Qwerty - MA team game. Finished

[ano]

This is a MA team game for more or less skilled players. Actually, people of any skill are welcome but if you realize you are a total newbie, better join one of the newbie games which are rather popular here.

The rules are the following:
- Players sign up as teams of two people and the nation pairs will be randomly distributed between these teams.
- If you don't have a teammate, you will be randomly given one from the list of players who also didn't have it.
- Suggested map is Alexander by PashaDawg (see attachment if you haven't got it yet).
- Graphs on, sites 50%, renaming on, HoF 15, everything else standard
- Host is Llamaserver. Please read the FAQ (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531116) if you don't know how to use it
- Hosting schedule: 24 hours per turn for first 15 turns, 48 hours starting from turn 16.
- Partners are free to share their pair of nations in any way the like.
- Partners may watch turns of each other, may substitute each other if there's a need and may even be subscribed to receive each other's turns (however I'm not sure that it is possible at Llamaserver)

Here are the nation pairs:
Arcoscephale(Ossa) - Oceania(klagrok)
Pythium(Hoplosternum) - Ulm(kasnavada)
Eriu(ddavidd) - Ermor(Solmyr)
Mictlan(Baalz) - Atlantis (Meglobob)
Agartha(karnoza) - Tien Chi(ano)
Abysia(Janlm) - Shinuyama (OoohSnap)
Caelum(Dimaz) - Bandar Log (Kuritza)
Jotunheim(Kheldron) - Pangaea(Sicaire)
Vanheimdanbo) - R'lyeh(Dirol Terminator)
Man(Cor2) - C'tis(WraithLord) - Winner
Machaka(Don Pablo) - Marignon(Veto)

Here's the list of exploits I would not like to see in this game:
- "Cast long-lasting battlefield enchantment and retreat". Please, don't script your mage who casts a battlefield enchantment to leave earlier that round 6 or 5 (for returning)
- "Overfilling enemy lab". Don't send magic items to your enemy to make him lose his own items.
- "Mists of Deception + Wrathful Skies". This one doesn't need description, I think.
- any other severe bugs found in the process of the game

<font color="#0000BF">Game has been created at llamaserver. This is the link (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Qwerty)</font>

[Zeldor]

CBM? I really don't know why any game now would start without CBM.

Oh, and teams are not so equal. And any water nations in team game will just slow down the game.

[ano]

I would not like it as I really see no reason why a game would start with it. I like vanilla game as it is.
What imbalance do you see in teams? Of course, they are not so equal but I don't think there's a balance it this game at all.

[Zeldor]

Why would you prefer unbalanced vanilla with many useless and overpriced things?

Land-water teams are not good. They cannot really help land partner. OR the other way around. Man-C'tis team is very weak too. Weakest nation of the game + one decent one. You also forgot about the new race coming with patch.

Anyway, if that is not CBM I am not joining. I will have much more free time soon and I will want to take part in team game. But I got to know some MP and how many things are unbalanced in vanilla so I am not touching it. Making exception only for mega-game.

[quantum_mechani]

ano said:
Of course, they are not so equal but I don't think there's a balance it this game at all.

This seems to be the eternal misunderstanding of CBM. It's not really about balance between nation (though that is not ignored) but about opening up options. People in their right mind should simply not pick things like the Son of the Sun or cast summons like sea dogs in the base game. Making these sorts of things into true viable options is the number one goal of the mod.

[Hoplosternum]

I'd like to play. I would rather play CBM as it does try and balance things a little. It makes certain very weak spells, items and pretenders slightly better and therefore not such obvious things to avoid.

But no problem if you want vanilla.

[Micah]

If CBM is going to be in play I'd like to sign up, and QM has agreed to team with me.

[ano]

quantum_mechani said:
This seems to be the eternal misunderstanding of CBM. It's not really about balance between nation (though that is not ignored) but about opening up options. People in their right mind should simply not pick things like the Son of the Sun or cast summons like sea dogs in the base game. Making these sorts of things into true viable options is the number one goal of the mod.


I understand that. And I am pretty sure you are right as for the balancing useless things and I appreciate the job you've done on it. However, I don't feel it is right time for me (and not only for me) to start experiencing CBM from the team game.
Zeldor:
I disagree as for Man being the weakest nation and C'tis being decent. Also, I don't think that land-water make a bad alliance. The may be even more able to help each other than land allies who have hostile space between them. OTOH, water-water alliance makes people divide water between them other than expand and fight for it while ally fights for the land. I really don't that water-water alliance has any chance in the team game.
However if we don't have full house then after nations are assigned, we may randomly assign the remaining pairs among those who won't be satisfied with the choice.

[Zeldor]

Ok, I understand and respect your choice.

If someone decides to start CBM team game I will join. Or start one myself in 2-3 weeks.

[Cor2]

I support you on the no CMB mod choice Ano.

I have alot of games going right now, and I am losing them all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But summer is coming up and I will have alot of free time. So I am in. I do not have a team mate.

[Ossa]

Sign me up plz;)

[coobe]

i would love to join

[sum1lost]

Cor2, want to team with me?

[Dedas]

I'm in.

[coobe]

hey dedas, lets make a team http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Dedas]

Sure thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

Updated.
I think we'll start when we have about 14-16 players. People seem to be not very interesting in the game. Probably that's because there's megagame starting.

[Wokeye]

I will play! Don't have a team-mate yet.

[FAJ]

I wouldn't mind playing in this, but I don't have a teamate lined up. If anyone doesn't mind a weak partener, I would be happy to jump into this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironhawk]

I'm interested. Wokeye, you want to team up? We made a pretty good pair in Epotara.

Also, I would like to have CBM in this game. It really goes out of its way to make the heaps of useless units and spells actually somewhat useful.

[Dedas]

I'm definitely against CBM in this game. I want plain vanilla.

[ano]

Ironhawk, I would greatly appreciate if you joined but I also definitely don't want CBM. Once again, I have nothing against it but I like vanilla game as it is.

