Gath, dev diary or something

[Kristoffer O]

I started to write this post as an answer to Wraithlord, but I figured it would be better to place in a new thread.

I have long waited with Gath, since I'm very fond of ancient near eastern myth. I have always felt a bit worried that they would not become what I imagined, so I've waited. From time to time I have done some research, but never very focused. A couple of weeks ago I got inspired and did a lot of research and begun with descriptions. It was about at the same time as the 3.15 was in beta, so I could not work on the game per se.

I started to write descriptions while reading, which was rewarding. Old ideas were combined with new ones, and soon Gath, the LA version of the nation took form. Gath is the most israelite of the three nations. It draws inspiration from philistines and the israelites before the diaspora. The cult is centered around the Great Temple. From Gath, the few remaining giants rule their human subjects.
The humans of Gath live subjugated by the gittite giants, denied even the lore of iron-working. (Philistines used iron, but kept it from the israelis).
The gittites are descendants of the Rephaim, mighty giants of an earlier age (EA and MA).

Ashdod (MA) is a nation of Rephaim giants. A few human immigrants have been enslaved and used in warfare, but they are as rare as they are worthless. Ashdod is one of the cities of the Anakim, mightiest of the Rephaim and pure-blooded descendants of the godlike Nephilim of the earliest time.

Hinnom (EA) is a nation of Rephaim and lesser giants. The blood of the Nephilim runs strong and the Rephaim are few but powerful. Avvites and Horim (lesser giants) compose much of the population.

So far:
Gath is finished.
Ashdod is lacking commanders, mages and sacred units.
Hinnom only has Horites and Avvites as of yet.

I have not begun work on summons yet.

[Gregstrom]

I'm really anticipating seeing these nations. I wonder what sort of magic we'll be looking at? My first thought was that Blood and Fire seemed appropriate to some degree, based on the bits I remember from the Bible.

[Wrana]

And is Arabo-Persian faction planned? I can't wait for genie!

[quantum_mechani]

Kristoffer O said:
I started to write this post as an answer to Wraithlord, but I figured it would be better to place in a new thread.

I have long waited with Gath, since I'm very fond of ancient near eastern myth. I have always felt a bit worried that they would not become what I imagined, so I've waited. From time to time I have done some research, but never very focused. A couple of weeks ago I got inspired and did a lot of research and begun with descriptions. It was about at the same time as the 3.15 was in beta, so I could not work on the game per se.

I started to write descriptions while reading, which was rewarding. Old ideas were combined with new ones, and soon Gath, the LA version of the nation took form. Gath is the most israelite of the three nations. It draws inspiration from philistines and the israelites before the diaspora. The cult is centered around the Great Temple. From Gath, the few remaining giants rule their human subjects.
The humans of Gath live subjugated by the gittite giants, denied even the lore of iron-working. (Philistines used iron, but kept it from the israelis).
The gittites are descendants of the Rephaim, mighty giants of an earlier age (EA and MA).

Ashdod (MA) is a nation of Rephaim giants. A few human immigrants have been enslaved and used in warfare, but they are as rare as they are worthless. Ashdod is one of the cities of the Anakim, mightiest of the Rephaim and pure-blooded descendants of the godlike Nephilim of the earliest time.

Hinnom (EA) is a nation of Rephaim and lesser giants. The blood of the Nephilim runs strong and the Rephaim are few but powerful. Avvites and Horim (lesser giants) compose much of the population.

So far:
Gath is finished.
Ashdod is lacking commanders, mages and sacred units.
Hinnom only has Horites and Avvites as of yet.

I have not begun work on summons yet.

I think just for variety I'm going to have to mod in a nation of little short creatures that enslave giants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[llamabeast]

Hoburg Niefelmasters!

[Kristoffer O]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Hey Ogre Kingdoms have Slave Giants. Slave Giants compared with Ogres are like Jotuns compared with humans, so I think that counts.

[WraithLord]

KO, your post/diary is very enlightening.

Have you considered adding specific pretenders/summons based on the gods, daemons, worshiped at this era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deities_in_the_Hebrew_Bible), prominent among them:
1. "Ashtoret", aka Astarte, Goddess of fertility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte) was associated with the deamon Astaroth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth)

2. Ba'al Zebûb, the lord of flies, a deamon prince/god worshiped by the Philistine

3. Dagon, already here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

4. Moloch, A fertility god to which humans were sacrificed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch)

5. Angel orders, for which I'm sure you know much more than myself. I just want to point to this nice site the supposedly has a complete list of the angel and daemon orders according to Christianity, http://www.heart7.net/spirit/top.html.


In any case I'm *sure* the nations will come out great and I'm really looking forward to the next patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[HoneyBadger]

I'm actually working on (and have most of the artwork done for) an EA nation of giants that enslave dwarfs and trolls. In the MA version, the dwarfs have overthrown the giants and built their own nation, but I haven't started on that yet. Enslaved giants, trolls, minotaurs, and maybe a dragon or two will be a major element.

[Dedas]

Dwarfs, dragons and trolls! You can't go wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

WraithLord said:
KO, your post/diary is very enlightening.

Have you considered adding specific pretenders/summons based on the gods, daemons, worshiped at this era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deities_in_the_Hebrew_Bible), prominent among them:
1. "Ashtoret", aka Astarte, Goddess of fertility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte) was associated with the deamon Astaroth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth)

2. Ba'al Zebûb, the lord of flies, a deamon prince/god worshiped by the Philistine

3. Dagon, already here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

4. Moloch, A fertility god to which humans were sacrificed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch)

5. Angel orders, for which I'm sure you know much more than myself. I just want to point to this nice site the supposedly has a complete list of the angel and daemon orders according to Christianity, http://www.heart7.net/spirit/top.html.


In any case I'm *sure* the nations will come out great and I'm really looking forward to the next patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I have not considered pretender gods at this stage. Most gods of the time were fertility gods. Many gods are named something along the line of M'l'q and Ba'al (king/lord etc). EA Hinnom will get Melqarts and Ba'als as home only commanders. They will be the direct descendants of the Nephilim and approximately on the same power level as Niefel Jarls.

