Legions of Steel

[Kaljamaha]

I have real trouble using this spell. Actually, to be totally accurate, I cannot get my mages to properly use this spell at all. I searched around the forum, and found a couple of posts describing targeting weirdness with this spell. I however, have a different problem. My mages refuse to cast it when it would result in something useful happening.

Here's the setup. I'm playing Marverni, and I research Const 3 to get this spell (no other research done). My armies' battle deployment is as follows:

20 - 30 Carnute nobles, centerfield, as forward as possible
1 Druid (E3+) some ways behind the Carnutes
1 random commander to the side of the Druid

The Carnutes are set to Hold and Attack, the Druid has LoS x3, then some other spells. I figured this setup would guarantee that the Carnutes get their armor boosted.

As if! The bozo Druid first casts the spell on the lone commander (fine... whatever), the on himself (idiot!), and finally, when his only option left is to cast it on actual troops, he defaults. To Sermon of Courage, or something else. He absolutely refuses to cast the spell on a the Carnutes. Slingers (from, say, provicial def), yes, but some god seems to forbid him actually casting it on proper line infantry. I was able to get the spell cast on the troops by shuffling the commanders around, but it was rather unreliable. The most success I had was when I placed the Druid in the middle of the infantry, but in that position he is in real danger of dying of some random arrow or whatnot.

So, does anyone have any tips on how to use this spell, or is it totally bollocksed?

K.

[Humakty]

When I badly want some buffs on my troops, I do the same as you do, putting those MFBs in the middle of the unit to be boosted. I've never found any other way.

Ah, I have in fact :
one Pan + one unit of 40 centaurs : he gets them buffed almost every time. But don't put any other units or commanders, it'll screw up things.

I think the buffs go primarily on commanders to avoid troops being buffed rather than thugs or SC, which would really be *BEEP*.

[llamabeast]

Never had this problem. Curious.

[fantasma]

you are sure the troops are in range?

[Sombre]

I have real problems with a number of buff spells. The only way to get them cast on the right guys is often to place your mage so the ONLY people in range are the unit you want to cast on. Even then the mage sometimes casts on himself.

Getting Death Frenzy to work properly with the Skaven for example is a total nightmare. When I reduced the range of the spell the mage often clipped himself with it. When I increased it he cast it miles away from where I wanted it, usually on another bunch of mages.

Be glad at least that LoS on the wrong guys doesn't cause them harm.

[NTJedi]

Sombre said:
I have real problems with a number of buff spells. The only way to get them cast on the right guys is often to place your mage so the ONLY people in range are the unit you want to cast on. Even then the mage sometimes casts on himself.





This is so true, as it's been annoying for me as well. The mage will cast the spell on a group of archers instead of on the group of knights!

Suggested Fix: The spell Legions of Steel should target a group of nearby units with the highest protection first. Also archers should ALWAYS be targeted last.

[Dedas]

I brought up that spell as well. It is obviously broken as it doesn't target highest protection units.

[MaxWilson]

I have seen the behavior you describe (mage targetting lone commander instead of group of infantry) in recent patches as well. I think it started at the point when the game was patched so that LoS would not be cast multiple times on the same group of units. I have not played around much with tactics--up to this point I've just done as you have and put the mage in the middle--but I think I'd try mixing in some low-prot units in the same squad as the high-prot ones you want buffed.

-Max

[Edi]

Legions of Steel has a shortlist entry in the spells section. Must be third or fourth time it's up there. It's seriously broken, seems to have some kind of cutoff value that if you have protection better than X, it won't be cast. Now if someone were to figure out X first...

[PvK]

Hmm, it was working fine for me as MA Ulm...

[Dedas]

Yes, it was working fine but broke along the way.

[Endoperez]

NTJedi said:
This is so true, as it's been annoying for me as well. The mage will cast the spell on a group of archers instead of on the group of knights!

Suggested Fix: The spell Legions of Steel should target a group of nearby units with the highest protection first. Also archers should ALWAYS be targeted last.



No, that doesn't work. There are many melee units with armor and javelins you might want to protect, LA Man's best infantry has crossbows, etc etc. Targetting high-prot units first might work, targeting archers last wouldn't.

[Loren]

Endoperez said:

NTJedi said:
This is so true, as it's been annoying for me as well. The mage will cast the spell on a group of archers instead of on the group of knights!

Suggested Fix: The spell Legions of Steel should target a group of nearby units with the highest protection first. Also archers should ALWAYS be targeted last.



No, that doesn't work. There are many melee units with armor and javelins you might want to protect, LA Man's best infantry has crossbows, etc etc. Targetting high-prot units first might work, targeting archers last wouldn't.



How about targeting the unit with the best melee damage first?

[Endoperez]

Loren said:
How about targeting the unit with the best melee damage first?



Light cavalry often has light lances and bows. Longbowmen have +1 str and +2 weapon damage (shortsword) to normal spearmen. Shinuyama's O-bakemono have Furs and str+dam 26; Dai Bakemono have good armor and str+dam 24. Oracles of the Ancients and Troll Kings might decide to cast it on themselves because they are strong.

[NTJedi]

Endoperez said:

No, that doesn't work. There are many melee units with armor and javelins you might want to protect, LA Man's best infantry has crossbows, etc etc. Targetting high-prot units first might work, targeting archers last wouldn't.



Well I there might be a few scenarios where you'd want to target the fellas with crossbows and javelins first.
Unfortunatley the way the spell is working now targets the archers before the group of knights. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif In most scenarios if the enemy has reached your archers then you're on the last line of defense or offense.

Suggested Fix: The spell Legions of Steel should target a group of nearby units with the highest protection first.

[Endoperez]

What about giving mages a bonus to targeting whatever's directly in front of them (i.e. between the mage and the where the enemy is supposed to start from). If there's a squad of infantry in front and squad of archers to the side, the infantry would be more likely to be boosted. It could also be used to make mages prefer to boost SCs above normal units by putting the SC in front of the mage.


The boost should have a rather short range, because otherwise mages would prefer to cast AoE damage spells to the mixed melee in the front and not the group of knights told to Attack Rear.
The boost should not be bigger right in front of the mage. Otherwise the mage would start buffing himself and his bodyguards.

[Dedas]

If you test legions of steel in version 1.00 of the game, it works just fine. Shouldn't be a problem to simply aim to have that code working again.

[Herode]

BTW, I used LoS recently with MA Agartha and the result is not satisfying, as it has been said here.

- Not only the mage does not target proper units but he carefully calls the spell on an area where he is the only target available and this was not so easy to compute http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
- but his own protection didn't gain even a single point of bonus after the buff.

Arf http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif