Tips for newbs - just add

[Aezeal]

After attacking a lizardmen province in one of my early turns with my pretenders I would like to share:
( I know it's known to most, I had even read it somewhere before )

TIP:
DO NOT ATTACK LIZARDMEN INDIES WITH VALUABLE TROOPS/COMMANDERS/PRETENDERS

reason: the damn mage will cast curse on you, getting a cursed pretender is not nice

--> plz add more general newb info, I and I suppose other have a lot to learn (preverably not the hard way)

[ologm]

Don't attack independent barbarians with your pretender in the beginning, they can hurt. Barbarians can't handle arrows.

[Ironhawk]

Heavy Cav / Knight provinces are also dangerous to attack with high value units due to thier lances.

[Ironhawk]

Always buy at least 1PD in every province. Don't buy more than 10PD unless you have a specific reason to do so.

[K]

-Always script Divine Blessing and Blessing if you have sacred troops, because the casting AI is not smart enough to do it.

-Alway double-check Stealth commanders, because they Stealth as a default and won't join battles.

-Mercenaries are a great way to site search for Paths your nation doesn't have naturally.

[chrispedersen]

Yogolgna is a great way to build underwater temples, if youre a landlubbing nation.

[mathusalem]

give to your mages exactly the number of gems they need for casting what you have scripted

give all the other gems to a scout, always in stealth moving with your army.

[Ironhawk]

Unequipped assassins only work once against a human player - so make it count. After the first attack, they will put bodyguards on all thier useful commanders.

[K]

If you have 200 gems of one type in the bank, and no plans for them, you are doing something wrong.

[K]

You can't seduce Lifeless things. However, undead who are not Lifeless like Banelords or Ghouls can be seduced (eewwwww!).

[VedalkenBear]

Don't view your mages simply as research batteries. Many nations profit from using (some) early mages as artillery.

Using Hold and Attack with infantry is almost always better than simply Attacking when you have archer support. (About the only exception is when your normal infantry have missile weapons, such as EA Ulm or any 'legionnaire'.)

[Rytek]

When you have an elite army type which is vulnerable to missle fire (something like EA Tien Chi warriors of the 5 elements) Place a decoy unit of 5 or so throw away or shield untis at the front left of the battle and have them on "Guard Commander" orders. Place a commander at the rear left of the battlefield with "holdx5" orders. Place your elite units in the middle. The computers archers will target the forward placed units on guard order and will keep moving forward to shoot the units who are moving back to guard the commander on "hold X5" This allows your elite units to slaughter the incoming infantry without taking missle fire and then proceed to the archers who will be closer to your elites. *Note* watch for enemy light infantry with Javelins as they will throw them at your elite missle vulnerable troops"

You can use this tactic to create 2nd and 3rd expansion armies very quickly with elite Blessable troops that would normally get decimated by archer fire.

[AlgaeNymph]

If someone offers a non-aggression pact (NAP), never give an unconditional "no" when a conditional "yes" will almost always work much more in your favor -- and that's vastly understating things.

[K]

Don't put an "Eye" magic item on a commander missing an eye.

[elbnar]

Don't leave your army's blood mages unscripted in battle, or they will cast "Hellfire" and get themselves horror marked. (unless of course they are expendable)

[elbnar]

K said:
Don't put an "Eye" magic item on a commander missing an eye.



Also, don't be like the AI and give your Cyclops an Eye of Aiming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[K]

Blood slaves are pooled among all blood mages standing next to each other, so unless you want blood slaves being used up unscripted, keep commanders with slaves on the other side of the screen of any blood mages you don't want casting blood spells.

[NTJedi]

Ignore the arena battle for SP games... the AI opponents will always send their large pretenders. The prize is not worth the risk.

Sit back and watch the AI pretenders kill each other.

[moderation]

If you teleport underwater commanders to land, do not forget to give them a an Amulet of Fish.

[Saulot]

I am strongly opposed to this thread.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

It's ruining any chances of amusing first posts.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Lingchih]

In an MP game, always make your initial scout your prophet... unless you have H3 recruitable Priests. An H3 recruitable priest can be made into an H4 prophet... very nice. But otherwise the scouts do just fine, and can even stealth preach when needed.

[vfb]

If you have death gem income and recruitable D2 mages, I think it's better to research Conj1 first, then summon a Black Servant and make him your prophet. He can then reanimate dead, and he'll also make a pretty decent thug for homeland defense if you get rushed.

[Karlem]

Spam temples isn't good. Do not put a temple in each province, becasue I will get for those 400g some troops and you will loose against my bigger army. Temples should be placed only to recuit priest for blesses/raise undeads or inside castle to recruit units if you aren't a dominion bases country (LA Ermor, Ryleh...).

Extra forts are for extra mages. You build extra forts to build more mages to research more. Specially if you have low cost sacred mages. You need magic 1 to have them skyrocket but even without it they rock.

[kasnavada]

In an MP game, always make your initial scout your prophet... unless you have H3 recruitable Priests. An H3 recruitable priest can be made into an H4 prophet... very nice. But otherwise the scouts do just fine, and can even stealth preach when needed.



I disagree to that. I always use my starting commander to make a prophet, because using sermon of courage and smite helps a lot in winning early fights (and limiting losses).

A scout is disposable, weak and prone to early death...

The advice I'd give would rather be "Don't forget to always have a prophet. And don't forget that making someone a prophet gives +1 holy magic if the commander has that magic or sets holy magic to three."

[Karlem]

Kasna, making your scout a profet gives you access to something most countries do not have: stealth preachers.

Just try doing your scout profet and have him travel with firt army and you solve both problems at the same time.

[kasnavada]

What is the point of having a single stealth preacher ? Stealth preaching has counters and works only with mass of priests anyway. It's not that useful in early game because you don't really have a lot of immortal units. Stealth preaching doesn't really has any other useful side that both of those...

Moving with the scout prophet creates another problem : I may be strange but I use the scout to scout.

Well, as I said, it may have a use... but it is not in my opinion good enough to make it "noob tip".

That's what I would call a noob tip : fill the map with scouts, especially in MP !

[Dedas]

There is not really a need for a stealth preacher in early game as the prophet spreads dominion automatically anyway.

It is difficult to say which unit should be the prophet because that depends on the nation your playing and what strategy you are planning.

[Sombre]

I agree with kasnavada. Making your scout a prophet isn't always a good idea. Always having a prophet is though, as is the +1 holy level tip.

"Becoming a prophet sets his holy magic level to 3, or adds +1 level if he's already at 3+. It also gives him bonus to stats when in friendly dominion, makes him sacred and keeps him automatically blessed at all times"

[Edratman2]

Don't equip armor or low level weapons on military commanders. It just replaces the equipment the commander comes with.

Learn to choose assassin targets with care. They almost always lose to knights and other mounted commanders.

This is not Civilization. You cannot always do everything you want/plan to do. You can only build one commander per castle and must choose between military, priest, research, site search or battle mages. At first, with only one castle, this is a huge issue.

Do not waste your money/resources on the lower military units.

Learn castle admin values and what type you are building. A province between two castles who admin adds up to 100% will go to zero resouces which means you cannot recruit in that province. Murphy's law will mean that a valuable indy mage is no longer recuitable.

The people that complain about the poor AI are experienced and skilled Dom3 players. Until you learn the 7 skillion complexities of the game, the AI will kick your ***.

Magic users can kill your (seemingly)invincible armies.

This is a rock/scissors/paper game. There is always something to beat everything else. As a collary, you may not have the reasearch gems or mages to play the card.

[Wauthan]

Remember the Dominions ethic. Soldiers suffering from terrible diseases or crippling disabilities are not discharged or treated. They are to be promoted to hold the glorious position of point men (aka arrow/javelin/lance fodder). Point men work best in small groups positioned in front the your main melee forces.

This serves to practical purposes:
1. Wastes "ammo" attacks, especially the dangerous Lance charges of cavalry.
2. Kills these subpar units so you don't have to pay upkeep.

Addendum: Commanders are usually an exception of this rule, and eye and heart injuries can be "treated" with Thaumernetic implants, such as Eye of Aiming. But if it's a crap commander (like a diseased scout) don't hesitate to stick a cursed or suicide item on him and toss him at some enemy (or send him to the deathmatch). With luck some foolish enemy commander (or Pretender) will pick up the cursed items.

[cleveland]

In general, it's more helpful to choose a pretender that diversifies your nation, rather than a pretender that builds on your nation's existing strengths.

So if your nation has strong Nature magic, don't waste design points giving him a lot of Nature magic.

If your nation has access to flying commanders, don't waste points on a flying chassis.

If your nation has powerful non-capital mages, don't waste points on a Magic-3 scale.

Etc.

[Endoperez]

cleveland said:
If your nation has powerful non-capital mages, don't waste points on a Magic-3 scale.