Dagon was actually a fertility god as well (probably dying and rebirthing, as most are), and not a fish god. I'm not sure when he became a fish, but I think it was sometime during antiquity. Nowdays he is more of a lovecraftian monster than a god http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

According to some tales it was Goliath who captured the Ark and placed it in the temple of Dagon.

I will use some of the angelic order stuff, but I want the angelic beings to be more otherworldy and unfathomable, like the visions of the merkavah mysticism and Ezekiel. So I will focus on the bizzare order angels like wheels and thrones (Ophanim and Merkavah, if I'm not mistaken) and leave the rest for Marignon. How I will draw them is beyond me atm, but I hope my imagination can take the step off the cliff of sanity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

---

Work is proceeding splendidly. I started to work on Gath, because I found them fun and easy to imagine. I also felt a bit ovewhelmed by the earlier eras. I had no idea on how I wanted the Repahim to look.

When Gath was finished I felt a bit saddened that the earlier eras would not feel as cool. The Kohen Gadol of Gath was remarkably impressive.

Then I started on Ashdod, and I became surprised that they turned out even cooler than Gath. Pity, though I, that the Early age would be the most boring of the three.

So I started with Hinnom. And now I stare in disbelief at my creation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . They are a bit short on regular units, so I will have to work a bit more, but I'm quite happy with their commanders.

Since the Giants are big, I have been able to add more details than I usually do. It has been quite rewarding, but time consuming. I've spent more than 12 hour on 9 units today. Some of them are similar with variations, so most of my time went into three units and reworking of their descriptions.

[Saulot]

Hm... you're certainly building up expectations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I have to say my interested is piqued, and I think I speak for everyone when I say that this dev diary is a good idea.

[WraithLord]

seconded, the diary is awesome and expectations are at all time high http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Endoperez]

Bah! This isn't the first Dev Diary. I still have copies of the ones that told us the first things about a whole era of Niefelheim-type nations and huge mage-thugs. I still remember reading about the old age mechanics, and being in awe.

I also remember the times after this forum was up, but before there was a demo or even the preordered games had been shipped. Oh, the weird threads we had... I also had a fun time updating a "screenies" thread showing many things like common, everyday units, and giving the other Seraph when someone asked how Caelum was changed, etc etc.

This is rather nice, but nowhere near that level. I mean, what's another awesome nation after so many OTHER awesome nations?

[Kristoffer O]

Bah! on you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Other nations are not Biblical. This is a nation of Biblical proportions. Thus Grand, thus more expectations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Tremble before the Rephaim!

Seriously though, I'm satisfied with the nation. Generally I like my later nations more. I think I'm steering towards culture more and more. I didn't do much research when I begun dom-ppp, since there was no particular need. I knew enough to make a somewhat generic roman nation, but later on got annoyed that Pythium didn't have diverse legionnaries, so they were remade into hastatii, principes etc. The later nations are more historically grounded, for good or bad (perhaps not Agartha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ).

Personally I like the oldest nations least. Man, Pytium, Ulm and Marignon have been with me for over a decade, and I do percieve them as a bit generic. I like LA Pythium far better than MA, and I Like LA Ulm better then MA (the new MA stuff helps though).

[capnq]

Kristoffer O said: Dagon was actually a fertility god as well (probably dying and rebirthing, as most are), and not a fish god. I'm not sure when he became a fish, but I think it was sometime during antiquity.

According to this site (http://www.bible-history.com/past/dagon.html), Dagon was depicted in the form of a merman.

[Kristoffer O]

Dagon is likely a distortion of the west-semitic god Dagan, a fertility diety, and in several texts father of Ba'al. Etymologically Dagan means grain. The fact that dag means fish is probably the reason he later on become considered a fish god. Since there are few sources on dagan, and none which states his function it is up to us to speculate.

The first fish-man of the paintings could be any divinity associated with water including a possible fish-dagon. The latter of the two is from Nineveh, and by all accounts not the philistine Dagon.

[lch]

Endoperez said:
Bah! This isn't the first Dev Diary. I still have copies of the ones that told us the first things about a whole era of Niefelheim-type nations and huge mage-thugs. I still remember reading about the old age mechanics, and being in awe.


... now quit jumping around and feed me my soup, for chrissakes!

[VedalkenBear]

Just as a consideration, KO...

Have you considered doing a Carthaginian nation?

[Kristoffer O]

Thought about it, but not in any meaningful manner.

[llamabeast]

Yo Kristoffer,

Re your progress page, mars->march, assuming it's meant to be English.

[Dedas]

Mars is march in Swedish.

[llamabeast]

Okay, I thought it might be that. Are feb, jan, dec etc all the same in both languages then?

[WraithLord]

Boy, your hebrew is getting better and better. Are you sure you're not one of those specially trained spies speaking half a dozen or so languages? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Endoperez]

WraithLord said:
Boy, your hebrew is getting better and better. Are you sure you're not one of those specially trained spies speaking half a dozen or so languages? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Of course not! He trains the specially trained spies! (not in the languages, though)

[lch]

Hmmmmmm, I was just about to reply "awesome!" to a preview screeny from KO, but it already vanished... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

It's a conspiracy!

[Kristoffer O]

I made some screenies. Here is the newly finished Hinnom.
To the left the Horim (cave dwellers). In the middle the Avvim (lesser giants). And finally the Rephaim.

http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/hinnom.jpg

[Kristoffer O]

Sorry Ich, I just disliked that the screen appeared as an attachment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

My biggest problem now will be balancing stuff. Giants are more problematic to evaluate than humans. Sacred giants even more so.

[HoneyBadger]

These look great! Especially that fellow with the horn, Really stand-outish.

I wonder if we'll see a "Crazy Boat-maker" hero with animal-awe for the late age of this nation?

[lch]

Kristoffer O said:
Sorry Ich, I just disliked that the screen appeared as an attachment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


You can post the attachment, and then edit your post to link to the actual uploaded jpeg graphic, too. That's what most of the people here are doing.

[Kristoffer O]

Aha!

[Chris_Byler]

HoneyBadger said:
These look great! Especially that fellow with the horn, Really stand-outish.

I wonder if we'll see a "Crazy Boat-maker" hero with animal-awe for the late age of this nation?


