secrets left as such.

The place where the game went south for me was when Sniffleheim simply abandoned the game without even bothering to go AI or informing anyone so we could have gotten a sub. I had a NAP with him and didn't check the staling data, which Carkaton, my ally of the time did, thus getting all of Niefelheim's territory.

I should have attacked him at that point without warning, as it was essentially a betrayal of our alliance not to share the information. I'm not bitter about that, but this game would look decidedly different at this point if I had not made the mistakes I did. So I got boxed in, fell behind in research and by the time I got my stuff together, it was too late, C'tis had too much of a lead. A stupid strategic error on my part resulted in the complete annihilation of my main army when he took the province behind me and all of my combat mages died in retreat. Lost well over a dozen of them that way, all with equipment.

The province with the trolls helped me in the early game and has staved off my defeat by a turn or two. Losing my pretender earlier was not a big deal, since he was already mute and feebleminded by that time and recalling him got rid of those two afflictions, which was lucky on my part. Another thing that helped me was having Mother Oak up as long as I did, which allowed enough gems to arrange for the Gift of Health, which turned out to be a stroke of genius and really put a crimp in C'tis's plans when he had to spend a significant portion of one army just to take down my trolls.

The reason I am so friendly with Kailasa is that we have no common border and no hostilities and we've done each other some favors trading items and gems earlier, sharing intel and other small things like that. Aside from some common moves against Vanheim in the early game, I've had little or nothing to do with him despite us being nominal allies.

Another thing that might have turned the tide on a lot of things is if I'd had access to a single astral mage earlier, because it turned out that some of my provinces (one in particular) were crawling with useful astral sites. Finding the Library of Time 20 turns earlier would have made for a VERY different strategy on my part.

Right now I have disproportionate influence on future events due to all the goodies I've got around and the gem stash I'm sitting on because I have no useful way or even capability of spending it that makes any difference to my ultimate fate. So I can give an advantage to someone, but it does not mean the game is decided. Both C'tis and Kailasa have ways of fighting that will make life very, very difficult for each other. Abysia's disposition is really what will decide this, since he has more useful tools to fight a death nation than an astral one.

For C'tis and Abysia the best course is to crush me as quickly and thoroughly as possible while simultaneously attacking Kailasa and trying to get the Nexus down quickly. For Kailasa, well, I do not have a realistic assessment of his capabilities except for the pretender, no idea what mages and other things. My grasp of the monkey nations in general except for Lanka is rather weak.

So, let's see for a while yet. If Abysia looks like he's not coming back, I'll postpone the hosting so we can see if anybody wants to sub him.

[Carkaton]

If I remember correctly, you had rebuked my alliance offer Edi, taking just the NAP. Even still, I doubt I would have said anything about Niefel's leaving. In hindsight, it's something I'll never do again. It cheapened everything I've accomplished since. At the time, I had thought I had earned them by making him quit. But there's no such a thing as who deserves anything in this game. I do apologize about that.

I will say this though, I remote summoned all his provinces after his second stale. I was planning on doing that even if he had continued, feeling confident enough that I had him pinned to his capitol. It's impossible to be certain, but I like to think I would have ended up with Niefel's lands anyway, but probably would have lost a lot of mages and time if he had put up a good last stand. Which would have given you a bigger window to strike.

[Edi]

Could be we made no alliance and I misremember. That's always a possibility. It's been a long while. I think it might have been that I said I do not want a formal alliance to attack him immediately since Van was still alive and kicking and that would have allowed him to put a dagger into my back. It was also with the assumption that Niefel was still in the game. Doesn't matter much. Like I said, I have no hard feelings. Live and learn.

If I'd known about his abandonment of the game, I could have had several armies over the border in very short time, so we would probably have had a race for his capital. But no worries. It's just a game, so once this one is done, we can always sign up for others where we can avoid the things we did wrong in this one. I've made more than my share of mistakes.

[Psycho]

I did not say that the mentors were unneeded, just that they were not asked for. They were some sort of a bribe. Carkaton, we were not evenly matched, you had a big lead in both research and gems and it gradually increased. The nexus is an attempt to gain up on you. At the moment you are still much stronger.

I agree that we should not continue this game without Abysia. If Darkwind doesn't show up, we should search for a sub. Also I would not like to plan and play my turns without knowing what side Abysia is on. Abysia will probably decide the winner.

[Carkaton]

Edi: I just checked the message archive and you said that you welcomed an alliance and NAP. So I messed up there. I'm not sure how I responded because the forum doesn't save reply messages, only original ones. If you have it still, i'd like to see it.

The reason why I remember thinking we weren't in an alliance is pretty clear though, that you didn't want to get involved with a niefelheim war due to their NAP with you. Then Kailasa became friendly and traded with me and my direction of expansion was set.