[quantum_mechani]

I see the Just Say No To CB campaign has met great success. Remember, don't cave to peer pressure, just say 'sorry man, I don't do that stuff'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ano]

No) The society is just very conservative - it is a usual thing. A rare man will start seeking risky adventures in other countries if he has got a comfortable armchair and a cup of tea.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah why no CB? All it does is make more units more usable. How can you be against that?

[Wokeye]

I'll team up with Ironhawk, then.

[Ironhawk]

I'd also like to point out that trying to put a game together with skilled players and then refusing to use CBM is at cross purposes. Already Micah and QM, arguably two of the best players, have already stated they wont play without it.

Are you really dead set against it, ano?

[ano]

Yes, I don't want it. And it's not only my opinion.
I already explained my reasons and the only thing I can add is that it is quite another game - not the one many people are used to. To play a new game successfully you need to know its features. Maybe, I would agree to play CBM if it was a usual game, but it's my first team game and I think that having a partner (and possibly unfamiliar race) obviously requires much planning and thinking. And I really would not want to study CBM in the process.

[Dedas]

I fully agree with Ano.

[Tyrant]

I'll not be playing, so this is a neutral opinion. I'd say the Jot/Pan team, and especially the Marignon/Caelum teams are too tough and you might want to shuffle the lineup a bit.

[ano]

I wouldn't say Jotuns are too powerful in MA and Pangaea needs much micro to be played well, but as for Caelum-Marignon, maybe it's worth switching Caelum and Machaka?

[ano]

Post deleted by ano

[coobe]

Jotun is quite average in MA imo

caelum - marignon i considered weak... pythium - ulm however is strong

[ano]

I think that Caelum-Bandar and Machaka-Marignon will be better.
As for Pythium-Ulm... Yes, this pair has nice potential but there should be strong and weak pairs. It's almost inevitable, I think.

[coobe]

of course its inevitable in such a complex game

but considering that there is still diplomacy and a bit luck, i think its quite balanced

[Ironhawk]

No, I will have to pass on this game then.

I've played enough vanilla games and I'm tired of seeing the same inappropriately priced units being abused OVER and over. Don't want to experience that again.

[ano]

Sad to hear this...

[ano]

Btw, why don't the developers fix all these "inappropriate prices"? What do they say on this?

[quantum_mechani]

It's been said before, but the devs just aren't interested in devoting much time to balance, as opposed to bug fixing and new content. It's assumed that those who feel there are significant balance issues will use or create balance mods.

[Ironhawk]

Yes, it is as QM says. We discussed this with them during the beta and they made thier position quite clear.

For all intents and purposes, CBM *is* the balance fix that the devs refused to make. Thats why I dont understand your hesitancy to use it.

[ano]

I already explained my reasons. Maybe, I will come to CBM but not now.

[ddavidd]

Hello,
I'd like to get in, with Solmyr as team partner

[Wokeye]

Actually, I had better not join this game, stupid RL hassles ATM.

[ano]

It's rather sad to realize that people just don't like vanilla team games. Or maybe there're too many games running currently?

[Wokeye]

My decision to strike my name off the signup list is not to do with the vanilla/CB discussion - just too much Rl stuff came up over the last few days.

You'll get enough, although there are a lot of MP games going...

[ano]

This one seems to be unpopular despite it looks to be very interesting. So what should we do? Start is as it is, wait a bit more or just give it up? Or may be someone can be invited?
Any ideas?

[quantum_mechani]

ano said:
It's rather sad to realize that people just don't like vanilla team games. Or maybe there're too many games running currently?

As Ironhawk was saying, making a game for veteran players and leaving out CB doesn't leave you a huge player pool.

[coobe]

seconded

[Baalz]

I'll play, CBM, no CBM, whatever. No partner lined up.

[Janlm]

if there is still space, i'd like to sign up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[OoohSnap]

Is there still place in the game? If yes I'd like to sign up

[ano]

OoohSnap:
Yes, there's plenty of space, so you're welcome. I just have to hope you won't be staling as much as in Highlander;)

We already have 16 players so I think I will assign teams and nations on Tuesday. Let's leave Monday for those who wanted to sign up but didn't do yet.

[OoohSnap]

ano said:
OoohSnap:
Yes, there's plenty of space, so you're welcome. I just have to hope you won't be staling as much as in Highlander;)

We already have 16 players so I think I will assign teams and nations on Tuesday. Let's leave Monday for those who wanted to sign up but didn't do yet.



Hehe thanks, I would like to apologize for stalling so much in the Highlander game. I had some problems with my schedule due to school and all, sometimes I even ended up in forgetting I had to play a turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Meglobob]

I would like to sign up. Not played a team game before so it should be fun. No team mate.

ano - its probably because of summer that sign up is a bit slow, lots of people on vacation, etc and the megagame has probably absorbed lots of players.

[ano]

OoohSnap said:
Hehe thanks, I would like to apologize for stalling so much in the Highlander game. I had some problems with my schedule due to school and all, sometimes I even ended up in forgetting I had to play a turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif


Actually, no problem with it) We, madmen, found your provinces to be of great use for our insane needs.

Meglobob:
You are welcome)

sum1lost just PM'ed me and said he won't be able to play, so we still have 16 people.

[Baalz]

Hey Meglobob, wanna team up?

[Meglobob]

Baalz said:
Hey Meglobob, wanna team up?



Sounds good to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

ano - can you put me &amp; Baalz down as a team?

[ano]

Sure thing)

[Janlm]

so who needs a team mate then?

[ano]

I think that the best choice for everyone is to find a predictable teammate because what I read at the forums about random-made teams didn't inspire me at all.
Even if you are the best-of-all hardcore player you will most probably lose to your mediocre opponents who play as a team. That's actually true for almost any team game, RTS, for example.

[kasnavada]

It's holiday time in France too, that cannot help. Furthermore, weather is good for the first time in months...

Hum, I went here because I wanted to join. I have no team mate though. I'm searching for one right now.