With navigation, naturally. He should have a special effect that casts Rain wherever he goes - at least for forty days and forty nights. (Which, come to think of it, is less than two turns...) It shouldn't be too hard to do since IIRC there are already beings who cast Darkness just by showing up.

And, of course, every turn he should freespawn two of some type of animal. Handy when it's elephants, a little less so when it's swine, but appropriate either way.

I don't know if the nation is supposed to represent the Hebrews *and* the Philistines or only the latter.


P.S. Any plans for the Grigori, perhaps as a national summon? Samyaza as a national hero, or perhaps a national pretender? They could play a role similar to the departed celestials of Kailasa - beings whose glory days predated even the EA, but might just come back if you know how to call them...

[PashaDawg]

Looks cool! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Renojustin]

This nation looks incredibly groovy. Awesome job on the icons and unit concepts in general.

[Shovah32]

Looks great KO, really. Any idea for release date?

[Kristoffer O]

> P.S. Any plans for the Grigori, perhaps as a national summon? Samyaza as a national hero, or perhaps a national pretender? They could play a role similar to the departed celestials of Kailasa - beings whose glory days predated even the EA, but might just come back if you know how to call them...

They will be included as summons. I intend to make them uniques, since there are references regarding what science they taught. Semyaza was the teacher of enchantments and herblore IIRC. THere is some overlapping in what they taught, so I think I'll make less than eleven of them.

> Any idea for release date?

No idea. I think it need more beta than normally, since the 3.15 seems stable and there might be balancing issues with the new nations. Also there is not much other stuff done atm. The soul shattering mechanic must be fixed, and there will probably be new issues I want JK to take a look at. And I have all the summons to do.

[Kristoffer O]

OK, now I'll test the Ich suggestion. This is a LA Gibbor, a surviving Rephaim of earier ages. Stats might be redone, but you get the picture.


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/590121-gibbor.jpg

[Kristoffer O]

Hah! It worked.

[Zeldor]

Can you command respect? Some kind of new summon? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And I think there should be also coma before 'enchanted' in last sentence. And I do not see bronze cap on his head either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S. There is still mistype when you wish for armageddon, you get 'the biggest earthquake every seen'.

[Edi]

"Command respect" is perfectly normal English, it is a widely used expression. There is no need for the comma either, Zeldor.

The wish events and other spell events were never typo-fixed because they are in different files than the descriptions.

[OmikronWarrior]

Are you English as a second language Zeldor? Not saying that to be insulting, but to "command respect" is used so often in America it's a cliche. I'm also pretty sure adding a comma before enchanted would be a splice (so don't do it).

[Zeldor]

Hehe, yeah. In most parts of the world they teach Oxford English, which is a bit different http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gregstrom]

British English doesn't need the comma either, and is quite happy with commanding respect for that matter.

[Meglobob]

Excellent work Kristoffer, I really like the guy with the curved horn, I hope his stats make him worth recruiting!

This thread does remind me of Endoperez's thread before Dom3, of course I was a complete newbie then, so easily fooled/impressed.

Don't forget the map that will never be (but will really, eventually, hopefully...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kuritza]

Cant wait to see them all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I cant help feeling these giants will be rather unique in MA and LA. So far, all the inately magical races have dwindled in numbers during the Middle age, and LA is basically dominated by humans. I guess angelic blood was stronger than Van and Jotun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Rather interesting twist, though - sacred lands never conquered by Rome/Ermor, all these giants perserving their semi-antique culture well into the Middle Ages.

[WraithLord]

Agree, I think keeping the giants, angelic blood in those nations well into MA and LA adds an interesting development in dom history for not only are humans ever more dominant in late ages they have almost all turned to death magic. Those nations, if based on fire, nature and astral as I suspect they should would differ in that respect as well.

They would sort of be the worlds last hope against evil and man nations such as Ermor and R'lyeh.

I'd also like to comment that the screenies are awesome and that at this point I practically can't wait to see the new patch, though OtoH I'm willing to wait as much as required for the beta testing.

OT, Meglobob, are you back?- Will you be playing MP anytime soon?- You know Fearsome Legions exploded /threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif after you left (not by your absence though). Shame, for it just reached a boiling point /threads/images/Graemlins/Campfire.gif

[Kuritza]

I may be wrong, but... if I'm not, they hardly qualify as last hope or something. If anything, the Philistines were downright evil.
...Not to mention that Old Testaments God is not a benevolent one... at all.

And the Late Age, while touched by corruption and approaching the Rlyeh/Ermor (/Mictlan) apocalypse, is not as hopeless as it seems. Arco is as spiritual as ever, Tien Chi doesnt view death magic as something magic of rot and decay, to them its means of ancestral worship, Jomon is a proud human culture (cruel as hell, but still noble in their own way). Bogarus is full of contradictions (as it should be!), there's place for both freakish blood rituals and pure religions worship, noble Bogatyr etc. In Agartha, the dead walk peacefully amongs the living. Even Dark Forest Ulm, while downright hopeless, is inspired by some of the darker pages of human history, and may be redeemed later just as the real world survived the Dark Ages, Thirty Years War, witchhunts all over Europe etc, etc.

[johan osterman]

The new nations are not exactly going to be a beacon of hope. They are cannibalistic amongst other things.

[Meglobob]

WraithLord said:OT, Meglobob, are you back?- Will you be playing MP anytime soon?- You know Fearsome Legions exploded /threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif after you left (not by your absence though). Shame, for it just reached a boiling point /threads/images/Graemlins/Campfire.gif



Shame about fearsome legions, worst thing is Zak seems to have given up hosting.

Sadly, I am not playing any MP atm and can't see me doing so for several months but hopefully then I will be able to delegate some of my workload and join a new game.

Still on the plus side I see all the newbie MP games are filling up fast, so no shortage of new blood to play the outstanding game which is Dom3.

Just catching up on reading the forums posts as its a public holiday for Easter.

[Gregstrom]

Ooh, cannibals. Does that offset starvation by killing off troops?

[Kristoffer O]

It is mainly the ancient rephaim of the EA that devour their lesser kin.

[WraithLord]

Ahmm, no hope then from new nations. An LA nation that would be designed specifically to counter (thematically) LA Ermor and R'lyeh would be nice.