In hindsight I would have gone the other direction if I didn't get confused, the only reason being that kailasa's heat scales would have been much better than your cold scales on my lizardmen.

Here's the original message(prior ones were in game and i don't have that far back still on my email):

LeafNosedBat - NAP & Other things

From: Edi

Hi,

Regarding the NAP and alliance in LNB: Ulm would welcome such a development. Vanheim declared war and we are slugging it out right now. Van's dominion is ORder 2, Sloth 1, Cold 1, Luck 2, Magic 2, no idea what sort of pretender. Vanheim's capitaal is in province 60. Abysia is located in the southern part of the map and has asked for NAP.

I currently have NAP with Niefelheim and do not expect that to change. I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I'll try to keep Vanheim contained and expand at his expense. Otherwise the danger is that I'll be caught between the rock of Niefelheim and the hard place of Abysia with nowhere to go. NOT a place I want to be...

[Carkaton]

Psycho, I knew where your main army was, I did not need to bribe you. As soon as you declared on Lanka I knew my northern frontier would be relatively safe. I mean it is a bribe, but it wasn't one that I thought would prevent an immediate backstabbing against ulm. I did it as an attempt to keep you happy so that Abysia and you wouldn't team up on me in the end game. Nothing really devious or diplomatically brilliant about that. Oh and if you check your message, you did say that they were not needed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I know that 27 research a turn is not that much and did not give us parity, but I was extending a gesture to try get it closer than it was. I was not going to shut down research to let you catch up, and I knew as soon as you killed lanka that your gem income would catch up.

[Edi]

Don't worry about it, Carkaton. Mistakes happen. I checked my end, it seems like it was that we had more than a NAP but not quite a full blown alliance.

[Psycho]

Abysia staled again. That's two turns in a row now, but even more importantly he hasn't played for 6 days, since both turns were prolonged. I don't think we should continue until we find a sub for Abysia.

[Edi]

Damn. I tried postponing it this morning just before it hosted, but apparently it didn't go through in time. I forgot to do it last night because I had to deal with connection trouble.

[Psycho]

Just a brief overview of the situation for the new player: Ctis is currently the most powerful nation (with Tartarians) and is fighting Ulm. If nobody helps Ulm Ctis's victory is just a matter of time. Kailasa (me) is the second and has cast Arcane Nexus in an attempt to catch up on Ctis, whose Well of Misery has been working for a long time (and we all know death gems are the best). The nexus has been up for only one turn. I don't think anybody knows much about Abysia position.

As far as I know Abysia has no NAPs, but also no wars. He was fighting with Tien chi, who went AI, but AI did a good job (especially with his immortals) and managed to break Abysia's siege from his capitol. Kailasa just finished conquering Lanka (Lanka and Tien Chi were neighbours) and thus the army on the Abysia border.

Although Abysia is (probably) not in a game-winning position they can largely influence the winner by taking their side (or not taking any sides) in the upcoming Kailasa-Ctis war.

[Carkaton]

Abysia just has to ask himself this, when there are just two nations left, would he rather face a nation of death that has no fire resistance or a nation of astral, earth, and *water*? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Granted my 25% of my sauromancers also have some water, but not any recuitables with 3+ water.

Oh and lets not forget arcane nexus, commonly known as one of the "I win" globals. The other being utterdark, that although I have the ability to, I publicly swear to never cast.

sheesh i feel like i'm running for office.

[Darkstone]

Hello, apologies to everyone.

I've been staling and away from the computer for a while, due to a situation out of my control that's family related, well.. specifically my mother.

Sorry about derailing the game, I have two games I'm in, and this one is less time-consuming than the other. I'll be looking for a sub in that one for the time being, and I think I can find some time for this one.

Once again, I'm quite sorry for staling and not explaining the situation earlier.

[Edi]

Damn. I just managed to hand your nation over to the sub we found, Niarg. I can change it back, but I want warning if you're going to disappear again.

Because if you do, I'll just hand it over to Niarg or someone else permanently.

EDIT: And I need your email address so I can change it back. Send it by PM.

[Niarg]

I don't mind either way, I haven't had a look at the position yet so feel free to take over again as long as you can play it.

[Carkaton]

Welcome back darkstone. Hope everything is alright with you and yours. Things here got a little interesting in your absence.

[Edi]

Darkstone, I need your email address so I can change Abysia back to your control. Please PM it to me.

[Carkaton]

I hope we're not due for more delays, this game has been at a near standstill for a week now.

Anyway now that we are in a lull I thought I'd ask this question, specifically to Edi and Psycho. Since we've had our shares of what ifs and if I could do it over again etc etc, what would you guys say to starting another game together? I don't think my behaviors have made me any friends in this game, but maybe there'd be some good opporunities of revenge?