What do you mean "waste"? Faster research is faster research, even if your researchers are also good in fights. There might be better options, but that doesn't make this one weak or wasteful, just not-quite-optimal.

[thejeff]

I agree that the prophet scout isn't always the best plan. Especially in EA, where indy scouts are rare, that may be the only scout you'll have for awhile, unless you use precious castle turns building your national scouts.

Making your starting commander a prophet has the advantage of being slightly less vulnerable to stray arrows (and leaving your scout free to scout), but the disadvantage of having higher fatigue due to armor. Also you can't patrol first turn for more money. It's a trade off.

[Dedas]

Endoperez said:

cleveland said:
If your nation has powerful non-capital mages, don't waste points on a Magic-3 scale.



What do you mean "waste"? Faster research is faster research, even if your researchers are also good in fights. There might be better options, but that doesn't make this one weak or wasteful, just not-quite-optimal.



Also, people tend to forget that Magic 3 gives several other benefits than just research points. For example:

* 30% less fatigue when casting spells in combat.

* -1 MR (actually good if your troops/mages have high MR and the enemy has low).

* Some spells effectiveness rely on magic scale.

Pushing that magic scale into enemy lands (with dominion) could benefit your invasion a lot. It is also a good thing to have if attacked in some cases.

[mathusalem]

use boots of quickness to double the effect of items with spell (acid staff, Tempest, Sceptre of Corruption, Rod of Pheonix, Herald Lance, Rod of Kurgi, Sword of Justice, Crossbows & Bows, Crown of Overmight, Wand of Wild Fire, O'al Kan's Sceptre, Sun Slayer, Standard of the Dammed, Winter Bringer, Skull Standard)

ex : a non-mage commandant can cast 2 drain life per turn with boots of quickness and a Standard of the Dammed

Awaken Sleeper are great for this purpose : high precision and lot of hit points

About Combattants and low level paths
1 level in Water is good for quicken self
1 level in fire for fire shield
1 level in astral for luck / body etheral
1 level in death for reanimation
1 level in nature for protection / forge food / eagle Eyes
1 level in air for aim
2 level in air for mistform
3 level in death for soul vortex
1 level in blood for blood Vengeance



In blood :
Blood Boil is the only battle spell usable without slaves (1b & 1f)
Agony is really useful with High level caster, Harm too.
Infernal Prison or Claws of Kokytos are usefull for casting under astral corruption or to send to hell big horrors

[Wrana]

On eye & heart implants - unfortunately, in Dominions they work differently than in Earthdawn where the idea appeared first. So - do NOT use them on commanders which suffered such injuries. Especially not in case of eye - commander won't have his missing eye replaced with a magical one, he'll lose his remaining one! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
BTW, I'm also against this thread (and we have trivia one!) - but I think that many people still won't read it so we'll still have amusing posts in MPs...

[Ironhawk]

Generally speaking, do not mix units with different movement speeds into the same squad. It will cause the squad to break formation as they charge the enemy and make them easier to kill.

There are some notable exception to this rule (like with Tramplers), but it generally holds.

[K]

Some good events and bad events only happen with non-luck scales. For example, Magic means more gem events. On the flipside, Death lets foreign princes die in your lands and drop magic items and loot into your lap.

[sansanjuan]

Things that I wish I knew early on... part #1

Start only one MP game early in your Dom 3 Multi-Player (MP) career unless you forsee that 8 weeks down the road you'll have lots of time to take your turns. There is probably an equation to the effect
Turn creation time is a function of (Turn# , held Provinces , #potential province battles, your personal micromanagement threshold, nation type, etc). I understand that some late game epic battle take hours to set up.

Micro management, though time consuming, does pay dividends.

Site searching early often pays back big later on in the game.

Multi-front wars often end like Hitler's...

In game diplomacy can be just as (and even more) important than research, units, and tactics.

Like many other turn based fantasy games magic and gem income rule the roost in later turns.

Read Sheap's tips.

Make sure all your NAPs (Non-agression pacts) are non-ambiguous.

Is there a Dom3 acronym list posted anywhere? I remember GoR, GoH and others throwing me early on.

Try to be a little unpredictable in MP games. Fortune tends to favor the bold.

-SSJ

[Ironhawk]

The tips sansanjuan is referring to was a collection of advice about how to conduct yourself personally in an MP game:

Sheap's Tips (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3maars&Number=474483&Foru m=,All_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=8&Limit=25&Main=47 4483&Search=true&where=&Name=5826&daterange=&newer val=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Pos t474483)

I agree with sansan also about MP diplomacy. In MP games, you are fighting not one, but two wars. The regular dominions one, but also the diplomatic one. If you lose either, you lose the game. This is a key fact which very often seperates the veterans from the newbies.

[moderation]

thejeff said:
Making your starting commander a prophet has the advantage of being slightly less vulnerable to stray arrows (and leaving your scout free to scout), but the disadvantage of having higher fatigue due to armor. Also you can't patrol first turn for more money. It's a trade off.



Is there anything about being prophet that makes your commander less vulnerable to arrows? I know there's a +2 defense bonus, but that shouldn't help...

[vfb]

Prophets are less vulnerable inside your dominion because of higher HP, plus any air bless if applicable, plus E9 bless if applicable.

But I'm pretty sure thejeff means starting commanders are less vulnerable to stray arrows than scouts.

[BigDisAwesome]

I think he's referring to the fact that most commanders have much better armor than scouts. And sometimes shields too.

[Renojustin]

And remember that having a Magic-3 dominion can hurt you just as easily as it can help you in battle, for the same reasons.

[capnq]

sansanjuan said: Is there a Dom3 acronym list posted anywhere? I remember GoR, GoH and others throwing me early on.

pp. 289-290 of the manual, but that's not an exhaustive list.

[cleveland]

Don't recruit light cavalry. It's a sucker's bet.

[Dedas]

Are you kidding, cleveland? If your race has no access to any cavalry and you don't have much resources in the region, I say recruit them. They are great if used properly, so put them on the flanks and let them rampage through archers and mages.

[Sombre]

Even at the best of times I think light cav are unlikely to recoup their gold cost in terms of damage dealt. It's possible, but that's true of almost any unit.

[Aezeal]

Not to mention that how much position troops (and cavalry especially) to the sides and set them to attack rear they usually end up attacking the sides of the main body of troops advancing towards me. Very rarely teh actual rearmost units are reached

[Dedas]

If you don't let the enemy advance first they will not attack the rear as the rear is still the enemies in the front rows. So the solution is to put them way back and set them to either hold and attack rear or guard commander, and then set the commander to holdx3-4 and attack rear. All depending on what enemy you face. Works pretty well if you do it right.

Light Cavalry are also good raiders and pillagers.

[Amhazair]

I realise this is a very niche use, but I've recruited light cavalry to block/slow massed minotaur tramplers. Being size 3 with high defence they do a decent job at holding them.

[AreaOfEffect]

-Study the many magic spells in the game. Knowing the spells will have immediate results.

-You can display spells of a specific skill by pressing a single letter while studying the spell list. Press 'f' for fire, 'a' for air, 'w' for water, 'e' for earth, 's' for astral, 'n' for nature, and 'd' for death. Press the letter again to see all the spells. This will help narrow your reading.

-Spells of particular interest are those that boost your skill in battle, such as Summon Earthpower and Phoenix Power. Nearly all of these spells can be found in conjuration 3 or 4. They are important as they increase the spells available to you. However, it's best to research these spells after you have something worth while to cast.

-Try not to use alchemy in a MP game. If the game is large enough, then you can almost always make even trades for gems you want or sell your gems off for much more money. Besides, making trades is the first step to establishing good relations with your neighbors.

[NTJedi]

In regards to light cavalry from independents they overall have poor value. Look at the gold per unit ratio compared to buying a heavy infantry from independents.

You can buy either 20 light cavalry or 50 heavy infantry... running some tests will reveal the 50 heavy infantry will do better. If you have TONS of gold and very very few resources then you may need to choose the light cavalry of independents. The light cavalry from independents also do not carry any shields making them more vunerable to archers.

This is in regards to the games default and not the CBM mod which may have a different gold price.

[Dedas]

But heavy infantry isn't cavalry, they suck at fast flanking manoveurs. So just pitting them against eachother isn't fair.

[Ironhawk]

It is fair tho, Dedas, since you spend the same resource (gold) to get them.

[AreaOfEffect]

It isn't really a fair comparison. It's a gold heavy unit versus a resource heavy unit. It's important to remember that resource isn't a limitless supply. It also means that the units naturally have different strengths.

Heavy infantry are ideal against units that use light weapons, such as short swords and spears. They generally have shields and so they fare well against missile fire. Heavy infantry are made to beat light calvary, so the comparison is even less fair.

Light calvary generally come with bows, combined with their fast movement they become ideal for hit and run tactics. As mentioned before, they are great for raiding provinces.