I agree about Arco, but my point was about the general tendency of LA nations - more human and more death magic.

About the next point I want to tread carefully since I don't want to start a religious related argument, however I must stay I strongly object to the statement "Not to mention that Old Testaments God is not a benevolent one". Not religious myself but I have studied enough to know that Judaism doesn't agree with that view. True, there were strange factions coming out of Judaism with similar views but never the main stream. I'm not familiar enough with Islam and Christianity but AFAIK they more or less share Judaism's view about God's benevolence.

[Kuritza]

Believers are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I'm entitled to mine. Basically, 'serve me properly OR ELSE!' isnt what I expect to hear from a benevolent deity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
But thats off topic, of course. And, well, its a good thing that death magic is popular during the LA, since dust to dust is a good counter to Ermor amongst other things.
For example, you can say that LA Jotunheim is designed to beat Ermor. It has nature (to feed starving armies and for eagles eyes), death (dust to dust) and astral (solar rays) against Ermor. Surprisingly effective.
And Rlyeh... I think that only a coalition can stop Rlyeh. Not kill it, but stalemate till its too late. You cant even hit Rlyeh underwater: thugs/SC will be paralyzed and killed, armies will be hit by Dreams of Rlyeh and drown as commander with breathgiving artifact is assassinated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[WraithLord]

Yes, lets keep beliefs out of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Your point about LA Jotun is true from practical standpoint not from thematical one. Jotun culture and background has nothing pious or anti ermor about it. I would expect an anti-ermor nation to be along the lines of MA Marignon or Pythium, only in LA so some adaption is required.

As for LA R'lyeh, what's wrong with high MR thugs/SCs with starshine cup and amulet of antimagic? - they will be pretty hard to paralyze/kill. As for dreams, doesn't high MR and bodyguards help?

[Sombre]

Sounds a bit like Ulm Reborn. They have specifically anti undead/demon units, high level priests and their own freespawn. Can't get much more anti ermor than that.

[Kuritza]

With MR thugs wrong thing is, MR wont help. In one of our current games, Jotunheim lost a God with MR 30+, because with many recruitable and, occasionally, freespawn paralyzers you are bound to lose at least one roll.
Dreams - well, you will probably have -1 to -2 MR thanks to dominion (I dont believe in Rlyeh without magic scale), and caster is guaranteed to have at least +3 to penetration. With halved stats and MR, your commander cant do much against the following soul slay / enslave soul (with the same +3 to penetration)

Regarding anti-Ermor, I am fighting Rlyeh right now as Bogarus, and it feels great. I lack nature (or, rather, I've got nature just recently), so my troops starve, but otherwise its just what you are looking for. The whole 'Bogarus' name means 'God's Rus' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif, quite a religious country. Tainted with a blood cult, but still pious. Not peoples fault their new God has seen the worth in Blood and sent some FFA to look for virgins in several conquered provinces... Field army, simple peasants and city dwellers drafted into militia to fight for their homeland, heavy cavalry with weapons of honest sharp steel, and holy birds with voices of saints - what more can you ask for? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Since I pretty much backstabbed Ermor who was busy killing Utgard, I'm about to finish him off soon, so this story even has a happy end. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

New developmnet. I've read more on Ugaritic religion found great inspiration for MA Ashdod. Especially concerning the banquet for the deified dead.

While LA Gath and EA Hinnom have blood magic, MA Ashdod will have death instead. The repahim are strongly connected with the dead in the Ugaritic texts, even more so than in biblical and talmudic traditions.

Cultural inspiration:
Hinnom - antediluvian (biblical myth), a mesopotamian touch, a bit of canaanites.
Ashdod - canaanite and philistine, mosaic time
Gath - philistine and israelite of the time of the temple

[Agrajag]

My dreams of a biblical Israeli nation have been shattered http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Lol

[Dedas]

Great work Kristoffer, keep it up! I will call of the assassins (for now). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Gath niceified. Yeddeoni take a step back for the Abba.

[Cheezeninja]

a little off topic, but did you get your inspiration for Hidden in Snow from The Malazan Book of the Fallen series? They are almost perfect fits for one of the major factions.

VVVV- Indeed it would!

[Kristoffer O]

I did http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

There was some talk about a Malazan mod in a thread somewhere, including how to use the unfrozen, how to make the empire and about ascendants as pretenders. It was quite a while ago, so I believe the project died. But it would be quite fun to play.

[Kristoffer O]

Been trying out LA Gath a bit. Added a horn blower.

Currently unsure if the Gittites (smaller giants) should be home only. That would make them rare, since most would probably recruit the sacred Gibborim instead.
Since the giants are supposed to live only in Gath it annoys me a bit. If you don't go for a bless strategy it is possible that you recruit Gittites instead of Gibborim, but I find it a bit unlikely. If the Gittites are made everywhere they might dominate the human tribes and you won't se any of these instead.

Anyway, here is a screen.


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/590768-gath.jpg

Each human tribe has slightly different attributes and abilities.

[quantum_mechani]

Kristoffer O said:
Been trying out LA Gath a bit. Added a horn blower.

Currently unsure if the Gittites (smaller giants) should be home only. That would make them rare, since most would probably recruit the sacred Gibborim instead.
Since the giants are supposed to live only in Gath it annoys me a bit. If you don't go for a bless strategy it is possible that you recruit Gittites instead of Gibborim, but I find it a bit unlikely. If the Gittites are made everywhere they might dominate the human tribes and you won't se any of these instead.

Anyway, here is a screen.


<font color="#5bebe5">Removed quoted image because it screws up page formatting ~Edi</font>

Each human tribe has slightly different attributes and abilities.

I'm not sure if you are talking about troops or mages, but I'm quite sure the archers are going to get used regardless of what giants are available. They might replace the HI though (I doubt the LI would get a lot of use regardless). As for the human mages, even just very slightly different magic should give them a niche.

[Kristoffer O]

The troops, but I think the problem is less than I first thought. I think things are turning out as I like.

[Gregstrom]

I had a silly idea. If forts can act like sites, then the fort types for Gath in could allow Gittite recruitables in some terrain types and not others. Something like a 'Gittite Fortress' in mountain terrain that gives recruitable Gittites but costs more than a plains fort.