[OoohSnap]

Janlm said:
so who needs a team mate then?



I need one, want to team up?

[danbo]

Me and my team-mate would love to join if there is still a place.

[ano]

Who is your teammate? If he's not registered provide some nickname, please.

[Janlm]

sure thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hoplosternum]

I need a teammate if anyone is still looking for one.

[Kheldron]

I'd like to join in with Sicaire as partner.

[Sicaire]

yep count me in with kheldron if there is still room for us

[kasnavada]

I'm still needing a partner too Hoplosternum. Actually I was about to send you a mail about it.

[ano]

We have the only slot left.
It is reserved for WraithLord if he agrees to join and open otherwise. Still we do need this last person because everyone needs a pair.

[Dedas]

How romantic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

That was Noah who said so)

[coobe]

when will we know our races ?

[ano]

Tomorrow (I mentioned it before) or once we get the last player. Also I need to know whether kasnavada and Hoplosternum form a team.
If they do then the only people without teams are Cor2, Ossa, and FAJ

[Hoplosternum]

Yep that's great. I'll team up with kasnavada.

[coobe]

you could already make the nation assignement =)

[ano]

coobe
Understand that nation assignment means team assignment. I left Monday for those who either didn't sign up yet or didn't form a team.
I understand your impatience though;-)

We have only 3 lone players so probably I'll try to distribute everything today.

[kasnavada]

Great !

[Hoplosternum]

Will we start next to our teammate - i.e. are you placing us on the map? Or are the starting positions random?

[ano]

I think that they will be random. I see no problem with it. However, this is open to discussion.

[ano]

So... The drawing is done and you may enjoy your races and develop team strategies (see first post).
I think we'll start no earlier then Sunday and once we receive a teammate for Cor2 (WraithLord wanted to join but he said he won't be able to play until May, 20th) and have all pretenders uploaded.
I don't think it is worth making predefined starting locations on the map as I see no problem with random ones but that is open to discussion. Also if you have any suggestions on the game, map etc, let's discuss them.
I will also add the list of exploits I wouldn't like to see in the game. Suggestions are welcome.

[kasnavada]

Fine ! so we have the week to work some strategies out.

[Sicaire]

btw don't you think there is an error on the alexander map: province 276 should be Farmland I think.

[ano]

Yes, it looks like a farmland... Probably, you should contact PashaDawg on this issue.

[Meglobob]

Looks like you have got the major exploits listed already ano.

I take it each individual team sorts out which of the 2 races they play between each another?

Random starting places may be unfair if lets say 2 teammates start next door to each another and another 2 on opposite sides of the map.

[ano]

Actually wraparound map doesn't have opposite sides. And I am not sure that being close to each other is a big advantage. If you have better suggestion, let's do something. However, if we decide to make predefined locations, it would be better if someone more close to the map-making did it.
This has a downside too: when locations are predefined, very early rushes are available.

Answer to your second question is "yes". I mentioned this in the first post ("rules" section).

[PashaDawg]

Province 276 is farmland on the latest version of the map. Note that the updated map file is posted in the thread a few posts below the first post in the map thread. If I got it wrong still, let me know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=573514&amp;page=2&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1

[FAJ]

Sorry, but I am going to have to drop out of this one. I wont have time in the comming weeks and I don't want to make a commitment that I can't keep.

[WraithLord]

ano said:
I think we'll start no earlier then Sunday and once we receive a teammate for Cor2 (WraithLord wanted to join but he said he won't be able to play until May, 20th) and have all pretenders uploaded.




That's true - thanks ano for PMing me. However, I'll be back on the 20th so I'll need at least a day to contemplate my game strategy and more importantly discuss with Cor2 thus I'll only be able to start on the 21st. I hate to impose delays on the majority so I'll leave it up to you players and to ano to decide whether or not that can work. If so, I'll be happy to join this game and work together with Cor2, otherwise, no big deal, there's pleny of games to go around http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

FAJ
That's bad. Btw, you were in one of the strongest teams, IMO.

WraithLord
I think, we will wait for you if noone objects. Also we now have one more open slot and need to fill it.

[WraithLord]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Thanks!

[klagrok]

Hey Ill take open slot if it is still open that is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

Now it is not open if you take it;)
Contact your teammate and prepare to battle)

[klagrok]

Ill take it!!!

[coobe]

when is the deadline ? i dont get a response from my mate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[kasnavada]

AFAIK sunday or so.

[ano]

I'll contact llamabeast on game creation on Friday or Saturday. After that everyone will have to upload pretenders. Not sure about the deadline. As this is a team game, everyone should have his teammate. If the whole team will be missing after May, 21, we will start without it.

[Dedas]

Sorry but I will have to leave this game due to stressing RL. I'm sorry.

[ano]

Bad...
I opened the slot and will ask llamabeast today to create the game at server.
coobe, maybe you'll invite someone you'd like to team with?

[WraithLord]

ano said:
I'll contact llamabeast on game creation on Friday or Saturday. After that everyone will have to upload pretenders. Not sure about the deadline. As this is a team game, everyone should have his teammate. If the whole team will be missing after May, 21, we will start without it.


I assume this means I'll have the 21th to submit my pretender. right?

[ano]

Yes, certainly. And speaking frankly, I seriously suspect that in fact game will start later.
That's why I think it's right to create the game now to be ready if someone suddenly disappears. Many players who signed up didn't show up since that time, so...

[klagrok]

My team is ready---already have our nations figured out--have 4 pretenders created, just trying to figure out which one to use....

[Kheldron]

Me and Sicaire are still in, just polishing our pretender designs :-)

[ano]

Nice to hear this)
Game named Qwerty has been created at llamaserver and you are free to upload pretenders there. Those of you who never used it should refer to the Llamaserver FAQ (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=531116).

Note that you should NOT pass-protect your pretenders and please after you upload pretender, specify, which exactly nation you are playing

[Baalz]

I received a pretender file from you, but unfortunately your pretender file is for Middle Age Mictlan, while the game 'Qwerty' is set in the Invalid Age! Age. Please try again with a pretender for the Invalid Age! Age.

I'm PMing llamabeast.

[ano]

I already wrote him about this.
Seems to be fine now

[coobe]

im stepping out of this game. sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif wanted to play with dedas and maybe its better if i concentrate on the mega game only

have fun

[Xanatos]

i can join, but im not very good with mid-ages

[ano]

I don't think that age really matters.
If you find yourself a partner, you still have some time to get acquainted with your races and discuss team strategy.

[Xanatos]

fair enough, lets say im noob then, the only nations i have experience with is early helheim and late ermor and maybe some late rlyeh/mid ermor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon27.gif

anyone wanna be my partner?=)

[WraithLord]

ano said:
Note that you should NOT pass-protect your pretenders and please after you upload pretender, specify, which exactly nation you are playing



I'm sorry but I didn't get the part about not pass protecting pretenders. Can you please elaborate on that b/c I find the prospect of playing a game w/o pass protecting pretenders to be awkward at best.

[schragnasher]

ill get in with you xanatos, we can be the noob brigade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif if your up for it

[Cor2]

Wraithlord, llamaserver does not need passwords b/c only you recive your turn file. Only the admin or Llama can change who gets your turn file and if they do you will recive a notification.

[ano]

WraithLord said:

ano said:
Note that you should NOT pass-protect your pretenders and please after you upload pretender, specify, which exactly nation you are playing



I'm sorry but I didn't get the part about not pass protecting pretenders. Can you please elaborate on that b/c I find the prospect of playing a game w/o pass protecting pretenders to be awkward at best.


Llamaserver doesn't need pass-protecting pretenders as there's no way for other player to see your turn. The only person who theoretically could do this is game admin but all his actions are logged and viewable by anyone.
OTOH, it will be much easier to set player to AI if he suddenly disappears. You may look at llamaserver FAQ and ask other people who played a lot at it.
However, I do not insist on it, obviously. It is up to you to decide but if you don't need that password, why have it? I played only one game at Llamaserver (Highlander) and protected my pretender. Later I understood that had absolutely nop sense.

[Meglobob]

WraithLord said:I'm sorry but I didn't get the part about not pass protecting pretenders. Can you please elaborate on that b/c I find the prospect of playing a game w/o pass protecting pretenders to be awkward at best.



Wraithlord, its perfectly correct, when playing with Llamaserver there is no need for a password. Your turns are 100% safe. Llamaserver has hosted so many games, its hosting 20+ now!

All hail the great Llamaserver... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

All hail the great Llamaserver...


+1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Got your point guys. This is very cool.

+2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Hoplosternum]

If we are playing on Alexander isn't 20 players enough to start? Or are we definitely waiting for the last two?

[ano]

Yes, 20 players is enough and we will start with 20. I mentioned it:

If the whole team is missing after May, 21, we will start without it.


Xanatos &amp; schragnasher, please, make a decision whether you join or not.

[Xanatos]

im in, whats the port information? what nations are still available?

[ano]

All required information is in the first post. Please, read it before asking.
No port is needed it as we play at llamaserver. Also no single players are accepted now, teams only. If you find yourself a teammate, you're welcome to play as Machaka-Marignon.

[Xanatos]

its PBEM? oh.....in that case im going to pass, sorry!

[ano]

Despite everything we are full again)

[veto]

veto is in)
I'll be Marignon)

[don_Pablo]

i`ll be machaka

[Sicaire]

I'll be Pangaea (meaning kheldron is Jotunheim).

[klagrok]

Ossa is going to play Arcoscephale and Im taking Oceania

[Hoplosternum]

I'm Pythium and Kasnavada is Ulm.

[WraithLord]

Man and Ctis are in.

[ano]

We have only 2 players missing and I believe they will be ready tomorrow, so, probably, we'll start on Thursday (as expected).

WraithLord
I need to indicate nation controllers in the first post, so please tell which exactly nation you're playing.

[Cor2]

Wraithlord is playing Ctis . I am playing Man

[ano]

Game is full. I hope we will start once llamabeast reads my PM.
GL to everyone.

[ano]

Also, if you'd like to send your turns to your teammates, you'll have to do it manually as llamaserver doesn't support sending turns to multiple emails.

[ano]

So the game has started. Gl everybody)

[klagrok]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Let the fun begin http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Good luck to all teams.

[Janlm]

i'm going away for a few days tomorrow morning, i'll be back again sometimes monday next week. I have been trying to find a sub, but I haven't been successfull. Can i ask to have the game paused for a few days? If not, then you will just have to live with a couple of stalls from me.

[ano]

Can't your teammate play for both of you? AFAIK, this shouldn't cause license key problems.
Four days is quite big period of time, but I think it is acceptable, if we can't think of anything else.

[Kheldron]

It seems to me that was precisely the idea behind teamplay...to have a teammate to sub for you in case of.

[ano]

OoohSnap appeared to be a great staler (as I suspected, btw), so I'm not sure that Janlm is encouraged by thoughts that his teammate will be staling two turns a time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.
Also, Janlm, if we manage to find a sub (not newbie) while you're away, will you find it acceptable if I just change email for Abysia and resend him your turn? (hope you don't have password on pretender)

Btw, it's turn 15 now and so we are switching to 48 hours per turn mode.

[Janlm]

yeah feel free to find a replacement for me, my preteder is not password protected.

and i really think the game will have a problem with two people running two pretenders in a multiplayer game, but i'm not entirely sure.

[ano]

Jurri agreed to play for you until Monday so hopefully we'll not get a pause.

[Ossa]

Could the admin send my next turns (from Friday morning onwards) to my team mate? I'll be away for the weekend.

[ano]

No problem with it but
1) I need his email
2) I'm not sure that if the turns are submitted from single copy of dominions there won't be a key violation.
OTOH it was said somewhere that if several turns are submitted from same machine, key violation won't happen. I don't know for sure.

[klagrok]

Ano sent you my email address

[ano]

Done. Arco's email changed to yours.

[klagrok]

cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[kasnavada]

I'm baiscally dead (no more troops nor territory) so I set myself to AI. Byebye all !

[Ossa]

Arco can be put back again;)

[ano]

PM me your email, please. I am not llamabeast to know everything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.
Same request to Janlm when he returns.

[klagrok]

Ossa havent done your turn yet if you are back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

klagrok, was everything fine with your turns? No key problems?
If so then now we know for sure that several turns can be played from single machine.

[Janlm]

i'm back, thanks for helping me out with the sub. I am ready to take over my turns again.

[klagrok]

No problems on this end---had both in same folder. Unless you of course can blame a few defeats on the keys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

Janlm, glad to see you)
Please PM me your email, otherwise I'm unable to change email for Abysia to yours)

[ano]

Hosting postponed by 12 hours due to request from Bandar-Caelum team.

[ano]

Oooooh! I really love someone breaking peace treaties without any declaration!
Let it be so...

[Kheldron]

I'd like to clarify some point before looking like a noob.

Can you have a NAP without ever actually writing words like treaty, NAP etc...or formally saying you won't attack him for X turns or indefinitely ?

For example, if you agreed on someone's claims over indy provinces during expansion (like 10-15 turns ago), do you have a binding NAP forbidding you to ever attack that nation without due warning ?

I would have thought no but then I'm fairly new to MP around here (only played in irl friends circle before the last 2 months)

So please tell me before I ever write anything to anyone that would be thought as a peace treaty because I didn't care to insult him to remind him we were neutrals at best... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ano]

No problem. For me personally "peace treaty" means that the opposing side should be notified at least just before attack. Otherwise I can see absolutely no sense in it. Do you?) Everything is like in real life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Was a word "treaty" written? I don't remember but the word "peace" definitely was.
Once again, no problem. I just made some mistakes I shouldn't have made)

[Janlm]

i'm pretty much done for, thanks for a good game.

And may i say here in the end, that i think it was a real bad idea with random placements in a team game. I ended up half a world away from my ally, next to people that ended up right next to their allies. We should remember that if we do this again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

Yes, I agree it was a bad idea despite I don't know who you are talking about. My scout reports say that of all pairs only in two people started next to each other and both of them are rather far from your hot wastelands.
But it was a bad idea because of inequality of starting positions, really.
Thanks for the game, Janlm.

[Hoplosternum]

I'm out too. Switched to AI to play through the last turns. Congratulations to my conquer Dimaz of Caelum.

[ano]

Thanks for the game, Hoplosternum

Hosting postponed by 12 hours due to request from Bandar-Caelum team.

[ano]

I'll need some time to complete my current turn in the evening, so I postpone hosting today for a while (2 hours)

[Meglobob]

Looks like all the seperate wars in Qwerty are going to join up into one big world war! Cool... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

Lol, didn't realize you meant all against me Bob! A new personal best, 5:1 and with the exception of one I'm smaller than each of them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Wow, you're like those kong-fu masters that easily handle a bunch of guys with spectacular moves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Kudos Baalz.

[ano]

Nice team strategy, isn't it? All against one...
I didn't realize that strategy before the game began, however I've already tasted much of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Baalz]

WraithLord said:
Wow, you're like those kong-fu masters that easily handle a bunch of guys with spectacular moves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Kudos Baalz.



Lol, I wasn't bragging, I was whining. I'm gonna be going down hard very shortly.

[Meglobob]

Boo hiss, my poor teammate... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Ganged 5:1? You bunch of cowards!

Its how Mictlan usually goes thou in a orgy of blood. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

I don't know what caused to 5:1 ratio. Maybe the hungry sharks gather at the smell of blood or maybe its your name that promotes such fear that players prioritize as a quality target. In any case, usually RAND games eliminate at least the second factor.

[ano]

I need a smth. like 24h pause to complete my turn. Hope, nobody objects...

Upd: It suddenly appeared that I didn't need that delay really so everything was in time.

[ano]

Game will be paused for 6 hours due to request to Kuritza from Bandal Log.

[WraithLord]

Hi Guys,

Cor2, my teammate as Man, has sent it me a message that he'll no longer be able to take his turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

This leaves two possible options:
A. Pause the game until I manage to find a sub.
B. Although it will take double time from me I'm willing to sub for my teammate and assume responsibility over Man.

I personally think option B is better since it will not delay the game and since it will save me tons of time trying to get the sub (if at all found) up to speed on the the game, our team strategy and all those little details that can make the difference for us.

What do you think?

[klagrok]

go for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

WraithLord said:
Hi Guys,

Cor2, my teammate as Man, has sent it me a message that he'll no longer be able to take his turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

This leaves two possible options:
A. Pause the game until I manage to find a sub.
B. Although it will take double time from me I'm willing to sub for my teammate and assume responsibility over Man.

I personally think option B is better since it will not delay the game and since it will save me tons of time trying to get the sub (if at all found) up to speed on the the game, our team strategy and all those little details that can make the difference for us.

What do you think?


No problem, actually. It will be harder for you to play but easier to win http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. But we'll fight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[WraithLord]

I'm not that sure. Cor2 managed Man very well (IMHO) and brought his perspective and inputs that I think helped us a lot. I guess some aspects of the change will work in my favor while others not.

Anyway, it seems like B option is decided.

ano, can you please make the change that I get Man's turns?- Also can you please give me 24h extension to this turn?

As for our war, I strongly protest your troops and mages stomping poor lizard stock and you pretender which really scares the common folk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[calmon]

Do you know that you need 2 instances with 2 keys of dom3 to play 2 nation in a MP game? Otherwise you end up with one nation denying all orders!

[WraithLord]

Thanks for the warning.

Are you absolutely sure about this?- Isn't Vanheim+R'lyeh currently played by the same player?

