Routing Mechanics

[fungalreason]

From the manual it says that an army that automatically rout when there are 75% casualties. I've had a few battles where the enemy was down to one commander left (a huge 400 hp squid to be exact).

But rather than routing it kept on fighting, poisioning all my troops before I could take it down and my side ended up routing first. Is there something I'm missing? Does routing not apply to pretenders or something?

[moderation]

Was it berserk? Berserk units will not rout.

[Endoperez]

Immortals are also supposed to be immune to routing in some cases, as long as they are in their own dominion. They've got nothing to lose...

[Darkstone]

I was under the impression Ancient Kraken pretenders aren't immortal.

[Endoperez]

I'm not sure what Elixir of Life does, but it basically makes a unit immortal until it dies. But yeah, that isn't really applicable to the matter at hand, it's just one spesific exception to the quoted rule the manual doesn't mention AFAIK.

[kasnavada]

Any other conditions that might prevent routing ? I think it would be a good thing to know especially if you plan to use any SC / thugs in an army.

I had great success with some lycanthropy amulet, but I wondered about other spells that could do the same.

[OmikronWarrior]

That immortal thing never made much sense to me. Routing has never been about the possibility of death, it was about the FEAR of death, or sometimes just fear or terror in general.

[Agema]

Immortals don't die. So I'm not sure why they'd be afraid of dying.

[Duncan_Frost]

It's still painful to be stabbed by a sword, even if it won't finish you.

[Agema]

True, but your average immortal probably has a lot of experience getting stabbed, burned, squished by a large stone or whatever, occasionally fatally. Furthermore, fear of getting stabbed may as well apply to getting into a battle in the first place, whether or not the rest of your friends have run away or not.

[kasnavada]

On a side note, if I were immortal and occasionnaly put into such danger that I might die again, I'd try to die every few months so I can be sure that I'm properly trained to handle pain.

Also, I would use "dying" to get back home faster.

[Wauthan]

kasnavada said:
On a side note, if I were immortal and occasionnaly put into such danger that I might die again, I'd try to die every few months so I can be sure that I'm properly trained to handle pain.

Also, I would use "dying" to get back home faster.



*Imagines a small pile of ex-Kasnavadas choking up the entrance of the local pub*

Immortality. Home is just a suicide away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[fungalreason]

He wasn't beserk or immortal. Just wearing ring of the fish, luck amulet, and I forget what the last item was. However the army was very small (about 10 or so, half being commanders).

Maybe stealth units in the same province count towards that 75% of the army auto-rout number? Or perhaps 75% is counted from the total health of all units in the army rather than the number of units in it?

[thejeff]

Something doesn't quite follow the 75% rule. I know I've seen SCs stay and fight when their troops are all dead. I've also seen them rout.
They do seem more likely to stay if there were only a few troops to start with.

[Baalz]

The 75% rule is based on total HP. It's quite likely that the ancient Kraken had more than 25% of the hitpoints of your side, and thus didn't rout.

[Baalz]

Endoperez said:
Immortals are also supposed to be immune to routing in some cases, as long as they are in their own dominion. They've got nothing to lose...



Yeah, I thought this was the case to, but it isn't (perhaps it's changed at some point?). Specifically I was testing out vampire counts for the Sauromatia guide and despite being in dominion they would (rarely) rout. They stayed around quite a long time, but the last few remaining did run.

[fungalreason]

Baalz said:
The 75% rule is based on total HP. It's quite likely that the ancient Kraken had more than 25% of the hitpoints of your side, and thus didn't rout.



Aha! That explains it. He was only down to about 170/400 by the end which was probably more than 25% of the total. Thanks.

[OmikronWarrior]

Agema said:
Immortals don't die. So I'm not sure why they'd be afraid of dying.



I'm not sure why elephants would run in terror from a single guy wearing a scary helmet, but they can and do. Morale checks are almost always decoupled from realistically dieing, both ways. Flagellants running into a melee with no regard to their own safety due, but due to their 15 base morale before blessing stay and fight and get slaughtered.

[Tyrant]

Anyone know how battlefield summons (skely spam, imps, phantasmals et.) fit into the morale equations?

[vfb]

Baalz said:
The 75% rule is based on total HP. It's quite likely that the ancient Kraken had more than 25% of the hitpoints of your side, and thus didn't rout.



Thank you Baalz!

That clears up a lot of confusion. In one game I used indy commanders as a shield wall, instead of my weak troops. I was sure I'd route if I sent my weak troops in. Good thing 75% of the commanders did not die!

I also had a Wrym in one game route, and then it ran into enemy troops behind it. It fought the troops to escape, but then all of the sudden started actually fighting again. It must have regen'ed above the 25% mark.

And I guess I need to be careful of disposing of severely-afflicted 310HP Monstrums.


Tyrant said:
Anyone know how battlefield summons (skely spam, imps, phantasmals et.) fit into the morale equations?



I'm almost certain they don't count. I had one battle where I lost pretty much my entire skelly spam army, and I had nothing but regular HP commanders/mages in that battle. But my army did not route.

[Rathar]

Wow Baalz that is an awesome thing to point out.

Thank you very much, that will be very handy!

[atul]

I think immortal units are still susceptible to rout due to failed morale checks from fear and wound effects. They're just immune to the forced "everyone else routs" routings.

...or was that outdated IIRC again?

[Gregstrom]

It sounds right - I think that's down to having the special morale score 30, yes?

[capnq]

Agema said: Immortals don't die. So I'm not sure why they'd be afraid of dying.

It's not the fear of death, or the pain; it's just the inconvenience. Whatever you were doing is interrupted, and you probably won't return to the same location where you died, so you have to travel to get back to finish the task.

The possibility of losing a level in every magic path is probably the biggest concern, because re-empowering is really expensive.

[Baalz]

vfb said:
And I guess I need to be careful of disposing of severely-afflicted 310HP Monstrums.




Funny thing in a game I was in, the only leader on the enemy side with undead leadership (a tartarian) also had ritual of returning. One hit, he disappeared, the 6 non GOR'ed tartarians following him routed due to no undead leadership - and the entire enemy army followed suit. Too funny.

[vfb]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[moderation]

fungalreason said:

Baalz said:
The 75% rule is based on total HP. It's quite likely that the ancient Kraken had more than 25% of the hitpoints of your side, and thus didn't rout.



Aha! That explains it. He was only down to about 170/400 by the end which was probably more than 25% of the total. Thanks.



Hmm, in that case, a regenerating SC is unlike to rout if it's HP stays high?

[OmikronWarrior]

Hmmm... not the best mechanic but does somewhat help with the SC retreating because PD died while it buffed problem. However, only some SC's have enough HP to make a difference. Something like the Gorgon (a very good SC chasis in its own right, only has 30 HP).

[kasnavada]

Wauthan said:

kasnavada said:
On a side note, if I were immortal and occasionnaly put into such danger that I might die again, I'd try to die every few months so I can be sure that I'm properly trained to handle pain.

Also, I would use "dying" to get back home faster.



*Imagines a small pile of ex-Kasnavadas choking up the entrance of the local pub*

Immortality. Home is just a suicide away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Which brings me to the point : immortal units should have a "die" command that brings them back home.

This has nothing to do with routing though.

[vfb]

I couldn't figure out why the Wraith Lord in Ghost Riders never routes, when all the horsemen die so fast. So, I just realized it's because he's immortal, in a weird kind of way.

Thanks, thread!