[chrispedersen]

Why not a shofar blower (or something similar) with a siege bonus?

[Kristoffer O]

They have a siege bonus in the early era, when they are giants and more magical. Since the rams-horn is small, I went for an anachronistic and culturally misplaced, but nice looking, brass horn instead.

[VedalkenBear]

Something else I was curious about, KO. While each nation's progression seems correct in time, there is absolutely no matching between nations and where they occurred in history. Gath is the time of the temple, so... before the Exile? If so, that's certainly in the pre-Christian era. This matches, if anything, to other nations' Early Era. The worst 'offender' in my opinion is Marignon vs. Ermor. MA Marignon is primed to take out LA Ermor, which they can't do short of modding.

What is your position on this?

[Kristoffer O]

Pretty much what Edi has said in some threads. WIth the change from dom2 themes into dom3 eras some inconsistencies have emerged.

I would like to make some changes, but it would probably affect both ongoing games as well as general setup, balance and the manual.

So currently nations are consistent only regarding to themselves. At times I dream of making more eras, but that would probably cause a lot more problems than it would solve.

LA ermor should be in the MA and both MA ULM and Marignon should be results of Ermors fall. Edis suggestion with the MA Ermor made LA might work with some changes. This is an idea I'm quite fond, but I'm not sure if a fix would be good. A problem might be the troops predating the ashen empire that is not in the EA Ermor (censors etc). If there was more eras I could have the current MA Ermor with its censors before ashen and keep ashen at the time of Marignon.

As you see I'm not entirely satisfied with the overall historical consistency http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

All three (Hinnom, Ashdod, Gath) are predating Christianity, and should be in Mythical and early eras if placed in real world history.

I'm starting to think that a reason for inconsistencies and stuff as well as SP gripes, is the lack of scenarios. If there was a premade map with a background story, a fully developed ermor and a couple of fringe states available for the new player, or another map where ermor just had fallen with Marignon and Ulm fighting to stall the dead, SP could be more fun and probably more challenging.

I wonder why there are so few scenarios out there. Probably because we didn't include any of our own in dom3.

[Zeldor]

Kristoffer O:

So another thing just moved to Dominions 4 to-do list? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And there are no scenarios cause AI sucks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And people do not feel like making beautiful map with a lot of settings to see stupid AI ruin it. And map editor is not extremely user-friendly either.

P.S. When it comes to thematic things - why can you cast MAelstrom on land? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Good question.

[LDiCesare]

Kristoffer O said:
I'm starting to think that a reason for inconsistencies and stuff as well as SP gripes, is the lack of scenarios. If there was a premade map with a background story, a fully developed ermor and a couple of fringe states available for the new player, or another map where ermor just had fallen with Marignon and Ulm fighting to stall the dead, SP could be more fun and probably more challenging.

I wonder why there are so few scenarios out there. Probably because we didn't include any of our own in dom3.



It would be possible to make such a scenario, if one modded a new MA nation and copy-pasted LA Ermor into it, then did a scenario using this, Ulm and Marignon. This would really be interesting only for SP I believe, as playing MA Ulm against Ermor Ashen empire sounds like suicide to me.

"Let's slaughter the mass of walking dead with out fast firing arbalests!"

[capnq]

Kristoffer O said: I wonder why there are so few scenarios out there.

In all of my experience with 4X games, I've never found a scenario that was as interesting to play as the standard buildup from a single starting position.

[Foodstamp]

LDiCesare said:

Kristoffer O said:
I'm starting to think that a reason for inconsistencies and stuff as well as SP gripes, is the lack of scenarios. If there was a premade map with a background story, a fully developed ermor and a couple of fringe states available for the new player, or another map where ermor just had fallen with Marignon and Ulm fighting to stall the dead, SP could be more fun and probably more challenging.

I wonder why there are so few scenarios out there. Probably because we didn't include any of our own in dom3.



It would be possible to make such a scenario, if one modded a new MA nation and copy-pasted LA Ermor into it, then did a scenario using this, Ulm and Marignon. This would really be interesting only for SP I believe, as playing MA Ulm against Ermor Ashen empire sounds like suicide to me.

"Let's slaughter the mass of walking dead with out fast firing arbalests!"



That's not really how it works, but the truth is even easier. The mod would only need these commands:

#modname "LA Ermor in MA"
#domversion 3.15
#description "This mod adds LA ermor to the middle era."
#icon "modbannerlinkhere.tga"
#version 1.0
#selectnation 50
#era 2
#end
#selectnation 28
#era 0
#end

[Kristoffer O]

Ophan and Tetramorph done.

[WraithLord]

Wow!

Any chance for a screenshot? - *pls*

[Valandil]

The please is seconded. Curious about what you did with the Ophanim.

[Aezeal]

I made something with a bit more story behind it once and it didn't find much takers.. since then I quit modding

my gang-wars map was really nice IMHO, it wasn't finished yet but the idea rocked..

Anyone interested is welcome to play it.

[Valandil]

Hmm. Dominions players are reasonably likely to enjoy the game because it is historically and culturally interesting, and because of the premise about the quest for godhood. In that light, gang-wars are likely to be less popular. Not knocing the idea, but not really surprised it wasn't that downloaded

[Wrana]

While I like late Pythium enough, what I hate is that they are supposed to take this shape after fighting off Ermorian attacks - and at the same time they became WORSE against undead! LA Marignon has no such nonsensuality - its summoned devils are pretty useful against undead...
OT question: why Eriu doesn't have chariots?? Balance issues?

[Kristoffer O]

&gt; OT question: why Eriu doesn't have chariots?? Balance issues?

Probably an omission. Cu Chulainn has one though.

[Kristoffer O]

Ophanim! http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/595438-ophanim.jpg

[Amhazair]

Gods, Kritoffer! You sure know how to make a guy drool. And it even doesn't include any beautiful chicks...

[Taqwus]

And the wheels from the sky keep on burnin'...

Not familiar at all with the lore, so searching turned up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophanim

Interesting.