[Edi]

Niarg is set to do Abysia's turn and I asked him to do it. as far as I'm concerned, Darkstone is out permanently, because I'm not going to keep throwing extensions indefinitely.

As far as a new game, I've got one hell of a week ahead of me. I need to get five or six months worth of school work done and submit it in just six days, then go before a panel of experts to defend it all so I can get a shiny new system specialist diploma. And that's not an exaggeration either. I've been procrastinating about it because I can use older stuff for the most part, but it's still going to be hell. Two weeks after that, I'm off to Sicily for a week and coming back after June 22nd. So I'm not realistically good for a new game before then. But I'd like another game.

[Edi]

Hosting postponed by another 8 hours so Niarg can get Abysia's turn in without staling.

[Niarg]

Ok, I'll send the turn in now.

Darkstone, if you want to keep on playing this game then you'll have to get in touch with Edi before the next turn (53) hosts otherwise I'll assume this is permenant.

[Darkstone]

Alright, I have sent it. Once again, sorry about the situation.

[Psycho]

To Carkaton: I'd like another game, this one has been very interesting so far, and I hope it will get even better when we start fighting. I don't hold any grudge against you. Well at least not yet. We are all playing to win and we have all been plotting and scheming behind each others backs.
Like Edi I would also not start a new game yet. I am currently in another 3-4 games (subbing in some) and will not start a new game until some of these are finished. Also I plan on going to the seaside during the summer, so I am not sure if I would like to start a new game before that.

To Darkstone and Niarg: Please come to an agreement as to who is playing Abysia. We need to have some diplomacy done.

[Carkaton]

Oh yeah, I'm definetly in no hurry to start another one. If dominions has done anything for me it's helped me learn patience with respect to gaming. Kinda funny looking back, I figured out niefel was stalling because I was so wanting the next turn that I'd refresh the llamaserver page every 5 minutes or less in the last hour or two to see if he submitted his turn mostly out of uncontrollable anticipation. Now its much more relaxed.

[Niarg]

Darkstone, as long as you are sure that you can play the turns without stalling then I am happy to give back control to you. If you think that you will continue to stall every few turns then I would rather keep control so that the game can carry on moving.

[Edi]

Try to get the Abysia control issue settled. Darkstone asked for it back, so I went ahead and changed the email and had the server resend the turn, so he also has the following turn now.

In LNB related news, Ulm is going down, but we shall make sure that every step of the way for the conquering armies of C'tis will be littered with the bodies of lizards and the shattered bones of destroyed undead!

The heroic defenders of our capital at Bhamot have scored a significant victory against the invader. Grind the Wraithlord, a merciless killer and scourge of the Ulmish armies, commander of the invasion from our northern border, a legend in the annals of the land, met his final end when he assaulted the defenders of the capital! Our fearless warriors, undaunted by his reputation and magical might, engaged him in combat and with but a single loss of life and some warriors severely wounded, hacked him limb from limb before the very gates!

Paltry as it is with the end coming nigh, sweet indeed the taste of revenge!

------

Well, I have to crow about something, don't I? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Carkaton]

Yeah that was a big mistake. Then again, spending so many gems on a wraithlord probably was anyway.

[Edi]

Darkstone, last call: Are you or are you not going to be able to finish this game? If I do not get a detailed response regarding your future availability for next week, or if that response does not satisfy me, I'm going to irreversibly turn Abysia irreversibly over to Niarg.

My work shift on Monday 19th May starts at 8:00, timezone GMT+2, i.e. 9 hours from now, and I'd better have your answer by then. If I don't, it's game over for you.

[Darkstone]

I'm in, and I'm playing. Was there something wrong with my last turn?

[Edi]

No. Just that you'd been inconsistent in when you replied and were around and I don't want to find myself faced with a situation where we need to wonder whether you stay around or not.

Sorry if I've been snappish. I've got the week from hell ahead of me, piled on top of the last week from hell, so keeping track of anything extra is sort of a strain. Needing to do five months worth of schoolwork in two weeks sort of does that...

[Darkstone]

It's understandable, May is extremely stressful for myself as well, and last week I had to deal with a hospital on top of that. So let's just say I relate and no hard feelings.

Anyway, I'm doing my best and I'll be more than happy to bow out to a replacement if despite my efforts that won't be enough.

Besides, the only thing I really messed up were my own chances of winning this game, which started pretty high, due mostly to extreme luck (and are still above zero at the moment).

[Carkaton]

Could I get a two hour extension? I forgot this game is hosting so much earlier in the evening for now. I haven't looked at it yet and it's bedtime. By the time I get home from work it'll be ready to host in 10 minutes.

