Luck and mind duels

[Ylvali]

I recently played MA atlantis in a MP game. When I sent my s2 w3 kings against Arco and he answered with s4 mages casting mind duels.

The strange thing is that I won 3 of 4 duels even though he had so much higher astral.

All my kings had luck items, could that be the explanation? If luck counters mind duels that would be very useful. If not can someone tell if there is some other factor in play.

Or maybe I was just very lucky?

[B0rsuk]

Arcoscephale doesn't have mages with base s4, so he must've used boosters. Only natural talent counts for duels. Communion, boosters etc won't help. But empower may help a little.

[Endoperez]

I'm still intrigued by the original question. Luck help against things like Soul Slay and Ethereal Crossbow, which are basically 999 magic damage. In theory, Magic Duel might just deal lots of unresistable, AN damage...

So, has anyone tested whether Luck can help you survive a lost duel?

[Xietor]

Arcos does get many astrologers with 4s magic though. rarely 5.

[Ylvali]

In this case it was s4 mages, without boosters or anything.

I know it could be just luck (real life version) but I´d really like to know.

[Xietor]

I doubt luck helps. Magic duel seems to be a different animal. Likely just got good rolls. If you are wearing armor of virtue and lose a magic duel, i think you are dead and do not return to the capital. That is an educated guess, however. Did not test it.

[Ylvali]

I am making a test now.

[Sir_Dr_D]

What happens when you have Phoenix Pyre on, and get magic dueled? WOuld you survive?

[NTJedi]

Ylvali said:
I am making a test now.



results??

[AreaOfEffect]

The guide to the game explains the exact mechanics of Mage Duel. It's the astral level of your mage plus 1d6 versus the other mage's astral level plus 1d6. The difference between your mage's adtral level and the others were only 2, meaning your random die roll had to be above the opponents roll by 3 for 3 of those rolls.

Granted the chances of that happening out of only 4 attempts is low (1out of 54 to be exact), it still is possible. In fact, the law of averages demands that it happen when done in enough iterations.

My personal opinion is that luck certainly had something to do with it, just not the sort of luck you are referring to.

P.S.: Your odds of taking out one of his mages wasn't really that bad. He had only a 4 out of 9 chance of clean sweep. That means that 5 out of 9 times he would lose or tie to you at least once.

[Endoperez]

I counted that there was 30/36 chance of an Atlantian mage dying, personally. That included victories for Arcos as well as ties (both die).

Arcos (S4) - Atlantis (S2) wins
1 vs 1, 2
2 vs 1, 2, 3,
3 vs 1, 2, 3, 4,
4 vs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
5 vs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
6 vs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

or 26 chances out of 36 (6*6).

Atlantis ties:
1 vs 3, 2 vs 4, 3 vs 5, 4 vs 6

or 4 times out of 36.

Ends up as 30/36 or 5/6 chance of Atlantian mages dying, for each Duel. I think that'd be (1/6)^3 or 1/216 or so chance of three mages not dying, out of three.

[thejeff]

I'm pretty sure luck (the ability, not the roll) doesn't affect Magic Duel. As I understand it, someone always dies in a duel, sometimes both. If luck applied as normal, it would have a chance of saving the loser and no one would die. Which is not what we see.

It's possible that the loser's luck causes the winner to die instead, but that would be weird.

[Zeldor]

I think Dominions may have not the best random generator. For example strange results come when you recruit mages with small random [like 2,5-5%] and you get no random like that with 100+ mages recruited.

[Endoperez]

With 5% random random, there's 8% chance of not getting it in 50 tries. (1-0.05)^50 == 0.077. With 2.5% random (10% chance with four options, only one of which is the one you want), the chance of not getting that random in 50 tries is 28%, and 8% in 100 tries. Sometimes you just get unlucky.

There seem to be weird numbers thrown around sometimes, but they're very hard to test.

[Gregstrom]

8% is a pretty good chance of something not happening, really. The times when you get that 2.5% chance on your first recruit aren't mentioned so often (I've kept rather quiet when the 2.5% comes up in just the right way at the right time in an MP game, now I think about it...).

[StormCrow434]

All were Arco Astrologers...but they were two S4s and one S3. The lone S4 who won died the second time around (my Prophet).

So I lost a +2 Duel, then a +1, won a +2 and finally lost a +2. No ties.

Love to hear how Ylvali's test came out...I'd suggest trying it with a +6 difference. If the lower Astral mage wins then, you KNOW the shield is working! Try 10 tests, or until the lesser prevails.

[NTJedi]

StormCrow434 said:

Love to hear how Ylvali's test came out...I'd suggest trying it with a +6 difference.



Ylvali hasn't returned to the forums since he went to perform the testing. I imagine Ylvali must have included himself in the mind duel testing and lost.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[AreaOfEffect]

Never Mind Duel with yourself. You will always lose.

[mathusalem]

lol

[Ylvali]

NTJedi said:

StormCrow434 said:

Love to hear how Ylvali's test came out...I'd suggest trying it with a +6 difference.



Ylvali hasn't returned to the forums since he went to perform the testing. I imagine Ylvali must have included himself in the mind duel testing and lost.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Sorry I´ve been busy. That test took some time to set up and then I got bored with it. I´ll get back to ye when it´s don with complete results. Promise.

[Saxon]

If you are thinking of testing it on me, you may find I am not entirely cooperative!

It is unlikely luck has an impact, as it would be too powerful. +3 or -3 due to luck would overpower the original levels in S.

[Ylvali]

Ok so I put 8 s1 mages with pendeant of luck against 8 s3 mages casting mind duel. Results 2-6.

So it seems luck does not effect mind duels.