[WraithLord]

Kewl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So dominions lore now includes the following from catholic angelic hierarchy (De Coelesti Hierarchia ), the Seraphim, Cherubim, Ophanim (aka Thrones), Virtue, Archangels and angels
Missine Dominations, Powers and Principalities.

Since I really like angelic related myths I'm quite content http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Zeldor]

We need Nephesch Ha-Messiah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

I intend to use the jewish angelology and the hiearchy of maimonides. I do like the sound of Ophanim better than gagallin though. Also the Zohar and book of Enoch is inconsistent enough to give me some freedom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Renojustin]

You truly are a geek among geeks, sir. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Pleased to hear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sombre]

Great stuff KO. Always cool to have some unorthdox stuff like that.

[Foodstamp]

I love that graphic. I love this game. Nice work!

[Sawyer]

How does a general convince his soldiers to attack balls of burning wings and wheels, I wonder?
I mean it's not like trolls or dragons where there's a discernible anatomy and the majority of their makeup isn't FIRE.

[Renojustin]

Probably the majority of the troops are just not very imaginative; dey go out and dey do der jobs, ay?

"Boss sez break dat thing, use yer arrers and yer sords and what not boyz!"

[Taqwus]

Should be useful for surprise attacks. I mean, even if a scout sees them flying overhead, who's going to believe reports of flaming, flying, many-eyed wheels?

[Renojustin]

For some reason, I don't know, just a weird feeling, I don't think they'll be Stealth +25.

[Sawyer]

Nonsense! It could fly really high and shadow the sun! After a certain altitude it would be completely indistinguishable.

[llamabeast]

How do you shadow the sun? Where you need to be depends on who's looking, so so long as there are a couple of widely spaced people on the ground it's impossible.

[Renojustin]

To be fair, that can depend on just how high you are.

[llamabeast]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think the sun can be considered beyond "very high". If said angel was fast enough to get near the sun so it could move around without getting spotted (90 million miles or so), he would hardly have any need of hiding!

On the other hand, perhaps the sun in Dominions is much closer to the earth. Being as it's probably some god's flaming chariot, or a glowing creature or something, it may not be very high at all.

[Renojustin]

Five or eight miles up and your prey on the ground isn't going to be noticing much of a parallax effect... you could definitely swoop down on one group without the others warning them or reaching them in time to help.

Ok, this has officially Gone Too Far.

[sector24]

Ur wingz R gunna melt LOLZ

(Now it's gone too far)

[Renojustin]

I was soaring ever higher, but I flew too high.

[Dedas]

Is there an Icarus hero for Arcoscephale? I don't remember.

[Kristoffer O]

More like a unit and a commander. EA

[VedalkenBear]

Those Ophanim are jaw-droppingly good, KO. I'm very much looking forward to these guys.

[Kristoffer O]

Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm quite pleased myself.

[ryo_akashi]

Will Marignon and Pythium have access to the new angels or Gath access to the old angels?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Kristoffer O]

At first I intended for them to share angels, but I have decided to keep them apart to keep them diversified.

The old nations have more human-like angels, and the new ones otherworldly.

[Sombre]

Space angels!

[VedalkenBear]

KO: I find that a rather interesting decision. IIRC, the Ophanim appear in the Bible in the Book of Ezekiel, no? Possibly also Daniel, and in the apocryphal books of Enoch. I could see why the 'western' nations (such as Marignon) wouldn't necessarily get them, but IIRC the Orthodox faiths (represented in the game as Pythium) delve quite a bit deeper into the more mystical origins of the angel.

Also, while on this topic, why does EA Ermor not get access to at least the Marignon/Pythium angels? I don't see a reason why this should be an issue, considering both the mechanical and flavor background of the nation.

[Kristoffer O]

Pythium is quite strong as it is, so I'll keep the Ophanim et al for the later isreaelites. EA Hinnom will not get them since they are sprung directly from the sin of the Grigori. They will have to do with other summons.

Good point on EA Ermor. But it would require a new identical spell, since each spell can only be assigned to 3 nations atm. Angels are MA, LA Mar and MA Pyth IIRC. Not impossible to do of course.

[VedalkenBear]

Well, as a suggestion, you could remove the angelic spells from LA Marignon (after all, they don't rely on angelic support anymore; quite the opposite, in fact), and add them to EA Ermor. Obviously, Reascendance would still be used for LA Marignon.

This would also open up the possibility for MA Ermor 'Fallen Angel' Summons (I guess something like Morrigans?), and quite possibly Ashen Empire skeletal angels (physically resembling the Prince of Death, perhaps?).

Getting back to the Ophanim, I guess it's mainly a question of what it takes to summon them, and what they do. They appear to be thugs of some sort, and (at a guess) they're summoned with Fire and Air. Given that Pythium doesn't get Fire magic easily, access might not be the balance concern it could otherwise be.

You know best, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Kristoffer O]

They are summoned either as a scout/priest at lvl 8 astral/fire or as 4 noncommanders as part of a merkavah chariot together with a chayot/tetramorph at lvl 9 corresponding to the heavenly choir of Pythium.

[BesucherXia]

Kristoffer O said:

Good point on EA Ermor. But it would require a new identical spell, since each spell can only be assigned to 3 nations atm. Angels are MA, LA Mar and MA Pyth IIRC. Not impossible to do of course.



Sorry if this was my misunderstanding, but some national spells do have been used by more nations, i.e: Monster Boar has been at least assigned to EA/MA/LA Arcoscephale, EA/MA/LA Pangaea and Marverni. Pack of Wolves is even more commonly used IIRC.

[VedalkenBear]

Heh, neat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But, really, KO, when are we going to get a Fire/Air focused nation? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And these names are such a flashback to Xenosaga (with infinitely good reason).

[Endoperez]

BesucherXia said:
Sorry if this was my misunderstanding, but some national spells do have been used by more nations, i.e: Monster Boar has been at least assigned to EA/MA/LA Arcoscephale, EA/MA/LA Pangaea and Marverni. Pack of Wolves is even more commonly used IIRC.
Kristoffer O said:

Good point on EA Ermor. But it would require a new identical spell, since each spell can only be assigned to 3 nations atm. Angels are MA, LA Mar and MA Pyth IIRC. Not impossible to do of course.





So there are actually two or three spells for summoning wolves and the Monster Boar, they just all have the same name.