[Psycho]

I vote that we switch quickhost off. I liked the time that the game hosted the previous several turns, because it was 5am local time and there was no way I didn't finish my turn by then. So we could put a 2-3 hour extension for this turn and then turn off the quickhost.

[Edi]

I'll do that. If you guys tell me what timezones you're in, I can fix things easy enough. Right now it's set to host at midnight GMT, so a 10-hour extension would put it at 8 am GMT, so roughly midnight or 1am EST. Then turn quickhost off and that should do things.

[Edi]

Okay, postponed 10 hours, quickhost off. So the deadlines are now around 2 am EST every 48 hours.

[Psycho]

You pushed it too far forward. It would be ideal if it hosted at 3:00 or 4:00 GMT according to server time. So you should move it 6-7 hours back.

BTW, the server is still on winter time as far as I can see. It doesn't show correct time, but GMT - 1h.

My time zone is GMT+1.

[Edi]

Okay. I can do that. Moved forward by 6 hours, so it hosts around 4am GMT.

[Carkaton]

Wow, province 69 sure is something.

[Edi]

Quite. Too bad I only found the astral sites so late or the game would have looked different on that score too...

[Psycho]

I am having some problems with my computer at home. I can't connect to the internet. It's probably a virus. I will try some antivirus software when I return from work and if it doesn't help I'll format the disk. But it will probably take me a whole day and tomorrow I don't have enough time to do my turn. Could we delay by 24h?

[Edi]

I'll delay it.

[Psycho]

Thanks

[Edi]

Don't forget to patch to 3.17, guys, as the server has been patched. If you are using Linux and are having problems, uninstall Dom3, then reinstall and patch directly to 3.17. Coobe had some trouble on Ubuntu and got rid of it that way.

[Psycho]

What happened to 3.16?

[Edi]

It was the interim patch that we bugtested to iron out all the blatant stuff so the release version would be okay. Version 3.17 was released today. The version numbers took a hiccup with the fix from 3.14 to 3.15 to eliminate the scale bug.

[Edi]

So, C'tis has finally breached the gates of Ulm. Now let him come and dig us out, if he has the resources to do it...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

[Carkaton]

I'll take Epic failures for 1000 alex......


I don't think I could have won that battle, but the way in which i lost it makes it that much worse. I definetly need to work on my castle taking skills.

[Edi]

Hum. I thought I might do some damage, but that was brutal. Well, I did warn you that I have a long, bony reach from the grave! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

For those who did not have scouts in place:

The might of C'tis (http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/Dom3/Pics/LeafNosedBat_T62_Battle_CtisForces.jpg)

The aftermath:

http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/Dom3/Pics/LeafNosedBat_T62_BattleReport_small.jpg

The ones that got away were the prophet, the mound fiend and the titan, though the titan got herself a nice limp as a souvenir. Wish I hadn't lost the fireballers and the ice druid, though, but it was inevitable that I'd lose a lot of commanders with the scripts I had. The main point was in eliminating as many C'tissian mages as possible and in that regard, it was an unqualified success.

[Carkaton]

My biggest screwup was my impatience. I was sending a scout to see what you had the turn before, but psycho dropped a seraph on me that casted returning after 2 turns. Unfortunately my probe commander was on the back row scripted to retreat. Which canceled his scouting attack.

So the next turn I said screw it and went head first into brick wall. Which resulted in a bunch of sauros spamming fear on undead units. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

The other mistakes were having 1 too few gems for darkness(not that that would have helped), not even trying to dispel/override GoH, and didn't learn from my first mistake of putting my mages forward in hopes they'd cast on mages.

Live and learn though. Hopefully you guys learn from my mistakes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkstone]

You should feel pride Carkaton, not only are we learning from your mistakes, we're also getting entertained.

Quite a bargain. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Psycho]

The idea was to screw up your scripting. I figured that a seraph is mighty enough so that your mages would use up their gems. I though you would attack on the first turn like when you sieged my castle.

I knew what Edi was planning and I actually thought that he would devastate you. But I expected that he would protect his mages better and not take such heavy loses himself.

[Carkaton]

Edi, I doubt you'll read this before the turn submits, but I forgot that I have to go to a wedding, I submitted a half-assed turn, but if you happen to see this and extend it a few hours so I can finish it up I'd appreciate it.

[Edi]

Sorry, didn't see it in time. Was out all night and slept late.

Psycho, I had no means of protecting my mages any better. No access to luck items or much in the way of armor. Or astral casters, because Luck can do wonders. A lot of the losses were just witches I'd used as researchers, so doesn't matter. My core mages are still around, except for three good ones who died. I knew I was going to get hit bad myself even despite the GoH. If not for it, my tactics would not have been viable. So I expect the next attempt or the one after that will finish me off, but we shall see.