In any case, I do have two dominions CDs (I bought the 2nd one just to support IW), so if required I can use them. Just to make sure, is the procedure for playing the turns as follows:
1. Install 2nd instance of dominions on same PC (as first one).
2. Play first nation's turns using first instance and second nation's using second instance.

[calmon]

Well at least it was a problem some time ago. I'm not sure a later patch changed something.

Here is a link to Velusions warning (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=dom3&amp;Number=501892&amp;Forum=, f187,f194,f195&amp;Words=%2Bcd%20%2Bkey&amp;Searchpage=2&amp;L imit=25&amp;Main=501892&amp;Search=true&amp;where=sub&amp;Name=&amp;da terange=1&amp;newerval=5&amp;newertype=y&amp;olderval=&amp;olderty pe=&amp;bodyprev=#Post501892)

[WraithLord]

Got it. Just to be on the safe side I'll use a 2nd install. I hope its possible to have two installs on one machine or else it will be inconvenient.

[ano]

WraithLord
I'll postpone the hosting but I need your email to redirect Man's turns to you. Send it to me via PM, please.

[ano]

Postponed hosting slightly (by 8 hours). I'll need the time to complete the turn tomorrow evening. Hope, it's not too much.

[ano]

Hosting postponed by 12 hours due to request from Caelum-Bandar

[WraithLord]

Would it be possible to move to 72h timer?- The turns are taking longer and longer now, and extending the time to play them would be really helpful.

[ano]

I don't mind but it is usually done on turn 45-50. Can you wait a bit? Also, I will always pause the game if you need id - just ask.

[WraithLord]

Sure, I can wait and if required ask for a pause, just thought it'd be better if we extend timer instead of me nagging you for pauses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[ano]

WraithLord said:
Sure, I can wait and if required ask for a pause, just thought it'd be better if we extend timer instead of me nagging you for pauses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


No problem in pausing really.

[ano]

Hosting interval permanently changed to 72 hours

[WraithLord]

Whoof, this turn in particular takes a lot of planning.

I'd probably be able to complete it in time but if its not too much trouble I'd like to ask for a 12h extension in case I slip.

[ano]

WraithLord said:
Whoof, this turn in particular takes a lot of planning.


I'm afraid.....)


I'd probably be able to complete it in time but if its not too much trouble I'd like to ask for a 12h extension in case I slip.


Ok, if you don't send it in time, I'll postpone hosting.

[WraithLord]

Oh, sorry didn't mean to sound menacing.

Thank you for the safety net. Now, to take a look at what evil tidings the new turn brings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[ano]

Lol...
Six bordering nations decided to swarm the poor nation of T'ien Chi from different directions, like a pack of jackals. Hey, people, I'm pretty sure you will succeed but did you ever hear the words "fair fight"? I know, it's ridiculous to speak about any fairness in war but still. It's strange to me...
Anyway, you deeds flatter me. Good luck.

[ano]

I have extremely much work now and so I postponed hosting by 24h. Hope you'll forgive me this pause because it is most of you who are really guilty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ossa]

I'll be off for one and a half weeks - could reroute my turns to my ally oceania from monday on?

[ano]

Ossa said:
I'll be off for one and a half weeks - could reroute my turns to my ally oceania from monday on?


No problem once you provide an email

[klagrok]

sent you message bossman with my email address

[WraithLord]

Hi,

I'm not feeling well and will need to spend a few days in the hospital.
Can we please postpone hosting for three days?

TIA,
WL

[ano]

Hi,

I'm not feeling well and will need to spend a few days in the hospital.
Can we please postpone hosting for three days?

TIA,
WL
No problem. I think, you mean the next turn, not current one?

[WraithLord]

Already submitted current turn.

I have an update though. I was just released from the hospital :) and pending more analysis may or may not need to return in the next few days. Nothing major though - probably some type of CMV or other similar virus that has my medics concerned. Anyway, for now I'm back home so for my part we can go back on schedule.

Thank you for your understanding.

[ano]

I just wonder how could this happen. My golem was moving to castle and was scripted to cast Returning the first turn. But when he got attacked by teleporting Atlantis' KOtD he casted Personal Luck instead and was naturally killed by Magic Duel.
I strongly suppose that this is a heavy bug. Any comments?

p.s. yes, he had two gems to cast Returning.
p.p.s. I double checked the previous turn and have both files at my disposal.

[ano]

I started the discussion in the main thread. You may find it here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40195).
This seems to be a very weird bug and this loss is very, very heavy. Something around 100 gems total and a couple of very poverful unique artifacts for an unpredictable bug. Probably, this is not a matter of life and death but it nearly is taking on account the position of our team. As a game admin (and not even an interested person), I would suggest rehost (llamaserver now perfectly allows such thing) with some minor changes but it is up to the players to decide.
I'd like to ask every team to tell what they think about the situation and then we'll decide what to do. (I see the only way guarantee that the bug won't happen again when rehosting - if Meglobob changes orders for his KotD - but that's discussable)

[WraithLord]

For the sake of fairness I don't mind a rehost, so long as the original turn files are used.

ano, the way you describe it, it does sound like a bug or maybe not a bug but a lousy AI that sometimes overrides your scripted commands. You can try to run your turn with the full debug open and there track the AI reasoning for casting personal luck rather than returning. If this has happened b/c of AI rehost will not help change that.

I'm sorry for your loss -in the sense that its unpredicted thus unfair (I'm still opposing you after all).

[Kuritza]

I dont really care for I had no important battles or random events this turn.

P.S.
Could Llamabeast check an old 2h perhaps, just for the sake of it?

[ano]

For the sake of fairness I don't mind a rehost, so long as the original turn files are used.

ano, the way you describe it, it does sound like a bug or maybe not a bug but a lousy AI that sometimes overrides your scripted commands. You can try to run your turn with the full debug open and there track the AI reasoning for casting personal luck rather than returning.

I did it actually. Look at the thread I provided a link to. Log says that golem didn't have enough gems for the casting. Also, Reay commented there that he had had an absolutely identical situation in Fallacy game so I think that it is an unstable bug.
I also think that the files should be sent to Illwinter if the devs have time for it.

If this has happened b/c of AI rehost will not help change that.
As I mentioned above, the only option I see is if Meglobob changes orders for his KotD. I can't script golem to retreat because it is mindless and will die, and you're absolutely true, it may happen again if everyhting is left untouched.
I think if we decide rehosting, the only person who should change his orders is Meglobob. For others "Waiting for .2h file" will mean that they didn't change anything. At least, llamaserver says so.

[ano]

I dont really care for I had no important battles or random events this turn.

P.S.
Could Llamabeast check an old 2h perhaps, just for the sake of it?
I'll PM him and ask him to.

[llamabeast]

Well, I've checked the files used in hosting and the golem was indeed scripted to cast returning, and did indeed have two pearls when the battle with the KotD began.

As for the rollback I have no opinion. It certainly seems like an annoying bug.

[llamabeast]

Well, I've checked the files used in hosting and the golem was indeed scripted to cast returning, and did indeed have two pearls when the battle with the KotD began.

As for the rollback I have no opinion. It certainly seems like an annoying bug.

[llamabeast]

I suggest sending your files to Illwinter. Bugs are much much easier to find if you have an example of where they're occurring.

[WraithLord]

Until a decision whether or not to rehost is made I'm not going to start processing current turns. So I hope the decision will be reached soon.

[Baalz]

Yeah, sure, go for it. I don't mind a rehost - haven't even looked at the current turn yet and think I'll avoid doing so. :)

[ano]

Thanks, everyone, thanks, llamabeast.
I think that the majority of players already agreed to rehost so we'll have to wait for Meglobob to change his order. If anyone sees another solution, I'll gladly listen to it.

I'll send the files to Illwinter and post this to the bug thread in the evening (however, I don't really remember the email)

[Meglobob]

Can we run the exact same turn again, with everyone using the exact same orders, including me teleporting in and casting magic duel? Your golem obviously casting returning?

In the main thread you said in tests it always cast returning, so it may have been just a rare bug, will help Illwinter probably as well.

I do not want teleport--->magic duel tactic taken away from me.

[ano]

I don't mind just rerunning the turn but what if it happens again? Will you agree to second rehost in this particular situation?

[ano]

From my programming experience I strongly suspect that this bug is unstable in the meaning that it depends on some particular conditions. We don't understand what the conditions are but if they are not random, it will happen again. If you read my post in the main thread, the debug log said that golem ran out of gems while he definitely had enough.
Anyway, I agree that it will be very informative to just rerun the current turn.

[Meglobob]

Just run the turn again with all the same orders, hopefully it will not repeat.

[WraithLord]

Meglobob, has a point there though. True, the bug (if indeed that's what it is) is annoying but if we start rehosting every time it happens it will effectively disallow teloport+ magic dual to be used.

I suggest we limit the restarts to this once only. Everyone on this game got a fair warning that there may be an unstable bug related to casting of returning. Plan accordingly from now on.

Well, my opinion at least.

[Meglobob]

Lets run the turn again, exact same orders. Hopefully, returning will work, end of issue.

If it is still bugged then I will change my order for the S mage, all other orders will remain the same. This will allow the golem to move back to the castle safe and sound. However, at that point everyone knows the situation, so no more rehosts in the future should the same situation arise again. You will just after be more careful with your golem Ano.

I think this is fair to all the players in the game.

Btw I am keen for Illwinter to look at it and deciede if it is a bug or not. But we cannot hold up the game for that.

The debug is:-

comp_castspell: No eval Returning due to gems

Quote:
Not enough vis for Returning

It could mean your golem + 10PD or so thought my single S mage was no threat to them and so your golem choose to not waste 2s gems casting returning. Such is the way of AI scripting. But no one knows, other than the developers.

[ano]

Yes, I agree that is fair. Thanks for understanding. Also, no matter what the result is, I think the devs should take care of it because it is very weird indeed.
Rehosting will be soon

[ano]

Just rolled the turn back but llamaserver still writes "turn 48". Hopefully, it doesn't matter :).

[ano]

Same thing, just as I suspected with the only difference that now KotD died. So the bug is stable in the sense that it depends on some conditions.
I will roll back the turn again now. Meglobob, please change your order and hopefully we'll be done with it at last.

[Meglobob]

Ok, I will cancel the teleport--->magic duel. No more rehosts after this!

Its not a instant kill you know, magic duel the golem has a 50/50 chance of surviving. I think its WAD. Your golem is not casting Return because its confident that he and the 10 PD you have in there are enough to defeat a lone mage. Thats just how dom3 works.

[ano]

I already said that I don't mind this being the last rehost, moreover, I agree with all WraithLord said. As for the "golem is confident", I think (as a dom3 user, not an interested person) that ignoring orders in case like this is absolutely definitely not WAD and also as debug log says that golem didn't have enough gems, it's a bug for sure and thus not WAD.
Please, don't think that I'm begging for something or smth. like that. If someone else ran into such situation, my reaction would be absolutely the same.

Also, I'd like to note that I first gave all gear and gems to a scout who was located in the same province but then I thought that golem is even more safe than a scout and can be killed in no way and gave everything back. I was mistaken, as we can see... I really hate situations when death or life is not a matter of strategy or tactics but a matter of one or another weird unexpected bug. So, once again I want to state that my reaction doesn't depend on the flag of that golem's god.

[Baalz]

Sigh, I knew I shouldn't look at the turn, but I couldn't help it.

Host 1: Kill the bad banelord, much rejoicing
Host 2: Bad banelord gets away
Host 3: Bad banelord kills 4 of my mages then gets away


Please, no more hostings of this turn! The banelord will probably kick my dog and run off with my daughter!

[ano]

Baalz, I'm really sorry. I know that rehostings are evil but still it's the same matter of luck.

[Baalz]

Oh I'm not upset, just trying to be humorous.

[WraithLord]

Just to make sure. We are past the re-hosts and can safely play the last turns sent. right?

[WraithLord]

Looking at the sent turns I have an issue of my own similar in nature to ano's, though I'm not asking for a rehost or something, just to understand.

So one of my big armies is targeted by Agartha pretender for RoS. I've scripted a marshmaster to CM and some shamans as CS. Then on 2nd round my CM cast BE but the strange thing is, the CS don't get this bonus.

Then in another battle of my armies I had the same scripting with same results. CM casting BE do not give CS the bonus.

Make sense to anyone?

[Kuritza]

How about we end this madness and return to the FIRST .trn?
Now we are being bombarded by bad events we didnt have originally. Messy AI is a part of this game, I had my golems behave strange many times. When everyone exept you gets much worse turns after rehosting, there's something wrong with it.

[ano]

Just to make sure. We are past the re-hosts and can safely play the last turns sent. right?
Yes, sure. I would indicate if it wasn't so.
How about we end this madness and return to the FIRST .trn?
First. If it were you who ran into an unexpected severe bug and asked for a rehost I would be first to support you and it would have nothing to do with my own turn and my own situation. I would regret if something went wrong just as Baalz did, nothing more
Second. I don't know why you are so sure that my (our) results are better.
Third. You didn't mind rehosting and it was your decision.
Fourth. The discussion is over. It's just sad to read all this.

[ano]

Looking at the sent turns I have an issue of my own similar in nature to ano's, though I'm not asking for a rehost or something, just to understand.

So one of my big armies is targeted by Agartha pretender for RoS. I've scripted a marshmaster to CM and some shamans as CS. Then on 2nd round my CM cast BE but the strange thing is, the CS don't get this bonus.

Then in another battle of my armies I had the same scripting with same results. CM casting BE do not give CS the bonus.

Make sense to anyone?
I saw your CM casting Luck and Twist Fate and both affected all slaves. What exactly do you mean?
And also, both BE's you did cast there shouldn't give any bonus to slaves from what I know.

[ano]

Probably, BE meant Body Ethereal, right?
It will never affect slaves because it is AoE 1 while slaves are affected only by "self-buffs"

[WraithLord]

Much good did writing the buff thread do me :)

You got it right, I forgot BE was not self buff.

While we're at it, I find it strange the RoS kills heavily armored units such as Ctis city guards and also kills mages equipped with armor and helmet. I've even scripted poor marshmasters to cast mossbody all to no avail. So far the only protection from RoS I've found are BE and mistform and to a lesser extent luck and twist fate.

[Dimaz]

Actually the best protection against ROS is Arrowfend.

[ano]

I strongly suspect this is an illusion. Contact karnoza on this issue. He also believed that AF protects well and got hit heavily.

[Meglobob]

I have sent my turn in but llamaserver is having difficulty contacting the server. You may want to extend the deadline, just to make sure it does not host before receiving our turns.

[ano]

Yes, I postponed hosting by 15 hours to be sure that everybody has time to submit his turn. If the mail server problem isn't fixed until tomorrow morning, I'll postpone it further.

[Kuritza]

RoS damage seems to be way higher than stated by tooldtip indeed. Wonder if its WaI.

[WraithLord]

RoS is like the battlefield version of blade wind. Blade wind would never have killed high prot. + shields + helms troops and mages the way RoS has done on a few occasions my armies were attacked by Agartha. Again, the only prot. against RoS the way it seems to be operating now is, ethearility, mistform or extremely high prot (24 should suffice).

[Kuritza]

In test games, I've had RoS kill prot 30 mages. Well they were fatiqued, so maybe RoS critted... In MP, I also was on the receiving end of RoS while playing CTis once. I just didnt understand how did RoS kill all my marchguards in one casting. Perhaps 'stones' are AOE, so they hit same square several times?..

[WraithLord]

Well for a spell that can kill up to prot. 30 armies entirely I think its clear that it should be made more expensive and upped in research tree. Of course I accept it the way it currently is (not much choice there), but it doesn't mean I think it makes much sense.

[klagrok]

Hey bossman, of the last three turns, Ive only had one legit...appears no matter which order I send in my turns (and ossas) oceania comes back with CD validation error. Also, Im moving across the country in 3 days, so hopefully he will be back by then. Otherwise, might need someone to run both the nations :)

[WraithLord]

That's strange sending two nations turns from same computer works for me for sometime now.

ano, can you please postpone hosting by 24h?

[ano]

Strange indeed.
Klagrok, did you play both turns from the same PC?

Hosting postponed.

[klagrok]

Yes on the same computer :) . It has worked a few times, but last two turns went through, not corrupted like it has been a few times (i created another game slot for ossa), but still getting stale turn reports.

[ano]

Don't know why it is happening.
The only thing I can offer is that you send someone not engaged in this game your .2h file and then ask him to submit it.

[WraithLord]

I think its important to get to the bottom of this.
First thing I can say is that llamaserver emits a warning when two turns are submitted with same keys. Now I find it strange that it reports Ctis+Man and Van+R'lyeh and not your nations.

Maybe something more fundamental is wrong with your turns.

I guess when llamabeast be back from his vacation (today?) he may be able to help you resolve this.

[ano]

Llamaserver doesn't report it because one of the turns is staled due to key violation. The question is why this violation occurs.

[WraithLord]

Yes, but I had started a dedicated thread (can't find it now) for the question of possible key violations and it was confirmed from numerous sources that submitting multiple turns from same computer should not cause key violation. It makes sense for it allows one player to sub for a teammate in a team game, it allows to create setups in which a player may control more than one nation. I guess it also allows hot seat to work. Only issue is using same key from different computers (rights violation).

That is why I find the stales due to invalid key strange. It doesn't sit well with confirmed behavior as described above.

[ano]

I remember your thread and yes, this behaviour is strange. Maybe something in the submitted turns was different enough for the game to declare it key violation. I don't see any other explanation.