[Kristoffer O]

It is no problem to add such spells, but there is a problem for modders if the spell has the same name, since only the first spell of a particular name can be modded.. Not a big deal though as I said.

[Kuritza]

Kristoffer O said:
They are summoned either as a scout/priest at lvl 8


Dont tell me THAT thing is stealthy. o0
- John... John, do you see that huge flaming many-eyed chariot?
- GAAH!!! No! I dont see anything! And you'd better not, too! And I think we are actually late to... someplace else... RUN!!!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

not scout. i meant nocom commander, like golem

[lch]

Kristoffer O said:http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/595438-ophanim.jpg


*nerdgasm*

[Kristoffer O]

The three nations are practically finished. I need some heroes for Gath and Hinnom, and some lesser national summons available to all three. Se'irim, lilim and some other creatures of the wild.

I finished the Grigori today. It was a bit irritating when they had identical sprites, so I decided to make slight variations on them.

Here is a screen from spooky sprites. THis is Azazel, theacher of weaponcraft, war and cosmetics.


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/598777-azazel.jpg

[mathusalem]

awesome !

[Sombre]

[all the final fantasy fans start fawning over their new sephiroth]

I shall call him emo-angel.

[Kristoffer O]

Heh!

[AlgaeNymph]

Kristoffer O said:
I finished the Grigori today. It was a bit irritating when they had identical sprites, so I decided to make slight variations on them.

Here is a screen from spooky sprites. This is Azazel, teacher of weaponcraft, war and cosmetics.

Neato!

But...I only see six Grigori. Weren't there about a dozen?

[VedalkenBear]

That is seriously awesome art. And re: FF, no one will compare him to Sephiroth due to the fact that the Grigori has 3 too many wings. :p

[DigitalSin]

Looks mad!

[Kristoffer O]

I decided to make only six. In the references the leaders range from 10 to 11 to 20 and the total of watchers range from 100 to 200 IIRC.

They are a bit overlapping. Kokabel teaches the constellations and Barakiel the stars. I decided it was enough with one guy teaching astral magic. WIth six uniques there will not be too many of them running around in the game. Also their Nephilim progeny can have skills and references to their respective father.

[Kristoffer O]

What is Sephiroth (apart from the ten emanations of god in Kabbalah)? Some kind of final fantasy monster?

I have thought about doing a Sephirah pretender.

[AlgaeNymph]

Kristoffer O said:
I decided to make only six...They are a bit overlapping.

Let's see if I can guess what you've come up with.

*checks Wikipedia entry on Grigori*

Lesse, we've got Azazel (death, maybe earth and blood), Kokabiel/Baraqel (astral, maybe death), Araqiel (earth, maybe astral and nature), Chazaqiel (air, maybe water), Shamsiel (fire, maybe astral), and Samyaza (because even though Armaros/Penemue has a more distinctive niche, Samyaza is too big of a name to pass up).
What is Sephiroth? Some kind of Final Fantasy monster?

That's one way to understate (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sephiroth) it.
I have thought about doing a Sephirah pretender.

Do it...do it...

[Sombre]

Sephiroth is a boring 2 dimensional 'cool' emo villain in the game Final Fantasy 7 who is reckoned to be the 'best villain ever' by the same kind of people who were blown away by the philosophical 'depth' of the Matrix films.

In short, he's a neo-nerd idiot icon ;]

[AlgaeNymph]

Sombre said:
Sephiroth is...boring.

He got lucky to be around right when the Web reached critical mass. Not wearing as much makeup as Kefka might have helped also.

[Cor2]

Sombre said:
Sephiroth is a boring 2 dimensional 'cool' emo villain in the game Final Fantasy 7 who is reckoned to be the 'best villain ever' by the same kind of people who were blown away by the philosophical 'depth' of the Matrix films.

In short, he's a neo-nerd idiot icon ;]



Agreed, except I liked the Matrix films. They were fun.

[Reverend Zombie]

Cor2 said:

Sombre said:
Sephiroth is a boring 2 dimensional 'cool' emo villain in the game Final Fantasy 7 who is reckoned to be the 'best villain ever' by the same kind of people who were blown away by the philosophical 'depth' of the Matrix films.

In short, he's a neo-nerd idiot icon ;]



Agreed, except I liked the Matrix films. They were fun.



Only the first one was any good. It set up really high expectations, and the later films just failed to deliver.

[Edi]

Looks great!

So, if and when you feel like sending them my way, I would gladly proofread the descriptions, Kristoffer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

I've thought about that and I'm almost finished. Made a couple of new ones today, but you might expect them soon. I think there are about 80 or 90 or so for you to read. I've changed many of them since last time.

[Cerlin]

I cannot wait to play these nations! They seem so cool. and I have especially enjoyed the nations that have been added lately...especially Formoria and Tir na n'Og...Go Celtic myths!

[Edi]

Kristoffer O said:
I've thought about that and I'm almost finished. Made a couple of new ones today, but you might expect them soon. I think there are about 80 or 90 or so for you to read. I've changed many of them since last time.


Are you talking only about Hinnom/Ashdod/Gath or also the Ulmish, Ermor and Abysian units? From the last email conversation on that, I was left with the understanding that the HAG units were very much still subject to change, so I would reread all of those in any case. Looking forward to it anyhow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[VedalkenBear]

In counterpoint to Sombre's, Sephiroth is the main villain of FF7. A very typical bisyoonen lead, he is mainly liked for his looks and his general amorality.

He generally has great appeal to those who play console RPGs. He has one black wing, and he either popularized or was popularized by the final boss music in FF7, 'One Winged Angel'.

An understanding of Japanese culture can find deeper reasons for his popularity, at least among Japanese.

[Saulot]

Never heard of spooky sprites. What is the program you use to draw the sprites, KO?

[Endoperez]

Saulot said:
Never heard of spooky sprites. What is the program you use to draw the sprites, KO?



In-house program developed by JK, originally for Atari ST or something. From Google groups archives, comp.sys.atari.announce:


Johan Karlsson Aug 12 1995, 10:00 am

Spooky Sprites is a true colour sprite creator for atari falcon. It's freeware and has been uploaded to ftp.cnam.fr.