At least Shardoz won't go down without a fight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Carkaton]

This weekend showed to be very busy for me. Summertime has finally showed up and its getting difficult to stay inside and take the time needed to do a proper turn. On the weekdays it isn't a problem though.

I was wondering if we can take weekends off. If not I can't see myself playing 100% and might have to get a sub.

[Edi]

Was for me as well, but fortunately I'm going to be dead in the next couple of turns if this keeps up. Out of curiosity, how many Manifestations backfired on you?

As far as taking weekends off, not a problem for me, but you guys are going to have to find someone else to admin the game by the end of the week because I'll be gone all next week.

[Psycho]

I don't mind the game slowing down a bit. We could play three turns a week. For example we could follow a Sunday / Tuesday / Thursday schedule or a Monday / Wednesday / Friday one. Or the schedule can stay like it is now, but whoever gets to be admin will grant extensions generously, especially over the weekend.

Please don't look for a sub. I would like to finish the game with the people I started and whom I've fought the last 10-ish turns.

[Carkaton]

Edi: I didn't have any manifestations come back. The 50% chance applies to each commander, so I had 30ish commanders to go through before the angel would get back to the caster. So unless you only have 4 or 5 commanders in a province, a manifestation is going to go through.

Also if you want to just give the admin password to all of us Edi, I doubt any of us are going to mess with the game. If we need an extension we can just announce it and do it ourselves.

[Edi]

Ah, I had a mistaken impression about Manifestation mechanics then.

I'll PM the admin password to you lot.

[Psycho]

I have delayed hosting by 24 hours. I hope no one minds. I've been entangled the whole day with a homework that is due tomorrow and I'm simply too tired to play the turn now. I thought I would finish it a lot earlier, but some stupid bugs took me forever to find.

[Carkaton]

That's fine by me. I had horseshoe league tonight and was looking at rushing yet another turn.

[Darkstone]

I am in no rush to win the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Darkstone]

Just in case some of you were wondering.
Despite spending the time to do a carefully planned out turn, and sending it in, somehow I got a stale... not sure why. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Psycho]

You should check the status page on the llamaserver to see whether your turn has been accepted. At least that's what I do.

[Edi]

I'm leaving for Sicily on the morning plane, so I have set myself to AI. Let's see what the comp will do with what little I had left.

Take care, guys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkstone]

Take care Edi.

Have a safe and enjoyable trip.

[Psycho]

Probably slam itself against the sieging force, that is the worst possible thing.

It's been fun playing with you Edi. Take care.

[Psycho]

I've put another 12 hours on the timer because there's been no sign of Carkaton. I see that he's staled in another game as well. Carkaton if you finish your turn in time, please revert the timer to appropriate time.

Darkstone, have you had any contact with him? Should we look for a sub or wait for him some more?

[Darkstone]

Nope, no contact.

He only staled once recently... so let's give him a chance. However, if he stales again and doesn't pop up on the forum in the next 48 hours, we should perhaps seek a sub.

[Psycho]

If he stales this turn it could be devastating for him. And I cannot leave my armies standing and not attacking him, because I will need to move them south for you, after either destroying the sieging force or him lifting the siege.

I have put another 12 hours on the timer. I don't think we should let Ctis stale now. If he doesn't show up in this 12 hours, I will ask for a temp sub and postpone by another 48 hours for the sub to play the turn or him to show up. Do you think this is OK?

[Darkstone]

As far as I can tell, he hasn't signed onto the forum in the last 5 days.

So I suppose it's alright to look for a sub. It's a shame because we're reaching the last most epic turns, where the final showdown reveals the winner.

[Psycho]

We could wait some more. But then we will end up waiting again for the sub player if he doesn't show up. How long do you think we should wait before announcing that we need a sub?

[jimkehn]

With the arrival of the new administration for the nation of C'Tis, we would like to announce that we hope all diplomatic relationshipsw will remain as they were.

[Darkstone]

Very well, our alliance continues against the hated seraphs.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Psycho]

Your hordes of devils and undead minions can never win against such divine power.

[Psycho]

Jim, thank you for storming that castle. I was afraid you would pull your troops out. Even if Carkaton hadn't staled and stormed it last turn, he would have had zero chances of success.

[jimkehn]

HAHAHA!!! Psycho....I don't know what happened. I think my Tartarian went mad!!!! Anyway...he'd a got his arse whipped. I woulda had a lot more troops in there. But don't worry, more are on their way. With some special treats for the Seraph. Where did the Golems go?? Man those guys are nasty!!! I don't think I can whip you by myself. I sure need some major help from Abysia!!!

[Psycho]

Ooo I like treats. Can't wait to get them.

Golems safely teleported to my capitol. It's the spell Returning.

