Manifestation is overpowerd.

[Argitoth]

Manifestation is overpowered for one reason and one reason only: Manifestations have a chance of attacking the commander regardless of how many units the commander is surrounded by. I just did a bunch of tests. Nothing so far gauranteed safety from Manifestation because the commander can be killed in one hit (I'm talking about mages of course). I think Manifestations should be set to "attack closest" to balance it out.

What do you others think?

[Omnirizon]

is manifestation the ritual that has a 50% chance of attacking a random commander in a province, otherwise it turns on the caster? it also is more likely to hit horror marked commanders.

[Argitoth]

It's 50% ***PER*** commander. If you cast manifestation on a province with 10 commanders, that means 10 50% checks. I've never had a problem with getting attacked by my own manifestation. Getting attacked by your own manifestation or not, it's still too deadly.

[PvK]

It's rather like other assassination methods that way, and one counter is stacking with non-vital targets (scouts, indy commanders, etc), no?

[Baalz]

Earth attack and disease demon are also fairly brutal depending on the circumstances. I don't think manifestation is any better.

[Argitoth]

Baalz said:
Earth attack and disease demon are also fairly brutal depending on the circumstances. I don't think manifestation is any better.



You're only saying that because you didn't do any tests. You're going on basic assumptions of Dominions. I can say that protecting against an earth attack is very easy and manifestation is totally different.

[sum1lost]

I've had my manifester attacked by his manifestation.

You want to know what garuntees safety against it? Same thing as against any other assasian spell- its actually the easiest to defend against, to be honest.

[Argitoth]

sum1lost: it's easist do defend against an assassination? that statement confuses me for more reasons than one. What are you trying to say?

[Endoperez]

"Out of the assassination spells, Manifestation is the easiest to defend against" I'd wager.

[Randvek]

Argitoth said:
You're only saying that because you didn't do any tests. You're going on basic assumptions of Dominions.



So... where are the results of your testing?

[Argitoth]

Endoperez said:
"Out of the assassination spells, Manifestation is the easiest to defend against" I'd wager.



Once again, another one who responds to this thread not having done any tests.


Randvek said:So... where are the results of your testing?



Do your own. At first you might think your strategy for defending against a manifestation is working. Keep testing it and the manifestation will eventually kill the mage bypassing any guards or summons.

Now if you want to go over the top with a powerful mage casting huge amounts of summons like living fire more than once or having twice as many guards etc, then I don't think the manifestation will be able to get to the commander. However, those mages aren't your every-day recruits.

[Argitoth]

Really, I'm getting tired of debating over these kinds of issues. I won't be playing Dominions for much longer, just finishing up a few games that will end soon.

Good riddance.

Edit: If people would just do some tests before making claims, these debates would go a lot better. You know? I spend a few hours testing things sometimes and then some of you want to come outa nowhere and say "WELL, I think you are wrong because I know everything about dominions." Seriously...

[Argitoth]

If someone said, "Well, I just did some tests and here's where you're wrong." that would be music to my ears.

...and yes I'm going to triple post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[Drake49]

Mostly Argitoth is just trying to prove something to himself, and he is suceeding.

Well, I HAVE done testing on Manifestation, and the results show that Manifestation is much more powerfull than the other two assasination spells.

Manifestation is pretty much a Thug, almost an SC because it has fear. Fortunately, it won't be fighting whole armies, so it might as well be an SC.

Infernal Disease will probably lose to a single Fiend of Darkness. Two Fiends might kill it in the first round, before the Disease Demon can act. Maybe not.

Earth Attack elemental will kill one Fiend... as it should. But five would almost, or would, knock it down to Size 5 in one round. It has to win very quickly against them, because they are doing huge damage. Unfortunately, Fiend's have a defence of 13, so the elemental is almost certainly toast. Against five Fiends of Darkness, which is a really strong bodyguard. Also, the elemental can't fly. Against creatures that can cast Gift from Heaven, you can use an anti-assasination+combat script. <Summon Earth Power><Gifts><Gifts>.. ect. If you position the mage correctly, you can point-blank the elemental from 1 to 3 squares away. And that is how I discovered that Gifts from Heaven CAN target the same square. One turn, elemental Size 6 and ready to SMASH. A casting of Gifts later, and the Earth Elemental is now Size 3, with the loss of Damage and increased action point cost of trampling that this entails. Shortly afterwards, it tends to die.