Some of the changes from the the last version are:

The largest change is that you can use the sprite editor in double pixel mode (768*240) if you use a rgb monitor or tv. The video mode is changed in the preferences menu. Switching between ntsc and pal on rgb now works as it's supposed to do (you cannot do this on vga monitors). Doubling and halving of sprite width is now implemented. This allows you to convert medium resolution sprites to low res and vice versa. New paste mode Merge. Pictures can now be saved in a run length encoded format. Faster sprite loading. Flood fill added. Can be installed as TRS application and load sprite files automatically. You may now create a picture containing all sprites. Some multitasking during the most time consuming operations. Lots of minor bugs removed.

Hope you like it!

Johan

[Saulot]

Huh. Interesting.

Followup questions:
Do you recommend it?
Is it available to the public?
Would it work on XP?

[Kristoffer O]

I do not recommend it, since there is no documentation whatsoever. But it is a quite good sprite program. At least when you are used to it. Gabriella got an intro and used it when she made the Bogarus sprites, and she said she liked it. So it might not be that bad.

It is not available.

It works on linux. Once there was a windows version, but it was never used IIRC.

[Saulot]

Had the answers been yes, yes, and yes I would have given it a try.

Ah well, I'll use gimp to scrape by.

Thanks for the reply.

[Kristoffer O]

Ha! I'm fininshed!

All in all there seems to be exactly 100 new unit entries. A few are different shapes of the same monsters, but still, 100 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Soon beta testing will begin. I imagine there will be some balancing to do. The earlier Rephaim might pose some problems, since there are few units to compare them with. Fomorians and Niefel Giants come closest I suspect.

[Chris_Byler]

Is there a new member of the 500 Club to compete with Niefel Jarls, Fomorian Kings and Dai Oni?

[Kristoffer O]

Yep there is. Two actually. One is more of a warrior, one more of a mage. And then there are two 400 guys in MA.

The 500 guys come with a price though. They eat a lot. Including population and their lesser kin http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

Kristoffer:

So about how much time do we have to use our tartarians before they become hmm... less useful? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Ah, I had almost forgotten about that one. Not sure. Depends on how much time the beta will need. A week or three. There is quite a lot to go through. Plus a week for us to apply fixes perhaps. So anything from 2-4 weeks I guess.

[Zeldor]

Will that new tartarian thing apply only to newly summoned ones or to all? If to all it would be pretty destrutive to those that rely on kitted SCs in their wars.

[Kristoffer O]

All I guess. But it will not be as if they are out of business. Just a chance that they do silly stuff at times, such as attend funeral or demolish temple.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Suddenly an arrow came flying out of the sky and pierced Important Mage through the heart! Speaking for him at the funeral was Biggun, the giant undead cyclops that was called from the depths of Tartarus just last month. "It was almost like I knew him!" Biggun wailed behind a teary eye as it proceeded to bite off the head from Important Mage's remains.

[WraithLord]

All this new content looks great, it really does.
Also, 2-4 weeks suits me quite well thank you very much, since I'll be on a one month PTO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Seriously, I think this is boiling out to be the best patch ever! *hurrying to knock on wood*

[Professor_Dyar]

Okay, so, my question: by adding 100+ units to the game, you are rapidly running out of buffer space for new unit descriptions. When are you going to raise that limit? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Edi]

The description limits were raised in 3.14, which was swiftly followed by 3.15 as an intermediate patch to fix the new scale bug that manifested after the first one was slain.

[Endoperez]

Edi said:
The description limits were raised in 3.14, which was swiftly followed by 3.15 as an intermediate patch to fix the new scale bug that manifested after the first one was slain.



There is only space for about 150 new spells, though... Depending on how many new spells the three new nations have, the spell limits might have to be raised somewhere near 3.33.

[Professor_Dyar]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[hunt11]

when you said that the summoned titans from Tartarus would do random stuff now and then are you saying that they would have insanity or will it be something different

[Edi]

Different from standard insanity and called Shattered Soul.

[MaxWilson]

Kuritza said:
Believers are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I'm entitled to mine. Basically, 'serve me properly OR ELSE!' isnt what I expect to hear from a benevolent deity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Well, in the Old Testament I'm familiar with it's never "Sacrifice more oxen to me!" but sometimes it's "Stop sacrificing oxen to me until you stop exploiting widows and let your slaves go, OR ELSE!" Although there's a bit of "Quit worshipping idols, they're lumps of wood and they can't hear you!" mixed in.

Pretty benevolent as Dom3 pretenders go. Order-3 at least. <font color="red">Edit: And a special power: any mage in your dominion who performs blood magic suffers a Mind Hunt attack.</font>

-Max

[MaxWilson]

Kristoffer O said:
So currently nations are consistent only regarding to themselves. At times I dream of making more eras, but that would probably cause a lot more problems than it would solve.

LA ermor should be in the MA and both MA ULM and Marignon should be results of Ermors fall. Edis suggestion with the MA Ermor made LA might work with some changes. This is an idea I'm quite fond, but I'm not sure if a fix would be good. A problem might be the troops predating the ashen empire that is not in the EA Ermor (censors etc). If there was more eras I could have the current MA Ermor with its censors before ashen and keep ashen at the time of Marignon.

*snip*




It might be interesting to mod different quasi-eras based on this description. An alternate EA (pre-600 B.C./B.C.E.) might allow:

EA C'tis
Either Ashdod or Gath (mutually exclusive)
Marverni
Fomoria
Tir Na N'og or Eriu (mutually exclusive)
Kailasa or Bandar Log
...

Alternate MA (600 B.C./B.C.E. to 500 A.D./C.E.) would then include:

EA or MA Ermor (mutually exclusive)
MA C'tis
Marverni
Fomoria
Eriu
EA Agartha
...

LA (500 to 1200 A.D./C.E.) could be:
LA Ermor
MA Marignon
MA Ulm
MA Agartha
LA C'tis
...

VLA (Very Late Age) could have all the Renaissance/techish nations like LA Marignon and LA Ulm, LA Agartha, Jomon, etc.

It would make an interesting set of mods actually. All it really is, is the Single-Age mod with some constraints on which nations you're actually allowed to pick.

-Max