[Psycho]

Hey, what happened to my treats? I was really looking forward to them.

[jimkehn]

HAHA....Is Abysia still playing? I don't see how C'tis can defeat Kailasa. And with all the units to order, it's just too much work.

[Darkstone]

Sorry I staled, real life got in the way.

[jimkehn]

OK....was just wondering.

[Psycho]

Darkstone, why didn't you just extend the turn? That is the point of having the password.

[Darkstone]

I would have, if I thought I wouldn't have made it home in time.

:|

[Darkstone]

Postponing for 24 hours, as I'm leaving now for a party, won't get back in time.

[Psycho]

Have a good time

[jimkehn]

Dammit!!

8^)

Treats delivered, as promised, Psycho!!!

[Psycho]

Yes, valiant defenders of the Hesperia castle won yet another battle. And this one was no less devastating for the enemy than the previous ones. But be proud new Ctissian leader, for never before has Hesperia suffered so many loses in one battle (3 units). The great evil of this world, Daidalos the Tartarian Titan, is no more. Free people of Hesperia will celebrate this day. (It was a very lucky shot paralizing him in the first attempt.)

Jim did you know that the odds of getting a tartarian titan with 7 astral levels is 0.2%. What exactly were your treats? I guess they didn't work quite as planned.

[jimkehn]

You didn't find all those Wight carcasses tasty??? Lore has it that Monkeys LOVE dead Wight!!!

Daidalos was an S9 when I got him with his boosters. I have no idea if the original guy got him as an S7 or if he empowered his way up the ladder. He will be missed, and woulda been far more effective doing other things rather than succumming to a paralyze spell on a battlefield.

Sheesh!!!!

[Psycho]

Oh, so wights were the treat. Well I knew about them.

He got Daidalos as an S7. Tartarian titans (the male ones) have 7 random levels. I am very glad I killed him, he could cast some very mean spells.

[Darkstone]

So, C'tis had a S9?

I assumed it was Kailasa, but now I have to ask: Who wished for the chalice?

[Psycho]

It was me. I had several feebleminded mind hunters, a lot diseased troops from those leprosies and Tartarians were on the way. Don't worry, your ally was trustworthy.

[Darkstone]

Alright, that was a pretty good move, though the only reason I had the chalice was because C'tis sent it to me to keep the game challenging for us both against you...

I never even used the chalice myself (don't use tarts), so it was just sitting in my lab.

Now though, I suspect the game should be more than challenging for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Psycho]

I know he sent it to you. He told me in our massive PM conversation at the time. It was so that you two would be more balanced, that is, so that he wouldn't surpass you by too much, thus keeping you on his side. You realized I was becoming too powerful, so you allied with him. If you thought he was the most powerful, you would have allied with me.

I think I cast the Nexus too soon. I should have gotten you on my side against Ctis first. But then again, at that time I thought Ctis was my ally and I was ready to strike you. And he did tell me in a PM, when he put the well of misery up, that he is OK with me casting nexus. Actually that's when I got the idea to do it.

Oh, and if he didn't send the chalice to you at that time, I would have wished for it then. It wouldn't help me then, but it would keep him from becoming too strong.

And Darkstone, you could have used tarts if you wanted. In fact you still can. You certainly don't lack magic levels to reach them.

[Psycho]

Since we are in the late game stage where we access to practically everything, but didn't agree up front about what is bad sportsmanship and should be avoided, I thought putting here things that I saw are generally agreed on in other games. So to be avoided are:

1) Mists of Deception + Battlefield Enchantments + Retreat

2) Filling someone's lab with slave collars (or any other items) - basically no sending of items to anyone you didn't agree with.

3) If you capture Bogus company, you can leave them with their "attack mage" or "attack commander" orders, but not copy/paste those orders to other commanders.

4) Casting a battlefield wide continuous spell and then immediately running away. All mages that cast a battlefield wide enchantment need to stay on the battlefield for 5 complete turns. The very last order can be to retreat.

5) Moving slow troops quickly, that is moving troops more provinces than they can using a commander on move and patrol orders.

6) Sallying from your sieged castle into a neighboring province with non-stealthy troops.


I hope there are no objections on this. If there are, lets discuss them.

[Darkstone]

I find tarts to be too much of a standard strategy (though I admit I've never used them outside of one SP game). If I used them, I most likely wouldn't sit here trying to come up with some different methods of winning battles or strategies to win the game. I find that by being forced to do the unexpected, I both grow as a player, and it gives a minor advantage tactically.

I also find going for tarts somewhat significant of an investment, you really need to summon a decent number of them to get the really good ones, and you need to get either the GOH global, or the chalice to make the most out your investment. Not to mention the huge amount of nature gems you'd likely be going through.