Can't use Gifts against Ashen Angel easily because it is either all the way across the screen, or it has FLOWN at you and cut you in half with it's sword. Exactly positioned bodyguards might make it work... or you miss and kill all guards and then route and die.

It was not very funny watching five Fiend's of Darkness attack an Ashen Angel for five rounds without even really hurting it. And Fiend's bypass the Angel's etheriality. Not good enough. The Ashen Angel wasn't even actually being HURT by the battle. Life for Life, or Dust to Dust is about the only way to kill it.

[calmon]

Owerpowered?

A spell that need 4 valueable gems to kill 1 (one) random commander with the drawback that it may just kill my own mage or kill a scout again and again?

Hell isn't there anything else you can do with your death gems and your casting 5D(!) Mage than using it for killing 1 unit?

Sure its usefull in some circumstances but not more.

[Endoperez]

Endoperez said:
"Out of the assassination spells, Manifestation is the easiest to defend against" I'd wager.



I think I got this wrong, and sum1lost actually meant "Manifestation is just as easy to defend against as any other assassination spell", meaning that having 20 scouts to 10 mages is enough to essentially protect them. And that's much cheaper than giving mages summoned flying bodyguards.


Argitoth - you might be right in that Manifestation is more powerful than other assassinations, but they are useful against teleporters and such, not against armies with decoy commanders, and that's what makes them situational.

[Hoplosternum]

calmon said:
Owerpowered?

A spell that need 4 valueable gems to kill 1 (one) random commander with the drawback that it may just kill my own mage or kill a scout again and again?

Hell isn't there anything else you can do with your death gems and your casting 5D(!) Mage than using it for killing 1 unit?

Sure its usefull in some circumstances but not more.



This is exactly what I found when I used it a few times. It is a fairly reliable spell in that it usually kills a commander (where as Earth attack did not always succeed). But it was expensive - 4 precious death gems rather than two a penny earth gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif - and you needed an otherwise useful high death caster to do it.

And if you enemy has much about him you usually kill a scout or indie commander instead of that vital mage. Making this spell not very cost effective.

[Argitoth]

Calmon: Did you read my first post?
Endoperez: You're not in the game I'm playing where I have 30 mages in one army and each mage is absolutely precious and has items. When you're generating 40 death gems a turn without any global enchantments, 4 death gems is not much. BTW, I am playing C'tis and have the greatest capability to cast Manifestation. However, it's a spell I would officially ban from the game because of how it can kill commanders bypassing any guards or summons. I'd ban it, but I'm about ready to stop that game in a few more turns.

I love Earth Attacks, bring them on! I love to see my enemy wasting earth gems (not really though, it's only 2 earth gems when you're making 25+ a turn). You can defend against earth attack very easily. Each of my 30+ mages are guarded by summons and large recruits and scripted to cast certain spells. All of them have a chance of dieing from a manifestation though.

Read my first post, my solution is simple, set manifestation to attack closest.

[Twan]

Manifestation is one of the rare things allowing to succeed to take a defended province/fort in endgame (imagining manifestation go through the domes).

At a stage of the game where battles are win by the defender if his good casters are alive and with gems, the few good spells able to kill key ennemy mages in magic phase are a necessity.

Actually I'd like to see it nerfed only if the whole endgame magic is redone. With the actual system I'd rather like to see a manifestation equivalent added in each path.

[calmon]

I read your first post

"Manifestation is overpowered for one reason and one reason only: Manifestations have a chance of attacking the commander regardless of how many units the commander is surrounded by."

And i wrote that its not.

Why should i argue with the detail that manifestation may attack the commander regardless of his guards if i find the commander killing spells by themself very situational and NOT overpowered?

[Zeldor]

I'd rather ban Argitoth from here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


But to be on topic - I would be happy with removing all assassinations from the game. It is really just annoyance with current game mechanics. That is random and really luck dependant. And it brings a huge load of frustration sometimes , when a commander with retreat order gets attacked that way or some communion master with strange script. And manifestation is one really ugly assasination spell. I have been attacked by it several times.

[Argitoth]

Zeldor said:
I'd rather ban Argitoth from here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Won't have to, I'm leaving soon, as I've already mentioned.

[Edi]

Argitoth, you have no place at all whining about other people not doing tests. You seem to be the only one who feels that it is overpowered and you claim to have tested this. So let us see the test results, because the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim.

[Amhazair]

For me, the most frequent use of assessination spells is to assessinate the one or two commanders of a small raiding party. That way you can stop the nuissance in its tracks with only a small investment. Manifestation is very risky in this situation (as in: not worth the risk) due to the chance of attacking the caster if it doesn't find a suitable target. Hence, Manifestation is probably the assessination spell I use the least.

This doesn't mean that the spell is useless, far from it. It certainly has its place in those moments you want to target the opposing army with a barrage of assessinations in anticipation of a decisive clash. It might very well be that you're right and that it's the most difficult assessination spell to defend against, but I feel that this is more than balanced with the fact you can only safely use it against rather large concentrations of commanders. In conclusion I'd say this spell is siutationally strong, and as such nicely balanced.

[Argitoth]

Edi said:
Argitoth, you have no place at all whining about other people not doing tests. You seem to be the only one who feels that it is overpowered and you claim to have tested this. So let us see the test results, because the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim.



Why would proof all of a sudden change your mind that Manifestation is overpowered or not? Bottom line is that it's virtually impossible to gaurantee protection against Manifestation. Those are my test results. Now it's your job to either say why it is not overpowered OR agree with me. Let me list a few tests I did from the top of my head

-Casting living fire once
-Bottle of water
-Just man's cross, eye of aiming, set to cast Swarm and Fire
-Two Catoblepes as guards
-A tartarian as a guard
-5 wyverns as guards
-5 C'tis chariots as guards
-5 wights as guards + set to cast Dust to Dust (will kill the wights if you're unlucky)
-5 wights as guards + Just Man's Cross (not as bad with wight guards)

Everything in this list works ***SOMETIMES*** It depends on if your guards/summons are lucky and if the manifestation doesn't bypass all guards/summons

[Sombre]

Seems like it has great balance to me. It can be countered with commander chaff, it's risky against small numbers of enemy commanders so you can't use it so much to root out raiding thugs etc, it has a high casting requirement considering it's a spell that needs to be spammed to be really painful,.. and so on. Yet it is very powerful in the right situation.

[Argitoth]

You know what, let me do one more test. If manifestation can be killed 9/10 times with a ring of warning + double the guards, I definitely won't think Manifestation is overpowered... gonna do the test now.

-8 Wyverns are guards: Manifestation bypasses guards 1st time
-8 Scropion beasts: Couldn't hit the Manifestation. Retreated due to fear 1st time.
-10 Wights: Manifestation bypassed guards 3rd time.

[capnq]

Argitoth said:it's virtually impossible to gaurantee...

IMO, this attitude right here is the source of much of your frustration with the game.

This isn't chess. NOTHING should be guaranteed. Every tactic has a counter, every counter has a counter, and none of them should work 100% of the time.

[Argitoth]

Bottle of water = immunity to earth attacks. There are things that do work 100% of the time.


Just did the test: worked 18 times in a row. Commander retreated due to water elemental getting hit too hard. The water elemental definitely would have won the battle.

[mathusalem]

so because there isn't a way to immune, it's overpowered ?

[Argitoth]

mathusalem said:
so because there isn't a way to immune, it's overpowered ?



EXACTLY. Anything in which it is impossible to be immune is overpowered.

Remember my water queen thread? My aegis shield thread? What other debates did I start? Those were all based on precicely this point.

[Edi]

Well, just to make it absolutely clear:

<font color="red">NO GUARANTEE OF IMMUNITY = WAD. Working as designed. Working PRECISELY as it should be</font>

There is no guarantee, there is not supposed to be one. You do not have a point!

[calmon]

Argitoth said:
EXACTLY. Anything in which it is impossible to be immune is overpowered.

Remember my water queen thread? My aegis shield thread? What other debates did I start? Those were all based on precicely this point.



You've a really simple view of some things.

Following your logic a spell which just win you the complete game is overpowered. Regardless it cost 1 gem or 1.000.000!

[Argitoth]

Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.

[Fal]

Argitoth said:
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.



about time...

[MaxWilson]

Argitoth said:
If someone said, "Well, I just did some tests and here's where you're wrong." that would be music to my ears.