Dominions is often a rock-paper-scissor game. This would become more apparent when you include barbarians into the equation. Barbarians often beat heavy infantry because they can overcome their protection and the infantry don't have missiles. Light calvary often beats barbarians cause they have bows and their higher defense works better then protection.

So please stop comparing.

[Ironhawk]

No, really, it is a fair comparison. The light cavalry argument has been played out in dominions many times by many people so I'm not going to counter again - just do a forum search.

[thejeff]

If flanking could work even semi reliably or if light cavalry could skirmish, firing and staying out of close combat, then it would be useful.

Once in a while cavalry well actually get past the front line and reach the unprotected rear, but far more often they'll close with the heavies in front and light cavalry gets slaughtered there.

Using light cavalry as archers is pointless, since you're paying a premium for troops that have no real advantage over cheap foot archers. Sure, light cavalry can beat barbarians because they've done some damage with their bows before the barbarians can close and the high defense helps them survive, but 4-5 times as many foot archers would have routed the barbarians before they closed.

I'll admit a fondness for some of the heavy archer units. LA T'ien Chi Cavalry and LA Man's Defenders come to mind.

[Dedas]

Oh, come on. If you know simple setup of units there is no big deal in achieving good flanking and slaughter of archers. Light cavalry is worth the price, but not if just throw them in the meat grinder that is centre front.

[Aezeal]

ehm could a moderator move this discussion to a new thread?
(or could you voluntarily continue it elsewhere)

this was not what I inteded.. it will kill the thread and I'm happy about how it was going (I learned a lot)

--> PS I did like to see jeff agreeing that flanking isn't reliable though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif (and IMHO light cav isn't worth it either)

[DonCorazon]

Need to bid high for mercenaries in MP - its not like SP where you can get them for just a buck or two over the asking price.

Watch your supplies - starving units have heavy morale penalties. You can click a unit and push S to grab any starving units. Use that to separate them from the rest of your army and/or to send them somewhere with enough supplies to feed them before they start getting diseased. Be especially careful with large units like elephants.

Try and get astral mages to accompany your armies. You need them in the mid to late game to protect yourself from getting Mind Hunted.

Realize at some point your conventional troops will be less important than SCs and powerful mages. You should have some strategy for getting SCs, such as Tartarians and Elemental Royalty.

If you are playing against a nation with assassins, protect your commanders with bodyguards.

[NTJedi]

The light calvary from independents has been discussed on the forums as Ironhawk has mentioned and the majority agree their cost is too high within the official game.

4 in any magic path for your pretender gives your blessed units a special bonus.

Play large maps with VP provinces so the game can finish within a more realistic timeframe.

[moderation]

In your diplomatic dealings with other players, insist on clarity, even if it requires a lot of back and forth yammering. This reduces the possibility of future misunderstandings.

However it also increases the possibility that people will get sick of PMing with you and ignore you entirely. It is a rather fine line. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[AreaOfEffect]

If your about to lose your castle to a much larger force then you can handle and you still have a nearby province, break the siege early and retreat.

If they storm the castle then anyone who survives the battle will die anyhow. If you break the siege then those that retreat will appear in nearby provinces you control.

DO NOT do this if your castle is surrounded by enemy provinces as retreating will again mean curtain death.

Also, stealthy units can sneak in and out of sieged castles you control.

[thejeff]

I don't believe that's true. Units that retreat from a castle storming do retreat to neighboring provinces as usual.

[cleveland]

Dedas said:
Light Cavalry are also good raiders and pillagers.



I’m not saying they’re bad. I’m just saying that, in general, they aren’t worth the cost.

An experienced player can leverage the strengths of a niche unit, but noobs should be aware that light cav is pretty niche, and their money is best spent elsewhere.

[AreaOfEffect]

Nevermind, your right. You can retreat and live when being stormed. I stand corrected. Thanks jeff.

[MaxWilson]

Dedas said:
Also, people tend to forget that Magic 3 gives several other benefits than just research points. For example:

[LIST]* 30% less fatigue when casting spells in combat.




Well, sort of. Depending upon the mage and the spell, the base encumbrance cost can be a significant fraction of the spell fatigue cost, and Magic scale doesn't help with that. For instance, if you're in a Communion, IIRC *every* communion slave takes encumbrance fatigue for every spell he participates in. In that case, you might as well be in Drain dominion because encumbrance is 80+% of your fatigue anyway. Magic helps when you cast big expensive spells on your own, not so much when you're casting cheap little spells like Cloud of Death.

-Max