Rushing artifact construction was definitely not part of my strategy, (I haven't even gotten around to it yet, though hitting 6 early was very important), and my nature income is rather limited.

All of this would be a much bigger problem for me, if I wasn't reasonably equipped with some Anti-SC capability... as Abysia blood and astral are relatively common.

[Psycho]

I've had a lot of luck with tarts. The first one I summoned was exactly the one I wanted and he was a commander and not feebleminded. But yes, it was an investment getting to them.

I suppose hitting 6 was important because of lanterns? I didn't rush to construction either. I knew Cits would get there first, so there was no point. I rushed for alteration 9 and thau 6 to get all the buffs for my yavanas (and wish of course).

I look forward to seeing what surprises you have developed for me.

[Darkstone]

Lanterns were very important to make up lost research. Despite the horrormark malus and the attention skull mentors get, lanterns are actually the best research bang for the gem buck. And I've only lost one mage to a horror throughout the entire game.

Also, while I realize it's strange to ask someone about their strategy as they're employing it, I just don't get what you're doing with the yogi / golem pairs. You're losing yogi's... wasting tons of astral gems moving them back and forth, and you keep feeding me starshine skullcaps all for the price of a few slaves. Not that I'm not complaining, but it just seems real wasteful for you, and stands in stark contrast with most of the other things you've been employing.

[Psycho]

Well I thought it was obvious - it's a demonstration of might. If I am throwing this many astral gems per turn, then think how big my astral income must be.

Seriously, though, those were some rather unsuccessful attempts to destroy your blood economy.

[Darkstone]

Hm, yeah I suppose it's hard to take them out without risking losing whatever you're sending.

Still, it's nothing like the eye-rolling mistakes I keep making... most notorious the non-seperation of fire-immune troops/mages from all the heat-aura ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Psycho]

I am going on my vacation on 8th july. I've booked 15 nights, which means that with days lost in transport and preparation/packing I won't be able to play for about 20 days. I wanted to ask you guys whether you could wait for me. I'd hate to give my nation to someone else now. But then again, I also don't want you to lose interest in the game. So tell me - can you wait for me or should I look for a sub? And don't worry, there will be no hard feelings if you can't wait for me, although it would mean a lot to me if you could.

[jimkehn]

We'll wait. Speaking for only myself, of course. I don't have the vested interest in this game that you 2 have, and in fact am just now getting comfortable with what I have and where I am on the map. But, I see no reason to drop the game when one goes on vacation. One nice thing about computer games vs. table top games.....you don't have the maps and pieces layin around forever taking up space. Just load it in 3 weeks from now and the cat hasn't been able to touch it!!!!

[Darkstone]

I can be patient, after all, it is just a game... (waits for people to gasp and cry out in horror)...

So I'm with jimkehn on this one; besides, it wouldn't be very much of a friendly game if we did otherwise.

Enjoy your vacation... also I should probably mention Psycho, I totally hate you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
With the American dollar weak, and (due to the vast debt and China&Japan acquiring more treasury bonds) getting weaker for the forseeable future, there's no real vacation (like a trip somewhere nice like Europe) for me this summer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Out of curiosity, where are you going?

[Psycho]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. I owe you one now. Just don't change your mind while I'm away.

Don't hate me Darkstone, I'm not going anywhere glamorous. The idea is just to spend some time at the sea. I'm going to Chalkidiki, Greece.

Oh, and tell me who of you guys is sending those assassins? Jim is it you?

[jimkehn]

Assassins??? Moi???

I see my turn staled?? I was sure I sent in the turn!!!!

[Psycho]

On the server it says we all staled, but I received my turn in the mail normally. Try the "Request turn resend" option if you didn't receive your turn.

[Darkstone]

Alright, but that still sounds real nice.

I have tons of assassins throughout Kailasan lands, most of them biding their time to strike, though some mages always insist on killing now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

--

Also, I received two turns. So it seems like the llamaserver hosted twice, which is why we all have stales. The turn should still be rather fair, since when everyone stales, only the AI wins.

[Psycho]

I didn't mean slayers, but the actual assassin unit, or do you have those as well?

I didn't receive two turns, just one. So now I asked for turn resend and received the staled turn. But the thing is that the staled turn is turn 72, and in the mail it said I received turn 71. I hope this doesn't cause further problems.

Edit: I asked llamabeast to rollback the turn. I already did most of my turn and spent a lot of time, I'd hate to have to do it all again.

Edit 2: I just realized that maybe you were playing on the staled turn and spent a lot of yours time. In that case lets leave it as it is. I'd prefer to rollback if you didn't do much though - for consistency, my almost done turn and lost research.

[llamabeast]

Just in case you didn't get the message, we've rolled back, and the one to play is the one where you didn't stale.

[jimkehn]

Yeah, let's go ahead and play the original turn 71 as the llamamessage says. I did get two turns, and I did load in the latter turn. I have now saved the original turn over top that one, and have the real turn 71.

[jimkehn]

OK....I just cannnot defend against Kailasa. He has way too powerful units for me. We can either find a sub, or the two of you divide the C'tisian spoils as you wish.

[Darkstone]

Giving up after just 2 weeks? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

He's barely taken any of your territory, though you did drop the ball with Ulm.

Look, I'm losing units left and right as well, mostly useless scouts and commanders, but mages too, to nearly endless amounts of mindhunts. That's what happens when he has the nexus, and the chalice to heal those feebleminded yogi's everytime he stumbles on one of my astral mages. He's also teleporting tons of stuff with tons of astral pearls. My strategy is all about using a lot less resources than he is, and I'm feel I'm certainly succeeding in that, though I'm still building up patiently in preparation of overwhelming power. All you have to do is hold on.

Playing against a more powerful (as well as skilled) opponent has been a very great experience, and very educational. Don't give up just yet. I'll leave you with this quote, "You can only become smarter by playing against smarter opponents."

[Edi]

What actually happened with Ulm when I set it to AI? Psycho said something about the AI busting out, which it was obviously going to do, but details would be nice to know. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Psycho]

Jim please don't leave yet. Yes the scales have tipped in my favour and now I am on the attack, but you can still mess me up. Just bunker yourself into castles. As you've seen while sieging my castles, it's much easier to defend then to attack.

Edi, Ulm has now taken several provinces around capitol. What details would you like to know? I saw the battle when he broke the siege, but not the later ones. But I think he mostly defeated just pd in the surrounding provinces.

[Edi]

What? Is the AI Ulm still alive?! Yes, I'd like to know the details of the the breakout and just how much damage he did. It's probable that Shardoz & company have been mauling PD in the surrounding provinces, but he had a pretty serious stackof equipment when I went AI, so taking him out is not going to be easy without anti-SC methods, especially if the AI kept the script I'd put on him.

What happened to the Gift of Health? Did that go down and did the AI screw up with the mage who cast it? Because he was nowhere near my capital when it was under siege to make certain it didn't come down due to bad luck.

[jimkehn]

I finally stormed Ulm's castle. Ulm's PoD killed my PoD. Then he started expanding into C'Tis territory. C'Tis is building an army to counter him, but hasn't attacked yet.

[Edi]

jimkehn said:
I finally stormed Ulm's castle. Ulm's PoD killed my PoD. Then he started expanding into C'Tis territory. C'Tis is building an army to counter him, but hasn't attacked yet.


http://www.badhippo.com/sue/pics/smilies/rofl.gif
I just knew that Duskdagger had to be good for something and the scavenged Monolith Armor was certainly a better alternative than a Hydra Skin Armor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm starting to get a grip on why C'tis's once seemingly unstoppable advance has slowed down some. First Carkaton sent his main army chinfirst into the springdriven fist I'd been winding back for several turns (see battle report pics earlier) and then Shardoz goes berserk and exacts personal revenge, that's goddamn priceless! I see that my prediction of not going quietly came truer than I ever expected...

http://www.badhippo.com/sue/pics/smilies/rofl.gif

[jimkehn]

Yeah, you were right about that!! Ulm is exacting revenge, on helpless PD of onesies and twosies. I doubt I will be able to harm him much now, as Kailasa is chewin me up and spittin me out like a handful a sunflower seeds!!

[Psycho]

If I remember correctly, your PoD was sieging my castle jimkehn - I killed him with some solar rays. And you didn't storm Ulm's castle, but the defenders broke the siege. Maybe you intended, but breaking the siege comes before storming. You had a bunch of unfrozen who were near your mages and their chill aura screwed the mages. After that Ulm first expanded into some abysian territory and then into some ctisian territory. Gift of health is still up.

[jimkehn]

OH!! I thought it was in Ulm's castle. It was like my first turn as C'Tis that I stormed the castle, and I did give them the order to storm castle, but you are probably right about them breaking forth, as you were probly more engaged in the game then.

Now that I think it about it, you are right. That was the battle where you had like 25 or 30 yogis and brahmas communing and cast solar rays all over the place.

[Psycho]

How many gems did you use?

[Psycho]

Darkstone, I may have won that battle, but you are the real winner of this turn. I am really curious - how many gems did you use?

I am traveling in less than 24 hours. I won't be able to finish this turn before I leave. I've put 1000 hours on the clock, but don't worry, I'll come back a lot sooner. Thanks again for agreeing to wait for me.

[jimkehn]

Psycho....I am in the middle of wheat harvest and was ready to ask for a delay, anyway. Maybe I will have time to do a decent turn for a change!!!