...and yes I'm going to triple post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif



Okay, I tested this. Manifestation is indeed an awesome spell, and it had a high kill rate on the AI commanders. Frequently it bypassed the guards, and even when it did tangle with the guards (it always went for Jotun guards over Gygjas, and Summon Imps worked too) it still beat them and killed the mage. But guards often did work as blockers. Also, mages who could respond with skelly spam seemed to come out fine. So, I don't agree that there's no protection from Manifestation, although obviously if you push your luck and stick around a province where someone is spamming Manifestation you're going to get unlucky sooner or later.

-Max

[Gregstrom]

Argitoth said:
Anything in which it is impossible to be immune is overpowered.





Physical damage is overpowered?

[Jazzepi]

Argitoth said:
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.



Thank god.

Jazzepi

[Meglobob]

Argitoth said:Anything in which it is impossible to be immune is overpowered.



So, that would be virtually Dom3 the entire game then? Also perhaps 70% of all strategy games?

Don't you think being immune to be attacked would be overpowered? I mean what would be the point in anyone playing if that was the case?

In Dominions you cannot get too attached to any unit, you after be prepared to suffer casualties including losing your favourite SC, thug, mage, summon or whatever.

Finally, just in case anyone is in doubt manifestation is probably the least useful of the various assassination spells. Its in no way overpowered.

[MaxWilson]

Argitoth said:

mathusalem said:
so because there isn't a way to immune, it's overpowered ?



EXACTLY. Anything in which it is impossible to be immune is overpowered.

Remember my water queen thread? My aegis shield thread? What other debates did I start? Those were all based on precicely this point.



Since Manifestation has a non-zero chance of targeting the D5 mage casting the spell, and it's "impossible for him to be immune" to his own Ashen Angel, this logic implies that Manifestation is overly nerfed and useless because it could wipe out every D5 mage that casts it in a single turn and there's NO WAY TO PROTECT THEM. In fact, most of the game is "overpowered" because Dominions goes out of its way (by using open-ended dice) to ensure that nothing is ever a sure bet. A slinger can kill a Tartarian with one sling stone if he happens to roll 200 damage.

In probabilistic war games, as opposed to chess, good tactics mean tilting the probabilities in your favor and recovering when the dice go bad. Vs. Manifestation, this means either using decoys, using guards and/or skelly spam, scripting "Vortex of Returning" so the angel can't hit you, or decking your mage out as an SC so he can kill the Ashen Angel (mostly this happens when you're using the Tartarian chains, which summon occasional Ashen Angels to kill you).

-Max

[Tuidjy]

Manifestation is powerful. I like it this way. It's one of the very few things
that can help an attacker against a well-entrenched, well-scripted late game army.
In my last game it was used against me quite a bit. The first time it hit, it was
pretty bad - out of SCs and combat mages, it managed to nail my cook. An enchanter
with a summer sword, a wine bag and a cauldron... he did not stand a chance, and
there were some hungry, angry giants in result.

But after that, the multiple manifestations did not do much. They hit my SCs
(no contest), freshly summoned teleistic animates (trade of gems) or air mages
(mistform + orb of lightning wins every time) Now I completely agree that
assassination spells can ruin your day when they interfere with important casters'
duties before a major battle. But that is the whole point. Working as designed.

[Tichy]

This seems like its turning into one of those "It should all be math" vs. "there should be some element of luck" debates about strategy games in general. I think the devs and the long-time players have come down pretty firmly on the "element of luck" side for dominions.

[Sombre]

Argitoth said:
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.



Good.

[Baalz]

Please don't feed the trolls. Even the ones claiming they'll not be trolling again.

And, because this thread definitely needs it...

Monkey PD is like kryptonite, nobody can win with it regardless of anything else they have. Even ninjas couldn't win with monkey PD. Even robot ninjas. Even robot ninja tartarians who wished for power. And a pony. Monkey PD is that bad.

[Kuritza]

Baaltz... I'm sorry to say this, but you are trolling now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

One fool claimed that crappy PD is the only thing that makes monkeys lose. Now you like this 'monkey PD' line so much it makes you automatically disregard anything with 'monkey' and 'weak' in one sentence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Daynarr]

Markatas are overpowered. They really ought to be nerfed. In fact, I think I'll suggest this in beta forum right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Ironhawk]

Argitoth said:
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.



