Tartarians in 3.17

[calmon]

Well i don't think 25% (not growing!) insanity helps much against the dominance of the tartarians in late game.

Isn't it possible to stop healing the undeads via chalice and gift of health? This would hurt them and its also thematic.
I can't believe the chalice was created to mainly heal undead afflictions!

I would also modify gift of reason. You could split the spell into different spells which effect only one (or 2) size category. So GoR a human (size 2) could cost 10-20 gems and a size 6 unit cost more like 30-60.

[llamabeast]

I think modifying the Chalice and GoH sounds like a very good idea. I would leave GoR though. For most purposes GoR is already expensive at 20 gems.

[Cipher]

Some of your main SC will be insane in critical battle, it might influence the whole war, in my opinion.

[fantasma]

What I really do not understand is why they are so cheap to summon? Even a crusher cost 15 gems. I know, the requirements are much lower, but still...

[Endoperez]

One quarter of your SCs being unavailable any given turn seemed very harsh for me. Your raiders can be caught without teleporting, and the casters who protect your armies with gem-expensive spells will force your whole army to stop when they go insane. If they stay behind with Flying Boots to fly back to the army, teleporters or Mind Hunters can kill them.

I haven't been on the receiving end a tartarian spam, but the insanity should make them much less useful.

[Twan]

I think the change is fine as it is, I'd happily trade 5 tartarians with 25% insanity for one reliable elemental royal.

Tartarians will only continue to be the most popular chassis in endgame because there is no other cost effective *non unique* choice. As soon some cost effective level 9 summons of *non unique* SCs *with magic if you gor them and more than 2 item slots* will be added I'm sure tartarians with insanities won't remain the most popular, even if they cost 10 gems and the others 2 or 3 times more.

The other option : making all SC summons *not* cost effective would be a very bad idea for the game, as hordes of SCs are needed to do anything once endgame spells are researched.

SCs don't dominate endgame, they are just the main counter to the battlefield magic dominating it.

[llamabeast]

Is their insanity the same as everyone else's insanity? Do they also ftaghn and stuff?

[Jazzepi]

Twan said:
I think the change is fine as it is, I'd happily trade 5 tartarians with 25% insanity for one reliable elemental royal.

Tartarians will only continue to be the most popular chassis in endgame because there is no other cost effective *non unique* choice. As soon some cost effective level 9 summons of *non unique* SCs *with magic if you gor them and more than 2 item slots* will be added I'm sure tartarians with insanities won't remain the most popular, even if they cost 10 gems and the others 2 or 3 times more.

The other option : making all SC summons *not* cost effective would be a very bad idea for the game, as hordes of SCs are needed to do anything once endgame spells are researched.

SCs don't dominate endgame, they are just the main counter to the battlefield magic dominating it.



IMHO they're also extremely inexpensive. Tarts only cost 25 nature gems and 10 death gems. An air queen costs, what, 50 air gems?

Jazzepi

[thejeff]

And also come insane and afflicted, so unless you get the Chalice or GoH, which will be expensive, you need to get them in bulk to get usable ones.

[Edi]

llamabeast said:
Is their insanity the same as everyone else's insanity? Do they also ftaghn and stuff?


Different from R'lyeh insanity wrt what they may or may not do.

[BigDisAwesome]

Does R'yleh insanity stack with it though? As in they start at insane 25, but R'yleh's dominion raises it from there?

[Edi]

Not as far as I know. R'lyeh insanity is a different thing with a different order list, so I expect they would be separate. Somebody should test that, because it did not, to my knowledge anyway, come up in the beta phase. Could be interesting if it does increase Shattered Soul as well.

[Kristoffer O]

It's about as ftaghn, but they preach LA ermor dominion using their death rating instead.

Pillage is a pillage and demolish temple is also what it says.

[WraithLord]

I think in one month or so we'll have a much better idea of how the insanity changes helps alleviate the endgame tartarian spam. Speculating is good but can only get that far.

I find it cool that the devs are so attentive to the community.

[llamabeast]

Oh nice, so they mess up your own territory! That's cool.

[sum1lost]

When they pillage, do you get the gold, or is it maybe contributed to PETT or something?

[llamabeast]

What's PETT?

[sansanjuan]

Dressed to Party
and raise some hell
Instead she pillaged my village
my income fell

Emotional baggage
from beyond the grave
Her shattered soul
I couldn't enslave

Next month she was sorry
"I was out of my mind!"
I forgave her rampage
Love is blind

Beware fellow gamers
of the expensive fare
When checking "Tartarians OK"
on the eHarmony Questionnaire

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

-SSJ

[sum1lost]

llamabeast said:
What's PETT?


People for Ethical Treatment of Tartarians.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Foodstamp]

sansanjuan said:
Dressed to Party
and raise some hell
Instead she pillaged my village
my income fell

Emotional baggage
from beyond the grave
Her shattered soul
I couldn't enslave

Next month she was sorry
"I was out of my mind!"
I forgave her rampage
Love is blind

Beware fellow gamers
of the expensive fare
When checking "Tartarians OK"
on the eHarmony Questionnaire

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

-SSJ



This is absolute genius. Thumbs up!

[Tyrant]

Does it matter if a non-commander unit is insane?

[Jazzepi]

Tyrant said:
Does it matter if a non-commander unit is insane?



Nope, zero effect. Just don't GOR them unless you want an insane commander.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Doesn't help me with the dozen I have alraeady GOR'd though. guess I need to designate a province as the Asylum, and send them all there until needed.

