How do trample mechanics work?

[Psycho]

According to the manual it's a defense check against 10 (disregarding the fatigue). But how then is it possible that my eponi knights with 19 defense (2 exp.) and body ethereal on some of them got utterly squished by acro chariots, when their chance of successful trample would've been 5% without even taking etherealness into account?

Also it seems to me that the chariots got more than one trample attempt per turn. Is it that the trample doesn't count as an attack and doesn't use up all the action points?

[thejeff]

Trample definitely doesn't use up all the action points. I'm not sure of the actual mechanics, but it looks like a trample only counts as a normal move. The move happens, and displaces the targets whether or not the actual attack succeeds. Then they can try to trample again.

I've often seen high def units get moved all around the field before finally being squished, so I'd assume they just get enough chances to get the 5% hit.

[johan osterman]

IIRC they take 1 damage when they get moved, even if they avoid the primary damage. If enough elephants trample repeatedly the damage stack up. Not sure if the ethreal helps or not

[Dedas]

Trample is crazy. Do something about it Johan! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kamamura]

It is best used for sieges, when heavy troops tend to block the gateway. I had a group of troglodytes, and they run through the defenders like knife throug butter.

[Omnirizon]

trample is a bit crazy. It would be nice even if the damage was dependent on the size difference between the trampler and the tramplee (yes, I made up a new word). I was thinking there was in fact this mechanic, but I can't seem to find it in the manual.

An elephant shouldn't be able to trample a size 5 drake. I mean it can't really lift its legs that high!

[Tuidjy]

Trample is most definitely screwed up. It seems OK when it is Elephants against
infantry, much less so when it is an ice elemental against an Jarl, and way off
when it's Troglodites against skirmisher cavalry.

For starters, a successful evade should result in minor fatigue, not real
damage. Second, the chance of evasion should depend on the AP difference
between the two units. And third, the damage should depend on the size
difference, not just on the size of the trampler.

[Kamamura]

shall we submit it as a bug?

[Psycho]

While still playing the demo, before reading the manual I actually thought that AP played the role in evading the attack rather than the defense. I agree that the AP and the size differences should matter.

My eponis did get displaced a lot taking one hit point for each time it happened. I don't think it's fair that the tramplers should get more than one attack per round.

[thejeff]

I actually like the multiple attacks based on movement. IT distinguishes them.
The automatic one pt of damage is bad though. And damage based on size difference would help too.

[Gregstrom]

By the manual, size difference does modify damage. Upwards.

I suspect that only getting one square of trample damage per round could render elephants nearly useless in combat.

[Taqwus]

I once had a Tartarian Titan set up to trample, with Stymphalian Wings, heroic quickness, and (IIRC) boots of quickness. Good at squishing. Not the best use of such a beast, but amusingly sadistic in SP.

[johan osterman]

Kamamura said:
shall we submit it as a bug?


It is not a bug since it is working as intended. You might question if it is too powerfull etc or tramplers should cost more, but it is certainly not a bug.

[vfb]

Gregstrom said:
By the manual, size difference does modify damage. Upwards.

I suspect that only getting one square of trample damage per round could render elephants nearly useless in combat.



My manual gives the damage as: 8 + 2*Size

It says nothing at all about size difference (other than the tramplee needs to be smaller than the trampler).

[Micah]

Think size difference matters in how many AP it takes to trample a square, not the damage...elephants seem to push a lot further than chariots when they trample from what I've seen. The other piece here is that I'd bet the trampling is applying the -2 defense for multiple attacks, which is why massed tramplers kill stuff so much faster than a lone unit...the unit's defense gets hammered down a lot more quickly when there are a lot of tramplers. This also explains why high defense units will lose to trample when it seems like they should be nearly immune to it.

[johan osterman]

Micah, correct, size difference determines AP cost.

[Zeldor]

Taqwus:

I had Golem with Stymphalan Wings in MP and he got over 1100 kills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif He had also 2 shields, cast personal luck and body ethereal so he could kill almost everything. Charcoal shield killed things he couldn't trample.