I for one, will be sad to see Argitoth go. While I disagreed with basically everything he said, who else will make these ranting threads when he is gone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ylvali]

Argitoh is overpowered, perhaps there should be a 50% chance each of his posts are sent to his own email instead.

Can someone fix this plz, Kthx.

[Xietor]

Manifestation is hardly overpowered. It is but one of the very lethal tools at the disposal of a player with high research, d mages, and d gems.

Ghost Riders, Leprosy, Black Death, Manifestation, Banelords, Wraithlords, Legion of Wights, Demi Lich, Tartarians, ghosts and even, properly used, the undead elephants, can be very effective in destroying an opponent.

Death magic is one of the two most powerful magic paths. But to single out 1 spell and call it overpowered? Impossible. Black Death can depopulate your capital by 50 percent for the small price of a few gems.

Leprosy can disease your entire army, and with penetration bonuses, your mages as well.

Banelords early in the game can be near unstoppable, and are a force the entire game.

Ghost riders can beat almost any pd, for the price of 5 d gems.

Manifestation is a good spell, but hardly overpowered. It is not even in the top 5 of the most powerful spells in its line of magic. If a player could only keep 5 d spells in a mp game, I am fairly certain these 5 would rank ahead of manifestation on most lists:

1. tartarians
2. Banelords
3. Lich
4. Ghost riders
5. Leprosy

And to my limited way of thinking, as powerful as the line of d magic is, it is still second to Astral Magic, where a host of spells are game defining.

I really could not name 1 spell that by itself was overpowered, unless it was a global. If I had to name one nonglobal, it likely would be mind hunt. And I do not think even that is overpowered, but I think it is too cheap to cast at 2 s gems.

[Baalz]

I also have to point out that blood is a late game powerhouse to, though much fewer people leverage it properly. The reason is because a good late game death gem income is 30 gems per turn (yeah you can get more, I'm just saying the ballpark you "usually" have to play with). A good late game blood income is 300 slaves per turn. Is a disease demon better that an ashen angel? Probably not. Are 10 disease demons better than one (potentially backfiring) casting of manifestation? Hoard from hell can be even more effective than ghost riders in certain situations and is available much sooner and more easily castable (assuming a good blood income)...and if you want something more analogous to ghost riders there is send horrors, and heck that one even comes in a much more accessible lesser form which still does a good job clearing PD.

As far as overpowered unresistable spells how about the only two truly unresistable spells: go to hell. Only marginally more resistable and castable by very cheap mages: leech. With an AOE 1, high, AN damage leech spam is truly fiendish against elite troops, and it cares neither for your antimagic nor your armies of lead.

I'd put late game blood - properly leveraged, on the same level as astral and death.

[MaxWilson]

Out of curiosity, what are the typical counters to Infernal Prison/Claws of Cocytus/Leech? The first thing that comes to mind for me is Rain of Stones to kill the blood slaves, but you just know you're going to miss some. The next thing that comes to mind is staying further away than 30 squares, but that has obvious limitations.

-Max

[ano]

Ylvali said:
Argitoh is overpowered, perhaps there should be a 50% chance each of his posts are sent to his own email instead.

Can someone fix this plz, Kthx.


Laughing out loud http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

The most useful counter to them is using lots of cheaper units...or I guess lots of expensive units if you're real rich. Skelispam works well against leech spam (keep your mages out of range). Using high hp decoys (elephants, non-GOR'ed tartarians, abominations, tarasques, etc.) works well against life for a life and go to hell. Killing blood slaves works to

[Drake49]

I really could not name 1 spell that by itself was overpowered, unless it was a global. If I had to name one nonglobal, it likely would be mind hunt. And I do not think even that is overpowered, but I think it is too cheap to cast at 2 s gems.



Mind Hunt isn't powerful. Your just having flash-backs to LA Ryleh doing it's insane thing. Giving a nation a recruitable everywhere mage who is S3 and has a good chance of being S4 is overpowered. And then make them ocean and give them easy access to clams. Yeah, that'll do it. It just happens that one of the forms ridicilious clam income takes with nations that have ridicilious astral is excessive mind hunt. That's more a result of player laziness than actual effectiveness.

I had forge.
I had 200 clam astral income per turn.
I 'only' had S2 mages, so the number of 'all powerful' mind hunts I did on what should be the last turn of the game was four. Four.

That's because it takes a cap, and a coin, and at least a spell focus to get that S2 mage up so he can spit out a Hunt. So yeah, it's 'only' two astral pearls. If your LA R'yleh. And Tartanians are 'only' 10 D. And the Demi-Lich, Skull Staff, Skull Face, and the Ring/Robe.

[ano]

I think that MA Arco, Pythium, Bandar and MA R'lyeh can spam Mind Hunt quite well too. Huge astral income is definitely not required for it.
Yes, it is a good spell but hardly overpowered.

[Sombre]

Leech is perhaps king of the 1X spells. Ghost grip and frozen heart are also excellent, but leech stands out because it's surrounded by mostly crappy or hard to use blood battle magic.

[chrispedersen]

How do you guys test things easily / conveniently.

I usually (always) beat SP before it gets out of early game.... so I really don't know about manifestation etc.

Easy way to set research levels etc?

[chrispedersen]

Rant On:

Frankly, I am rather disgusted with the attitude of most of the vets here.

When you go from attacking a players position, to attacking a player, I think *you're* out of line.

Its a game people.

And frankly, its posts like Args.. that challenge conventional wisdom that lets new things be discovered.

When players say things like .. 'thank god he's leaving' first I don't think it has any place in a thread; second moderators shouldn't tolerate that crap; third - how would you feel if that talk were about you.

And I'll close with the words of Donne or Locke or bacon or whoever. "Every man's death diminishes me, because I am involved with mankind, therefore, never seek to know for whom the bell tolls... it tolls for thee."

Dominions is not so big that it can afford small mindedness, nor so popular that it should drive away the unpopular.

Everyone of you, everyone of us.. has personality quirks just as onerous as Argitoths. And a little more tolerance really is the order of the day.

Rant Off.

[ryo_akashi]

Check out Debug mod from my linky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Tuidjy]

chrispedersen, I do not particularly want to see Argitoth gone, but I do think he
is annoying. He is by no means one of the players with the greatest experience,
but he keeps posting about "overpowered" tactics... and the ones that he
advances as such are no more powerful than a dozen of others that he has simply
not encountered yet. Add to this the fact that he cannot be convinced that he
is wrong, and it is not surprising people get upset. Oh, and he keeps saying
that he is leaving. I'm sorry, but everyone who is too good for us and our game
is not making any friends.

On the other hand, his abrasive posts do create useful discussions. I have
learned a few things myself as a result of his proclamations. I would rather
have him around than not, but I cannot blame others for flaming him.

What I think Argitoth needs is to play a lot more, and learn that there are
hundreds of 'overpowered' tactics, and they all sort of balance each other.
Well, all but MoD which is really overpowered... Now excuse me while I go
whine and ***** somewhere where no one hears me.

[Argitoth]

Tuidjy said:
but he keeps posting about "overpowered" tactics... and the ones that he advances as such are no more powerful than a dozen of others that he has simply not encountered yet.



So you're saying everytime I encounter an overpowered tactic, I post a thread about it? Ok. Say what you want, but I've been around since Dominions 1. *Shrug* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif However, can't I say the same for you in the opposite way? It is probably that you have not encountered the same overpowered tactics that is why you won't agree with anything I have to say.

chrispedersen: I like your post.

Lastly, the game where all my frustration was coming from is now officially over. One more game to go, PPP. I'll be dead from there soon.

[Ironhawk]

ChrisP: You are overgeneralizing. First that the response to Arg is solely from vets. Go back through this post and other thread's of his to see this for yourself.

Secondly, that the response to him is based on his ideas challenging convention. Nothing could be further from the truth - the response is due to Args attitude and presentation of his ideas, not the ideas themselves. If he would just settle down and present his ideas with some well laid out arguments backed by savefiles or something he would have been recieved well. Instead, he seems to persist in presenting an idea, getting up on a soapbox, and then ranting at anyone who tries to point out counter arguments or strats.

[Argitoth]

Ironhawk said:
ChrisP: You are overgeneralizing. First that the response to Arg is solely from vets. Go back through this post and other thread's of his to see this for yourself.



Oh no, not this. It's the "Well, you've always been this way and you should not be be respected" claim.

Please lock this thread! Better yet, if you want to ban me from the forum to appease the others, I don't mind it at all.

Edit: You think that I don't realize I am rude and have an attitude? I know this. I simply just didn't feel like being nice lately. Make of this statement what you will.

[Ironhawk]

And now you see the fruits of your labors, Arg.

[Xietor]

I do think one of the most positive aspects of this board, is the lack of posts directed negatively at another poster. Of course even families have arguments at times....

Most statements about a race, spell, or tactic are that one player's opinion. Though some statements are clearly intended to be factual. Like when i recently said lifeless units are not damaged by soul vortex. That was not opinion, but a statement of fact.

Contrast that with my observations about the death line of magic and manifestation. Those statements were clearly one player's opinion-mine. Reasonable minds can differ on on issues. So I do not get upset with anyone who disagrees with me.

Since I am a human, with human emotions and feelings, it is my hope that those who disagree with me do so in a civil manner.

But as an adult, and an older one at that, I know that there will always be instances where someone, for whatever reason, may not be civil. Then the ball shifts back to my court, and I most hope I have the maturity not to be drawn into "a pissing match"- especially on a forum where i come for relaxation and enjoyment.

[TheMenacer]

Argitoth said:
Oh no, not this. It's the "Well, you've always been this way and you should not be be respected" claim.

Please lock this thread! Better yet, if you want to ban me from the forum to appease the others, I don't mind it at all.

Edit: You think that I don't realize I am rude and have an attitude? I know this. I simply just didn't feel like being nice lately. Make of this statement what you will.




Didn't you say you were going to leave?

[Endoperez]

I was afraid Argitoth's style of claiming things would annoy people. He really stands out on this forum, for some reason. Part of it is in what he says, which is great (I've also learned a lot from these threads, e.g. about using Manifestation to break castle defences in late game), and part of it is how he says it.

Like chrispedersen, I don't like seeing these "so long" posts on this forum. I didn't say anything about it because I think I mentioned his attitude first about a month ago, and didn't want to sound like a hypocrite. Still, the forum's been more lively for a while.

[AdmiralZhao]

About Manifestation, I've found that Swarm works well as a cheap counter. It gives even N1 casters a decent chance to survive. Backed up with decent body guards, and perhaps a few more castings of Swarm if you are N2 or higher, and Manifestation is not that much of a threat.

About Argitoth, I too enjoy his threads. His monkey PD thread and other have created lots of new in-jokes over the last few months. It's good to have something besides the bog beast jokes. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with the bog beast jokes.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, what is it with the bog beast jokes anyway? I've been away for a year and when I come back everyone thinks bog beasts are hilarious as plush dolls.

-Max

[Argitoth]

Uhhhhhh, I had nothing to do with monkey PD!


Endoperez said:Like chrispedersen, I don't like seeing these "so long" posts on this forum.



Don't worry, my leaving has nothing to do with dominions game, the forum, the people on the forum, or anything like that. I just don't have time to be playing such a deep game. It requires hours of planning and even more hours to create all these thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[NTJedi]

Argitoth you should perhaps switch gears and try SP games instead of just dropping Dominions_3 completely. The AI has many weaknesses so for a challenge you'll have to use the mapedit commands to provide the AI a stronger start. You may also want to ban using certain spells against the AI since it lacks the knowledge for dealing with such spells like Wish and Ghost Riders.

Just a thought... if you're shelving the game then I suggest trying one of these games:

AOW:SM
Heroes_3:WOG
Stardocks fantasy TBS game due for release in 2009 (you'll need to wait)

[Meglobob]

Argitoth said:
Uhhhhhh, I had nothing to do with monkey PD!



Yep, you after give Argitoth credit here, the monkey PD was looneybob's or whatever his username was, Argitoth had nothing to do with that.

Mad/loopy/crazy bob came, created controversy, laughter and then went in about 2-3 months. It happens from time to time.

[The_Monkey_King111]

Yep, you after give Argitoth credit here, the monkey PD was looneybob's or whatever his username was, Argitoth had nothing to do with that.

Mad/loopy/crazy bob came, created controversy, laughter and then went in about 2-3 months. It happens from time to time.



Hey buddy, you forgot the part where I won the first MP game I ever played. As Patala. But don't worry! LA Ermor isn't reading the boards, so it will be a few turns before things are resolved! Bask in your theoritical superiority.

And before me was FrankTrollman.

And after me is Argitoth.

Oh, and Tujidy, you are just one Special guy.

[Tuidjy]

I know I have been insulted, but I have no idea how.