[Jazzepi]

Rename province : Arkham

Jazzepi

[MaxWilson]

Too bad you can't rename provinces in play.

-Max

[Lingchih]

It's a sad day. All my Tartarians have shattered souls now, although hopefully the will carry out their previous orders. Then, it's off to Arkham Asylum for them.

[Saxon]

Good point. This will encourage people to push Tarts into the field quickly. You don’t want to keep them in your back yard, so get them out into your enemies. “Oh, you pillaged the province you just captured? Oh well.” A more aggressive end game perhaps.

However, it will weaken them overall, as people who keep some in labs to cover the magic paths they did not have will now be running a higher risk. It will focus them as SC, rather than SC with possibilities in magic. Combine that with the direct reduction in usefulness of 25%, the losses due to insane orders that damage, the uncertainty cost of when it will strike and their overall value is going to decline a fair bit.

Let us see how it actually plays out.

[Zeldor]

They won't change your order in the coming turn. But later yeah. Too bad you cannot start a new temple construction when you see your tartarian with 'destroy temple' order.

Many of that things are not extremely bad when on enemy territory. Still best SCs for the money. A bit less useful in defence, but that's not their main role.

[Saxon]

I think all of them get shattered souls, but it is the ones that the box turns red that will not take orders. Naturally, on my first turn, the pair I am most interested in moving are the ones that went all red…

[MaxWilson]

Does pillaging even matter in the end game? Sure it's entertaining, but isn't gem economy more important than gold at that point?

[Endoperez]

Pillaging causes lots of unrest. You don't want keep the Tartarian-summoner in an uncastled province where he and his boosters would be vulnerable, which means that province is also a place for recruitment, and unrest over 100 will prevent that.
It isn't a huge deal, of course, unless you have dozens of Tartarians in your capital and you really want those capital-only Arch Theurgs or something.

[Jazzepi]

MaxWilson said:
Does pillaging even matter in the end game? Sure it's entertaining, but isn't gem economy more important than gold at that point?



Not really, especially not by a single unit with zero patrol bonus. The problem is that you'd be pillaging instead of moving, or teleporting, etc. etc.

Jazzepi

[sansanjuan]

One of my SS Tarts shows "God Call". Wonder who he's calling? I'd hate to meet the God of the Tartarians. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
-SSJ

[JimMorrison]

"We are sorry, Jim Morrison can not be reached at this time, if you leave your name and number....."

[Xietor]

Lingchih i feel no sympathy.

I gave you advance warning before the patch to move your tartarians into someone else's lands(not mine of course).

[VedalkenBear]

I'll note that it seems that the Gath national Death summons also have Shattered Soul; the one I had was at 5.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, Ashdod also has a Death Feast or something that summons a ghostly Melqart who has Shattered Soul(15). I like the fact that Shattered Soul generalizes to all escapees from Tartarus. My favorite command so far: "All will be ashes."

-Max

[Saxon]

I think the "destroy lab" is the most dangerous.

SSJ,

In our game, when your Tart called god, my pretender's phone rang. This should be telling you something...

[Lingchih]

Xietor said:
Lingchih i feel no sympathy.

I gave you advance warning before the patch to move your tartarians into someone else's lands(not mine of course).





Well, most of them were moving, except I left one in the cap because he was doing something important. Well, he got that done, and guess what he is doing now. Pillaging my capitol, of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

in general i think the safest place for my tartarians are in my enemies lands! I wonder if they are laying siege to an enemy castle and get the "destroy temple " command whether they can take out an enemy temple?

[Lingchih]

The Shattered Souls seems to me to be a pretty good nerf to the Tartarians. I think it works well. It makes them dangerous to keep around in the home provinces, but still keeps their attacking power pretty much intact. Well done Illwinter.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

I have one with order like that so I will know soon.

[Lingchih]

Hmm. One of my Tartarians is "Opening Tomb". Wonder what that will do. Probably nothing.

[Kristoffer O]

It's the same as Ftaghn, but it is a LA ermor preach (with death added to priest lvl) instead.

[Renojustin]

Ok, so what's Ftaghn? Heretic preaching?

[NTJedi]

Lingchih said:
Hmm. One of my Tartarians is "Opening Tomb". Wonder what that will do. Probably nothing.



Would have been interesting if it generated a battle against a few STRONG undead.

[Zeldor]

OR if you got a new tartarian free http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


I have checked and tartarian that gets 'destroy temple' order when sieging does not destroy enemy temple. Another one destroyed one at my capitol though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Renojustin said:
Ok, so what's Ftaghn? Heretic preaching?



Ftaghn is the R'lyeh dreamland mad preaching.

[Xietor]

it would be sort of thematic to have a similar command to "open tomb" where he releases plague on the population and disease on the troops.

[Cipher]

I wonder that if a tartarian goes insane, and the enemy attack his province, will he defense or not? I think it make more sense if he keep doing his insane things (open tomb) and do not defense at all.

[sansanjuan]

Lingchih said:
Hmm. One of my Tartarians is "Opening Tomb". Wonder what that will do. Probably nothing.



I have Shattered Soul Tart that's action is "Mutters". I listened in and he muttering something like
"BOOTS...@!&@^% http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif!
I'm making #@!@*^ BOOTS!
I'm a #)!@$% TITAN AND I'M MAKING #%$^! BOOTS !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif!"

-SSJ

PS I'm not kidding on the Mutters SS action.. pretty funny.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif